Comments by "chris sonofpear1" (@chrissonofpear1384) on "Can Scientists and Religious Leaders See Eye to Eye? | Middle Ground" video.

  1.  @congaudeant  Actually, I hear she is a post Reconstructionist Jew, who's ideas tend to be a lot more agnostic and culturally focused, than strictly religious traditional?
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  2.  @emperorsponge9208  Sorry, I am talking about PREDESTINING people here, as that is what Romans 8:29 and 2 Timothy 1:9, SEEMS, to err, imply. As do the following. He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. Ephesians 1:4-5 God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation. Jude 4
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  3.  @MShreefUK  So was this before or after Occasionalism became a major aspect, of it?
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  4. Seems any philosophy can wander off the original plan. Even JESUS's, at times.
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  5. A Rabbi is a Jewish theological teacher, who's main work is interpreting the scripture/Torah, and finding out (to their mind) how the verses fit together, and what to do when they sometimes seem contradictory. Or which intent takes priority.
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  6. I get very confused by religion in general. No offence, you say THEY are confused, but I see Christians argue with EACH other on youtube all the time, from various denominations. And they never had someone try to imprison or exterminate ALL of them...
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  7.  @emperorsponge9208  Aha. So, do they ever admit Hosea 9:12-16 exists, widely - or Romans 8:29, or 2 Timothy 1:9...?
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  8. It contradicts basic compassion, common sense and morality, much times, also - that book.
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  9. Of course we heard, you twerp. You need to listen to the feedback, too. And why were medieval Jews given more death, than life, in your past religion, @Emz E. ?
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  10. Thanks. Ps, any thoughts on Corinthians 2:14 Tyler?
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  11. Well, it has SOME concessions to science, but often only approximations...
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  12. Partially. Is a good start, at least.
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  13. By WHO? Who is explaining them? Will Samuel 15, Numbers 11, 15 and 31, and Deuteronomy 20 ALSO be explained in such detail? And why demons were allowed to REACH Earth?
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  14. So why are Muslims still fighting each other so much? And why can't Allah stop it? Also, what IS going on in Brunei, right now...
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  15. What if more than one, though....
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  16. I agree. But meditation is tricky when we don't know the 'target', or even if it's something we can 'see as' a target. Whether by one-pointedness, passive observing, or breath control.
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  17. Or it was a ritual to connect to spirit self, gotten distorted, some say...
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  18. Then, ah, can she do it WITHOUT gaps, and much, MORE context, next time...? Romans 13:1, Matthew 7:18, and 5:18, and Luke 13:27 included... @Godisgood ? And why Satan kept any powers, too...
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  19. What if I felt Deuteronomy 20:10 wasn't morally correct?
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  20. So does this go back to the definition of Brokenness in the Paulline sense? And when the verse 'his blood be upon us and our children' was made, was it INTENDED that some Christians would be truthful Christians going about persecuted Jews? Or later, in the Spanish Inquisition, trying to FORCE them to convert? Because many there GENUINELY seemed to believe that torture was the lesser evil to letting them go to hell...
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  21. And, perhaps, that it was made as a narrow path for one narrow interpretation of one denomination over others?
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  22. Blood clot becomes a foetus? Well.... it's NEARLY in the right, general, ballpark...
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  23. There are... a lot. And between other denominations too, as I recall?
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  24. Although Einstein was a deist, at that, @Jose Sibi . Not quite the typical case.
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  25. Yes, and quoting Corinthians 21:14 at each other likely won't solve it...
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  26. Somme scientists do, but they are often on the edges of respected research. Their results are often seen as a bit flimsy.
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  27. Glad to clear that up. I am a bit confused about the World to Come and how it's defined among Jews. Plus the repairing of nature, whether Adam and Eve could ever said to be 'cursed' and all the other confusing loose ends.
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  28.  @TedEhioghae  Well - if none of you actually fulfil, John 14:12-13, though, or Matthew 17:20, however, Ted - then really, it is, generally, ALL the same, to most of us. And boy, did you lot, and your myriad sects, and churches, used to war with each other - quite a bit! Maybe try multiplying loaves, and fishes, more, now? Africans, could actually use, that. Possibly.
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  29. Yes, but which one though, or how many, @Mr. Goodwoods ?
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  30. That is a potential major weakness, yes. Still, they did cast doubt on 'design' for some things. Hence, assumption 'if wrong on one, may be wrong on other' for many cases.
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  31. Nice to get a bit more background. Still need a bit more on how Eternity is viewed here, and whether it got distorted in accounts of Sheol and hell later.
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  32. Fair enough. I've never fully ruled it out. But the heaven and system I'm told of generally seems chaotic to me, with a very blurred definition of free will (and curses, on top of that)
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  33. But then disloyal angels can 1. reach Earth 2. DISGUISE themselves 3. create 'counterfeit religions'? 4. curses on language may scatter people, and make some tribes more vulnerable to deceit than others? 5. strong delusion may be sent by one or more parties? 6. we never found out how heaven became unstable?
