Comments by "1IbramGaunt" (@1IbramGaunt) on "#IWM100Years - HMS Belfast and the Yangtse River incident" video.

They had legitimate reasons for being there, as he says in the video she was guarding our embassy
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@youngnd5808 ships can't just dissappear from one place and reappear in another, and regardless of any warnings they may or may not have been given, the ship's orders from their OWN government were to defend their own damn embassy WHICH WAS STILL THERE, they weren't leaving until ordered to and that was that and even if they HAD received such orders it would've taken them time to reach international waters
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@youngnd5808 also if you're as it would appear a loyal citizen of modern Communist China you don't think you're perhaps gonna be a little biased in your point of view here?
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@ngocha-xt4ec so? Completely different incident under completely different circumstances, if it actually happened at all given Communist China's interpretations of history
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@zenithzero6354 not on a whim, not if they had specific orders not to open fire unless certain of the target vessel's identity, allegiance and intentions and they KNEW what side the ship was on, naval officers are held responsible for the actions of the ship and crew under their command and therefore do not undertake any such action without thinking it over first
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@youngnd5808 well we at least agree there's a need to argue haha. HMS Amethyst was doing exactly what she was supposed to be doing, what she'd been ordered to do, sail up the river and watch over the British Embassy, that's all; and she had enormous British flags draped over her hull to clearly tell the Chinese on BOTH sides exactly who they were, the flags of a neutral power, clearly visible the entire time- yet the red Chinese opened fire anyway
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@youngnd5808 and you make fake islands in the South China Sea so you can claim ownership of other country's territory according to ancient maps you conveniently found, at least what we've got from other countries we're not claiming was ours all along pal
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@youngnd5808 the 'certain country' in question could only be Britain I assume and the just, honourable Chinese would NEVER stoop so low though, right?
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@youngnd5808 are you being fucking serious right now?! What country do you think we're talking about here?!
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@youngnd5808 I don't have to 'try' anything if I'm entirely correct, YOU'RE the one who has to 'try' and make me SEEM in the wrong not the other way round, history has continued to prove us right (outside your borders) so far
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@youngnd5808 almost isn't the same as did my friend, we didn't 'almost' beat China twice in the Opium Wars, we DID, although to avoid confusion I suppose I'd better point out that was the old Imperial Chinese
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@youngnd5808 there are and were two Chinese governments and to all intents and purposes two China's, the original Republic Of China or ROC which, now in effective exile in what's now called Taiwan, is the last holdouts of the old Nationalist Chinese, and on the mainland the so-called 'People's' Republic Of China or PROC, better known as, yes, 'Communist China' or 'Red China' throughout the rest of the world DUE TO BEING RUN BY COMMUNISTS
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@ngocha-xt4ec by your logic it's justifiable to quote one completely separate historical event to evade responsibility for another. That ship was there completely lawfully whether you want to admit it or not and she didn't bombard anything till she was bombarded HERSELF first, THAT'S the difference. If a Chinese ship was in the Thames to defend THEIR embassy, and if she had legitimate orders to do so, and if the banks of the Thames were disputed territory at the time during a British Civil War, and if British artillery, belonging to the side in that civil war that was NOT supported by the Chinese government as the legitimate government OF Britain, then opened fire on HER without warning? That ship would have every right to fire back and I doubt you'd dispute that
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@ngocha-xt4ec yeah sure, a city that would've been under a completely different government in a completely different era and was shelled for completely different reasons, THAT was why they did it? In the unlikely event that pile of horseshit's true, why the hell did the Chinese try to claim the BRITISH fired first for so long then? If in their eyes it was a justified act why didn't they come straight out and admit they DID do it, and why, at the time?
