Comments by "" (@orboakin8074) on "hoser"
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I have no doubt the world is in for some turbulent (or as the Chinese say, "interesting") times but I have a good feeling most of us will make it and it will be grueling and hard but necessary. Heck! My grandparents and my great-grandmother, along with my parents and their respective families, made it through the colonial era of Nigeria, our civil war, military juntas, the cold war, and even I made it through the 2000s, the great recession, the SARS, Ebola, Avian flu pandemics, and much more. We humans are a stubborn and resilient species and many of us have experienced so serious stuff and I am damn sure we will survive what's coming, Amen.😊😊
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@TheZackofSpades The borders are an issue but it is mostly due to the politicians and some really regressive cultures. For example, in my country, the south is very ethnically diverse with different tribes and a mix of Christians and muslims but despite this there is more secularism here and as a result, we tend to co-exist with each other and our region is more developed and the economic powerhouse of Nigeria. Ethnic issues still exist but never enough to cause serious rifts. Part of this is due to the fact that the British spent more time in the southern part of Nigeria and imposed their social and economic systems on the region much longer. Comparatively, in the northern part of Nigeria, they are more ethnically homogenous and culturally and religiously similar there but that region is more rife with illiteracy, insecurity (frequent incursions by terrorists/bandits of the same tribe from Chad, Niger Republic etc), rampant corruption, social disunity and underdevelopment. The reason is due to the fact that the British, despite colonizing that part of Nigeria, did not impose their own social and economic systems on the region. The traditional rulers made this deal to secure their own positions but in the long-run, it made their region worse off. The borders are an issue but the culture and the leadership in the areas plays a much bigger role.
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@namso3772 Friend, if colonialism was the main factor behind Africa's long period of underdevelopment and other issues, South Asia, East Asia, Central Asia, South East Asia, South America, and even African countries like Botswana, Kenya, Tunisia, Morocco and Namibia would all be desolate and backwards places rivalling Afghanistan. Africa's problems stem from much more than colonialism. Almost every country and continent on earth was colonised repeatedly throughout history. What makes a country or a region develop is not the lack of colonisation but having good socio-economic systems, national unity, and smart political leadership. Also, the CIA is not the one who installs every dictator in Africa. Most of the time, they ceased power or people just voted for them. Please, don't try and remove personal responsibility form us Africans. Your point about Africa potentially being better without colonialism doesn't hold weight because most of Africa, prior to western colonialism was in the iron age, had subsistence farming, and we had no established nations, no modern technology, no strong economies, no unified national identities, slavery and conquest from other African tribes and Arab conquerors, no modern medicine or infrastructure etc. Western colonialism (yes, because Arabs were colonising Africa before them and doing much worse to us) was not a black and white affair. It had many negative impacts but one would have to be a fool to disregard the actual positives it did result in. For example, slavery was actually abolished in much of Africa thanks to colonialists like British.
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@Dracon7601 Actually, Botswana was not "unnoticed." What made them such a better country pre and post colonialism is that their culture and socio-political style was similar to what the British had i.e. more representative form of traditional government with Chiefs having to be elected and rule via merit and good will of the people. That ensured that stuff like meritocracy and even individual rights were upheld. Also, they were almost assimilated into apartheid/white-ruled Southern Africa, especially for their diamonds, until their leaders actually asked the British to take colonial rule of their country because the British were a far better option than apartheid Afrikaans (Look it up, I am not lying). And as I mentioned, their socio-cultural way of life was already similar to what the British had and when they started imposing stuff like democracy, capitalism, etc, Botswana adopted to all of them very well compared to many other African colonies. That is why till today, they remain one of the most politically and economically stable countries in Africa.
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@second2none914 I see the points you are trying to make but rather than coming to the same conclusion I arrived at i.e. that Africa's issues are due to multifaceted reasons, beyond colonialism or racism, you seem to rather fall back on simply attributing them mainly to colonialism and racism.
