Comments by "TombWraith" (@Tomb-Wraith) on "Death Penalty u0026 Anti Death Penalty: Is There Middle Ground? | Middle Ground" video.

  1. It's also not always good to have an emotionally charged revenge driven mindset
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  2. I feel the exact opposite, especially since they were providing false data, such as capital punishment being a deterrent to crime which has been disproven. The very foundation of the death penalty is rooted in emotions. There is no logical, rational or beneficial reason for capital punishment. It's more expensive, its not a deterrent and it doesn't lower crime rates
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  3.  @rzqy  I replied to you because I was offering both sides. You seemed to believe Sean had a potentially bad mindset. I simply said that could be interpreted for both sides.
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  4.  @kieranmooney3453  Which is impossible, and any entry level Crim Law class will teach you that.
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  5. Because there's a difference between a non sentient fetus and a sentient person. Also, until we fix the adoption system, abortion benefits society and is a better alternative to neglecting and abusing a sentient child. Capital punishment has no uses. It's a strictly visceral emotional response. No one is okay with abortion. We wish it didn't happen. But we understand why a woman would choose to have one.
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  6. No actually, very few killers are sociopaths. Most murders, in the US at least, are crime of passion murders. Sociopathy is an actual mental illness
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  7. Go back to the dark ages.
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  8.  @FemboyGaming420  No it shouldn't in my humble opinion. I understand the sentiment, but Dahmer and Bundy both confessed. Ultimately, the death penalty does nothing beneficial.
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  9.  @kw7142  Depends on how deep of a coma they're in. I would say most people of you asked would prefer death to a comatose. I have no moral issue with pulling the plug in someone who is braindead
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  10. But they are also making unvalid and, frankly, false claims, such as the death penalty being a deterrent or less expensive. These simply are false narratives, and this issue should be based on facts. Not emotion.
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  11.  @themasterrocks557  I can understand that. That woman is definitely over dramatic.
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  12.  @MyChannel-eo8ic  Because that's all the death penalty is. Its posturing. "You took away my loved one from me, so I demand you give up your life in exchange". That is the literal definition of revenge. Your metaphor makes no sense. You can make a person pay for a crime without demanding they die.
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  13.  @kw7142  Theres a difference between life and sentience, and its sentience that counts. I think abortion should be a last possible resort, but I would rather see a non sentient fetus aborted than a sentient child abused and neglected by an unfit parent. I don't necessarily have an argument for abortion so much as I have an argument for the right to an abortion. I wish to one day live in a world where abortion is no lo longer done or needed
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  14. You'd then be wrong. Try looking at statistics.
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  15.  @MyChannel-eo8ic  You both are way to emotional to work in the CJ industry. Revenge driven.
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  16. That's why life in prison exists.
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  17. The pro death penalty side is the one arguing from emotion. How is "because they deserve it" an objective argument? The bottom line remains is if you simply argue from facts, you would be anti-death penalty.
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  18.  @elliekennedyy  Because facts don't side with the pro-death penalty side. Facts would be on the anti side.
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  19. I don't know how that is ironic or sad.
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  20. You do realize more money and resources are spent to those on death row right?
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  21. It is not your place nor your right to take that into your own hands. What you believe someone deserves doesn't matter. Laws should be based on their benefits to society. The death penalty has no benefit, and thus, should be abolished.
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  22. Too expensive Not a deterrent Doesn't lower violent crime Risks innocent people Doesn't bring the dead back What reason do you have to for the death penalty...?
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  23. So we should waste more resources and more money executing them? They're not any more a danger in prison than they are on death row.
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  24. That is not an argument for the death penalty.
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  25. So they live in an alternative dimension simply because they're against the death penalty? Or is it because you fail to understand their position?
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  26. The death penalty is not, and has never been, a deterrent. It only deters those who would never do it in the first place. It does not deter would be criminals.
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  27. Except we know that isn't factually accurate.
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  28.  @milfbandit4252  I'm almost 30 ans have the exact same opinion. I advocate to abolish the death penalty completely.
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  29. It doesn't excuse punishment. It offers insight to carry out a fair trial. Most of the criminals we sentence are not an outright danger. And you realize you pay more for the death penalty right? Abolish it.
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  30.  LittleNova.  The death penalty is more taxes than life in prison, so thats not an argument
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  31. You're in the minority. And as someone who also was a victim, the death penalty won't make you feel better.
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  32. Right...because "convicted" means "guilty" right?
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  33. If you removed all emotion from the capital punishment debate, people who are pro capital punishment would have no leg to stand on. The facts don't side with them.
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  34. So...should we execute every verteran who saw combat? Veterans that killed civilians in their duties? "A life for a life" is so vague.
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  35. Then you shouldn't work in a jail anymore, because there absolutely doesn't.
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  36. Perhaps in your view, but no. That is not an objective fact
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  37.  @TheDave159  Thats because abortion deals with the a woman's constitutional rights. If you do for the right reasons, it doesn'r fuck you up mentally
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  38. He never said everyone could, but most can. And we don't even give them that chance.
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  39. So by that logic, anyone who has accidentally killed someone deserves to die. Any soldier deserves to die. Anyone who has killed in self defense deserves to die. See the problem?
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  40.  @IssyFishyy  But that's what an eye for an eye means. And I actually DO know people who think like that.
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  41.  @IssyFishyy  I'm not. I'm asking for clarification based on the actual definition of what an eye for an eye would mean. No where does it mention an eye for an eye means international killing. Based on this law, if you built a house for a neighbor and you accidentally didn't build it properly, you would die if it killed the owner. And your child would die if it killed their child.
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  42.  @IssyFishyy  No. Your interpretation only applies to you. And you also don't get to change the connotation the phrase once had, even though its perfectly reasonable to have a different interpretation.
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  43. Not really a question of whether or not he "deserved" it. Its a question of, should it have been done? I argue no.
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  44. Deserving something should not be what a law is based on. That is lunacy. Emotions get in the way of resonable actions. Now, thats not to say emotions shouldn't play a role. But when the entire backbone of your argument is "I feel they deserve it", your position looks weak. There is NEVER 100% proof in ANY case. That is one of the first things they teach you in any criminal justice course.
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  45. Very few actually. Because the ones who get off death row are usually commuted to a life sentence or were innocent in the first place.
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  46. They also don't become a repeat offender in prison for life. Except potentially against other offenders. Which you seem okay with.
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  47.  @Z33Garage  You do realize execution costs more of your tax dollars, right?
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  48.  @Z33Garage  No, its because of the Constitution
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  49. The death penalty is not practical nor beneficial and should be abolished.
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  50. There's a reason you weren't picked for jury duty. You're too emotional, you lack logic, and you're biased.
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  51. Except they aren't. In fact, we don't even use the word psychopath anymore. Most murders aren't even 1st degree. They're 2nd. Have you even tried? Tried to listen and see things from all perspectives? I understand why you'd feel this way, but part of understanding is looking at a perspective we don't agree with. The only purpose of the death penalty is to enact revenge on people. That gets you nothing. Except maybe temporary satisfaction. If that's what you consider justice, perhaps you are the one who lacks empathy. You may say that now, but that may not be how you feel when the time comes.
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  52. That's very vague and quite a slippery slope.
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  53. Argument from emotion fallacy. Stay away from the justice system.
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  54.  @chouaibsasmr  I work in the justice system. Give me a valid, non-emotional reason for capital punishment. Here are some against: More expensive than a life sentence, not a deterrent, doesn't lower violent crime, no risk of executing innocents. Tell me what logic the death penalty provides.
