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Jack Haveman
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Comments by "Jack Haveman" (@JackHaveman52) on "PragerU" channel.

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@billpracells8876 I never ONCE said that I supported slavery. What I said is that history and the people that lived it are complex and we should try to understand them, instead of categorising them into good and evil. It's how we understand ourselves. In fact, that's what you're doing to me, right now. You're not making any points on the complexities of history. You're just trying to win an argument by vilifying me. It's not a discussion, it's just more accusations. My father grew up 30 miles east of the German border, in the Netherlands, during the war. How much different his life would have been had he been born, 35 miles east of where he grew up. He's have been in Germany. Why did that line on the map destine him to be one of the good guys, yet his counterpart, 35 miles away, was marching with the Hitler youth? Would YOU, living in central Germany, in 1935, refused to join the Hitler youth? Would you have been that special that you would have went against your family, your friends, teachers, neighbours and community and defied them all by tacitly rejecting the Nazis? I doubt it. I'd like to think that I would and so do you, but the reality is that we'd have both been proudly goose stepping beside one another, proudly carrying the Nazi flag in our Hitler youth uniforms. To not admit that, is a refusal to understand yourself and how the human mind works and it's a discussion we should all have about ourselves and human history. Also, you don't know what your feelings would have been about slavery had you not the luxury of 20/20 hindsight. It's easy to be virtuous when you don't have to live it.
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Trump is related to Obama? Cool.
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@raulcantu9142 That's not to say that there isn't good reason to stop polluting the air. Smog is not a good thing, no matter how you look at it. However, they're using this to control us, telling us if we don't bow down to what THEY know is good for us, we'll destroy everything. How could we be so selfish? They're trying to guilt us into acquiescence. If we don't accept the carbon tax, as an example, we're killing our children. Talk about being manipulative.
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@raulcantu9142 Look at the "Yellow Vest" protests in France. It's directly due to a carbon tax that raised fuel prices, dramatically. Suddenly, the reality of it hit the average person. Rich people in France, they can pay it but what about the average person. How are they going to heat their homes, get to work. They can't afford the fuel. That's the reality of it. The rich, the elite, they have the money. Most people don't. And it even goes deeper than that. More people have been raised from abject poverty, over the last 20 years, than at any time in history. The major reason for that is fairly cheap energy. Now, they're driving first world poorer people down the poverty pipe. What's going to happen to these newly developing countries? It will devastate them. These added taxes may well cause more turmoil and migration than the climate change does. Their solution might be worse than the problem they're trying to solve....but the media, Hollywood types, academicians, politicians and upper middle class keep telling the ordinary person that he's the problem and he's the one that going to suffer most from their solutions. If we don't allow ourselves to be able to talk honestly about the problem, we're in for a bad time of it, but it's like a religion to them. Question their dogma and you're a heretic. Go to any university, in the first world, and start questioning the politics of climate change. They'll shut you up and quick.
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Terry Tater Being a country guy, I can tell you how frustrating it is to see these city folk move into our neighbourhoods. They come in and are surprised that the country isn't what they expected and then try to change it to the image they have in their heads....meaning, they try to change us. Yes, I'm conservative. I'm about self reliance, personal responsibility, individual rights and sovereignty, hard work, and judging others on their character and integrity. I don't decry the actions of others when I'm guilty of those things myself. I try to say what I mean and conversely, mean what I say. It's how people of integrity should try to live their lives. I don't always succeed, in fact, I'm a failure a good part of the time but I recognise the weaknesses the reside in me. That's why I take umbrage in the defensive stance of this woman. She won't take responsibility for her part in what she sees as a problem. She wants it to be about everyone else BUT her. Had she admitted her role in this perceived problem and how difficult it will be to change the mindset of the average person, the conversation could have went in a more positive direction. But she wouldn't do that. All she wanted to do was identify the bad guy and then exert control. My ego isn't so grand that I think I can change the world but I do know that I can try to control my own actions. Worse, I don't have the right to control them anyway. Change, positive change, comes through a cultural renaissance, led by consciences of individuals, acting on their own free will. It's no different that the cultural change that the internet brought about. Individual decisions to use the new technology, no one being forced into it but a silent, yet overwhelming force of personal choices.
