Ficus-lovin\x27 Capybara N\x27 pals • 🌟 • 25 yrs ago
More Perfect Union
comments
Comments by "Ficus-lovin\x27 Capybara N\x27 pals • 🌟 • 25 yrs ago" (@YourCapybaraAmigo_17yrsago) on "I Build Cars For a Living. I Can’t Afford to Buy One." video.
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The problem is that every corporation sees workers as slaves and property and they want to keep the vast majority of the profit they make to themselves, their top executives, and their shareholders. Nobody else.
Even those wages and the giveaways that the gentleman at 2:00 what's discussing was nothing but a crumb off of the masters table. I know to him it seemed like a nice gesture and a sizable award, but it was still next to nothing compared to the overall largest and profit that company had made that year. Even back then the company was taken advantage of and stiffing their workers, it just didn't seem that way to that guy because his usual we've all been socialized to accept so little and so when they give just a little bit more than we expect we suddenly feel like the heavens have shined upon us. I mean in the 90s $15 an hour STILL wasn't very much. I guess the cost of living where he lived was low so he could have a reasonable standard of living on that, but the truth is, even back then he was taking it raw from the company. The executives were making six and seven figure paychecks while he was barely topping out at $30 or 50K a year IF he was lucky. So even back in the good old days it WASN'T that good- it was still highway robbery. These corporations will NEVER treat you right or give you anything more than crumbs unless they are legally forced too. It's ALWAYS been a scam. It's always been a criminal enterprise, from Day 1.
Even though the workers are 99% of the reason why the company is successful and profitable, by some sick twist of logic corporate bigwigs don't think workers deserve anything. The workers do almost everything. The c-suite is dependent upon the workers, and yet the workers are the first to go out the window when they need to make "cutbacks". These places just see workers as their objects, as their meat robots to be used as needed and thrown away when necessary. They're angry they even have to pay them at all.
They have this sociopathic sense of entitlement that tells them that they're entitled to everything, and the workers are just something that they have to use in order to get it, but in reality if the world was fair to the poor suffering business owner, then they would bring slavery back so they (corporate boss) could get their labor for free again which is what they really want.
Because even though the collective efforts of their employee base is the ONLY reason the company exists and is staying alive, somehow the company brass who lives off of these selfsame producers doesn't feel they (workers) deserve to see the profits their work has generated.
Everybody else in a company is literally a parasite, wholly dependent on the collective body of the workers, including the upper management, and yet company ownership rarely if ever feels they deserve to be compensated accordingly.
Such is the crime and the gangster nature of every large corporation.
A large company is nothing more than organized crime masquerading as a legal entity.
Its workers are robbed blind everyday and everyone else runs off with the loot. Since this is legal it's considered fair and just; or at least, that's what they keep trying to make us believe. Apparently their constant non-stop brainwashing efforts in western society have yielded great results. Every time we talk about Labor Justice it never fails to provoke one of the brainwashed dogs piping up in opposition- and you just know that fool is either unemployed or makes shit money. The only difference is, we have enough self-respect to know when we're getting fucked, and the other guy seems to love it, as he doesn't seem to want better for himself or for his fellow workers/professionals out here.
In a just world, this would never happen (corporate abuse) because it would be seen for what it is, massive robbery, but there's some kind of evil spirit or dark magic that holds this world together and the good guys don't rule here, the criminals do; the users, the killers, the exploiters, and so on; and all Western governments seem to serve this goal. Hopefully that won't always be true, but that certainly true today, and it's been true for a long time. I mean any so-called divine power didn't seem to care that the new world was being plundered and centuries of slavery and all kinds of crimes against humanity were being happily carried out by many powerful interests; as they are today still.
If by chance we can get real leftists into office we can start instituting hard and fast labor laws that can mandate labor protections of all sorts, but until we do this kind of nonsense will just continue.
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I'm really sorry that happened to you, but you should feel good that you stood up for yourself. And once you got back on your feet you should have tried to find an employment lawyer, and sued them. Perhaps your friend would have been willing to work on contingency.
I'm sorry your other friend chose to work 20 years for some place where he's being exploited and used. I'd rather flip a burgers than tolerate that for five minutes. If that company wants to close their plants so much, the employee should force their hand.
