Comments by "Winnetou17" (@Winnetou17) on "Gamers Nexus"
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I have some questions for AMD, though surely we'll never have an answer as their recent silence is already one answer for many of them.
Anyway, here it goes:
- Why was B550 so late ?
- Why was this support/compatibility annouced so late ? Wasn't it known when Zen 2 launched ? If not, when was it known ? Even so, wasn't a lack of guarantee known in advance ? Couldn't AMD give some warnings going forward ?
- When making the decision to absolutely not support any 3xx or 4xx chipsets for Zen 3 CPUs, were any board partners consulted ?
- Wasn't AMD aware that many customers are buying B450 specifically to upgrade to a Zen 3 CPU ? Why wasn't there any communication ?
- Why is AMD still so silent about the matter ? How could a customer not think that AMD simply pulled an Intel out of greed and/or lack of care ? That is, simply abandon a part of customers and move forward, because it's easier. How can an AMD fan have the benefit of the doubt now ?
- Seeing customers and media perception (especially seeing MSI promises) and not having any comment on them, any try to address the issue as soon as possible (so there's as little damage as possible), isn't AMD concerned that the whole community will be less trustful of ANY marketing and promise going further ? Isn't that a bigger price to pay than being honest and trying to work with the partners and the community ? Does anyone at AMD think it's ok to say now that "well, we only said Socket AM4 support, nothing about chipsets" ? How could the community at large realize the difficulty of providing this kind of support when no attempts at it were made and when AMD is being so shady ?
Sigh
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I'll sound very disrespectful, but this kind of a review (I know this is a refresh, it doesn't matter this time) is ... not good for this type of a CPU.
First thing: too much gaming benchmarks. It's a waste of time for everybody. Not even streamers should look for this CPU. So, gaming benchmarks for this kind of a CPU should be between none or at most 2 games, with several seconds of airtime.
The other thing: the productivity benchmarks... are too few. This kind of CPU is rarely for one person and rendering jobs are not everything. This kind of CPU is mostly used in servers. Besides rendering, there's also databases, of many kinds, applications, web servers and above all... virtual machines. That photoshop score was kind of meh. But how does it do with 6 photoshop at once, each in a different virtual machine ? How about 7 ? Or 8 ? How does the threadripper or R9 3950 fare in this ? How many queries per second can it do ? Requests per second ? How much RAM can it have ? How well does it run a special algorithm ? Or another algorithm, but in 50 instances ? Or Docker container farms ? In this video, W-3175X won confortably the 7-Zip compression benchmark. How many other applications/workloads does it win in ? Probably not many, if any. But we don't know. And this video sheds way too little light.
If you start to factor all the things said above, you start to realize that this kind of a review misses the point for this kind of a CPU. It spends too much time on benchmarks that are not relevant, misses a lot of benchmarks or workloads that are relevant, and I guess it also kind of speaks to the wrong audience. All in all I think this is just mostly a time waster. The folks at the big corporations that buy these CPUs don't decide based on this review. And those of us who look at this never buy something like this.
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@alittlelooney5361 How can't you understand the hate ? It's been 11 months of having only X570 chipset capable of supporting Zen2 and Zen3, with everybody (very reasonably) believing that B450 chipset boards will support Zen 3 too, especially since B550 is never to be seen. If someone bought a Ryzen5 3600 two months ago, planning to upgrade to a Ryzen7 4700, with no need of PCI-E 4.0, tell me how could you know that you DO need X570 ? Or why would you spend the extra money on a X570, for 0 benefits ?
AMD delayed B550 by one entire year, and they didn't told anything about Zen3 only working on 500 series chipsets. If they either a) announced last year that Zen 3 needs 5xx chipset or b) released B550 when Zen2 launched, then this wouldn't be such an issue now. But, as it stands, AMD just s****ed in the plans and decisions of a lot of their customers, including people who actually paid attention at what they are buying. AMD deserves most of the hate they're getting now.
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On the Zen5 rumor, another serial leaker (which, while I don't always agree with what he says, his leaks are pretty solid) - the YT channel "Moore's Law is Dead" specifically said that it's NOT 40% and that everybody is wrong on that. To his sources, it's 16-24% IPC increase, and the clock speeds seem to be mostly similar. And I firmly believe him on this one.
40% increase is either a) very cherry picked, b) totally wrong or c) gigantic, almost unseen, gen-to-gen improvement. The last time that has happened is from Buldozer to Zen 1, which was also 4 years, not just 2. And it was from a rather bad architecture to begin with, while here the "previous gen" is already very good and advanced on all fronts. To put it shortly 40% my @$$
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@davidereverberi5279 You didn't understood what I wrote. It's because Skylake (and before) doesn't have the hardware mitigations that Comet Lake has which makes it kind of an IPC increase. It's basically just much less of a penalty to the IPC on Comet Lake than it is on Sky Lake.
Next, you have to add that on top of Sky Lake IPC improvement over Haswell. Here's a review from when 6700K was fresh: https://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation
You can see there, near the bottom, that it says 5.7% IPC over Haswell on Sky Lake with DDR 3, and 6% IPC increase when Sky Lake was on DDR 4. That was quite low, buuut, that was with DDR 4 on 2133 MT/s, the lowest most basic DDR 4. Which was normal back then, as it was new. Now, with 3200-4400 MT/s being the norm, with nice timings, that should be easily at least another 5%.
All three combined should add up to about 20%. That is, from Haswell to Comet Lake.
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Completely agree. Given how many bad examples exist, I think this intel generation going with 10000 is, by far, the least offender. It is annoying, but it has certain key features: it's consistent and predictable with the established pattern. Also, it's (again) just an iteration. Absolutely no need to get a new name for this. They could work on the K, X, XE, F, S OMFG letters in the back though.
Oh, and in their mobile lineup, those names are pretty bad. 10710G7 ? What ? (don't know if I remembered a correct name, but you get the idea).
10700K ? The i7 model following the 9700K ? Yeah, perfectly fine.
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