Comments by "Sebastian Nolte" (@sebastiannolte1201) on "Vox"
channel.
-
6
-
5
-
5
-
4
-
4
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
First of all, your argument with the spinning is of course ridiculous. You deny the existence of Newtons first law of motion, although we experience it in every day life all the time. Imagine you are flying in a big transportation aircraft with 500mph. Now you draw in the back end of the plane a circle on the floor and write "Los Angeles" in it. And at the front of the plane you draw a circle on the floor and write "New York" into it. Now you have a drone or a little R/C-airplane. And you fly from "Los Angeles" to "New York", so inside the big aircraft, while it is flying with 500mph. Do you think it makes any difference if you fly from "LA" to "NY" or from "NY" to "LA"? No, of course not. It is completely irrelvent, if the big transportation airplane is flying at all. But I don't want to discuss about the spinning or anything else concerning the world view, just about the shape of the earth.
And you still have absolutly no idea about the impact that wrong maps would have. If you come to a new city and you buy a city map, do you really think "Oh, I guess I just have to believe that the map is true, but I have no possibilty to find out if it actually looks like that"? I don't think so. Instead you can say "I am hungry, according to the map, there is one McDonalds when I go to left in 3km, and another one when I go to the right in only". And you can go there, and you can estimate how long you will walk. And you would notice if the left one would be closer than the right one - and then you would know that the map is wrong. And you can do it for all maps of course, not only for city maps, but for larger scales. I really wonder at which point flat earthers stop to say "This map is correct and we would find out if it was wrong" and start to say "We can only trust the authorities but we cannot find out if the map is true". It makes no sense to distinguish in that way. Take Google Earth and zoom so strong into it that you see streets in a city. So at this point you believe that it is correct, right? So now you zoom out. At which point to you think it suddenly become wrong? How should that work?
You mention pilots, but what about the airlines? Who prevents you from working at an airline and come into the position where people decide, which routes they will offer? Who prevents you from starting an airline? Or a travel office that charters airplanes? What about all the logistic companies who run container ships all around the earth? What about all the private people who just travel the earth with ships and airplanes by themselves? What about the particpants of the Vendee Globe?
Do the companies that sell maps of cities or countries think "I hope people will never actually use these maps, and just look at them instead"? No, that would be ridiculous. And in the same way it would be ridiculous to think that the "elites" presents us the globe and say "I hope they will never actually use the globe, because then they would notice, that it is not an actual model of the earth".
But as flat earthers are religious fanatics (and that doesn't have do mean, that they really are religious in a typical way, "flat earth" itself can be the religion) it doesn't make sense to actually debate with them. They claim that they want to find out the truth. But that is wrong, they don't want the truth. Instead, they WANT that they earth is not a globe. They WANT that there is a big conspiracy. But the good thing is: We just have to wait. I really like it, that the FE community is grwowing, and I hope that they organize better. BEcause then they don't have an excuses for not doing actual research. So charter ships and airplanes and fly around the earth to find out, how it really looks. I am just waiting for a working flat earth map. Airlines, Logistic companies and travellers will be happy to see, that they did not use the shortest routes until now, because they uses the wrong maps all the time.
Another good Idea is: How about debunking the system from the inside? How about go to a university and study aerospace engineering? According to flkat earthers, they would be the first one who actually would use the knowledge that you get there. They realyl think, that students there learn how rockets works, but all the students sit there and just think "Oh, interesting", but nobody actually wants to build rockets later.
But I am afraid that they will not do it. They prefer to stay in the victim role, sit at home and say "They are all lying to us!!!"
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
@Faith5883 "We probably do know the distance between two cities."
So you agree that the official distance, that I measure on a globe, are correct. Which means, that earth is a sphere. Period. It is that simple.
"The flight patterns have been debunked by pilots that know the earth is flat. So I suggest you ask one those pilots. I am not one. "
Bullshit. And why only pilots? How about logistic companies? Private travellers? The earth is at it is , open to everybody, has been travelled by anybody. The idea that there is some elite group that has other information is ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Because it cannot be hidden.
"Does water find it's own level?"
No, not without forces. Have you ever seen water in weightlessness, so in a zero-G plane? It forms a sphere. Gravity is the reason why it is parallel to the ground.
"and the water would fly off a spinning earth.."
Have you ever calculated the centrifugal force of the earth? Probably not, isntead you just blindly believe anything that you see in Flat earth videos. You don't do research, you don't make calculations, you don't think for yourself. You learn how to calculatue centrifugal forces in middle school. Or just look it up online. I have done that. It is extremly low. At the equator a 100 kg Object just becomes about 300 g "lighter" because of the rotation of the earth (I would not use the word "spinning"; because one rotation within 24 hours is very slow). Or another comparison: The centrifugal force at the equator is so low, as you would drive with 100 km/h in a car on a circular race track that hass an diameter of 44 km.
"that is also spinning around the sun, jetting through space at unimaginable speeds. "
Yes, so? You know that we cannot feel speed, and that we cannot even measure absolute speed?
"e have NO photos at all of the "globe" none."