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  55. The best way to do that is to abolish the death penalty. It provides no practical benefit to society.
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  56. Ah, the myth that death convicts feel no pain.
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  57. Because it doesn't. And this has been proven. The "deterrence" only comes from people who would have never done it in the first place. Death isn't scary to most criminals. They have nothing to lose. If it were true that the death penalty deterred crime, than states and countries with a death penalty would have lower crime rates. This isn't true. You should really do some research.
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  58. Yes. Deter means to discourage someone from doing something by instilling doubt or fear of the consequences.
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  59.  @finalbossoftheinternet6002  It just depends on the person. Your comment stated that no child rapist can be rehabilitated. That just isn't factual. Some can and some cannot.
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  60. Also remember Death sentences cost MORE money!!
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  61.    You realize you pay more to execute, right?
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  62. There is no reason for us to have a death penalty.
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  63.  @haza123b4  Inherently? Nothing. Secularly? A lot. We would drive our country into the ground if we allowed retaliation for revenge.
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  64.  @haza123b4  I'm not against capital punishment for any moral reasons. Morality is subjective. I'm against capital punishment for practical reasons.
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  65. Perhaps in your opinion. That should not dictate the law.
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  66.  @bradleymcdonald6273  You waste more valuable resources putting him to death. The death penalty is objectively more expensive. That is q fact. As far as torture, it's only torture if the convicted allows it to be. I agree that prison should focus more on rehabilitation, but there is no benefit to capital punishment.
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  67.  @freedomdividendnews5042  Comparing other countries, espeically contries known for human rights violations, doesn't help your argument. The culture, population, and crime statistics are all different. The fact remains that states without the death penalty have lower violent crime rates. In 2018, of the 5 countries with the lowest crime rates, only 2 had capital punishment. And in the 5 states with the lowest crime rate, only 1 had capital punishment. Its simply not a deterrent.
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  68. I'm anti-death penalty because its a useless system that provides no practical benefit to society. It is only there to soothe some people's emotional instability.
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  69.  @earbunnyisgloomy9613  I disagree.
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  70.  @potterkid4285  I'm well aware of who Ted Bundy was. But I don't believe emotions should dictate laws. I believe laws should be practical and beneficial. I don't think its "unfair". I simply don't think it was practical. By the way, he never escaped from prison. His 2 escapes were from a van during transit and a library where he was left alone.
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  71. Yeah but why? Let me guess, emotional reasons? Because theres certainly no practical reason for capital punishment.
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  72. But you wouldn't resent losing more of your taxes to put them to death?
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  73. You completely misunderstood his point. His POINT was that MOST people are NOT Ted Bundy. They are NOT Charles Manson (who never even really did anything besides be a major drug lord). They are CAPABLE of rehabilitation. But our justice system doesn't focus on rehabilitation. And it should.
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  74. Then go back to the dark ages where we never had an progression.
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  75.  @JustSaiyanDude  Except one law is practical and the other is not. One is a punishment and can result in rehabilitation. The other is too expensive and does nothing for society.
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  76.  @JustSaiyanDude  No, its okay to have emotions. Its okay to feel as though that is what they deserve. But to argue from emotion is fallcious. It has no place as a basis for a law. 1. Its more expensive than life in prison. 2. Its not a deterrent to crime. 3. It doesn't lower violent crime rate. 4. Its a violation of the Constitution if its used to execute an innocent. These are my arguments. Only one of them stems from emotion, so its my lowest talking point.
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  77.  @JustSaiyanDude  A punishment, in its context, is designed to be learned from. You cannot be the judge when it comes to life and death. That is not fair to the innocent people involved. About 4% of people currently sitting on death row are, at the ver least, innocent of the crime that put them there
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  78. While it is known that capital punishment is not a deterrent, your example is horrid. The UK has a higher homicide rate than a majority of US states. Nearly tripled in the last 5 years, and even outdid NYC. But...thats mainly because of your government.
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  79. Except it wouldn't. Thats been disproven.
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  80.  @MyMarnus  Uhh no. Because countries without the death penalty have been proven to have lower crime rates
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  81.  @MyMarnus  Sorry that facts do not support your argument. Its too expensive, its not a deterrent and it doesn't lower crime rates.
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  82.  @kw7142  That's fine. I ultimately think it should be left up to the comatose person. Important to have a will
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  83. What common sense is there in the death penalty? What benefit does it provide?
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  84. Kinda loose language you're using. If you've ever jaywalked or sped, you would be a criminal by definition. Know they deserve death? That isn't a known. That's a personal opinion. One the majority of people do not support.
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  85.  @operatorbutt4265  There is no practical reason to execute them and they do take up resources executing them. They still have to eat and sleep on death row, and the drugs could go to other things. Your only reason for capital punishment is arbitrary, subjective and emotional. The bottom line is capital punishment is not practical. It is more expensive, it doesn't lower crime rates and it isn't a deterrent
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  86.  @serenity9932  And why is that? What is hypocritical?
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  87. No it isn't. How does capital punishment protect society any more than life in prison?
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  88. 1. No. The death penalty does not deter violent crimes. This is no longer an opinion. It is a proven fact. 2. Not everyone can be rehabilitated. That is also a fact. 3. Religion should play no role in any kind of argument unless it is a theological one. There is no proof of a Gods existence and everyone's stance is different.
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  89. Why? Its not beneficial.
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  90. It is absolutely not a deterrent. Not to criminals at least. This has been continuously disproven. Saudi Arabia is also a country that has 0 human rights. And the death penalty has nothing to do with the lack of crime there. It has to do with the fact that the crimes down are enacted by a dictatorial government.
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  91. Because taking the time to invest in a person gains knowledge of what drove them in the first place. It helps us find the root cause to ensure more do not follow in that path.
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  92. You probably already do, since anyone who has ever jaywalked, speeded etc is by definition a criminal. Also, you completely misunderstood what he said.
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  93. Not true at all. Its just harder in adults than children.
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  94. Yeah...if thats your argument, you're on the wrong side, since it costs more taxpayer money to execute them than it does to imprison them for life.
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  95.  @LIROELQBREGA  Yes. It does. And this is common knowledge. You know why? Because of the due process given to death row inmates to file unlimited appeals. Even staying on death row costs double than it does to keep the same inmate in ad seg.
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  96. Because they're not first timers specifically because of the way the prison system is set up. We doom them to failure when they get out.
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  97. The death penalty is 3 times more expensive, is not a deterrent, and does not bring closure which is why most victims do not support it.
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  98.  @Spike20024  it's not a deterrent, or crime rates wouldn't be consistently lower in non death penalty states. It's not cheap, as you don't just pay for thye execution, and very few are executed in that manner. Have some found closure? Sure. But that is simply not the majority. Have you ever been affected by violent crime? A majority of victims do not believe that capital punishment will bring them closure.
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  99.  @lukanvlogs5498  I never said the accused is innocent, although 1 in 25 people who sit on death row are innocent of the crimes in which they were accused. But, on a moral stance, I believe it's wrong to punish innocent family members for what their relative did. Then again, I'm not against the death penalty for any moral reasons.
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  100. No, we think that people who can and want to get help should. And those who don't should be locked up.
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  101.  @SleekCharming  I agree. That's why he should be in prison for life. The death penalty has never been a deterrent. It doesn't negate anything.
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  102.  @SleekCharming  Umm no? I'm a victim, and I abhore revenge.