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  34. But there is so much that is not fully EXPLAINED. Including how free will WORKS in those environments. Who has more free will? The disguised angels, or the humans? Including the ones that did not exist when two people had the, er, 'test'?
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  35. I'd like to know the game was not rigged. And can you define 'strong delusion' and the 'natural man' please? Corinthians 2:14 may help?
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  36. And the price had to be paid in blood WHY though? And it did not work for Jews, also, often? And for why demons were allowed onto Earth initially?
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  37. And what some people find 'detestable', or want far away from them...
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  38. In what context are they answered?
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  39. The one about the 'natural man,' Tyler...
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  40. And what is mean't by 'natural man'? Can we TRUST nature, or not? And if heaven was once flawed as well...
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  41. And what of other denominations? Which get it most right?
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  42. And I ask again - why was Satan owed the access that compromised human nature at all? Via one man., apparently unaware of larger stakes?
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  43. If it is not passed down to layman terms,. did it really WORK though, Nick? And what if KIDS asked about it?
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  44. Occasionalism, as a philosophy, often ruined science, within Islam.
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  45. And infantic-ide, at times, yes, @Aditya K (or at least, some do)
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  46. Only in some fields. And have you heard of Occasionalism within Islam? It can be quite dogmatic, and not that flexible for scientific concerns.
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  47. There's room for improvement. I tend to care more about rules and dogmas that can lead to siege mentalities, miscommunication or war...
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  48. Somewhat more blurred now, though. And that may make Corinthians 2:14 fair game.
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  49. So... why did any angels doubt this? And what did any think they lacked? Also, why would any think Satan could win?
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  50. Fair enough, but I certainly do NOT believe the bible has covered all topics, and it has Gaps. Some quite curious ones, for an extended time - and potentially harmful. Also, when did the sun first appear, and when was death first in the animal kingdom?
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  51. So how did they come to be, as a group?
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  52. They probably could have got someone else, yes.
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  53. It OMITS stuff, though?
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  54. Yes, and who hopes for inherited curses, or for potentially narrow paths, or families to be split asunder, either.
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  55. Seems Jehovah was happy to take credit for plagues and wars and feeding rotten meat to complainers on the exodus (Numbers 11:19) but when it comes to more recent stuff, hmm, not so much...
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  56. I request you to fill in some gaps?
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  57. Some do, some less literally.
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  58. Seems in line with some Buddhist style views, then?
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  59. Some of it is at least half way logical. But soon it becomes part of string of pearls of less and less logical concepts... and tautologies.
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  60. If it was less focused on cultural concepts, and say, redefining Sumerian religious mythical concepts and hierarchies, then Genesis might have had more flexibility further on...
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  61. Gosh, wouldn't have something to do with blood libels and the Inquisition, would it? Still waiting to hear more of their view of the 'world to come' and how it fits with them not always having an idea of an afterlife...
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  62. Everyone's been killed by SOMEONE. Wars and persecutions have happened to all sorts of groups. I just wonder why they never managed to escape the issue in their own culture. Nor the Inquisition. God seems to have a very tight policy on non-interference now? Despite devastating much of Egypt in order to reveal his glory?
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  63. Sometimes by each other, though? Totalist ideologies often lead to vaguely authoritarian views - or at best, siege mentalities. Communists targeted people who jeopardised the 'new human model' they were trying to create, for instance...
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  64.  @naria2224  Sadly so, in some cases, given fervid events in Washington now?
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  65. Sometimes perhaps, as more of a principle than a Being?
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  66. Principle of creation and wholeness, I think, in this context? Continuous creation, perhaps?
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  67. The atmosphere and ocean did used to be poisonous, I suppose. And hundreds of thousands of species went extinct. Coming at it from another angel, somehow, fallen saboteur angels were supposedly allow access to Earth?
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  68.  @IssyFishyy  It failed. It had centuries to get it 'right', when God had control over a whole continent (this one) and wasted much of that time in sectarian debates, and tolerating slave trading.
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  69. I suppose is also about day to day relevancy?
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  70. Is apparently a Reconstructionist Jew, also, with less conventional Rabbinic views.
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  71. How do we KNOW, Slxw? And why did it ever become IMPERFECT? Or at least, divided?
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  72. It does seem odd, yes.
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  73. She was a post Reconstructionist Jew., as I recall...
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  74.  @zotharr  Yes, in theory, the process just works, and does not require believing in it. Though I suppose it would, if to be sure, that no very long term errors have been enshrined? Ala heresy claims?
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  75.  @brandynkoogler4500  Well, I think we can live and learn, frankly, and it's a good thing. I hope too, that you learn, about the fate of Achan's poor kids, in Joshua 7 (if it's not the edited, version)
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  76. I would certainly try to - bit hard if I CANNOT easily find out why Satan got to keep any powers, or have access to this world, and why any other angels thought he could win a revolt? Plus, of what Eve did or did not know, of the stakes beyond to her and Adam, alone?
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  77. And have we HAD any real answers? Or just very FREQUENT claims that the 'natural man' will not understand the ways of God ANYWAY, thus relieving many theists from even attempting to try? And this is the same writer who uses the word 'natural' in a VERY loose way? Kind of... hackishly?