You just blidnly believe all the lies in Flat earth videos, e.g. that there are no photos. Of course there are. Thousands. And we get more all the time, because e.g. the japanese weather satellite Himawari 8 sends a photo of the earth every ten minutes. But you just believe the lie, that all photos are fake, without any evidence.
"So there is no proof at all that it is a ball except to take the word of the liars at NASA."
Bullshit. People know the earth is a sphere since more than 2000 years. We had accurate globes (so that looks more or less like modern ones) in our living rooms, already decades before NASA has shown us the first photo of the earth from space. How do you come to the absurd idea, that we need to see earth from high above, to kno how it looks like? Do you need to see a city from high above, if you want to create a city map? No. So why do you think, that you need to see the earth from high above, when you want to create a world map?
Watch a sunset at the beach. What you see there only works on a globe. But you are so indoctrinated by Flat Earth videos, that you really would describe it as "The sun moves away, and finally it is so far away that we cannot see it anymore". Although that is completly against your own senses. But you don't trust them, instead you believe in Youtube videos.
"I am sure you are a really nice person and I am sorry to sound... not so nice,"
I just wanted to write exactly the same :-)
"not so nice, but I have researched this now since 2014... in 2015 I had to concede to the earth not being a ball. "
Watching youtube videos is not "research". The problem is, that you guys always say "Research flat earth" - but I recommend you to research globe earth. And haven't you noticed, that all flat earthers started in that time? You just follow a trend!
Imagine somebody would have just tell you, that earth is not a sphere, and that you should just think about it and do research. But there were no Flat earth videos and websites. Be honest: Which would be your arguments in that case? Which ideas would come actually from yourself, so by your own research and thinking? Can you tell me at least one argument, that I don't find in Eric Dubays "200 proofs"? Or the other way around: Is there at least one thing in his "proofs", where you say, that he is completly wrong there, or that he is lying in that point? I just don't find original flat earthers with own ideas and with actual critical thinking. I always just hear "Water always find its level... there is no gravity, but only density and buoyancy... there are no real photos of the earth from space... bubbles in space... the Antarctic treaty prevents people from going to Antarctica.... Sunset/Polaris/... is all exlaines by perspective....". Flat earthers just parrot what they see in youtube videos, they don't question it, the don't validate it, they don't calculate things,...
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
No, it is an important information. I am only surprised that it seems new to so many people here , you should learn that in geography in school. And actually, when your visual thinking is not that bad, it is just logical, that it is not possible to map the surface of a sphere on a 2D-map without gaps or distortion. This all has nothing to do with time periods, technology, or accuracy.
And you have to care. Many flat earthers don't understand it. As an argument they use a case of a flight from Manila to Los Angeles, that made an emergency landing in Alaska. And they say, that on the "Globe Map" (they mean a Mercator projection) it would not make sense, while on the "flat earth map" (they mean a polar azimuthal equidistant projection) it makes sense. But actually Alaska is the closest land when you are in the middle of the ocean between Manila and L.A.
Also many "non-flat earthers" wonder, why airplanes seem to make a curve to the north, so e.g. that Los Angeles - London flies over Greenland. And then some say, that it is for security reasons, so that they don't want to fly to long over open water. But that is wrong. The direct connection from Los Angeles to London is actually over Greenland. On the Mercator projection you get the impression, that when to cities are on the same latitude, the shortest way would be along the latitude. But that is wrong (expect for the equator).
1
-
John Jordan: You are correct, we feel the change of motion, but:
1. The earth rotates with 1000mph continuosly. So no change in speed.
2. It rotates, so yes, there is a change of direction. So there is a centrifugal force, that we can measure and feel. But first, it is weak, just 3.3 N for a 100kg person. And second, it is just opposed to gravity. So it just reduces the earth's pull force. If you would live your whole life in an elevator, that accelerates continiosly with 0.1G up, then you wouldn't know, that you are in an accelerating elevator. Because then you think, that 1.1G is the normal earth's pull instead of 1G.
BTW, do you have anyting to say to my last comment about nthe NY-LA-flight and the maps?
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
"but how oblate is it? "
Why don't you just look it up? Already in 1740 there were expiditions to Peru and North Scandivia to measure the radius of the earth, and they measured 6,379,500 m at the equator and 6,349,800 m at the poles. The last official model is the Geodetic Reference System from 1980 with 6,378,137.0 m at the equator and 6,356,752.314 m at the poles.
"All the photos I've seen from NASA, everything I can find shows a very spherical earth with no visible bulging. "
As you see above, the oblation is very weak. You don't see that on most photos.
"Are there any photos of earth that show the earth as oblate?"
The japanese weather satellite Himwari 8 sends a picture of the earth every ten minutes. They have a very high resolution and I have read, that you can measure the oblate. I have never tried it.
" Or is it very minor, so minute that it can't be detected in a photograph?"
More or less: Yes. You need a high resolution photo.
