Comments by "TombWraith" (@Tomb-Wraith) on "Vegans Vs. Meat Eaters: What Is The Right Diet? | Middle Ground" video.

  1. Anyone who claims they would save a human stranger over their pet is a liar. You form bonds with animals just like you do with people, so in some instances, most WOULD save an animal over a human.
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  2. No, plants are living things. But they are not sentient. I think you should try to be vegan if you can, but if you can't, then you should eat what makes you healthy and comfortable.
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  3. So...why is cannibalism or say...killing and eating a dog crimes?
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  4.  @imafatboy27  I know. But if you're using the argument that veganism is wrong just based on "animals eat animals" then you should have no problem eating a person or companion animal. TLDR; That's a bad argument.
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  5. There are plenty of vegan tattoo places.
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  6.  @donyamalak  The same species DO eat each other. In fact, many species are known to even eat their own young. But, they aren't wrong.
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  7. We are also the species causing that extinction.
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  8. Unless you've tried it, how do you know what a dog tastes like? They're delicacies in some cultures. Regardless of where you stand, its hypocrisy to put animals on a pedestal.
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  9. Its an argument of sentience.
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  10. That argument technically wouldn't fly, because those animals were not killed, nor harmed, to make gasoline.
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  11. But ice cream also isn't vegan lol.
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  12. Bears, Hyenas, Crocodiles, Komodo Dragons...they are all natural predators. Ones that do not run from humans who encroach their territory. We are not the top of the food chain. We're in the middle.
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  13. You can eat both. You don't need to. That's an ethical vegan standpoint.
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  14. Most ethical vegans I know are also against pet ownership, with the exception of those already in need of help. But they're against continued domestication, because they were not "made to be pets". We kinda forced that.
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  15. Uhh no. Fact: Humans are animals.
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  16. You can't be both vegetarian and vegan. You're one or the other.
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  17.  @JimmyRonan1992  No, you can't. If you're vegetarian you wear clothes and use animal products. I suppose I should rephrase. All vegans are vegetarians, but not all vegetarians are vegan. If you use or consume animal products, you are not vegan.
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  18. But your argument would fall apart if all of those things happened to be vegan. Which exist.
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  19. Humans are animals. Regardless of what side you're on.
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  20.  @DanielGarcia-oe6rn  they don't feel anything. They react to their outside environment based on chemical reactions. I thought the vegan was absolutely ridiculous.
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  21. No. Extremists can. But most vegans aren't like her.
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  22. No, I doubt it. Extremist vegans would be extremely arrogant about making sure they didn't. Not to mention faux leather looks nearly identical.
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  23.  @anarchy7741  Unfortunately, thats not an option for all people. I have Crohn's disease. Most plant life wreaks havoc on my digestive system. I was vegan for 6 years, but it got to the point where I had to eat meat to have a healthy system. We should encourage less meat consumption. Not force someone to stick to a diet.
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  24. We're designed to eat human flesh, but we don't. Why is that wrong? Simply becauae society says it is because a human is a sentient being. Same with animals. This is, from what I can gather, the argument for ethical vegans.
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  25.  @bullsquid42  Ignore this moron. Janie keeps trying to use a literal definition, which is highly ridiculous. Most people understand and follow the doctrine of veganism, which minimizes use of animal consumption to practicality and necessity. You need a phone and a computer in this day, and you're still considered a vegan even if you take medication that has animal products. By their strictly literal perspective, veganism does not exist. They're also known to attack people simply because they can't comprehend definitions.
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  26.  @noelkoraith2739  As a vegan, MOST of us are actually normal.
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  27. If you want an actual answer, its because that lion nutritionally needs meat to survive. Humans do not, outside of those with medical problems. They would also argue that you should have a higher moral judgement than a lion. If someone kills and eats a dog, they get slapping with a 15 year sentence. Why is a dog different from a chicken? Just playing devil's advocate here.
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  28.  @janieswanson2549  Yes I do, and even clairfied in that sentence that outside of those with health problems, humans in general do not need meat to be healthy.
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  29.  @janieswanson2549  I never lied about being a vegan. I was a vegan for damn near close to 8 years. Its not my fault you don't understand how definitions of words work.
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  30.  @janieswanson2549  Actually, the definition is a person who does not eat any food derived from animals and who TYPICALLY does not use other animal products. This is because veganism's intentions were to minimize animal products consumed and to stop the killing of animals for the purpose of convenience. Animal products used in LED devices aren't slaughtered for the product. On top of that, the doctrine states "as far as is practical". Almost no one would be vegan if you were 100% restricted, as most medications have trace amounts of animal products. Continue being dishonest if you want, but it literally means nothing. I never pretended to be vegan, nor did I ever virtue signal. I have never cared if other people chose to eat or use animals. I just corrected misinformation and allowed people another perspective You are literally the person who can't read and/or changes the definition of a word to suit their narrative. Please go back to 9th grade language. A phone is not practical or possible to avoid. That's ridiculous. And you even deliberately left out parts of the definition of the person, which by the way is "a person who practices veganism". You're just another ignorant moron who doesn't understand how language works and gets her rocks off by insulting others.
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  31. You do realize that not only has God never been proven to exist, but the human digestive system is not designed to process meat. Eating meat in moderation will not harm you, but your body isn't meant to process it the way most people eat it.
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  32. That isn't the moral argument.
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  33. @KebenaranBukanMilikAndaAtaupunSaya But we do objectively know. People's beliefs do not trump facts.
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  34. @KebenaranBukanMilikAndaAtaupunSaya Some science is interpretation. Until it can be proven through the scientific method
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  35. Vegans don't use any animal based products, including things like leather, wool, fur, or silk used in clothing. That may be why they're dressed a certain way.
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  36. Absolutely.
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  37. There is no "right diet" for everyone.
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  38. I have no issue with that. They must to stay healthy.
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  39. Humans are animals. Facts don't care about your feelings.
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  40.  @thomasmerano8926  You're not wrong but you're not really right either. They emit chemical signals during a change of any outside stimuli, not just when being cut or harvested. So to say that they emit "distress" is really misleading. Chemical reactions occur when a cell wall is damaged, but that is not akin to feeling.
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  41.  @thomasmerano8926  No. Its okay. Personally, I think people should eat what makes them healthy and happy.
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  42. I wouldn't generalize vegans like that. Most of us are very sensible.
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  43. In general, a typical vegan diet tends to be healthier. I believe that's what they meant.
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  44. Sure, some vegans have a shorter lifespan. But...so do non-vegans. You can get protein in vegan foods. Soybeans are a complete protein. Your statement about protein and b-12 is just...false. if you aren't getting these in your diet, you aren't doing the diet correctly.
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  45. What makes you think that? I'm sure there are plenty of vegans who could kick your ass.
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  46. Why so angry?
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  47. Higher intake of red meat and poultry is associated with significantly increased risk of developing diabetes, which is partially attributed to their higher content of heme iron in these meats. Not saying that in moderation its bad. Just saying.
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  48. Humans are also animals. Besides mass war and pollution, what purpose do humans serve? Not saying whatever you eat is bad. But your argument is kinda flawed.
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  49. Depends on your body. You can certainly be completely healthy on a vegan diet just as you can be completely healthy on a vegetarian or a meat incorporated diet.
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  50. That is not how that works.
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  51. And why is that?
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  52. If you do a vegan diet right, there is no excuse not to have enough protein. The problem is people jump into the vegan diet like they would an omnivorous diet, and it doesn't work like that. Veganism requires complimenting and preparing meals.
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  53. Humans are animals. We're mammals.
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  54. Not for everyone.
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  55. It depends on what kind of vegan you are.
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  56. The point of any debate is never to change the opposing side. Its to open up a dialogue so that people who watch the debate who don't have a stance on the issue can decide for themselves.
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  57. I mean...to be fair...if you're playing in traffic and get hit, then it IS your fault.
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  58.  @NiixYT  As a vegan, someone who is THAT extreme about veganism would definitely have gotten vegan alternatives...
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  59. Eh. Not really. Its probably healthier, since you know. Grass really has no nutrients for people.
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  60. Generalizing is a joke.
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  61.  @palomoarredondo2323  A pathologist, also called a medical examiner, is a medical doctor who works with the dead. Technically, I'm still an assistant, as I have not quite finished my rotation. You can call me a liar if you want, but I'm proud of the work I do. Graduated from medical school in 2016, and am finishing up my last year of training.
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  62.  Jay P  If your argument is that "fortified stuff" is supplementation, then everyone supplements. Because most foods are fortified, vegan or otherwise. Sure, the EASIEST way would be to take pills, but thats not something you have to do. You can simply compliment your food. I don't need a solid plan either. Its easy for me and becomes routine after a while. Being vegan is not unnatural, but it is different than our ancestors. But you say that as if its a bad thing when it isn't. You're not at any risk for malnutrition or neurological issues if you do a vegan diet correctly. This is why its important to talk to medical professionals when choosing a diet. I live below the poverty line, am vegan, and do not take supplements. But I choose to do it for health reasons, because meat for me was incredibly unhealthy. But my diet does not work for everyone. Again, if you're doing the diet correctly, you do not need supplementation. Need equates a necessity, which is something meat is not. I can live a perfectly healthy and normal life without meat and without pills.
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  63. The ethical issue isn't life. Its sentience and the hypocrisy of the animal hierarchy.
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  64.  @ab-js2gw  Because they have no brain, therefore cannot be sentient.
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  65. Actually, by the doctrine we can. The animals that are found in crude oil were not killed to make it. They died on their own. Veganism (as a moral standing) is more about unnecessarily using animals where they are killed or harmed specifically for a use when you have alternatives.
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  66. Thats not the argument.
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  67.  @TheYagga  Sentience means the ability to think and feel subjectively. Plants do not do that. They have no brain.
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  68.  @TheYagga  I never said plants weren't living. They certainly are, and they respond chemically to outside stimuli. Its not an assumption. Its a fact. The ability to be aware and feel pain depend on a brain and a nervous system. Personally, I'm not a vegan for moral reasons. I'm vegan because its healthier.
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  69. Thats a geographic thing. It is absolutely cheaper to be vegan where I live. Sorry that you don't have access.
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  70.  @squidiirue9365  Absolutely. I as a vegan, do not claim that extremist.
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  71. Why's that? I'm a vegan in the science field.
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  72.  @fusilism  To be honest, most people don't. Most people think we're at the top of the food chain, for instance, when we aren't.
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  73. Many products that cause diabetes are not vegan. I think that was her point.
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  74. The reason vegans don't wear wool is because when sheep get older, they no longer produce enough wool, and are shipped off to slaughter. That's my understanding at least
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  75. The vegans I know view medicine differently. Meat is a luxury whereas medicine is a necessity.
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  76. Animals didn't remain the same. They evolved as well. And humans are animals. Thats just a fact... Also no. Animals were here for thousands of years before humans.
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  77.  @robertjusic9097  No, my point was if your going to be fine with eating pigs, than there's no reason to not eat dogs. They should be on the same level, except one is a class A felony. By the way, I don't care what people eat. I'm playing devil's advocate.
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  78. I think she meant in general. Veganism is healthier in general, but can also be unhealthy when done wrong.
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  79. Yes, human beings are animals.
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  80. True. But they aren't sentient like animals are.
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  81. That depends on what meat your talking about compared to which vegetable.
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  82. Humans are animals. We just lucked out on the fusion of chromosome 2. We really AREN'T that different.
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  83. It can. Depends on the person.
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  84. They can be. They don't have to be
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  85. The point of being vegan from a moral perspective is to reduce the amount of sentient lives lost. You're not capable of existing without unfortunately destroying some type of sentient life.
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  86. Not gonna lie. I'd save my cat over a human stranger.
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  87. You can, however, easily find tatoo shops that use vegan ink.
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  88. Technically speaking. Its not that we believe humans are animals. Humans are animals. Thats a fact.
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  89. I'm a vegan. I'll answer.
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  90. Of course they're living. They do not feel pain however, nor are they sentient.
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  91. Veganism abstains from all non animal products whereas vegetarians only abstain from meat.
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  92. From an ethical perspective, you don't need meat. A lion does. And you should have a higher moral compass than that. I'm not an ethical vegan, I'm just pointing out their perspective.
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  93. Vegans or extremists? Because there's a difference.
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  94.  @janieswanson2549  I'm not going to have this conversation with you again, because you only believe in veganism in the most strict sense. In which case, no one is vegan so the point is moot. If, however, you are ever open to actually discussing what veganism actually means instead of being literal, I'd be open to discussion.
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  95.  @janieswanson2549  The point is moot with you in particular, because you don't understand how language works. So I'm not sure what you want me to say. You'll just use ad hominems and ignore the point anyways. If you'd like to have a discussion, I'm more than open to it.
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  96. Guess where most of those crops go? Livestock feed.
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  97. Hi there! I'm one! She's extremist as hell.
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  98. And...that's not the argument.
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  99. Not sure what I did to you...
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  100.  @jimmylogan1866  And why do you hate me? Why does my choice not to eat meat and be healthy make you hate me?
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  101. Most vegans are normal
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  102. No they can't. And you do know that the animals raised for slaughter don't have "happy" deaths right?
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  103.  @nomisseyer9809  It is not a painless death. Especially for meat that is kosherd. They just do their best to make it as quick as possible. Because it can damage the meat. Not out of genuine care for the animal.
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  104.  @FaaduProductions  Nice comeback with 0 points.
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  105. You can get plenty of protein from vegan foods, so thats not really an argument.
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  106. Yes. We are. We're mammals.
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  107. And what about those who don't believe in your God?
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  108.  @iceblaze3043  Sin only exists to those who are religious.
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  109.  @iceblaze3043  You are not living in reality. Your God has no evidence behind it. It is simply a belief you hold. And its funny you should mention flat earth, considering the Bible states the earth is a flat circle.
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  110.  @iceblaze3043  I don't know what evidence I would need. But if your God is all knowing, they would know what evidence to show me. Read Isaiah.
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  111.  @iceblaze3043  Perhaps. No evidence has been shown to be, so I withhold belief until there is. And no, I wouldn't call that coincidence. I would look for a reason as to why that happened.
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  112.  @iceblaze3043  I take no risk as an atheist. I cannot lose. And I do not need a God to live a healthy and joyful life. Thats extremely condescending
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  113.  @mitjamackenzie1219  You means in terms of the food chain? Tigers, Hyenas, Crocodiles, Komodo dragons, and Bears are a few examples.
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  114. For the same reason you put humans above animals. Sentience and cognition.
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  115. Because food chains are based on trophic levels, of which we are not at the top. We're in the upper middle. Food chains are not scientifically based on what you could eat. They're based on a standardized nutritional need. You would not survive if you ate like a carnivore.
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  116. Technically, the animal carcasses in crude oil and natural gas are vegan. Those animals were not willingly killed for that oil. They died millions of years ago naturally.
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  117. Religion and feelings don't care about facts. Humans ARE animals. Get over it.
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  118.  @sauloa1748  Are you mad that you're wrong? By the way, great job on proving you don't know how evoultion works
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  119.  @sauloa1748  You do realize evoultion is a proven fact correct? Or are you that deep in cognitive dissonance
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  120. Playing devil's advocate, most vegans (even ethical ones) are pro-choice. The issue vegans raise with "life" has more to do the sentience, and the somewhat hypocritcal heriarchy of life. Most ethical vegans I know think that if you don't need to take a sentient life to be happy and healthy, then morally you shouldn't. But it has more to do with sentience, something a fetus does not have at the time of most abortions.
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  121. Depends on geography.
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  122. Not necessarily. Everyone is different.
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  123. Well, if we want to be technical the food chain itself is a man-made concept designed to show what happens in nature. Also, we're not at the top. We're in the middle.
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  124.  @REF_1.34  I find it incredibly hard to believe that you would save a human stranger over a pet you loved and cherished.
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  125. I have no problem with what anyone chooses to eat.
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  126.  @janieswanson2549  While you are correct in saying that LCD screens usually contain animal products, no vegan would consider this reasonable. Medication isn't vegan, but any reasonable vegan would make exceptions for necessity. You're, at this point, arguing semantics. Electricity isn't vegan. Yet its a necessity unless you live in a farm area. Your really reaching here.
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  127. No they don't. They do not have brains.
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  128. Most vegans however, are not like her.
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  129. Veganism certainly helped me get healthy. I had so many intestinal problems eating meat. But, I know that my diet is not for everyone.
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  130. On the ethical side of veganism, its not about life. Its about sentience.
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  131.  @huh5007  Ahh thats okay. Most people don't. Even us as vegans forget sometimes lol.
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  132. That sounds like biased opinions rather than facts.
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  133. I'm a dietary vegan. I went vegan simply because its healthier for me.
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  134. There is no vitamin aside from B12 that you get in meat that you cannot get in a vegan diet. B12 can be added to rice, soy and almond milk. I don't care what you eat, but there is no reason to eat meat.
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  135. You mean by saving an animal over a human? That's not first degree murder...
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  136. Thats not the issue, on the moral aspect at least
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  137. No. Its a summary of why you should avoid extremism.
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  138. Thats just....factually untrue. There will never be a time where everyone is vegan.
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  139. Because they have to. Humans do not.
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  140. Lions have a nutritional need for meat. Humans do not. Lions don't have a cognitive moral compass. Humans do. Thats how that works from the moral argument.
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  141. Not everyone believes in your fairytales.
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  142. Humans are animals. So if we're being technical, animals do vote.
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  143.  @suhani.13  Other animals can't vote because we lucked out on the fusion of chromosome 2.
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  144. B12 is the only vitamin not naturally found in vegan foods, and its easily added to almond and rice milks. If you are not getting all your nutrients on a vegan diet, you are doing something wrong. Though I agree in balance and moderation.
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  145. Most vegans at one time were meat eaters, and a mother consents to her child feeding from her.
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  146. I'm sorry that it didn't work for you, but thousands of other individuals find very healthy lifestyles in veganism.
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  147. No, thats not really true. We have more than enough land. Its just that most of our crop produced doesn't go to human consumption. It goes to animal livestock.
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  148.  @masseyman9949  The cheapest foods in the world are vegan. Lentils and grains. I believe that's what he meant.
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  149. I think, as a vegan, because these particular extremists believe they have a superior moral authority and that they must spread that. I promise you that most pf us aren't like this.
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  150.  @EveDrop.  No, you didn't. I just wanted to prove that normal vegans exist!
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  151. No. But wolves, sharks and lions need meat to survive. Humans, for the most part, do not.
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  152. Even in a "natural setting" we wouldn't be the top.
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  153.  @justahuman4616  Just depends on the person. Meat can be unhealthy, but so can anything.
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  154. Because thats untrue?
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  155.  @zahza2707  Thats a very small percentage of the population. If its for medical reasons, none of the ethical vegans I know would have a problem.
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  156. Well, thats because predators in nature a) need meat to survive as its essential to their diet and b) don't have a sense of right and wrong. From the moral aspect, humans do. And we don't need to eat meat. You eat meat because you enjoy it.
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  157.  @nico-i9v  Ehh...that depends on the meat and how it's processed. Some meat is unhealthy. But at the same time, french fries are vegan. And those are also unhealthy. Be a meat eater if you want. Be a vegan if you want.
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  158. I don't care what you eat, but humans do not eat grass...
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  159. Just because we are humans does not mean we aren't animals. We are.
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  160.  @bobtheman6996  But it doesn't. It can't feel
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  161.  @bobtheman6996  Yep! That would be me.
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  162.  @bobtheman6996  Well thank you. To be honest, I personal don't think I'm pretty but you know. Also, I may be vegan, but I'm a strong supporter in eating whatever makes you feel happy and healthy.
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  163. I know I won't save them. I just don't participate in their death.
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  164. You aren't doing the diet correctly if you have a B12 deficiency.
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  165. Because we're not. That's just a scientific fact.
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  166. Lots of us.
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  167. Not really. This shows how extremists can be emotionally unstable. Its kinda ignorant to generalize.
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  168. Vegans or extremists?
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  169. You also raise your risk of developing diabetes by eating meat. Especially red and processed meat. Sodium, nitrates and heme iron are terrible in excess.
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  170. Hate to break it to you. You're not the top of the food chain.
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  171.  Kaleela Edwards  Except we're not. Food chains are based on trophic levels. We are upper middle with pigs.
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  172. As a vegan, thank you. I detest those who shame choices based on moral high ground.
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  173. Humans do not have to eat meat. You can be healthy without meat in your diet. The point is to find the diet thats best for you. And you shouldn't be judged for that
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  174. Here are the answers: 1. Because predators have a nutritional need to eat meat. 2. There is nothing found in meat that cannot be found in plants except B12. You eat meat because you were raised to. 3. Plants are alive, but are not sentient. 4. Vegans do not eat fish. 5. Again, because they're predators and need meat. 6. Potatoes and casserole. Vegan meat is also available.
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  175. The moral issue isn't because of life. Its because animals are sentient. They can think and feel, just like humans.
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  176.  @masterking7923  the argument from an ethical standpoint is not about life. Its about sentience.
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  177. Because many vegans were once meat eaters and enjoy the taste of meat.
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  178. But they do have rational thought. Just not the same way humans do.
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  179. Conclusion: Broad generalizations make you look silly.
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  180. You can actually buy vegan makeup and hair dye though.
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  181. @KebenaranBukanMilikAndaAtaupunSaya No, there are plenty of facts. Facts that have been proven. Such as plants not having a conscious or sentience.
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  182.  @junkynote4799  Plants have no brain, brainstem or nervous system to be sentient. Thats not to say they aren't living. They are. But they aren't sentient. They are incapable of understanding or feeling. Animals on the other hand are. Its hypocritical to have a hierarchy of animals where some deserve protection and others deserve death. Thats the moral argument.
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  183.  @brennanmason1973  Are...are you serious? That question is not even relevant. One, someone being asleep will not stop them from feeling pain. Two, Oxygen does not decide whether something is sentient. Wolves are carnivores. They need meat to function. Humans do not.
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  184.  @brennanmason1973  It has nothing to do with feeling pain. It has to do with sentience. The ability to think and feel. Plants do not have this capability. A plant cannot register smell. It has no brain. They can however use chemical signals. Its how they survive. Murder doesn't apply to a wolf. Not only does it NEED meat, it has no moral compass. That's not the same as pallet pleasure. I do not take supplements, nor does any vegan I know. You do not need supplements to have a vegan diet. Everything, except B12 which you can get in soy, almond and rice milks, you get in meat you can get in a vegan diet. Try again.
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  185.  @UserNameClassifed  No, I don't. Humans have never cared about life. They care about sentience. Its not life that is the moral issue. I am well aware people don't share the same morals, which is why I don't believe in arguing from morality. I'm vegan for health reasons.
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  186.  @UserNameClassifed  Humans most certainly do not need meat to survive, and I personally know 0 vegans, myself included, who take supplements. I never said we were herbivores, so I have no idea why you're pulling that out of your ass. Eat what you want.
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  187. The human body has evolved out of eating meat actually. It was necessary at one point, but it is no longer that way. By all means, eat what you want. You can live a healthy life either way. But your digestive system isn't actually designed for processing meat.
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  188.  @henrybaughan907  Just because we can eat meat doesn't mean you should. But it also doesn't mean you can't. We are not obligate omnivores. We don't need meat. But everything in moderation.
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  189.  @henrybaughan907  You can be healthy on either diet. You can also be unhealthy on either diet
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  190. Thats not true. Vegan food is delicious.
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  191.  @gdslowingunicorn1806  Not really. You'd be amazed at the variety of food vegans can eat.
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  192. Anyone who is honest would save their animal companion over a human stranger.
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  193. You can just have vegan pizza. Or vegan ice cream.
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  194. Well no. I want to preface this by saying I'm not an ethical vegan. I'm vegan for health reasons. But I will play devils advocate. We don't eat animals becauae they are sentient, as humans are. They experience the same emotions as we do and we also don't like the animal hierarchy hypocrisy. Plants may be alive, but they aren't sentient.
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  195. In general, yes it is. Especially if done right. Diet should be thought about by the person. You can be unhealthy as a vegan and healthy as a non-vegan.
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  196. I don't care what you eat, but by that logic, what is wrong with cannibalism?
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  197.  @like31000  Not true. Its not any less healthh from a medical perspective than pork.
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  198.  @like31000  Eating human meat can in rare circumstances cause prion diseases. But so does eating pork and beef.
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  199.  @like31000  Thats just a flat out lie. Serial killers known to cannaibalize people and those who resorted to cannibalism for survival didn't get sick.
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  200.  @yoursports6910  Just because the nutrients you need are in those things does not mean you can't get them from other sources. You can get your required amount of vitamin D just from being outside and leafy greens are incredibly high in zinc. You can get these things without the problems that red meat can cause like hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and atherosclerosis. In terms of nutrition wise, most people do not need meat.