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  103.  @SleekCharming  Yeah. That's also the majority however
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  104. Which is actually a good thing to do. Being sympathetic with someone doesn't make them any less criminally responsible, or mean they shouldn't suffer consequences. It just shows that he is an empathetic individual. Nothing wrong with that.
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  105. So all military members should die.
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  106. Fallacies should have no business in our laws
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  107. There is no more risk keeping someone on death row than there is keeping someone incarcerated for life. You're projecting and being irrational.
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  108.  @MyChannel-eo8ic  I'm against the death penalty. That's what we disagree on
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  109. No, the death penalty is revenge. If thats the case, you should not have children. You are a danget to people because you cannot control your emotions.
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  110. So, a guess the entire military deserves to die?
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  111.  @thamas_420  But your statement is vague. It says "if someone kills".
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  112. Hypoxia is not quick or humane. Its also very painful up to the point of loss of consciousness.
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  113.  @brianmi40  Nitrogen hypoxia is not what you described. That would be putting a person in a container of nitrogen. You described oxygen deprived asphyxia, being put in a chamber with oxygen and then having the oxygen depleted. That is not painless.
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  114. Because everyone ever convicted is actually guilty right?
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  115.  @priscillapie  Do you not understand that mistakes in evidence happen and people are wrongfully convicted?
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  116.  @priscillapie  I don't believe the death penalty is practical or beneficial. Evidence can be used to convict people and be wrong. Nothing is worth executing an innocent person.
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  117.  @chlorophyll6154  Ted Bundy never escaped prison. He escaped from a jail holding cell and a courthouse. You could at least get your facts straight. Lets see. It doesn't lower the crime rate. Its far too expensive. You risk executing innocent people. And it doesn't bring the dead back. Provides no benefit.
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  118.  @DMWBN3  and that's wrong. But at least you can set people free from prison. You can't from death.
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  119. How are we lucky? Do you know how much money is wasted on death penalty convictions? Nearly 3 times more than a lifer. Besides quell your need for bloodshed and revenge, what does the death penalty offer you? Its more expensive, it doesn't affect crime rates, its not a deterrent. So why do you want it?
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  120. Its normal to be empathetic, even towards people who cause harm. What does staying angry at a killer do for you? Make you miserable.
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  121. Please never work in the criminal justice system.
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  122. And yet, no one has ever escaped a max federal prison.
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  123. There is no such thing as 100% undeniable evidence.
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  124. Doesn't make it practical to execute them.
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  125. Just because someone did something wrong doesn't make them inhuman. You're now throwing the criminals side out the window. Its important to consider what may have driven a person to do something like that. Everyone considers the family and the victim. Quit pretending they don't.
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  126.  @theprincipalityofbelka4646  And what evidence do ypu have that they could easily escape? By that logic, they could easily escape death row.
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  127. There are still no practical reasons for capital punishment. Has nothing to do with being a "snowflake".
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  128. That doesn't make sense...
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  129.  @IssyFishyy  As a victim, I disagree.
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  130. And what about for those of us who do not believe in this God?
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  131. That statement proves how little you know about sociology and psychology.
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  132. Absoutely false. A majority of killers do have empathy and can/do want to change.
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  133. I feel like putting people to death is a waste of resources.
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  134.  @marisavincent9104  Because its punishment. Thats what prison was designed for.
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  135. Rehabilitate him for what? He wasn't insane.
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  136. People like you is what's wrong with our world. You have to drag politics into everything. You do not have to be a liberal to be against a useless emotional based punishment system.
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  137.  @AnimatedBlast  All of that would still be classified as "circumstantial" evidence.
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  138. So are the pro death penalty people.
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  139. Really? Then why do most of us who have lost loved ones to violent ends abhore the death penalty? I'm disgusted that people think the answer to death is more death
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  140. No. Abolish it across the board. There is no logical reason to have it.
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  141. How is that?
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  142. Anyone who has done any reserach into contries that actually use rehabilitation would see that the recidivism rate is much lower. Especially since most pther countries really put the emphasis on rehabilitation for non-violent offenders, which the US does not do. So that argument is a straight up lie. You have a really fucked up sense of justice.
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  143.  @15gladuis22  Its not an insult. Its an observation based on a comment you made. The fact that you hold no emotion and casually talk about killing people is disturbing and, frankly, fucked up. America's prison system has NEVER been focused on rehabilitation. We disguse it as that, but the fact remains that it has always been a punishment first system. States that have enacted rehabilitation programs, especially for non-violent offenders, saw a massive drop in recidivism rates. We have never tried rehabilitation for major crimes (by which I assume you mean things like robbery, rape, murder etc.). We wouldn't know that because we've never employed it. Especially since most murders are not 1st degree.
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  144.  @15gladuis22  Neither parole nor probation are any type of rehabilitation. They do nothing to help the criminal, and often make it easier to end up in prison. Jaywalking is a violation of probation/parole. Getting pulled over for speeding is a violation. Of course its not effective. We make it impossible because we don't address the heart of the issue. You make that sound like it should be an option. It shouldn't. We should not have capital punishment.
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  145.  @15gladuis22  Parole is not an alternate sentence. Its a continuation of a sentence outside of a prison. You have very limited options for work on probation and parole. Some will not let you work at all until the probation or parole is lifted. No, that's what people like to pretend its used for. What it's really used for is an excuse to have someone serve the sentence the system deems acceptable. Ask literally anyone who has been to jail or prison. They'd prefer to stay put rather than be on parole or probation in some cases. Yeah, one of their rules as simple as crossing the street or going 2 miles over the speed limit. Or going to a friend's house that happens to have a firearm or alcohol that you are unaware of. Actually, yes they would. There's even videos on youtube of police arresting jaywalkers. Google it. Were those people on parole or probation, they would have been arrested and returned to prison. You still have made no argument, other than an emotional one, for capital punishment
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  146. You do realize you pay more to execute them right?
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  147. Deserving of the death penalty is not cause for having it. They are no more a threat to society in prison than they are on death row.
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  148. You do realize that execution costs MORE than life in prison correct? This is common knowledge...
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  149. You sound like a psychopath.
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  150. You would be deterred regardless of whether or not the death penalty was in place. Odds are, you're not a criminal.
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  151. Define criminal. A criminal is anyone who breaks the law.
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  152. No it shouldn't.
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  153.  @OwenH16  Considering I can actally logically debate why we shouldn't have capital punishment, I'd say my opinion is pretty solid.
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  154.  @OwenH16  Is that seriously all you can say? Defend your reasoning.
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  155. The death penalty does nothing to benefit society. How exactly does it benefit any more than life in prison does?
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  156. Why? Because he understands the uselessness of the death penalty and believes most people can be rehabilitated?
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  157. Abolitionist here. Death penalty is useless and non-benefical.
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  158.  Lizzie Allen  Not the majority of them. At least not the ones I interact with on a daily basis. And I live in a DP state
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  159. No actually. A majority are remorseful.
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  160. I'm against the death penalty because it does not benefit society in any way. If you cannot trust a system to be fair, don't live in that country or work to change it.
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  161. No its not. Its human instinct if your not a sociopath. A person who hurts someone else is almost always a victim in their own right. That doesn't justify actions, but it gives insight on sympathy or empathy
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  162. Things change. The death penalty does not provide anything beneficial to society. It's too expensive, it's not a deterrent and it doesn't lower crime rates.
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  163. You have that so ass backwards it isn't funny.
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  164. Aren't you gonna be shocked when most victims are anti-death penalty...
