Comments by "David H" (@DavidHalko) on "BMW's Hydrogen V12 Engine Is A Hilarious Engineering Stunt" video.

When one uses ~20 year old technology to mock an energy technology of today, that is the very definition of a Straw Man argument. A straw man argument is a logical fallacy. How about comparing the older model to modern Hydrogen based vehicles?
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Carbon fiber… yep… doing that…
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@Retired Bore - “progress on ICE has been extremely slow” There has been great progress! - better mileage - better emissions - smaller engines - more power in same area - less maintenance - less manual tuning - greater distance of travel - better ICE transmissions - greater fuel opportunities Engines have come a long way!
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Hydrogen is extremely sustainable. The production can be done wherever there is water, instead of mining metals for batteries across the world & transporting them to a country & manufacturer the batteries there & transporting the batteries to the place where cars are made & cost to recycle the batteries (seldom ever mentioned) & cost of battery replacement before the end of life of the EV. Hydrogen is recycled as part of the natural water cycle, after use, where the batteries will require human intervention to recycle, lest the environment is poisoned. Lead acid batteries are nearly 100% recycled, but even the best Lithium batteries are not recycling anywhere near as well as lead acid, meaning the recycled lithium is just poisoning the water supplies… hydrogen does not have that problem. Hydrogen is far more sustainable.
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Carbon based fuels are the pinnacle of energy density, being fully recyclable, where nature takes care of the CO2, in the natural carbon cycle. Most energy lifecycle illustrations don’t account for the energy required to recycle batteries, which are a consumable, for full portable electric applications. Even in full EV situations, where the CO2 & energy required to recycle to EV battery is ignored, a hybrid will still pollute less than an EV in the third world, and many parts of the first world. Hydrogen has an opportunity to change that.
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@sneaky_krait7271 - battery manufacturing still emit, energy product for batteries still emit, transportation of batteries still emit, recycling batteries still emit, battery parts not able to be recycled poison the water. CNG & H2 emit less
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@Retired Bore - our efficiency & emissions & reliability are so much better now! Why do you think H2 ICE requires such a difference, since we see engines today with the ability to handle H2, Gasoline, and Diesel? I really like the thought of a rotary engine with H2 range extender as a plug in hybrid. The rotary can be swapped out for a fuel cell, once they become economical.
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@Retired Bore - “hydrogen… unsaturated oils… sludge” so, why does this matter, to people who are producing H2 pipelines today, off-shore H2 producing wind turbines today, furnaces capable of burning higher percentages of H2 in natural gas today, engines in vehicles 🚗 & boats 🛥️ & planes ✈️ , etc?
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@0hypnotoad0 - batteries not only have cycle aging, but calendar aging… and also aging from charging in cold (northern hemisphere) frozen environments. Aging from charging in freezing temperatures can result in spontaneous combustion, at the most in opportune times (i.e. when it is in your garage & you are sleeping at 3:30am.) As lithium ion vehicles make it into the South Side of Chicago, those stray bullets will be causing a lot of cars to self combust, from merely piercing the battery casing, exposing the battery intervals to the air. The burning of lithium batteries produces carcinogenic emissions. Lithium ion batteries have their downsides. All energy is dirty. H2 is about the cleanest & safest option out there.
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@BertGraef - it takes a massive amount of energy to mine rare earths & transport rare earths & manufacture a battery & transport a battery & an incredible amount of energy to recycle a lithium ion battery. After looking at that… domestically cracked H2 that becomes water vapor is a dream!
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@jbrou123 - “range on H2 is 125 miles” 2023 Toyota Mirai XLE has a 402-mile range Technology improves every year!
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This car that he reviewed is nearly 20 years old
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In the past 20 years, smaller engines produce the same amount of power. Electrolysis making H2 on demand is making diesel engines more efficient. Ships are showing up in Asia & Europe, combusting both H2 & Diesel. Truck engines are showing up, combusting both H2 & Diesel. Airplanes are being discussed, using H2, after determining that battery is insufficient
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The paint on the airship was highly flammable, by the way. During WW2, it took the British some time to figure out how to shoot them down, using a combination of regular & incendiary rounds… watch an EV go up in flames after the lithium battery is pierced, without incendiary rounds.
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Carbon fuels are incredibly energy dense. Hydrogen for grid use makes a lot of sense, since it can be stored for when the sun is on the wrong side of the earth and the wind is not blowing.
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Compressed H2 is what seems to be showing up, I have not seen liquid H2 from this ~20 year old concept. The third world uses compressed natural gas, mass transportation busses increasingly use compressed natural gas… all ICE engines. I honestly think that CNG & Compressed H2 can be used in the first world, as the transition in the third world is increasingly happening.
