Comments by "Juzu Juzu" (@juzujuzu4555) on "Is Linus Trolling The Linux Community?" video.

Try to install, configure and run without problems Windows assuming you have never used it before. It's pure hell. Also if you buy laptop with preinstalled Linux, it's going to work like a charm. He is unfair to Linux as the way he is looking the whole thing is unfair. Trying to install Linux on custom PC with lots of esoteric hardware, for the purpose of running Windows games on it, with using the Windows paradigms, it's certainly going to be hard as phuck. This challenge would make sense if it continued for a year. You get all the problems and issues based on you not knowing things happens in the beginning, and that period takes many many months. Also gaming is simply the most idiotic thing to do on the challenge because there is simply no possibility for Linux giving any additional benefits for running Windows software. Longer time would at least give some benefits through it being stable and not giving a shit, there being much better updating system etc. This challenge seems like designed to attack Linux just before Valve releases Steam Deck and SteamOS and tries to get people migrate from Windows to Linux. Because based on the things I already stated, among many others, there is no logical motive other than trying to show how much better Windows is. As for the esoteric hardware and gaming, especially at this point when Valve's kernel updates and other stability, compatibility, performance updates are not yet ready. The only thing I'm claiming is that this challenge is stupid. It would have been much better if it were between employees of the LTT who are not so busy, and who might actually enjoy learning new things, and who could continue this challenge for at least couple of months. Perhaps even continuing it for as long as there are people continuing the race, only letting the competition to stop in a year. And different prices for the people who dropped at different places. Linux cannot be made more normal. It could be made more bug free, desktop environments could be made more intuitive, there could be better guides and slightly better support, though I think support for the most used distros are pretty good. The main thing that gets people to switch back, and to not even try, is the fact that you absolutely need to learn new paradigms, lots of new things, basics of terminal if you plan to do anything but the basic usage of office, web, playing media. The sad reality is that modern computers are just too fast for the performance related things to matter, Windows is now also stable and secure enough that those things matter for the most. So essentially Linux lost it's possibilities it had from the late 2000s till Windows 10. Sure lots of people quit Windows 10, but those that didn't got used to it, and were now even less likely to migrate. If Valve builds great gaming OS and manages to get momentum on getting drivers up in shape, kernel updates that improve further compatibility and performance, it really can be huge next year and in 2023. But will non Steam games work good enough, that's something I don't know. But I see the possibility of Linux becoming good enough for gaming that Windows doesn't offer much more than Linux. That would get tons of people to Linux, and gamers are essential in spreading the knowledge, being the IT support people for their friends and family. So that's the next possibility, and if things do not work out right, then it's going to be a long long time before there's another chance.
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@I Sleep Every other Linux channel are so into getting publicity that they are not pointing out the obvious issues with the challenge. It makes no sense for anyone to migrate to Linux for playing Windows games and to stream. That's going to be horrible time. The only reason one would migrate to Linux is something that Linux is better or because of supporting free software ideology. Gaming is great, as that allows you to not use Windows at all, and it allows more migration from those gamers who want to migrate to Linux for other reasons but who also want to play games. Unless the real reasons for migration are not addressed, this challenge really makes no sense and DT is the one with balls to say it out loud. I would have wanted to love this challenge, but it really doesn't make sense. But even bad publicity is better than nothing, so in that sense I'm slightly feeling positive about this series, but the challenge still doesn't make sense.
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@UntrackedEndorphins Do you really think it makes any sense to migrate to Linux if you are a gamer and streamer? Sure if you also free software movement etc but in that case those aspects should be in focus of the challenge. Now it absolutely doesn't make any sense. It's only going to give problems in the first month's time. If you can logically explain why this challenge is a good thing, then please do so and I will change my mind. You only migrate to Linux with other reasons in mind. And those reasons need to be highlighted, or this video series could just declare Linux as bad. As it certainly won't beat Windows on Windows gaming and doing Windowsy tasks. Obviously I think even bad publicity might be beneficial on the long term.