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  165.  @chriscodling6573  That's fine. It's no big deal. It's good to have these kinds of conversations
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  166. Except its a fact that its not a deterrent to crime. If it were, death penalty countries and states would have lower crime rates than those without it. And that isn't true.
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  167. If you don't believe criminals can be successfully rehabilitated into society, you're delusional. Technically, if you've ever been pulled over for speeding, you've committed a crime.
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  168. While Manson was certainly fucked up, he had nothing to do with Tates murder. That was all Tex Watsons fault. However, appealing to emotion is not a reason to have a law.
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  169.  @brittneystewart723  Manson didn't tell anyone to kill them. You can't control people with drugs. Watson did what he did because he didn't get the drugs he wanted and lost it. Again, not saying he wasn't a criminal. But he wasn't a murderer and was not insane.
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  170.  @brittneystewart723  Legally, he wasn't insane. And no. Manson didn't want to start a race war. That's a bunch of bullshit made up by Bugliosi. Once again, you cannot control people with drugs. Don't buy into all the crap you hear. I'm not saying he didn't start it. He was the head of the family. But he had nothing to do with the murders and didn't ask them to kill anyone. Just because Manson was found guilty doesn't mean he was. He wasn't even at the residence. These murders were Tex Watson, not Manson.
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  171. I disagree with your opinion. I don't the capital punishment is justice at all.
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  172. Nah fam.
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  173.  @minniebabi1555  Not a joke. I'm 100% serious
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  174.  @minniebabi1555  Seriously. Abolish capital punishment. It does nothing beneficial to society
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  175.  @minniebabi1555  And laws should not be based on your emotions alone.
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  176. You do realize more money is spent on the death penalty, right?
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  177. Then people would be bitching when most of them would be anti death penalty. While I know not true for everyone, I have never met a victim that is pro death penalty.
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  178. The point was you can remove these monsters without a death penalty.
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  179.  @MariaLopez-jd4tt  Being punished doesn't mean we need a death penalty. Even if we grant the premise of justice, which is entirely subjective, its not practical.
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  180. We don't know that since crime reporting is unverified in China and Iran. And you're seriously comparing dictatorships to the US? You know they don't report on the murders THEY commit, right?
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  181. You dont pay nearly as much for a lifer that you do for a death row convict. Most murders are crimes of passion, done in the heat of a moment. Those killers aren't psychos, and they are sorry. And you very much can reform from that. There is no practical reason for the death penalty
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  182. I'm against the death penalty. I'll gladly have an intelligent conversation with you.
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  183. And how is capital punishment any kind of suffering? Especially when its usually a needle in the arm, and a completely painless procedure as long as staff don't fuck it up?
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  184.  @madtrain8515  I think its useless qnd unbeneficial
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  185. Except a majority of people who have lost people to violent offenders are anti-death penalty. What about them?
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  186. Humans should have sympathy, regardless of who it is for. The mentally abnormal people are the people who have no sympathy, even for the criminals (who usually are victims on their own rights) There is nothing wrong with that
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  187.  ⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻  And yet some are still exonerated years later.
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  188. No. It provides no benefit to society.
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  189. Except it's NOT a deterrent, its MORE expensive because of the appeals process, and it's NOT justice.
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  190. Because the death penalty isn't a burden to society with how much it costs?
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  191. That black and white way of thinking is why we have a broken criminal justice system. An 18 year old who has sex with his 17 year old girlfriend/boyfriend is a rapist in many states.
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  192.  @Madame_Kerny  That actually is true. If you are under the age of consent, then you CAN'T give consent. My point was that your comment is a slippery slope.
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  193. Because laws should be based on practicality and logic, not emotion driven conclusions.
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  194. Hope you're aware that capital punishment is a bigger waste of money
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  195. You spend more money to execute.
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  196. Do you not realize that it's cheaper to give someone a life sentence than a death sentence?
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  197. I am a victim, and I would never support the death penalty. I don't know if you are talking about these people specifically, or anti-death penalty advocates in general, but the facts and logic? They side against the death penalty.
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  198. Most people are against the death penalty for good reasons. If it did something beneficial that life in prison couldn't do at a cheaper price, most would be for it.
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  199.  @IssyFishyy  Because it does? Others may share it. I don't deny that. But you can only really speak for yourself.
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  200.  @axellarsson7447  No, I don't think he could be "forgiven" nor put back into society. Though I also don't think he needed to die. It provided nothing beneficial.
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  201. Most often. You're quite ignorant if you believe that most cops are evil.
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  202. You are right that prison should be used to rehabilitate someone. However, the death penalty is even more of a waste of money than life imprisonment. If it provides no benefit to society then it should be done away with. The death penalty should have went out with the dark ages
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  203.  @MyChannel-eo8ic  No, all 5 methods of execution practiced in the United states are more expensive than life imprisonment. If your law is not practical nor provides any benefits, it should be done away with.
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  204.  @MyChannel-eo8ic  We still have hanging, and it is still more expensive than life in prison. Life imprisonment is practical and does benefit society, though I would prefer we focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment.
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  205. You also do not have the right to end another person's life because they took it away from someone else. Or at least you shouldn't.
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  206. Would that include statutory rape?
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  207. Thats a terrible example to be honest. Sure, he was a drug lord, but he brought wealth to many good people and killed only other killers.
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  208.  @thefantorangster2491  No, I'd suggest you do some more research on him. He donated a lot of his drug money to local charities and made a lot of innocent lives better. This is why the police had a hard time getting rid of him, because a lot of people actually liked him and wouldn't say anything. Even though I don't believe in the death penalty, a better example of someone who deserved it would be someone like Ted Bundy or Jeffery Dahmer.
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  209. 1: You can punish the criminal without resorting to costly methods of capital punishment that could go to much better uses. 2: The family does not get to choose whether or not the convict receives the death penalty. That is up to the jury and the prosecution. The family can only influence the decision of the prosecution. 3: Self-appointed vigilanteism is still murder, and regardless of what he was doing, it was not her place to take vengeance on him.
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  210. Neither is killing their killer
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  211. They are also a slim minority of the population. Also "psychopath" is no longer a legitimate term used. They are on the ASPD spectrum.
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  212.  @Z33Garage  The reason execution is so expensive has nothing to do with "mishandling". It has to do with a person's right to life and a fair trial. How do you justify innocent people being put to death?
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  213.  @Z33Garage  So you seem to have the assumption that everyone convicted is indeed guilty. I brought up costs because you made the argument that they live off taxpayers money, which is true. But death row inmates live off more.
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  214. We still have a firing squad. Still more expensive than life in prison.
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  215. Actually, thats not exactly true. Where the research shows the bias is with the victim. You are more likely to receive a harsher sentence if the VICTIM is white than black.
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  216. In order for you to make that statement you first have to prove that: first, they are misinformed and second, they are liberal. This is not a Republican issue. It's an issue across the political field. I am not a liberal, and yet I do not support the death penalty. Not on any moral grounds, but because it does nothing beneficial to society. It's more expensive, it's not a deterrent and it doesn't lower crime rates.
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  217. I'm against the death penalty in any situation.
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  218. You dont have to be innocent or naive to be against the death penalty
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  219. Nope.
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  220. Serious answer: Because hating or killing them does nothing to bring my mother back, nor does it take away my pain.
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  221. As a victim, you should never have a right to revenge.
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  222.  @cannednolan8194  I disagree. Victims should not have privilages others do not. Yes, it is up to the victims to forgive or not. But no one should have the right to take someone else's rights, legally or otherwise.