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Propane tanks, heating to 120F must vent, or be at risk of explosion
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The gain in space for gaseous H2 vs liquid H2 may had a degree of offset by the fewer components and decrease in engine size. For example, a rotary engine is much smaller, and can burn hydrogen just fine.
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They could not make the tanks energy efficient enough, nearly 20 years ago, to hold the temperate down enough, for hydrogen in liquid form. When the tanks heat up, the tank must vent. Liquid propane tanks will vent at 120 degrees F or have the possibility of explosion… hydrogen tanks also have this problem at lower temperatures.
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@logitech4873 - ICE hybrid cars pollute less than 100% EV’s, depending on what the grid power is using. In the throes world, ICE hybrid pollutes less, every time.
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Less efficient for ground based vehicles
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Newer H2 systems produce less NOx than existing carbon based fuels… this will continue to improve EV’s merely shift the production of NOx to more open pit mining, battery manufacturing, and energy production facilities
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This was nearly 20 years ago, and they were thinking that gasoline stations were available everywhere, and they could start to introduce H2 filling stations, and over the life expectancy of the car there would eventually be as many H2 as gas stations.
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@Assimilator1 - there is no conversion cost for a car, a car can run on H2 or Gas, like this car does, and people can just fill up on H2 or gasoline. This is really the proverbial Holy Grail… kind of like a plug in hybrid. Honestly, gasoline will likely never go away in anyone’s lifetime, today. Yard equipment, existing cars, portable generators, etc. The energy density of liquid fuel is amazing. As far as NOx, hydrogen produces fewer than existing combustion engines. H2 is being used in Europe, to inject into existing diesel engines, to reduce NOx emissions, today. NOx can be reduced, over time.
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The amount of energy held in liquid fuel cars is absolutely amazing! I have 1/5th of the batteries from a Mach-E at my house, enough to run the house for 24 hours. People really don’t understand how much power is in an EV. Where I live, there are tons of apartments, no way to charge EV’s, so now all the spare retain space is being purchased by gasoline stations… not for gasoline, but for the anticipation of EV charging points. These will all be fast chargers. Honestly, for the rich and upper middle class, EV’s are a benefit. For the rest, it is an expensive tax on the poor, and a huge liability to the power grid. Imagine pulling 5x the power needed in a day to keep a home running and sticking into each car, in 20 minutes, multiplied by hundreds of cars along a road leading to multiple apartment complexes… when people are going home and going to work every day… when solar power is not producing much power. This means all this power is all going to be driven by carbon based fuels, to supply peak power demands. This is going to be a nightmare.
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@jnawk83 - “do this overnight” Read the previous post. In high density apartments, this is impractical… so filling stations with fast chargers 🔌 are buying up all the retail space. Apartment dwellers will not park their cars 🚙 at filling stations overnight “toaster or air conditioner” The car 🚙 will require the same number of KW, charged slow or fast. The number of amps, for the fast charge, is much higher, as you are trying to suggest! An EV is no toaster or AC. Even ovens & AC pause as temperature targets are reached, EV’s suck unbelievable quantities of power, continually, until charged… the power needed is massive! Even charging at slowly at night, with a car taking 5 days of the energy of a home 🏠, and ~2 cars per home, this means an incredible amount of energy is needed at night, when solar panels are not producing energy, this means cars 🚙 are charged using carbon fuels... marginal carbon savings.
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Nearly 20 years ago, this was a reasonable alternative, to end dependence on gasoline, and have time to slowly transition from gasoline to hydrogen. Had this been done 20 years ago, we would likely be off gasoline & diesel today.
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@danielh4995 - your point is entirely valid. We can domestically produce hydrogen at home, using cheap power, and runout cars on it… or stoves…. If heat our houses…. Or light our fireplaces… or grill… Most efficient way? Not necessarily… but during peak times in places like California, there is so much energy during the day that it is valueless now… so might as well use it!
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“Hydrogen combustion… not worth doing?” He mentioned in the video that there were disadvantages to port based fuel injection, this technology is ~20 years old, and better ways exist as he also said in the video, if the goal is also to get more horsepower out of it. Hydrogen is still likely a superior solution for high torque needs, like fully loaded tractor trailers and goods transportation over mountainous inclines. Since gasoline exists today, this concept car is a great way for regular daily drivers to run on hydrogen, where gasoline can be used for those stations where hydrogen is not yet available. This was a realistic car for a short term transition (maybe 10—20 years) from gasoline to hydrogen, using ~20 year old technology. “Ethanol… carbon neutral fuel” Since ethanol can be created out of CO2 in the atmosphere, plus a little water, this is a great option, as liquid fuel holds a lot of energy in a very condensed space! If the engines are designed to run on ethanol & gasoline, then this is a great transition option! The modern shift to gaseous hydrogen with fuel cells is a notable shift, reducing complexity, as electric components become more readily available, eliminating the battery problem in EV’s. The option of injecting hydrogen into a diesel engine, after filling up your vehicle with diesel & water, with on-vehicle electrolysis, is a great combustion fuel extender… producing less emissions & better mileage on a vehicle.