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@seikb-9228 Thats bullshit. Linux community is much nicer than communities on average because most Linux users want more users, as it also benefits them. The challenge was stupid, for one, playing Windows games on Linux makes no sense unless you migrate for other reason and hopefully now you don't need to dual boot. You cannot make any massive ecosystem jump in a month and expect it to be great. Linux is that different and migration requires a lot of work. And it's precisely that work that keeps people from migrating. The long term benefits are there, after couple of months you are over for all the initial problems and have learned the basics. But the longer you use Linux the more benefits you get. For some reason people just accept the claim that Linux community is toxic, which is absolute BS. Obviously you will find these people in a group of tens of millions but in general that's BS but people accept that claim. People who fail at migration use this excuse to show that "it wasn't my issue, it was the community" and for some reason the community eats it. And that has caused pretty massive damage to the whole Linux community and FOSS ecosystem. There are no large companies, no marketing budgets, no celebrities etc. preaching about Linux. So when Linus claims that "someone was toxic" even though they clearly wasn't, they just explained facts as the facts are, this creates pretty massive problems. Don't eat that narrative !! Don't be part of the problem by believing in that, instead protect the community from this sort of false accusations and be the good helpful person to others.
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@technerd9655 CLI is superior and faster. Especially on OS that is all about freedom. The only problem is that you need to learn it in the first place. That's obviously not something most people want to do, but for IT person who thinks GUI > CLI it seems weird. Obviously it depends, perhaps there are some examples where GUI is superior, but almost always the only problem with CLI is the initial learning. My parents have external HDD with NTFS, mostly because they already had Windows before and lots of files there. Also they have dropbox. They obviously do not use CLI, but they never need to. I have helped them to update to new Linux version once, perhaps it would have went fine, but I did it over the Christmas when I was visiting them anyway. Migrating to another OS requires effort. Then the question becomes, is that effort bigger than the benefits. And that is not easy question. Software availability and hardware compatibility are the best things about Windows. But if you have hardware that is 100% compatible, and there's the required software on Linux, then Linux becomes much more plausible solution. But I wouldn't recommend Linux either to anyone if I would be responsible. I have installed it for a lot of people but only as a friend, familymember, of friend of a friend. But I have always promised to help with the problems. Most of these were old laptops that I refurbished with Linux, so quite simple tasks.
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@ValiantFlamez It seemed like the whole challenge is a choir for Linus. Unless he puts in some cash or work himself, it's not really that inspiring. At this moment there are no people who would migrate to Linux just to play games. You at least need to be proponent of the open source ideology to migrate. The problem with this series is that the conclusion is 100% obvious if you only do a 1 month test. You are not really migrating in that time. Especially from Windows to Linux. Perhaps this series does more good than bad, but it's still kind of idiotic the way it's been done. Hoping Linux to be working for Windows noobs is insane, essentially you just want Windows without Microsoft's control in that situation. That might be possible with some massive corporation behind it, but it wouldn't be Linux anymore, it would be like Android or ChromeOS. Certainly Linux can be made better, but it's paradigms of absolute freedom dictate that it cannot be as simple as Windows. Perhaps Valve will build some sort of jailed Linux for the noobies and I would be OK with that as all the Linux users would get the benefits too. I'm hoping that to become a reality.
