Comments by "David Himmelsbach" (@davidhimmelsbach557) on "TIKhistory"
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@caelachyt
Yup.
I'd say everyone would have to agree with you.
Browning took advantage of Urquhart and Gavin.
Both were leading their divisions into a drop for their first time.
With more experience under their belts, both would've thrown those insane drop zones back in Browning's face.
He picked them, not Monty.
Monty merely trusted Browning to get such things right.
Monty knew he didn't know the airborne art.
Both armies accepted that Browning was the Big Brain and the fella that had created both the British and American airborne corps.
For the American airborne was nothing but a clone of Browning's op.
The Americans did change some of the PT and related gear, but that's about it.
I suspect that Gavin spent a LOT of time picking Browning's brain.
Remember that Gavin wrote the American how-to text for the airborne.
The island was rejected solely because it was deemed bad for gliders. This thesis was not even put to the test, BTW. It was merely assumed to be true.
It would've been a SNAP to make any glider tip-over proof for the island. Merely put a runner way out in front of the glider, extending from its nose, in effect a ski-nose.
Such an extension is not going to have a significant influence on drag or in-flight handling. Then, at the end, when the glider is at risk of flipping over, such a leading runner would stop the turning motion. The whole glider was made out of wood, and England was overrun with super-skilled furniture makers -- the boys that made the Mosquito the super-plane that it was. They could've patched this 'fix' together in their sleep -- if only someone would've asked.
More generally, I'm astounded that this fix was not adopted because time, and time again, glider pilots were being injured because their craft had no energy absorber out in front of them. The envisaged ski nose would've been engineered to break and bend UNDER the pilot's position. He, himself, should've had the equivalent of a Mae West across his chest so that even if he was pushed forward, his body was cushioned. This 'pillow' could've been slipped on just prior to the landing sequence. Simple, no ?
It's also rather baffling that Panzerfausts weren't made part of the TO&E of the airborne now that so many had been picked up all across France. ( Dropped only once, never fired. ) The British PIAT was revealed as a dud long before MarketGarden.
BTW, Panzerfausts and Bazookas were known to be super effective in urban combat, effective against much more than tanks.
Why the Airborne landed in Arnhem without a bicycle battalion?
What a mistake that was. A fire-team on bicycles would've been perfect for scouting out ahead of the battalions. Instead, 1st Airborne kept stumbling into SS men as a main body. They didn't pick up a Dutch telephone ONCE when it counted. Indeed, they were instructed to NOT use the Dutch phone network.
Good grief. Can't any Brit speak Hindustani ?
It, Hindustani, worked like a charm in North Africa... 8th Army, anyone?
Who in the 21st Army Group hailed from 8th Army?
Wouldn't that be just about anyone in high command?
Horrocks
O'Connor
Monty
My how they forget.
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@steve w
One SS Major, having fought everywhere against everybody, up from the ranks the whole way to major, stated that fighting Americans was by far the WORST he'd ever known.
Nothing compared.
1) Pure physical strength. Americans were bigger, better fed, just flat out stronger across the board.
2) Technical acumen. Americans could not only operate and fix their own stuff, they were astoundingly adept at fixing and using enemy (German) equipment against its former master.
3) The American army simply didn't have any formations that rated less than First Line divisions. It also had Elite formations. It did not have Static troops, Second Line divisions, stomach and ear battalions, ... etc.
4) Uniquely, the American army was the only combatant power that kept its combat formations at 90-105% of TO&E strength all the time. In the event a unit took heavy casualties, it was pulled out of the line and promptly re-blooded, and at a very fast tempo.
This was not the smartest move by a long shot, but it was a fetish that George Marshall had. He regarded troops as so many machine parts.
The greatest division of WWII -- any army -- was the 29th Division on D-Day.
Why?
General Bradley totally rebuilt it in the previous two-months. He took only the CREAM of the US Army in Britain and stuffed it into this one formation. The typical company within this division only retained ONE trooper through this reformation process. (Junior officers, too.)