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  223.  @ajj148  If you think prisons aren't bad, you've never been to one. Sure, sometimes the courts mess up, but that goes both ways. By the way, those two boys you're talking about were juveniles. The brain does not operate the same way as a child that it does an adult.
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  224. The death penalty is not justice. Its revenge.
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  225.  @allizappamcminn4376  Revenge on the condemned. "You took something from me so now I'm going to take something from you". That's not justice.
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  226.  @allizappamcminn4376  You clearly know I mean in terms of the family.
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  227.  @allizappamcminn4376  I was speaking from the perspective of the family, because they did take someone from them. The victim can't comprehend justice. They're dead. The death penalty is for the satisfaction of the family, not the victim.
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  228.  @allizappamcminn4376  There is no purpose for the death penalty. That is my debate. You cannot speak on behalf of the victim. They're dead and are incapable of caring. The whole reason for the judicial system is to protect the living and console those left behind. It does NOTHING for the dead.
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  229.  @allizappamcminn4376  And why should they get the death penalty? What purpose does it serve? It doesn't deter criminals. It doesn't lower crime. Its 3 times the cost of keeping someone in prison. So what does it do?
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  230.  @allizappamcminn4376  And what is that purpose? You have yet to answer that. I know what being murdered means. I work as an FI. I see murders every day.
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  231.  @allizappamcminn4376  That's called an "appeal to emotion" fallacy and should not be the basis of a law. The word "justice" is a subjective term.
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  232.  @allizappamcminn4376  But the word Justice means "doing what is just". That depends entirely on what your opinion of justice is. You dont seem to understand what the word "subjective" means. And it is an appeal to emotion. There's no practical reason to have capital punishment. People want it because they are emotional. "He/She SHOULD be killed"- That is an opinion. Not a fact.
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  233.  @allizappamcminn4376  That's a subjective opinion. Not an objective fact.
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  234.  @allizappamcminn4376  Yes you are by saying the death penalty is "justice" That's appealing to your emotion.
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  235.  @allizappamcminn4376  Once again, that's an opinion. Most victims, like myself, and their families do not believe that.
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  236. @Ally Zappa McMinn Because the "blue whale being the largest animal to ever live" can be proven to be true through empirical evidence. You claiming to "know" something does not make it fact. Justice is an emotional concept, not a factual one. Your. Opinions. Are. Not. Facts.
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  237. @Ally Zappa McMinn Fact: a thing that is indisputably the case. a piece of information presented as having objective reality Justice is NOT OBJECTIVE REALITY! Your definition of justice depends entirely on circumstances. Therefor, the death penalty being justice is an opinion, as it cannot be proven objectively.
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  238.  @allizappamcminn4376  That's still an opinion.
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  239. Because most killers DON'T have zero empathy.
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  240.  @SooBeautyFull  No, I don't believe that. And neither do the majority if victims. Capital punishment isnt justice. Its revenge
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  241. Neither of which the Bible is against, funnily enough.
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  242.  @Jdrbb123  Ummm no its not? The punishment for simply sleeping with someone out of wedlock is death. The punishment for heresy is death. And multiple times did God condone abortion. The only one who has selective reading is you.
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  243.  @Jdrbb123  I didn't manipulate anything. I can recite them to you exactly as written. You're manipulating them to make them seem justified or less evil, because it paints your God in a better light
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  244. Sociopath is not a term used anymore, but being optimistic doesn't make someone naive.
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  245.  @jadenl9253  We now use an ASPD spectrum (anti-social personality disorder). What we use to term as psychopaths and sociopaths now are classified on this spectrum. No, I don't believe he believes that. What he was referring to is the vast majority of people we can rehabilitate but just don't. You can be optimistic and still be a realist.
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  246.  @jadenl9253  Clinical and criminal psychologists. Sorry, I use the term we to define the group as a whole. And its because I work in the field for a living. But if you don't believe me, the work is out there. Its not like sociopaths don't exist. The community just no longer classifies them under that name.
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  247. A subjective opinion is not grounds to base a law on.
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  248. Anddd thats called an argument from emotion fallacy. Being against capital punishment actually has facts behind it, unlike flat earth.
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  249. Then there's no reason to have a death penalty, because any CJ or Law student will tell you there is never 100% evidence and that confessions can be false.
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  250. As a victim, it is disrespectful to me to speak on my behalf. I am capable of making that decision for myself. I decide myself whether they deserve a second chance to me. You make those decisions for yourself when you have experienced it. We have moved past your dark age mentality. Just because something was stolen from me does not mean I now have the right to steal it from them.
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  251.  @somethingoranother2112  You made assumptions as well and you are a complete hypocrite. You prentended to speak on everyone's behalf. I never spoke for anyone but myself. I make the decision on whether or not someone deserves a second chance. No one has to agree with me. But this argument is irrelevant to whether or not capital punishment should be abolished.
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  252. No. But they also don't deserve death. Thats why life in prison exists.
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  253.  @sheskindameansometimes7541  Then stay out of thr legal system.
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  254. 1 count of rape would in no way get you the death penalty. That is not a capital offense.
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  255.  @akutenshi6946  Rape in my state is a minimum of 35 to life.
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  256. Deserving os something in a subjective opinion is an argument from emotion fallacy. Capital punishment, as with any law, should be practical. And its not.
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  257. Punished, however, does not have to mean execution. And there is tons of grey area.
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  258. It doesn't need to exist. It's not a deterrent.
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  259.  @fabio11826  The word "justice" is a subjective term. I don't believe it is "justice" to execute someone. I believe it is revenge. Capital Punishment is a strictly emotional law, and that shouldn't be how things are done. If there is no practical reason for a punishment and it does nothing to benefit society, it should be done away with. What benefit does it provide for society, other than justify people's revenge?
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  260.  @fabio11826  jus·tice /ˈjəstəs/ noun 1. just behavior or treatment. How is that objective? What is "just behavior or treatment" is influenced by people's feelings an emotions. So no, its not objective. You're not making excuses nor are you letting them off lightly just for not killing them. I would argue Death Row and killing them is actually the better of the two options, based on inmates I have spoken with. It is emotional. It does nothing beneficial that life in prison doesn't do. What benefit does it provide for society, other than justify people's revenge?
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  261.  @fabio11826  Guess what dear? The law isn't based on your religion anymore. People have differing religions and view. The word "objective" doesn't appear in the bible. It's a prosecutors job to only prove that a person is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. If you want to be mad at someone for sentencing, blame the judge. It's ultimately their decision. Most "civilzations" don't have the death penalty. Often, these countries have the lowest crime rates. Tell that to the people who have been innocently executed. It's too expensive, its not a deterrent, it doesn't lower crime rate, and it risks executing an innocent. It does not benefit society other than putting another family through your own pain.
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  262. HT T  So your word of truth is the Bible? Fine. That's certainly not the case for everyone and is not the established definiton of the word objective. It always comes down to the judge. There is no trial without the judge. The jury only finds a client guilty or innocent and only suggests a sentence. It's the judge who decides what the punishment is. A lot of trials are bench trials, meaning only in front of a judge without a jury, for this reason. 140 out of 195 recognized countries have abolished the death penalty. That is not a minority. South Korea, one of the richest countries in the world, doesn't have the death penalty. Thank you for proving you can't do any research. Part of that is because of their culture and their economy, not because they perform capital punishment. Switzerland, the country with the lowest crime rate, has no death penalty. It's 3 times the cost of keeping someone in prison for life. That's 1% too many. 1 in 25 people on death row are innocent. Morality is once again a subjective concept. I would be lying if I said I don't feel empathy for them, but no. I work in the criminal justice field as an FI and have never gotten so much as a speeding ticket.
