Comments by "Jack Haveman" (@JackHaveman52) on "Liberty Vault"
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@chickenlover657
One of the things about socialist thinking is that socialism is an evolving phenomenon based on the idea of the dialectic. Marx's brand of socialism is the product of the socialist ideas that came before him. To be socialist does NOT mean that you're Marxist. Socialism comes in various guises. Mussolini was a socialist but had different socialist ideas than Lenin and Lenin, the Bolshevik, had different ideas than the rival socialist Mensheviks. Today's socialist are different again than Marxists, who emphasised class as the great divider of society. American socialists don't do that due to the fact that socialists 50 to 60 years ago concluded that the western workers were not about to foster revolution because things were going to well for them. So they changed their emphasis to identity, namely race, gender or sexuality. Same claims of oppression and inequality but from a different viewpoint.
"We have nothing to lose but our chains" has been a slogan of the radical socialist for over 150 years among others. Orwell spoke about Party slogans in his writings, especially in his books "Animal Farm" and "1984". That was over 70 years ago. They're still using them. In Lenin's time it was the "class struggle", and "workers taking over the means of production". Now it's "white supremacy", "white fragility", "Diversity, equity and inclusion". Different slogans for different times. Thoughtlessly repeated with no need to think about it. The slogan is the truth, until a "new truth" is revealed. No need to talk further than that. The truth, their truth, is self evident until we need a "new truth".
That's the sloganeering. They didn't have the communication apparatus like we do today so they don't have the number of slogans and catch-phrases that we do now. However, it doesn't negate the mindset of the simplistic summation to be explanation enough for complex socialist ideas. It's enough to repeat the slogan. The rest, to their mind, is just window dressing.
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@chickenlover657
You missed my point. They're all versions of Socialism.
Socialism definition: a political and economic theory of social organisation which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Different individuals have different ideas on how it should be manifested but that definition brings it to its basics. As for the Frankfurt School, I've read Marcuse and I also know that the group are Marxist philosophers, who have advanced Marxist thought into different Critical Theories. I've read some of the material and it's based on Socialist and Marxist ideas but advanced, through the dialectic, so to evolve along with societal conditions.
I'm sure that Peterson is no fan of the Frankfurt School for just that reason. In fact, it's how he came to fame. He fought back against Critical Queer Theory at the University of Toronto, specifically the infamous Bill C-16 which had it's roots in Critical Theory and Identity politics, which both came from the Frankfurt School which grew out of Marxism and Socialist thought. That's when he suggested that one could be prosecuted for misgendering and was told that he was being reactionary and bigoted. Turns out, he was correct. He's dead set against the ideas of those from the Frankfurt School as well as the Postmodernists.
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@chickenlover657
I never said that Marx was the father of Communism. I said that he was the most influential of all the communists. I even mentioned Hegel as an influence on his thinking. Rousseau was as well and so were the socialists of the French Revolution and they all preceded him.
As for the Frankfurt School, they were also highly influenced by Marx and even called themselves "Marxists". However, it would seem that you don't even get my reference to Hegel of the Hegelian dialectic. Hegel said that society leaps ahead in leaps and bounds and Socialists adopted this idea as a part of the evolution of Socialism, including Marx. It's why Mao called his socialist plan "The Great Leap Forward". It was in homage to Hegel. Hegel and Marx both influenced the Bolsheviks, who supported the Frankfort School, who came up with Critical Theory. These groups and individuals, who were all recognised as great Socialist thinkers, influenced the Postmodernists and they were big influences on the modern progressives, like Ibram X. Kendi, Kimberly Crenshaw, Derek Bell, Robin DiAngelo, Michael Dyson and others. It's all a progression.
I would invite you to read their work and then you'll see how this all ties in together. You are right, though. The Frankfurt School are deeply responsible for the mess we're in now but they're not alone. There are a lot of Socialist thinkers who added to this mix and before we beat this thing, I'm sure there will be a lot more.
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