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  78. Sure, when Islam reunites itself peacefully?
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  79. Post reform / exile ones vary.
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  80. Meaning she takes the Torah in a more metaphorical sense. For instance, Reconstructional Jews believe that anyone can become the Messiah.
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  81. Or rather, how are we to know which is Christian, or not?
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  82. How is that proof of THAT ONE type of God, and not just generic of any god? And would God ever make himself unhappy?
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  83. How do we know there was no earlier life? or prior universe? Also, the term 'nothing' is still being defined, in this context.
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  84. Some do, some do not.
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  85. That is a next potential frontier, yes. With right team and motives behind it.
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  86. It is also, in fact, an epistemological problem.
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  87. God has ended up seeming less plausible, of late, any way. But I find trying to cover bases by saying simultaneously that nature BOTH reveals God and his nature, AND is Fallen and unreliable (and a source of 'earthy, demonic wisdom') to be just a bit too... pat?
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  88. I wouldn't know if we could even tell what is 'random'. Although how suicidally prideful angels can exist randomly is a bit strange.
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  89. Sounds decent to me. Of course, I will NEVER believe Numbers 31:17 is any kind of HEAVENLY state of mind...
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  90. It's had it's flawed moments and dogmas, but yes, overall, it does hold itself to a very high and laudable standard. Occasional elitism does creep in, but there are corrective texts.
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  91. Hmm.... in beginning, the Elohim (plural) created the Earth and the firmament.... Mm, may work.
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  92. And not one who had an unstable heaven, maybe? May not always be genuine article. Also, Buddhists often do not term the infinite as God, either.
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  93. I suppose it is at least a bit more flexible on such.
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  94. I would say it's possible, though some would not. Quantum fluctuations are weird... that said, some sort of 'prior realm' may have existed.
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  95. Look up M-theory, Brane cosmology, quantum foam, and other leading contenders, most at least, broadly compatible, on similar aspects of the model, @Rainbow Knight Gaming . I'm still hard at work, looking into ALL of it, too. And no, it does not - yet - HAVE to fully, rule out, any possible god.
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  96. From who, or what, are they saved, @slamee100 - and why was heaven ever flawed, why was Satan OWED ANYTHING, or to keep any powers, and how can Adam 'chooooseee' for people NOT yet born, with NO idea of good, evil, death, that Satan existed, or of stakes, to more than two people? Also, are any PREDESTINATED from before the Age, or from birth, ala Jude 1:4, and 2 Timothy 1:9, and Romans 8:29...? Please give it a BIT more thought, if you would, slamee100 . Also, what is more important: A God showing up to the trial of ONE Sabbath breaker, in Numbers 15, to give testimony, or one who RESOLVES or averts, schisms, wars, Pogroms, Inquisitions, torture, and pro slavery verse interpretations, if I may inquire.... Take as long as you need, to answer at least some of these, or ask whichever Spirit you need, for aid...
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  97. But which God? And which view of human nature? Before we even get into ANGELIC nature, and the origins of jeopardy, some claim?
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  98. I think that is potentially so. Hard to prove (beyond often wild looking inconsistencies in above)
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  99. What of spontaneous remissions, though? Including from comas?
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  100. Presumably focusing on hormones, cortisol, and so forth?
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  101. Have you read Joshua 7, yet, @Styles283 ?
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  102. Cultural expert, apparently.
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  103. And what would this reveal? And can they fill in omissions?
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  104. They do often constrain rationality, and require dominoes of assumptions...
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  105. Science does need to be open to what causes things, but it also cannot have a fixed hypothesis for such. At least not for a watchmaker continually altering things?
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  106. I suppose that is valid. Did any say why Satan was owed anything, too?
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  107. So far, several varying ways of life, too, that were sometimes in conflict with each other? And were party to feudal wars jeopardising peasant's agricultural lives?
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  108. Well, I don't have it 'til GAPs are filled... in plot.
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  109. He was a Deist, to be fair.
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  110. To many he was also considered an Arian heretic, though?
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  111.  @kodeyj6407  Can you sway Jews? And would you ever apologize to them for how Christendom treated them?
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  112. Although getting a consensus afterward might be harder. And sort of important if it is about jeopardy to souls, or similar scope of concept.
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  113. Sometimes. If they don't try to be too ambitious, and leave some wiggle room.
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  114. Reformist, post exile ones, I gather. Plus, some Rabbis are cultural, not theological, scholars.
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  115. And then Satan will get back in?
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  116. Some it does, some it does not, so well. It may be able to limit the definitions of WHICH kind of God, I suppose, at a stretch?
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  117. It's be somewhat arrived at, yes, but does somewhat depend on assumptions of what time and space ARE (usually frame as two aspects of the same thing, these days) and if they could ever have had different forms before the expansion of the dimensions we now recognise around us.
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  118. Hmm
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  119. Maybe. A lot of water has passed under the bridge, and the Talmud has had many interpretations since then. Concepts had to be interpreted for new generations. Might lead to a decline in relatability.
