Comments by "kristine Sharp" (@kristinesharp6286) on "Hasidic Boys' Education Controversy | Eli Spitzer" video.

The Amish are allowed to be educated differently. But there is a basic for the younger grades I just don’t see applied here. The Amish also have a period where they are free to explore whether they will leave or stay.
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It’s fine there is Hebrew and Religious Studies. The state has standards of learning. Those are meant to make sure at 16-18 a child could get a job or continue education. Other religions have religious studies in private schools and those kids have a working knowledge of math and the language. Even home schoolers have a standard.
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It’s not people outside complaining. It’s kids grown up now adults complaining.
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@sll3537 the age to pursue Higher Ed is the age they can OTD. The women could sit in a community college classroom and take a math or English class. May not be calculus but you can say the same for public school kids. The men could not. They would be language learning English for a time before taking a remedial English class. Or be in some sort of skills trade class. Which is fine an honest choice of study, but maybe not their choice of what to do. But even the Trade class will have to wait for the language learning English program to complete. The Amish would know how to build a structure, repair things, make furniture, milk a cow, birth livestock, plant, sew, etc…. They don’t lose their occupation if they leave and they have some marketable skill. I would rather they cover more in school.
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@FriedaVizelBrooklyn I don’t mean get all wild I just mean they all know they can live another way. The point isn’t for everyone to change their life but the choice needs to be there.
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@desertpriere the girls are fine it’s the boys education that is at issue.
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@moishegoldstein501 I thought there were weekly Torah portions. Not hourly Torah portions. Does God say you have to get spend x time on a page a day? You can’t add or take for Torah so how can it be lowered?
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@malkylowinger4194 that is my point. A 14 year old still needs math. Surely there is time for all. Reading more portions/pages you might get less out of it besides.
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@beans4853 learning must be done fruitfully. Must not waste time on useless means (English in the US is not useless). Yiddish not required to learn Torah. It is worthwhile. I am not saying exclude it. I am saying English is necessary. Did the Rebbe set a poor example by studying electrical stuff for two years? It is not ‘possible’ to spend time learning Yiddish at the expense of English. Some great scholar needs to spend more time on that portion and correct the current perception of it. Do you not think a person studying an hour at school of Torah and again an hour at home with Dad is less fruitful than a person spending several hours a day on it?
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@beans4853 yet all that stuff is covered when studying Torah and not enough for any of them to pass the test. Just statistics should have a few passing it. It’s not that 20% passed in comparison to 40% in the secular schools, all of them failed. What are they doing for 10 hours a day? The work day is 8 hours. The transportation means another hour or two on the bus since heaven forbid a kid go to the Jewish school three blocks away where their dad where hats on Shabbat and the mothers wear long wigs instead of short ones. What happens on the bus? An actual break, learning, secular learning? This is probably a uniquely American problem with the buses. When these things first considered people were busy feeding themselves, raising goats and all manner of jobs, time was the way people retained. But too much time can be fruitless and not fruitful. A hundred years most stopped secular education at 8th grade and got full time labor jobs. The discrepancy was not seen.
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Mostly the women are the breadwinners.
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@csa6058 yet everyone needs to know the law. And by 12/13 the individual is responsible themselves. Talmud definitely should be studied. But that does not start until 8ish for males. An 8 year old will get something different out of it than 20. Then 32, then 44… The commandment is to study Torah. Ideally a father should teach his son. The Talmud elaborates on Torah. Why are minors not learning from their fathers? Why are they subcontracting this out to this community system all hours of day? The child and father have to spend time at home in order for a father to teach his son. This system is going against what is expected. If a father does not teach when he matures he is to find a scholar to teach him. Age 13. There is no age to end its study. To read through the Talmud it takes 8 years. Do you make male converts wait 8 years to convert to make sure they are following Halacha properly? Every male must learn daily but every male need not be a scholar. Why is the oral given more time and more importance than the written Torah? Torah never said males should not speak the local language.