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Gratitude is the one aspect of Christianity that I see great value in. Gratitude brings a feeling of fulfilment and contentment. Ingratitude breeds resentment, anger and contempt. Why would anyone want to live that way?
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@NoOneGetzOutAlive Yup. When one is lacking in facts and evidence, one has to resort to name calling. You're a troll. The lowest form of life on the internet.
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@orkhepaj If you can't understand the meaning of the word "integrity" there's no point in even discussing this with you. You're dealing in semantics. You're correct. It's NOT "cheating" in the specific definition of the word but it's damned unfair and only those lacking in ethics would use this to unfairly compete. You're muddling the argument and I can't help but think that you're doing it intentionally.
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@orkhepaj Then forget about the semantics. When something is ethically wrong, it's wrong. Zero in on that. Anyone, with any sense of integrity, know it's wrong and knows that they've found a way to game the system. In other words, to legally cheat to their advantage. Unethical behaviour is legal cheating. You're dealing in semantics and it serves no purpose except to muddle an argument and causing people, who by all appearance agree on the meat of the argument, to argue over things that should be on the periphery. Maybe you like dealing in silly outlying games but I think it's a waste of time. Move on to the meat of the topic.
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@powerhouse109 TV show and a movie? What? Another person who judges people on a single issue and then defines them on THAT issue. Did you know that there's not been one person, IN HISTORY, that hasn't said or done stupid things. I know that I have and I will bet that you have, too. So...get off your high horse and quit pretending that the perfect "you" has the right to discuss the intricacies of politics because of your innate perfection. It's an arrogance only befitting someone with sociopathic tendencies.
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@reptard6833 Nazi....direct translation: National Socialist German Workers' Party "Socialist" and the doubled down with "Workers". Don't have to be an historian. It's information available to all.
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Damian Tirado Surely you've heard the expression that "man is born in sin". It's at the very heart of the Christian faith. It's why Jesus died on the cross. He died to save us from our sinful nature. That's basic Christianity. If we die, with a faith in Jesus, we will be rewarded with a new and perfect body. Until then, we're all at the mercy of our sinful nature. It's why the Catholics have confession. It's because of this basic Christian belief that we will sin and confession is necessary. Also, Christian believe that they are following a path TO righteousness, NOT that they ARE righteous. Any Christian that believes that he's good is suffering from the sin of "pride", a grievance sin in the Christian faith. They believe that they're TRYING to be good, something totally different than BEING good. That's what the Christian faith believes. To add, to "try" implies failure. You may have been raised in the church but you completely misunderstood the faith that was being taught. Either that or that church didn't believe in the basic tenets of Christianity, which is entirely possible but unlikely.
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@bosco1780 We cannot be held accountable for the stupidity of those who treat Chinese Americans badly. We should NEVER refrain from telling the truth about the horrific policies of the Chinese government. You're allowing their actions, that have killed people, destroyed lives and threatened our lives economically and financially because some individuals might behave badly. What was worse? The Chinese government allowing this pandemic into the world or some individuals acting like jerks. You have to weigh the damage and the Chinese government has to be held accountable for their actions. Otherwise, they will do it again and it gives license to other countries to do the same. I can guarantee you one thing. If it was the American government that had done this, you'd be only too willing to shout their blame from the rooftops and not give any consideration that American individuals might be treated with prejudice in other countries. It's only the white vs brown that sets the left off. Bigotry is bigotry, no matter who causes it. It was the bigotry of the Chinese government that prompter them to cover this up and the world is paying for it.
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If Mexicans aren't offended, they should be. If they don't know enough to be offended I'm gonna have to be offended for them. It's the least I can do.
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@ethandavis3294 And YOU are missing the point that I was making. Had you been on that ship, with Columbus, you'd have done what your shipmates did. Things that you now condemn them for. It's easy to be virtuous, believing that you're better than they were, when you live in a time and place where those things aren't happening. That's MY point and I'll bet that you disagree with me.
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If hate speech were illegal, we're all guilty.....every one of us. That's what they want. Control us by using our thoughts, ideas and speech against us. The left rabble doesn't realise that it will harm them as much as it does those they hate in the end. They're just pawns to be discarded when their perfect society has been attained.