1
-
1
-
I don't know if your comment is ment to be ironic, but I'll take it serious here:
a) Please do some research about history. You mix up two different things: The shape of the earth and the heliocentric model. Already in ancient greece (so more then 2000 years ago) people had the idea, that the earth probably is a sphere. I mean, it is quite obvious, when you make some simple observations like a sunset. But still people believed, that the sphere-shaped earth is the center of the universe, and the sun and all the stars revolve around it. Copernicus was the first one who changed that.
b) Learn how science works. It does NOT mean, that somebody claims something, and then we believe him because he is a "scientist". Instead, scientis discover things, that are just there, and that would have been discovered sooner or later by anybody else. So anybody can make the same observations like the one who did it first. That means: You can make the same observations that Copernicus did. So for example observe the movement of Mars and find out, that it makes some weird loops at the sky. And that these observations make much more sense, when the Earth and the Mars both move around the sun.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
So people travel around the world since hundred of years. With ships, airplanes, cars, trains etc. And you really want to say that it is not possible for us to find out the actual distance between two cities? That some "elites" prevents us from doing so? That all airlines, logistic companies, pilots, orivate travelleers... are part of the conspiracy?
I wonder how you go around. So according to you, all official maps are wrong. Well, we "globies" just use the maps and they work. And can look on a map, measure how far it is from A to B, and know how long a trip will take. Isn't it sad that flat earthers cannot do such simple things, because they don't have a working map?
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
" just know that real science proves it is not a globe."
Wrong, everthing proves that it is a globe.
"Not sure how your not getting that we can’t make a flat/paper map from an imaginary fairytale globe map?"
But we can make a "map" of the earth and by that we will see, that it has to be a sphere.
" I am not saying I believe in the flat earth maps but if they are true they explain why some trips Take ignorant flight paths to get to places because that isn’t the true path their taking."
There are no strange flight trips. Instead, all flight times matches with the distances that we measure on the globe. Can we assume that airlines try to take the shortest connection between two cities? If yes, than the earth is a sphere. It is that simple. There is no flat earth map where it makes sense, that a flight Sydney-Santiago takes about the same time as Tokyo-Atlanta. But it makes complete sense on the globe, because there the distances are similar. And nobody is prevented from travelling the earth to find it out for yourselfl. Thousnads of people, airlines, logistic companies, private travellers,... uses the official maps everday, and obviously they work. Nobody has found problems with it. They need correct maps, because they need to know, how long a trip will take, how much fuel they need etc.
"Please explain to me why we can see the bottom of things all over the world that we shouldn’t even be able to see the top if their was a curvature to the earth. "
That is wrong. We can disuss about the actual curvature in such situations, but that depends on two many things. It is funny that this guy wants to prove the earth is flat with this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxK849eOmOM
He says, that at that distance you would not see the wind turbines at all. But he seems to ignore, that you only see the top of them, while the bottom is cut off.
"Also how do planes, submarines rail road tracks not have to adjust for the curvature "
How do you know, that they don't have to?
You fell for too man arguments of the flat earthers, that are just wrong or doesn't really matter. And like the flat earthers you ignore the simple thing, that we have travelled the earth, and THAT is the reason, why we know, how it looks like. Do you also believe the lies of them, that it ios not allowed to go to Antarctica and that there are no flights across it?
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
Nobody decided, that the sky is blue. Nobody decided, that the days in the winter are shorter. Nobody decided that water boils at 100° C. And nobody decided, that the earth is a sphere. And people came to that conclusion already more than 2000 years ago. You just have to observe a sunset. The sun keeps its size and its speed, it sets as a full circle. That only works on a spherical earth.
But we also can do it the other way around. Let's say, we don't know, which shape the earth has. We just want to make a map. So we travel around. So for exampel we have a boat that has a certain speed. And we travel along the antarctic ice wall. When we come back to the point where we have startet, we know how long that ice wall is, because we know how fast our boat is and how long we have travelled. And together with all the land mass, that we have measured, we now try to make a map. And we will see: We HAVE to make the map threedimensional. It only works, when we make it on the surface of the sphere. And meanwhile it is easy and we have planes.
So actually it is not even important if the people centuries ago actually knew what they did. Maybe the "proofs" of the people in ancient Greece were no proofs. Maybe somebody centuries ago just claimed that the earth is a sphere, without any proof, and we just believed it. But then he accidently was correct.
1
-
"there is no proof that the earth moves or is anything other than a plane"
I have give you proof several times and you just ignore it. You don't even try to explain, why you think these are no proofs. So you are not interested in a debate.
While you don't have any proof, that the earth is flat.
And I ask you again: Give me a proof that the official maps are wrong and show me a correct map instead. Even if I have never thought about any proofs of a globe and only believe it, because I was told so, I can just use it and it works. When I live in Sydney and want to know, if it was faster if I fly to Dallas or to Santiago, then I can just take a globe of the shelf and check it out. Without going to the internet or asking at a travellers office. And it will be correct. No you come and say: "The globe is wrong, you cannot do that!" and then I say "well, I don't know, at least in this case it works. Do you have a better map?" And you say "No". Or mabye you even show me the AE map. But accoding to that, the Dallas is closer than Santiago. So the map is obviously wrong. Why should I take you serious?
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1