It's almost always a bluff.
I would rather go hungry and live out of my car then be a slave.
If I'm not treated with dignity in the workplace I won't work their simple as that. My pride and my dignity mean more to me than all the money in the universe.
I'll never work somewhere where I'm treated like a slave or like shit. Sometimes I think people just like to suffer.
There are so many other options in life than putting up with that. Your friend chose his fate. The company is mistreating him, but like a battered wife he sticks around. That's his choice. The more people choose to accept that kind of treatment, that just tells the company that they can get away with it. It just reinforces that bad behavior. If everybody quit and nobody tolerated that well guess what the company would be forced to change.
It would be nice if the government and the laws were on our side, but they're not. And nobody wants to come out as a communist or socialist so nothing's going to change. Do you know that by voting Republican or Democrat this is exactly what we asking for?? You think either of those Thugs and those parties give a flying F about the working man? If you believe that I got some waterfront property in Arizona to sell you.
By being weak, fearful and ignorant, we decide our future. We vote for the same corporate-protecting parties and wonder why nothing ever changes in public policy. We do this to ourselves. We accept these atrocious conditions at work and then complain about them as if we deserve sympathy.
But we don't become communist or socialist and organize for better. We don't walk away. We don't accept responsibility for the fact that we have a lot to do with this by accepting this madness.
We could also try to start our own businesses. I know it's hard. I know it's not a level playing field. I know the system is against us and everything is unfair. However, if we don't even try, we only have ourselves to blame.
There are good jobs in good employers out there. If we don't even try to find an alternative, whose fault is that?
So we have a choice. Do we stick around in one of these abusive work relationships, or do we do what's necessary and find something better, weather in pay or treatment or both, no matter how long it takes? Well it's up to each person to decide that for themselves. I'm not excusing this horrible company behavior- no they shouldn't get away with it, but since they are, what are we going to do about it???? Sometimes our only option is to walk away. If a person isn't willing to do that then I'm sorry but they're choosing to accept this kind of treatment. I know I wouldn't. I'll live on the street if I have to but I won't be anyone's slave and I sure as hell won't work for peanuts.
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@lukazupie7220 for one you don't know anything about me. Two, I'm glad you could live frugally and I do know all about that. I've been doing that most of my life. Perhaps costs of living are much cheaper where you live here in the US, I'm sure they are.
I'll reiterate this to you again. In a small number of cases I'm sure people are choosing to live above their means or are not making smart choices with their money, HOWEVER, based on my life experience, my opinion, and all the information I've gathered to date, I do not believe this is the main reason why material conditions for many people where I live are getting worse. Again- this is a broad generalization. Some people are doing just fine, others are doing very well- there's always going to be a mixture of experiences. However, I live here, so you don't have to tell me how it is just as I wouldn't presume to tell you what the average experience is where you live. More and more people here are falling through the cracks or just barely managing to get by- I'm one of them and it has nothing to do with poor spending habits. I've got excellent spending habits and I've always been smart with my money. The politicians here are trash in both both mainstream parties. Covid was handled horribly and probably worse than any other place on the planet, which we have no excuse for as supposedly the resources here are among the best in the world- yeah we couldn't stop over 1M from dying from it due to lack of a capable national healthcare service and stupidity from certain groups. The amount of financial assistance provided to those affected by the disease was minimal and pathetic.
Look with enough determination and resolve a person can overcome just about anything. But you can take it from me and you don't have to only believe me, check around, the truth is that American public policy exists to serve the desires of the filthy rich and the financial elites from banking and big business. It can be a struggle even for middle-class homeowners sometimes to maintain what they have (again I could go into all the details why but that's really not necessary right now).
There are 1000 other causes for poverty and insecurity in the US that stem directly from laws and public policy as drafted by politicians who are 100% in service (paid for by generous campaign donations AKA bribes and promises of future favor) to very wealthy interests here that I could go into, but it's not really necessary. I do know what I'm talking about that's all that matters.
