Comments by "Gareth Hart" (@tgheretford) on "Memeable Data" channel.

  1. Dating for straight attractive men is like a buffet. Dating for straight women is like shopping. Dating for straight average men is like finding an oasis in a desert. Dating for straight unattractive men is over.
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  2. People have to realise that dating apps are a profit-making business and so how that app is designed is done to maximise profit.
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  3. You're not going to have any real life success unless you have a social circle who know other single people within their circle. And that becomes practically impossible when you hit your mid-thirties onwards because everyone has partnered up, get married and raise children. Also, single people tend to be left out of social gatherings because they don't gel with everyone else who is coupled up. Even online, the vast majority of people meet in social groups via social media and instant messaging groups, not via online dating.
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  4. ​ @meowththatsright7881  There are two rules. Rule 1: Be attractive. Rule 2: Don't be unattractive. Creepiness (and increasingly, criminality as new laws to protect women from such behaviour come in) is determined by your perceived attractiveness. Hence the recent "gym creep" trend of perceived unattractive men being in the presence of a woman deemed to be offensive and unwanted.
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  5. If you don't have a social circle with people who know other single people, you're in big trouble. It gets far worse when you approach middle age as you tend to be the last one standing while everyone else is partnered up, married and raising children.
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  6.  @yakovbrod9992  The dating market is probably the most unequal, brutal, cruel, merciless and savage market we have because it reflects dating. And there is no appetite from the public to change it.
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  7. I call online dating the commodification of love and relationships where everyone is treated as a consumable product that you can return if you're not 100% satisfied.
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  8. It gets worse as you get older because your social circle declines as people pair up, get married and raise children. Social gatherings tend to be geared toward couples. And you end up being the last one standing with no options left other than to remain alone and make the best of it. It is a terrible pill to swallow for all the men who were sold the idea of focusing on career, fitness and independence until their mid-30s and then suddenly find that they've been sold a lie, hit their forties and post videos on YouTube warning young men not to do this because while they may have an apartment, car and a job, they won't have a partner.
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  9. When the game is rigged, the only winning move is to not play.
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  10.  @sam5992  I've seen many an anecdote to suggest that there are women who leave their man when they can no longer provide for them or their family. Works both ways. There are men who do this, there are also women who do this. This is not a competition.
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  11. A lot of the behaviours you describe will soon be criminal offences under the Online Safety Bill in the UK and other countries will have their own law. Right down to unwanted communication (ie. having to reject someone and unrequited love). Dating apps are going to have to vet their users or if a crime is committed on their app, face being fined up to 10% of their worldwide revenue.
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  12. One thing to note in the paper you presented at the end which detailed that meeting online is the way most people meet their partner (just - barely over 50%), that applies to the Internet as a whole. From another survey (can't recall its exact name atm) which asked how they met online, only 10% of the people who said they met their partner online had met via online dating. Despite what people think, online dating is still a minority pursuit. Most people meet via closed social groups online via social media and instant messaging apps like WhatsApp and Discord. A friend told me that the biggest dating site on the Internet is not Tinder, its Instagram.
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  13.  @rocknrollresignation93  jUsT lIFt BrO. Funny how the same people who say "just be yourself" then give completely contradictory advice that would radically change you.
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  14. There was a recent study covered by Sky News in the UK a few days ago when Tinder publicly stated that it was a social networking app and never designed as a dating app. Around two thirds of people on dating apps are in relationships and only half are only there to network and not date.
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  15.  @eimantasbutkus5324  You don't play a rigged game you're guaranteed to lose. You change the rules or play a better game.
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  16. Even unattractive and overweight women are doing far better than the average man on dating apps.
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  17. Not according to the data I have seen from evolutionary psychologists. If anything, most people are meeting online (just over 50% from recall) but only a small minority meet via dating apps. Most meet through closed social groups (like instant messaging) or social media. Someone told me that the most successful dating app is not Tinder, but Instagram.
