Comments by "Mikhail M" (@mikhailmik) on "Max Afterburner"
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@klt479 The Boeing F-15EX Advanced Eagle will replace the F-15C/D fleet, whose average age is 37 years and which is beginning to experience, in the terminology of the US Air Force, "structural stresses". The first F-15EX aircraft of the US Air Force was received from Boeing Corporation in March 2021 and is the best aircraft of the 4th generation. Some experts consider the return of the US Air Force to the procurement of fourth-generation fighters as a statement of the failure of the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II, which turned out to be too expensive. The latter, in addition, in order to maintain low visibility, is not designed to carry a heavy missile and bomb load. The Americans are confident that the F-35 Lightning II and the F-15EX Advanced Eagle will work together — the fifth-generation fighter will detect the enemy and transmit target data to a more armed fourth-generation aircraft. For such a task, the Su-57 will work together with the S-70 drone. For the first time in the zone of a special military operation (SVO), the Russian Armed Forces used the Hunter strike and reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), which is the wingman of the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter. At low altitude, the UAV should be able to reach a speed of 1.4 thousand kilometers per hour, the flight range will be 5 thousand kilometers. To destroy radars, the Hunter can receive, in particular, a supersonic anti-radar missile of the X-58 air-to-ground class (with a flight range of about 260 kilometers). The X-35 subsonic low-altitude missile will be effective against naval targets. The Hunter can also receive four modified supersonic X-74M2 missiles and eight corrected KAB-250 bombs.
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@klt479 When they began to make the F-22 for the US Air Force, it turned out that the cost of one aircraft is $ 350 million.
This is how the F-35 aircraft was subsequently born, as a cheaper analogue.
And how to bring down the price of an aircraft for $ 350 million (F-22) to $ 180 million (F-35), while not losing in characteristics? No way.
You will definitely have to sacrifice something. So they sacrificed the requirements for the fifth generation of aircraft.
Essentially lowering the car to generation 4+ or 4++ maximum.
In other words, rewinding back to the level of the F-117 aircraft and those years.
And not one adequate military analyst and expert will call the F-35 a fifth-generation aircraft.
The cost of the F-35 is planned to be generally reduced to $ 80 million. for 1 piece.
How is that? Soon Americans will say that stealth is not important for the 5th generation. I twist and twist and want to confuse.
Although the F-35 program has broken all imaginable and unimaginable records in terms of cost.
The total cost of the F-35 program is projected at more than
1 trillion dollars over a 50-year service life.
But we are not going to seriously discuss corruption in the highest echelons of power in the states here.
6th generation aircraft
All that is being done in the United States is to fill the gap between the decommissioned and discontinued F-22 aircraft and the advertised F-35, which in fact and objectively do not reach the fifth generation.
And having released a newer and more expensive car against the background of the F-35, it can already be called the 6th generation.
Although undoubtedly it is still the 5th generation, or at best 5+.
As a result, we will see a hybrid between the F-35 and F-22, which will definitely be better in terms of the characteristics of the F-35, but at the same time there will be an attempt to bring down the price from 350 million. $ in a more comfortable direction.
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@klt479 It will have to be excluded from the fifth generation. F-22, F-35 did not grow up to it.
And why on earth should they be considered fifth-generation aircraft? They do not meet the requirements of the 5th generation aircraft.
But what are the requirements for such aircraft ? There is no single official document where this would be formulated. Neither we nor the Americans. There is nothing to talk about other countries capable of designing and producing combat aircraft. But unofficially they include:
Two generally recognized:
1. Cruising supersonic speed without afterburner;
2. Low visibility in the radar and infrared (thermal) ranges;
Mandatory according to US aviation specialists
3. availability of a circular information system;
4. Advanced avionics (avionics) with enhanced control automation and radar (radar station) with AFAR;
5. all-round firing of targets in the BVB (close air combat);
Mandatory according to Russian aviation specialists
6. supermaneuverability;
7. the cost of a flight hour is less than for generation 4+ aircraft.
I will consider all the parameters in more detail in the article "Su-57 and F-22 / F-35 Objective comparison", But we will evaluate the first two now.
1. Cruising supersonic speed.
This is so – advertising. For the F-22, for example, it was designated at 1800km/h. And they limited the duration of the flight at such a speed to 6 minutes, that is, you can make a throw of 180 km. For the F-35, they didn't even bother to call some supersonic cruising speed. As much as possible without afterburner, it can reach 1300km/h. Cheater! The old man MiG-25RB has a combat radius of 560km with acceleration from takeoff to 2500km/h and a 20km climb with four FAB-500t aerial bombs. And the F22 is only 6 minutes (180km) at a much lower speed. The F-35 is even smaller. After that – for repair.