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  263. HT T  The Bible is a series of stories that cannot be proven. We can prove other planets exist, you cannot prove the supernatural. That's why it's supernatural. You can say I'm wrong, but I'm not. Belief is a matter of opinion. Their decisions often influence the judge, but the judge ultimately makes the decision. You can't make up fictional factors. That's lying under oath. That's why the defense and prosecution work hard to find juries in favor of their side, if it does go to trial. 106 have abolished the death penalty for any crime. 140 have abolished capital punishment as a practice, even though it's legal. So no, the majority of countries do not practice the death penalty. Japan isn't nearly as peaceful as you claim. While the homicide rate is nearly the same as Switzerland, Japan has an organized crime problem with the Yakuza, especially with drugs, arson, and trafficking. Do some research. Do they deserve It? Possibly. That's a matter of personal opinion. I do care about those victims lives. That's why I got into this profession. I lost a sister to a murderer, and have lifelong disabilities because of injuries I sustained. I feel empathy because I'm human, and a lot of criminals are victims themselves. Sorry, but it's a fact that morality is subjective. And I do get to influence law. In fact, I'm one of the reason my state is overturning the death penalty
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  264. HT T  Funny about the evidence supposed is that they never let an unbiased third party study their findings. I wonder why. There are no eyewitness accounts, as even the earliest books of the bible were written 30 years after Jesus' supposed lifetime. It's on their books yes, but is not used anymore. Let's even take your 106. That is still the majority. There is organized crime in every country, but the overall crime rate in Switzerland is much lower. However, correlation does not equal causation in all cases. No, I don't have Stockholm Syndrome. And no, I never said they shouldn't be judged or punished by society. I just don't think death is the way to go. That's not productive of fair to put another innocent family through the pain I went through. I'm from Indiana. We're in the process of overturning our death penalty.
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  265. That doesn't address how a death penalty makes a society safer. It absolutely doesn't.
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  266. It wouldn't lower crime, and that has been proven. By the way, does that apply to any violent crime? Like fighting for instance? Go back to the dark ages.
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  267.  @Sieghart.  You said violent crimes. And when we did have quick death sentences, it also didn't lower crime and we executed a lot more innocent people. The system we have in place is due to us making those kinds of errors. Prisons dont have quotas. That's a myth people like to throw around. You know nothing of the prison system. By the way, it's common knowledge that capital punishment is more expensive than keeping someone in prison for life. The criteria needed for someone to get the death penalty is already extremely high. You have a right to an appeals process regardless of what you are convicted of, and 4% of those on death row are innocent of the crime that put them there. Focusing on rehabilitation instead of punishment is how you do that, not threatening everyone with death.
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  268. Sorry, but more of my tax dollars go to put them to death and I'm not okay with that.
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  269. These things have nothing to do with each other.
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  270. Why? It serves no purpose.
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  271. What will killing them accomplish? That doesn't bring the dead back either.
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  272. So why give the murderers the easy way out? Time is so much harder when you're forced to live it. Most criminals argue that death is better than being locked in a cell all day with no freedom.
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  273. Emotions do crazy things to people, both innocent and guilty. That should be taken into account.
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  274. That should not be how the criminal justice system works.
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  275. I think you need to go back to the dark ages.
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  276. @Humanity Galatica You wouldn't know a fallacy if it came up and bit you. And yes. "Killer" is very vague.
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  277. @Humanity Galatica You want an honest answer? Depends on the person. I could agree that someone may deserve death, and still argue against capital punishment.
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  278. @Humanity Galatica No it isn't. You can have both an emotional and a logical opinion on something. I could grant you the emotional without the logical. But I suppose some people just consider everything black and white.
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  279. @Humanity Galatica Logically, I'm against the death penalty. Emotionally, I can understand why people believe in and support the death penalty. Does that make more sense? I don't think anyone has an inherent right to life.
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  280. @Humanity Galatica My first value is practicality. I don't really think emotions belong in debate, though I understand why you cannot seperate them. I have no idea why you think I'm somehow different for seperating logistics and emotions.
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  281. @Humanity Galatica My beliefs are not emotional. I am against the death penalty because it has no practical application, even if I can grant the premise that a criminal may not "deserve" life. I do not find life sanctimonious.
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  282. No, life in prison isn't what crowds prison. Housing non-violent offenders and those with minor charges are what crowds prisons. Also, you understand that we spend way more money on execution than we do on a lifer, correct?
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  283. Not supporting a useless, expensive system doesn't mean you're naive.
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  284. Life in prison is not a second chance.
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  285.  @karinhonma4384  People who are sentenced to life in prison do not get released.
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  286.  @karinhonma4384  Perhaps they do deserve death. But that is a subjective opinion. That has no basis in lawmaking.
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  287. Because thats not how any justice system should work.
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  288.  @reasonablemagic  So is yours. Laws should be practical.
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  289.  @reasonablemagic  The valid reason would be where is the line drawn? Should a soldier be executed for killing innocent people to stop a criminal? Your original question is a slippery slope fallacy.
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  290. You clearly misunderstood what he meant. He wasn't talking that literally. The problem with us is we TREAT all murders like psychopaths and people are mentally ill. And they're not. Our justice system doesn't focus on rehabilitation like it should.
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  291. Except its not needed. And it very well could be abolished. It offers no benefit.
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  292. That's the whole problem. You should have empathy for everyone involved. Most criminals are victims in their own right. That's not an excuse, but it's not backwards to think that way.
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  293. How do you know he was guilty? Courts can and have been wrong. This is why vigilantism is a bad idea. People will find a way to justify it.
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  294. While I certainly disagree with "anyone can be rehabilitated" most murderers actually can be. Most murders are 2nd degree.
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  295.  @gingersperg  Actually, no it doesn't. The cost of one inmate on death row is nearly twice that of an inmate in the actual prison. Its a well known fact that a death penalty conviction costs more by the time the convict is executed than they would have if you had kept them in prison for their natural life.
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  296. You have that backwards. Give me one non-emotional argument for capital punishment.
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  297. And you know that how? Most murders are 2nd degree, not 1st.
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  298.  @Xaelium  That doesn't mean we need a death penalty. Most murderers are victims themselves, and while it certainly doesn't excuse them, most do desire to change.
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  299. Then don't pay taxes. I don't want my taxes to increase because you want to enact revenge on someone, since it costs way more to execute someone.
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  300.  @joshflores6605  I wonder why they get unlimited appeals. Probably to avoide putting innocent people to death.
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  301.  @joshflores6605  I never said they are all innocent. I am a forensic investigator. This is what I do for a living. The bottom line is there are innocent people on death row. Yes, sometimes the jutice system fails. But this is why we have life in prison. There is no reason to put them to death.
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  302.  @seabear2494  Not those its meant to deter. It only deters those who wouldn't have done it anyway, regardless of a death penalty.
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  303. No one is pro-abortion, nor do you have to be liberal to be pro-choice or anti-death penalty. I'm against the death penalty because of facts about it
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  304. What about them? That is not an argument for or against capital punishmentm
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  305.  @DPLan913  That would be a fallacy though. Specifically an argument from emotion fallacy.
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  306. I disagree. Depends on circumstances.
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  307. The statistics disagree with you. 5 countries with the lowest crime rate: 2 employ capital punishment. 5 states with the lowest crime rate: only 1 has the death penalty.
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  308. We don't need capital punishment even in an imperfect world.