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@fran13r Sorry I missed one word. You were talking about your parents and I thought they were the ones telling it. I have no interest on misrepresenting you as that wouldn't lead to anything positive. You should have shown to your friends and family the different DEs and asked their favorite. To me Windows 10 is horrible looking and one reason why I ditched Windows for the good when win10 was released. "do you realize that learning windows is knowing that a click selects and a double click executes an action?" So you think teaching this is the reason why IT support exists? I really don't even know how to respond because that is just so insane. Assuming you have the hardware that Linux supports out of the box, and you would use only software found in the repos, Linux isn't harder than Windows. If you buy Linux laptop with software center it's rock solid and simple. The possible problems come differently. For example updates bricking your OS is pretty much impossibility with non rolling release Linux. Comparison would be long and complex so lets leave it at that. I said "Linux is not for the prosumers" because those people like to play with the newest tech, try tons of things, tweak but do it with OS safeguarding them etc. and good example of a person like this is Linus. Linux for normal usage is not hard. If you have preinstalled Linux with good DE, playing with it is not hard. On Debian based distros you can use synaptics as a software center for all the packages if avoiding terminal is the key. It's condescending to say "Linux evangelists will never get it" when for example I have direct experience for installing Linux for a lot of computers after Windows have bricked itself, or support has ended for that version. I know the problems of both, and on what kind of people these problems arise. Perhaps you interpret my words wrong or something. But this serves no purpose anymore. I'm honest in my comments and I have experience since Win 3.1 and Linux from 2001. It used to be something only for developers and sysadmins, but depending on the hardware it's been decent for a long time now. The problem with migrating to another ecosystem obviously keeps the userbase small. Also Windows have become better since XP era so there's less reasons for most to migrate.
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@adg1355 I don't think people are advocating to use CLI for interactive applications. Though editing is one area where CLI applications can be amazing. Learn VIM or Emacs thoroughly and you'll be effective as phuck. Things that can be done more effectively/better in general with GUIs certainly have GUI versions. And GUIs in general are easier to learn. The problem is that coming from Windows to Linux is just a massive ecosystem change and thus learning the required knowledge takes effort. But in most cases that is worthwhile and will serve you well.
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@UntrackedEndorphins If there are people exclusively gaming on Linux, those people are using Linux because of some other reason that it being the best gaming platform, as I clearly stated on my comment. Either they want security, privacy, are free software proponents etc. and that is exactly what the challenge should highlight. I'm waiting for some evidence for it having sense. Valve making Linux better certainly makes Linux better than it's now, but it will not be better than Windows at least for a long long time. And the important point is, that support is not there yet, so this challenge might actually make some sense in a year. I'm never used Redit, though I have used Windows since 1990 and Linux since 2001, so I wouldn't call myself a kid. If you seriously thought I was a kid based on my comment, then maybe you should reconsider your take on this matter.
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@chuck_norris Sure you can.. But in this context they are not wrong. It was kind of stupid to try to migrate to linux to play Windwos games. It makes no sense. And try that sort of massive ecosystem migration in so short amount of time is absolutely going to fail. Steam Deck is based on totally different kernel that has big improvement, and also greatly improved mesa drivers. So the testing doesn't reflect Steam Deck. Gaming on Linux for the most part is for existing Linux users so that they shouldn't have to dual boot. So testing gaming for newly migrated users is certainly going to fail.
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@fran13r I said, try to install and configure windows. It's absolutely different thing to have it already working. Also I doubt that your mom hasn't used Windows ever? I haven't used Mint ever, but install Linux with software center and it's certainly easy to install software through that. Windows' hell compared to Linux's hell is not that different assuming you have never used either of these. The only real massive benefit of Windows is the hardware and software support. So if you have hardware that needs special configuration, Linux is out of the question for noobs, or if you need certain software that Linux doesn't have. The situation however is nealy impossible. As there are almost no one in the west who hasn't used Windows. Linux is better for gaming, now that is more disingenuous for sure.
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@fran13r I was talking about installing Linux. As it was also part of this challenge. If your parents haven't any experience with any computers, then really their opinion on how it looks is kind of ridiculous. Linux isn't for prosumers, it isn't for gamers, but it certainly is good enough for the normies. If those normies have learned windows and have no interest of learning Linux anymore, then that''s totally a different thing and I'm sick and tired of people not seeing this. I can say the exact opposite experience with my parents, and also with lots of other people who I have installed/gave Linux machines. I just give small amount of notes and be their IT support for awhile. I'm not saying Linux is easy enough to win the majority of the market share, but it's good enough for becoming much more popular. It really isn't that hard, though the experience can vary. I have been on the IT support long enough to know the intuitiveness of Windows and how well that works when the shit hits the fan, which is quite usual even still, though it's better nowadays.