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  120. Even if there is some ambiguity about how it works? Even the Simpsons lately suggested Judaism has no clear definition of an afterlife. Or is it more about bodily resurrection, than ascension? The term World to Come can also be ambiguous, sometimes?
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  121. Well, I need to find a more firm basis than that. Everyone says that, nearly.
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  122. And also, for some reason, various angels became prideful...
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  123. Not even Nephilim ( : ?
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  124. Did he need to use much circular logic? On jeopardy, say?
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  125. Fair enough, although I do wonder why Satan was owed anything by YHWH...?
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  126. And how do we know from this, which or how many creators, did it?
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  127. Apparently a Reform rabbi. Meaning she takes the Torah in a more metaphorical sense. E.G., Reconstructional Jews believe that anyone can become the Messiah.
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  128. Hmm, and he will also end all violence between Kurds, Shias, Sunnis, Shi'ites and Wahabists?
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  129. Can be very open ended...
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  130.  @GloryBeToGodForever  And why should Jews trust you, and why was their basic life and safety, a low priority, to Jesus, in 1400 AD, and 1572, August, etc, etc... And why was rogue angels KEEPING powers, and full knowledge of which and how many gods were real, a higher priority than for Eve's children, not losing that innate knowledge...
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  131. She's a post Reconstructionist Jew, so more of a cultural Rabbi, of an offshoot, I gather, @Anime Spartan .
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  132. Okay. Although I find the less embroidering religion has, or huge claims it tries to make, the easier it can be accept or believe.
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  133. I hope so, despite dogma...
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  134. It is a start, anyway. Needs deepening.
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  135. I'm afraid Numbers and Samuel rather settled it for me. As did the issues with thought crime (about coveting, among others) and the cult like reading of Luke 14:26 that often results.
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  136.  @isabelv6885  It depends if you also seriously believe that our two ignorant ancestors passing on an impaired free will and impaired spiritual nature, via an hereditary curse, is NOT remotely, like being robotically programmed, either. In ways no single, ruddy angel, ever was.
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  137. Also, are they the SAME or different, to spirits, and what is a 'souled man', and do not early Biblical terms conflate soul, with breath? So a dead person HAS no soul, until breath is added back into it, perhaps, @Gadae Habib ? Say, on the perfected Earth, ala Revelations...?
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  138. Mana from heaven raining on Africa might help. Just saying. Or commandments being found on the moon. Not trying to spoof, but Romans 1:20 is just WAY TOO broad, as it stands. All it can really indicate right now is that SOMEBODY made the world, or multiple somebodies.
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  139. And if we go by James 3:15, it seems like parts of creation WERE passed over to other entities, anyway.
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  140. Where does it say WHY demons were permitted to reach Earth?
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  141. They are doing... what they can, yes?
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  142. Hard to say, but does not seem to have happened same way is often said, at least.
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  143. Well, unfurled SOME dimensions, maybe... of a larger set.
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  144. Who's sins, @Menchie Mores ? Of the 'to miss the mark' kind? And Adam's, or Eve's, or ours? And of defenceless babies, say, in Hosea 9:12-16, and Zephaniah, that a certain character, err apparently, BRAGS about killin...?
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  145. And no partners? Ah, but did Shaitan ALTER any of it, later?
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  146. She's a Reconstructionist Jew, from what I gather. And more of a cultural expert?
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  147. Unclear, How much does theology vary? It did before... And who will say why Satan was owed anything by YHWH? Will that be explained in full detail?
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  148. Seems that way, thus far.
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  149. Post Reform and post exile, from what I gather. Also, a cultural more than theological expert?
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  150. Why? Which selective bits would be used?
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  151. So what? Would you care, to explain, Genesis 30:37 to 31:17, to people here, maybe, @Ziyad Rahman ?
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  152.  @criticclips1560  For which things? And how did a perfect heaven become ah, imperfect, again?
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  153. What do you mean ONLY? It's NEVER only a relationship, Trve Negative. And I ALREADY HAVE a relationship with the human race, whatever Paul clunkily categorises some parts into.
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  154. @Ari Freedman To this day, I cannot, I must say, comprehend precisely what Jews DO believe, about an afterlife. What of ones who speak of a World to Come.
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  155.  @rachel-vv5jq  Interesting - though I gather some do believe in it? So is that the group from who the World to Come concept, mostly originates? Or was it a later addition...
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  156. Did Jesus put his trust in Torquemada or not, though, @Austin Furgason ?
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  157.  @epicgamerchannel6230  Also, do they fulfil John 14:13 - and would it be clear, if they did? Including the 'these things and greater than I' bit - perhaps...
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  158. I think I would trust spirituality over religion, at this point, a lot more. And some clunky and insidious dogmas can nest within such teachings, fester, and divide (or create siege mentalities) all in a worryingly short era.
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  159. Thing I CANNOT easily be at peace at is idea of gods/spirits manipulating us, dividing us into tribes or creeds, and feeding off the confusion and emotions, if so. A bit paranoid, but also, by no means a certainty, anyway.
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  160. She's a Reform Rabbi. There are several divergent groups among Judaism.
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  161. Good point.