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@d_a_n_a. It sure looked hateful when gay Asian reporter, Andy Ngo was being attacked. Or when those 2 marines of Hispanic heritage were being beaten, for no reason, by Antifa, and being called all kinds of ethnic slurs. How about the abuse heaped on those Covington kids by the left? That was as hateful as it gets. Hate is a human emotion. If you're a human being, you're a victim of your own hateful responses. To point at others as despicable, can and will be interpreted as hate. You're own virtue can turn on you at any time. A person, who believes that he's beyond reproach due to his virtue, will end up being capable of the most heinous of crimes, all in the name of doing the right thing.
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@brandonsopinion8904 Like Chris Cuomo, of CNN, said. "Antifa is fighting the good fight". I'm guessing it's why you never, or at least rarely, hear the Democrats or the MSM condemn the actions of Antifa. They still approve of the methods of the KKK.
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@rhondae8222 It's free money. Most people would take free money if offered. It's the same rationale as the distribution of wealth. People, with no money, wanting to take the money from those who have it. Property rights mean nothing to them. You have an integrity that a lot of people can't understand which include the distribution of wealth and the reparation advocates. They just don't get the idea of personal responsibility and achievement. Stand fast in those beliefs.
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@Blackwell-III That doesn't even make sense. A business owner is NOT a slave owner. His employee is free to walk off the job any time he wants. When I worked for someone else, I did it on my own accord and when I quit, there was not a thing they could do about it. When I had my own renovation business, my employees would quit whenever they wanted and they did to return to school or for better opportunities. My business was small and work wasn't always there for them. They weren't slave and neither was I when I worked for others.
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@rhondae8222 You're welcome. You're in a tough situation but nothing can be more satisfying than sticking to your principles. You might feel alone at times, but you're not. There are others who believe as you do.
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@rathofturkey It would seem that way. However, I could only take him more seriously if he would explain why he says as he says. He just says it as if HE is the authority, doing the exact same thing that he's accusing the Church of doing. He says that he's not acting out of hate but he isn't saying anything that would indicate that he likes anyone that he disagrees with, either. People, like that, are very difficult to talk to.
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Some people just hate. They hate and it makes them angry and the anger makes them hate even more.
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@Halcon_Sierreno Guys, like you, will always find an "at least". That's what hatred does to you. You'll always find the negative.
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So, increasing your skill level doesn't help? Forget school....get a plastic surgeon? Ok....kids. Don't be listening to this guy.
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@galaxykitsune It isn't the absolute decider but your gender will give odds on what your career, interest and hobbies will be. NOT always but just as men are, on average, taller than women, but not always, men will also have tendencies to go to certain interests and careers over others. NOT always. It seems that some people just can't understand that. Every study shows this to be true and some people just won't accept it.
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@tonyromano6220 I never once tried to disprove the existence of God. All I did was say what I believe. I could be right and I could be wrong but I do know that the Bible says that the truth will set you free. That doesn't prove the existence of a living God but it sure does point to a transcendent fundamental reality. There is a truth that sits way above our concepts of what we can possibly perceive.
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@WhatHistoryShorts So often the biggest oppressor is the person staring out at you from the mirror. That person is also the one that can set you free. Just do the best that you can. It's all you can do. I'm seeing it with my grand daughter who's so susceptible to outside forces. She's only in grade 12 and she's already talking about being non-binary. I don't know what's going to happen when she goes to college. I'm just hoping for the best.
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A buddy of mine works up in the Canadian Arctic. He says the same thing as Candace does. Polar bears are extremely dangerous. In some of the places he works, there is always someone on the lookout for them and there's lots of them about. He seen quite a few of them.
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You don't run into common sense like this too often.
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AUmapathi1 I don't want to lesson the impact the loss of the Arawak people or others had on them or even begin to suggest that it's a good thing. However, as an impact on world history, it's not that big a deal. Peoples have come and gone for tens of thousands of years and they include in the Americas. These are people that were already gone when the Europeans arrived there and whose existence will likely be forever lost in human memory. This has happened all over the earth. Their extinction had a huge impact on them at the time, but to us it's barely a footnote if anything at all. It's just a continuous pattern of human existence which ends with us. Columbus was one of those rare men who really changed the course of history. There are very few of those. Mohammed, Jesus (if he existed) or those that wrote the Gospels, Confucius, Guttenberg, Pasteur and Newton are others. They all had impacts on human life that had lasting effects and whose life's work will always have the distinction of changing the world. That doesn't mean that they were always good people. They weren't, just like the rest of us. The capacity for good and evil lies within us all. That's a given, like it or not and Columbus is no different. One of the biggest lessons we learn from men like that is not just the big contributions that they made but also in the realisation that they are ordinary men who did things that were out of the ordinary and that potential is in all of us, just like the potential to commit horrendous acts. Too many people want to vilify instead of learn. It's as if they're really saying how good they believe themselves to be and that is one of the biggest mistakes any person can make.