I can see I'm not going to change your mind but again it's just common sense. Sure, there's always an element of personal responsibility to any situation we face in life but you have to ask yourself, what is the systemic broad overarching cause of the issue that we are discussing here? And I'm trying to tell you that at least where I live, its government policy and how it doesn't serve the vast majority of us who live here. I can't speak to where you live, maybe everything's perfect by you. All I know is my experience with this general region. It's very simple. In the US government serves the big Banks and big business and nobody else. Occasionally they throw the common person a very tiny crumb but that's about it. Those of us with brains have a problem with this. It really isn't that hard to change but it's very hard getting different and better people into public office to push for those changes here, for a few reasons. That is the ongoing difficulty that those of us who have these opinions face. It shouldn't be that hard, "change public policy", but it's a lot harder than it looks. There are many many barriers here for an outsider people-first candidate to get into office. In the meantime, public voting via public ballot measures do happen every 1-4 years and can help to an extent.
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@lukazupie7220 @lukazupie7220 for one you don't know anything about me. Two, I'm glad you could live frugally and I do know all about that. I've been doing that most of my life. Perhaps costs of living are much cheaper where you live here in the US, I'm sure they are.
I'll reiterate this to you again. In a small number of cases I'm sure people are choosing to live above their means or are not making smart choices with their money, HOWEVER, based on my life experience, my opinion, and all the information I've gathered to date, I do not believe this is the main reason why material conditions for many people where I live are getting worse. Again- this is a broad generalization. Some people are doing just fine, others are doing very well- there's always going to be a mixture of experiences. However, I live here, so you don't have to tell me how it is just as I wouldn't presume to tell you what the average experience is where you live. More and more people here are falling through the cracks or just barely managing to get by- I'm one of them and it has nothing to do with poor spending habits. I've got excellent spending habits and I've always been smart with my money. The politicians here are trash in both both mainstream parties. Covid was handled horribly and probably worse than any other place on the planet, which we have no excuse for as supposedly the resources here are among the best in the world- yeah we couldn't stop over 1M from dying from it due to lack of a capable national healthcare service and stupidity from certain groups. The amount of financial assistance provided to those affected by the disease was minimal and pathetic.
Look with enough determination and resolve a person can overcome just about anything. But you can take it from me and you don't have to only believe me, check around, the truth is that American public policy exists to serve the desires of the filthy rich and the financial elites from banking and big business. It can be a struggle even for middle-class homeowners sometimes to maintain what they have (again I could go into all the details why but that's really not necessary right now).
There are 1000 other causes for poverty and insecurity in the US that stem directly from laws and public policy as drafted by politicians who are 100% in service (paid for by generous campaign donations AKA bribes and promises of future favor) to very wealthy interests here that I could go into, but it's not really necessary. I do know what I'm talking about that's all that matters.
I can see I'm not going to change your mind but again it's just common sense. Sure, there's always an element of personal responsibility to any situation we face in life but you have to ask yourself, what is the systemic broad overarching cause of the issue that we are discussing here? And I'm trying to tell you that at least where I live, its government policy and how it doesn't serve the vast majority of us who live here. I can't speak to where you live, maybe everything's perfect by you. All I know is my experience with this general region. It's very simple. In the US government serves the big Banks and big business and nobody else. Occasionally they throw the common person a very tiny crumb but that's about it. Those of us with brains have a problem with this. It really isn't that hard to change but it's very hard getting different and better people into public office to push for those changes here, for a few reasons. That is the ongoing difficulty that those of us who have these opinions face. It shouldn't be that hard, "change public policy", but it's a lot harder than it looks. There are many many barriers here for an outsider people-first candidate to get into office. In the meantime, public voting via public ballot measures do happen every 1-4 years and can help to an extent.
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Yes it must be a real struggle.
Not to get you down but everything in this country is fucked. A lot of jobs, a lot of wages, social security, all of it. I don't want you to have a bad day but the truth is I would say, 60% of people in this country are getting fucked in one way or another right now.
Government is not a positive force in this country government is a ruthless gangster that will throw us all in a pit for the big Banks and big corporate profit and they sure as hell won't help people get decent benefits if they're on public assistance. They already destroyed most welfare and what remains is pathetic and so minimal as to be useless.
The government structure in this country only serves the top 1%, both parties are the same party behind the scenes, don't believe their lies. There's not a Democrat or Republican currently live that has any intention of trying to change this.