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  309. Depends on the person. Some killers have years, even decades between their spans. And some molesters have done it, served time, and never done it again.
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  310. And if killing them brought the dead back, you would have an argument. But it doesn't. Inflicting the pain you felt on others is wrong, no matter how much the condemned deserve it.
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  311. That's not an argument.
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  312. Actually, the jury is also responsible for giving a sentence based on prosecution. The judge meerly has the final say on sentencing.
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  313. Absoultely not true. I work with evil people. I just understand that the death penalty does nothing to benefit society, and the money going into it has better uses elsewhere
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  314.  @emd2831  You believing someone deserves the death penalty and not being able to control your emotions doesn't mean that should dictate the law. I understand what pedophilia does to children, but killing the pedo doesn't magically cure their pain. No, I don't agree. Not because I don't think pedophilia is wrong, but because I think with logic and reason, not emotion.
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  315. Falicies should not make up the law.
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  316. Why is that? Defend it.
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  317. You understand the bigger drain on our economy is capital punishment. Its more expensive.
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  318. How about seeing it from another perspective was what, I believe, she was getting at. People who were forced to become Nazi's or risk getting them and their families slaughtered.
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  319. His point was that most can. Not all, but most.
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  320. You won't see a decrease in crime with the death penalty. Its not a deterrent.
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  321. Very few people are psychopaths. Thats a diagnosed mental illness. They also don't die without a funeral in all cases. Depends on if the family claims the body.
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  322. He had already admitted to what he did prior to his execution, even helping police catch other killers with his insight.
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  323. No, he shouldn't have. Because it wouldn't have done anything practical. Did he deserve it? On an emotional level, yes. But the laws should not be based solely on emotion.
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  324.  @mavasanaei6733  I know precisely what he did. That doesn't change my argument. Putting him to death would have done nothing. It would not have changed the past. It would not have brought those fetuses back. The death penalty is emotional grandstanding. Nothing more.
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  325.  @mavasanaei6733  He wouldn't care. He was psychopathic. It wouldn't show him anything. If it does nothing beneficial to society, it shouldn't exist.
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  326. You're not naive just because you dont support a useless system
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  327.  @killax27  He didn't say everyone can be helped. But a majority can.
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  328. Most killers are not cold blooded as most murders are 2nd degree.
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  329. No actually. Very rarely does that happen, especially in more severe cases. The justice system is not infallible. And to be honest, Charles Manson was just a drug addict and good at speaking. He never killed anyone.
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  330. Uhh...if you manipulated people, lied, and stole, then you are still a manipulator, a thief, and liar. Those labels do not change. However, everyone is 2 of those 3 things. And being those things don't inherently make you a bad person. Your growth is the fact that you can own up to your mistakes.
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  331. Why are you pro death penalty?
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  332. And I think that a person who commits vigilante justice deserves to be prosecuted. You do not have the right to violate anothers rights, even if yours were violated. There is no practical reason for the death penalty.
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  333. Are you assuming that people don't think of the victim's family's first?
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  334.  @haza123b4  That doesn't make them right. But that is my opinion. Capital punishment is too expensive, its not a deterrent, and it doesn't lower crime rate. I also don't think putting 1 innocent person to death is worth killing 1000 guilty people.
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  335.  @garylouk8776  Its not everyone's opinion. Its certainly not mine. No, I don't think a serial killer should get the death penalty.
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  336. Not deserving a second chance is entirely subjective. You might believe that, but others do not. Laws should be practical and logical, not based solely on emotion.
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  337. Considering you can't even spell psychologist, I highly doubt you are educated enough to speak on that subject.
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  338.  @kaizal3161  It relates directly. Your spelling gives off an impression of your intelligence. I highly doubt you know anything about how a rape victim's mind works or how psychologists actually deal with them.
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  339.  @kaizal3161  No it isn't because everyone's psychology is different
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  340. Because pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with capital punishment based on definition.
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  341.  @tmurphy9869  pro-life only has to do with euthanasia and abortion. I'm personally anti-death penalty and pro-choice
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  342.  @tmurphy9869  Life has no inherent value in my opinion.
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  343.  @I3igI3adW0lf  Thats because you don't understand the difference.
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  344.  @I3igI3adW0lf  Pro-life (which I'm not by the way) has nothing to do with capital punishment. Abortion is not murder by the way, based on the definition of murder. I am pro-choice but against capital punishment. That is not hypocritical.
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  345. I don't want pro death penalty people put to death. I just want them to see the other side.
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  346.  @bradleymcdonald6273  No, as in the other side of the argument. As to why we don't need a death penalty and that its ineffective.
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  347.  @bradleymcdonald6273  Being dangerous to others does not equate to necessity for a death penalty. Thats what life in prison is for.
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  348.  @bradleymcdonald6273  I would put him in prison for life. I personally think the death penalty should be abolished
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  349. The death penalty isn't needed and you pay more in taxes for better privileges to death penalty convicts. Gee, I wonder why they go back to crime? Could it be that the system makes it damn near impossible for a convict to find a home or a job?
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  350. That is strictly an argument to emotion fallacy. That has no basis in law. If a law isnt practical, it should be done away with.
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  351. Thats a mighty big fallacy you got there.
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  352. That's the biggest emotional fallacy.
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  353. Pro death penalty people are ridiculous, since they can't argue from facts.
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  354. Well considering one side of the argument is ENTIRELY BASED on emotion...
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  355. Then ask your questions. I'm from the anti-death penalty side of the equation
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  356. Laws should not be based on visceral emotional responses
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  357. The death penalty isn't a deterrent. That has been continuously disproven.
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  358.  @freedomdividendnews5042  Its only a deterrent to those who would never do the crime in the first place. Once again, capital punishment as a deterrent has been continuously disproven.
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  359.  @freedomdividendnews5042  I have no problem with assisted suicide.
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  360. In your subjective opinion.
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  361. No there doesn't.
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  362. As an empath, its natural to empathize and/or sympathize with other human beings, even when they have done wrong. Whether or not they "deserve" it is subjective and irrelevant. If a service provides no benefit to the people, it should be done away with. Those people are often victims too.
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  363. Because there are no pro-death penalty arguments other than emotional ones.
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  364. But then people get pissed when victims say the same thing, because they can't understand it.
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  365.  @christinagaller4374  I have. So I can only speak for myself.
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  366. Its not a good "scare tactic". This has been continuously disproven. Those who are afraid of capital punishment are only those who would never do the crime in the first place. It does NOT deter criminals. There is no reason to hemorrhage money in a system that is ineffective
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  367. As a sexually abused child, I entirely disagree
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  368.  @TheTyler701  A. Putting them to death is more expensive and B. Life in prison prevents it from happening again. No one has ever escaped a maximum security prison.
    1
  369. The 4% is a US statistic, not a worldwide one.
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  370.  @youawesome2068  No...? I mean, I don't care if adults want to play in bounce houses. I just understand that capital punishment does nothing.
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  371. Actually, I tend to find that people who support the death penalty look at from an outsider perspective. If you knew anything about being a victim, a majority of them are anti-death penalty. As a victim, you CANNOT put yourself in my shoes until you understand what I have gone through. I will never punish another innocent family for what their relative did to me. That's not fair. If you don't want someone else to have the joy of being able to move on, then you're a psychopath who isn't capable of understanding how I feel.
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  372. Not true at all. I'm against the death penalty and pro-choice (because pro-abortion doesn't exist) Its not the same thing. One is a constitutional right and one is simply not beneficial. That doesn't make you a hypocrite. Especially since you can be pro-choice but be anti-abortion.