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@JhutaNabi The problem with your viewpoint, that I can see, is that slavery was an accepted part of Christianity. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that slavery is wrong. No one wanted to be slave but they were quite happy to own one themselves. The idea, that slavery is wrong and was brought out by Christian groups, wasn't even thought of in Columbus's time. The very first Abolitionist group was started in Britain by Quakers in 1783. That's 277 years AFTER Columbus died. That's as far away from Columbus's time as we are from 1783. Before that, the idea that slavery was wrong, was not even close to a mainstream discussion although it was a topic among some academics and religious leaders. Had anyone told Columbus that slavery was wrong, he would have looked at them as if they'd been out in the sun too long. It would have been something that would have been inconceivable to him. After all, the Bible seems to allow it, especially in the Old Testament but even the New Testament tells slaves to obey their master. The anti-slavery movement grew out of Christianity but that was over 1500 years after the Church became a strong institution.
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@JhutaNabi Of course Columbus was controversial in his time. He was an Italian, getting exclusive licences to operate in the New World, in Spain. The members of the Spanish Court were envious of a foreigner getting these potentially lucrative deals. Also, Columbus was bull headed and ambitious and that would add to the bad feelings about him. Another factor was the tendency for other Europeans to vilify the Spaniards, including Columbus as he worked for the Spanish crown, in a movement known as the "Black Legend". This was a strong bigotry against anything that was Spanish. I think that it's laughable when I say that the anti-slavery movement started in the late 1700s and then you prove it with your reference to a paper wrote in 1836, when the abolitionist movement was starting to gain traction in the US. It uses new interpretations of the Bible to refute slavery. That's what the Reformation was all about....new interpretations of the Bible that forced people to question the dogma of the church and it all started AFTER Columbus died. I will give you another short example. My father was born 10 miles west of the German border, in the Netherlands. He was 8 years old when the Nazis invaded and him and his brother hid in a ditch, terrified, as the German army marched passed them. Yet, had he been born 20 miles to the east of where he had hidden, he'd be German and marching proudly, pretending that he was off to fight for the fatherland and dreaming of the day that he would be one of those soldiers. He's told me that many times. The difference between him hating the Nazis and being a good guy and loving them and being thought of as a monster, was defined by a line on a map. That's it. He knows that he'd have been just as susceptible to the lure of Hitler that all his school mates had been. What's really strange is that you hardly ever hear about the atrocities of the Aztecs and how they'd capture slaves to sacrifice to their Gods. These were blood baths and Cortez and his men were horrified at the carnage. Why aren't we talking about that? All people are doing is congratulating themselves on how moral they are by comparing themselves to those of the past who we now see as taking part in things that we feel are now wrong. Telling ourselves that we're better than they are when in reality we're not. We just live in a time and place in which we were taught to vilify these things because our ancestors started to question their beliefs....a product of our times. We're like my dad was, born on the right side of boundary that was set by others.
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Sylvertaco Columbus was a hard man, living in hard times. It was a part of who he was. He may not have had the fortitude to achieve what he did without that ruthlessness. It's not about making big judgements on individuals. It's the realisation that he, in may ways, was an ordinary man, who had his problems, just like the rest of us. We celebrate the idea that our history is filled with ordinary people, who have their faults along with there positive traits, who could still accomplish the near impossible things that can change the course of history. We don't celebrate Columbus day because he was perfect. We celebrate it because his imperfections were no different than yours or mine and he could still be such and important figure to the existence of humanity.
