Comments by "David Himmelsbach" (@davidhimmelsbach557) on "Who's to blame for the Battle of Anzio 1944? | Patreon Q&A 8" video.

Lucas and Clark BOTH deserve scorn. Clark ought to have jumped all over Lucas within the first day. Clark should never have even made it to Korea. Amazing. BTW, Bradley send down no end of American generals after only one screw-up. They were not kept in Europe but sent back to the USA. Alexander had a killer rep with the US Army. At his level of command, he can't ride heavy on Clark. This is the same dynamic between Ike and Monty. BTW, Churchill delayed D-Day by taking// holding onto the LSTs. Their lack was used by Bradley to convince Monty to delay D-Day by five weeks. Both agreed that they ought to wait for more LSTs. Sadly, both Monty and Bradley were wrong. The blame lies mostly with Bradley. BTW, both the USN and RN hated operating off of Anzio. It was just too close to Nazi air power. The Krauts had already sunk two Italian heavies with their first generation smart bombs. Indeed, that's why Anzio was selected as the limit. Further both navies were gearing up for D-Day. They wanted their crews at 100% - and at first they expected to be off Normandy May 1, 1944. That was not a lot of time. As it proved out, the navies just got stuck in the Med. This was NOT where they wanted to be. Once it was obvious what the trend was, Dragoon was pencilled in. Now Churchill didn't want a landing! He expected another Anzio! Oh, my!
7
VI Corps was actually a VERY powerful formation. The British and American divisions were about twice as powerful as all regular German formations. Plus they had the RN and USN battle fleet. As Torch proved, it's IMPOSSIBLE to drive the Allies into the sea. Then you have Allied air dominance. By this stage of the war virtually ALL German tac air has been pulled back to defend the homeland. The Krauts were thrilled to even get up spotters. The fuel crisis meant that all elite German formations were crippled. They just could not use the day -- and the roads were a total mess. If Lucas had gone mobile, and stayed mobile, Kessy wouldn't have been able to deal with him. The Germans NEEDED a static battle. That Lucas sent two Ranger battalions into the front -- a week late -- tells everyone what a boob he and Clark were. Darby never recovered. Obviously the Rangers should've been cut loose within the first hour of the landing.
6
@ben The USAAF had two air forces, 12th and 15th that faced off. They ran into opposition only when north of Rome. For obvious cultural and military reasons, the Allies never bombed Rome. ( No industry, just a lot of Catholics. ) There is footage of USAAF P-47s having a field day over Italy, north of Rome from January onward on YouTube. They were the real reason that 5th Army finally broke out. The Krauts just couldn't get trains or trucks down to the battle. It's also the reason why Clark should've been canned. The retreating Germans were in absolutely dire straights -- very much in the same spot as later seen in Falaise, France. By this time, June, there were virtually no bridges leading north to the Poe river valley. The P-47s had systematically taken them all out. By goofing around in Rome -- yeah it turned into a big party -- a pre-peat of what happened in Paris -- Clark let the Krauts march their way out of the pocket... on foot. Once out of immediate danger, they found that the blown bridges stopped the Allies from racing ahead and pocketing them. There were no end of choke points to save them.
3
@ben... BTW there is film footage of the British 8th Army's tortured advance up the boot, for they had to set Bailey bridges virtually every step of the way. The soft underbelly turned out to have simply no end of rapid, but short, rivers to cross. What the Allies failed to bomb, the Germans blew up. There wasn't a single decent bridge standing as the Allies advanced. The engineering effort was astounding. THIS was why the Germans looked so good -- on paper -- during their retreat. Further, the destruction was so vast that the Allies had to use their supplies to stop civilian starvation. This was something that no Allied commander anticipated. The tonnage involved was vast. Sophia Loren, the actress, suffered starvation until the Allies rolled in. She was hardly alone. So, at a fundamental level, while necessary, the Italian campaign was a first class bitch from start to finish. It DID pull a panzer army and an infantry army out of Russia. But the Reds NEVER bring that up.
2
@ben... The YouTube videos were Official British and USAAF releases, BTW. Just because they are now available for anyone to see at any time... you challenge these governments? I'm not going to mention subordinate commands when the controlling command is so extremely well known. As an 'expert' you should already know that the 15th was monumentally tasked with Ploesti. HUNDREDS of raids were launched against that one target. No other Axis target ever got the Ploesti treatment. Yes, the 15th USAAF would occasionally send bombers against southern Germany, Austria and Hungary, but that's not its claim to fame.
2
@Peorhum... Churchill is the reason Monty landed at the toe of Italy. He was scarred by Gallip and didn't want to lose office. Losing 8th Army would get him canned. It was the only British army fighting the Big Fight.
1
@ben... both groups were under the 15th USAAF while in Italy. Wiki. The 15th was a monster air force largely based around Foggia. The 12th IIRC had elements in Sardinia. Both air forces had fighters, heavies and medium bombers. The bombs dropped on the Vatican: Protestant crew. The USAAF had general orders prohibiting bombing of religious sites. But, screw-ups are part of war. Rail yards were a special exception.
1
@ben... Clark left the door open. It made all the difference in the world. That's why historians howl about it, especially British ones.