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  18. There are more single men than single women in real life. Edinburgh University did a study on this before online dating took off and found that to be the case. Nothing has changed. The vast majority of people meet in closed social groups, online and offline. Online dating is actually a niche avenue to meet someone. People also don't like being approached by strangers in real life too and subsequently we've seen a loss in avenues for people to meet in real life. The remaining social establishments left have behaviour codes and don't condone men approaching women they don't know. The problem we have in society is because people lack social circles, particularly as they get older and everyone else pair off, marry and start families.
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  19. They did in a way. It's called Bumble. Where women have to make the first move. All that happened is that a good number of women sent one word replies to all the men so men still had to effectively make the first move. Both men and women prefer men to make the first move, hence why such an app hasn't taken off to dethrone Tinder or the social media apps.
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  20. Uncomfortable truths have a way of making people uncomfortable with what they say.
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  21. The "just touch grass bro" crowd do need calling out because they assume the dynamics of dating change in real life. Online and real life have the same evolutionary pressures and there are plenty of studies from evolutionary psychologists to demonstrate this. The "just lift bro" crowd also need to acknowledge that their solution is not the cure for all ills and if you're jacked yet without a social circle, you'll still end up in the same situation as the man who is obese.
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  22. That would be an excellent way for you to be booted out by security for harassment at best. People do not want to be approached by strangers, even in social establishments now, as people tend to socialise within closed social groups or if alone, want to be left alone, no matter how friendly you are.
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  23.  @Gmuddy34  That's ironic because that was a trend a while ago of single women going into DIY stores to look for eligible men. Problem was, they were not finding the men employing the contractors who were buying supplies there! Also, "just be positive bro" is not a solution. A lot of that advice asks people to aim for the point of delusion.
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  24. I see a lot of anecdotes from men who focused entirely on their life, focused on career, fitness, fun and independence until their mid-30's. They were lied to when they were told they would be guaranteed to find a partner by then. Now they're in their forties and making YouTube videos warning younger men not to wait because it ruined their lives. If you don't have a social circle in your twenties, you're in trouble. If you don't have one in your thirties, you're in BIG trouble as everyone by then has partnered up, got married and are raising kids. Social gatherings are geared toward couples and you'll be left out as the last one standing.
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  25. For many men, that would dramatically decrease their prospects of having any matches. Although it's increasing becoming that you can't get any lower than zero for said men nowadays.
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  26. This is the paradox. Men who are single for a period of time tend to be passed up for men who are in relationships because of pre-selection and experience. How many times do you hear men say that they got more attention from women the second they had a girlfriend? Being attractive to someone makes you more attractive to others. It is this that married men used to their advantage for a mistress and why divorced men have better outcomes with dating compared to their long term single counterparts.
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  27. Men and women are being told to treat each other as enemies or rivals as opposed to contributors to the same team. Women being told that all men are potential threats to your life. Socially awkward and lonely men with no criminal intent now face the real prospect of having their lives destroyed as women are also being encouraged to report unwanted communication, unrequited feelings and mishaps to authorities such as the Police and HR under new and existing laws (20% of women would report someone according to DatePsychology) and dating apps will soon have a duty to vet men to comply with new online safety laws in the west.
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  28.  @early20s18  And soon arrested because laws are coming to deal with such behaviour.
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  29. Uncomfortable truths don't need a label. They're just the truth.
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  30. - "If you can’t handle me at my worst, then you don’t deserve me at my best"
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  31. And yet I keep being told by many commentators on here that only men send "toxic messages". Turns out that happens both ways. And I've seen a good number of anecdotes where women have been cruel and scathing in their initial message to men they don't find attractive and don't want on the platform.
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  32. So do self-help grifters, psychiatrists and OnlyFans models. Monetising loneliness has become a gold seam for a good number of people who wish to exploit them.
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  33. ​ @onebridge7231  Generally, most people don't partner up with strangers, they tend to stay within their social circles, for example, starting a relationship with a friend of a friend. Even online with the world at your fingertips. Stranger to stranger dating is actually a much rarer and more novel concept.
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  34.  @alex36265503  All age groups until people in their 70s when things reverse because women have a longer life expectancy.
