Comments by "Eigelstein" (@Eigelstein) on "Upper Echelon"
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@ ""I'm fine with slipping down the slope just let me know when I get to rock bottom" how about not letting it get to that point...""
Yeah, but that is what the slippery slope fallacy is. You assume that you are on a slope, but you have yet to prove it.
I don't think that one guy being gay, which is a very common occurrence in RPGs, is equal to WHS going full woke and turning their backs on their core vision.
And as to it being Henry being gay (optionally), who cares. You could do all sorts of awful things as that character and still have the exact same ending as someone who played him as a paragon of chivalry. No consequences at all.
Look man, I played KCD in 2018. I didn't like it, but I respected the vision, so I wish I liked it. If you played it and liked it enough to be hyped for the sequel, then just buy it if you can afford it. I decided to not buy TLOU 2 and spoiled the game for myself, so now I can't play it anymore and I kind of regret that. Regardless of whether I would have liked it or not.
And about the guy having a dumb reaction. Again, who cares? It's social media, it's par for the course. Same with an investor forcing stuff into a game, just be glad it's not micro transactions or coloured loot.
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@ "Is it truly fallacious when it's an observable trend within the market?"
Yes, because correlation does not equal causation. You can show certain aspects of a slippery slope, but that does not make it a slippery slope, especially if it concerns one optional romance.
"However, I think the broader consensus is that we don't really need to retcon characters who have established arcs."
But Henry doesn't really have one. He is more of a vault dweller RPG character and less of a Gerald of Rivia. His past is set, but everything after that becomes rather fuzzy due to player input. You could proclaim your love to Theresa but also sleep around. You could murder an entire village at night but still receive the same ending as a paragon of chivalry and justice. Heck, as far as I am aware, you could play KCD as an asexual character. You didn't need to pursue romantic interests or intercourse.
As far as I am aware, there isn't anything in the first game that would truly exclude Henry or Hans from being gay. Although I will admit that it is a stretch, albeit one that bents the setting, not break it. But again, it is optional.
"The forced diversity isn't true diversity." Agreed. But just be glad it isn't stuff that would actually be harmful, like microtransactions and coloured loot.
"it doesn't add anything other than catering to perverted fantasies."
Well, it is an RPG, so it adds roleplaying.
And homosexuality isn't a "perverted fantasy."
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@ "Take canonically straight Henry and an actual womanizer Hans..."
But Henry doesn't really have a canonically straight character. He is more of a vault dweller RPG character and less of a Gerald of Rivia. His past is set, but everything after that becomes rather fuzzy due to player input. You could proclaim your love to Theresa but also sleep around. You could murder an entire village at night but still receive the same ending as a paragon of chivalry and justice. Heck, as far as I am aware, you could play KCD as an asexual character. You didn't need to pursue romantic interests or intercourse.
As far as I am aware, there isn't anything in the first game that would truly exclude Henry or Hans from being gay. Although I will admit that it is a stretch, albeit one that bents the setting, not break it. But again, it is optional.
"Tell me then genius, why modders are banned on Nexus when they "optionally" remove the "optional" romances."
Firstly, yes I am a genius. Thank you for recognising that.
Secondly, I am a console peasant. I know nothing of modding and its intricacies.
Thirdly, since that romance is OPTIONAL, there is no need for a mod to remove it. And since such a creation gives off very strong homophobic vibes. I can understand that a company doesn't want to be associated with it.
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@oditeomnes "Take canonically straight Henry and an actual womanizer Hans..."
But Henry doesn't really have a canonical character. He is more of a vault dweller RPG character and less of a Gerald of Rivia. His past is set, but everything after that becomes rather fuzzy due to player input. You could proclaim your love to Theresa but also sleep around. You could murder an entire village at night but still receive the same ending as a paragon of chivalry and justice. Heck, as far as I am aware, you could play KCD as an asexual character. You didn't need to pursue romantic interests or intercourse.
As far as I am aware, there isn't anything in the first game that would truly exclude Henry or Hans from being gay. Although I will admit that it is a stretch, albeit one that bents the setting, not break it. But again, it is optional.
"Tell me then genius, why modders are banned on Nexus when they "optionally" remove the "optional" romances."
Firstly, yes I am a genius. Thank you for recognising that.
Secondly, I am a console peasant. I know nothing of modding and its intricacies.
Thirdly, since that romance is OPTIONAL, there is no need for a mod to remove it. And since such a creation gives off very strong homophobic vibes. I can understand that a company doesn't want to be associated with it.
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@michaelAnonymous I respect the time and effort. As such, I will respond to your conclusion. So, would I care? Somewhat. But the problem is that nothing comes for free. According to your unproven theory, Embracer needed money, and the government was happy to supply it with some strings attached. That is always going to be the case, whether it is privately or publically funded. That is why there won't be a Dead Space 2 remake, even though the first remake was great, because it didn't make enough money. Maybe if they shoved some b.s. monetisation schemes in there, things would have been different? But that would have compromised the artistic vision. It is a delicate balance between vision and investors.
Most importantly, Embracer wasn't forced to accept the money, they did so willingly, no? So what is the problem? What is dystopian? I care because I want artists to have artistic freedom. But would we say the same if a game that promoted N@ssi stuff was offered gov money on the condition that it had to tone that stuff down? I suddenly would care far less about those strings.
So I think this whole controversy is dumb, and looking at the sales, it is also irrelevant. In my opinion, there is enough leeway in KCD to provide an optional romance between Henry and Hans without compromising the original artistic vision. As such, I don't care.
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