Soap the rest of us are stuck in constant and poverty and/or insecurity. They won't bring down the cost of rent, they won't do anything. There are some housing assistance programs out there and Senior living which is usually lower cost than elsewhere, and perhaps something like that might help you, but you have to look in your area and try to find a resources may be available.
I don't mean to end on a negative but unfortunately this is where a lot of us are at right now.
I don't even think they give food stamps to those who are on social security. These people are very evil and very sick in the head. They seem to think that a person can survive perfectly fine paying for rent and food and anything else out of 700 or 900 or $1200 a month, which in most cases and most areas is impossible. And then of course if you're on disability there are low limits to how much you can have in the bank at any given time.
So. Their agenda seems to be to kill us all through slow starvation or homelessness. I guess they feel for those who reach a certain age or those that are disabled don't have a right to live anymore. I guess that's their philosophy. And of course even for those that do work a huge number of people live under the poverty line because wages are so pathetic, and rent is going up; even some professionals don't make a secure salary anymore.
Yep it's pretty sad times. I've never seen it even near this bad in all my life.
Meanwhile we're a wash and plenty, the stores have much more than they need, but instead of donating it back to their community it all goes to waste. All that food all those useful household goods, right in the trash because there are no laws against it.
We live in mad times and I don't know when it's going to get better.
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@waspwrap1235 well I don't disagree but i think that's kind of a tautology. Wealthy business owners have the most control because they buy people who are open to being bought.
We agree, but it's as if you're implying there's some other cause going on here than bribery (promises of favor, jobs, gifts, patronage, donations, etc). It's very simple. Everyone who gets into office in this country wants to serve the "Big Money" (as you say, the elite money class) because it's profitable for them. They want to take bribes. If they didn't want to take bribes, then they could not be bribed. Very simple. However, because they do want to take bribes, then those who can bribe them the most will obviously get ahead. Obviously this would include all those who represent interests of the wealthy business class and/or those with high personal wealth like billionaires.
Occasionally some law or public policy measure gets through that has some benefit for the average person but I don't see this happening too often.
This is also why I want to do away with politicians all together which sadly, won't happen in my lifetime. An elite political class is only going to serve the elite business class leaving the other 90+% of the public unrepresented.
Without direct voting on every law basically we're fucked. How can we possibly expect justice for the common person when we're held hostage by a tiny political elite that doesn't care if we live or die? They are good liars tho...that's how they keep getting re-elected. If we bought red or blue we're voting for a gun to our heads essentially. We're voting for people who do not care if we live or die. The red or blue party is a unibody/uniparty that takes its dictats from their wealthy patrons of the 1%. Do we really think they're going to serve us? It would be nice if they would but they don't.
Only direct democracy fixes this. Until the public seizes or earns the right to vote on every single public policy measure ALL the time, then the more or less status quo will just continue.
Alternatively we could create a powerful left, socialist Communist / Labor FIRST party in the US that seizes enough seats at all levels of government to make a difference and..... Yeah. Well I won't hold my breath. I think advocating locally at the county level for left policies can have a lot more effect, however, unfortunately the red-blue uniparty machine has a stranglehold on all seats at all levels of gov at this moment in time.
So if we want friendlier laws that help people live easier lives of greater dignity I see no other way forward then pushing for full public voting on everything. In fact a lot wouldn't have to change. We can keep the loser government bodies as now but in order for any measure to pass as so-called law it would have to be ratified through a full public referendum. Also, anybody or any organization should be able to suggest a policy or change to law. There should be a process before it gets to the ballot, perhaps a preliminary public voting and debate session, but yes.
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@waspwrap1235 well I don't disagree but i think that's kind of a tautology. Wealthy business owners have the most control because they buy people who are open to being bought.
We agree, but it's as if you're implying there's some other cause going on here than bribery (promises of favor, jobs, gifts, patronage, donations, etc). It's very simple. Everyone who gets into office in this country wants to serve the "Big Money" (as you say, the elite money class) because it's profitable for them. They want to take bribes. If they didn't want to take bribes, then they could not be bribed. Very simple. However, because they do want to take bribes, then those who can bribe them the most will obviously get ahead. Obviously this would include all those who represent interests of the wealthy business class and/or those with high personal wealth like billionaires.