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  201. Humans can be omnivores. They do not have to be. We could argue that it is hypocrisy to put animals on a pedestal. If you killed and ate a dog for meat, you would go to prison for animal abuse, yet a chicken doesn't matter. Thats the moral aspect anyways
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  202. No, you're not. Thats a broad generalization.
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  203. Technically speaking. You can also be a non-vegan on a vegan diet.
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  204. You can have nutritious food without meat.
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  205.  @starzpolar6546  That isn't true. You can be perfectly healthy without eating meat. You don't need meat. You can, however, be perfectly healthy having meat in your diet. So find the diet that works best for you.
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  206. Vegetarians abstain only from animal meat. Vegans abstain from all animal products including meat, dairy, eggs, honey, wool, silk, fur and leather. Some more ethical vegans are also against pet ownership.
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  207. You don't if you can prove they are up to date on their shots.
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  208. Because we aren't.
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  209. Its because of evolution and we lucked out on the fusion of chromosome 2. Thanks frontal cortex.
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  210. No, we're not. We're the middle with pigs.
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  211. Thats not the argument. Plants are not sentient and humans in general have no nutritional need for meat. That's the vegan moral argument.
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  212. But thats not the issue ethically.
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  213. Most vegans draw a line at sentience. Its not so much comparing animals to humans as it is hypocrisy towards animals. Killing a cat or a dog, even for food, would land you a prison sentence. Why is it any different for a cow or pig? That kind of thing.
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  214. They can't suffer. They lack a nervous system.
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  215. Carnivorous animals cannot be vegan. They nutritionally need meat to survive. Humans are not carnivores. In fact, you could not live on a carnivorous diet. You would destroy your digestive system. Humans, technically, are frugavores, which are omnivores that favor fruits. The issue when it comes to the plants vs animals debate isn't life. Its senitence. Animals are sentient. Plants are not. I have no problem with a dietary choice, but please try to be informed.
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  216.  @listentochangeyourlife  No, I'm well aware of that. I know we are not the only animals that can eat meat. How is that relevant or hypocritical? You don't need meat to live like a carnivore does. Sentience requires a brain. Plants do not have brains nor nervous systems. So they physically can't be sentient. I don't even think you know what the word hypocrite means, since you can't spell it.
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  217. How did I hurt you?
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  218.  @boxer7982  But she doesn't represent the vegan community as a whole.
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  219. If people really feel that way, they just haven't done their research to be honest. Measuring by calories, broccoli has more protein than beef.
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  220. Not at all.
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  221. Most vegans have no problem with your choice. We just understand that you don't have to eat meat. The only thing I ask as a vegan is that you don't spread misinformation.
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  222.  @HYPERxSONICxFANx2012  If you truly have a dietary need for meat, then be all means. I take no issue with that.
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  223. I think they're usually speaking generally. In general, being vegan is healthier.
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  224. So...advocating for animals is a cult now? I mean...SOME are culty. But not the majority.
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  225. No, those are vegetarians. Vegans abstain from all animal based products. No milk, dairy, eggs, silk, leather etc. Unless it isn't made from animal byproducts.
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  226.  @lewismathers1331  But its not a fact. Humans ARE animals.
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  227. Too many generalizations. In general, veganism is healthier. But thats not always the case.
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  228. I don't see the comparison. Unless you mean extremists.
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  229. No, just be normal like everyone else without using animal products.
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  230. Its not wise to generalize
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  231. You shouldn't be malnourished if you're doing a vegan diet correctly.
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  232.  @tseriesbad6746  They don't though.
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  233.  @thomasmerano8926  Because its a fact. They do not have brains nor nervous systems. They can't feel.
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  234. You can certainly reach a middle ground with most vegans. I understand why you eat meat, and that is your preference. However, to spread that its an unhealthy diet is a lie. It may not be right for everyone, but it certainly can be healthy. We are animals as well, and I think the moral side has to deal with hypocrisy.
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  235. For the same reason people look down on hunting and cooking humans or companion animals. Because they're sentient creatures that don't deserve treatment like that. If most people knew how their burger got from field to plate, I know many people who wouldn't eat it. But you do you. Perhaps some people just prefer not to harm animals.
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  236. Just because humans are animals does not mean you need meat. You don't. At least not in general.
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  237. Eh. Thats not true. Dietary needs and balance vary from person to person.
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  238. Not true. It general, its healthier than eating meat. But nothing works for everyone. If you're healthy and a meat eater, then most vegans don't have an issue.
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  239. They would both probably die depending on what plants and animals were in that forest, but the omnivore would probably survive longer. What argument are you trying to make?
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  240.  @flyingreins  No, an omnivorous can be a correct diet for a human. Humans are not obligate omnivores. They don't need meat with access to proper nutrition. Depends on the specific animals involved. Yes, and some of them have completely died out because of parasite present in food. Prion diseases for instance. If you live in the West, you can be completely healthy (and in general healthier) than a person who consumes meat products. I have never been healthier now that I'm vegan. But its not for everyone.
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  241.  @SaturatedCat  Veganism has nothing to do with depression but looking unhealthy doesn't mean they are. I'm heather as a a vegan
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  242.  @SaturatedCat  Anything can lead to mental health issues, especially if you have undiagnosed problems. You cannot solely blame that on a lifestyle choice. Meat-eating fed my depression, because I was already self-conscious about my body. Everyone is different.
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  243.  @SaturatedCat  If you do the vegan diet properly, you won't have any nutrient deficiencies.
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  244.  @SaturatedCat  Again, if you do a proper vegan diet, you don't need supplements. I've been vegan for over a decade and take 0 supplements. All of my nutrients come from food.
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  245. I'm a nice vegan. We're not all like this.
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  246. Sentience.
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  247.  @muhammadnailrifqillah7893  Plants don't have sentience because they lack a nervous system and brainstem.
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  248.  @muhammadnailrifqillah7893  She does not speak for all vegans.
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  249.  Furry Destroyer  One, not a liberal. Two, plants can't feel pain, as they lack a central nervous system or a brain.
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  250. No one. They know plants are alive. But they aren't sentient.
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  251. Plenty of us!
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  252. Lions nutritionally need meat. Humans do not.
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  253.  @Mawgielas  Humans are animals but thats not the point. I mean personally, I don't care what you eat
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  254.  @Mawgielas  Well, thats your diet.
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  255.  @Mawgielas  Pretty good so far.
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  256.  @dickcheese4325  Humans do not need meat.
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  257.  @dickcheese4325  Where is your evidence that we do? There is nothing meat offers that cannot be gotten other ways, even in lower quantities or harder to obtain.
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  258.  @dickcheese4325  You never gave any evidence. Humans are not obligate omnivores. We do not need meat.
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  259.  @foop2954  Need meat? Yes. There are certain conditions people have where they need meat. I was speaking in general. A healthy and normal individual does not need meat.
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  260. Its not a fact. In fact, its not even correct. Scientifically, food chains are based on diets. Humans would be in the middle upper trophic level.
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  261. It depends on who you ask. Oysters are animals, so some say no. But they also lack sentience, so some say yes.
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  262. Pehaps eating less meat will improve those grammar skills.
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  263. And I'm sure that if your beloved puppy and a stranger you'd never met were both drowning, you'd save the stranger? No. You'd save the animal you formed a bond with. Psychology isn't so black and white.
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  264. Nothing wrong with thinking its okay to eat meat, but other animals do it because they have a nutritional need to, wheras humans do not. You can get protein and iron in non-animal products.
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  265. Extremists is more accurate.
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  266. I highly doubt you would save some stranger you knew nothing about over your animal you raised and grew an attachment to. That is psychology.
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  267. Why? Because I don't eat what you do? Or do you just mean extremist vegans?
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  268.  @rodrigobento4570  Eh, I'm just bored and like to pick people's brains about their opinions is all.
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  269. Yep. My husband isn't vegan and I am. Most of us aren't pushy.
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  270.  @janieswanson2549  You're still showing how unintelligent you are by using insults that actually make no sense, as I've never been chubby or overweight? Go drop another grand on your bleaching there, bimbo. Also, legit? Take an English class. Because you don't understand prescriptive and descriptive terms, nor do you actually understand how definitions work.
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  271.  @janieswanson2549  I'm really not jealous. I'm happy with how I look, what I'm accomplishing, and my family life. But its honestly, like seriously, really sad to see someone who is so pretty to have such an ugly attitude, especially when their insults don't make sense. You actually don't. But I have told you more than once that if that is the definition you want to use, then I will happily say I'm not a vegan. Because by the prescriptive, broad and strict definition, I wouldn't be. But that isn't how words work. A vegan is a person who follows veganism. Then I gave you the definition of veganism. And that's not enough. So take it up with a linguist. And no honey. I've never been overweight. Even at my heaviest in those videos, I was right where I was supposed to be weight wise. Believe it or not, you actually can't tell someone's weight just from looking at their face and shoulders. The vegan society's own website states a vegan is a person who abstains, exculuding necessity, all animal products and their derivatives, including food, cosmetics and clothing.
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  272. No. Vegetarians abstain only from meat. Vegans abstain from all animal products including honey, dairy and eggs.
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  273. Ethical vegans have a problem with killing other sentient creatures. Things that have emotions and feel pain. Plants do neither of these.
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  274. No, having a balanced diet is what helped us develop our brains. And meat, as a source of protein when none was available, certainly contributed to that. However, that is no longer the case.
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  275. In general, being vegan is healthier.
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  276.  @rue353  I literally said "I know." I'm sure there are vegans that take supplements. I've seen it. If they need to take Vitamin D or Vitamin B12, they're not doing the diet right.
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  277.  @rue353  That isn't what it says. "Literally no vegan, including myself, I know take supplements."
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  278. That doesn't make us the top of the food chain. We're not. There are apex predators that would naturally eat humans were they available. Thats just scientifically however.
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  279. Plants aren't sentient.
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  280. We don't live in the Ice Age anymore. Most people, especially in the West, do not need meat.
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  281.  @eamonmac2751  You shouldn't if you don't want to. And no one should judge you for that. The thing is, you don't need to, and some find it hypocritical.
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  282.  @eamonmac2751  Science also says you don't need meat. Plants and animals being alive is not the moral issue. Plants are not sentient. Animals are. You eat meat because it tastes good, not because its nutritionally required. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I don't think I'm superior to you just because I'm vegan. I do, however, think I have a different perspective on morals, thought their my own and not better.
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  283.  @eamonmac2751  It does. But so does vegan food. In fact, Seratin which is "vegan meat" contains more protein per ounce than beef. Food taste just depends on your pallet. I abhore the taste of most meat. But thats just me. I have no problem with whatever diet one chooses to follow. I just don't like generalizing or misinformation.
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  284. Its both. Some do it for moral reasons, others for health.
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  285.  @Penguinstudios123  As long as you consume or use no animal based products, you're vegan. My point was that many vegans, myself included, may live a vegan lifestyle, but are vegan mainly for health reasons. Trying to take a moral highground makes you look like an asshole.
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  286.  @laukikpatade8400  Extremists are quite irrational.
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  287. In general, it is. But it can also be extremely unhealthy. Just like any diet.
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  288. Its called a balanced diet.
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  289. Thats a geographic thing.
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  290. There's also a really educated side to being vegan, but I get the impression most people would have the same reaction if vegans beought up vaild points.
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  291. Humans do not need meat, excluding those with dietary necessities or those who cannot afford plant based foods. Lions need meat to survive.
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  292.  @thankyouforbeingafriend9632  No. Most humans do not. Though there are people who do.
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  293. Its not insane. Its honest. You develop emotional connections with animals. You're a great ape. And anyone who claims they would save a stranger over their dog that they raised since puppyhood is a liar.
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  294. Because fruits and vegetables in general are healthier than most meat and animal products. Not always. But in general.
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  295. The point being made is that we become psychologically attached to animals just as we do with people. If its a choice between my cat and a stranger, I'm saving my cat first. I have a connection with that animal.
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  296. Most vegans actually don't do that.
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  297. And humans are mammals. Which are a catagory of animals. Sorry, but we are animals.
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  298.  @TheKillerZmile  Thats your belief. Thats not a fact.
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  299. Its physically impossible to feel pain without a nervous system or a brain based on the definition of pain.
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  300. Whats inherently wrong with those things
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  301. For the simple fact that you do not have a nutritional need for animal meat in the west, whereas other animals do.
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  302. You can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet if you do it right.
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  303. No one is pro abortion. If you're referring to pro choice, these things have nothing to do with one another.
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  304. Seitan, the meat substitute, tofu and soy milk are all amazing sources of vegan/vegetarian protein.
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  305. That doesn't make an omnivorous diet the best for everyone. The best diet is whatever make each individual healthy and happy
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  306. That is absoutely not true. While certain conditions may make a plant based diet unsuitable, that is not the case for a majority of humans. Most people don't need meat. They eat it beacuse they want to. Don't care what you eat, but don't spread misinformation.
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  307.  Furry Destroyer  Humans can be either or. Our canines are not the same as a carnivorous animal. But anything in moderation.
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  308.  Furry Destroyer  Says who? Humans have the capacity to be healthy on all diets except a strictly carnivorous one. To say humans aren't "supposed to be" vegetarian is silly.
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  309.  Furry Destroyer  And I'm saying you are wrong. No, I'm not misinterpreting your argument.
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  310.  Furry Destroyer  No. I'm saying anatomically, meat damages the body over periods of time and excess. So take everything in moderation and pick a diet that is right for you and your needs. My point to you is no human requires meat. That is a want, not a nutritional need
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  311. Yeah, the dairy isn't good either. Not in those amounts.
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  312. But this is a poor representation of vegans
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  313. Oh please. Don't pretend like younwould save a stranger over your pet.
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  314. Most of the grown food goes to livestock. Veganism is about reducing the amount of sentient life used. At least in an ethical sense.
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  315. Its entirely possible to live a healthy life on a vegan lifestyle. Soybeans have all amino acids necessary. They're a complete protein.
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  316. Plenty of vegans are normal. I'm sorry
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  317.  @PeaceDweller  Being Vegan is not a mental illness. Thousands of years ago, we relied on meat for certain vitamins. As we evolved, our body evolved. There is nothing wrong with eating meat in moderation. But there is also nothing wrong with being vegan
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  318.  @at7860  Yes they are. What do you think we are?
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  319.  @at7860  Humans are mammals, which is a species of animal. We're great apes.
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  320.  @at7860  Well, it doesn't matter if you agree. That doesn't change the facts. Ethical vegans advocate for sentient life, which plants are not. And not all vegans are ethical vegans. I'm a vegan, but I don't care what you eat
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  321.  @at7860  Ethical vegans, to my knowledge, understand that humans cannot live without killing something that is living. Animals are sentient, and are able to think and feel. Somebody who is paralyzed would still be able to feel and think. Thats a ridiculous statement. More people are becoming vegan because its generally healthier and its better for the planet. Thats my experience.
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  322. Which is not the issue. The issue, morally, is that its hypocrisy. Livestock are sentient and have feelings. Why can they be slaughtered for food, but slaughtering a companion animal for food is a 15 year prison sentence? Its the hypocrisy and the hierarchy that I take issue with and thats why I'm personally vegan.
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  323. Thats partially because vegans abstain from all animal products, including clothing such as leather, wool and silk.
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  324. While I don't care what you eat, animals do not "live just to live". They feel the same emotions we do.
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  325.  @jeremydespair  Yes we do. There's plenty of research out there showing many different species of animals feeling joy, pain, excitement etc. Ask any pet owner.
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  326.  @jeremydespair Humans have "dreams and aspirations" only because of a pre-frontal cortex. Thats isn't what you implied in your original comment. You implied that animals just exist, as if they don't feel anything. Yes, they live to survive, but so do humans.
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  327. @Abel Abel Humans aren't at the top of the food chain. To be at the top of the food chain, your diet must strictly consist of predators.
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  328. @Abel Abel Again, that is not how we scientifically construct food chains. Even though its irrelevant, you're still being inaccurate.
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  329. Humans are animals. Thats just a biological fact
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  330. Its not cheaper in most places simply because of supply and demand, but in general it actually is healthier. B12 and omega 3's can be found in fortified vegan foods rather easily. Almond milk fortified with b12 is actually cheaper than cows milk where I live. You don't need supplements to be vegan. I'm surprised that lie is still around. No vegan I personally know takes supplements. That being said, you can also be perfectly healthy eating meat. Just a personal preference.
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  331. Then in all honesty, I think you're a hypocrite. But we all are so.
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  332.  @delvyntrinidad7131  No, you're just wrong. Humans are animals. Thats just a fact, whether you believe it or not.
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  333.  @lennymice2261  Because its...not relevant? Predatory animals need meat from a nutritional standpoint. Humans do not. Some moral vegans would also argue you, as a human, have a conscious.
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  334.  @STONKS_MemeMan  I'm hanging in there. That was a strange response.
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  335.  @STONKS_MemeMan  Yeah I'm making it. How are you?
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  336.  @lennymice2261  Your comment has no meaning.
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  337. Well, they are.
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  338.  @manelboudjellaba6537  Its not a belief. Its a fact. Animal: a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli. That would include humans. All humans are animals but not all animals are humans.
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  339.  @manelboudjellaba6537  So do other animals. They have minds, emotions and reasoning. Just different from humans. That doesn't mean scientifically we aren't animals. I would argue humans are worse than animals
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  340.  @manelboudjellaba6537  Humans also have instincts. Your sympathetic nervous system. And yes, animals do have minds and reasoning. That's how they survive to reproduce.
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  341. Most do actually.
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  342. The real answer: No. No we're not.
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  343. @Klack Koaster No, we're not.
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  344. @Klack Koaster If you google if humans were at the top of the food chain, then you would find that we weren't. Food chains are based on trophic levels. Humans rank a 2.5. That is not the top. I'd suggest actually researching. Since you clearly didn't.
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  345. @Klack Koaster That is not what defines a food chain dumbass. Just because nothing eats us on a regular basis doesn't make us an apex predator. We actually do have predators, including bears, crocodiles and lions. We just don't often reside in their natural habitat. To truly be at the top of a food chain, one must only consume the flesh of other predators. This is not humans. Take an ecology class.
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  346. @Klack Koaster Except we're not. And no ecologist or scientist will say that. Literally Google "are humans top of the food chain." Literally all the scientific articles say "No". Because we do not have the trophic level of an apex predator. You failed science hard man.
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  347. Except that isn't true. The milk that cows produce is SUPPOSED to go to its calf, since a cow only provides milk when its pregnant. Its us who decide to take that calf away, slaughter it for veal, and then take the milk.
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  348. I would say extremists are crazy. Most vegans are actually really nice.
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  349. Depends on where you live.
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  350. I like to think of myself as a normal vegan.
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  351. Are you saying animals aren't sentient? If so, you are mistaken. Yes, they are. Thats why animal abuse is a felony. Humans are animals. You're completely misunderstanding the arguement.
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  352.  @youcanthandlethetruth678  Sentience is the ability to think and feel subjectively. Most animals possess this. Humans lucked out on the fusion of chomosome 2. Thats one of the main reasons we have higher cognitive function. I don't care if you're vegan or not. I was just pointing out misinformation.
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  353.  @youcanthandlethetruth678  Our sentient level is not higher than others. Our COGNIZANCE is higher than others. Those are not the same word. No, SOME vegans are toxic, arrogant people. I am a vegan, and I am not toxic nor arrogant. I don't think I'm better than you just because you eat meat and I do not. To make a broad generalization like that is, frankly, ignorant. You are an animal. All humans are. Some people would prefer animals over other people.
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  354.  @youcanthandlethetruth678  You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it does. Please learn what the words you're using mean, have a basic understanding of the other sides position, and learn how to spell. Thank you.
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  355. We're not.
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  356. Because they have a nutritional need for meat.
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  357. Its because to be vegan, you abstain from all animal products. Including clothing.
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  358. Yes, humans are animals. Facts don't care about your feelings. Also, God has yet to be proven to exist.
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  359. Plants don't and can't feel pain. They have no nervous system.
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  360. They could if more people went vegan. Supply and demand.
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  361. While some vegans are extreme, the vast majority are not like that. Being vegan is healthy and sustainable. But, being vegan also isn't for everyone. While it may not be for you, advertising that it is unhealthy for everyone is a lie. Meat did the same thing to me that a vegan diet did to you. It gave me horrible digestive problems, raised my cholesterol and my blood pressure, and caused blood clots. Meat, for my specific body, is terrible. Do not go around claiming veganism is a cult. Its not. Its simply a lifestyle choice. "Truthfully there are more positives than negatives." Not true for most people. In fact, I could make the same arguement for consuming meat.
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  362. Hypothetically, in an ethical vegans world, we would also stop domesticating animals.
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  363.  @Relax4now  Well no. Because if we stopped domesticating them, they would naturally be born and die at steady rates. We force breed them through domestication. Thats why we have so many
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  364.  @Relax4now  I don't have anything against eating meat. But some people have a problem with the animal hierarchy.
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  365. Yeah okay. No you wouldn't. If your puppy and a stranger were both drowning and you could only save one, you'd save your pet. Don't be dishonest.
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  366. That is not a fact. I am not an arrogant vegan. I don't know what you're talking about with the farming. Most of the crops harvested go to animal feed for livestock, not human consumption.
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  367. Then you get organic produce.
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  368. Except, drunk or not, we're not the top of the food chain.
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  369. I'm all of those things, but no rational vegan is against people eating meat. They just explain why they don't. I can explain why, both physically and morally, I am vegan. But that doesn't mean I have anything against you eating meat. I don't know why you brought atheist and pro-choice up. You can be a moral person and be both those things.
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  370. No it wouldn't. You are under no legal obligation to help anyone who needs immediate help. Thats called the Bystander law. In fact, if you do help them, and something goes wrong, you can potentially be sued or brought up on criminal charges.
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  371. In general, it is.
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  372.  @LongdownConker  That is simply not true. I take no supplements. Other than B12, which can be added to things like rice milk, there is no nutrient you cannot get in a vegan diet. We can be omnivores. But we are not obligate omnivores. We don't HAVE to eat meat. Meat, especially processed and red meat, is bad for the heart, kidneys, and blood. I don't know where you are getting your information that you must have artificial help or supplements to have a vegan diet. Sorry, but medicine and science do not support you. Now, not all people can be healthy on a vegan diet and no one should have to be vegan if they don't want you. But you eat meat because you want to. Not because you must.
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  373.  @LongdownConker  I don't take a B12 supplement. Can you not read? Where did I ever say that? I drink milk that is fortified with B12. I bet even as a meat eater you eat fortified foods. We are NOT obligate omnivores. We don't NEED meat. I understand that in the wild or a 3rd world country, I would have to eat meat. But I don't. You do not need supplements for those things. You can get plenty of those nutrients in vegan foods. Its called complementary. Taking different foods and pairing them together. You are the one spreading lies saying you cannot be healthy on a vegan diet without supplements. That is simply not true. I see a doctor LESS than I EVER did on a meat based diet.
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  374.  @LongdownConker  And medicine disagrees. You are less prone to most cancers, heart disease, high blood pressure and stroke on a plant based diet than you are eating meat.
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  375. Thats a felony. I hope you know this.
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  376. Why though?
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  377.  @yourboykaster  I don't believe human life has inherent value.
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  378. Some vegans are because they believe they are morally superior. Most of us, however, are not like that.
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  379. Not true. If you need supplements, you're not doing the diet right and shouldn't be vegan. I've been vegan for 7 years and take no supplements.
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  380. Their skin is not yellow. Something's seriously wrong with your computer if you're seeing jaundice.
    1
  381.  @palomoarredondo2323  As someone who has worked in the medical field for several years, no its not there. And even if it was, that doesn't equate to being vegan. Could be a number of other reasons.
    1
  382.  @palomoarredondo2323  A "slight yellow" could be a multitude of things. Vein structure, undertone, lighting, the camera refraction, etc. No where does any of their skin look jaundiced. Oh, and by the way, if it was a B12 deficiency, their skin wouldn't be yellow. It would be a pale gray. You don't like veganism or the way these vegans were acting, so you are perpetuating the sterotype that veganism is unhealthy.
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  383.  @palomoarredondo2323  None of which they have. Their eyes are clear. Your seeing things that are not there. And even if I granted you early onset jaundice, there is no way you would see that on a youtube video with lighting like that. Yellowing of the skin or eyes could also be caused by a mulititude of other problems including hepatitis, sun damage, smoking, or reactions to certain cosmetics or medication. Your jumping to "liver failure caused by vitamin problems because veganism is unhealthy". And you're wrong.
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  384.  @palomoarredondo2323  No, they don't. And to continue to claim that proves you've never see what jaundice looks like in person. They're in a darkened warehouse with one overhanging low wattage bulb and barely any natural light. You are full of it. You didn't even know what jaundice was until I mentioned it. By the way, what makes you think they're white? Just because they look it? I'm not a doctor in a traditional sense. I don't work in a hospital. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but I'm not.
