Comments by "Mark Pawelek" (@mark4asp) on "The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters"
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I tend to agree with Carl on the trick socialism plays on us: it pretends to be a better form of liberalism. Neo-Marxist Adorno calls this trick the "secret Utopia at the heart of reason". This idea actually provides Adorno with the thrust of his "Critical Theory". The trick is to use the ideals of liberalism - universalism, liberty, justice, freedom, equality, excellence - against liberalism - to push ideals to even more universal ideals. To socialism, it you will. You could say the BLM and transing movement took their playbook from Adorno. In fairness to Adorno - he thinks there can be no other way forward, not only for socialism but also for liberalism and conservatism.
Lindsay's project has been to try to ken how we got here from there. Why did academia come to conclude that: woke, DEI, and sustainability are a way forward for the West? - when they are clearly just novel ways for us to burn our house down? Yet the path taken by woke was NOT inevitable. So the fact that path was taken out of the Liberal heritage does not mean Liberalism is a failure or wrong. The fact that path was taken at all - must alert us to inherent weaknesses and contradictions within Liberalism. Yet to paraphrase Churchill:
"Liberalism is the worst social system, except for all its rivals".
I think Lindsay sees it that way. Carl seems to imply he has an alternative to liberalism. Communism, Fascism, and Woke all claim to be alternatives to Liberalism.
I think Lindsay, and Carl are both on target here. But in different ways. Lindsay identifies the "Long March Through the Institutions" as key, so does Matthew Goodwin. There's no doubt in my mind that much of academia is intent on using the academy to forward, petty, and non-viable Left politics simply because they can. Lindsay also tracks woke back to its origins in Marcuse's very distinct brand of neo-Marxism. By can large, Lindsay is right on most things.
Carl and Lindsay both see weaknesses, and flaws in our liberal societies. Carl believes the flaws are there by design. Lindsay believes the flaws are there by corruption. Carl needs to be more precise. Can he describe his ideas, in more detail, especially which aspects of liberalism Carl would abandon. Otherwise, if Carl calls himself a conservative, likes Christianity, and harshly criticises Liberalism, then Lindsay may classify Carl as yet another "Christian Nationalist". Given US CNs have been harassing Lindsay lately, he's react as he does.
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The Internet has this to say about ressentiment :
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Ressentiment is a French word that means a deep-seated feeling of resentment, frustration, or hostility. It can also refer to a sense of powerlessness to express these feelings directly.
The concept of ressentiment was of particular interest to 19th-century thinkers, most notably Friedrich Nietzsche. However, Nietzsche did not invent the term, which was already in circulation in his lifetime.
Some say that ressentiment is an emotional mechanism that can help explain the psychological foundations of reactionary politics, right-wing populism, Islamic fundamentalism, and radicalism.
Some characteristics of ressentiment include:
A feeling of being a victim
- A reassessment of what was once desired or valued as something undesirable
- A reassessment of oneself from being inferior to being noble and superior
- Negative emotions of envy, shame, and anger
- Other-directed negative emotions of resentment, indignation, and hatred
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<- So, the Left labelled ressentiment as an affliction of the "right"!! (Although Nietzsche - who brought it into widespread use - described ressentiment as the afflition of victims and socialists !)
<- Consequently, we need to invent a new term for the Left's affliction: "Suicidal empahy", and "auto-psychopathology" seem more appropriate since they describe the consequence of Left ressentiment.
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@jacobblanton5179 I agree with your point on the individual. Too much stress there by Liberalism. But Liberalism did evolve in The Enlightenment (1632 - 1789) before Sociology - at a time when Christian Ideology had taken a wrong turn with its wrong prognosis in Natural Law). Even going so far as to dictate a helio-centric world because it saw a theological need for such.
Liberalism is NOT a corruption of Christianity - don't even see how you got there - not unless you think Protestantism is a "corruption of Christianity" too!
I don't see the "origin of Totalitarianism in Liberalism" either - as you imply. That's an unjust slur. Socialism was already an idea, in France, BEFORE Marx. It was a response to the power of Capitalism. Enlightenment ideas drove electoral reform (ending rotten boroughs in Britain, and gave the US Constitution its template), and practical Democracy was barely a thing anywhere before The Enlightenment. That movement went too far, in France, with the French Revolution; but the French Monarchy was already so corrupt and rotten it was bound to burn down one way or another.
Enlightenment ended in 1789. Western ideas post-Enlightenment tended to break away from Empiricism. All that 19th, and 20th century philosophy (Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, Heidegger, CT, pomo) traded with Liberal language and assumptions; but much of it was illiberal, anti-Empiricist and subjectivist (See Stephen Hicks).
Even the new Liberals such as J.S. Mill, are barely Liberal at all - according to Lindsay: "Mill's consequentialist ethics are illiberal". But we have a cul de sac with ethics. No one poses a responsible new ethics suitable for society. Many of the ethics posed: Marx, Heidegger, etc. are OTT, and badly done.
As I read you - I hear a bad conservative thinker:
- too many fundamentals and too much monstering rhetoric
- no attempt to justify your ideas with actual evidence (citations?).
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Can we criticise Liberalism to give ourselves a new label? Will we call ourselves post-liberals?, neo-liberals? Because - if we don't autocritique and honestly describe our ideas, then our critics will label us. Who wants to be called an anti-liberal?
Big thinkers in the past, wrote about the totality of human life: history, economy, law, community, reproduction, excellence, mediocrity, political forms, ... They got a lot wrong, but were, at least, able to influence by daring to give a positive vision for the future. Carl will need to as well if he wants an alternative. One cannot have a big picture without drawing that picture. Carl's criticisms nit-pick liberalism. He's not drawn his alternative to it; so I assume - he has none. Then again nor do the WEF, Western academia, NGOs, BLM, nor ecotards. No one does. As I understand him, there's so much Liberalism Carl has to keep that he still sounds like a reformed liberal to me - never a conservative. Then again, today: conservatives sound more statist (or 'Marxist') than conservative.
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What's the point of the right responding to a little niggling from some liberals?
Are liberals as harmful to you as Jihadists, antisemites, XR, JSO, ..., or any of the other ultra left nihilists?
I think Linsay sees 'woke' as obsessed by their ressentiment. Lindsay literally cited Mein Kampf as 'woke'. From that POV, right antisemites are woke.
"Woke" isn't defined by Lindsay or his allies, as a "systematic critique of power relations".
White men are being attacked by woke due to their (woke) feminist ressentiment.
BTW: Adorno & Horkeimer may have impressive word skills but their critique of reason is dishonest and wrong,
No: Reason is not "totalizing". Critics of reason are totalizing, Sargon sails close to totalitarians by accepting any of Foucault, Adorno, Horkeimer, Heidegger,... whinning about reason.
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The Right sometimes think the Left, in California, are Marxian. They aren't, they are mostly confused. The Left have this dream of "freedom". If you want: - live on the streets, do hard drugs, don't work, live by crime. At the same time, the Left also despise actual Freedom. In fact: the Left have been dissing Libertarianism overtime since the mid-1990s. The arrival of "communitarianism" on the Left marked a concerted assault on Libertarian ideas and, it seems, a refusal to cooperate on campaigning for actual freedom. 'Frisco is the Left's alternative vision of Freedom; their anti-Libertarianism.
They ain't LARPers, they are strickly table-top and computer games - fantasy only.
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