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  162. So, how did all that come about? And how was Matthew 27:25 to end, also? Though I would prob ask Christians that, instead.
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  163. Or a Sufi?
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  164. It does okay, but should not be seen as dominant on such topics. In the end, we use more than reason to make such choices.
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  165. Right - and what makes fallen angels able to reach this world, then, without being blocked...?
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  166. Post Reconstructionist Jew, I think?
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  167. Sorry, and then gave up keeping a closer eye on what many priests, Popes and theologians did, later? And had Matthew 27:25 play out to great harmful effect, @ma fr ? I need more than that, sorry.
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  168. And why did God think it so important that church, had to exist...
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  169.  @mannykimble  Also, what was the frinking point of Joshua 7:24.
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  170. Well, there are several types of it, though. And the Dalai Llama is in dispute with one sect, at times.
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  171. Well, at least it showed that many DO NOT think the same, which was know to some for quite a while.
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  172. We'd have to work on it. Biophotons and subtle envelopes do not seem to have caught on...
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  173. And what created ignorance in angels?
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  174. Science cannot tell one way or another, but is definitely no longer INHERENTLY obvious, as many claims said.
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  175. Where fear draws the line, fear of defamation or of losing a deeply held view...
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  176. To WHERE? Why was heaven not always STABLE?
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  177.  @ProdByDrestar  Also, if I may, when did a consistent Jewish view of an afterlife, first arise?
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  178. Well, if you could also explain why a fruit from Eden would affect one unborn gender more than another future gender...
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  179. Was kind of law, to enter universities, at time?
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  180. They do lean on it quite a bit, at least.
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  181. Not as such, no. Though which god, may be another matter... And which type...
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  182. I am not against idea, but not that impressed by case so far made, and all the infighting.
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  183. Fair enough, but at various times in history (including Islam with Occasionalism, as a philosophy) many of the major religions have taken oppositional stances to the scientific method.
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  184. There generally are things it can't explain, yes - or the explanations are sometimes very approximate. The full nature of superposition, for instance.
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  185. Sometimes the possible damage is done by half understood explanations, or people confusing them in popular culture, yes. But generally, scientists hold themselves very accountable for error.
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  186. Pretending to have a full answer, I assume?
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  187. Yes, can discuss Genesis 30:37 - it should be a bit short. I mean, most of that was totally implausible. Like, every syllable?
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  188. Potentially, yes. But are we talking an interventionist God, or a non-interventionist God? And how many more blood libels or inquisitions should we potentially expect?
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  189. Well, we need more scraps. Sometimes an old book is not enough, as it currently is.
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  190. What, and also show His possible NEGLECT, too, of medieval Jews, who lacked a lot of basic rights, safety, protection, etc, even from supposed Christian priests, at times, @Astro ? Sorry, but I am a bit... concerned, about the precedent.
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  191. But which one? And why was Satan owed anything? Or soweth onto this world?
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  192. Sorry, why was Satan owed anything, again?
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  193. Well, SOME kind of light, anyway. But given Catholicism couldn't fully keep consistent the difference between 'empty' or 'without form', which does not HAVE to mean 'empty' in old translations, @Nami Calilap - it could get a good deal more confusing than that, maybe. And given Genesis seems somewhat borrowed, too..
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  194. And does YHWH do that, also?
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  195. First, decide which version of Islam is the truest, I guess, @AY Knowledge? Also, does Wahabism count?
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  196. It may be. I hear assorted claims (including about perispirit and other labels for the 'force') My own experiences are more ambiguous, not aided by the serious insomnia I had at the time.
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  197. And why was Satan owed any access to humans, when Adam knew bugger all, at time? Or of stakes beyond him and Eve alone?
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  198. Well, making decisions often require trust, more than blind faith, yes. If they are to be such really important decisions, involving a new relationship.
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  199. Do they not believe in the World to Come, though? This has often confused me. Or is it all a form of bodily resurrection, too?
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  200. So, or the sake of right and wrong, can you clarify Numbers 31:17 for me, and fate of the captives, in it?
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  201. It's complicated, and depends on concepts like quantum foam, virtual particles, the borrowing of energy, and if a realm of some type may 'precede' the big bang, and whether more than one universe can exist within that realm. For more, see M-Theory, or the somewhat out of fashion Burkhard Heim's theories...
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  202. And is this dissonance healthy to have? Professional detachment does overlap, though.
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  203. Some do, some don't.
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  204. I remain on the fence... though well aware that religions often fracture and dissimulate.
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  205. Of where?
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  206. All over place.
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  207. Why can demons reach Earth?
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  208. And no irritating gaps on the basic backstory, on the Fall, on what Satan was owed at all, and other such things... Plus an agreement on what the word 'natural' means...
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  209. And what about when He DOESN'T reply to some people, even some who BEGGED to speak with Him, or for help, or some who begged, to not be gay, say, @Icy Brown ? And was the trial of ONE sabbath breaker, in Numbers 15:32, of GREATER significance and moral importance, if I may ask, to YHWH and Jesus, than CENTURIES of wars, torture, pogroms, and a Spanish Inquisition? Or priests making slavery apologetics, to Africans, or others...? After all the former, also, why should Jews, now take Christians seriously - often solely, at verbal claims...?