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  385.  @palomoarredondo2323  Smoking and diabetes don't necessarily translate to jaundice. Jaundice is specifically yellowing of the skin or eyes cause by the breakdown of red blood cells in the liver. I work as a forensic pathologist. And again, dim lighting by low wattage bulbs often give those who have naturally yellow undertones a yellowish look. But in direct light, you can clearly see normal skin and clear eyes.
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  386.  @palomoarredondo2323  I never said that veganism can't cause jaundice. I have seen people die from improper veganism. That being said, I have also seen spikes in stomach ulcers and colorectal cancer from meat eating. My point wasn't that veganism can't be unhealthy, or that vegans can't have health problems. My point is that diagnosing vegans through a screen as having a medical condition is foolish. Also, none of your replies have any linked sources.
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  387.  @palomoarredondo2323  If I saw someone in real life with a nose issue, that would be different than seeing them on a computer screen. Blood is easy to see. Skin pigmentation is not. And by the way, there is no link. I literally went back a reread all of your comments.
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  388. Actually, most ethical/extreme vegans don't own, nor agree with owning, pets and believe animals should stop being domesticated to be pets.
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  389. Vegans don't fight against animals that have a nutritional need for meat. Humans are not one of those animals. There was a time where that was the case, and in some cases, it still is. But that is no longer the case for the majority.
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  390.  @fury19k28  Well, I wouldn't because I'm not an ethical vegan. But no. Because animals like wolves do not have a sense of morality like humans do. Also, all canines, both domestic and non, need meat in their diet. Its a necessity.
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  391.  @fury19k28  They do need meat, because they are carnivores. Their body cannot absorb plant based protein. Can I ask what you think kibble is made from?
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  392.  @fury19k28  Depends on what type of food you're feeding your dog. There are people that allow their dogs to hunt. Your point is invalid. The issue of ethics comes from "if you don't need it, why should an animal die for it". No vegan has a problem with species that NEED meat to survive. Ethical vegans have a problem with killing animals because of a WANT. You don't need meat anymore. You want it.
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  393.  @fury19k28  Again, I'm not an ethical vegan. I think you should be able to eat whatever you want. I choose to be vegan for health reasons
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  394. @Abel Abel I am a vegan. I eat no animal products nor do I wear animal products. I just have chosen this life for health reasons.
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  395. @Abel Abel The only definition of veganism is a person who abstains from animal products. My main motivation for becoming a vegan in the first place was dietary. Not ethical.
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  396. @Abel Abel Yes, but I didn't say it was only for health reasons. Its mainly for health reasons. But if I can avoid killing animals by just avoiding material products, thats a plus. I don't feel screaming at someone about killing animals is a way to persuede people.
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  397. The point, in my opinion, of being vegan is to try it if you can. If you can't, that's okay. Do what's right for you.
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  398. I'm a vegan and do not agree with the vegans, but I do not value human life above animal life. Personally, I just don't believe life is intrinsically valuable. But thats just me.
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  399. Yes, but what does that have to do with veganism?
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  400. Yes it is, because its a fact that we're not.
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  401. If you live in a first world country, its not that hard to compliment. Hell, I live a healthy vegan lifestyle on food stamps. In terms of ethical vegans, the issue comes because predators need meat nutritionally. Humans do not. They believe humans also should have a sense of morality, and don't like the animal hierarchy hypocrisy.
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  402. You do realize that the reason most trees are cut down is to support a meat eater lifestyle right? To build livestock farms? I don't care what you eat, I'm just pointing out the issue in your argument.
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  403. Well no...they're carnivorous. They need meat nutritionally. You don't.
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  404. Humans are not predators. We don't naturally hunt for survival. We raise our own food through domestication. That's the first problem with your argument. Secondly, you (as a human) should have a higher moral compass than an animal. Why is it okay to slaughter a cow or a pig, but slaughtering a dog for food will land you 15 years in prison? And the biggest issue is that a lion needs meat from a nutritional standpoint in order to survive. Humans do not. And also, nearly all omnivorous or carnivorous animal species will eat their own kind. Cats especially are known to eat their offspring. By the way, I'm not criticizing what you eat. You be happy and healthy. Your points are just easily refuted.
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  405. No, but thats because certain animals have a nutritional need for meat. Humans do not. At least not the majority.
    1
  406.  Jay P  You do not have to supplement to be vegan. That is an absolute lie. Being vegan is certainly less convenient and is certainly harder to plan because it relys on complimenting. There is nothing in meat that cannot be found in a vegan diet aside from B12, which can be fortified in milk. So no. You don't need meat in general. And you don't need supplements.
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  407. No not necessarily. I am vegan mainly for health reasons, but I also abstain from wearing or using animal based products. I still debate from the stance of a dietary vegan, because arguing from ethics or morals rarely gets one anywhere.
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  408. I do. I understand the ethical side as well, but I don't think being nasty is the way to go about informing people.
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  409. If you have a B12 deficiency on a vegan diet, you're doing something wrong. And keto can be great for some, but has also raised atherosclerosis, heart disease, embolisms and colorectal cancer in others. I am so glad that we can have different diets and still understand that we can be healthy.
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  410. They can. But they don't have too.
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  411.  @donyamalak  B12 can be fortified in almond, soy and rice milks. And which amino acids? Amino acids make up protein. Soybeans have all amino acids.
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  412. They're not sentient like animals are.
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  413. The land that we use for farming mostly goes to farm animals. If we stopped raising them, they wouldn't just die. They would go back to eating what they want, and we'd save land. By the way, only a small portion of crops fed to humans and livestock is organic.
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  414. Well, just because I'm vegan doesn't mean I don't care. But animals are sentient wheras plants are not.
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  415. I don't mind what's said about vegans as long as its accurate. Some are extreme, and I'm sorry for that.
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  416. Because the vegans would have said that isn't the argument ethically.
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  417. We're not the top of the food chain actually, and we don't need meat. But to each their own.
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  418.  @dl4350  Thats not a fact. We're near the middle of the food chain. Food chains are based on trophic levels. But it really doesn't matter. I understand we are part of the food chain. We do have active predators.
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  419. If your allergy is to tree nuts, then there's still no medical reason you can't be vegan. Soy is a complete protein, and contains more protein than beef. By all means, do whatever is best for you! But you do have alternatives.
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  420.  @razgriz501  I'm very sorry to hear that. Regardless of if you have allergies or not, you should never be shamed for what you choose to eat.
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  421. They are alive, but they don't feel anything. They're not sentient.
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  422. Yes, because nothing sentient is being harmed to produce that milk.
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  423.  @llrxnzloll6831  No, thats not the same thing. On the moral aspect, a woman consents where a cow does not. But i'm not a vegan on moral reasons.
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  424. Soybeans are a complete protein. Not judging what you eat, but you don't need supplements to be healthy on a vegan diet.
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  425. Why?
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  426. Just because humans are a species of animal does not mean we have to eat them. Most people do not. You eat meat because you want it, not because you need it.
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  427. Your area is overrun with whitetail deer because you destroyed their predators. Know what a majority of crops grown goes too? Livestock feed.
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  428. You can be vegan and be a "person with a brain".
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  429. Its a generalization
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  430. If you have a nutritional need to eat meat, then no problem. However, that is not the case for the majority of people, especially in the west developed nations.
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  431.  @suffocatingplasticbag1064  Thats no problem either. Just find a diet healthy for you.
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  432. We know plants are alive. Thats not the argument.
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  433.  @janieswanson2549  You can keep arguing semantics, and I won't waste my time.
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  434.  @janieswanson2549  Except its a vague definition and is not the used or accepted one. But you refuse to see and/or acknowledge that.
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  435.  @janieswanson2549  Then no one is vegan, because literally everything contains trace amounts of animal products. Vegans get more specific than that, thats why the terms pratical and reasonable are used. Period.
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  436.  @janieswanson2549  Excuse me if it didn't put *practical. I cannot survive without a computer. Its how I make money. I take medication that I need to survive that has animal products in it. No rational vegan would say I wasn't vegan because of these reasons, as it is not reasonable to expect me to be without these things. I'm not virture signaling. I don't even give a fuck if you're vegan or not. I'm vegan for health reasons.
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  437.  @janieswanson2549  Again, if we wanted to use such a strict definition, veganism does not exist. End of story. I reply to everyone, whether or not they agree with me. No, its not. But your comments are coming through and I have the ability to reply. You can claim I'm not vegan. The vegan community and the original writers of what the vegan lifestyle is disagree with you. I personally do not care what you think of me. By your definition, I wouldn't be vegan anyway. So it doesn't matter does it? You continue following your rigid definition. I'll continue following the agreed upon definition.
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  438.  @janieswanson2549  I am vegan, and I'll keep replying. And actually yes I am according to the doctrine. Shall I post the definition for you again?
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  439. What's wrong with being vegan if you aren't an extremist?
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  440. Not all.
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  441. The point of being vegan, from an ethical sense, is to reduce the amount of sentient life lost. By the way, there aren't "special farms" that just "grow vegan food" and the vast majority of farms are for raising livestock. Not only that, most crops go to feed livestock.
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  442. Well humans are animals. What makes us so special?
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  443.  @ahoodification  Animals also have brains. Animals are sentient and feel pain. Plants do not.
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  444. You eat animals because you want to, not out of a nutritional need like lions do. That has nothing to do with nature and everything to do with the way you are taught. Life is not the problem morally. Its hypocrisy and sentience that is.
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  445. Thats not a fact. Thats a generalization dependent solely on Geography. It does not cost more money to be vegan where I live, but I understand that it may in other places.
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  446. No, but vegans don't wear clothes made from any animal products.
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  447. The wool thing is something I don't entirely understand (since I'm not an ethical vegan) but animal hair made from certain animals can only be done after killing them. I think the wool thing is because we shear them more often than necessary to keep up with demand. Milking is a whole different issue. Most animals only milk while pregnant and must be artificially inseminated. That milk is then supposed to go to the young, which is torn instantly from its mother.
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  448.  @Ian-fw2fp  Goats only milk year round if they have a baby that year.
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  449.  @Ian-fw2fp  A goats mammory glands only release a hormone to produce milk if it is pregnant. While you may not see its offspring, for the goat to milk, it must have had a baby. It is possible for them to continue milking without becoming pregnant again, but the milk produced isn't fresh and frankly, can make humans sick.
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  450. No, because a lion needs meat to be healthy, unlike humans
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  451. Its about sentient life.
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  452. No one is pro-abortion, and there are stark differences between a fetus and a sentient animal. Not to mention that most everyone would agree abortion is wrong. But its necessary.
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  453. You can get protein without eating meat. Lentils, beans, and spinach are excellent sources of protein.
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  454. No, those are extremists. I value human life on the same level as animals. But I also won't be nasty or rude to you because of your choices.
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  455. She's speaking in broad generalizations.
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  456. Humans do not need meat to be healthy. Unless of course you have certain medical conditions. You can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet without supplements.
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  457.  @tymeksamol8943  You can find B12 in fortified almond, soy and rice milks.
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  458. To be a vegan, you must abstain from all animal products, including clothing. It wouldn't be any different if everyone was vegan.
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  459. It depends on your ethics and how extreme you consider those ethics.
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  460. In general, it is. But it doesn't work for everyone. You should find what ia healthy for you.
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  461. Serial killers exist...
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  462. Uhh...no?
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  463. I think the point was strictly that ice cream isn't vegan...
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  464. God has never been proven to exist.
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  465.  @jameson6789  The burden of proof is on you.
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  466.  @jameson6789  No, you have a belief.
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  467.  @jameson6789  No, actually. I lack a belief in a God. Provide me evidence of said God and I will change my opinion. The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim.
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  468. But why does that matter?
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  469. Or you just understand psychology. Sorry, but I love my cat more than a human stranger.
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  470. The world did not overpopulate with animals before we got here. The only reason it would is if we stopped eating them, but continued to domesticate them. I'm sorry these extremists are the loudest. I promise we're not all like that.
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  471. If you're eating a proper vegan diet, malnourishment is no issue.
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  472. Most animals don't eat agriculture products in nature.
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  473.  @toysrusdumpsterbaby9837  Most if the vegans I personally know, myself included, are vegans for dietary reasons.
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  474. Depends on the person. Many people live extremely healthy on vegan lifestyles. See what works best for you.
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  475. We...we literally are animals.
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  476. I think what she meant was in general, eating a vegan or more plant based diet is healthier.
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  477. Most ethical vegans I personally know do not own pets. They think its ethically wrong to own another animal and to continue to domesticate them. I'm sure not all think this way, but the ones I know do. As a dietary vegan myself, if you MUST eat meat to be healthy, go for it. Humans, for the most part, don't. I think you should try veganism, and if you can't work with it, then di what makes you happy and healthy.
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  478. So first off, none of those are mental disabilities. Secondly, a majority of the population has mental illness. And third, I'm a straight, white, libertarian vegan. So the spectrum is vast.
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  479. I'm also the healthiest I've ever been. As a vegan.
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  480. No, its fact. Plants are not sentient. They lack a nervous system.
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  481. No they're not. They're radicals.
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  482. I'm pro-choice. I value sentient life, but I also value bodily autonomy.
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  483. No, thats not how a food chain works and humans are not at the top. We're near the middle. Bringing God into it invalidates you, as not everyone believes in God. Between veganism and abortion, on a moral level, one is hypocritical that destroys a sentient life and the other terminates the growth and development of a non-sentient parasite (in most cases). Find a diet that suits you. Thats the stance most vegans take. But at least take the time to understand why.
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  484. Yeah, that has nothing to do with blood type. That simply has to do with you bodies chemical composition. If she did have a bad reaction, its either because a) she didn't do the diet long enough; b) She didn't do the diet properly or c) she has a preexisting condition. I'm O- and have never been healthier being vegan.
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  485. Omnivore is not universally healthier than veganism. It just depends on each individual. And the way the meat industry works is certainly not better for our planet.
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  486.  @dutchpatriot17  That depends entirely on the person. I do much better on a vegan diet. But thats just me
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  487.  @dutchpatriot17  Thats not the opinion or consensus of any nutritionist. Humans as a collective don't have a diet they function best on. That's an individual thing. You can be an omnivore. You don't have to be
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  488.  @dutchpatriot17  No, actually its not. Some people do best on an omnivorous diet. Some people do best on a vegetarian or pescatarian diet. Some people do better on a vegan diet. It depends entirely on your body makeup. You're literally forming a strawman. Lions and cows function differently than humans. You are not an obligate omnivore.
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  489. But that isn't the argument.
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  490. Most vegans make acceptions for necessities, such as medication.
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  491. No and no. It is impossible to feel pain and be conscious without a brain and a nervous system.
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  492. Depends on where you live.
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  493. Most of us aren't :(
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  494. Inherently? Probably. Every living thing does to reproduce. Does it care? No. Its not sentient.
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  495.  @TheYagga  Yep. Though they do not have the same cognitive function as humans or lets say dogs.
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  496.  @TheYagga  No, we respond through signals from the brain. We do not respond chemically. And again. No. They don't feel pain. Pain is a sensation that can only be felt systematically. It can only be felt with a nervous system and a brain.
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  497. Thats not true. At least not in a 1st world country.
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  498. No its not.
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  499. Then in all honesty, you're kind of an asshole.
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  500. You can be healthy being vegan...
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  501.  @puls239  Being a meat eater does not necessarily mean eating healthy. You can eat healthy on any diet was my point.
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  502.  @puls239  I understand this. Your statement made it sound like you can't be healthy on a vegan diet.
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  503. If this question is serious, its because lions have a nutritional requirement for meat.
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  504. Humans are not obligate omnivores. You don't have to eat animals to be healthy.
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  505. You do not have to take supplements as a vegan unless you live in a developing nation or have a pre-existing medical condition. Everything found in meat can either be gotten naturally in vegan foods or in fortified vegan foods, such as B12 being added to milks.
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  506. Most aren't.
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  507. ...because its not.
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  508.  @LeuBlue  I disagree. It certainly can be healthy, but to claim it as one of the healthiest foods is a stretch.
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  509. You mean the deforestation that is mainly used for growing crops that are used as animal feed? Because thats where a majority of crops go.
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  510. Vegans abstain from all animal products, including clothing.
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  511. Not true at all. You can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet.
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  512. If you're doing the vegan diet right, you shouldn't be missing anything. If thats true, she's not doing the vegan diet right.
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  513. Humans are not at the top of the food chain. You are a terrible teacher.
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  514.  @andreasgeorgiades6895  Food chains are based on trophic levels. Some animals at the top include crocodiles, bears and komodo dragons. In a colloquial sense. You could say we're at the top. But scientfically we aren't
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  515. B12 can be gotten without meat artificially. Doesn't have to come from meat.
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  516. Thats not what a food chain is scientifically. We aren't at the top. to be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves.
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  517. Most animals need to eat animals to survive. Humans do not.
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  518. @The Cedar Yes, I understand that. That being said, you CAN digest plant based iron and protein. You do not nutritionally need meat. That was all I was saying.
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  519. @The Cedar Not really. Sure, you'd have to eat them more often, but you'd be surprised how many plants have easy sources of protein and iron.
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  520.  Pipi Land_Unlimited  No. And you shouldn't. People should eat what makes them happy and healthy
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  521. Whether or not you believe in a God, humans are animals. And by the way, your God has yet to be proven. Killing an animal with a bolt gun to the head, a fatal electric shock, or hanging it upside and slitting its throat is neither respectful nor dignified. Granted, I don't care what you eat. But even farmers who raise organic meat and butcher it themselves are still doing something they do not need to.
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  522. I would argue that. I value my cat more than most humans to be honest.
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  523.  @conor.3875  I don't. I just personally don't argue from an ethical vegans perspective because I think arguing from a sense of morality is fallacious.
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  524.  @conor.3875 I have friends who are ethical vegans. I myself am not vegan for eithcal reasons, but I don't disavow them. Argument from emotion is a fallacy.
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  525.  @conor.3875  Morality is a subjective concept. Ethical vegans are those who follow veganism for ethical reasons. I have no issue with that.
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  526.  @conor.3875  No? I personally don't argue from it because I'm a moral relativist. If you have luck from the ethical side of it, go for it. Personally, I don't care whether people choose to be vegan and that shaming them isn't the way to change an opinion.
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  527.  @conor.3875  I don't think something being fallacious inherently makes it an issue to be honest.
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  528.  @conor.3875  No not really. But I have no problem with ethical veganism. I'm not a vegan for ethical reasons, so I don't argue from that stance.
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  529.  @conor.3875  If your only argument for veganism is animal cruelty then yes. That's an issue. But I don't know any vegan who's ONLY argument is animal cruelty. That may be their focus, but it isn,'t their only argument.
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  530.  @conor.3875  If your argument is "eating meat is wrong because animals deserve protection" then to me, in a debate setting, that's a bad argument. Because the person you're debating with may not believe that. In a debate setting, that argument wouldn't work. But it may in other settings.
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  531. I don't know anyone who's pro-abortion. If you're referring to pro-choice, then those two things have nothing to do with the other.
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  532.  @elizabethgrey6040  Thats a broad generalization. I'm a vegan, and lean left on social issues and right on fiscal issues. Pro-abortion is not pro-choice. Pro-abortion would be someone who insists that women who get pregnant must have an abortion. Pro-choice allows the woman to make all the decisions pro-life does, but allows her the Constitutional righr of abortion.
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  533. Eh...not really. Its just not harmful in moderation.
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  534.  @bacon_208  But you can get protein in other ways. Just because its readily available doesn't mean its the best for you. I'm a dietary vegan, but if eating meat is best for you, go for it.
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  535.  @BLUEGENE13  Vegans don't eat animal based products becauae the animals are often treated unfairly and with poor conditions. Because that life is sentient
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  536. Plants are alive, but they are physically incapable of feeling pain. They lack both a brain and a nervous system. They are not sentient.
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  537.  @STONKS_MemeMan  Because I'm a chronic insomniac who loves to learn about other people's perspectives.
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  538.  @STONKS_MemeMan  Quite frankly, neither do I. I eat vegan for health reasons. I do enjoy correcting misinformation
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  539. Well, by that logic, humans are also made of food.
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  540. Not true. The "synthetic" meat you are referring to (which a lot of vegans still don't eat) is simply wheat and soy protein. They aren't any more fillers then are used in regular meat, especially processed meat.
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  541. Or she died of diabetes. I'm a vegan, and its funny because dairy promotes weight loss actually.
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  542. Thats because plants aren't sentient.
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  543.  @yupyee7887  So do bacteria. Plants are not animals and not sentient. So the argument doesn't work...
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  544.  @yupyee7887  Plants don't really mate like animals. Only flowering plants reproduce sexually. Many produce asexually.
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  545.  @yupyee7887  I...don't think you know how plants reproduce to be honest.
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  546. @MOHAMMED WALI Personally, I don't care. But playong devil's advocate, cats and dogs don't have morality either. Why does eating them carry a 15 year prison sentence?
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  547. No they don't, though I can't tell if you are being sarcastic.
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  548. Just because I choose to be healthy?
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  549. Then the argument would be you can get those omega 3's in vegan foods.
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  550. While I don't agree at all that eating meat is murder, you're lowkey strawmaning the argument. Animals eat other animals because of a nutritional need. You eat other animals because it tastes good. Thats the general "moral" side. You don't need meat.
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  551. You can. The question is should you.
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  552.  @pastandsoup  I'm a vegan. I don't do things like that. The majority of us don't. We just want you to think a little deeper.
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  553.  @pastandsoup  No, but that isn't the issue. You have a higher moral compass and no nutritional need for meat.
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  554.  @brolyistheweakest6498  Do I personally think its wrong? Yes. However, I know others have different moral standings than I do, and I don't believe in arguing from morality.
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  555.  @brolyistheweakest6498  I don't argue or debate from morality.
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  556.  @brolyistheweakest6498  What the hell is with the namecalling? Quit assuming things asshole. You always lose when you argue from morality.
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  557. Not wanting to use animals for benefit is not a sign of love?
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  558.  @essencehulsinger8982  i understand that. I'm vegan for health reasons too
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  559. Legumes, nuts, fruits and vegetables are the cheapest food out there, so I'm not sure where you live that is more expensive. That ia certainly not true everywhere. People with allergies are exempt from the moral side of it. Most vegans who are vegan for moral reasons say if you must eat meat to be healthy, do it. But most people don't have that problem.
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  560. Why? We are animals. Animal abuse is a federal crime. They have some status, no?
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  561.  @629Ebaby  ahh I see. That's what you were saying.
    1
  562.  @xTheBOISx  Well to me, humans and animals only differ in cognitive function. I don't think either deserves to be harmed. But I also don't believe life has inherent value so to each their own.
    1
  563. But thats not the issue ethical vegans have
    1
  564.  @aaaaaaaaaa7814  Suffering has nothing to do with IQ. Plants have an IQ of 0, as they lack a brain. Animals with cognition and sentience experience the same emotions as humans, just to a different level.
    1
  565.  @aaaaaaaaaa7814  I don't see how that matters or makes sense.
    1
  566.  @aaaaaaaaaa7814  You are wrong. And why does it matter if they suffer less when they shouldn't have to suffer at all?
    1
  567.  @aaaaaaaaaa7814  I never said that eating meat was murder. The hell did you get that? I don't really care if you eat meat. I'm a vegan for health reasons.
    1
  568. Why is that? That doesn't sound hypocritical to you? I don't care what you eat, I'm just genuinely curious.
    1
  569.  @disguisedpickle1360  And I value my cat the same way. My cat has helped me in those same ways.
    1
  570.  @disguisedpickle1360  Thats fine. You have your dogs and I have my cats
    1
  571. Milking a cow is actually incredibly painful for the animal, but thats mainly because a cow will only produce milk after birth. You're essentially forcing a cow to birth, taking her calf away, and miliking her way more often then a calf would nurse. I know there are some smaller farms that actually still milk the old fasioned way, which isn't painful. But factory farms use machines.
    1
  572. Animals eats other animals because they have a nutritional need for meat. Humans do not. God has not been proven to exist. The argument is you don't need meat. Most people at least.
    1
  573.  @whatzittooyah  I was not trying to prove you wrong. Its just not a valid argument because God may not exist. I was simply giving you the argument vegans use. There's plenty of reasons to go vegan. Its healthier, in general. Its better for the environment. And, to me, its more ethical.
    1
  574.  @brolyistheweakest6498  I choose not to eat meat because its healthier for me. I think its hypocritical to put someone in prison for killing a dog but pigs are fine. If you want to be vegan, go for it. If you don't then don't.
    1
  575.  @brolyistheweakest6498  What question to you want an answer to?
    1
  576.  @brolyistheweakest6498  It's not a claim, it's simply a fact. The majority of the population do not need to eat meat for survival like predatory animals. We have no nutritional need for meat.
