Youtube comments of Dogen (@Dogen).
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Pinned this because it's accurate. The stressed bit of an English word does indeed have a higher pitch than the unstressed elements. The primary purpose of this video is to explain that the general 'feel' of accenting a word in English and accenting a word in Japanese is quite different, for several reasons, such as at the fact that the surrounding vowels in English are usually reduced to 'schwa' as you mentioned, the fact that in English the accented bit often, but no always, has more force as well as length than the surrounding bits, and the fact that there are several Japanese accent patterns (odaka and heiban) which are very different than anything in English, which you also mentioned. This is why, in my opinion, it's best for Japanese learners to think about only changing pitch in Japanese words, and to say all of the vowels clearly (outside of devoicing). When English native speakers try to accent Japanese words the same way as English words, they often change the pitch of the accented element, but then also add too much force and length to said element, which sounds unnatural (and of course many Japanese words (heiban words) do not have accents, as you said!). Seems we are on the same page—I could have done a better job addressing this in the video. Thanks for the comment Cactustactics!
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Apologies for the small strike zone on this one, folks.
Johnny's is a massive talent agency in Japan that is in charge of groups such as Arashi, KAT-TUN, SMAP, Kanjani 8, etc.
Members of Johnny's groups often participate in an excessive number of activities and professions; they are singers, dancers, models, actors, news anchors, talk show hosts, athletes, cooks, and cultural representatives—all at the same time. This vertical integration often makes them competent at many things, yet highly proficient at none; there are no world-class dancers in Johnny's, but there are dozens of decent pop-and-lockers that also play supporting roles the seasonal NHK drama—hence the punchline. Sumimasen for being cryptic.
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No problem! There are different schools of thought on this issue, but I am of the belief that there IS stress in Japanese. From P.M. Suski's 'Phonetics of Japanese Language':
"...in the same manner, in other European languages, as well as in Japanese language, the stress on words is laid to bring out the meaning above others. It seems that the use of stress on important words in speech is universal in any language, and that Japanese is no exception to the rule..."
"...When one pronounces a syllable more forcibly than others, the pitch of voice is raised slightly. This of natural consequence, as when more force is used in utterance more air tends to escape, the vocal cords are involuntarily narrowed in their unconscious efforts to prevent too rapid escape of air. The result is the raising of pitch, accompanied by more force and loudness."
I believe that in theory and at the single word level (vs. phrase / sentence level), words by themselves only have 'high or low pitch', but when a speaker's intonation (changes in volume based on emotion, emphasis, etc.) is factored into the equation, words exhibit not only both differences in pitch, but volume (stress, according to certain definitions), as well. This is why if you hear a computer speak Japanese there is no stress, but if you hear a human speak Japanese, there is.
My personal 2 cents! Again, there is a lot of conflicting information on this topic, but this is what I believe. Cheers!
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Hi Quizout! To be frank I think that while it is good for expanding vocabulary as well, if your main focus is learning new words, and you're not concerned about sounding native (or as native sounding as you can become), then you may be better off with many of the free ANKI apps and decks out there, as many of them are larger than what we currently offer (though we're planning on expanding the word lists), and of course, you'd be able to save some money. As you pointed out, our app's primary focus is on improving one's spoken Japanese, whether that's through perception training, or direct comparison to native speech, though it's also possible to use Emurse to learn many new words along the way! Hope that this helps you make an informed decision!
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Hi! I haven't used kotu extensively, but I'd say the main differences are in UI, the ability to test the same word lists across a variety of different parameters, word list amount and length, and the linear course material which can also integrate with the Japanese Phonetics video series; many people going through my course were asking for an active way to test what they are learning; we tried to create the optimal application for that, and for learning pitch accent (and rhythm, etc.) in general. That said, from my limited time using kotu, and other pitch accent apps (I believe NHK has one as well, though I'm not sure it's still around), it seemed to be a great application. PRAAT is another alternative I've used in the past, with even more detailed feedback, but it's significantly more demanding on the user, in my humble opinion. Cheers!
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I went ahead and checked out the example in Atelier—very interesting to be sure. I've never really thought about this in the detail that you're describing, but I found myself nodding as I read through your comments. I also know that certain dialects, such as kyushu-ben, have different sounding あ's than standard Japanese, though there is a fair amount of intraspeaker variation when it comes to this (as you mentioned). To be specific, kyushu-ben speakers, particularly older men such as my father-in-law seem to produce their あ with a lower, throatier sound than the standard, clear あ.
That said, I think this is a tricky topic to discuss with Japanese learners. In other words, I believe that while pitch-accent deserves much more recognition in the classroom, I think that for most intensive purposes the Genki explanation of あ is usually enough for Japanese learners to get a basic understanding of the vowel. Furthermore, I tend to believe that the variations you mentioned often come naturally; in my experience most people come to do this without ever being taught. Just my two cents though! Any thoughts?
Thanks again for the share!
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