Comments by "Sebastian Nolte" (@sebastiannolte1201) on "VICE News"
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@penelopepitstoppp
"Get your face out of your phone and LOOK UP, look ALL around. THINK."
I totally agree, so that is a good recommendation. Observe a sunset at the beach and think about it. What you see there is not possible on a flat earth (well, it would, when it is a disc and the edge is at the horizon, but that is obviously not the case). When you go to a high tower you see the sunset again, so it is later there. That also would not happen on a flat earth. An yes, people in the past had no smart devices, internet or TV. So they observed the sky, so for example the movement of the planets. And they observed, that they make weird movements, so changing speed and make loops, which doesn't make much sense for a natural motion. But when you instead think, that not the earth is the center, but the sun and the planets and the earth move around the sun, it makes much more sense, because then they move constantly. So observation and thinking brings us to the heliocentric model.
It is really funny that you recommend other people to "Go outside and get your face out of your phone and LOOK UP, look ALL around. " While your world view is not based on that. Instead your world view is based on an old book and on youtube videos.
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You don't get the point. It is not about seeing it "flat" or "curved", it is about the distances. Let's say I live at a very long street, and when I leave my house and go to the left, I will come to a McDonalds, when I go right, there is a Burger King. When I look on the map, McDonalds is closer to to me than the Burger King. But when I walk to McDonalds I need 15 minutes, when I walk to Burger KIng it only takes 5 minutes. What does that mean? That the map is wrong! And I can walk with a mileage counter and can measure the actual distances. And I can do it with the lenght of all streets, the distances between buildings etc to create a map of the city.
And I can do it for the entire earth, and people have done that for centuries. And the simple thing, that many seems to forget is, that you cannot project the surface of a sphere onto a flat plane without gaps or without distortion (or the other way around). Most flat earthers say, that the earth looks about like this: https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/application/files/thumbnails/small/4514/6118/3813/Flat_earth.jpg
Look at Australia and Compare it with Australia on the globe. Don't you think that it is possible to find out, if Australia has that shape? For example by just make roadtrips through it, from north to south, and west to east, and see how long it takes (or what the milegae counter in my car says). Then there are some maps with this style, but with a "correct" shape of australia. But that doesn't really help, becuase the shape of the oceans is still wrong.
"as for earth if one sailed to make a complete circle around the earth. couldnt tell if it was flat or round."
But the point is: He could tell how long his trip was, and that's what it is all about. Flat earthers argue, that it is not allowed to go alone through Antarctica and there are no flights across it (which is a lie, but let's believe them for this moment). So they think, that Antartica is not a continent, but instead just the icewall, that you see on the flat earth map. But they don't realize, that you can sail along the icewall to find out how long it is. And that is the only information you need.
When we assume that airlines don't want to waste money, then they will try to fly from city to city on a stright line, so they use the shortest connection. Than we can use flight times as a measurement for distances. Look for flighttimes in the southern and northern hemisphere (e.g. Sydney-Santiago-Sao Paulo-Johannesburg-Perth-Sydney and LA-NewYork-Frankfurt-Tokyo-Honuluu-LA and some north/south-connections). Then try create a flat earth map with these data, with the scale "one hour flight time equals 1cm on the map". It will not work. But it will work on the surface of a sphere. A flight from Sydney to Santiago takes about the same time as Tokyo-Atlanta. I haven't seen a flat earth map, where that does make any sense.
Or let's make a google maps/Google Earth like project by using airplanes. So we fly across the entire earth and make photos from the ground (we can leave out Antarctica for that). And then we puzzle all these pictures together for a complete earth photo - it will not work on a flat plane, only on the surface of a sphere.
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Why do you think, that we need to see the earth from space, if we want to know how it looks like? That doesn't make any sense. We had accurate globes in our living rooms already decades before NASA shown us the first picture of the earth made from outer space. If you want to create or check a city map, do you have to see the city from high above? No. You just can walk/go/drive through the streets and measure the lenghts of streets, the distances between buildings etc. So why do you think that we need to see the earth from far away when we want to create a world map? When you really think, that we cannot find out down here, if the earth is really a sphere, then you think, that we cannot find out the actual distances between two cities. You think that all maps could be wrong and nobody would notice it.
Besides that, you just have to observe a sunset at the beach to know, that the earth cannot be flat.
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@penelopepitstoppp "have you measured the force of gravity? "
Are you serious? Everybody has a measuring tool for gravity at home, for example in your kitchen. It is called "scale". An object with a mass of 1 kg is pulled with a force of 9.8 N to the ground. That is a simple fact. You can measure and feel it. But that could be just an "earth's pull force", so not gravity. However, the cavendish experiment, where you can see, that also small object attract each other, is a standard exprmient that students at a university make and that you can do at home.
Let me guess, you think it is all about "density and buoyancy"? If yes, then you just show that like nearly all flat earthers you don't think for yourself, but just parrot what you have seen in flat earth videos. Even if you come up by yourself or because of the bible, that the earth is flat - there is absolutly no reason to deny an earth's pull force. Can you please construct a roller coaster that works, so where you can calculate the forces that affects on you and on the construction (so what an enginer does), but ignoring gravity and instead just use "density"?
"Have you gone to "space"?"
We live in space, so yes. But porbably ou mean "outside the atmosphere"? Well, not me, but why shouldn't it be possible to reach a certain altitude? The air obviously becomes thinner the higher you go, that is a simple fact. The problem is that you guys think, that space is something special. You instead claim that there is a dome. Have you been there and touch it? Can you tell me where it is? Do you have any evidence for its existence? The burden of proof is on you.
"Has anyone you know personally ever traveled outside of low earth orbit? "
Oh, now "outside LEO" is your criteria? Actually the Apollo missions were the only times where humans left LEO. So if you just would be an "moon landing denier" it would be an argment, but as a flat earther it doesn't make sense. So you think that it is possible to go into orbit, but only into low earth orbit? OK, then you accpet that earth is a sphere.But I am afraid you don't even know what "orbit" means.
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@penelopepitstoppp " The beauty of the simple truth is that it is simple. "
Wow, I think here is something that we agree on in a way! There is also a similar principle in science called "Ockham's razor": The simplest solution is usually the correct one. And if that is the case, then Globe earth wins over flat earth!
Newtons three laws of motion and gravity are really simple laws, that describe most things that we see in our everyday life. These laws are used by engineers since centuries, and thanks to them we have all the inventions that we have today. And they are universal, that is the point of science. So we can calculate the trajectory of a cannonball by using the same laws as we use to calculate the movements of celestial bodies, so can also predict events like eclipses. But flat earth on the other hand is totally complicated, becasue everything is special there. The earth is something special, the sun is something special, the moon, the stars... They all follow different rules, and you have no idea what these rules are. We can take a globe and a light source, and can simulate night and day, we can see where night and day on earth is, it works, it matches with reality. So our model of the universe is very simple. But look at the sun on flat earth. It has to be a light source, that looks like a perfect circle all the time from all places on earth. But that works like a spot light, with a very weird, special focus, so that it only enlightens a certain part of the earth is a very specific way. That is overly complicated and there is no model in a smaller scale that works like that.
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