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This car is similar… Can be hydrogen first, gasoline second… no hydrogen filling station around, or it sat around for a year, the gasoline can still be used to keep it going!
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@ColtonRDean - “why bother with the hydrogen?” Hydrogen can be made in any nation, Hydrogen can supplement & replace NG, Hydrogen can supplement & replace gasoline & diesel, Hydrogen can take unreliable electricity ⚡️ from Solar 🌞 & wind 💨, store it in compressed gas or liquid or ammonia form, and then release it for energy production during peak usage times to stabilize the grid. Hydrogen based Ammonia can also be used to create plastics, which wind 💨 and solar ☀️ panels have no way of replacing from drilled oil. Hydrogen is inherently portable, not requiring the strip mining & child labor & slave labor used to make large batteries 🪫 needed to make electricity portable, where lithium battery recycling is energy & labor intensive & not really widespread. Hydrogen solves so many renewable energy problems, that solar ☀️ and wind 💨 have not addressed, there will be an abundance of H2 which can also be leveraged for automobile 🚙 & truck 🛻 & train 🚊 & airplane ✈️ usage… today… Until H2 is widespread, gasoline can still be available for the transition, until gasoline is no longer available.
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This is nearly 20 year old technology.
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@Nico_Dica - I guess I did not get the joke. Life is still burning sugars for fuel, producing CO2, for time immemorial. Humanity is pretty advanced technology, compared to an amoeba.
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@EngineeringExplained - I have not done the math yet, but the higher cost for synthetic fuel might still be cheaper than the cost for the electric car battery & motors and a change of the EV battery (ICE cars seem to run ~200k on the average? And since this is an average, the cost of that third change for some may be a stretch.) Also, the energy & CO2 in lithium battery recycling is hardly ever mentioned, in any numbers.
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There is always the rotary engine… they can burn practically anything & absolutely fun to drive!
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If hydrogen fueling stations were everywhere 20 year later, the car would still work Here we are, nearly 20 years later, and the car still works Not such a bad deal
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This was nearly 20 years ago. Had H2 become popular ~20 years ago, hydrogen filling stations would be everywhere, and these cars would still be usable. Since hydrogen did not take off, these cars are still be usable today, on gasoline. In the end, pretty solid concept.
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The secondary fuel tank is a great way to make sure that the car is usable, when a hydrogen filling station is not available… and also to make sure the car is usable after sitting in an airport parking lot for a week with a business trip. The ~20 year old duel fuel is reasonable, similar to a modern plug in hybrid.
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@gigabyte2248 - “Battery recycling generally involves…” - discharged Li-ion batteries🪫 are not safe - discharged Li-Ion still combust 🔥 on pierce - Lithium fires 🔥 occur at recycling plants - Toxic fumes result from lithium fires 🔥 - not 100% of toxic recycled Li-Ion batteries 🪫 are recycled, leaving what remains to poison the environment (same issue with solar) “mining fossil fuels” Mining carbon fuels merely re-expose carbon that was formerly in the biosphere, back into it, where it is naturally recycled ♻️ by the carbon cycle. “Scrutinize” Poking a hole 🕳️ and slurping up carbon fuels, which will just leak into the biosphere at some point, anyway, is a huge benefit since leaking methane is less of a warming agent than CO2, and the normal carbon cycle will recycle ♻️ it as plant 🌱 food. Also, some carbon fuel is abiotic, from radioactive decay, and harvested methane for combustion is better for the environment than leaked methane. “Oil wells” They are not going away, since wind 💨 & solar ☀️ don’t produce plastics, flooring, roof shingling, vinyl siding, asphalt roads, etc. “Comfortably ahead” Battery 🔋 electric ⚡️ vehicles 🚗, consuming energy in West Virginia, produce more carbon than gasoline ⛽️ hybrid vehicles (not even taking into consideration the carbon & energy in recycling batteries!) Just thinks about the results in the 3rd world! This being said, H2 seems to be the cleanest alternative, since H2O exists nearly everywhere, salt water 💦 is a ready electrolyte, and consumption of H2 is naturally recycled ♻️ in the water cycle. Of every possible option, batteries 🪫 are the worst, poisoning the water & land & air Carbon based fuel ⛽️ is recycled ♻️ naturally, as plant 🌱 food, which our food 🍱 eats H2, produced by wind 💨 energy cracking salt water 💦, appears to be the least risky to the environment, taking the least amount of energy to recycle ♻️ things. Humans don’t recycle ♻️ well, except for lead acid batteries 🔋, and lead acid batteries🔋 are too heavy for 100% electric vehicles, besides golf cart sized vehicles 🚗
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