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@lapio8222 It's the same type or realistic as it is to realize that we all die and nothing matters. The point is that those people who look Linux from the perspective of Windows and expect it to work like Windows will never migrate to Linux. And we do not need video series to point that out. You either migrate because of the benefits Linux gives, and in that case the whole thing should be focused on that, or from ideological reasons because free as in freedom software is the only software that doesn't actively try to hamper you down. It's totally new ecosystem, and pointing out "flaws" from the perspective of Windows is dishonest and harmful. Even if it's perhaps realistic from the perspective of someone trying Linux with Windows background. Linus' might think he is helping with pointing those things out, but he is missing the key info, why people would migrate in the first place. This video series could have been great, if there would have been some long term Linux users who get to insert their commentary on things from the point of long term Linux user. As that would separate the good complaints from the bad ones. But one thing is certain, if the only motivation is gaming, no one will migrate to Linux. Gaming is great to have, as it allows much more people to migrate to Linux whose main reason to migrate is somethign else, but they were previously held back by not being able to play games. But I think this series is still bringing Linux into discussion, so I think it's still positive thing.
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@Anthropomorphic Easiest on the short term is usually the hardest on the long term. Though if making money through streaming is the goal, then it's a different story and you have to focus on purely the risk reward ratio. Personally I refuse to use Windows, no matter what. The world is already hellish because people gave up their power to these tech giants. And it's only going to get worse until we all are part of the machine controlled by the lunatic 0.1%.
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@Indsofin The only reason why anyone would migrate to Linux is not gaming. Gaming can be a big portion of the thing, but you will not migrate to Linux for playing Windows games unless you appreciate some aspects of Linux way more than Windows. Those aspects must be part of any sort of challenge, or the challenge is dishonest and harmful from the start. No, Linux fans do not miss what Mac or Windows users want. Again, if you want simplicity over other things, stay on Mac or Windows. There is nothing that forces you to migrate to another ecosystem, but if you want to migrate, then it's important to focus on the reasons why you would want to do that. Migration to completely another ecosystem with different paradigms will be hard, and trying to judge things from Win/Mac perspective is dishonest, or it being the only viewpoint is dishonest. That might be the honest way you feel at the moment, but it's still dishonest for anyone who realizes that he is migrating to another ecosystem with different paradigms. Many of the distros are pretty much as simple as they can be, or you would be building uncompatible "Linux" that really has no purpose. Of course there are things to improve, that's on all operating systems, but Linus certainly is not the correct person for telling how Linux should handle things. He is really not interested on Linux, and because he is not active long term user he only sees how things look from his Windows user perspective. The point I'm trying to make is that if some aspects are actually better in the long term, even if those seem bad for the moment, you shouldn't change them. Obviously there are lots of small things to improve that anyone can tell should be changed. Though the best thing would be to check out different DEs and pick the one that suits you the best. People who say "Linux could be simple" almost certainly are not Linux developers or understand the Linux ecosystem well enough. That sort of thing might happen if Valve etc. really thinks they have a business model and reason to create simple Linux distro for the noobs. But at the moment getting Ubuntu, Mint etc. to be simple enough for Windows noobs would require just insane amount of work, and I doubt it would be that popular. It takes effort to learn new paradigms, but it is worth it. Learning command line tools and what you can achieve with them is worth it. You can achieve things with them that is impossible with GUI tools. Good luck for migrating! Linux people might strongly defend their OS, but they are really really helpful people and want real adoption. It's just that most of the people talking about the adoption just do not know enough of what they are talking about.
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@uuu12343 Getting Win XP installed and configured is harder than getting Linux working. Unless you have really new hardware that doesn't have support yet on the Linux side. Point is that people grow up with Windows, if you are one who never has used or seen Windows or Linux, then Linux is easier. Though Windows have more software, so it depends on the use case.
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