    1
  577.  @brolyistheweakest6498  I was rebutting to the original commented as to why the "animals eat other animals" argument is not a good argument. Its not that it can be. It is.
    1
  578.  @brolyistheweakest6498  No. That is an argument. Its just a moral argument. You don't need to eat meat, so why should it be acceptable to slaughter animals for their meat? I'm not personally trying to prove anything. I'm giving you an argument that vegans will from a moral perspective. Why you didn't pick up on this before is beyond me.
    1
  579. Because milk and eggs are terrible for your health. At least for me personally.
    1
  580.  @HateIsPowerWithAPricetag  For me personally, they cause bloating, heart murmurs and terrible diarrhea. But thats just me. My mother is perfectly healthy and loves milk.
    1
  581. Humans are actually classified as frugivores.
    1
  582. Plants don't feel. They lack a nervous system. Ethical vegans have a problem with the hypocrisy of the animal hierarchy and using sentient beings when we don't need to.
    1
  583.  @sujinlee3361  Plants are incapable of feeling. Feeling requires a nervous system and a brain. To compare the chemical reactions of the plants to pain is asinine. Lack of meat is not unhealthy. Meat is the number one reason for heart disease. However, meat in moderation is fine. You do not need supplements to be healthy on a vegan diet. This has been throughly.
    1
  584.  @sujinlee3361  And you are using the term pain and feelings incorrectly as neither of these things are possible without a brain and CNS. Yes, some do emit distress signals. Algae and fungi do too. But to conflate that with a type of pain is absurd. Its not a scream. Its a distress signal caused by chemical reactions. Entirely mechanical.
    1
  585. Depends on where you fall.
    1
  586. Simple answer. Those creatures that feed on crops have natural predators. If you can't find a way to protect your crops, which you could,let the predators do what they do. Nothing should be bred to be slaughtered
    1
  587. Not all
    1
  588.  @mirelvtl8830  Yes. I am one of the ones who believe in reality and understand that a majority of the Bible is fiction. So no, I'm not interested in your facticious book of nonsense.
    1
  589. Awww no they're not.
    1
  590. That may be because actual vegans (non dietary) abstain from all animal products, including clothing.
    1
  591. The less people buy meat, the less meat gets produced. Ethical vegans feel good with themselves that they are not contributing financially to the businesses that, in their eyes, exploit animals.
    1
  592. Not if you do the diet properly.
    1
  593. That also may depend on where you live.
    1
  594. Plants are not sentient. The issue is sentience, not life.
    1
  595. Well, a majority of the population has mental illness so...
    1
  596. Depends on where you live.
    1
  597.  @briankerstiens3550  And most vegans don't care. Sorry that you've only heard from the extremists.
    1
  598. I don't care what you eat but...what? That makes no sense. Humans are absolutely replaceable.
    1
  599.  @claudiafernandes2173  Getting a new dog does not "replace" the dog you lost anymore than losing a human. When your mother goes, you have people that will treat you just ss she did.
    1
  600. Humans are also animals. Perhaps people find it hypocritical that we are on a pedestal when the only difference is cognition.
    1
  601.  @HJ-ju1dn  For me, not personally. But I completely understand why you would. I simply don't think I have inherent value.
    1
  602. But then difference for me is that I don't indirectly finance the deaths of those animals.
    1
  603. Less than 5% of those vegetables go towards human consumption. The vast majority or agriculture goes to livestock feed. Fact.
    1
  604. For someone who gets upset because all of us supposedly tell you what to eat, its quite disturbing that you want to see me dead just because of what I choose to eat.
    1
  605. As a vegan, that is not a friend. Veganism is a personal decision, and its not the right choice for everyone. Anyone who gives you an ultimatum is a manipulator, not a friend.
    1
  606. That isn't true. In fact, your digestive system is ill-equipped for handling meat, which is why large amounts of meat cause digestive issues. And soybeans contain more protein per ounce than beef. Find what suits you.
    1
  607. You are not an obligate omnivore. You don't require meat to be healthy. I'm not sure why your fine with vegetarians if this is your argument. They aren't omnivorous either, as they don't eat meat. Only difference is they eat eggs and dairy.
    1
  608. Well, humans are animals as well. So equating myself with one just makes sense. I just have a higher level of cognition.
    1
  609. That's an unsubstantiated generalization.
    1
  610. Other than B12, which can be gotten in fortified milks, there is nothing that can't be gotten in a vegan diet.
    1
  611. I drink milk all the time as a vegan.
    1
  612. One of the oldest people is currently living off a vegan diet and attributes her 115 years to mostly a plant based diet. Eating meat isn't bad, but it can be. As can eating a vegan diet wrong. Find what works for you.
    1
  613. No they don't. You cannot feel without a nervous system
    1
  614.  @OFFONE  And the answer is no. You cannot feel pain without nerves and a brain.
    1
  615. Not by definition no.
    1
  616. Some people no longer are even born with meat teeth, so that isn't an argument. Just because you can eat something doesn't mean you should. That being said, I don't really care what others eat. Nothing I say will change them. Plants cannot feel pain. They cannot feel emotion. A brain is required for that. The point is you don't need meat. It damages your body and the environment. But on the flip side, you do you.
    1
  617.  @assisdsouza2982  God has never been proven, so I argue he created anything.
    1
  618. That doesn't make us at the top.
    1
  619. Perhaps for some, but that wrecked havoc on my digestive system. So, I'll stick with veganism. But if it works for you, great.
    1
  620.  @ethansolan7465  Thats fine, but meat does terrible things to me. So for me, veganism works best. I won't argue the ethics, but for me, its healthier and its certainly better for the environment. But you do you.
    1
  621. Veganism is not unhealthy in a general sense. Veganism is unhealthy for some people.
    1
  622. Thats a broad generalization.
    1
  623. Yes. Yes we are people.
    1
  624. If you didn't eat the plant grazing animals and you stopped domesticating them, you would not have an issue. They would die out naturally.
    1
  625. Plants can't feel.
    1
  626.  @lovely893  Plants can't feel because they do not have a brain or nervous system, which is fundamentally required to "feel". What you are smelling is chemical reactions caused by cells breaking down. That has nothing to do with feeling.
    1
  627. Thats a pretty untrue and broad generalization.
    1
  628. I'm much healthier as a vegan than I ever was eating meat. But thats just me.
    1
  629. The issue is sentience for ethical vegans.
    1
  630. All extremists are annoying.
    1
  631. I know you're poking fun, but you're strawmaning the argument.
    1
  632. I'm a pro-choice vegan.
    1
  633.  @kylelipp3170  Well yes and no. I do value the lives of sentient beings, but I'm vegan for healthy purposes as oppsed to ethical ones.
    1
  634. From an ethical perspective, because we don't need meat and we should have a higher moral compass.
    1
  635. I like vegans...
    1
  636. Because I choose to abstain from animal products?
    1
  637. Most humans I know aren't very smart...
    1
  638. Most do not. You shouldn't listen to extremists.
    1
  639. That depends on geography. It certainly does not cost more where I live. Maybe its the same for her.
    1
  640. Well...the fish will feel it if its still alive-
    1
  641.  @miranaestephan247  I don't care what people eat. There is a food chain. Yes, you can be an omnivore. You do not have to be however. I'd say you're the one being ridiculous. It was just a joke.
    1
  642.  @miranaestephan247  Any vegan who has told you you need to take supplements to be healthy is a liar. No, you don't. Unless you have a preexisting medical problem or you can't afford fortified foods As for humans beinf valuable. That depends on what your definition of value is. You didn't annoy me. You just seem on edge.
    1
  643.  @miranaestephan247  Fortified milks often have b12. I don't take supplements and I'm vegan. Only B12 cannot be gotten naturally in vegan foods that are necessary. Other nutrients can be gotten in vegan foods or other ways. People should be able to eat what they want.
    1
  644.  @miranaestephan247  There is no difference between D3 and D4, which is the vitamin you make from sunlight. DHA can be made from ALA, which you can get from tofu and soybeans. You shouldn't be judged for living in a country that doesn't have the availability for vegan foods like the States where I live.
    1
  645. What do you think mammals are...?
    1
  646. @Zander Jules No, I don't think it is. I literally know people who believe this.
    1
  647.  @bungeespeaks6081  Nope. I've had arguments with people who literally believe this.
    1
  648. There are many. Look up some vegan athletes.
    1
  649. Most vegans honestly go vegan for health reasons. One could however argue that it is hypocritcal to put say a dog or a cat on a pedastal and not provide the same rights to a cow or chicken. I think the ethical side comes more from pets opposed to farm animals rather than humans and other animals
    1
  650. Depends on where you live.
    1
  651. Not all of us.
    1
  652. The difference is a carnivorous animal needs meat to survive. Humans do not.
    1
  653.  @janieswanson2549  And I've mentioned in multiple other comments that I am in a very slim minority and that this is speaking in general terms. Don't you have anything better to do than continue to be an ignorant moron on the internet?
    1
  654. How so?
    1
  655.  @andrechartier9689  I don't know any vegan who would save an animal over a baby, myself included.
    1
  656. Absolutely!
    1
  657. I don't believe more advanced equates to higher value. Value only means something as a description of worth.
    1
  658. No, we're not at the top of the food chain. Not scientifically anyway. Food chains are measured by trophic levels.
    1
  659.  @celestelalianna7276  No problem
    1
  660. While this may be true, there are vegans who abstain from animal products because of dietary pr environmental reasons. That doesn't mean they aren't vegan.
    1
  661. @Abel Abel Humans are not at the top of the food chain.
    1
  662. @Abel Abel That is not how food chains work. And even by that logic, you still aren't on top. Bears, Hyenas and Crocodiles all eat humans.
    1
  663. But we aren't obligate omnivores and do not have to eat meat.
    1
  664. Tends to be less about life and more about sentience in my experience.
    1
  665. While I don't care what you eat, thats not the argument. Animals eat other animals because they must from a nutritional standpoint. Humans do not need meat to be nutritionally healthy.
    1
  666. You do realize thats not the argument, right?
    1
  667.  @commonsensesammy2082  I'm really sorry you've experienced that. I like to think I'm a mild vegan. I think that if your good in your health, eat whatever makes you feel good
    1
  668. I've been a vegan for over 10 years with 0 supplements and am perfectly healthy. You do not need supplements to be vegan. Especially if you live in a 1st world country.
    1
  669. But we're not the top of the food chain, and to claim so is false. Also, that is not how you determine trophic levels for a food chain.
    1
  670. The majority of crops that are grown from areas that are deforested go to livestock. Not humans. You should do a little research on vegans, because most of us aren't like this. By the way, you're not an obligate omnivore.
    1
  671. While most of what you said is true, they do not feel. They do react to outside stimuli, but all organic matter does. That is not the argument.
    1
  672. So I'm weird because I choose to try to harm other sentient beings as little as possible?
    1
  673. That depends on where you live. Where I live, almond milk is cheaper than cow's milk.
    1
  674. Please link it, because I'm positive you pulled that out of your ass or got it from an unreliable source.
    1
  675. And what makes me sick?
    1
  676. Ehhh thats not true. Any diet, vegan or omnivorous can be unhealthy. Also, thats a flat out lie. Eating a vegan diet no way increases your risk of cancer unless you do not do it properly. Meat, especially red and processed meat, raises your risk of: Cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, cancer and stroke. There is nothing in a meat diet that cannot be gotten in a vegan diet through fortified foods and companion meals. Also, we are not at the top of the food chain. We're in the middle. I don't care what you eat, but get your facts straight.
    1
  677. Thats terrible for the body.
    1
  678.  @911skateordie  Sorry, but you're wrong. I am much healthier on a vegan diet than I ever was eating meat. That being said, I know my diet isn't for everyone.
    1
  679. Being alive is not the argument of ethical vegans. Its being sentient.
    1
  680. The best diet is whatever makes you as person feel the healthiest.
    1
  681. While I know they exist, I don't personally know any vegan who is nutrient deficient. If you do it right, you won't be. I'm much healthier on a vegan diet, but thats just me.
    1
  682.  @ankscrispymarz  I am entirely healthy and do not have nearly to problems I had when I consumed meat. It sounds like you're the sheep buying into the belief that ALL vegans are nutrient deficient.
    1
  683. Plants cannot suffer. They have no sentience.
    1
  684. No they don't. They have no brain.
    1
  685.  @at7860  You cannot feel without a brain or a central nervous system. It can respond to outside stimuli. But to call that feeling is dishonest
    1
  686.  @dutchpatriot17  Pretty sure I didn't mispell cat.
    1
  687.  @dutchpatriot17  Counterargument to what?
    1
  688. You don't have to be though.
    1
  689. People who generalize are ignorant.
    1
  690. Depends on the type of vegan. I know many ethical vegans that get upset from swatting a mosquito.
    1
  691. Yep. Most of my friends are meat-eaters
    1
  692. Some more extreme vegans maybe. The moral side of it comes from hypocrisy, and I as a vegan, don't like that. But thats just me. You get sent to prison for killing a dog. So why not a fish? Thats some reasoning
    1
  693. But that no longer applies here, so I don't get your point.
    1
  694.  @chuckmoore8668  Umm no? Because thats how evoultion works? If people needed to be that way, you would not be able to live healthy long lives without meat. And you can. Meat is a want. Not a need.
    1
  695.  @chuckmoore8668  Predators need meat from a nutritional standpoint. They need meat. You do not. You want it.
    1
  696.  @chuckmoore8668  B12 can be found in fortified milks. There is nothing that cannot be gotten by complimenting.
    1
  697.  @chuckmoore8668  You...do realize that almost every food you get in a store ia fortified, right? By using that language, you're implying that vegan milks are chemically based. And they're not any more than your meat is. You should find a diet thats right for you. Veganism is just for me. I've never been healthier.
    1
  698.  @chuckmoore8668  I have the teeth of a frugivore, because thats what humans technically are. Just because I have the teeth to eat meat doesn't mean I have to.
    1
  699.  @chuckmoore8668  Actually, yes we are scientifically. Frugivores are simply omnivores that prefer fruit. Yes, you do have canines. I am well aware that humand can eat meat. My point is meat is not a necessity. You can eat a balanced diet without meat if you choose. Meat is not essential. We are not obligate omnivores.
    1
  700. And that means what exactly? Vegans, on the moral side, are against using animals becauae they are sentient beings, like humans.
    1
  701.  @OMGUKILLKENNY2  Vegetarians can eat eggs and dairy. They just don't eat flesh.
    1
  702. Because its healthier in general, its better for the environment, and it alligns with my morals? Why is that so hard?
    1
  703. Nope. You strawmanned the argument. Humans are animals. Thats just a fact. But its also a fact that humans, in general do not need meat. They have no nutritional requirement like predatory animals.
    1
  704. That's a bad argument. Meat can be healthy for you, when eaten in moderation. But the reason heart disease is the number one killer is, frankly, because of the amount of meat consumed. You can also be perfectly healthy without meat.
    1
  705. @onion boi Oh, I'm well aware of that. But we also eat way to much meat. And the meat we eat more often tends to be processed to hell and back.
    1
  706. That is simply not true. Farmland and deforestation mainly occurs to make room for livestock.
    1
  707. I have a job and voted for Trump...
    1
  708. Most vegans are not extremists. I am a level headed vegan. We exist.
    1
  709. Humans aren't on top though. That isn't how food chains work scientifically.
    1
  710. No its not. You literally just look for vegan alternatives. They are literally everywhere.
    1
  711. If we stopped domesticating them, they would die out naturally or be killed by natural predators. They were around before us.
    1
  712. You can make a meal out of lentils should you choose.
    1
  713. I'm a long term vegan with no health problems. Sorry you experienced that, but you shouldn't solely put that on the diet.
    1
  714. So, I won't touch the religious aspect because thats your belief. But human teeth are actually mostly flat, not meant for chewing meat. We only have two canines.
    1
  715. I mean...in general, it is healthier. But that's just a generalization.
    1
  716.  @janieswanson2549  I wish I could go back to being vegan, but I'm still healthy not being vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. Its just a generalization we typically see.
    1
  717.  @janieswanson2549  Yes, you can be healthy on a vegan diet, and typically, people tend to be healthier on vegan/vegetarian diets. But, that's certainly not always the case, and you can certainly be an unhealthy vegan. I don't personally push veganism on anyone. I never have and never will. What I will do is correct misinformation, and that includes misinformation from vegans. I don't use animal products needlessly. I use them for necessity and now eat meat because of health problems. However, I also think anyone should be able to eat whatever they want, meat or not. I never was an ethical vegan. I never was vegan for animal rights.
    1
  718. Actually, humans are not the top of the food chain. Thats just science. Food chains are based on trophic levels.
    1
  719.  @snuffeldjuret  We actually are in the middle. Around where pigs are. For one thing, even though we do not encounter them often, humans have natural predators. Secondly to be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves.
    1
  720.  @snuffeldjuret  A human could not survive on a meat based diet alone. Especially that of strictly predatory animals. You would absolutely destroy the digestive system. Again, sorry. But your not at the top of the food chain. Bears, Komodo Dragons, Hyenas, Crocodiles and Tigers all outrank you.
    1
  721. They are, in general.
    1
  722. Ima play devil's advocate. 2 reasons. 1. You have a large frontal cortex. You should have a moral understanding that its wrong to harm other sentient life unnecessarily. 2. Other animals, such as lions, have a nutritional need for meat. Humans do not.
    1
  723. Depends on the type of milk. Almond, soy and rice milks are vegan.
    1
  724. In general, veganism is healthier. But thats not always the case.
    1
  725. Actually, no its not a fact. Humans are not the top of the food chain. Otherwise, there'd be no such thing as "man-eaters". Why don't you try researching what a food chain is and where we are based on our trophic levels?
    1
  726.  @thenerdmaster9381  Being superior in terms of technology is not what defines a food chain. Where a species falls on a trophic leve does. We are not at the top of the food chain. We're in the middle.
    1
  727. And 95% of those vegetables went to livestock.
    1
  728. We do. Its just life is not the issue. Sentience is.
    1
  729. Vegetarians only abstain from eating meat. Vegans abstain from all animal products such as meat, dairy and eggs. They also do not wear or use things made from animal products, such as fur, leather, wool and silk.
    1
  730. Most people do not need any type of meat to be healthy.
    1
  731. No, its you. Its about sentience, not life.
    1
  732.  @hontonitai7838  Some insects don't feel pain, but not all. Many insects have pain receptors as well.
    1
  733. Actually your not. The human digestive system is not meant to consume meat. It just won't harm you if eaten in moderation. Not saying eating meat is bad!
    1
  734. No, but its also not vegan.
    1
  735. If the vegans you are around don't get enough of those nutrients, they suck at planning and shouldn't be vegan. Done right, a vegan diet has been an incredible diet for me. No supplements needed.
    1
  736.  @karissacochet  Which is my whole point. Diets are entirely anecdotal. There are some people who do great on a vegan diet, and some people who do poorly. What you're trying to do is make a claim that ALL vegans are malnourished or need supplements, and that simply isn't true.
    1
  737.  @karissacochet  Fortified soy and almond milk. No, I'm not malnourished nor am I taking supplements.
    1
  738.  @FateSoulzZ  Number one issue though is carbs. Not sugar. You can be healthy on most diets. Just gotta find what works for you.
    1
  739.  @FateSoulzZ  I know. But you have problems with meat as well. Heart disease is the number one killer, and its usually because people overindulge. Not saying meat is inherently bad. I'm personally healthier as a vegan, but my husband is a perfectly healthy meat lover.
    1
  740. Veganism is not a starvation diet if done right. Sure, not eating meat does not mean animals don't suffer. But as a vegan, I do not directly contribute to their suffering. The bear needs to eat the fish for nutritional reasons. Your body does not deteriorate as long as you get all necessary nutrients, regardless of where they come from. I introduced both of my children to veganism. My daughter chose to stay a vegan. My son did not. I love them both equally and respect their choices.
    1
  741.  @hyrunnisa997  Humans are omnivores. But we are not obligate omnivores. My children both started eating vegan around they time they were 9. Eating meat has nothing to do with dying young. I know plenty of young children who were on all sorts of diets that died young. And I ate meat all my young life and developed mental issues. Veganism =/= extremism.
    1
  742.  @mariosh2  In my experience, its actually sentience that vegans have a problem with, not life. Sentience is the ability to think and feel subjectively, which animals have. We find an animal ladder hypocritical. So it isn't so much killing life that vegans are against. Its killing sentient life, especially when theres no need to.
    1
  743.  @mariosh2  Sentience is the ability to think and feel subjectively. That cannot be done without a brain.
    1
  744.  @mariosh2  Not by definition. I believe you are confusing the word sentence with the word cognition. Conciousness is sentience. But if it makes it easier to understand, then yes.
    1
  745. Why not talk to a normal vegan then?
    1
  746. Nah, its just personality. You can get plenty of protein and iron in a vegan diet.
    1
  747. Its not being alive thats the issue morally. Its sentience and the hypocrisy.
    1
  748. Yes. Because there is consent of the breastfeeding mother. She agrees to breastfeed her child.
    1
  749. Yes. Vegans abstain from all animal products. Vegetarians abstain from meat
    1
  750. You can eat whatever you want. But to say that you NEED meat is entirely untrue. Carnivores have a nutritional need for meat. Humans do not.
    1
  751. No, extremists are.
    1
  752. They don't. Not if you're doing a vegan diet right. Barring a medical condition, humans do not have to eat meat.
    1
  753.  @woobeewooo  Yes, you absolutely can. I am vegan and take no supplements at all. I'm sure not everyone can do that, but it absolutely can be done.
    1
  754. No. We are not the top of the food chain. Because food chains are based on what you consume. Not whether or not you have no predator.
    1
  755. I don't care what you eat, but animals wouldn't overpopulate if we stopped domesticating them, which is sometimes what ethical vegans are for.
    1
  756. Some do because veganism is part of their moral system.
    1
  757. Those 2 things have nothing to fo with each other ethically. One is sentient. The other is not.
    1
  758.  @JordanCantFight  Personally, I'm vegan for health reasons. But the unborn can't care and aren't aware. Animals are. That's the difference ethically.
    1
  759. Except all of those things can be vegan. And most vegans make an exception for medication
    1
  760.  @hafsarazzaq929  Meat also has many concerns. If you're healthy, eat whatever you want. But don't pretend like you need to eat meat to be healthy. You don't.
    1
  761. Thats a small minority in my experience.
    1
  762. The minority speaks the loudest
    1
  763. Humans can be omnivores.
    1
  764. Is it because you've never met a normal one who simply chooses not to use animal products?
    1
  765. I would like to see your research to where most vegans go back to eating meat. I found no information on that. Some do go back to meat eating. But many stick with veganism. I'm healthier as a vegan than I ever was when I ate meat, but that's just me.
    1
  766.  @banishedfromthedwarfplanet530  I found plenty of information on failed veganism. I found 0 information backing up the fact that most vegans return to meat eating. Because that is a statement you pulled out of your ass.
    1
  767.  Nickname  I'd love a link, because no where did I get a credible study that nearly everyone returns to meat eating. I found several that do say a fair percentage, and several that say that people who are younger tend to turn back to meat eating and then back to veganism/vegetarianism in their older years, but nothing even close to the numbers they claimed. I don't care what you eat. I choose to be vegan because its healthier for me. But I take issue when people, who are not doctors, blatantly state veganism is unhealthy in an attempt to be deceptive. Thats just a flat out lie.
    1
  768.  @banishedfromthedwarfplanet530  No, I'm quite well aware the Earth is round. I'm also a victim of drunk driving. I'm neither. I'm a full time medical school student that is actually one of those tolerable vegans who think that you should eat what makes you happy and healthy.
    1
  769.  Nickname  I have. And I said more than once that many do. But it is not the amount nor the percentage they tried to claim.
    1
  770.  Nickname  I do agree that many people don't stick with veganism. Complimenting can be time consuming and expensive depending on where you live. So I'm completely fine with people not agreeing with me.
    1
  771.  Nickname  Then you and I got drastically different results. But I still think you should eat what you want.
    1
  772.  Nickname  Nope, I'm not. But believe what you want.
    1
  773.  Nickname  Well I did. So not sure what you want. I'm perfectly healthy being vegan, but I know not everyone is. So eat what makes you happy.
    1
  774.  Nickname  Yeah, so do I. Absolutely no link I read put it at 85%. That was absoutely a statistic the oc pulled out of his ass to make his point seem more credible. And neither of you have given me the link that you read. I'm not saying your wrong. I simply don't have the article you both read.