First off, on the point of Congo, absolutely. Leopold and Belgium did horrible things to the people and the country during colonialism but you forget to mention the real reasons why the country is so unfortunate. Prior to colonialism, other factors hindered them. Their geography (thicketed jungles) prevented proper agriculture and human settlements and coalescing of people into more unified groups and this led to division and exploitation from their own tribal rulers via slavery and ethnic wars. Post-colonialism, that factor still hinders them, not the Belgium's. Rwanda also had tribal issues prior to Belgium colonialism, then had the tragic genocide, and now are a burgeoning economic power in East Africa simply because of good leadership. Even Botswana with less resources, a history of different tribes that united and that were colonised, is now a beacon of political and economic stability and progress in Africa. What is Congo's excuse?
As for Nigeria, our civil war happened not due to religious reasons but tribal reasons. The Igbo people felt very under-represented in the post-colonial government. Various attempts to resolve their grievances failed and thus the war happened. Should we just keep blaming the British or the inept corrupt Nigerian government that caused it? Or do you suppose we, In Nigeria, should just balkanize or actually work together for some semblance of unity? I am from a minority tribe, myself. Do you think we should break away and create our own country or just blame all our woes on the British?
Cameroon and the Francophone-Anglophone war. That is tragic but I need to ask you this, what do you think about the Ethiopian-Tigray war? Ethiopia was never colonized and yet still has inter-ethnic clashes. Are you saying both of these wars are simply due to the difference in languages? What about the fact that Cameroon has economic problems, insecurity problems and corrupt leadership? Don't you think those are more responsible for the current disunity that you are trying to simplify down to language? If tat were the case, India would have a civil war every few months given how most of the country has different ethnic languages besides Hindu.
Sorry but you may be trying to straddle the middle but it's clear that you still hold the narrow-minded view that all of Africa's problems are simply due to colonialism.
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@second2none914 Okay, here's my response:
1. I never said the Congo lacked agriculture. I said they lacked "proper agriculture" due to geographic reasons (thicketted jungles in most of the landmass ) and the main form of agriculture was subsistence farming which is terrible for society building or economic growth.
2. My country's civil war did, indeed have a tribal issue that I didn't deny while you simply assumed it was down to religion. I stated why the Igbos felt disenfranchised due to economic reasons and lack of proper political representation by the military government and how the inept military leadership collapsed any chances of reconciliation and caused the war. ALso, unlike what you may think, Nigeria is not homogenous in all regions. The north is a mix as well. We have mainly muslims but majorly Hausa who actually get on well with us southerners and even Igbos. We also have Tiv, Kanuri and northern Christians there. It's teh Fulani minority who rule much of the north that is at fault for the schisms and you clearly disregard this reality. Even we in teh south are diverse. We have our ethnic schisms but we still manage to work together here. It's a leadership issue, not a tribe or religion issues as you blindly think.
3. On the point of Cameroon, you tried to simplify their civil war as a French-English issue, the same way you tried to simply my country's civil war as atribe and religion issue. If taht's the case, why not use that to explain Ethiopia's ongoing civil war? They were never colonized but they do have leadership and economic issues liek most of us in Afirca. SO is their civil war also due to language and tribal differences?
4. Finally, if you feel I am carrying water for the colonizers, that's your interpretation. The reason I don't use the excuse of colonialism to explain all of Africa's problems is because it doesn't make any sense. There are several African countres who were colonized and had less resources but had good leadership, social unity (even with multiple ethnic tribes) and were able to manage their countries well. For example, Botswana and now Zambia. WHat is their excuse? WHat Africa needs is good political leadership and economic policies; not more victimhood and blame passing or obsession over the past of colonialism. Most countries on earth were colonized by others. Teh ones who did well afterwords are the ones that focused on improving their countries politically, economically, and socially.
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@scaryhobbit211 Good observation, friend. the answer for how India has managed to remain a unified country, despite the diverse ethnicities and sub-cultures within it, is simply because they are a federation (i.e. each state/province/region has some level of self-autonomy/administration) Basically like the republic United States. That is the solution to Africa's issues; true federalism/republicanism. Another thing that helps India is the fact that their civilization had an early start at coalescing its various peoples and forming a unified identity, unlike much of Africa (with a few exceptions). In fact, the British colonisation of the region actually had a positive effect of accelerating that coalescing. With Africa, sadly, due to geographic and climatic factors that limited agriculture and development of human settlements, the coalescing and blending of multiple ethnic groups into unified groups was not happening here on a large scale. As bad as colonialism was, one major effect it had, and still continues to have on much of sub-Saharan Africa, is that national identities and unity (no matter how imperfect) were created.
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