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Sylvertaco Had Columbus not gone west, it would never had given those scientists, diplomats and leaders the affluence and the ability to impact the world through their work and perseverance. The new world brought trade and a new diet that changed the way the ordinary person lived and gave those people a lifestyle of privilege and power that allowed for their ideas and discoveries to have an impact on the world. Most of those advances would not have been possible without the discovery of a brand new world that was unknown. History doesn't happen in a vacuum. Had the affluence that the New World brought back to Europe had never happened, a lot of those people that you mentioned would still be concerned about survival in a much poorer existence. The results of that is still impacting all of humanity today. Columbus and Gutenberg's printing press are 2 of the biggest events in human history. Nothing would be the same had those 2 events had never occurred. Human existence is a struggle. Life is a mish mash of the angelic and the horrific. Columbus embodied both, just like the rest of us. However, he did something that almost no one has ever done in history. He introduced us to a new world which opened new possibilities never contemplated before. It allowed all the changes that you talked about. It may have happened do to other innovations but we can't know that because we can't comment of things that never happened. Besides, there is no scientist, diplomat or leader that has lived spotless lives. They're human and as such they are flawed. We celebrate the ability to overcome those flaws and still achieve great things. That's what Columbus did. It was a momentous discovery he made and when he returned to Spain and told everyone about it, the world was never the same.
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Sylvertaco Of course there were advances that allowed Columbus to do what he did. They came in increments. Columbus tried to put it all together and he made mistakes but had he not, he might not have gone west to reach Asia. He took all the the small advances and used it to make one huge advancement. It's the same with Darwin. He didn't create the theory of evolution out of nowhere. He took all the ideas that scientists had advanced before him and coalesced them into one unified theory. Even then, it wasn't perfect, because nothing ever is but it changed the way we see the biology of life. Einstein is the same. He took all the ideas and truths of cosmology, mathematics and physics that had been gathering over a few hundred years and rolled into one unified idea that became the theory of relativity. He made mistakes but it was a game changer in science. You don't expect people to be perfect and you have to realise that they didn't to it alone. It's like Newton said "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." Great people take the works of others and then see or develop great truths or accomplishment that others have never done before them. Columbus was the one that took all the work of those before him and used it to try and accomplish something. He had no idea what the impact would have but within 50 years the world had changed immensely. All because he wanted a better way to get silk and spices and his answer changed the world.
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Sylvertaco Because you can't have an Einstein day and an Aristotle day, Darwin day, Pasteur day, Newton day, Copernicus day, Martin Luther King day (ok, you can have that one), Aquinas Day, Thomas Payne day, Adam Smith day and on and on, because it is unworkable. Columbus was one of the biggest and for some reason, through a kind of social evolution, people thought his accomplishment was bit enough to remember. It became a tradition. Suddenly, some people think traditions aren't worth having or they've decided that this person isn't perfect so that day should be eliminated. As a matter of fact, that's exactly why some KKK members fought the idea of a Martin Luther King day. They pointed out that he made mistakes and that eliminates his ideas as worthy. I wasn't around when Columbus Day was celebrated. People had their traditions back then. We still celebrate those traditions today. It's the same with Christmas. They are the result of tradition and heritage. They don't just pop out of the air like someone waved a magic wand. It's a remembrance of something worth remembering. You're making too big a deal out of it. You're telling people that their traditions are bogus because you don't get it. The answer is this. YOU don't celebrate it. Let others do as they will. I have no more right to tell others what is important to them than anyone else has to tell me what is important to me. If people want to celebrate Columbus, have at er. Now, I'm going to celebrate Thanksgiving....another day some people are now criticising. Also, a day that took place because a group of people heard about a land that lay to the west, across the ocean, and decided to got there. A land discovered by Columbus. See how that works.
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The reason people are changing names is due to a new ideological process that says that celebrating Columbus day is somehow racist and celebrates genocide. That's at the heart of changing the focus of that day. That's what I'm objecting to. It's a part of progressive thought that is vilifying western heritage and is, in effect, blaming all the ills of the world on a single group and reducing it to white colonialism, white privilege and the white patriarchy. It's saying that they've found the culprit and that they must now do everything to put an end to it. It's a symptom of a much bigger problem. It's the same solution that Hitler and his Nazis had. The fault of their problems was laid at the feet of the Jews and they had a solution. The fault of modern problems are now being laid at the feet of western civilisation and they must put an end to it. The vilification of Columbus is only a small aspect of it. To them, Columbus symbolises white colonialism. When they're done with that, they'll move on to the next symbol until they've laid their perceived problem bare. From there, I don't want to know where they intend to go.