    1
  775. Depends on what type of vegan. Ethical vegans are against any form of hunting, clothing, eating or companionship.
    1
  776. Some are. The majority are not.
    1
  777. No, not really
    1
  778. Its like meat eaters don't understand thats not the argument.
    1
  779. I'm pro-choice. Why do you ask?
    1
  780. Its not life. Its sentience.
    1
  781. Umm no. Meat can certainly make you feel sick. Meat, even so called "good" meat, can cause horrible digestive problems. Depends on the person.
    1
  782. Well that just makes you uneducated on the subject matter.
    1
  783.  @pa21thebeast  Based on previous comments, it certainly did not sound like a joke. That is why I said you were uneducated, because meat is not necessary for normal brain development. If that was indeed a joke, I am sorry. I am a vegan, though I do not care what people eat. I am a vegan because it is healthier for me.
    1
  784. Yes. But plants aren't sentient and animals are.
    1
  785.  @zizfie3782  don't enjoy it, medical reasons, can't afford it etc. Give it a try at least. If its not for you than its not for you.
    1
  786. Living isn't the issue. Sentience is.
    1
  787. I love and have been love and I would still choose my cats over a human stranger.
    1
  788. Other than euthanasia, when is slaughtering an animal ever humane?
    1
  789.  @Quanic2000  More like never
    1
  790. Because humans, unlike predatory animals, don't need meat to survive amd be healthy. Also, humans being animals is a fact. Not a belief.
    1
  791. But you don't have to be.
    1
  792.  @clarissarigor386  Well no. Not really. But I'm a vegan. Most vegans I know eat meat because of the nutritional intake. Its easier then complimenting.
    1
  793.  @babybegula1228  They eat vegan meat. Which are mixtures of plant based ingredients that mimic meat
    1
  794.  @clarissarigor386  You do realize I was referring to the vegan meat you brought up, right?
    1
  795. Animals eat meat out of necessity. Humans do not. I am vegan because it is healthier for me and overall better for thr environment. But thats just me.
    1
  796. Souls have never been proven to exist, so thats a really piss poor reason.
    1
  797.  @florencehaokip5094  I do respect your views. But I must call you out on a bad reason to defend yourself.
    1
  798. All sentient life.
    1
  799.  @jpdavid4501  In an ethical vegans eyes, its because they cannot feel.
    1
  800. Vegetarian's abstain from the flesh of animals. Vegans abstain from all animal products including meat, dairy, eggs, honey and clothing such as wool, leather and silk.
    1
  801. Most vegans do.
    1
  802. Plants are not in pain because they have no nervous system or brain to feel pain.
    1
  803.  @SKZ10909  A scientific theory is the highest ranking you can get. You do not prove things in science. You prove things in math. Gravity is a theory. Your beliefs do not change facts.
    1
  804. Its literally just a word.
    1
  805. The moral argument for that would be those fish have a nutritional need to eat other fish and do not have a moral compass like humans do.
    1
  806. What you believe doesn't matter. Human beings are animals. Thats a fact.
    1
  807. Thats just scientifically not true. Unless of course you continue to domesticate animals and destroy habitat for livestock and housing development.
    1
  808. Lions have a nutritional need for meat. You do not.
    1
  809.  @mariammohammad3061  You can certainly be healthy eating meat. That doesn't mean you need it. You don't. You just want it. And for me personally, there's nothing wrong with that.
    1
  810. No they don't. You cannot feel pain without nerves or a brainstem.
    1
  811. @Demetria Dark Thats not pain however.
    1
  812. So, playing devil's advocate, my response would be Veganism is about destroying as little sentient life as possible. I don't need to eat meat or dairy to be healthy, and I'd rather not contribute to an industry that I find hypocritical.
    1
  813. I disagree. Most vegans aren't even like this.
    1
  814. Chopping down a tree is not needed to get apples or bananas, but the difference is a cow is sentient. A tree is not.
    1
  815.  @PockASqueeno  Because sentience is the ability to think and feel. Do you cry every time you mow your lawn? Your grass is living. We don't describe something as valuable because its alive. We have laws protecting certain animals because they can feel the way we can.
    1
  816. Factory farms are one of the largest causes for things like climate change. The reason its so rampant it because of high meat consumption. Most crop does not go to humans. It goes to livestock feed.
    1
  817. While we can eat meat scientifically, we are certainly not at the top of the food chain scientifically.
    1
  818. Most vegans don't eat eggs, not because of the eggs themselves, but because of the conditions of the chickens that produce them are. And nothing sentient is harmed in abortion, unless its a late term abortion.
    1
  819. Yes they are. Take a science class.
    1
  820. Vegans or extremists?
    1
  821.  @missyjes7671  I don't personally know any vegan like that. We just call out the hypocrisy, considering humans are animals. Then again, as a vegan, I don't care what anyone eats.
    1
  822. Humans are animals. Thats a fact, not a belief. The difference between us and other animals is a) we have a sense of morality and higher cognitive function and b) we, in general, have no nutritional need for meat.
    1
  823. Thats not actually true. In fact, the oldest currently living person is a vegetarian. That doesn't mean meat is inherently bad. But many Olympic athletes are vegan and do just fine.
    1
  824. No, its because animals are sentient and its hypocritical to place them in a hierarchy. If I killed and ate a dog, I'd be looking at 15 years in prison. Why should a cow be any different? That's the moral side of it from what I gather.
    1
  825.  @John_F_Ketamine  Because its not based on intelligence. Its based on the capability to think and feel, something plants cannot do.
    1
  826. Not all vegans are like that.
    1
  827. Plants cannot feel. They have no brain nor nervous system.
    1
  828.  @moonman5319  You cannot feel without a nervous system or a brain. That is impossible. They respond to outside stimuli, but that is not what anyone would call "feeling". You're being extremely dishonest.
    1
  829.  @moonman5319  I'm not ignoring that it has life. I know it's alive. But the definition of feeling is an intense reaction to emotion or sense. Plants do not do that, because they have no brain or neurons. For the record, I personally don't care what you eat. I am vegan for health reasons. From an ethical vegan perspective, they take issue with harming sentient life and find it hypocritical to place animals on a hierarchy. His work was about showing similarities between plant and animal tissues and that plants react to outside stimuli. There's nothing to disprove. He's right. The issue lies with you equating to that to "feeling". Why not try actually talking to me about my specific stance before making assumptions?
    1
  830. Its not about being alive. Its about being sentient. Being able to think, feel and understand whats going on. You would go to prison for killing a cat or a dog. But a cow or a pig doesn't matter? Thats the moral argument.
    1
  831. But thats not the issue.
    1
  832. No. On the ethical side of things, vegans understand that animals are sentient whereas plants are not.
    1
  833.  @storm0fnova  The recent stuides that you claim happen were not performed by anything other than assisted researchers amd have already been proven to be debunked. You cannot experience anything without a brain. Yes, plants can respond to outside stimuli by use of chemicals. Its how they survive. That's not even remotely compared to the life of an animal, that has sentience, emotions and can feel. They don't invalidate the sentience argument. You just apparently have no idea what sentience means.
    1
  834.  @storm0fnova  Emotions and feelings are controlled with a brain. Biological functions, such as nerve movement, are controlled by a brainstem. For the love of God, take an anatomy class. No, it does not qualify as being able to feel. Again, feelings and emotions are something that can only be experienced through chemicals in a brain. Reaction to stimuli does not equal feelings. Plants are not sentient, and no one in the field of plant science will say they are. You are clearly someone who has never taken an anatomy or a biology class. Veganism does come at a cost. But its about reducing the amount of suffering from a moral side, helping our environment from an environmental side, and living longer and healthier from a health side.
    1
  835. The point I believe she was making is ice cream isn't vegan.
    1
  836. The bottom line is you do not need to eat meat to be healthy and in general, you are healthier without it. That being said, eat what you want.
    1
  837. A vegetarian abstains from eating meat. A vegan abstains from all animal products including dairy, eggs, honey and meat.
    1
  838. A vegan diet is healthy. But so can most other diets. Its about finding what's best for you.
    1
  839.  @klipser66  The vegan diet isn't nearly as restricted as you believe it is. Its anout complimenting food. I do not take supplements, and I live off of food stamps and disability. You don't need supplements on a vegan diet.
    1
  840.  @xxkillemxx4862  Why does my existence offend you?
    1
  841. I'd save my cat over a human stranger.
    1
  842.  @anna.owo.  Yep. I have no relationship with them. I have no attachment to them. I'd try to save them, but I would save the animal I have a connection with over any stranger.
    1
  843. We're not even top of the food chain now.
    1
  844. Humans don't have to eat meat. Thats the moral point.
    1
  845. It certainly can be unhealthy. The rebuttal should be anything can be unhealthy.
    1
  846.  @nomisseyer9809  I'm simply playing devil's advocate. I'm a vegan for health reasons. I don't really care what people eat, just enjoy correcting misinformation.
    1
  847. A human being more important is entirely subjective.
    1
  848.  @PossumBS  It really is. Nature doesn't care if you're human. Humans are animals but we place humans on a pedestal because of cognitive function.
    1
  849. And that aren't sentient and cannot feel. Life isn't what matters. Sentience does.
    1
  850. No, not really. Its a lifestyle choice.
    1
  851. Yeah but...thats not the issue
    1
  852. I love food and am a vegan. Many great dishes don't need use any animal products.
    1
  853.  @チャーリーブラウン-w8l  Yeah actually I do. In fact, being vegan has allowed me to expand my pallet. I however, don't have a problem with people choosing their own diets.
    1
  854.  @チャーリーブラウン-w8l  Oh no. I know I don't matter. But a majority of every person's diet is vegan. Rice and veggies are delicious and are vegan. So I don't see how you equate veganism to eating grass. No. I'm not part of a trend. I'm vegan for health reasons. And I'll always be vegan now.
    1
  855.  @チャーリーブラウン-w8l  Been a vegan for over a decade so.
    1
  856. Personally, you would only know I was vegan of you ate with me. Because most of us aren't like this.
    1
  857. That doesn't make us top of the food chain. It appears you do not know how food chains work.
    1
  858.  @albertb-c488  No, actually we're not. We have a scientific way of determining food chains. Humans are closer to the middle of the food chain. To be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves. We fall below a whole host of animals including tigers, crocodiles, hyenas, bears and Komodo Dragons.
    1
  859. But...we're not at the top. We're in the middle
    1
  860.  @joanneezibe2218  yeah I know
    1
  861. That is a strawman argument
    1
  862. The extremists don't speak for the majority. I am an atheist and a dietary vegan. I take absolutely no issue with what you choose to eat. Its your life.
    1
  863. And nobody would care. Most people who are honest would save an animal they developed a relationship with over a person they knew nothing about.
    1
  864.  @slimeb0y_  "Indirect manslaughter" is not a thing. If someone is, lets say, drowning, you are under no legal obligation to help them. Manslaughter would be if you caused the accident that caused them to drown in the first place.
    1
  865. A combination of the 3.
    1
  866. Vegans abstain from all animal products, including clothing.
    1
  867. Thats not a proven fact as that depends entirely on geographical location. Legumes, grains and fruits are very rarely more expensive than meat and eggs. Just depends on where you live.
    1
  868. Actually, no they're not. We're near the middle.
    1
  869.  @conradmerrywether9438  Thats not what determines your food chain status on a scientific level. They're based on trophic levels. To be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves.
    1
  870.  @conradmerrywether9438  Because I simply corrected you? Sucks for you then.
    1
  871. On the moral aspect, its because predators need to eat other animals to survive. They're carnivores and need a meat based diet. They also lack a sense of right and wrong. Humans don't need meat to be healthy. We eat it because we want to. And to some vegans, thats wrong. Especially since animals are on a hierarchy.
    1
  872. You don't need meat to be healthy unless you have a deficiency that requires it.
    1
  873.  @janieswanson2549  In general, no. You don't need meat to be healthy. However, there are people out there that do, so I personally think ethical vegans should stop the hostility and everyone should find a diet that suits them, whether that be meat, pescatarian, vegetarian or vegan. I was vegan for about 11 years, but developed health problems that required me to eat meat. I know many unhealthy vegans, a fact I have never denied. But I know many more unhealthy meat eaters, some of their health problems a direct result of their meat consumption. I was healthier as a vegan than I was when I ate meat. Now I am healthier as an omnivore, because going vegan is no londer an option for me.
    1
  874.  @janieswanson2549  Yes I was vegan. I abstained from all animal based products with the exception of necessity and practicality. If you want to argue that this is not what veganism is, then please argue with a linguist. It was not needless. I require a phone and computer in order to work and I required medication that had animal products in them. This is still very much allowed in veganism, but again, you only argue in literal definitions. No, I'm not a liar. You just don't seem to understand how language works. But if calling me names makes you feel better, go ahead. It only reflects poorly on you.
    1
  875. Except we're not scientifically...food chains have nothing to do with what your "primary" prey is. It has to do with what you eat.
    1
  876.  @mrthoughts-vj3cl  Food chains are based on what you can consume as a whole, not what is usual. A hyena would eat a human given the option. To be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves. Scientifically, we are near the middle.
    1
  877.  @mrthoughts-vj3cl  Again, that's not what scientifically defines a food chain. We base these are trophic levels. From primary producers to apex predators. Again, To be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves.
    1
  878.  @mrthoughts-vj3cl  Actually, apex predators are animals that only eat meat and has few or no predators of its own. Humans are not carnivores.
    1
  879. Most nail polishes on the market now are vegan. Depends on the company.
    1
  880. Are you being sarcastic? Because we're not at the top of the food chain.
    1
  881.  @godlybutterfly5070  No I'm not. But if you're referring to a food chain, predators in the highest trophic levels, called apex predators. These include things like Killer Whales, Wolves and Big cats.
    1
  882.  @godlybutterfly5070  Umm no. Thats not how trophic levels work.
    1
  883.  @godlybutterfly5070  Explain what?
    1
  884. Health, environment, morals...those are my 3 main reasons. In order of importance.
    1
  885. If you're doing a vegan diet right and you are healthy, you won't he malnourished or missing vitamins. There is nothing, other than B12, that is naturally found in meat that cannot be found in a vegan diet. And B12 can be added to fortified milks. I don't care what you eat, but please. Stop spreading misinformation.
    1
  886. Thats a broad and baseless generalization
    1
  887.  @chanlersimmons7711  Its not. I'm a perfectly healthy vegan.
    1
  888.  @chanlersimmons7711  Thats also a broad generalization that is simply not true. I could show you pictures of Olympic gold medalists that you would never know were vegan. My point is to not make broad statements. You make yourself look unintelligent.
    1
  889.  @chanlersimmons7711  What you eat doesn't determine an accent. If you were to talk to me, you'd never know I was vegan unless I told you.
    1
  890. Vegans abstain from all animal based clothing as well.
    1
  891. There are plenty of vegans out there who are not assholes, who fit into the same category you put vegetarians in.
    1
  892. Better for you in general? Cheaper depending on where you live? Better for the environment? Ethical reasons? These are all the reasons I hear most often.
    1
  893.  @thankyouforbeingafriend9632  I said eating a vegan or vegetarian diet is in general better for your health than a diet with a lot of meat. How does that not make sense to you?
    1
  894. All the vegans I personally know get more than enough protein. Soybeans are a complete protein that contains more protein per ounce than beef without the risks. If a vegan is protein deficient, they're doing something wrong. You should eat what is best for you and what you enjoy.
    1
  895. Most vegans are normal.
    1
  896. I'm not a vegan for ethical reasons, but why aren't animals equal to humans? Animal abuse is a felony...
    1
  897. Its not necessarily wrong to eat meat, but on the ethical side of it, you are killing a sentient animal. Its certainly a better alternative on the environmental side. We're only classified as omnivorous because we still have canine teeth. And while meat won't harm you in moderation, most bodys don't get any benefit from meat they couldn't get elsewhere, other than taste of course. Theres no longer a reason to eat meat except pallet pleasure. If all the vegans you've met are unhealthy, then they aren't eating right. I've never met an unhealthy vegan. Soybeans contain more protein than beef. If they aren't getting proper nutrition, they're doing something wrong. But no one should be shamed for their diet lifestyle.
    1
  898. I'd save my cat over a living human stranger.n
    1
  899. No. Humans and apes have a common ancestor.
    1
  900. Because its been proven they are not sentient, unless of course, you twist the definition of sentience. Sentience is the ability to think and feel subjectively, neither of which is possible without a brain/brainstem.
    1
  901.  @chrisberg7862  Responding to outside stimuli does not equate to sentience. Sentience: the ability to think and feel subjectively. You CANNOT feel without a brain or brainstem. Plants are alive and they do respond to their environment and to stimuli. But they are not sentient.
    1
  902.  @chrisberg7862  That is not sentience.
    1
  903. Lions, Tigers, Bears, Komodo Dragons, Hyenas and Crocodiles are all higher than us on the food chain. That's why their trophic level is man-eater.
    1
  904.  @toxicnarwhal13  Then you simply do not understand how scientific food chains work. If a predatory animal would actively hunt humans, instead of avoiding them, they are considered higher on the food chain.
    1
  905.  @toxicnarwhal13  No, I don't. Because you are objectively wrong. Man eaters are a higer trophic food chain level than we are. They are scientifically higher on the food chain.
    1
  906. Nah. I'm healthier without it. But you do you.
    1
  907.  @bigtimes1  I'll jump in, although I do not have a PhD. Currently working on an MD. Yes, meat is/can be nutritious.
    1
  908. So why not vegans? I can understand certain people, but to generalize them all makes you look like an asshole.
    1
  909. You do not need meat to survive. I don't know any vegan who takes supplements. There is nothing (other than B12) found in meat that cannot be gotten in a vegan diet. Most of your teeth are flat. That being said, you can be healthy/unhealthy on almost every diet.
    1
  910.  @malachisanford2314  You actually tend to be healthier without meat, as meat is the main cause of heart disease. Especially processed meat.
    1
  911. Thats not the argument ethically. Plants aren't sentient.
    1
  912. Ignoring the God comment, since not everyone believes in or follows your God, you can get protein without killing animals. That would be an ethical vegan's argument.
    1
  913. A balanced diet could be obtained without animal products though.
    1
  914.  @kingorangutan3348  All of those things can be found in vegan foods. B12 is harder to find but can be gotten in fortified milks.
    1
  915. You are an animal. All humans are. Facts don't care about your feelings. If you honestly believe animals don't think, you're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
    1
  916. While white meat is certainly better for you than red meat, it certainly can be bad for you. Its not unhealthy to be vegetarian, vegan or a meat eater inherently.
    1
  917.  @azraiel1984  Your opinion doesn't really matter when it comes to facts. Some people may need to eat meat in order to be healthy. But that is not the majority, especially not in more developed countries Protein can be found in non-animal sources.
    1
  918.  @azraiel1984  None of this has to do with relevance. Just because they may not "look right" to you, doesn't mean they aren't. Could just be bias. In general, those that do not eat meat tend to be healthier. This is not always true. Its just a general rule.
    1
  919. Or perhaps just live in an area where its not. Its not more expensive to be vegan where I live, but that may be different for you.
    1
  920. I would argue that animal life is more valuable in circumstances. Don't lie. You would save your pet over a stranger.
    1
  921.  @manishambre9126  Thats a matter of opinion.
    1
  922.  @manishambre9126  No, for everyone. Value of life in subjective, not objective. You deem the human more valuable in all situations (which I, frankly, believe is a lie) and I think it depends on the situation.
    1
  923.  @manishambre9126  I absolutely understand that.
    1
  924. Plants do not feel pain. Thats a flat out lie. Plants have no nervous system. The idea of killing something isn't the issue ethical vegans have. Its the animal hierarchy hypocrisy and the killing of sentient beings.
    1
  925. @grester No actually. No study says that. Its impossible for a plant to feel pain because pain is a neurological response. What you are doing is conflating chemical reactions and signals that plants emmit in situations (such as distress) and ATTRIBUTING that to pain. That is dishonest.
    1
  926. Soybeans are a complete protein and are extremely inexpensive...
    1
  927. What makes you think she has a protein deficiency?
    1
  928.  @FOT2010  That doesn't mean its from lack of protein. You could just be mistaken. You get plenty of protein in a vegan diet if done properly.
    1
  929. We are called animals. Our species is homo sapiens. But we are animals. You call a cat "cat". But its still an animal
    1
  930. Health, morals and the environment are the main reasons people become vegan. You don't need meat. Several vegan foods contain more protein than meat. You eat meat because you like it. I've been vegan over 10 years. I have never been so healthy. But that is just me
    1
  931. Depends on where you live.
    1
  932. There are plenty of vegan inks
    1
  933. Not for everyone.
    1
  934.  @gonzalezaramburu5741  Some are. I promise most of us aren't like this.
    1
  935. Yes, unless it is artificial silk not made with animal products.
    1
  936.  @alanfriesen9837  No problem.
    1
  937.  @dehoneys5945  Most people would. Thats how psychology works. If the dog you raised from puppyhood and a stranger you knew nothing about were drowning, and you could only save one, you'd pick the dog. At least instinctually. Because you have a bond with it.
    1
  938. Being vegan means abstaining from animal based clothing as well. That may be why.
    1
  939.  @iceblaze3043  Ever consider that we both might be wrong? What would you do if it could be proven there was no God? No thanks. I'm happy no longer being a Christian.
    1
  940.  @iceblaze3043  Thats really honestly sad that you need a God to give you purpose.
    1
  941.  @iceblaze3043  Nothing would change. If that God's morals lined up with my own, then I'd just continue to live my life.
    1
  942. Then you would be absolutely objectively wrong. There is plenty of evidence to back up that a vegan diet is healthier. But, you can be unhealthy on a vegan diet just as you can be completely healthy on a diet that includes meat. The only thing you cannot get naturally in a vegan diet is B12.
    1
  943. Why is that? Just because I choose not to use animals?
    1
  944. Well...yes. Because the argument from an ethical perspective has to do with sentience. Not life.
    1
  945. She could have just said no...since you know...we're not...
    1
  946.  @LivingUpright  If you do a vegan diet properly, you shouldn't lack anything.
    1
  947. No actually. We are biologically equipped to eat meat if we should so choose.
    1
  948. While I understand the dislike and the hood comment, we are certainly not the top of the food chain. Not scientifically at least.
    1
  949.  @fMONA94  Lions, bears, crocodiles, komodo dragons and hyenas are all higher on the food chain than we are.
    1
  950. While I could agree that humans are not equal to animals, humans ARE animals. And most people value some level of animal life over humans. Lets be honest, companion animals are an example. You cannot convince me that you would save the life of a human stranger over your pet dog that you loved and raised since puppyhood. You would put your dog above a human. Ethical vegans, in my experience, seem to want that pedestal for all animals. Not just companion animals.
    1
  951.  @ironcross1252  I do not believe you. Not for an instant. You can say that all you want, but human psychology is a complex thing. Whether or not you believe humans are animals doesn't matter. The fact is, we are. That is not a category error. Gotta prove God exists first. And you're still a liar.
    1
  952.  @ironcross1252  Thats fine that you deny facts. And the easiest proof would be for God to simply show himself.
    1
  953.  @ironcross1252  That may be what you believe, but that isn't reality. By the way, humans being animals? Thats not an opinion. Thats a fact.
    1
  954.  @ironcross1252  And the Bible is not reality. Is a holy book. Not a history text. You haven't proven a God even exists, let alone that we're "created" in his image. Your belief is not reality. Its fine that thats your beliefs. But that doesn't change fact. Even if a God were to be proven, we would still be animals by defintion. We're mammals in the animalia classification.
    1
  955. Meat can be healthy. Just as it can be unhealthy. Thats the case for everything.
    1
  956. No, vegans don't believe in using sentient life for their own pleasure and the animal pedestal hypocrisy.
    1
  957. Plants don't have feelings.
    1
  958. So choosing to abstain from animal products is cultish? There are some vegans who act like that, but certainly not the majority.
    1
  959. No, meat can also be a problem. Nitrates, Sodium, Heme iron are all bad for the body. You do not need meat to be healthy.
    1
  960.  @chrischehade5353  You no longer need to eat meat. Find a diet that works for you.
    1
  961. Veganism more specifically is a term used for a diet. But its more broad.
    1
  962. Generalizing a group is also retarded.
    1
  963. Meat isn't "more important" as you can live an often healthier life without it. Its just not harmful in moderation.
    1
  964. Because you've only experienced the slim minority.
    1
  965. If you live in the West, you do not have to supplement vitamins on a vegan diet. You can get all the necessary nutrients you need simply by complementing foods. You can eat a balanced healthy diet without meat. Thats the point.
    1
  966.  @jessejive117  Yes you can. There is nothing that can't be found in a vegan diet that is found in meat, other than B12. B12 can be added to rice, soy and almond milk, and fortified foods do not count as supplements. I'm a vegan that takes absolutely no supplements. I've never heard the organic vs non-organic. Organic just isn't treated in anyway with pesticides or chemicals. My point is that in the West, you can be completely healthy on a vegan diet and in general, plant based diets are healthier.