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  210.  @IcyBrown  Sorry, in the view of many of us, INACTION is as meritable of comment, as any action, in cases like that, and knowing it was going to happen, too. And many DID FEEL it was wrong, or their past condition, etc - but STILL often did not get, an answer. And anyway, those things above, were par for the course, in 1 Samuel 15, Hosea 9, and Zephania...
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  211.  @IcyBrown  Did I miss any crucial points? I am trying to further communication, here, I guess...? Maybe, in a less prone to potential, horrific error, that 1 Corinthians 10, may - and I say, may - have led to, between Christians, and Jews, etc...?
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  212. True. It's hoped the scientific method will leave enough avenues open to complete such things. There are worrying signs though, in how talk of the Big Bang already often defaults to saying it makes 'no sense' to talk of time, or events, before the Bang. Nor does it say much about possible nonlinear time.
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  213. Yes, just at the corners. Very distorted, in presentation, maybe.
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  214. Also, why was heaven ever unsafe? Unstable?
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  215. How were they, as Stewards, to do their job, without that knowledge? Or awareness of what they had responsibility for, and future generations also?
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  216. Somewhat, with much focus on figurative Genesis.
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  217. And of the bits Satan was permitted to alter?
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  218. Deists, maybe.
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  219. Seems fair, as this seemed to be a Reconstructionist Jew. Also, do you have any views on the World to Come, and how it developed, and if Jews used to not believe in a literal afterlife?
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  220.  @bbi_bbi1902  Though by doctrine of dependent origination, could Buddha exist WITHOUT Everest...?
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  221. And is it information, as well? Important, yes, but still a bit unclear.
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  222. I don't think they hold ALL the answers, no. So incomplete, at least.
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  223. Not clear cut, at least.
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  224. Which scripture, and which translations?
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  225. How do blood clots become an infant? What is a Tabernacle, also?
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  226.  @user-sh2rc5kc7x  Which God? And how does sin arise, in heaven, from nothing? Pride? But pride in what - a fulfilling life in a realm pervaded by God's presence surely isn't going to lead to delusional or suicidal pride. Or envy, or dissatisfaction? But then, maybe heaven wasn't complete, yet.
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  227.  @alil6547  Clarify, then, why it wasn't complete. And if God's spirit cannot pervade all heaven, how can we know it pervades all this world? When we do not know which bits of nature are the work of a single, unalloyed or corrupted hand?
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  228. Can we normalise coerced marriages either, or Leviticus 25...
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  229.  @rachel-vv5jq  Sorry, just confirming... who is meant, by we, here...?
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  230.  @ndiorogueye3807  Sorry, I just found Numbers 31 kind of disturbing.
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  231. Rabbis are more varied than you'd think. Many are more culturally Jewish than strictly religious. And many would say Adam and Eve's blunder was not as serious as many claim.
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  232. unite it first, then.
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  233.  @simplicityistheultimatesop6571  I'm not an atheist - sorry if you got that impression. Agnostic and a humanist, generally. And if it had all the answers, then solve disputes in assorted (and at times, feuding) Islamic nations more peacefully? And sort out how Shariah SHOULD be applied or not, in say, Brunei. The outcome there has often not been pretty.
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  234. DISCERN? When there are FOUR HUNDRED denominational variations of Christianity? Can we resolve some of THAT first? And why did the blood libel on Jews even come to BE? And persist for centuries? And the Inquisition, after that? How do they perceive the 'choice' then?
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  235. So, WHICH God is waiting for us? And would God ever make himself unhappy?
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  236. I can respect that. But asking to be 'saved by' someone when I don't know WHY I was put in jeopardy can be rough.
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  237. And why was heaven ever unsafe? Also, thoughts on Numbers 31:17? Prisoners, in particular?
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  238. True, it affected much Buddhism already. But religions have been known to be 'watered' down all by themselves, occasionally.
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  239. What of information? Does it also make journey? And who sucks them up? Do we trust them?
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  240. Selective philosophy? And theology, I find, can often involve much circular logic?
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  241. Or for long term survival strategies of the genome and shared phenotype?
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  242. Unclear, fully, this far.
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  243. Tell me where the logic is in Exodus 21:20, and Romans 1:20, though? Doesn't the latter say NOTHING about how nature was SPLIT with Satan?
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  244. And what are rules for rape?
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  245. It has been a very rocky road, yes. Thus far, I tend to agree with your conclusion.
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  246. So, how literal is Genesis? Also, was nature sabotaged or not?
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  247. Including the Ordeal of Bitter Waters?
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  248. A Reconstructionist Jew, or Jewish by culture alone, rather, it seems.
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  249. And that also includes truth on if Eve knew of the wider stakes beyond to her and Adam?
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  250. Jewish hermeneutics had to be VERY creative at times, perhaps, to rationalise verses with the claim Jehovah loved EVERYONE, despite wild evidence to contrary?
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  251. Though may fundamentally alter some scientific views, if they are explained. That is a very big IF, though.
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  252. I intend to.