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  35. Is the suggestion that men who are not succeeding on dating apps are dangerous and a threat to all women? Because if a man made such an insinuation regarding women in a similar manner, there would be no hesitation for that man to be called a sexist.
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  36. For men, it's the lack of choice (unless you're highly attractive). For women, it's the paradox of choice. From what I have seen, even the most unattractive women have more options than the average man. Something I have seen personally in real life, not just through online dating.
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  37. You'll struggle in real life too. The majority of people in society meet their partner early on in closed social groups at high school, further education or as young adults at parties, gatherings or establishments like bars or nightclubs or increasingly now online via social media and instant messaging groups.
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  38. The only winning move in a rigged game is to not play the game.
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  39. You've always had in history a very small percentage of men who would prey on vulnerable women for criminal intent. What used to happen is that if a man stepped out of line, he got a slap around the face, embarrassment, status knocked down but it would only be temporary and he would learn his lesson. Now she is being encouraged to report even clumsiness, awkwardness and unrequited feelings to the Police, HR or authority (20% would in a recent survey done by DatePsychology) and his life could be destroyed - loss of job, loss of home, loss of reputation or worse. Worse still, feminists are telling other women that men should be treated as dangerous threats to their life in a way that if a man said that to other men about women, there would be uproar and that man would be cancelled.
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  40.  @tenno777  You believe that all men are dangerous?
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  41. Everyone else is too scared to do it for good reason, not because of a lack of social skills, but because it can get you fired or even arrested for unwanted communication or harassment under existing and new policies/laws that are being introduced in workplaces and in public. To the point in the UK with forthcoming new harassment laws that will have dating sites and establishments like bars and nightclubs vet their clients in order to prevent any law breaking. If you're someone who may cause offence, harassment or be rejected, you will be refused custom because the alternative will be costly to that business.
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  42. You'd have more luck finding a partner throwing banknotes into a burning pit than you would from subscribing to a premium subscription tier.
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  43. Except that 99.99% of men are not dangerous individuals who would harm a woman. Unless, the definition of what is deemed a dangerous individual is watered down considerably right down to men you have to reject, unrequited loves and unwanted communication and behaviour (what is deemed "creepy" or the modern parlance of the "ick"). Then all of a sudden, the majority of men are dangerous. We need to get out of this mindset that men are dangerous in general and to stop bringing in new laws that makes social awkwardness and ineptitude a crime.
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  44.  @Julia3455-r5l  The one exception fallacy. One exception does not invalidate the rule.
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  45.  @Julia3455-r5l  I thought my original post was straightforward. Could you please quote what you are referring to, please?
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  46.  @Julia3455-r5l  That doesn't mean that all short people are Tom Cruise. One exception does not invalidate the rule. Otherwise by that logic, heterosexuality is a myth because gay and lesbian people exist.
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  47.  @sosmooth13  Same principle as ladies nights in pubs and nightclubs. Ladies get in for free but men have to pay. And it comes back to supply and demand rather than chivalry. Dating apps want to attract women to their apps but don't want 'freeloading' men because there's loads of them.
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  48.  @jellyyoga4255  Calling anything you don't like 'incel rhetoric' is not an argument. It's no different from the religious fundamentalists who call atheists sinners who will spend an eternity in hell.
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  49. Unpartnered women only outnumber unpartnered men in their 70's. At that point, women are likely to be widowed and unwilling to betray the vows of their departed married partner. Regardless of age, women hold all the aces when it comes to the dating market for numerous nuanced reasons.
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  50. This is more of vindication of black pill philosophy to be fair. The red pill community will just tell you to "lift harder bro" and "touch grass bro".
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  51. I've seen a good number of YouTube videos from men in their forties who focused on their life - career, social circle, fitness, independence - until they were 35 then went dating and ended up with nothing warning other men not to do this because they will end up alone. And the data I have seen regarding this strategy correlates with these men's experiences.
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  52. Yes. Though I would go by the concept of ideas, not people (or labels). A review by DatePsychology on YouTube of black pill statements and the scientific studies they reference shows that they do know what they're talking about and that nature is pretty cruel and brutal when it comes to dating, to the point that we create coping mechanisms in the same way we treat mortality.