    1
  967. Which...is an animal product.
    1
  968. I disagree. I'm a vegan and my main purpose is for nutrition and health reasons. But I also understand how it comes across that way.
    1
  969. I'll remeber that the next time a human has its ass mauled by a croc or a bear.
    1
  970.  @sauloa1748  Believe what you will.
    1
  971. Because that's not the argument.
    1
  972. Why do you hate me for what I eat?
    1
  973.  @thetokensaregood1965  I don't. Most vegans don't. I'm sorry if you've delt with extremists.
    1
  974. But the argument is: Humans do not need meat like carnivores. We also have a higher moral compass.
    1
  975. Except that farming doesn't go to feed people. It goes to feed livestock. Less than 5% of food grown is fed to people.
    1
  976. But that isn't the argument.
    1
  977. Fish is a type of meat lol.
    1
  978. You can eat meat. That part is optional though.
    1
  979. Most aren't.
    1
  980. They couldn't have. But now, most people can.
    1
  981. Except humans aren't apex predators. Not from a scientific perspective.
    1
  982. That is a blatant lie. Meat is one of the main causes of cardiovascular disease and eggs have some of the highest cholesterol. They CAN BE healthy in moderation, but a diet of just meat and eggs would absoultely destroy the cardiovascular system.
    1
  983.  @JustLetMeFly94  I know you need cholesterol. But having too much of it is dangerous to your cardiovascular system. They are nutritious, but you can get that nutrition without the negatives. Meat has been linked to cancer, but so has a lot of other things. I'm not saying meat causes cancer, but it can increase your risk of developing certain cancers. And thats fine if a vegan diet isn't for you. You should follow the diet that makes you feel the best. For me, thats veganism.
    1
  984.  @JustLetMeFly94  That's not true, especially if you eat a variety of vegan foods. Certain plants, such as leafy greens, can cause bloating and diarrhea in people with certain pre-existing conditions such as Chrone's disease or IBS, but has virtually no affect on a healthy individual. But just like anything, it'll take time for your body to adjust to a new diet, so you may have temporary side affects. This works both ways.
    1
  985.  @JustLetMeFly94  Vegans don't just eat plants in the traditional sense. We have all kinds of food to eat. Veganism completely changed my life for the better, so that's why I do it.
    1
  986. No, but there are plenty of gold Olympians who are vegan. Carl Lewis being one of them.
    1
  987. Humans are animals. Homo Sapiens to be specific.
    1
  988. No actually. By not buying meat, I don't support any industry that uses other sentient creatures for profit. There is no humane way to keep and slaughter an animal. Then again, I'm not vegan for moral reasons so...
    1
  989.  @sarahnunez318  Apex predators are dependent on diet, not whether or not they have predators. And even if that was the case, we do have predators. We just don't often live around them. To truly be at the top of a food chain, scientifically speaking, one must only consume the flesh of other predators. We based food chains on trophic levels, not predation.
    1
  990.  @janieswanson2549  I am vegan.
    1
  991.  @janieswanson2549  By the way, just to add, I'm not vegan for ethical reasons. I'm a dietary vegan. And the actual definition of veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
    1
  992. No. She's an extremist
    1
  993. Thats...not what defines a food chain.
    1
  994. Playing devil's advocate, but because they must. Humans do not need to eat animals.
    1
  995. Humans are not obligate omnivores though. Thats the issue when it comes to the ethics side of things.
    1
  996.  @abbygriffin9105  I understand that. But many people try to make the argument that you can't get proper nutrition from a strictly vegan diet. Whether or not you are a meat eater doesn't matter to me. Its people who like to say that vegans are unhealthy or that meat is healthy for you that I have an issue with.
    1
  997.  @abbygriffin9105  Well. Meat isn't exactly healthy for you. Its just not harmful in moderation.
    1
  998. But they don't.
    1
  999. They're probably dressed the way they are because vegans abstain from animal based clothing as well.
    1
  1000. Humans are animals. Why is it not okay to cannibalize somone? Strictly based on the logic of "animals are made to be eaten"?
    1
  1001.  @lisaalisa84  God has never been proven to exist. Your argument has no basis.
    1
  1002.  @lisaalisa84  I'm not against people, nor do I care what you eat. No, God does not have evidence. You just have confirmation bias.
    1
  1003.  @lisaalisa84  Yeah. Thats called confirmation bias.
    1
  1004.  @lisaalisa84  And I'm sorry for you that you need a God in order to have purpose.
    1
  1005. Thats not true.
    1
  1006. Humans do have natural predators, including man-eaters such as hyenas, bears and crocodiles. Food chains are based on trophic levels. We are certainly not scientifically at the top of the food chain.
    1
  1007.  @elizabethgorman6467  That doesn't matter. We still have predators that would attack us unprovoked. We are not the top of the food chain.
    1
  1008.  @elizabethgorman6467  Being a main part of their diet has nothing to do with how we, scientifically, develop food chains
    1
  1009. Ethical vegans are against taking sentient life, which plants are not but animals are, and find it hypocritical how if what was done to say, a cow, was done to say, a dog, you'd be crying animals abuse.
    1
  1010. Well, as a dietary vegan, those two subjects have nothing to do with each other.
    1
  1011. A vegetarian abstains from eating meat, but still uses other products like milk, eggs, honey and clothing. A vegan abstains from all animal based products if possible.
    1
  1012.  @Mr.Justanotherdude  I guess it depends on where you live and who you are.
    1
  1013. That would be a strawman argument. One has nothing to do with the other.
    1
  1014. God creating anything has yet to be proven.
    1
  1015.  @passionskayandmiguel  So why do you hate veganism? Is it just some of the people?
    1
  1016. There are different categories of veganism and one strictly is a diet. A dietary vegan. Though most are a mix of all 3 types.
    1
  1017.  @einsofjehohazabraham5957  I could give you a list of animals that, intellectually speaking, are smarter than humans.
    1
  1018.  @einsofjehohazabraham5957  Racoons, Crows, Pigeons, Dolphins, Chimpanzees, Elephants. All of these animals have higher intelligence level, scientifically speaking. That being said, it depends on what your definition of intelligence is.
    1
  1019.  @einsofjehohazabraham5957  Have fun.
    1
  1020.  @huh5007  Nope. Not true. You can be vegan without supplements. B-12 fortified almond and rice milks are available everywhere, and has just as much b12 as an ounce of beef.
    1
  1021. Depends on the shoe.
    1
  1022. It terms of environmentalism, being vegan is ABSOLUTELY better for the environment. And in terms of health? That depends on the person. I am MUCH healthier as a vegan than ai ever was as a meat eater. But thats just me. I know other people that absolutely cannot handle a vegan diet.
    1
  1023. Umm no. Thats an outright lie. Most of the deforestation that occurred went to make room for livestock used in the meat industry. Also, a majority of agriculture goes to animal feed.
    1
  1024. But life is not the argument ethical vegans make.
    1
  1025. Thats not the issue
    1
  1026. While I am personally vegan for health reasons, what's wrong with feeling bad for the slaughtering of animals? Don't you look down on a person who punches or kicks their dog?
    1
  1027. So whats wrong with being vegan, pro-choice, and supportive of the GRSM community?
    1
  1028. I think your projecting if I'm being honest. When you go from one lifestyle to another, sometimes it takes a while to get used to. Being vegan is, in general, healthier for the human body. Now, thats not to say its as easy as a doet that includes meat or that it cannot be unhealthy. But to conclude that these vegans are unhealthy is extremely far fetched. They seem annoyed because their passionate, and being pale doesn't mean you're unhealthy. Some people are naturally fair. As someone who is in medical school, her complexion looks perfectly normal.
    1
  1029. Animals eat animals to survive because they must. You do not need to eat animals. That's the point they were making.
    1
  1030. Apparently, so do you.
    1
  1031. That...is just a made up lie? Some vegans will eventually turn back to meat, especially as they get older. But to simply claim that most get sick and revert is nonsense.
    1
  1032. That depends on where you live though.
    1
  1033.  @jackiemcnair3568  Not where I live.
    1
  1034. Why is that? I'm vegan and pro-choice. They have nothing to do with one another. I assume you find them fascinating because you have some misconceptions on vegans and/or the unborn.
    1
  1035.  @sziszyke  No one supports killing babies. Personally, I'm not vegan for ethical reasons. But I'll play devils advocate. First off, you already do have misconceptions. You think a) its a baby, and b) people who are pro choice support killing it. Neither of these are true. Your misconception about veganism is that its about life. But its not. I am well aware that conception is life, but what they care about is sentient life. Sentience is something that develops as a fetus does, and is not present at the time of most abortions. By the way, abortions are not performed by a fetus being ripped to pieces, unless it is a late term abortion, which is done almost exclusively for medical reasons.
    1
  1036. Not saying they're bad in moderation, but eggs and dairy are some of the worst foods in terms of cholesterol.
    1
  1037.  @davidwilson7979  Not a myth. Take a nutrition class. Cholesterol isn't bad if kept in check.
    1
  1038. Veganism, in general, is healthy. But it can also be unhealthy. Just like any diet.
    1
  1039. Why? I mean, I know some are, but that's a broad generalization.
    1
  1040.  @janieswanson2549  Because I like getting other people's opinions, and despite your ad homonyms on other comments and your lack of understanding of what vegan is, I was a vegan for 10 years.
    1
  1041.  @janieswanson2549  I don't think you know what an ad hominem is. It literally means insulting a person you disagree with. Also no. You and I both know that things like "necessary and practical" are used in defining a vegan. You can argue all you want. You're still wrong.
    1
  1042. There are plenty of vegan foods that contain iron as well. No, most don't have to eat meat. You choose to eat meat.
    1
  1043.  @ANRZ2  I'm sorry but you're absolutely mistaken. Been vegan for almost a decade. Tofu and navy beans are incredibly high in calcium and fortified milks give you all the B12.
    1
  1044.  @ANRZ2  Also...no? Literally being vegan has nothing to do with sexual appeal.
    1
  1045.  @ANRZ2  Because different diets have a different effect on people. Some people have bad reactions to a vegan diet. Some have an amazing response. It depends on the person. That study is something you pulled out of your ass. I'm not expecting everyone to be vegan. I say give it a try for a while, and if you don't like it, fine.
    1
  1046. For some people. And can be really beneficial for others.
    1
  1047.  @ronjimmy2015  If you're not getting adequate protein or nutrients from a vegan diet, you're either doing it wrong or have a pre-existing health condition.
    1
  1048.  @janieswanson2549  But very rarely are they accurate to the majority.
    1
  1049.  @janieswanson2549  No it really doesn't. Not in all cases. Its a silly way to use broad strokes to get a fence painted faster, which is not to say that some stereotypes don't have a slight basis in reality. You wouldn't know what a hypocrite was if it bit you in the ass. Even if I DID concede to your definition (which I don't), I wouldn't be a hypocrite. Because no where did I preach that others go vegan. Also, nice ad hominem when you have absolutely no idea what I look like. Really classy. You're a next level intellectual.
    1
  1050.  @janieswanson2549  You mean the dictionary that changed the word "literally" to mean an expression? Yeah, many people do not take them seriously. My videos were me YEARS ago. So if 10 year old videos are what makes me a hypocrite, then you're quite a fool.
    1
  1051.  @janieswanson2549  Which content are you referring too? Because in the last video where my face was shown, I was vegan. Pardon me for thinking you were referring to my oldest content. Unless of course, you're going to continue to argue the tired line that "because I was using the internet, I wasn't vegan." In which case, no one agrees with you.
    1
  1052.  @janieswanson2549  I am a vegan. The people who coined the term get to decide the definition of that term. Plain and simple. And some of them are, so I apologize for getting confused.
    1
  1053. Plenty of tattoos use vegan ink.
    1
  1054. Or you can choose to be vegan simply because its healthier for a particular individual.
    1
  1055. Food chains are real. But humans aren't on top. That's just science my friend. We're in the middle/upper. But bears, Komodo dragons, hyenas and crocodiles are all above us.
    1
  1056.  @anubisgod23  Except thats not how we measure food chains. They're based on trophic levels. Humans, scientifically, are not at the top. Thats just a fact, regardless of what you eat.
    1
  1057.  @anubisgod23  That...is not how food chains are measured. I would seriously consider taking an ecology class.  To be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves
    1
  1058.  @anubisgod23  Humans do not strictly consume predators. They eat both secondary consumers and plants. There is no arguing out of this. If you want to colloquially say we're at the top, as we have the highest cognitive function, fine. But we are NOT scientifically at the top.
    1
  1059.  @anubisgod23  There are plenty of reasons why people go vegan. There are also plenty of reasons why people don't. I'm vegan because its healthier for me. But someone else may not find that to be the case.
    1
  1060.  @anubisgod23  Actually, it depends on the person. In general, a ppant-based diet is healthier.
    1
  1061.  @anubisgod23  I'm not an expert. I'm only saying what is backed by research and what is best FOR ME.
    1
  1062. Well, I can base my argument for why I'm vegan on facts. But only for me. I can argue in general why its better to be vegan, but it may be different for everyone. Not all of us base it strictly on feelings.
    1
  1063. You don't have to be liberal to be vegan.
    1
  1064. So how about stop buying meat so they stop producing it?
    1
  1065. Humans are surperior to animals in some ways and inferior in others. Humans are animals themselves. Whatever your diet, thats a fact.
    1
  1066. Because "normal" isn't really a concept that exists. You can be "normal" and eat vegan.
    1
  1067. I don't understand how those things correlate. I am not a liberal and I'm vegan.
    1
  1068.  @AirRedbox  Sorry you've experienced extremists
    1
  1069. Why can't I defend both? I may be vegan, but I'm a realist, and don't expect everyone to conform to my diet. I consider myself pretty human...
    1
  1070. I like to think I'm a good vegan.
    1
  1071. Most vegans are informed and easy to talk to. So try not to let the minority speak for all.
    1
  1072. Abortion and veganism have nothing to do with each other.
    1
  1073.  @conor.3875  But its not. They're completely unrelated.
    1
  1074. If she's vegan, probably.
    1
  1075. Uhh dogs being "mans best friend" is entirely subjective. Dogs can turn on their owners, because no animal can be fully domesticated.
    1
  1076. We are not the top of the food chain nor is being on either side of the spectrum a bad thing. Moderation of meat is fine. Some people just prefer to be vegan.
    1
  1077. I agree, as a vegan with everything, except the part about animals being killed humanely. Personally, aside from euthanasia, killing anything is never humane.
    1
  1078. Why not support everyone's choice?
    1
  1079. You can survive fine without meat. But you should be free to have whatever diet is best for you.
    1
  1080. We're not obligate omnivores.
    1
  1081.  @Abaddonian  I'm sorry veganism didn't work for you. I am happy to report to you that I am NOT a vegan who thinks I'm better than you because you eat meat. I think if it makes you healthy and happy, you should pick a diet that suits you best.
    1
  1082.  @Abaddonian  She doesn't represent us. I literally can't stand people like her.
    1
  1083. I'm a nice vegan. We exist~
    1
  1084. No actually. Most vegans have healthy normal skin. If your skin is yellow, you have a problem.
    1
  1085.  @NoName-le5oz  Uhh no. Sorry but I'm not a liar. In fact, no vegan I personally know is unhealthy and there are thousands of athletes and people you can read about who are perfectly healthy on a vegan diet.
    1
  1086.  @NoName-le5oz  No. You don't need meat. Unless you have an underlying medical condition, you eat meat because you want to. Not because you have to.
    1
  1087. I get enough protein by complimenting. Seitan is now more and more popular as a meat substitute. 25 grams of protein.
    1
  1088. No, we do understand its a living thing. But its not sentient and it cannot feel.
    1
  1089. Because they must. Humans eat it because we want to.
    1
  1090.  @thesovereign8625  The some I was referring to had nothing to do with a pet. That had to do with a person choosing to save a random animal over a human. And its because I know how human psychology works. Has nothing to do with precognition nor veganism. I could care less what you choose to eat.
    1
  1091.  @chickenguy4828  I wasn't referring to the video. I was answering a comment.
    1
  1092.  @thesovereign8625  I'm only being honest. And by the way, humans in general make generalizations. Broad strokes get the fence painted faster
    1
  1093.  @Zer0Skateboard  No, because that isn't true. Lack of empathy is a sign of ASPD, not Autism.
    1
  1094.  @craigdorrian7391  Humans are animals. I don't think you're above them. In fact, I think many humans are below them. But thats just me. By the way, an animal DOES have that. They're sentient creatures as well.
    1
  1095.  @NewWave-ds4vn  I don't think you know what a straw man is.
    1
  1096.  @NewWave-ds4vn  And I never intentionally misrespresented an argument. The oc made an assertion that vegans pick animals over humans when not only is that not true is specific instances, humans in general choose those they form bonds with over those they don't, regardless whether animal or human. So again, you don't know what a straw man is.
    1
  1097.  @NewWave-ds4vn  Which is why I set up my comment as if it was a pet, since the oc was so vague. I specified.
    1
  1098.  @NewWave-ds4vn  Actually, yes it did. Because it generalized all animals. That includes companion animals, which is what pets are. If the comment had sad "wild animals", then you would be correct. But it didn't. It was vague. You're wrong. Get over it.
    1
  1099.  @NewWave-ds4vn  I never said he made a specific argument for pets. I made the comment I MADE because he made a statement that people should be hated for choosing an animal over a human. I gave a SPECIFIC instance where is comment didn't work, because I found the vage generalization dishonest. That was not a strawman. My point is that many people who claim they would save a human over an animal in ANY CASE are being dishonest. My original point made a specific case in response to a broad negative generalization. I know exactly what I'm talking about and I stand by my original post. Its unfair to hate someone because they would save an animal over a person.
    1
  1100.  @NewWave-ds4vn  They're argument was people are hated (and should be hated) if a person were to choose to save the life of ANY animal over a human. I gave a specific instance in which they're argument falls apart. Thats not a strawman. They included all animals. They were not specific.
    1
  1101.  @NewWave-ds4vn  I can understand that. I am a vegan for health reasons, and I am not a person who will force this lifestyle on others.
    1
  1102. Some are. We are mostly not like that.
    1
  1103. Humans are animals.
    1
  1104. You do not need to be on a B12 supplement. Just drink milk fortified with B12. I've never been on supplements as a vegan, and I'm healthier than I ever was.
    1
  1105. Thats not true. Just depends on your pallet.
    1
  1106. What proof is there that a God even exists?
    1
  1107.  @elijahsulentic9410  The universe existing is not evidence of a God. You already start off on a faulty argument, because you have yet to prove the world was a creation. Whether or not this was a joke, its an actual argument people use. And its a flimsy one.
    1
  1108.  @elijahsulentic9410  You have not proven creation. I see nature and can explain it through natural processes.
    1
  1109. I hope you realize that you're not at the top of the food chain.
    1
  1110.  @somethingsomewhere66  No, humanity is not. Humans are near the middle.
    1
  1111.  @somethingsomewhere66  There's no one speices at the top of the food chain, but some examples would be Bears, Hyenas, Komodo Dragons Crocodiles and Lions. To be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves.
    1
  1112.  @somethingsomewhere66  Thats not what makes something at the top of a food chain. And predatory wise, without technology, you'd be fucked. Humans are omnivores. We consume both producers (like plants) and non predatory consumers (like cows). We do not consume strictly predators. You would not be able to survive for long on that diet. You are not the top of the food chain. Just accept that fact and move on.
    1
  1113. Most vegans aren't like that
    1
  1114. And? Vegans also understand thag the vast majority of humans have no nutritional need for meat.
    1
  1115. Aside from euthanasia, is there any such thing as humane killing?
    1
  1116.  @STONKS_MemeMan  I'm doing well. Having a good holiday?
    1
  1117. Thats not true for everyone. Meat in moderation is fine. But generally, you're healthier without it. Find a diet that works for you. Meat, even "good meat", was horrible for me.
    1
  1118. Eh, there's extreme on both sides. I get tired of people telling me I have to take supplements or I must be severely unhealthy because I'm vegan and perpetuating the lie that you can't be healthy on a vegan diet.
    1
  1119. I'm gonna play devil's advocate to give you perspective from an ethical vegan. Predators, like cats, nutritionally need meat for their survival. Humans do not. So because of this, humans should have the higher moral compass to not needlessly slaughter animals.
    1
  1120.  @janieswanson2549  I still am vegan. I'm just not an ethical vegan.
    1
  1121.  @janieswanson2549  You're ad hominems based on videos from 5 years ago really say a lot about you and your intelligence level. And yes, I am vegan. I do not use animal products except when necessary for practical reasons. Exactly like the term says.
    1
  1122. Plants aren't sentient. They cannot "suffer" in the context of that word, because there is no nervous system or brain to register "suffering".
    1
  1123. No. You don't need supplements if you're doing the vegan diet correctly.
    1
  1124.  @alb4150  But there are many commenters who do not.
    1
  1125.  @alb4150  No, its just facts. Humans are animals. Thats not up for debate.
    1
  1126.  @alb4150  But its not. Because you don't need to eat animals.
    1
  1127.  @alb4150  No you don't. You want to. And thats okay.
    1
  1128. Sentient life. And Planned Parenthood helps a lot of people. It does more than just abortions.
    1
  1129. There are plenty of inks that are vegan.
    1
  1130. I'm a dietary vegan. I abstain from animal products primarily for health reasons.
    1
  1131. The argument isn't that they aren't alive. Its that they aren't sentient. No reputable study says they can feel pain, becauae you cannot feel without a nervous system or brain. They equate reactions to outside stimuli as feelings, and thats false equivalence.
    1
  1132.  @ayaanayubi1117  You can literally google the diets of vegan athletes. Many of them don't take supplements.
    1
  1133. Nothing eats us? Bears, Crocodiles, Hyenas, Komodo Dragons and Wolves are all classified as man-eaters. You clearly don't know how food chains work, because we are certainly not the top. Food chains are measured by trophic levels, and in the wild, we would have natural predators. Humans are around the middle of our trophic level food chain.
    1
  1134. @Abel Abel That doesn't mean we're at the top.
    1
  1135. @Abel Abel Food chains are based on trophic levels. There are animals that eat humans. Bears, Komodo dragons, Hyenas, Crocodiles. Those are all man-eating predators. My point is that people don't know how a food chain is measured scientifically if you claim you are at the top. Because you're not.
    1
  1136. That depends entirely on geography.
    1
  1137.  @Hsjskakakkaja  I don't know any vegan who doesn't know they aren't eating living things with plants. But that isn't the argument. You two seem ignorant...
    1
  1138. So because I want to be healthy, that disgusts you?
    1
  1139. Abortion is not murder nor is it harming a sentient thing.
    1
  1140. Except they're not.
    1
  1141.  @SilentDaydreams  No, we're not. We're in the middle with pigs.
    1
  1142. Not if your doing veganism correctly. You shouldn't have any nutritional problems.
    1
  1143. No they don't. You cannot feel pain or have emotions with a nervous system and a brain stem. They are, however, alive, and react to outside stimuli in certain ways.
    1
  1144. I don't believe you when you say you followed nutritional guidelines, but lets say you did. B12 can be easily fortified in soy, rice and almond milks. You screwed up, not your diet. That being said, everyone is different. Meat and dairy destroyed my digestive system. But not all meat-eaters are like me. I know 0 crippled vegans (besides myself). Find your own diet.
    1
  1145. There is no inherent sanctity in human life vs animal life. Humans are animals. It just depends on your own beliefs, but that is not objective.
    1
  1146.  @joshuasussman4020  A human being also has the power to cause mass destruction and catastrophic damage and violence to both human and animal alike. That argument runs both ways. And that doesn't mean human life is sanctimonious. That is simply your view.
    1
  1147. Vegetarians abstain only from meat. Vegans abstain from all animal products, including animal milk, eggs, honey and clothing made of wool, silk or leather.
    1
  1148.  @distilledwater8871  Because they are different. As to behind the names, you'll have to look that one up.
    1
  1149. Dear person who flunked biology, Plants cannot feel pain as they have no brain nor nervous systems.
    1
  1150. Thats not the issue. The issue, morally, is the hierarchy we give animals and the fact that animals are sentient creatures capable of feeling emotions and pain.
    1
  1151. The rarity of finding a person who depends on meat for health is astronomically low. And, as a vegan, I know exactly what their answer would have been. There is no such thing as "ethical meat sources".
    1
  1152. Being vegan and pro-choice have nothing to do with each other. I'm pro-choice and vegan (although not an ethical vegan)
    1
  1153. Because they must. Humans choose to eat meat evn though they don't need to.
    1
  1154.  @isabellaevans8351  Nothing wrong with that! Not to me at least! Keep doing you.
    1
  1155. The moral aspect doesn't come from life. It comes from sentience.
    1
  1156. I was with you up until you claimed that children need mear to grow properly. That is just a lie. However, you should take care of yourself and eat in moderation, whatever it is. And no one should be shamed for what they eat.