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  253. Also, heaven was apparently not fully stable, either...?
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  254.  @sgclutch552  Did he love medieval Jews, or not, though? Enough to do anything, at all, to aid them. Yes or no.
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  255.  @sgclutch552  Also, do you recall what happened to those kids, in Joshua 7...
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  256. Why though? To save from Himself? And why was Satan owed any access at all, or to keep any powers?
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  257.  @flyingturret208thecannon5  So, not like this version described today? ' Fourth Castillo 4 hours ago @chris sonofpear1 other men was not not elected to be spiritual, only those who was chosen by God out of all the sinners... all men are sinful Romans 3:23, but God chose some to be saved only by His grace, Romans 9'
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  258. Only, some of the time - alas. Better than that Genesis 30:37 garbage, anyway...
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  259. And better, perhaps, than James, in Romans 1:20?
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  260. Time was, contemplation and meditation used to be more respected among Western religions, and the similarities were greater.
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  261. So, which God is it? And is it a less bipolar nitwit than Jehovah is often painted as?
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  262. But King of what? He didn't seem to spend even one, ah, YEAR, as King of Israel, and seemed to take less and less interest in what happened to Jews post 70 AD, and by 1572, they were being treated abominably, even by many Christians (or purported ones, at least) And no reunifying of schismed, or divergent sects and churches were occurring easily, either. So was some initiative being surrendered to Satan, or at least, Man, at the time, @james herrera ?
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  263. Einstein was a follower of Spinoza, and so, arguably, more of a Deist.
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  264. Hmm. and which sharia...
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  265. And how does one best, and most reliably, do that?
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  266. She's a Reconstructionist Jew, I believe.
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  267. A Post Reconstructionist Rabbi, as I recall...
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  268. Didn't he used to be a loyal ACCUSER of humans, on God's behalf, @Retrojunk 84 ? Explains Job a bit better.
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  269. I kind of like it. Provided it is not misinformation from annunaki or something.
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  270. And for which gaps will YHWH fill in, this time? Also, how much of nature can Satan control or influence, or not, A. G. C.?
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  271. And if that context ends up not fitting the narrative many modern theologians now give it? Like in what context Elohim used to mean?
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  272. Also, older translations of Genesis said that 'formless' was more like a form of chaos, did it not?
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  273. It had a plural grammatical connotation, for one... I also still need to know why Satan was owed anything...?
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  274. And can you too? For instance, why could Satan reach this world, and did Eve know of stakes to more than her and Adam?
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  275. Never heard of that one, before.
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  276. A WORLD, is not a universe, though.
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  277.  @Ommateum  Sorry, that book's got a LONG way to go to make itself credible again, old stone chucker don't mix those fabrics, oh yes, you can bequeath those slaves - those women, keep for yourself - Romans 13:1, Samuel 15:15, and Leviticus 25:46 fellah Jehovah? That one, you mean? Who impairs most humans before birth, in ways no angel ever was, before making their loyalty choices? That God, in particular?
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  278. Talking of, ah, PARTIAL truth, have you yet found a clear mention of WHY demons were permitted to reach Earth...?
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  279. Shame about the families, then? If Job had had time to ask WHY God would want demons on this world, sufficient to make him later have to drown much of it - or for then to set up 'counterfeit religions' - what might He have said?
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  280. Gold digger? People might feign, even unconsciously, many things out of fear. How would a test determine the source of that?
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  281. A Reconstruction Jew, in fact...
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  282. That makes a good deal of sense. But how are souls... cycled? And who 'runs' that part? Or maybe they feed on it? Hope not, maybe. Also, are we to work it all out ourselves? Tao and Atman + Brahman ideas also touch upon this.
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  283. Interesting. Most interesting.
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  284. I like to keep it open ended. That said, I CANNOT unquestioningly accept various dogmas when I see how they have been enforced or barred against questions multiple times in history.
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  285. Well, NEARLY everything. The politics of angels, and heaven? Might be trickier... Or how Replacement Theology ever became a thing?
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  286. And to figure out if Deuteronomy 21 and Corinthians 2:14 don't have circular logic, arguably?
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  287. How do you tell which one to use, @NoNya Bizzz ?
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  288. It did well, for a long time, yes. Not so well during the period of the philosophy known as Occasionalism, though.
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  289. Apparently a post Reconstructionist Jew, or similar.
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  290. And what of Corinthians 2:14? Also, why was Satan owed ANYTHING by YHWH?
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  291. In a situation where all souls were put into risk in the first place? And Satan was trusted with knowledge and powers (and to KEEP many) whilst Eve was denied some useful knowledge to fulfil her own role on Earth?
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  292. And with no gaps?
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  293. Or violent misunderstandings, or loose ends, like curse of Ham, or Matthew 25:27?
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  294. But which version? And what was brought to Spanish Jews, @andrew jollycody?
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  295. Okay, but which one? And why was Satan owed any access?
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  296. And WHO should be leading Islam, post Mohammed's death, and did not Allah KNOW the Bible and Torah would be corrupted? So why start ALL OVER again, instead of correcting or guiding both those books, better? And why would any want to apostate from the new 'most perfect' form of revelation and Surrender, that a death penalty for doing so, would ever be needed...