I'm not kidding, here's a "proof" - an article in Defense news, the most knowledgeable defense publication in the United States. Yes, there are a whole bunch of articles describing the problems of the F22/35 at supersonic speeds. For the F-22, the destruction of the antennas of the radar radiation warning system and jamming located in the tail section. For the F-35A/B/C, these are problems with stability, and for the V/C variants and with the strength of the tail. Because of these problems, they were limited to supersonic speed values of 80c at M = 1.2 (1300km/h, 30km throw) or 40c at M = 1.3 (1425km/h, 16km throw). This does not mean that maximum speeds cannot be achieved. But this means that in this case the manufacturer disclaims responsibility.
American pilots say that if you choose between the danger of being shot down and the danger of damaging the plane, then the answer is obvious. Life, or rather, as Americans like to say - your own ass, is more expensive.
Conclusion. It is hardly possible to call a cruising speed, which can be maintained for no more than 6 minutes for the F-22 and no more than 40-80 seconds for the F-35. The requirement is not met.
2. Low visibility.
How important this parameter is for gaining air supremacy – military commentators of all media break spears about it, but in specialist circles they are well aware that the EPR values indicated by the manufacturer clearly cannot correspond to reality. Apparently, the Americans used a pigeon with bound wings for measurements. This is exactly the purpose of the EPR 0,001m2. Allegedly, because of such a small EPR and in order for them to be visible on the radars of other aircraft and ATC systems in peacetime, special radar reflectors in the form of a "Luneberg lens" are installed on the F22/35. This thing in this application should reflect the radar signal in the same direction from where it came, that is, back to the radar. And the stealth plane itself is just the opposite – anywhere but to the radar, well, so its creators and owners dream. But after all, what a quirk – the Luneberg lens should have the shape of a ball. It may be a ball, but inside, most likely, a metal case. The covers are probably composite. However, the body can also be composite, radio-transparent, but there are doubts that such frail cogs are able to keep the composite structure assembled at a high-speed pressure at a "peaceful speed" of M = 2 (2124 km / h).
So, we believe that this is a metal cylinder closed with two radio-transparent covers. This means that the lens receives/reflects the signal only forward/backward. That is, will the liners and the ATC be seen from the side without it? So this is exactly what unbiased analysts say – low visibility is optimized only in the direction of radar exposure from the front. Under any other angle > +-5 degrees from the longitudinal axis, the real EPR increases sharply. That is, if the "invisible" is flying exactly at the SAM or fighter, then other SAMs and planes will not work on it? Dreaming in this case is very harmful.
But we are interested in the fact that at supersonic speeds, the stealth coating peels off these aircraft. More precisely, not only on supersonic. The problem was still on the subsonic iron F-117A.
And on the subsonic B-2A, too, not everything is fine with this.
Destruction of the radio-absorbing coating on the B-2 Spirit bomber.
On the F-22, this has become a particularly serious problem.
Destruction of the RAM Coating coating and corrosion on the F-22 aircraft. The soil is under a peeling RAM Coating – a radio-absorbing coating.
We have accepted that the ground is yellow-green, there is a radical "sea wave". F-35 in the ground.
Three robots apply the coating and it takes three days.
The coating is very delicate, it can be damaged not only by high-speed pressure. Quote from Aviation week "In 2009, former Lockheed Martin engineer Darrol Olsen accused the company of applying several extra layers of radio-absorbing coating in order to hide that the film is easily erased under the influence of water, oil or fuel."
For aircraft maintenance, technicians use 7 types of gloves (!), shoe covers and protective suits.
Pay attention to the damage to the nozzle coating.
But you can't do without brute force in the "pit repair".
Who said that only Russians repair equipment with a hammer?
It should be understood that the stealth coating can be applied correctly only in factory conditions. And not dimpling, but completely cleaning the glider. This means that if such a coating is damaged on an airplane, then it either has to stop participating in a campaign or mission (the AUG campaign can be 6-8 months), or fly with damage and continue to accumulate them, losing stealth.
However, visible damage to RAM Coating is not the only coating problem. One of the experts, a retired US Navy officer and now an employee of the Hudson Institute, Brian Clark, in an interview with Defense News, said: - We are talking about a slow but sure loss of the thickness of the ferromagnetic-based radio-absorbing coating layer (with a sharp increase in EOP from 0.2 to 0.5 sq. m. m and more), as well as partial damage to the critically important distributed antenna aperture represented by the passive radio intelligence antennas of the AN/ASQ-239 "Barracuda" airborne defense complex in the tail section of the airframe during the flight of the F-35B/C even at low supersonic speed.
And of course corrosion. Where without her.
Conclusion – low visibility is very relative. Maybe it's not noticeable enough for American and Israeli radars. But not for Russian.