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  53. I've known about this problem for many years, but this topic and findings tend to be dismissed as "manosphere incel extremist rhetoric" by mainstream commentators who refuse to acknowledge the uncomfortable truths this video and others have found with logic, rationality, facts and evidence.
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  54. One flaw in your advice - people generally don't meet strangers and don't want to be approached by strangers. The majority of people meet in closed social circles. The problem with the people using online dating is that they likely don't have a closed social circle or everyone they know is partnered up in long term relationships and there are no other single people they know. Particularly a problem in your thirties onward when everyone is pairing off, marrying and starting families while you are the last one standing, regardless of fitness, hobbies, hygiene and so forth. There are plenty of forty-something men on YouTube who will vouch for this.
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  55. A lot of people make the mistaken belief that people meeting online is down to exclusively online dating. From the data I have seen, it's a small minority of those who have met someone online. The majority who met someone online did so via social media and in particular, closed social groups. I've had someone say to me that the most successful dating app is not Tinder, its Instagram.
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  56. Predominately closed social groups. Online and offline.
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  57. If every man became the top 1%, they are now the average, the bar rises even higher and there is a new top 1%.
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  58. ​ @nooneknows7268  Is the only valid avenue to be a man is to be someone who is seen as attractive to a partner? What about the men without partners who have given us inventions and concepts that have changed humanity for the better, allowed us all to improve our quality of life and progress? But they're failures because they didn't have a girlfriend or wife?
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  59. ​ @ALLOFTHEBOOST  Psychologists are using the trend of men failing to find partners as a gold seam for profit and you have self-help gurus telling men that when they hit their thirties and forties, as long as they "just lift bro", "just touch grass bro" and "just improve bro", that they will be swimming with attention from women. And yet I see men in their forties on YouTube, warning younger men, that while going to the gym, having hobbies, a career, independence and so forth are not bad things, they are not the miracle cure they claim to be. There's a lot of profiteering from lonely men and there is now also legislation being introduced which will make unwanted communication and unrequited feelings leading to having to reject that person being criminalised under new laws. The one thing missing from the conversation is social contact. Which gets a lot more difficult in your middle ages and older because your closed social circle you had in your younger years are all pairing off, marrying and starting families. And it becomes very difficult to meet new people because people tend to not want to be approached by strangers and the social groups and dating events for lonely people have largely, if not totally gone, particularly since "the event".
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  60. It'll soon be zero percent because "creepy" behaviour will have to be stopped under new online safety laws coming to the west and dating apps will have to vet men before they can join or risk losing up to 10% of their worldwide revenue in a fine.
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  61. It is known that Tinder does change the amount it charges depending on their demographics and how attractive they are to the platform or if they wish to treat them like a cash cow. So much so that the law has had to intervene in a few places to tell them to knock it off.
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  62. Vetting is coming to dating apps, but that's because Governments are implementing online safety laws which will make them vet anyone who could break the new laws being introduced or face losing up to 10% of their worldwide revenue in fines.
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  63.  @oolacilesbotnet6564  Not according to the data I have seen from evolutionary psychologists. The majority of people do meet online (just) but it's predominately in closed social circle groups online and offline. Online via social media and instant messaging groups such as WhatsApp and Discord, online dating is a small percentage of the way people met someone else.
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  64. I'm seeing quite a fair bit of misandry in the comments that wouldn't look out of place on Female Dating Strategy.
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  65. Incels have always existed. There has always been a minority of men who have never had a partner, never become a father and live alone for their whole life. The only three ways you can deal with it is enforced partnerships such as arranged marriage or state sanctioned partners, which would be deemed sexist and unpalatable, live with them being a reality in society, another increasingly unpalatable concept or what is increasingly gaining support, remove them from society - likely and legally through new laws which will make being single and without a partner a crime.
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  66. When there is a shortage, people do desperate things. Think toilet roll in 2020.