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  297. It's not that bad - could be far worse. But to say it fully supports the claim of Romans 1:20, and more, that this points to ONE specific author, is fallacious.
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  298. There's room for improvement. As there was for Leviticus 25.
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  299.  @austinfurgason3634  Okay, fair enough - but WHICH carpenter, and how many? Also, why was heaven ever flawed?
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  300. Oh, and how are agnostics or atheists to know WHICH or how many gods, is the true one, @W Bromand?
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  301. And how does the gatekeeping work, thereafter? And why do religions often AVOID discussion of some topics about the spirit world? Or the permeability of the worlds?
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  302. But not so much in Corinthians 2:14?
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  303.  @hassanalialqadiri  How do you feel about parenting? And is this God, a PARENT of ALL humans? Even though the 'nannies' in Eden consisted of two semi-ignorant humans, with no idea of wider stakes, and a snake, who was possibly a deranged, suicidally prideful, angel? And then they ALTER all future humans, who had NO choice, in the matter - not like ALL the angels, apparently, got, in direct sight, of this god, no less - and then are scattered into a world, amidst disguised adversaries? Also, where does Hosea 9:12-16, ever, EVER, fit into, any model - of parenting?
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  304. Why could demons reach Earth?
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  305.  @drexlerjohn3822  So - can you feed 5000 Africans, with 1000 fish, meantime? Matthew 7:7, and John 14:12-13, and Matthew 17:20 - all kind, of imply, so. And many starving Africans, and Indians could well benefit. If this journey is to actually go many paces. Without this - many can claim to be Christian, but we saw that, before. During many past schisms, wars, atrocities, disputes, and backings - of slavery, inquisitions, blood libels, and wars. Or of Pope Paul III, for one case - ordering people, flayed, alive. Very, peaceful. As was, the Thirty Years, War? In contrast rapid resolution, is obviously possible - as Joshua 7:24, Numbers 15, and 16, and more - seemingly, show. None of them took three or four, centuries, to clear up (the issues each chapter, focused, on)
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  306. What, the wisdom of that tripe in Leviticus 25, the story of Joseph and the specially bred sheep, God needing angels to tell where Balaam's friends were, and why Satan kept any powers post exile, @Young ?
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  307. Everything? Have you ASKED what the Native Americans remember their own history being? Why the blood libel on Jews came to exist, and remain for so long? And why God would permit fallen angels ANYWHERE near Earth?
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  308. Just possibly. And that we are ready for actual meat, and not milk? (metaphorically)
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  309.  @lespaul5734  No, but I was observing how we cannot go much further with all this metaphorical, allegorical or symbolic parts - particularly when not all agree on all the details, and when other parts seem to have omissions?
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  310. But then, I begin to tire of all this grandstanding, and inconsistencies, in one book.
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  311. Cultural /religious expert in Jewish matters...
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  312. Also, guidelines for slavery, when to spare or not spare women and children, and when to er, forcibly marry them off?
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  313. But was it God's direct PREFERENCE or not, and how do we know? And were rules in Leviticus 25:46 different for foreigners, than for Hebrews? Also, how is Glory defined, in Numbers and Samuel 15?
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  314. Okay, but were pre Flood people, ancestors of Amalekites, Midianites, and Jews in medieval Christendom loved LESS though?
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  315. A post Reconstructionist Jew, I gather.
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  316. Is that because of being a woman? And since when did the Eden fruit corrupt one gender more than the other?
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  317. Many are Deists, technically.
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  318. Okay. Enough to answer why Satan was owed anything? To do with this world?
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  319. As in: owed to KEEP any of his powers from Heaven, or to reach this world, or to have ANY access to humans, at all. Or to get BACK into heaven, in Book of Job... (we cannot)
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  320. Sure. Any thoughts on what Abrogation is?
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  321. No, I mean tradition of newer Quranic verses being prioritised over older ones?
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  322. But why could fallen angels set foot upon Earth?
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  323. Yes, although perhaps, not always to people's satisfaction. But inferences can be made. One of the bigger debates of recent being about free will, if it is real, pre-destined stimuli, epiphenomalism and so forth.
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  324. It's definitely a worthy goal. May be hard to define in terms people's perceptions about their nature may accept, though.
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  325.  @IssyFishyy  Which bits of nature were sabotaged or not, again.
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  326. George LeMaitre did. Who helped discover the cosmic background radiation of the Big bang.
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  327. Huh? I thought Satan retaining various angelic powers and having access, and Eve and Adam having major lack of knowledge on many things, had at least something, to do with it?
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  328. It's a very good question, and I do agree that the terminology physicists use in public is often insufficient and unhelpful. The idea of causation itself, before time, in a recognisably linear form, can work in a meaningful way before the 'big bang' is also complicated, at best. The focus lately has been on the inflation period, rather than on quantum foam and quantum geometries. But I could recommend tentatively the concept of Heim Theory for a look at what MAY have preceded the Big Bang, and that it does not yet rule out a creator outright.
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