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They tell you exactly why they don't like the name Columbus Day. They think Columbus is a colonialist. It's also why they've suggested naming it after the Natives of the Americas. It's that ideology that vilifies the oppressor and elevates the oppressed. You're missing the point that I made about the progressive thought. Progressive thought or post modernism, divides the world into the two groups, the oppressed and the oppressor. The oppressor is white colonialism. Start reading the twitter comments of extreme feminists and Antifa types. Read some of the works of post modernist and Marxist academics. They've laid all the economic and cultural woes of the entire world on European colonialism. That's where that parallel with Hitler is drawn. The Nazis also laid all of Germany's and the world's problems at the feet of the Jews. There are still people that do that on these comment threads. It's the ideology of blame. Europeans are blamed for everything that is wrong due to their colonialist past and Columbus is a small part of that. It's the same victim versus oppressor mentality. Replace white colonialist with Jew and you have a speech that Hitler could have given. Exact same words except the identifier of the problem. That's the only difference between the two.
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Explain to me why it is only certain speakers that aren't allowed to speak at universities? If I have the nerve to suggest, in some blogs, that BLM may not be the correct way to go to solve racial difficulties, I get creamed for it. If I say Serena Williams acted like a spoiled child at that tennis match, even though I also McEnroe also behaved like a spoiled brat in his time, I'm a racist and sexist. This is the group that has infiltrated the Democratic party and allowed Hillary to say that white people have to learn (fill in the blank) and that white men have to do (again, fill in the blank) and the party that suggested that the right are nothing but a bunch of bigoted hillbillies. I've always supported left wing ideas, until the end of the Obama era. It was then the left started to support violence, doxing commenters on social media, vilifying the male patriarchy, protesting speakers and smashing private property and threatening people they don't like. Wear a MAGA hat on campus at many colleges and you risk being attacked. Show a small segment of a debate on public TV, like Lindsey Shepherd did, and be reprimanded before a tribunal and told that you may have broken the law. Comedians don't even do colleges anymore because of the reactions of left wing students who shut up anyone that displeases them. I'm now a centrist, hoping that someone starts a movement of a group that allows freedom of expression and won't tell me that I have no right to free speech and doesn't carry the victim mentality that has permeated left wing thinking. I'm not even sure what strawman points I've made. Maybe you should be a little specific when you make those accusations.
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Sylvertaco Did you see that raving crowd at the Kavanaugh confirmation today? That's exactly what I've been talking. That mentality. Here is a sample of that mentality. Watch the entire thing. The youtuber is making her own take on it but she shows a clip of the types of people that the Democrats are aligning themselves with. It's why I've stopped voting in left wing politicians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oohy7jB94k&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=qpw79UcQaPUMoZZk%3A6 Now, back to this Columbus day debacle. Read the reasons given for not celebrating that day any longer. It is a list of left wing talking points and exactly what I've been talking about. If you hear a person badmouthing Columbus, you can be sure that this person has the left wing ideology down pat. https://www.care2.com/causes/10-reasons-we-should-stop-celebrating-colomus-day.html https://medium.com/@danielberenson/twelve-reasons-not-to-celebrate-columbus-day-5689aff0e479 https://www.debate.org/opinions/should-we-have-columbus-day Dozens more just like it and they are all versions of the same talking points. Yet the bottom line is they are all, in one way or another, railing against the man that symbolises colonialism. It is no accident that the first place to change the name of that holiday to indigenous people day was a left wing Democratic city.