Everyone else was washed out due to athletic reasons:
a) Wore glasses -- gone
b) 'Slow' in training camp -- gone
Only the top 1% passed Bradley's muster. (!!!)
c) Couldn't read or write -- gone
d) Couldn't read a map -- gone
e) Couldn't field strip an M-1 blind-folded -- gone
f) Overweight -- gone
g) Underweight -- gone
h) Too short -- gone
i) Couldn't shoot well -- gone
This above wash-out and rebuild is virtually buried in military history. It's only alluded to in Bradley's autobiography.
It's historically significant in that this ultra-elite formation was shredded on D-Day -- with immense consequences thereafter.
The loss of so many elite troops on D-Day meant that the formations that they'd been robbed from were seriously weakened. These were the guys that would've been natural promotables in the field. In effect, this was a division of sergeants.
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@Shandwen
Patton was relegated by the Grand Plan to the TRADITIONAL invasion route into Germany. The further south you go, the smaller the Rhine gets. By the time you're in Holland, the Rhine is an absolute monster. It's as big as the Volga, Mississippi, Columbia, etc. MOST of that water landed north of the southern Rhine.
In the actual event, 3rd Army found that it was a cakewalk to set pontoon bridges across the Rhine.
Patton didn't use ANY of the exotic preparation that Monty required -- and he was across BEFORE Monty was.
The Germans were so concerned about 1st Army ( Remagen ) and 21st Army Group ( Monty ) that the door was wide open.
Shortly thereafter 3rd Army made a MASSIVE penetration that was so DEEP that Bradley told Patton to knock it off, to stop, damn it!!!
You'll never find any battle maps showing this -- no matter how far you look. You'll have to craft one yourself from 3rd Army records.
What happened is that 3rd Army was forced to stay in place, killing time, while 1st Army caught up. Only then Bradley permitted position maps to be published for general release.
The big hang-up with 1st Army was that Hitler had thrown EVERYTHING in front of it at Remagen. So it took 9th Armored and friends a lot of fighting to eliminate this blocking force.
Once this was done, one arm swung north to meet 21st Army Group and the Ruhr was pocketed. The rest of 1st Army ( it was a monster ) then pushed forward at the same time -- ultimately to the Elbe.
It was at this time that 15th Army was established. It was a huge army. You'll have to look long and hard to find 15th Army in any history map. Why? It was an administrative and occupation army. It took over the vast bulk of 1st Army -- so that the fighting troops could spend the final weeks of the war taking it easy.
1st Army was, day by day, re-blooded with brand new infantry divisions. There were some exceptions: the 2nd Armored was loaded with Pershing tanks, so it was sent forward so that the Soviets would be impressed. ( It's sole reason for staying in the front line. ) It didn't take part in any substantial fighting. Bradley absolutely did not want it crossing the Elbe.
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@Neil
Point-blanc defense or a deliberate trap?
It's plain on the record that no nation deliberately used howitzers as PAK fronts -- with the possible exception of the Soviets.
Rommel, and other German commanders, routinely used FLAK 88s as PAK fronts, as doctrine. It was nothing exceptional for them.
Whereas, for the British it would appear that direct fire missions for the 25pdr were strictly desperation fire. If the gunners could shoot directly, then the enemy panzers could shoot directly, too.
The universal problem for all artillery is that it can dish it out, but can't take it.
The universal doctrine is to keep one's artillery at a safe remove or cleverly hidden at all times.
One starts popping off direct fire missions only when caught by surprise and conditions are dire.
Neil, you're trying way too hard and not really advancing the ball.
To what purpose?
It's a FACT that the 25pdr was not seen as a decent PAK. Its entire layout is in dramatic contrast with the German FLAK 88 -- which can slew rapidly in all directions.
If the WDF had any confidence in what you're pitching here, they would've adopted such PAK fronts as doctrine, too. But, they didn't.
BTW, ENDLESS film footage of 25pdrs bouncing up recoil ramps makes your assertions rather humorous. The was a real reason that the British army stayed with that system... starting with the fact that you couldn't really dig-in in the desert.
The German 88 had a steady base that didn't require its crew to dig it in to speak of at all. Indeed, it was common for 88 crews to fire it while it was limbered. ( ie while still towed or ready to tow -- up on its wheels.
Go to Google Images to see endless photos of same, with many showing the German crews actually firing the weapon while limbered.
The 25pdr had absolutely no recoil system comparable to the Swedish--German weapon. Without the recoil ramps, the 25pdr had to be seriously dug in. Fat chance of doing that on the quick and dirty in the Western Desert.