    1
  1157. It can be. Just like a vegan diet. Find what works for you
    1
  1158.  @larssrensen4353  That is absolute nonsense. Organic food exists. Please cite these studies.
    1
  1159. Depends on where you live. Where I live, vegan foods such as fruits, vegetables and lentils are cheaper than meat. Also, if vegan foods were in higher demand, the orice would drop.
    1
  1160. Vegans do NOT need supplements. No vegan I know, myself included, take supplements. If you are forced to take supplements, you are not doing the vegan diet correctly or the vegan diet is not right for you. Quit spreading the lie that ALL vegans MUST take supplements. There is nothing (other than B12) found in meat that cannot be gotten in vegan foods.
    1
  1161.  @CosmicGamingPlays  You can get B12 in fortified almond, soy, and rice milks. No supplements necessary. You saying it NEEDS supplementation is a lie. Also, no it doesn't take a lot of work to maintain a protein level. Lentils are higher in protein than beef. Again, you don't need supplemental protein. You know nothing about a vegan diet.
    1
  1162.  @CosmicGamingPlays  For the most part, yes you can. They aren't difficult. People just don't want to give up things they like. Vegans in general, are healthier. But there are no hard and fast rules. Also, lions have a nutritional need for meat. Humans do not. You also have higher cognitive function than a lion. Also no. Humans are not the top of the food chain. On the ethics point, it has to do more with hypocrisy.
    1
  1163.  @CosmicGamingPlays  Not true. Being vegan is super easy, especially in more developed nations. I know more omnivorous people that plan diets than vegans. Most food does not contain animal products. Honey, meat, eggs and animal dairy products are the only foods you avoid as a vegan. I understand that vegans are not automatically healthier. Just in gerenal, they are. Again, no. You don't need fortification, nor do humans have a nutritional need for meat. You eat it because you want to, and I can list serveral health reasons to not eat meat dairy and eggs. Most people actually don't digest meat properly. The intestines are no longer designed for that. Thats why meat raises the risk of colorectal and intestinal cancer. I'm of the opinion that you should find a diet right for you. But do not spread misinformation.
    1
  1164.  @CosmicGamingPlays  No. I disagree. Broccoli is an excellent vegan sorce of calcium and chickpeas contain more iron that most red meat. So the fact that you claim it is difficult to find foods high in the minerals that are vegan is just straight up untrue. Actually, all meat increases your risk of certain cancers, high blood pressure and cardiovascular problems, because meat contains a lot of the bad things that vegan foods have in smaller quantities. Vegans in general are healthier. They aren't as prone to heart disease (the number 1 cause of death in America) nor other serious problems like cancer, diabetes or blood issues. All of that said, you can be perfectly healthy as either or. Find a diet that suits you and your body.
    1
  1165. No, vegans are against wild game as well. One, its risky health wise. And two, its against most vegans morals.
    1
  1166.  @Rakshupakshu23  Depending on how you define intelligence, there are animals who are FAR more intelligent than humans. We simply lucked out on the fusion of chromosome 2, which is why we have such large pre frontal cortexes Animals understand emotion justas humans do. .
    1
  1167. @Dwayne James I am well aware of what they were saying. My point was that simplifying it down like that is a slippery slope, because if "animals just eat other animals" then why can't humans eat other humans? Why are certain species not allowed to be killed for food in the western world?
    1
  1168.  @thatoneguy9666  That is absolutely not true.
    1
  1169.  @thatoneguy9666  That is called a prion disease. The only way to get that is to consume, usually the brain, of an infected human or animal. There have been many documented cases of cannibalism.
    1
  1170. They are self aware and are not stunned painlessly. You can damage the meat that way. And actually, yes you are. Animals are intelligent. Tell me something. Why is it a federal crime to shoot a dog? Why is one considered agriculture while another is considered abuse?
    1
  1171. Thats true of extremists. Not in general.
    1
  1172. Thats...just fact. We aren't at the top of the food chain.
    1
  1173.  @OMGUKILLKENNY2  While I can understand your argument, the reason that habitat is limited is because of farming. If humans stopped domesticating animals, you would have no reason for hunting. You know, other than fun. But we won't so...
    1
  1174. The issue isn't life. Its sentience
    1
  1175.  @LeuBlue  No they don't. You cannot have sentience if you have no brain.
    1
  1176.  @LeuBlue  They can't feel anything. They lack a brain and nervous system. But they are alive, and react to the outside stimuli around them.
    1
  1177. The animal is sentient. The fetus is not.
    1
  1178. And where do 95% of those crops go? Animal/Livestock feed
    1
  1179. Thats not the problem though...
    1
  1180. I've been vegan for almost a decade and can personally say that a vegan diet is amazing. But, for me. If you struggled to find vitamins, you did your diet wrong. But thats you. Veganism as a diet isn't for everyone.
    1
  1181. Most of us would honestly not care.
    1
  1182.  @merrickjacobson7313  And I'd respectfully decline.
    1
  1183.  @janieswanson2549  Except I am. But go off I suppose. You always do.
    1
  1184.  @janieswanson2549  And I figured you would have learned by now, dumbass, that this is not the established definition that vegans abide by. By this loose definition NO ONE is vegan. But you're blond, so I shouldn't expect much from your intelligence level.
    1
  1185. No we're not. Science really doesn't care about your opinion. Having no animal that eats us in society doesn't make us the top of the food chain. Food chains are based on trophic levels. We needed meat back then. We don't now.
    1
  1186. For me, its much easier to be healthy as a vegan. I think it depends on your lifestyle and your locality.
    1
  1187. Can someone tell meat eaters that thats not the argument or point?
    1
  1188.  @lilithastraeas4739  Thats...not the point. The argument lies in sentience. Not life.
    1
  1189.  @lilithastraeas4739  There...is no disagreement. You're just wrong. Not about what you eat. That should be what makes you happy. But the argument basis is wrong. Thats all.
    1
  1190.  @lilithastraeas4739  No I understand. You didn't offend me. I was correcting your premise
    1
  1191. Of course there are things we cannot digest. But that doesn't mean you need to eat meat. Do not bring in God. A God has never been proven to exist. Eat healthy, regardless of what it is. But you'll sometimes have to defend your reasoning.
    1
  1192. Thats not the argument.
    1
  1193.  @rodrigobento4570  I don't honestly think thats a joke. I know people who REALLY believe this.
    1
  1194.  @janieswanson2549  You don't need meat. Everything you need nutritionally can be gotten in plant based foods or can be fortified in vegan foods.
    1
  1195.  @janieswanson2549  Then you still don't need animals to technically survive, as you do not need electricity, phones etc to survive. However, anyone would consider it unreasonable to abstain from these things, especially in places where it is necessary. Veganism is about harming as little as possible.
    1
  1196.  @janieswanson2549  I'm not a vegan for ethical reasons, so if things I need based on the way I live my life have animal products in them, then I'm okay with that. I'm aware of that. Also, I don't have a narrative. And sorry, but I am vegan based on the accepted definition of the community. So keep name calling. Show's your character really well.
    1
  1197.  @adamender9092  No vegan I know feeds their pets (if they own one) a vegan diet. That would be terrible for the animal.
    1
  1198.  @janieswanson2549  If thats the definition you want to use, then no one is vegan. But, since the word is flexible, I'll continue using the accepted definition.  a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose. So yes. I am vegan.
    1
  1199.  @janieswanson2549  Yeah, actually I am. Look up the definition of veganism and you will find both broad and narrow definitions. If we ONLY used your definition, then veganism would NOT exist, as its impossible to survive for any length of time in a 1st world country without breaking that definition. If you really believe words only have 1 established definition, I can't help you. Veganism is the "doctrine". One who practices this doctrine is a vegan. Get over your semantics. You probably are intelligent. You're just very arrogant. You're not contradicting anything. Your simply giving a very broad and vague definition. And yes, I am still vegan. And I feel great. Eat and enjoy what you like.
    1
  1200.  @ozarkstate  If everyone suddenly stopped buying meat over night, yeah I could see it.
    1
  1201.  @ozarkstate  And thats why I'm not forcing anyone to go Vegan
    1
  1202. B12- Can be fortified in almond, soy and rice milks. Also found in Nori, a type of seaweed used in sushi. Creatine- Not essential in a standard diet. Produced naturally by the liver. Carnosine: Non-essential. Formed naturally in the body. Vitamin D3- No difference medically between this and the vitamin D obtained from sunlight. DHA: Can be made from ALA, found in Chia seeds, flaxseeds and walnuts. While typically lower than a meat-eater, can still fuction adequately. Heme-iron: Not an issue. Plant based irons are just harder to absorb. Again, non-essential as non heme-iron can work. Taurine: Non-essential. Produced by the body. You don't even read your own sites do you?
    1
  1203.  @johnfurey3593  B12 can be fortified in milks. If you're trying to tell me that eating fortified foods counts as "supplements" then everyone is supplementing. Of course its different. However, the differences are minute when it comes to how the body uses it. Heme-iron is simply easier to absorb and its not affected by anti-nutrients. But that is not to say non-heme iron cannot be used. Actually, no. Its not different. The vitamin D you get in meat has the exact same effect as sunlight. I know it is. Because I found the article you pulled this from. And you didn't even finish reading it. You simply skipped over the parts you didn't agree with. I never said B12 was found naturally in plants. Its only found in small quantities in some types of seaweed. Most vegans get their B12 either through enriched foods (like milks) or through supplements. You stop spreading misinformation.
    1
  1204.  @johnfurey3593  Yes, I'm well aware what "fortified" means. And most foods, including your meat and dairy, are ALSO enriched or foritifed. The "science" is you can be perfectly healthy without animal products in your diet, unless of course, you have an underlying condition.
    1
  1205.  @johnfurey3593  ALA, while an inefficient method, can be converted into DHA by the body. In the body, DHA can also be made from the omega-3 fatty acid ALA, which is found in high amounts in flaxseeds, chia seeds and walnuts. You are full of crap.
    1
  1206.  @johnfurey3593  B12 is mainly found in meat, dairy, fish and eggs. Nori seaweed and tempeh, which is a fermented soy product, contain small amounts of bioactive vitamin B12. So no. The only one spreading misinformation is you.
    1
  1207.  @johnfurey3593  Except you have, as all of those nutrients are either non-essential, can be found in vegan foods, or can be gotten without meat. I totally agree with you about the woman being irritating. That doesn't mean you need meat and dairy to be healthy.
    1
  1208.  @johnfurey3593  No. No its not a fact. Because both Nori and Tempeh have small amounts of B12. By the way, there's no reason to "cook" tempeh or nori. No it wasn't a direct quote because right under it was this "In the body, DHA can also be made from the omega-3 fatty acid ALA, which is found in high amounts in flaxseeds, chia seeds and walnuts. However, the conversion of ALA to DHA is inefficient. For this reason, vegetarians and vegans are often lower in DHA than meat eaters.
    1
  1209. We are not biological omnivorous. We have the unique advantage of being able to choose. We would not have to worry about population control if we stopped eating meat and stopped domesticating animals.
    1
  1210.  @joeyvega8991  Actually that's not entirely accurate. Most of our teeth are flat, and our jaws are not capable of ripping through larger and tough pieces of meat. That being said, I don't care what you eat. You can choose to be herbivorous or omnivorous. I choose to be a vegan because its healthier, better for the environment, and consistent with my morals.
    1
  1211.  @joeyvega8991  I'm not arguing we are naturally omnivorous. We just don't have to be. Sorry if that was misunderstood.
    1
  1212. We're actually frugavores, which is a fruit leaning class of omnivores.
    1
  1213. I don't know any vegan who doesn't know plants are living things...thats not the argument.
    1
  1214.  @pringlesthegoose1702  I don't honestly believe that. Sorry.
    1
  1215.  @pringlesthegoose1702  No, because I legitimately know people who are serious about comments like that.
    1
  1216. Humans are technically frugivores.
    1
  1217. I think the better word would be extremist.
    1
  1218. Psychology disagrees with you.
    1
  1219. Why?
    1
  1220. You could never be healthy on a strictly carnivorous diet. You'd destroy your cardiovascular and digestive system. No one should be guilted over what they eat, and all vegans I know aren't like this. They're vegan for themselves and encourage people to try, but accept that not all people want to live that way. Plants being alive doesn't matter. Thats not why, morally, vegans don't eat meat.
    1
  1221. In general, a plant based diet is healthier than one that includes meat. But this isn't true for everyone.
    1
  1222. If you aren't getting enough protein as vegan, you're doing something wrong. Soybeans (a complete protein) has MORE protein per ounce than beef...
    1
  1223. No, no one forgets that. That's just not the argument.
    1
  1224.  @junkynote4799  Because its not the moral argument that people use when talking about veganism. No one argues plants are not living. They are misrepresenting the moral argument, which is why I corrected them. I am a vegan. I know what our moral argument is.
    1
  1225. If you do the vegan diet right, there's no reason you should be lacking anything. I don't care what you eat, but please don't spread misinformation...
    1
  1226.  @conradmerrywether9438  No, I mean by eating all necessary nutrients. You don't need meat to be healthy. The only vitamin not naturally found in vegan alternatives is B12, which can be added to fortified milks. You can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet just as you can on am omnivorous diet.
    1
  1227.  @conradmerrywether9438  Amino acids are what make up proteins. Plenty of vegan foods are high in protein. Are they more readily available in meat? Sure! Are the hard to get in a vegan diet? No. Soybeans contain more protein per ounce than beef. Taurine, like B12, can be foritifed in vegan foods.
    1
  1228. Thats a gross generalization
    1
  1229. These are a minority of vegans. Just try an remember that.
    1
  1230. Extremists is the word you're looking for. Being vegan doesn't put you out of touch with reality. Being an extremist does.
    1
  1231. A plant does not feel. It does not hurt. It lacks the capability to do that. Its not like vegans are saying "eat all the trees".
    1
  1232.  @Haia200  That is just straight up not true.
    1
  1233. Because eating any type of animal product can be unhealthy and increase risks for problems later in life. I would rather have a lower risk of having a heart attack in the future. If I can get the benefits without the risks, why wouldn't I?
    1
  1234. Not true except for B12.
    1
  1235. That's just your personal opinion. Humans are animals who got lucky on the fusion of chromome 2. So what's the difference? For the record, I'm not an ethical vegan and don't care what you eat.
    1
  1236.  @starryyynightzzz4691  Humans aren't at the top of the food chain. We are the way we are because we got lucky. Nothing more.
    1
  1237.  @dutchpatriot17  You do realize that most crops go to animal feed, right?
    1
  1238. Humans are animals.
    1
  1239.  @Megatron-xs2qe  But you don't need to eat animals to survive unless you are in the same survival situation. So an ethical vegans question to you would be "why is it wrong to eat a human or a companion animal, but perfectly okay to eat a "non-companion meat" animal?"
    1
  1240. Yep. Loreen Dinwiddie died at 110.
    1
  1241. I don't care what you eat, but I'm going to play devil's advocate for an ethical vegan. Other animals nutritionally need meat to function. Humans do not. Humans also shouldn't be hypocritical when it comes to the animal hierarchy.
    1
  1242. Science.
    1
  1243.  @petros1317  No it doesn't. They respond to outside stimiuli when cells are damage as all organic matter does. That is not pain
    1
  1244.  Jordan Smart  They don't feel pain. They can't feel anything. They have no brain or nervous system.
    1
  1245. The argument, from an ethical perspective, isn't about being alive. Its about being sentient. Plants cannot feel or comprehend what happens when you pick them. Animale understand what's going to happen to them. Yes, plants react to outside stimuli. All living things do. That is no where comparable to the actual neurological capabilities of an animal. There is no such thing as being humanely killed when its against ones will.
    1
  1246. You can buy faux leather.
    1
  1247. Probably, because those two things have nothing in common. I'm a pro-choice vegan.
    1
  1248. In general, it can be. Its the leading cause of heart disease. Its just not the meat itself. Its how much people eat.
    1
  1249. But whats the difference? Why is one okay to eat and the other isn't?
    1
  1250. That is a statement you have yet to prove.
    1
  1251. Ahh but most of that grain goes to feed livestock. Not humans. So if you're making that argument, you would drastically cut down on those deaths by stopping livestock domestication. Don't care what you eat by the way. Just playing devil's advocate.
    1
  1252. I can't speak for these specific vegans, but I'm vegan and pro-choice.
    1
  1253.  @thomasray  Because they have nothing to do with each other?
    1
  1254.  @thomasray  No its not. Especially not if your not an ethical vegan.
    1
  1255.  @thomasray  Abortion has to do with legal rights and a non-sentient fetus. Veganism, for some, has to do with not harming sentient life as much as possible. These two are not related.
    1
  1256.  @thomasray  Sentience: The ability to think and feel subjectively. Vegans don't have an issue with taking life. Plants are alive. What some find issue with is taking sentient life, and the hypocrisy of the "animal hierarchy".
    1
  1257. Well...humans are animals. So essentially, the only thing separating us is cognitive thoughtm
    1
  1258. No we aren't.
    1
  1259. No one has to be vegan, but to answer your question, its because animals that are not herbivores have a nutritional need for meat whereas humans do not.
    1
  1260.  @iLeona296  You can get plenty of protein in vegan foods.
    1
  1261. Humans are not obligate omnivores. You do not need meat to be healthy unless you live in a society where you cannot get these nutirents from plants. Everything you listed can be found in vegan foods or in other ways, with the exception of B-12. These things are just easier to find and for your body to use in meat. We are not the top of the food chain. That's not how trophic levels function. I am vegan and take 0 supplements. You're just frankly uneducated.
    1
  1262. Please don't bring a being into it that has never been proven to exist.
    1
  1263. Why do people always strawman the abortion argument?
    1
  1264. But there are vegan inks. And knowing how extreme she is, she probably got vegan ink.
    1
  1265. We don't have to be however. We just have both types of teeth.
    1
  1266. Ummm yes we are.
    1
  1267.  @loudy12  What...do you think mammals are? They're a classification of animals...
    1
  1268.  @loudy12  Animal: a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli. I'm sorry, but we are scientifically animals.
    1
  1269.  @loudy12  ...Organic matter includes meat. You realize this right? Organic matter is anything with carbon in it.
    1
  1270.  @loudy12  And you believe everything in the Bible?
    1
  1271.  @loudy12  No. I'm an atheist
    1
  1272.  @loudy12  Nah I'm good thanks.
    1
  1273. The only nutrient you cannot get on a vegan based diet is B12. You can get those in fortified milks. I don't care what you eat, but stop the lies. Some vegans do take supplements and so do meat eaters. No vegan I know, including myself, takes supplements.
    1
  1274. Veganism is a diet. Technically its also a lifestyle. I don't get how not wanting to eat animal products is crazy.
    1
  1275.  @terrortorn  Most vegans are content with just living life by their standards. I'm sorry if you delt with the extremists. Byr the extremists are not the majority and should not be treated as such.
    1
  1276.  @terrortorn  Thats not true in the slightest. The only face you choose to see are the extremists. I think the hypocrisy of the animal pedestal is hypocritical, but I don't think its outright wrong. You have different morals than I do. Arguing from that is illogical.
    1
  1277.  @terrortorn  How is my choice not to eat meat a fallacy? How is the clear hypocrisy a fallacy? You're so far up your own ass you can't comprehend why people would choose this lifestyle.
    1
  1278. Thats not how one scientifically determines a food chain. We are not at the top. We are near the middle.
    1
  1279. You don't have to supplement if you do it right. You do have to compliment.
    1
  1280. Humans are not carnivores, so that word means nothing here.
    1
  1281. You could certainly support the entire planet on vegan/vegetarian food. But to each their own.
    1
  1282. Yes there is. Being vegan lowers your risk of heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, complications related to obesity and most cancers. That being said, if you eat healthy and in moderation, you won't have a high risk for those things anyway. I don't think I'm better than you, but making false claims makes you look weak.
    1
  1283. Animals need to eat other animals. They have a nutritional need. You, as a human, do not. Just playing devil's advocate.
    1
  1284.  @LeuBlue  Not unless you live in a place where you cannot get access to certain foods or supplements. You certainly don't need meat if you live in the US.
    1
  1285.  @LeuBlue  nope. I'm an atheist.
    1
  1286.  @LeuBlue  Then perhaps there's a point. But we aren't talking about 3rd world. We're talking about first world. I personally don't care what people eat. I just like to correct misinformation.
    1
  1287. Being vegan and being pro-choice have nothing to do with one another.
    1
  1288. No, there aren't. There is nothing that you need that cannot be gotten in a vegan diet, either naturally or through fortification.
    1
  1289. No, it's not false. B12 can be added to fortified milks. Unless you're counting those as supplements, in which case almost everyone takes supplements. I have never been healthier as a vegan and take 0 supplements.
    1
  1290. While I don't care what you eat, that viewpoint just seems hypocritical to me. Why are some animals food while others aren't? Why are some special?
    1
  1291. I'm on disabilty and food stamps, and make less than a 9-5 in a month, and I'm vegan. You don't need supplements if you compliment properly. It depends more on location as opposed to income.
    1
  1292. No? Thats a subjective opinion. Value isn't prescriptive. Its descriptive.
    1
  1293. But most animals that eat animals are carnivores and are required to eat meat.
    1
  1294.  @PeaceDweller  And this is why I said most. There's nothing wrong with being vegan. Theres a problem with being a pushy vegam
    1
  1295. Uhh no. You can get it from red meat too. Most cardiovascular problems are caused by plaque buildup from fatty foods, the most common being red meat and fried foods. Meat isn't inherently bad. But too much of it certainly is.
    1
  1296. Then you would be objectively wrong.
    1
  1297. While I'm no longer a vegan, why feel sorry? Its what made me happy and was overall better for me.
    1
  1298.  @gaijincoordinator2922  The problem I have then is it isn't lies. Being vegan is better for the planet and in general, cutting down on meat consumption or cutting it out completely is healthier.
    1
  1299.  @totallysoulless6110  Sure, thats true. But the argument now is that you no longer need meat as you once did.
    1
  1300. Because most vegans are normal as well
    1
  1301.  @tiagotrindade2880  I don't eat grass. I just abstain from animal products
    1
  1302. No, because a cheetah and a bear need meat to be healthy nutritionally. Humans do not. You eat meat because you want to. Not becauae you need it.
    1
  1303. No you don't.
    1
  1304.  @gus195  There are plenty of vegan foods high in iron. Legumes have more iron than 3 ounces of beef.
    1
  1305. The only nutrient you cannot get naturally in a vegan diet is B12, which can be fortified in milks. So, no. If you're doing a vegan diet right, you should not be nutrient deficient. Some people are just extremists
    1
  1306. We're not.
    1
  1307. Well...veganism may come across as the healthy option because IN GENERAL it is healthier for the average person.
    1
  1308.  @kennymillalk  Of course its not. And I think most people know that.
    1
  1309. Humans are not meant to eat meat actually. Its just because of our evoultion, we are able to eat it in moderation without repercussions. One of those things where it won't hurt you in small amounts, but will do long term damage over time. Completely false. People are generally healthier on a vegan diet. There is nothing (except B12) that you can get from meat that you can't get in a vegan diet. That being said, anything can be taken too far. I have never heard of vegans killing their kids like that, but I won't rule out it doesn't happen. The bottom line is to find a diet that is right for you, but at least be open to trying new things.
    1
  1310.  @KoroSin777  Thats not the same thing as forcing someone to go vegan. The case you were talking about has nothing to do with veganism. Plenty of vegan foods contain more protein than meat. Veganism doesn't mean just eating plants. It just means abstaining from animal products. Cavemen needed meat to survive. The times were different then. You no longer have that need.
    1
  1311.  @KoroSin777  At one time, we did not have the plsnts around to supply us with the nutrients we needed to survive. That is why we consumed meat. That need is no longer around. You are right. There are plenty of vegan foods that are unhealthy, just like you can be unhealthy on a vegan diet. I could find no record of that case. The only case I found concerned a vegan mother who tried to start her baby on a vegan diet when it was young, and it subsequently died. That has nothing to do with the veganism movement. No, it is not slow starvation if you're doing it right. Anecdotal evidence, but I know 0 unhealthy vegans. I know 0 vegans with diabetes, heart disease, IBS, pulmonary disease, high cholesterol or high blood pressure. Do they exist? Sure. But these are much more likely to exist in meat eaters. I will call you out when your "beliefs" are wrong. You can be unhealthy on a vegan diet. You can be healthy on an omnivorous diet. Its about finding what is right for you.
    1
  1312.  @junkynote4799  Because you can get B12 in vegan foods. Fortified milks are often inhanced with B12. Just because it isn't found naturally doesn't mean you can't get it.