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Sylvertaco My views haven't changed a bit. It's the basic views and principles of the groups and political parties that I once sympathised with that have changed. This is a common point made by scores of people who all say that same thing and I'll paraphrase. "I didn't leave the left, I feel as if the left has left me". As an example, the left that I was a part of 40 years ago, would NEVER have taken part in the Kavanaugh witch hunt. They still believed in the rule of law and all the protocols that go with it. Not the left of today and not the Democratic party. Everyone would have been appalled at the craziness that went on outside the Supreme Court when he was being confirmed. The leftist of when I was young would have disavowed all that action and would have agreed with the idea of "innocent until proven guilty", the cornerstone our the western judicial system. We have all kinds of holidays that are devoted to non-Americans. Christmas and Easter celebrate the life of Christ, a Jewish man. Thanksgiving celebrate the coming together of British and native people, neither of which were American, although I will not be surprised to see the crazy left go after that some time in the future. I've already seen facebook memes that mock the idea of celebrating how white settlers give thanks to God and the Indigenous people and then proceed to slaughter those very people. I don't know if it will go any further but the seeds of dissent are there. Without the voyages of Columbus, there would be no America. That's exactly why the far left hate him. They believe America to be corrupt and should be destroyed and be rebuilt in a model that they've created. Some college equity groups now insist that meetings begin with the acknowledgement that we all live on land stolen from the "original people". Listen to the rhetoric from the Evergreen College protests of a year ago. That's exactly what they do. Do you believe that these ideologues would support anything Columbus did? Not a chance. The entire thing has its roots in a new ideology and it has been so deeply ingrained into the new left that many don't even know that it has been happening to them. It's a new way of thinking that has been taught to the children who have grown and has now become a part of the academic lexicon.
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Sylvertaco Would the theory of evolution always be a mystery had Darwin not put it out as a theory. I doubt that very much....but he was the one that did it. Similarly, I'm sure eventually someone else would have crossed the ocean and discovered the new lands.....but that didn't happen. We're not talking about the hypothetical here. We're talking about what DID happen. I've shown you all kinds of sources of why people don't want to celebrate Columbus or have a day for him, all of which are ideological. This is the source of these changes. Now, maybe you have another reason, like thinking that celebrating the life of a non-American is weird. I don't know but that would seem a little shallow and elitist, as if to say non-Americans should have nothing to offer Americans and should not be celebrated. I can't help but wonder though that it is an attempt to cover up the ideological and try to impress with reasons outside of the ideological to prove that it has no effect on you. I'm also putting out the idea that things don't happen in a vacuum and that if the only argument was that it's weird, you wouldn't be so deeply vested in getting rid of this holiday. It's like the feminist who's trying to say that we should get rid of father's day and then saying it has nothing to do with her ideology but more to do with some other vague reason.....like, it's weird. My issues with the left is that it has become ideological and rigid and that if you don't meet their standards of perfection, you must be vilified. That standard is completely arbitrary and anyone could be victims of its application. Find the flaw in the individual and then attack him/her for it. If you can't find the flaw, go to the one sure way to tear him down. Accuse him of a sex crime which must be believed. The flaws of Columbus were easy. The flaws of others might be a little harder to find but we still have the MeToo thing. You can always defeat the enemy that way. The new left has adopted a method to ensure compliance with their ways. The Columbus Day debate is only a small manifestation of how they think. Dare to step out of line and they will destroy you. It's a type of authoritarian rule that is based on group identity (celebrating the life of a non-American is weird, as an example) that is so powerful that there is no one immune to it's far reaching tentacles, including the most ardent left leaning ideologue. Just say the wrong thing and you could be their next victim.
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Sylvertaco Wow....one word arguments. That's deep. You are ignoring every thing I've said and then you claim strawman arguments. Maybe....just once, you might explain why they are strawman, instead of using an allegation. That is how we have a discussion. Explain the wrong in my stance. You have not given me one thing that gives a backup for your thoughts. I have, and you haven't commented on that. You refuse to admit it. You really have no idea what your objection is to having a Columbus Day holiday. You don't even know that you are stuck in ideological paradigm that says that you must object. "It's weird" That's it???.....that's all you've offered, "really weird" which is the heart of your position, which we both know that this is not it all....don't we?
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Sylvertaco The only reason that you've given for not having that holiday is a very simple "it's weird". That quite deep. I've tried to dig a little deeper but you'll have none of it. The "it's weird" is all you have. I don't believe that you're being all that honest about it....but I can't tell. You really won't say a thing, except...uh.....I don't know. It's weird. Really, REALLY weird. Weird is a little scary.
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Sylvertaco Wow...that is about the most smug and arrogant thing I've read in a long time. This whole thing came from a time when the average person had very little education and what they had was very limited. They learned the big moments of the past from the dozens of books, if they were lucky, that they had, and you have the absolute, unmitigated gall to call them "dumb". This was how, most of whom didn't get past a grade 5 type education, learned and appreciated the things of their history.....but they were "dumb". I suppose it was similar to my mom and dad, who back in the thirties, didn't get past grade 6 in school, dumb people.... or my grandparents, one of which left school when he was nine to go to work......what a dumb ass. It a simpler time. You are applying your.....OUR world view onto people who lived completely different lives than we do, but they're "dumb". My God. What absolute and complete arrogance. No respect for the past or for the lives they had to live. Just your own complacence and belief that you know how "dumb" the people of those times were. Wow....just Wow. Maybe, for just one moment, you could realise what life was like for those "dumb" people, you'd feel a little empathy for them and the lives that they had to endure. But no....they're just a bunch of "dumb" hillbillies. How arrogant.