Occasionally some law or public policy measure gets through that has some benefit for the average person but I don't see this happening too often.
This is also why I want to do away with politicians all together which sadly, won't happen in my lifetime. An elite political class is only going to serve the elite business class leaving the other 90+% of the public unrepresented.
Without direct voting on every law basically we're fucked. How can we possibly expect justice for the common person when we're held hostage by a tiny political elite that doesn't care if we live or die? They are good liars tho...that's how they keep getting re-elected. If we bought red or blue we're voting for a gun to our heads essentially. We're voting for people who do not care if we live or die. The red or blue party is a unibody/uniparty that takes its dictats from their wealthy patrons of the 1%. Do we really think they're going to serve us? It would be nice if they would but they don't.
Only direct democracy fixes this. Until the public seizes or earns the right to vote on every single public policy measure ALL the time, then the more or less status quo will just continue.
Alternatively we could create a powerful left, socialist Communist / Labor FIRST party in the US that seizes enough seats at all levels of government to make a difference and..... Yeah. Well I won't hold my breath. I think advocating locally at the county level for left policies can have a lot more effect, however, unfortunately the red-blue uniparty machine has a stranglehold on all seats at all levels of gov at this moment in time.
So if we want friendlier laws that help people live easier lives of greater dignity I see no other way forward then pushing for full public voting on everything. In fact a lot wouldn't have to change. We can keep the loser government bodies as now but in order for any measure to pass as so-called law it would have to be ratified through a full public referendum. Also, anybody or any organization should be able to suggest a policy or change to law. There should be a process before it gets to the ballot, perhaps a preliminary public voting and debate session, but yes.
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@waspwrap1235 @waspwrap1235 well I don't disagree but i think that's kind of a tautology. Wealthy business owners have the most control because they buy people who are open to being bought.
We agree, but it's as if you're implying there's some other cause going on here than bribery (promises of favor, jobs, gifts, patronage, donations, etc). It's very simple. Everyone who gets into office in this country wants to serve the "Big Money" (as you say, the elite money class) because it's profitable for them. They want to take bribes. If they didn't want to take bribes, then they could not be bribed. Very simple. However, because they do want to take bribes, then those who can bribe them the most will obviously get ahead. Obviously this would include all those who represent interests of the wealthy business class and/or those with high personal wealth like billionaires.
Occasionally some law or public policy measure gets through that has some benefit for the average person but I don't see this happening too often.
This is also why I want to do away with politicians all together which sadly, won't happen in my lifetime. An elite political class is only going to serve the elite business class leaving the other 90+% of the public unrepresented.
Without direct voting on every law basically we're fucked. How can we possibly expect justice for the common person when we're held hostage by a tiny political elite that doesn't care if we live or die? They are good liars tho...that's how they keep getting re-elected. If we bought red or blue we're voting for a gun to our heads essentially. We're voting for people who do not care if we live or die. The red or blue party is a unibody/uniparty that takes its dictats from their wealthy patrons of the 1%. Do we really think they're going to serve us? It would be nice if they would but they don't.
Only direct democracy fixes this. Until the public seizes or earns the right to vote on every single public policy measure ALL the time, then the more or less status quo will just continue.
Alternatively we could create a powerful left, socialist Communist / Labor FIRST party in the US that seizes enough seats at all levels of government to make a difference and..... Yeah. Well I won't hold my breath. I think advocating locally at the county level for left policies can have a lot more effect, however, unfortunately the red-blue uniparty machine has a stranglehold on all seats at all levels of gov at this moment in time.
So if we want friendlier laws that help people live easier lives of greater dignity I see no other way forward then pushing for full public voting on everything. In fact a lot wouldn't have to change. We can keep the loser government bodies as now but in order for any measure to pass as so-called law it would have to be ratified through a full public referendum. Also, anybody or any organization should be able to suggest a policy or change to law. There should be a process before it gets to the ballot, perhaps a preliminary public voting and debate session, but yes.
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I talked to one person who tried to justify this exact pov, saying "what do you expect? The company doesn't exist to adopt you it exists to pay you a wage."
And yes, that's true, but usually these wages are piss poor and come with few to no benefits unless you are a higher level professional.