Your supposition must be rated, then, as a fail.
The 25pdr was rejected by the British Army as a PAK. Fact.
The PAK of choice was the 6pdr, of which the British built many.
It was an extremely popular size for a time.
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@Neil
But it DOES.
In WWII just about every dang thing could happen ONCE.
But such expedients did not amount to doctrine.
You, yourself, are going to great lengths to find extreme circumstances that show this or that occasion that goes against doctrine.
That's known as 'try-hard.'
The 25pdr was a howitzer, and intended to be used as such.
Absolutely no-one is ever going to corn fuse it with a PAK.
It didn't have ANY of the features deemed essential to a PAK.
Well, other than it had a big gun.
Howitzers are intended to be fired as batteries -- and to lay down patterns of indirect fire. They are ONLY supposed to fire in direct fire when circumstances are dire... things have truly gone sideways.
It's a testimony to the uselessness of the 2pdr that we even hear of 25pdrs being used as an expedient in front of Tobruk -- an occasion so rare that it's never come to my attention before.
Do tell us if said howitzers actually knocked out any panzers. I would expect them to be ineffectual, more as a psychological buttress for the troops.
Much more likely, they fired HE straight at German infantry and in so doing caused any assault to flag. Howitzers make for crappy PAK.
If this were not so, we'd be reading endless accounts of howitzers stopping panzers straight through '41-'42. Instead, panzers ate howitzers as appetizers. All that they had to do was to come at them from an off angle. In real life, gun crews just dropped everything and ran for their lives.
BTW, Tobruk deserves a TIK video all by itself.
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@Neil
You're not going to be able to jump back 75 years in time and make the British Army fall in love with the 25pdr as a PAK.
Other than (weird) expedients, (actually doubtful) you've only established that the British Army HATED to use 25pdrs in such a manner.
Saying that this or that unit used 25pdrs as PAK ... what's telling is that the BA categorically refused to adopt such a use for said gun.
It SUCKED. That's why. You can't slew it, properly, as a PAK.
In contrast, the BA loved the 25pdr in its howitzer role.
That puppy was everywhere the BA was.
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In a studied contrast, the Soviets loved their 76.2mm howizer --they produced scads of them.
The Germans and the Americans adopted the SAME howitzer: the German 105mm gun.
Yes. Patton's army even captured an entire German battery of 105mm howitzers -- and then turned them upon the Germans. Yes, they were listed in 3rd Army's TO&E in late 1944. (!) The German-American howitzer was SO identical that Patton could shoot American ammo straight through his captured German guns. Patton thought this was a laugh riot.
[ This latter trait had Family significance. My Uncle was given up to the Gestapo by a French traitor precisely BECAUSE she heard American 105mm howitzers and -- having heard the German version -- was convinced that the German army was winning in Normandy. It didn't matter how much my Uncle and his patron wailed, this traitorous bitch was convinced that the Germans were winning.
His patron was hanged -- after extreme torture -- by the Gestapo in Paris. The French traitor was nabbed by the French underground when the Gestapo fled Paris. ( France, like Germany and Italy, has astounding local accents. Her Normandy accent told every Frenchman that she was a Nazi collaborator of the most extreme sort when she rolled through eastern France. They grabbed her azz during a 'relief break.' She was shorn of hair and hanged as a traitor, ultimately upon the personal testimony of my Uncle.
( Her crimes were so astounding that she was not called to account until the war was over. )
He was rescued out of the SS so-called 'hospital' at Buchenwald. He was so weak that all he could do was whisper his name, rank, and serial number. The attending USA physician, a Jewish doctor, just about flipped out. He didn't expect to hear English at all... let alone run across a USAAF sergeant.
He weighed about 75 pounds. It took English doctors half-a-year to get him up to enough body weight to fly him back to the USA. Yeah, he was on IV most of that time.
During his stay in London he had to give two interviews WRT the French traitor. She'd managed to kill every other witness. His testimony hanged her. As he was the only surviving witness to her treason. The Gestapo had murdered (by torture) everyone else. I can't remember her name, but she's virtually at the top of the list of most hated Nazi collaborators.