    1
  1313. Humans are animals. Facts don't care about your feelings.
    1
  1314.  @nukmanhassan6114  Because words have an established definition. Animal: a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli. By the way, a scientific theory is the higest something can get. Gravity is a theory. Would you argue gravity didn't exist?
    1
  1315.  @nukmanhassan6114  Depends on where you went to school. Teachers usually believe it is common sense to know that scientifically we're animals.
    1
  1316. They don't
    1
  1317. The argument there is humans don't need to eat meat and have a sense of morality, unlike other animals. So why should animals have to suffer just for your pleasure? Thats the moral vegan argument at least.
    1
  1318. Not all.
    1
  1319. I find it hard to believe you would save a human stranger over a pet you had formed an attachment with. So its not really crazy. Simply circumstantial.
    1
  1320. I'm vegan and about 90% sure I could whoop your ass. Extremists are the ones you should be mad at. Not a whole community.
    1
  1321. Hello there. We exist.
    1
  1322.  @stevenbos5206  I'm not going away anytime soon.
    1
  1323. Not about life. About sentience. From a moral perspective at least.
    1
  1324. Most people don't need meat. Its a want. At least from a nutritional perspective.
    1
  1325. So you don't respect people who are different than you? I can understand extremist vegans, like those shown, but the transgender thing is really kind of ignorant.
    1
  1326.  @rafaelmoran1165  Being transgender is a mental condition. And yes, you can. Gender is a social construct. And for you to always consider them as the gender they are born with is disrespectful.
    1
  1327.  @rafaelmoran1165  Having your beliefs is fine except when they're actively harmful. If you really feel that they're the same, I have a hard time believeing you'd call them what they want. Curious, why don't you believe in transgenderism? Is it a religious thing?
    1
  1328. I'm a vegan. I am not a radical nor am I vegan for any reason other than its healthier and I try not to support harming animals. I have no judgment or animosity towards those who are not vegan, but I thought I'd provide insight. Your question about humans vs carnivorous animals is actually quite easy. Its because humans (in general) do not need meat to survive nutritionally and be healthy. Carnivorous animals must rely on meat to survive. Also, most extremists I know believe you should, as a human, have a higher moral or ethical standard than an animal, and they find the animal hierarchy hypocritical. Just thought I'd provide insight.
    1
  1329. No its not. Quite the opposite. We're in the middle.
    1
  1330. "Like its just an animal" Yeah? So are humans. Why are we on a pedestal? Not saying you can't do what you want. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.
    1
  1331. Except we're not.
    1
  1332. Except, they don't. And they can't. They lack pain receptors, a brain, and a CNV.
    1
  1333. But a majority of that food grown actually goes to animal feed for livestock. Less than 10% of crops grown feed humans.
    1
  1334.  @SS-L.O.T.O.  In general. Less than 10% of food grown worldwide goes towards humans. Its mainly used in industry and animal feed.
    1
  1335. Some would. Because how can you say you love animals when you pay money for them to be abused and slaughtered?
    1
  1336.  @Christ_Is_Life10-10  Well, because masks don't actually do very much. I was playing devil's advocate
    1
  1337. In general, they actually are. However, meat eaters can be healthy just as vegans can be unhealthy
    1
  1338. I'm good. You should try not to generalize.
    1
  1339. Eating meat can make you unhealthy. It can also be healthy.
    1
  1340. That depends on where you live. Vegan alternatives, fruits and vegetables are cheaper where I live.
    1
  1341. No you don't.
    1
  1342. Extremists are obnoxious in general. You shouldn't make broad generalizations.
    1
  1343. No, not usually. They're made from animal milk. You can however get vegan ice cream.
    1
  1344. No, we're not. Not scientifically anyways.
    1
  1345. Hi hello. We exist.
    1
  1346. Nah. I'd still save the animal.
    1
  1347. You are so off base. Most vegans are like that for health reasons.
    1
  1348. It doesn't have to be. Legumes and grains are some of the cheapest foods. But it depends on geography.
    1
  1349. I don't have any hate.
    1
  1350. Ethical vegans abstain from any animal usage, including clothing.
    1
  1351. How is being vegan killing animals exactly?
    1
  1352.  @Emptycoconut  Uh-huh. The difference is the vegans do not support the slaughter of animals. That blood isn't on my hands. I do not support that. Then again, I personally don't care if you do. I'm not vegan for moral reasons.
    1
  1353.  @Emptycoconut  But by being vegan, I help encourage others to stand up. I can help save animals lives, even if thats not my reason for being vegan.
    1
  1354. Because life is not the issue. Sentience is. Animals understand emotions. Those who argue for morals think its hypocritical to punish someone for killing a companion animal but not livestock.
    1
  1355. B12 vitamins can be fortified in milks and both tofu and chickpeas have more iron than red meat per ounce. I'm a vegan and do not have to take supplements. But its work to compliment food, and I understand why you wouldn't want that diet.
    1
  1356. We're not the top of the food chain...
    1
  1357.  @yuzu8709  Lions. Hyenas. Crocodiles. Komodo dragons. Bears. All of these animals would naturall hunt and eat humans in the wild. Scientific food chains are based on trophic levels. We're in the middle near pigs. You could just not breed animals. Thats part of an ethical vegans perspective.
    1
  1358.  @yuzu8709  Thats not what determines a food chain though. And having weapons or not doesn't change the fact that they're still above us. They wouldn't go extinct either. They naturally reproduce and die on their own.
    1
  1359. Most vegans aren't like that.
    1
  1360. I'm pretty sure that animal had to be killed to be eaten though.
    1
  1361.  @satsat247  I'm pretty sure that plants aren't sentient. And me personally, I don't care what people eat. I'm just playing devil's advocate.
    1
  1362. They have nothing to do with each other.
    1
  1363.  @JOVine-gl6df  Well a, I'm not vegan for ethical reasons. But b, it all has to do with sentience. Simply put, an animal is sentient. A fetus is not.
    1
  1364.  @johndeoliveira8476  Life is not the issue. Sentience is.
    1
  1365.  @JOVine-gl6df  They do not have feeling or consciousness at the time of most abortions.
    1
  1366. No we don't. That's a lie.
    1
  1367.  @Lemonie626  That is not true. I am a vegan and take no supplements. Nothing that is found in meat cannot be gotten as a vegan except B12, which can be found in fortified milks.
    1
  1368. Anecdotal evidence, but I know exactly 0 unhealthy vegans. Her stance has nothing to do with veganism and everything to do with her own personality.
    1
  1369. Vegans or just extremists?
    1
  1370. That is not a proven fact. You would never survive eating 100% meat. Your digestive system is not designed for that. That being said, you can live a perfectly healthy life eating meat. You can also live a perfectly healthy life, without supplements, being vegan.
    1
  1371. Which you can get on a vegan diet.
    1
  1372. Thats...not how a food chain is measured. At all. Food chains are based on trophic levels. Not intelligence.
    1
  1373.  @SilentDaydreams  No we aren't. Not scientifically.
    1
  1374. Depends on where you live.
    1
  1375.  @FuzzyBunnyEars  Here where I live in Indiana is cheaper.
    1
  1376. But humans are not at the top of the food chain. Thats not the way food chains work from a scientific perspective.
    1
  1377.  @aleksandarar5489  to be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators themselves.
    1
  1378. Thats not true at all though. Anecdotal as it is, I know 0 unhealthy vegans. You can get everything you need from a vegan based fortified diet.
    1
  1379.  @cashglobe4198  That isn't true at all. There is no vitamin a vegan cannot get naturally except B-12, which can be added in almond, soy and rice milks.
    1
  1380.  @cashglobe4198  There is nothing you need you cannot get from a vegan diet. Having fortified foods is not the same thing as taking supplements. Hell, most everyone eats or drinks fortified foods. Yes it is. Just because we can eat meat in moderation without ot being harmful doesn't mean we need it.
    1
  1381.  @cashglobe4198  i don't have to. I am a vegan. I take no supplements and am healthy.
    1
  1382. I'm sure your last question was rhetorical, but I'll answer it anyway. Its because the coyote has a nutritional need for meat, whereas you do not. At least, not if you live in a developed country.
    1
  1383.  @nicolegoh9748  Veganism is certainly healthy without animal proteins. You do not need to consume animal flesh. You eat it because you want to, not because you must. Nothing wrong with that, as you can be healthy on both diets.
    1
  1384.  @nicolegoh9748  I have no idea what you are on about. You are entirely wrong. Protein is protein regardless of where it comes from. The body, in reality, is not meant to digest meat. Its just it won't hurt you in moderation. I'm a vegan because its healthier for me personally
    1
  1385. Not necessarily. But vegans abstain from animal products, including clothing.
    1
  1386. You mean synthetic meat or just vegan food in general?
    1
  1387. They have sensors yes. That is not the same as feelings. Feelings require a brain. Plants are not sentient. Animals are.
    1
  1388. That is a very untrue generalization.
    1
  1389. Most ethical vegans take issue with sentience over life.
    1
  1390.  @matafakal1735  Its not the fact that animals are alive thats the issue. Its that their sentient, and ethical vegans have a severe problem with the animal hierarchy.
    1
  1391. Because in general, being vegan is healthier.
    1
  1392. Perhaps rational vegans can change your opinion.
    1
  1393.  @remutar6979  I like to consider myself a rational vegan
    1
  1394.  @remutar6979  Probably not. The minority does scream the loudest
    1
  1395. And what do most of those factory farms crops go to? Animal and livestock feed. I'm just playing devil's advocate.
    1
  1396. We can. We don't need to.
    1
  1397. You do realize people have egg allergies and there are multiple egg free influenza vaccines right? And most vegans are not against animal testing if its necessary for medication required to live. Thats an exception. I don't care what you eat. I just don't think those points were very strong.
    1
  1398. Humans can't be carnivorous for extended periods of time. You would destroy your digestive system.
    1
  1399.  @alkeryn1700  You do not have the ability to eat only meat. I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
    1
  1400.  @alkeryn1700  Your body literally runs on carbs. Show me one person who is carnivorous. Who ONLY eats meat and nothing else.
    1
  1401. You can be moral and vegan you know...
    1
  1402.  @criticclips1560  Unless in a life or death situation, it is unnecessary. From a scientific perspective anyway.
    1
  1403.  @criticclips1560  My point was that from a scientific perspective, its unnecessary because it is not required. I'm not saying what's good and bad.
    1
  1404. No they can't. They do not have brains. They do however respond to outside stimuli chemically.
    1
  1405.  @re71707  You can hardly conflate that with anything close to pain. That's a huge fallacy. They do not feel pain or fear on any level. They simply react to outside stimuli.
    1
  1406. By definition, no. Humans are not predators. We are simply omnivorous. Most of your teeth are not designed for eating meat. And actually, evidence shows that if we stopped domesticating farm animals (that are fed about 93% of the crop harvest), you could see an end to starvation. I don't care what you eat though. Just correcting some misinformation.
    1
  1407. While most of what you said is correct, your last statement is completely wrong. Soybeans are an example of a vegan complete protein. You can eat meat. You just don't need to.
    1
  1408. I'm a vegan for health reasons, but I'll play devils advocate from an ethical vegan perspective. The main issue they see is an unnecessary slaughter of sentient animals, but also the hypocrisy of the hierarchy. If you killed and butchered a dog for food, people would be calling you a monster and you would be sent to prison. Why is a cow so much different? Dogs aren't apex predators and can be consumed. So why is one okay and the other not? Thats what I gather.
    1
  1409. Believing something doesn't make it fact. Facts don't care about your feelings. We are NOT the top of the food chain.
    1
  1410. If you're referring to the methane they produce, humans produce it as well.
    1
  1411.  @masterbaiter1237  I don't care what you eat, but if food is food, what's wrong with cannibalism? Humans are also just meaty animals.
    1
  1412.  @masterbaiter1237  So you wouldn't be opposed by someone eating companion animals like a dog or a cat?
    1
  1413. Well, they may be right on some level. Consuming meat raises your risk of heart disease, which is the number one cause of death. That being said, I doubt that is the only factor.
    1
  1414. Yes we are. Facts don't care about your feelings. Animal: a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli. Sorry sweetie. That includes humans. You're a primate.
    1
  1415. Except thats entirely untrue. You know what most of the agricultural we grow is used for? Animal food.
    1
  1416. Yes I am. However, I don't personally care what you are. Do what makes you happy and what is personally healthy for you.
    1
  1417. I'm not an ethical vegan, but the ones I know either simply let them live, or catch and release them.
    1
  1418. We know plants don't feel. They have no nervous system.
    1
  1419. Not necessarily.
    1
  1420. And things and situations change. No such thing as the best diet for everyone. I have better health as a vegan. You may not.
    1
  1421.  @michaelcohen2760  I've been vegan for over a decade. Never been better. It cleared up nearly all of my health problems too.
    1
  1422.  @michaelcohen2760  Mmm...nope. You're a cook. Not a doctor. I am strictly vegan (meaning I consume no animal products nor wear animal products) and have none of the issues I had when I consumed meat. I see a doctor every month, and everything is great. Its not anti-life and I know many people who chose vegan or vegetarian diets later in life. But again, it doesn't work for everyone.
    1
  1423. I like to think I have morals as a vegan.
    1
  1424. Because veganism doesn't work for everyone. Situations change.
    1
  1425. We wouldn't have flat teeth if we were not meant to digest plant based protein. Meat protein is just easier for the body to get access to. You can still live a healthy and normal life in a vegan diet. But I understand that diet is not for everyone.
    1
  1426.  @uncookedeshay4582  So I'm a fuck wit because I happen to have a different diet than you? Way to show your maturity. I don't care what you eat. Veganism is healthier for me, so I choose to eat vegan.
    1
  1427. Vegans aren't. Extremists are.
    1
  1428. Its really not...
    1
  1429. Here. In the comments.
    1
  1430. I like to think I'm a pretty intelligent vegan.
    1
  1431. Thats not how food chains work. Did you pass year 7 science? Because you seem to believe you're at the top.
    1
  1432.  @emilysheil4168  Because we're not. Its that simple. We don't meet the scientific criteria to be at the top of the food chain.
    1
  1433.  @emilysheil4168  Food chains are based on trophic levels on a scale of 1 to 5. Humans are around a 2.2. To be truly at the "top of the food chain," in scientific terms, you have to strictly consume the meat of animals that are predators.
    1
  1434.  Kaleela Edwards  But thats not what food chains are based on. Its technology that saves us, not strength.
    1
  1435. It can be. Just depends on the person.
    1
  1436. Then you aren't vegan.
    1
  1437.  @emilranfors4540  Then your still not a vegan. You're a meat eater who eats a mostly plant based diet. Nothing wrong with that
    1
  1438.  @emilranfors4540  Because part pf being vegan is consistency. If you're eating meat once in a while, you aren't fitting the definition. You'd be plant-based. I also now think you're just a troll I fell for.
    1
  1439. That doesn't make it better. You no longer have a need to eat meat.
    1
  1440.  @BingBangBrine  I don't personally care what people eat. I'm a vegan for health reasons.
    1
  1441. If that's the case, could someone not make the argument for humans eating other humans? Or eating companion animals?
    1
  1442. Why does abortion always get brought up? It has nothing to do with veganism, even morally. Fetuses are not sentient at the time of most abortions. Just like plants aren't sentient.
    1
  1443. Most do. But not all
    1
  1444.  @robertnowak5444  I'm a vegan with logic.
    1
  1445. That isn't how food chains work. We are not the top. Thats just a scientific fact
    1
  1446. Meat can also be extremely unhealthy.
    1
  1447. Because the argument is about being vegan, which ice cream is not.
    1
  1448.  @jakecamp13  Eh. I'm vegan and I'm okay without ice cream. Although apparently vegan ice cream exists.
    1
  1449. You can be smart and be a vegan though.
    1
  1450. That doesn't make us the top of the food chain. We're certainly not.
    1
  1451.  @kingt1184  We're not an apex predator and food chains are measured by trophic levels. We are not the top of the food chain by any scientific standard.
    1
  1452. No. But extremists are.
    1
  1453. Well no. Thats just not true. We don't eat grass.
    1
  1454. Except they don't. Because they can't. Because they lack a nervous system and brain. Plants, like all living things, react to outside stimuli. And when their environment changes, they respond. Actually, the main point of most vegans and vegetarians is health.
    1
  1455.  @motherphatburger2653  No. No they don't. They have a chemical response because you damage cell walls when you chop or uproot it. That is nothing like pain.
    1
  1456. Being pro-choice and vegan doesn't make you a hypocrite, even on an ethical level.
    1
  1457. Execpt the other animals have a nutritional need for meat whereas humans do not.
    1
  1458. Genetics.
    1
  1459.  @heghoge4639  But thats the reason.
    1
  1460.  @heghoge4639  Genetics are what make animals act the way they do. Lions are predators with a nutritional need for meat. Humans are not. Then again, I don't care what you eat
    1
  1461. Yes and? The issue is sentience. Not life.
    1
  1462. Because typically it is. It does damage to the digestive tract and the cardiovascular system when eaten regularly. It also doesn't inherently harm you. You can be healthy on a vegan or omnivorous diet.
    1
  1463.  @Sparkle815  And thats perfectly fine. Just eat it in moderation.
    1
  1464. Why do idiots always strawman the abortion argument? I don't even care about what people it, but its about the needs behind it. Learn the difference between a fetus and a baby and learn what sentience is. Learn why people choose to have an abortion before shaming them.
    1
  1465. Not really. I just get tired of misinformation being spread. I don't really care what you eat.
    1
  1466. Because I have a different diet than you?
    1
  1467. I've never met a vegan who doesn't understand that plants are living. We do. But thats not the issue ethical vegans have. Some call you killers because you actively support the killing of sentient animals. If you have no preexisting conditions and you can afford complimenting, you should have no dietary complications from veganism. But everyone works differently. Most people do not need meat. Meat is a want.
    1
  1468. Not all vegans are like that.
    1
  1469.  @piesandhiking4943  I'm a vegan and much healthier and happier now. Preferences.
    1
  1470. Because they aren't sentient.
    1
  1471. So why is there a whole category called "man-eaters"?
    1
  1472. Thats not the argument from an ethical standpoint.
    1
  1473. -Not every vegan is an ethical vegan -False. Most of the crops farmed goes to animal feed for livestock, not vegan food. -False. A meal can deliver optimal nutrition without meat. Complimenting.
    1
  1474.  @Boot_Ma9net  There are many ethical reasons to be vegan, but I am not one for eithcal reasons. No vegan thinks everyone would be vegan overnight. But if the world eventually DID go vegan, no. More animals would not die. And there is no evidence to support that. Again, false. Soybeans are a complete protein. And complimenting allows people to get all the nutrients they need. You won't argue it because your wrong. Diets are different for everyone.
    1
  1475. We should stop the misconception that "only eating plants" is an accurate representation of a vegan diet. Plenty of vegan foods are full of protein. Soybeans are a complete protein. In some, long term veganism may be unhealthy. That's not the case for all. And all of those problems you listed could also be a result of eating meat. I've never been healthier now that I'm vegan. There are bodybuilders, athletes, and old folks alike who have been on a vegan diet for decades and are in perfect health. The key is finding a diet that suits you, whether it be vegan or contain meat.
    1
  1476.  @lukeh8056  No they cannot.
    1
  1477.  @marijuannasenpai1196  You can't feel pain without a nervous system or a brain
    1
  1478. Why? Because we have a different viewpoint? Or becauae you generalize us?
    1
  1479. No, they can't. You cannot feel pain without a nervous system.
    1
  1480.  @fittzie  Plants recognize injury through outside stimuli that react when cell walls are broken. Pain can only be registered by a brain and nervous system.
    1
  1481.  @fittzie  It's incapable of feeling.
    1
  1482.  @fittzie  Yes it is. They have no brain nor nervous system.
    1
  1483. No, its because ethical vegans are against owning pets. They view it as a type of enslavement. They want domestication to stop completely.
    1
  1484. Not all.
    1
  1485. How do you know they're unhealthy?
    1
  1486. That is just...factually untrue.
    1
  1487. You're not an omnivore unless you choose to be
    1
  1488.  @doctorstrange1734  No, that isn't what I said. You can CHOOSE to eat meat. While the species is indeed omnivorous, the individual does not have to be. I choose to be vegan because of my health. I don't argue from morals or ethics.
    1
  1489.  @doctorstrange1734  I didn't have a problem eating meat. Not with digestion anyway.
    1
  1490.  @doctorstrange1734  Thats fine. I went vegan because chemo shot my metabolism and immune system, and a diet consisting even of good meat and dairy was giving me cardiovascular ans hypertension problems. Digestively, I actually tolerated a meat diet better.
    1
  1491. The opposite is in fact true. Most humans do not need meat to be healthy. The only nutrient that cannot be found in a vegan diet is B12, which can be found in fortitifed milks. Omnivore does not mean one has to eat meat. It means one can. And while you do skip out on benefits meat offers as a vegan, you also skip out on consequences of eating meat. Find a diet that suits you.
    1
  1492. You could argue that humans are at the top of thr food chain. But you would be factually wrong. We are not. "Vegan diets are super lacking..." No. Let me stop you there. If you are lacking in nutrients on a vegan diet, you are doing something wrong. You can get B12 in fortified milks. Omega-3s can be found in Chia seeds, hemp and kidney beans. No vegan I know takes pills, and you certainly don't have to unless you cannot get or afford these items.
    1
  1493.  @antobutera  If you live in a country that doesn't allow that then yes. This is why I'm not a vegan for moral reasons
    1
  1494. Humans don't need meat like other animals. We eat it because of pallet pleasure.
    1
  1495. Animals are sentient beings capable of emotions. Plants are not.
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  1496. Thats not the point. Plants aren't sentient.
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  1497.  @AMELIA-nq2pw  In my opinion yes. Since when do we care about life? You eat animals, pay taxes to the military, pay taxes to put people to death etc. Human beings have, in general, cared about life when a being is capable of feeling and thinking subjectively.
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  1498. @KebenaranBukanMilikAndaAtaupunSaya Again, thats not the moral argument
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  1499. @KebenaranBukanMilikAndaAtaupunSaya You completely misunderstand the entire point.
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  1500. Being vegan is better for the environment than eating meat, so your point there is wrong. Fortunately, this group is not the majority. People like me are vegan, but I think you should eat whatever makes you feel good about yourself.
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  1501.  @fakyu9346  Its just better for the environment. You don't need meat, but its not my place to tell you what to eat.
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  1502. There are plenty of us who aren't assholes.
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  1503. No, we're not. Not scientifically at least.
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  1504. Yes we are. Facts don't care about your feelings.
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  1505. Protein is protein no matter the source. Meat just usually contains more and is more easily absorbed and utilized by the body, which is why we need to complement.
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  1506. Some people no longer even have canines. Only one pair are canines. Just because we evolved eating meat does not mean we must. A snake has a nutritional need to eat meat. A human does not.
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  1507.  @stormoday5263  Iron can be gotten in a vegan diet easily. Yes, if I had to eat meat, I would. No, a lion has a need to eat meat. And I'm not actually a vegan who cares what people eat.
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  1508. I wouldn't say that's true. I'm a former vegan, but I had to stop because of a medical condition I developed. I physically have to eat meat now.
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  1509. Some of us are very intelligent.
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  1510.  @kaptynkavman235  Well, that we agree on. Because these are extremists.
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  1511.  @MB-ux9me  No, humans are not the top of the food chain. We are in the middle.
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  1512.  @MB-ux9me  No, we're not. That is not how scientific food chains work.
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  1513. God has never been proven to exist.
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  1514.  @jaggergiven_8231  Your failed attempt at humor is sad. If your entire argument is based around a belief, as opposed to fact, you have no leg to stand on.
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  1515. No not necessarily. A vegan diet is just healthier for some people.
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  1516.  @fabianc6025  There are vegan foods way higher in protein and carbs than you would ever get from meat. Also no. Everyone's tastes for food is different.
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  1517. No, you're wrong. Humans are not the top of the food chain. Food chains, scientifically speaking, are based on trophic levels. We are in the middle. Yeah, and you'll run away like a coward in most circumstances because those animals are called man-eaters for a reason.
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  1518.  @rispiccinich8802  Ma'am. And no, your not wrong for having an opinion. Your just wrong factually. Also, you're speaking to an atheist, so the God thing is lost on me. And a brain will not protect you from a bear or a croc. They have brains too. We just have higher cognitive function. My point was just stating you are wrong to state we're at the top of the food chain. We're not
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  1519.  @rispiccinich8802  The facts actually do dictate how you live your life because you can't live without them, but I see what your saying. Except the creator thing. I don't believe in God, but you do you. Sure you can think about how to get out of a situation but that doesn't mean you will. Its just one part.
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  1520. I value my cat over most people, especially strangers. Thats just normal. Most people who own a pet feel a psychological connection to them. If you're telling me you would save a human stranger over ypur pet, I'll call you a liar.
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