We have no protections against sudden or automatic layoffs, no guarantees of severance, piss-poor sick days, unfair attendance policies, no protection against unfair firings, I mean it's literally indentured servitude today. Not everywhere, but a lot.
Unfortunately our human rights don't matter to the politicians in this country as both parties are shamelessly owned and operated by this self-same large corporate class.
This person I was debating with didn't seem to understand why all job positions, including the rank and file, everyone, deserved to make a decent livable wage under good conditions. We didn't get around to talking about workplace safety and a positive work environment, although I imagine his attitude would have been the same.
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The best contract that unions will be able to extract will pale in comparison to what the law will demand if we could ever get anyone elected in this crazy 10th-world s-hole that cared about working people.
It's going to be hard, but labor laws is what it's going to take. I appreciate unions that try to help, but what they get is crap. 25% raise..... Over four years????
I mean I don't know maybe I'm just the one that's out there but that doesn't sound like anything to celebrate. I mean to me it just sounds like you got a few more crumbs. They didn't get their 32 hour work week, they didn't demand a doubling or tripling of salary, they they didn't get better work days or more PTO, they still were begging for mere minor increases. I mean I think even for the most positive worker empowerment groups, ie these unions, we still seem to have this idea that we don't deserve anything! What good are unions if even at their most aggressive all they get are five more crumbs, not real gains???
I don't care if these workers are only taking out the trash. Their collective labor is generating 100% of the profits this company has and they're getting back about 2%. With a union's help they might be able to get back about 10%.
That still leaves 90% still being sucked up by the top 1% of the company and passive shareholders. I'm sorry, I just find that highway robbery and I cannot approve of that. It's still the business model that is based on watered down institutionalized slavery, ie Labor should be slaves and they don't deserve to be properly remunerated.
Even with all the incredible nose to the grindstone hard grinding efforts from a union, it looks to me that you don't get more than shit. IS THAT KIND OF DISAPPOINTING PAYOFF WORTH ALL THAT EFFORT? I don't think so.
I appreciate what Sean Fain tried to do but I heard their final contract was not all that impressive, especially given all of their effort. So it seems to me even under the BEST of conditions the most aggressive and militant of unions are not able to force these companies' hands. So what's the other option? Only laws.
WHAT ELSE IS THERE? WE CAN'T TAKE IT BY FORCE, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO CALL ON STATE FORCE IN RESPONSE.
And if unions have been so watered down or infiltrated, or weekend in other ways that even at their best they're barely getting out anything worth writing home about, then that doesn't seem to be the way anymore either. So what does that leave us? Only laws.
So let's get back to the political organizing the previous generations knew they needed in order to secure their rights under law.
Never vote red or blue again. They are for the 1%. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise, they are either lying or misinformed.
Go socialist or communist if you really care about this issue. They're the only ones that put workers first.
Finally, just don't work for these slavers anymore. If you have to live in poverty or on the edge, at least do that at a better workplace. Go for the job satisfaction and the positive work environment first, and then if you still get paid poorly at least it's easier to put up with. Work somewhere that takes less of a toll on your body. Seek public assistance if you have to. Reach out to your community and your family if you have one to count on
Don't let one of these evil workplaces ruin your life and DON'T work for one any longer than absolutely necessary because they will NOT treat you right. It's not just Toyota, its industry-wide. It's everywhere. A big corp almost never wants to properly remunerate their staff. Its owners and top decision makers want to see all of the profit for themselves and they honestly don't care if every single one of their workers drops dead because they see them as expendable. There are other options out there I am sure so sometimes walking away is the best option. If that means you encounter more financial struggles so be it at least you'll know that you'll have your self-respect intact and you won't be putting up with substandard treatment or exploitation by a company. There are some good places to work even though sometimes it seems like they don't exist anymore, but they're out there sometimes they're just hard to find. Sometimes a public sector job can be the answer. Of course our individual solutions will depend on our individual situations but, being unwilling to constantly put up with these types of workplaces I think is the first step. If we cannot force them to change and to value and care about those who generate the profits they demand, then our only real choices to walk away. The more people walk away from this crap, the sooner these companies will learn that it's not okay to treat people this way. All workers deserve generous profit share and high base wages for their labor.
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