Her Gestapo reward was the entire estate of my Uncle's patron. After it was all said and done, the reverse occurred. The traitor's land rights to her descendants were expunged -- totally. The patriot's family -- was endowed with everything -- tax free -- but of course.
This reward was for her silence as a member of the underground as much as anything. The Gestapo beat the crap out of her. Even so, she didn't give up anyone. Right there, she was remarkable. ]
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@vlad... "As a result, tactical and organizational measures in the West came down to plugging holes. Commanders, troops and military equipment, frankly, became second-rate.
Since 1943, the basis of the German troops of the Western Front was the elderly, equipped with obsolete weapons. Neither the personnel nor the weapons met the requirements of the coming heavy battles."
More proof that you can't believe anything a Nazi says or writes.
1) Adolf SHUT OFF all tank reinforcements to the Eastern Front 12-31-1943. Stug IIIs would have to do.
2) The SS panzer divisions in the West were brought totally up to strength.
3) The 116th panzer division ( 2 panther battalions + 1 Mark IV battalion ) was created from scratch. ( by Guderian as a birthday present... heh... it was filled with anti-Nazi Germans, BTW. )
4) Panzer Lehr was built out as a super division, too.
5) 2nd Parachute was sent to France -- at full strength.
6) In mid-44, 9th & 10th SS panzer divisions were sent to Normandy -- from Poland. (!) They were supposed to reinforce the East. Oh, well.
Taken altogether, Adolf created a new panzer army, the 5th, in the West. He even sent west machines explicitly designed to stop Soviet tanks -- namely the Jagpanther. Not one of these terrors ever went east. (!)
Lastly, the Germans sent a LOT more divisions into Italy than just 8. Those were merely the first wave.
In this telling, the Nazis are trying to convince the Americans and British that they were not facing the REAL German Army.
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@Vlad... Stalin had an entire CORPS of NKVD troops dedicated to this task. It pissed the British and Americans off Big Time. Yeah, it reached diplomatic levels. The children of the USA sent CARE packages to to the USSR. They'd gone door-to-door to pick up pennies for this drive. Even THEIR charity goods were held up and re-labelled. This infuriated our diplomats.
That you are in denial about this Stalinist policy shows you how effective it was.
Alien machines were easily explained away as new Soviet machines. After all, all of their internal dials and legends were in Cyrillic. Many Soviet tanks were designed by Christie -- the American. So when Western technologies popped up -- they were not new.
BTW, the engine for the T-34 started life as a French dirigible motor. The 82mm mortar started life as the French 81mm mortar -- a design that every army of note adopted: French, German, American, Soviet -- and more. The Reds also knocked off the Browning 50 cal, too. (14.5mm gun) { Like the 82mm mortar, the Reds copied the device but increased the size a bit.}
All of the above is why it was child's play to convince the general population that Lend Lease goods were miracles of production from east of the Urals.
You'd have to be at the very top to know what was going on.
As for historians: they are total zeroes when it comes to chemistry or mechanics -- or mass production. That's why the switch from High Speed Steel to Tungsten Carbide triggers no mental activity -- it goes in one eye-ball and comes out their ears. TC is the TRUE source of the Soviet war production miracle.
It's impossible to build any major war plant in the depth of a Siberian winter. You can't pour concrete -- there is snow everywhere -- you can't dig frozen ground -- etc. It took the US two-years to get B-24 production really going -- and we had everything going our way.
The removed Soviet factories were largely destroyed in the process. How do we know? Russians who were there, who unloaded the flat cars, have told us so. The panic was so great that he merely shoved electric motors off the train into the snow and mud. The train didn't even stop! It just crawled along as it was 'unloaded.' No-one knew where anything was when the snow melted.
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@Vlad... The 116th Panzer Division was presented to Adolf Hitler on his birthday, April 20, 1944. He didn't even know it existed before. Guderian raised it up behind his back... out of the new production of Panther tanks -- of which he was in charge of as Inspector General of Panzer Troops. ( In reality, he was in charge of de-bugging the Panther and accelerating all tank production. In that role, he thwarted the production of Jagpanthers... in favor of Panthers. At one time, it was proposed that 2 Jagpanthers would be built for every single Panther. Guderian stopped that production priority. Turret rings and turrets cost a fortune. Turret-less machines cost about 35% less. They don't need a vertical turret lathe.