1
@ben... the famous 'open door' issue occurred when Clark turned to Rome after everything was in motion -- June 4-5. Alexander instructed Clark to get 5th Army to block 10th Army's retreat. Clark should've been sent down for his stunt. It's been a sore point for the British (8th Army) ever since. Once the Germans had even a few days of grace, they totally escaped the trap. Then, the blown bridges stopped the Allies from a rapid pursuit. This was totally unlike France, where Patton could sweep ahead without hardly worrying about bridges. The most critical bridges were in Paris and they were NOT blown. See the film "Is Paris Burning." For video of the 12th Air Force's systemic attack on Italy's rail system -- and roads, too visit YouTube and google for P-47s. It should come right up. These fighters had been operating since late December 1943. Specifically, the video explains that the P47s just about never see any German fighters. They had crushed them virtually from the start. Their entire campaign was north of Rome. This is shown on a map. The 12th, BTW, was operating from an ex-German series of air strips. These were massively expanded in no time by the USAAF. Sardinia was invaded precisely to obtain these bases. From them they could even participate in Dragoon. These planes were also a part of Anzio as they WERE expected to drive off the Luftwaffe... which is exactly what happened. So Lucas had air cover, naval support, and rivers to his north and south (Tiber, Pontine marshes -- they had been re-flooded by the Nazis.) Both flanks were impassible for German heavy panzers. Lucas needed to rush forward and THEN dig in. If he was forward then the USAAF could've built instant air strips in the beachhead -- same as was done in Normandy. ( My Father built the first one there -- right on the bluff over Omaha.) Getting the USAAF to be based right over his back was THE solution for Lucas. However, Lucas never had enough depth for any air strips to be laid. What a fool.
1
@ben... You are just not that well read. You failed to realize that the 15th Air Force WAS the master command for the USAAF in Italy. Because of Ploesti, an astounding number of its missions were directed there. Only a trivial number of missions were sent to Germany. You sound very young. And angry. Lucas was a boob. He got fired. Both he and Clark screwed up royally, which is what virtually all historians agree on. As for Anzio, you have demonstrated complete ignorance of the tactical situation when Lucas landed. 1) His flanks were automatically secure. 2) He failed to exploit the USAAF. 3) It was so bad that the film "Anzio" was crafted to lay most of his idiocy out to the public. You can still see this for free on YouTube. It was a class A Hollywood production at the time. Lucas was told IMMEDIATELY that Kessy had nothing in Rome. The Romans even spelled it out. 4) The place to dig in was right behind the critical river lines to the north and south. The Krauts crossed these bridges to attack him. Many of the Italian bridges could not carry Panther tanks. So modern maps are totally misleading. They make greater Rome look like it has a killer road net. The Pontine marshes are no longer marshes. 5) Lastly, the SS released infected mosquitos into the marsh at that time. This was not known until decades passed. You haven't gotten much right at all. Look at my posts, then your rages. Venom is not an argument. It must be tough to be an uninformed kid.
1
@Alan... Clarke proved to all concerned that he couldn't punch through the Germans. This is why he was 'starved' of resources. If you look at the blood lost, Clark was grinding through multiple 'corps' in a static position. The Krauts made fun of Anzio as a self-supporting prisoner of war camp. (!) The Krauts were finally undone by the 12th Air Force (Sardinia) which totally ruined front-line logistics. Further, with the cross-channel invasion in prospect, the Germans step-wise pulled all elite formations away from the front. They were not so much defeated by 5th Army as they simply withdrew from Italy south of Rome. Lost in the histories: the actual unit to punch through the main front was a bunch of French colonial troops of a dark complexion. They winkled their way -- the 'wrong way' and surprised the Krauts. This caused the entire position to be turned -- from the center. And this occurred when the Krauts were totally stretched everywhere. In doing so, they pre-peated the dynamic of the Devil's Brigade -- well recorded by Hollywood. Again, getting around the 'wrong way' popped the entire position -- and then the entire front. As for the Germans defending in January: they were a scratch line at first. But as the days went by, entire divisions came into the line. Many had fought together in Russia. So they knew their business.
1
@MGTOW Beachheads are held by the big guns of the navy... See Torch. NO-ONE has ever driven a British or American amphib into the sea... not even close. What was Lucas thinking? He needed to avoid a static battle -- the ONLY one that the Krauts could be effective with. As Patton was to show in August, once the line is broken the Germans simply were not mobile enough to restore it. They were getting by on their reputation.
1
@MGTOW... Dieppe is in another category. It's also the attack that the British signalled the Germans was coming. This signalling was to enhance the reputation of turned German agents. It blew up when the raid was delayed so long the Germans were ready and waiting. Whoops. Allied accounts make Torch and Salerno look ultra close. German accounts constantly mention that they're getting their asses kicked. The heavy cruisers were just too much. It is true that the 82nd had to be dropped on an emergency basis -- but such is the nature of war. The Germans were ALWAYS responding on an emergency basis, Anzio being a classic in this regard. The kicker with Anzio is that there are but a few roads that fed the zone. To the south the ground was impassible. To the north was the river. So Lucas only had to worry about his front -- and some delightful hills lay directly ahead -- and astride the main highway to Casino. ( Apian Way ) Grabbing that turf makes you practically impossible to get around. The Germans didn't have any decent route otherwise. Off to the east the terrain quickly gets rotten, not panzer country at all. Lucas needed to grab these bridgeheads and then set up anti-tank traps without end. This position would even beat the Alban hills. THIS is where VI Corps should've dug in, and obviously so.
1
All fingers point to CLARKE. He was calling the shots.
1