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It may not mean that what he wants of the world. It may mean that it will be inevitable. If Jesus is speaking the truth, we're stuck with another truth, too. The truth hurts. People don't like being hurt and they may react with violence. Jesus said to love your neighbour, as well. However he didn't say that your neighbour would love you back. That could be what he meant when he said that his words weren't going to bring peace. One thing is certain. Loving your neighbour and turning the other cheek is quite at odds with that verse unless you understand it differently.
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@Jonsey-lm5sv There are people, who aren't considered attractive or who've been socially awkward, who become very resentful and bitter. They tend to associate with, especially on the internet, who've had the same life experiences and are equally as bitter. This affects how they think, which includes their politics. I have a nephew like that. He's extremely bitter and he lashes out at what he sees as favoured in society. The good looking ones, the ones with money or who seem to have lots of friends. Strangely, as a musician, he's had lots of people that fawn over him but it seems they're all of the same mindset. His music reflects his bitterness and his followers love this. This also reflects in his political views. He's anti everything, a Marxist anarchist. There's no appreciation for anything...just bitterness.
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irishque halim It was never a Palestinian state, either. In 1516, the Ottoman Turks conquered the region and it belonged the Ottoman Empire until the end of WW1. It was overtaken by Egypt in 1832 and land was given to Egyptian Arabs and soldiers in what is now coastal Gaza and Israel, the first of many migrations into the area including Jews. In 1840, Britain intervened and gave the land back to the Turks. The late 19th century saw the immigration of many Arabs and Jews into the region. The Arabs didn't mind if the immigrants were Muslim but they didn't want Jewish immigrants, but they came anyway. That is the crux of this entire problem. It's the religious problem. If the Jews would embrace Islam, there would be no issues in that region. After the WW1, Britain took over the region and held it for almost thirty years. That's when they offered the 2 state solution. Many of the citizens of the area had only had a history in the region for less than 100 years, yet the Arab immigrants were considered to be full Palestinians while Jews were not. That's why the 2 state solution was rejected by the Arabs, including Arabs from Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria, who really have no interest in the area except their rejection of anything Jewish. Once again, only Muslims were wanted by the local Arabs. What's troubling is that the same people that support Muslim immigration to Western countries, particularly Europe, reject Jewish immigration to the Levant. I'm seeing a double standard here. If there has never been a country in the area, ran by the locals, how could one segment of the locals feel that they only have the right to rule the area and to set immigration policies. Right now there are 1.8 million Muslims in what we now call Israel. They have been offered full citizenship and many have accepted the offer. They can vote, hold office, own land and businesses, have even joined the Israeli army and been elected to the Israeli Knesset. They enjoy a better life standard than the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank and what's even more perplexing is that the Palestinian leadership, Hamas, has received huge amounts of cash from oil rich Muslim countries, yet these countries have never even offered to take in Palestinians to live in their country. Strangely, places like the US has allowed them into their country. Activist, Linda Sarcour is Palestinian and living in New York. Where are the Palestinians that could be in Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States, Egypt, Jordan and other Muslim countries? This has everything to do with the religion of Islam and nothing to do with cooperation or understanding. The Muslims of the region must win. Calling them Palestinians is a red herring. It has nothing to do with Palestinians. It's about Islam....that's all.
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cixelsyd 00 I'm not doing it so much for him. I'm doing it for those who will read this thread and think that he must be correct because I never bothered to respond and award him the win through attrition. Some people will never be impressed with the facts. There's isn't a lot I can do for them. Others, more reasonable folk, will realise the value of a narrative that is supported by fact. I'm hoping that those facts will cause them to think about what I'm saying and they won't just rely on emotions. Emotions destroy intelligence. He throws emotional responses at us and feels that's enough to win an argument. It's not and I'm not going to let him or anyone think that it does.
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