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  67. Just over half of people met online. But only around 10% of that percentage met on dating apps. Most people meet in closed social groups.
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  68. There are statistically more single men than women. That imbalance only changes once you get to people in their seventies when men's lower life expectancy switches the ratio around.
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  69.  @blindbrad4719  Third wave and onward feminism started to denigrate men (there are those who argue even further back in the history of feminism) which ultimately led to a push back. Which is why Andrew Tate is the notorious idol he is today to a number of young men.
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  70. You knew the truth about dating for a while now. Must be nice being vindicated.
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  71.  @life4trinity  Dating in general. It was published as a story by Sky News four days ago.
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  72. ​ @Ludo045  It's very difficult to be a stranger attempting to fit into an existing social circle. Particularly as you get older when everyone around you is partnering up, having children and getting married yet you are the last one standing and no longer get invited to social gatherings because you are devoid of a plus one and the only options for socialising are in interests with people of the same sex as you. If there is someone of the opposite sex, they will have a long term partner. There's a reason why there is a glut of forty-something men posting how lonely they are and how they didn't expect to end up this way on YouTube.
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  73. Spoiler alert - the issues that affect people with online dating also carry into real world dating too.
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  74. Shadowbanning isn't just a problem on dating apps, it also applies to comments (but not always replies) on video-sharing platforms. Isn't that right, YouTube?
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  75. Pornography is being banned de facto when age verification laws come in. The second age verification comes in, the sites close access. Eventually VPN's will also be targeted. Ultimately we are going to see an attack on any form of solo sexuality and the redefinition of legal sexuality being that between two consenting adults. Being an "incel" - a.k.a. being a single male who is not succeeding in the dating market - will become a crime under forthcoming new laws.
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  76. Evolution, which informs the whole dating market, does not care about someone's feelings. Nor does science and models, they just care about the data that is fed in and the conclusion that comes from the scientific method. And this model matches other findings, including from actual Tinder data itself, that most men get no matches. Not because they're dangerous threats to women, but because of the imbalance and gross unfairness of the dating market (also applies in real life) and several other nuanced factors. If the dating market was measured as an economy, it would be one of the most unequal economies in the world!
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  77. There are people who warn against online dating, myself included. The problem is, they either get lost in the noise of the Internet or at worst, get smeared and labelled. But when I did my own research into digging into the data, I came to the conclusion that the cost vastly outweigh any potential benefits. I stopped using them in 2016 and never looked back. One of the best decisions I ever made. And with forthcoming new laws and requirements for dating app firms to comply, it's only going to get worse for those still chancing their luck on them.
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  78. ​ @notanotherone5564  There is this growing sentiment that the gym is the cure for all ills. This isn't an argument against going to the gym, but I do think it is being grossly oversold. If the gym is vitally important to someone's physical, mental and social status, we would treat a gym membership in the same way as holding down a job where you can expect stigma, social and state intervention if you don't have one and are fit to work. Yet we don't.
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  79. If rejection is a gateway to extremism, how do you deal with rejection? In any other situation, Governments would be implementing legislation and monitoring of anyone who got rejected... ...never mind, the UK Government already did that as part of its CONTEST 2023 anti-terror strategy it announced on the 18th.
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  80. It is far more of the case that closed social groups via instant messaging and social media are becoming the norm, online dating is still a minority pursuit according to the latest data I have seen.
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  81.  @ThatAnnoyingBird  Let people suffer because they're lonely? Is this the "be kind" attitude that I keep being seen preached online?
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  82. Age isn't a major factor. The problems young men face are still the same problems middle aged men face, if not worse for long term single men because they're now also competing with divorced/married men with pre-selection and relationship experience that makes them a more attractive prospect. Plus, the whole men peak in attractiveness in their middle age is only applicable to the top tier of men, who probably don't need dating apps and won't have got there through all the advice given to young men from those stating this as fact.
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  83.  @Scooter110  Yes.
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  84. A lot? That would insinuate that unattractive men on average become predators. A dangerous and I suspect wrongful assumption that will criminalise a lot of innocent men whose only crime is to not have a partner.
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