The result is that these flying blocks of gold have not grown up to be called 5th generation aircraft.
P.S. On May 15, an F-22 accident occurred at Eglin Air Base,
the fourth for the type with the complete destruction of the aircraft. Before that, two pilots were killed - Lieutenant Colonel David Cooley and Captain Jeffrey Haney.
And on May 19, there is also an F-35B. The third with complete destruction. Prior to that, the pilot from the Misawa base, Major Akinomi Hosomi, was killed.
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@klt479 Why don't you take into account the Su-35S generation 4+ fighter, which is now destroying all Ukrainian planes and helicopters with the R-37M. Russian factories have multiplied the production of missiles of various classes and types. Including the army is receiving a large number of almost hypersonic air-to-air missiles R-37M. The new Russian almost hypersonic air-to-air missile R-37M allows to shoot down fighters of the conditional enemy at the push of a button. The missile can easily cope with an F-22 Raptor fighter at a distance of up to 400 kilometers, should the need arise. Inconspicuous fighters of the 5th generation F-22A will not be able to intercept the Su-35S initiative in air battles at medium distances (30-80 km). As for long-range or ultra-long-range air battles at distances of 120-170 km, here, of course, all the trumps will be in the hands of the pilots of inconspicuous F-22A fighters. Having an effective reflecting surface of 0.07—0.1 sq. For example, the Raptors will be detected by Irbis-E onboard radars at a distance of 120-160 km, while the more noise-proof AN/APG-77 radars (even in a difficult interference situation caused by the operation of the Khibiny electronic warfare container complexes) will be able to locate the Su—35S (EPR about 2.5-3.5 sq. m) at a distance of 200-250 km. Consequently, the launch of long-range AIM-120D air combat missiles can be carried out from a distance of 170-180 km, while the Su-35S pilots will have to approach the Raptors up to the launch boundaries of RVV—SD missiles (at high altitudes — 110 km, at medium - 70-80 km), while simultaneously performing anti-missile maneuvers, or intercepting attacking AMRAAMs with their own RVV-SD. This alignment can only be changed by bringing operational combat readiness to the level as soon as possible and further integration into the weapons control systems of the combatant Su-35S of long-range guided air combat missiles "K-77M" (product 180) and it belongs to the air-to-air category and has an average range. The flight range of the new missile will be at least 190 kilometers, initially developed by specialists of the Vimpel ICD for multifunctional heavy fighters of the 5th generation Su-57. These missiles are equipped with more powerful and "long-playing" (with a thrust pulse of more than 250 s) dual-mode RDTT, thanks to which they retain decent energy and maneuverability qualities even on the terminal section of the trajectory (at distances of 130-140 km), establishing parity with the AIM-120D state air combat missiles.
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@klt479 There were shots of the defeat of the control point of the UAV and the place of residence of the AFU fighters by the Russian high-precision missile X-38. This is the answer to the delivered SCALP missiles.
The starting weight of the X-38 rocket, depending on the modification, is up to 520 kg.
Missiles of the X-38 family can be equipped with four types of guidance systems. At the same time, in all modifications there is an inertial guidance system responsible for launching the missile into a given target area. After reaching a predetermined milestone, the rocket must turn on and use a second guidance system. The following weapon variants are known to exist:
- X-38MLE. A rocket with inertial and passive laser guidance systems. It is intended for striking targets marked with a laser beam. Depending on the launch range, third-party targeting from a UAV or a reconnaissance group may be required.;
- X-38MAE. A rocket with an inertial and active radar GPS. After entering the target area, it is able to independently detect it using the built-in radar. External targeting is not required, the principle of "launched-forgotten" is implemented;
- X-38MTE. A rocket with inertial and thermal homing heads. According to the methods of application, it is similar to the X-38MAE, although it differs in equipment and principles of target search;
- X-38MKE. A rocket with inertial and satellite guidance systems. It is intended for strikes on stationary targets with previously explored coordinates. To determine its own coordinates and the location of the target, the rocket uses the GLONASS satellite navigation system.
According to official data, the X-38 family of missiles can carry three types of combat units.
1. High-explosive or penetrating can be equipped with modifications X-38MLE, X-38MAE and X-38MTE,
2. 2. X-38MKE carries a cluster warhead with submunitions. Depending on the modification, the warhead has a weight of up to 250 kg.
The destruction of manpower and unprotected enemy equipment can be carried out by high-explosive fragmentation or cluster warhead. To attack fortified buildings or bunkers, in turn, a penetrating warhead is offered. According to the data of the beginning of 2013, by now the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation has mastered the full-scale production of guided missiles of the X-38 family and has begun their delivery to the troops for use on stealth SU-57 aircraft.
With the adoption of the X-38, the Russian military aviation also had a satellite-guided missile.
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