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The parents of the kids in these schools don’t want it like this. They just don’t say anything so they remain a good family who put their kids in the system that will guarantee them matches. The girls have half day math science English and they are still Jewish, observe a Jewish life, know enough Torah. And their school day shorter some years than the boys. A few generations ago the sages were not boys spending 1 hour a day learning secular subject and 7-9 hours learning Torah and other religious subjects. They likely learned some of the time at home as well with dad. They may have had a few hours for a hobby or skill. If a parent asks for change they will be shunned by the community and likely leave it just so they can be labeled as outside the community and their request for change not sincerely coming from the community. Further the class sizes are larger. That one hour a day is even less helpful. Why are parents spending thousands per kid for that? It’s coming to tens of thousands per year. The other complication is the school schedules for the boys and girls schools don’t line up. Leaving child care more a problem for the women making the money, bearing the kids, raising the kids. There is a circular economy to all this that is not sustainable. The tuitions are well above Catholic schools but in those the teachers are not religious single people anymore but lay people married with a working spouse or single many with kids. Anyone complaining is told it costs a lot to run a school. To cover those with learning fathers, others are charged more. Teachers paid a lot because they have several kids to put through the school, the buildings having to be excellent to make the price tag worth it and some don’t have working spouse. Parents enrolling no matter the cost cause their kids can’t marry decent if they are not in the system. Classrooms overstuffed. And because sect matters so much everyone needs to go to their own subset school instead of walking down the block to the your favorite of the 2 schools within 5 blocks of their house. That means busing, more hassle in the morning and afternoon, more money some of it from taxes. And a ridiculous number of schools to open, manage.. Yet everyone still has to be in walking distance of a shul. But a school can be far away or close just taking a long time to get there because of the traffic of thousands of school kids in vehicles instead of walking to and from school. And in some places like Lakewood parents are not even picking the school. The school is decided for them. Some families send to multiple girl elementary schools just cause some had a place and another didn’t. Israel can manage this a lot more cleanly. Where does the Torah say you have to hand over half your income so someone else can teach your kids to be Jewish? Why does the school decide how long the mom’s wig is? Why is that not between the woman her and her rabbi and you just teach the hair is to be covered and let the shul direct the details? Maybe every shul needs two classrooms and two teachers. One for all boys and one all girls and go back to one room schoolhouse days? It just seems set up to be complicated for the sake of being complicated. Some schools allow internet so those kids parents could get their kids in an online class to supplement but not all allow.
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No he starts out by saying yes it’s less than the secular world. That way he can avoid the issue of how little English math and sciences are covered. He addresses it as outsiders criticizing. Yet he pushes back on the parent with the kids in the system who sued for change. Yet he pushes back on the adult kids of this system describing it as inadequate. Inadequate is different than less than. These are not outsiders. What they did was tell outsiders. And he is trying to say it’s only outsiders cause it’s against jewish law, you can’t bash fellow Jews. Or perhaps he considers them outsiders cause they stirred the pot and no doubt some have been pushed out of the community. Homeschool, private schools need to give attention to similar subjects. Then there is the corporal punishment issue. A person through school in an English speaking country with no ability to speak and read English is a problem. What really worries me is the special need kids. What is boggling to me is Torah and Talmud are life long studies. Why can’t three hours a day in a 5 or more instruction hour school day cover math and English under the age of 17? If they have math and English then they can learn anything else should the need arise within or outside the community when they reach majority. Not everyone is a scholar. Even if they study a lot. Plenty of kids in secular schools have English and math as well as Spanish or French or Chinese. The criticism isn’t lack of music and art or addition of Hebrew and inclusion of Yiddish, it’s the lack of English and math.