But Jagpanthers were what the Nazi armies needed. They could open up a JS-2 tank like a can of spam. Thank God we had Guderian on our side. (sarc)
My own Father faced one of these beasts. They were terrifying. They had the massive 88mm gun -- in the longest form -- first used at Kursk. Hitler redirected them towards his Ardennes offensive -- December 16, 1944 and other operations in the West. As tank killers, they were the ultimate machine in WWII.
Your Googling is the first instance I've read that ANY Jagpanthers made it east -- even though they were expressly designed to stop Soviet tanks. No wonder you hardly know of them.
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Vald, by Adolf's order -- the eastern armies were to no longer be a priority -- December 31, 1943. All that had gone before was stopped.
Other than a handful of super-elite divisions ( GD, 3SS, 5SS -- and at the end HG ) the East Heer lost all of its punch.
The 1SS, 2SS, 9SS, 10SS, 12SS, -- and others -- were sent west.
The HG, 1st para, 2nd para, 4th para went west.
The 116th and Panzer Lehr went west.
The Luftwaffe went to Central Germany -- to fight the USAAF -- not to fight the RAF or Red Air Force. ( Hitler would not prioritize the RAF.)
The German Navy was ALWAYS in the west.
Both the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine cost Nazi Germany a fortune... MUCH more than the war in the East. (!!!!) After the blood-letting in the East, it's impossible for Russians to accept that their's was the minor theater of the war... drawing off never more than 40% of all German war production.
Planes and boats cost a fortune. They use ONLY elite manpower. They consume the best materials... the most expensive and rare. They use crude oil in vast amounts -- whereas armies can live off of horses and coal.
BTW, the real secret to Barbarossa -- the Germans ran their draft horses into the ground -- during the mud season. They never recovered. This did not happen to the Soviet Army.
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Gavin messed up so BAD that he was given his second star immediately after MG was over.
Gavin's REAL orders were to protect Browning -- an army commander -- and to protect Browning's reputation, too.
He followed these orders -- American orders above and outside MG.
You can't trust ANY of the generals, as they are all world class liars.
That's how they became generals in the first place.
This is still seen. When British or American generals speak to the public -- everything is spin.
In the case of MG, the subordinate commanders are falling on their swords to protect their superiors -- right up the line.
Monty is protecting Churchill, Allen Brooke, and the Joint Chiefs...
Boy those guys never make a mistake, and so forth.
If Gavin had lost Browning to the Germans -- his career would've been over. Period.
Browning OWNS the failure of MG by even landing with his army.
He needed to stay above the fray -- the only way he could allocate reinforcements and make THE key decisions. As it was, all of the key decisions were being made by his subordinates. For example, it should NEVER have been up to Urquhart to decide where the Poles drop. That should've been Browning's call. It does not appear that anyone even contacted him. Browning appears to be out of the loop even after XXX Corps hooks up with the 82nd.
The delay in providing TAC Air is bizarre. Browning was the man that should've accelerated its arrival.
The futzing around by XXX Corps after they crossed the Nijmegen bridge is baffling.
And, STILL, where are the jeeps? Why scout with Shermans when jeeps can shoot all over the island? It's not as if the Germans can enter the island except by bridge and ferry.
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The REAL impact was HUGE because Stalin was liquidating officers based upon DOCTRINE.
Anyone that he deemed in Tukhachevksy's camp was shot. The doctrine that Stalin hated was Deep Operations, which, of course, was exactly how victory was to be had.
Zhukov survived because he was such a total prick. Stalin knew, without any doubt, that Zhukov's peers wanted to shoot him. He often shot them. ( Compel them to lead the next attack, personally, from the very front, with a machine gun at his back. )
Like Hitler, Stalin loved to put two tomcats in a bag -- and then shake.
Zhukov brought back Deep Operations -- and had to anoint a slew of new generals -- making him the George Marshall of the Red Army. Eventually, as the war progressed, Stalin was forced by events to fire virtually all of his pre-war favorites. They were duds.
Guderian was placed under 4th Army (Nominally, that's what the organization chart showed. It's commander hated Heinz, but of course. )
Rommel famously disdained Italians, hence he was sent to North Africa -- and so forth.
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