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@ngocha-xt4ec yeah? So? I still don't see how that connects with a completely different event over 20 years later, and trust me had the situations been reversed I highly doubt the Chinese would've been exactly noble angels of justice
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@ngocha-xt4ec as for what we 'all know', OUTSIDE of the glorious worker's utopia/dystopian mass-murdering hellhole that is the 'People's' Republic Of China? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amethyst_Incident
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Because we didn't have any available and they're a short-range fighter aircraft? These ships were on their own in foreign waters, out of range of friendly airbases or aircraft carriers
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@zenithzero6354 the Chinese fired first, they started it. If you know what's good for you, don't shoot at the British as we tend to shoot back and we've a lot of experience doing so
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@ngocha-xt4ec yeah? Probably seemed like a justified thing to do at the time, they shouldn't have but obviously we're judging it with the benefit of nearly a century of hindsight and our respective strong national biases, if I'd been in command I might have done the same myself in the heat of the moment, as far as the British were concerned their fellow Royal Navy warship was being held captive, they wanted that ship released, they were angry and they needed to show the Chinese they weren't taking no for an answer. Simple as that. Still doesn't mean any of that was justification for what happened in 1949 or the reason FOR the Chinese opening fire, when the Chinese finally admitted to firing first in 1988 they said they'd thought Amethyst was an AMERICAN ship
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@ngocha-xt4ec well we don't consider armed conflict involving warships, soldiers, sailors and heavy artillery to BE a 'massacre' here, we lost a lot of guys to the Chinese in the Korean War after they decided to suddenly get involved in a foreign war that had nothing to do with them and started sending vast human wave attacks at us, you don't hear us crying foul about that do you, war is war. I am sorry so many civilians died in that incident but these things sadly happen, tens of thousands of British and German civilians died in air-raids on cities in WW2, doesn't mean all RAF and Luftwaffe bomber pilots are murderers. As it is though I do wish I could go back in time and stop those incidents from happening, can't though sadly, and well glad to hear you don't hate us because while I'm none too fond of your present government, their politics and some of the stuff they've done I have nothing against the Chinese people themselves myself either
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@primuszorn2907 alright, you wanna go there let's go there. As I said to the other Chinaman if a non-British warship had been in the Thames they'd either have every legitimate and lawful right to be there and the paperwork to prove it, as Amethyst did, 'wandering' my arse, or they'd have been sunk before getting anywhere near. As for recognising that Orwellian nightmare you call a country as 'legitimate' as far as I'm concerned you're still NOT, but my government has chosen to do so and unlike with the glorious leader now known as 'Winnie The Poo' one man's opinion is not enough to decide policy here. As for the American Revolutionary War yeah we lost, ONCE, literally the only major war we have in a fucking MILLENNIUM and I've lost count of the number of humiliating defeats CHINA'S had in that time but yeah we did, wup-dee-fucking-doo. No-one actually knows WHO officially fired first in that conflict though, but since that figurative first shot of that war is still called "the shot heard around the world" I think you'll find who fired first often kinda DOES matter, and it clearly did in the Amethyst incident too- otherwise why lie about who DID fire first until nearly 40 years later
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@primuszorn2907 as for 'just fled' who exactly suffered the more casualties in this incident, as your fellow countryman was so eager to point out? Yes, it was a successful retreat, as in NOT A DEFEAT, i.e. the British got safely home with all their ships and most of their men having inflicted over 250 Chinese casualties, and if you wanna crow over the British 'fleeing' from you so be it but surely that also means your mighty People's Liberation Army completely FAILED to actually sink, capture or destroy a single, disabled, temporarily stranded British warship that was, for a time completely at your mercy
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@primuszorn2907 as for an 'Imperialist' tone trust me you haven't heard anything yet lol, and it may be true the Empire and, indeed Britain herself are not what they once were but while just one true British patriot draws breath the idea of it can never die. In the meantime we also still have at least 14 separate overseas territories so the Empire never actually completely went away ANYWAY, and some pretty important allies too including former Commonwealth countries who, while doing pretty well for themselves now, still proudly fly our flag in the corner of theirs for a REASON, not everyone has such disdain for the Brits back in the good old days as you do
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@primuszorn2907 I said MAJOR war, never said that was the only one we lost full stop, I consider the war of 1812 a draw and all the others either involved other parties anyway like WW2 or just weren't really all that important in the big picture. Name me one other large major conflict we outright lost in that time, no question of it?
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@primuszorn2907 as for 'hilarious' if national pride is hilarious you and those who consider it to be are the real reason this world is the way it is right now, and why countries who still HAVE that national pride despite you are the ones that will survive the wars to come
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@primuszorn2907 and who said it WAS a victory, "wars are not won by evacuation" after all, just said it wasn't a defeat either
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I think they just want to connect the Belfast to this event as it's an intact museum-ship we still have and all the other ships involved are long gone
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