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@FriedaVizelBrooklyn if they had less kids they would have assistance over a shorter period of time. A baby is a blessing. The schools insist on too big a bit out of the family budget, excessive amounts from those who manage to do well with a business. All they have offer those paying is the satisfaction and approval of those receiving the money. They are not getting their money’s worth. It almost seems like MLM. Instead of the pyramid scheme where you get people to sell the stuff and they get people to sell the stuff and you get a cut they have done this with reproduction. You send your 3 boys to that school and your 2 girls to that other school. They send their 10 boys and 15 daughters to that school, they send their 20 girls and 30 boys… Has anyone really looked at the money? Why is it homeschooling hasn’t taken off? There should not be an excessive cost to being Jewish or being anything else in particular. Have to live in a certain area, have to be in walking distance to shul, have to buy more expensive food, have to live below a certain floor to observe Shabbat and have to send to certain schools, have to live in walking distance to grocery store cause your sect doesn’t allow women to drive, have to wear a shorter wig cause the school that accepted your child doesn’t allow a long one. It is a wonder more don’t leave. It should not cost twice as much with half the earning potential to live this way. All these things on the surface are picky and nothing to do with character or God. It does sound beautiful and a lovely bubble if you fit in.
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@Tali5899 to legally homeschool in the US you show have to spent a certain number of hours a day on subjects that would be taught in a public school. That is what I mean by that comment. Whether a mosque or Catholic school or Jewish school you need to show you are spending a certain number of hours on English and math in the US. Which is the complaint of the current and former people within the community are saying in the article. Some should have passed the math and English. Math and English are really then only subjects that matter. They take years of study building up concept on each other. You can not just start math at 18. Most science work depends on it. All university work and most jobs require English or Spanish. That also takes years.
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@Tali5899 a kid could not get a job in a grocery store checking people out with the English skills they do not have. If every family of 10 kids had 1 kid go otd then 10% of the students in your system need English and Math. Basically they are kept from the skills so they do not leave cause they will not be able to find a job and will not be able to study for one. Got it.
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@Tali5899 no need for government funding then for grants or for transportation.
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@Tali5899 I get email notifications then the comment vanishes when I get here. No more funding. The entire point is to be employable in or out of the community. The entire point is the gov with funds says you need to comparable time to the basic subjects they would get im public education. Even homeschoolers are kept to this standard. As are all private parochial schools. 12 hours at age 12 at school! Plus transit. If I were reborn into this community I would pray I were born a girl. Why can’t the kids get out at 3 and learn a few hours at home with brothers and dad? The family is the core of everything. Community and faith. Someone did something to be extra pious a few generations ago and everyone followed.
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@Tali5899 if they gave them a break, maybe? I worked as a children’s librarian so know a bit about homeschooling, public school and parochial school. Yes homeschooling gets more done a day than at a brick and mortar classroom. Less time wasted on classroom management, taking more time to explain again for the kids who did not get it the first time, less busywork given you are teaching a crowd in a classroom. Different learning styles in a group. At home you use the one that works. And family is the focus.
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@beans4853 men also have a commandment to support their families, produce offspring to more than replace them. Perhaps more science education will prove eating fish and meat at the same time is not poisonous so a woman and her kids do not have to wash extra plates needing separate ones and similarly further the study they are already doing. If men could do nothing else there would be no one to certified food is Kosher. You can spend time in the day and time the evening and do all the time sensitive prayers and do a science unit regularly. Let us be fair. Generations ago boys and men did not have this schedule. These things added on to impress to the point of breaking. Who is impressed at this point?
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@beans4853 I see.
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@ORITHESIGMA they need time to learn it is not about motivation.
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@ORITHESIGMA observance and history and language and scriptures are important. But so is English and Math. So is having a few hours for other things.
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Perhaps your perspective of right wing is off? There is a lot of antisemitism in the American Democratic Party. I am perfectly fine with 6 million Jewish people and 3 million Muslims, Christian’s, etc living in Israel. The squad wants it be Jordan again. Senator Schumer praised Trump for moving the embassy to Jerusalem. People in the same party can present publicly two opposite opinions. What news channel are you watching that you think conservative people want people exterminated? They are not the abortion party. It’s not a glob of tissue. Make the person no longer human and they let you do all sorts of horrible things. Exactly what the Nazi’s did. It’s why the Muslims could enslave the Christian’s, the English enslave the Africans, etc.. they declared them less than human and that is what they did with a child inside the womb it was a glob of tissue in the 60’s and 70’s. Ultrasound performed on typical pregnancies with no red flags with image presented to the mom regularly from 90’s..
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