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  373. Why?
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  374. I am anti-death penalty because aside from an emotional fallacy, there is no logical reason to have one. Its more expensive, its not a deterrent, it does not lower crime rate and there's no risk of you killing an innocent person.
    1
  375. There is also no value in killing them.
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  376. ...Nope. it didn't benefit society any more than putting him in prison.
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  377. Actually, there is. States without the death penalty and those that focus efforts on rehabilitation have LOWER crime rates.
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  378. Whether or not they deserve it should not give us license to do it. It isnt practical. That's why prison exists.
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  379.  @Furylamb  Prison is always enough. People like you who want to make it about revenge are the reason its "not enough". If a law provides no benefit to society, it shouldn't exist.
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  380. Go to North Korea then.
    1
  381. No second chance does not equate to death
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  382. People are actually psychopathic are a minor percent of those in prison.
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  383. Sounds like we should gun down all military then.
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  384. Probably because then the pro-death penalty side would have no argument.
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  385. Just because one thinks a person doesn't deserve a second chance doesn't mean that opinion is universal or correct. This is why we don't agure from feelings.
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  386. No it isn't. Its ridiculous to have the death penalty.
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  387. That does not mean we should have a death penalty.
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  388.  @JustSaiyanDude  That is an argument from emotion fallacy and has no place in our legal system. The death penalty should be abolished.
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  389. Not comparable. One is sentient life and the other is not. One is violating the right to autonomy and one is not. One is beneficial and one is not.
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  390. So you're fine with paying three times more to have them executed?
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  391. To answer your question, no. I don't think he can be rehabilitated back into society. And whether or not he deserves a second chance is irrelevant, because its subjective. The problem with your case is its a fallacy. An appeal to emotion fallacy.
    1
  392. Hypocrisy at its finest.
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  393. Why is it not discused that it costs millions more to put a person to death? Of course there's an argument economically, but it sides with people opposed to capital punishment.
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  394. That isn't what he said. Getting a 2nd chance at life =/= being released from prison. Thats your interpretation.
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  395.  @Thomas-os2jk  No. But it also doesn't deserve death.
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  396. Because there is no reason for its existence. It does nothing beneficial. Too expensive, doesn't lower crime rates, not a deterrent etc.
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  397. Thats a double hypocritical standard.
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  398. You pay more in tax dollars for an execution then you do to keep them in prison for life.
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  399.  @jamiereed254  And we executed people for no reason.
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  400.  @jamiereed254  No one deserves death. Period. You don't show killing is wrong by killing. Thats asinine. These people can be rehabilitated.
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  401.  @jamiereed254  Sure they can't, but they aren't the majority. Majority can, and thats not an opinion. Its fact. And I'm proud more and more states are axing the death penalty. You can be punished without being put to death.
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  402. And that is what we call an "appeal to emotion" fallacy. Just because you believe that, doesnt make it true.
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  403.  @--confide-in-the-tide  That's your opinion, and I can understand why you feel that way. However, that's all it is. An opinion.
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  404. As someone who also works in a prison, we dont actively try to rehabilitate and integrate. Only a few percent can't, and that's not an argument for capital punishment.
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  405. When we did use it, it still wasn't a deterrent. Someone who commits a capital offense does not care about the consequences. Hell, some believe death is a better path. Those laws are in place because you have completely screwed up the moment you execute an inncoent person.
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  406. You realize more of your tax money goes to house them on death row, often in better conditions yes?
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  407. They've done that already
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  408.  @Cotac_Rastic  Hahaha. You actually have NO idea how prison works do you?
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  409. Uhhh "decided on by people who aren't overwhelmed by emotion?" Sorry, but that's all capital punishment is.
    1
  410. They don't live in our society. Thats what prison is for.
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  411. As a victim to a murderer who watched her sister die, I think that's a psychopathic way of thinking.
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  412.  @plexpopper8763  You don't believe they deserve a second chance just shows me you seem to lack empathy for those that are sorry. That's psychopathic to me.
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  413.  @plexpopper8763  Nothing. I believe everyone deserves forgiveness, perhaps because I've been victimized by someone. I don't believe anyone's life is worth more than another. I also don't believe laws should be based on emotion. The death penalty does nothing to benefit society. But we have different opinions. And that's okay.
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  414.  @plexpopper8763  I understand that not everyone feels the way I do. Most people, including myself, were homicidally enraged. But in the majority, that feeling passes. It isn't fair, in my opinion, to force the pain inflicted on you onto more innocent people. Most of the condemned have a family as well, a family who did nothing to hurt me. I believe, on an emotional level, this is why most victims and their families don't agree with capital punishment. That, and they think it's an easy way out.
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  415. Neither does killing the perpetrator.
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  416. Why? There's literally no benefit other than maybe some sick justified revenge feeling.
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  417.  @whitewhitewhite2446  Nope, not true. Completely disproven in fact. Capital punishment is not a deterrent to violent crime. Crime rates are higher in both states and countries with capital punishment.
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  418.  @whitewhitewhite2446  That's your opinion and your entitled to it. I do wonder how you feel about Texas overturning many of its death penalty convictions however.
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  419.  @whitewhitewhite2446  It is an opinion. Facts need to be shown through observation.
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  420.  @whitewhitewhite2446  Yeah no. That can't be shown, because that is an opinion.
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  421.  @whitewhitewhite2446  It is an opinion.
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  422. But no one should have walked. Because the death penalty has been proven to not be a deterrent.
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  423.  @zemaneiro292  You already can be arrested for jaywalking. Its illegal. But most people don't enforce it. That is not what deterrent is. Deterrent: a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something. Capital punishment does not work this way. If it did, crime rates would be lower in death penalty states, because people would be afraid of execution. But its not.
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  424.  @zemaneiro292  I live in the US. My point is that capital punishment is not a deterrent. I'm not sure if we agree on this ot not.
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  425. Should that apply to accidents and the military then?
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  426. Deserving of something doesn't mean an unbeneficial objective should be enforced. The death penalty does nothing.
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  427. Thats despicable. America was founded on fundamental rights. The fact that you would be okay with the state violating those rights is appalling. Why should we obey the Constitution if the government does not?
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  428.  @MyMarnus  Yep. Not on moral grounds, as morality is subjective. I'm against it as it has no practical use and does not benefit society.
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  429.  @agustina7652  And what do you say to the hundreds of innocent people who have been put to death?
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  430. That's not an answer because citizens are divided.
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  431. No one should get the death penalty.
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  432.  @Saza9991  Absolutely true. Does not benefit society.
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  433.  @Saza9991  So does putting them in prison.
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  434. Prisoners certainly do not share the same opinion.
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  435.  @ahmedalbannah6251  Since my sister was raped and murdered, I stand by the decision I made. Life in prison.
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  436. As a rape victim, no. Absolutely not.
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  437. I assume this is a high school essay. You'd get absoutely poor marks in a college level CJ class.
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  438. Girls are sterotypically smarter. If there's no benefit to a law for society, it should be done away with.
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  439.  @operatorbutt4265   Because I see no logical reason to have them executed. I do not want to abolish capital punishment for morality. I want to abolish it because it isn't practical and doesn't benefit society. Use up prison space? How about stop putting people in prison for non violent offenses or focusing on rehabilitation for those that can and want it? You claim no one wants them back in society, but that has not been proven. "They should not have a second chance." That is your opinion. That is not the opinion held by everyone. Arguing against the death penalty while supporting long sentences for those who cannot be or do not want help is not hypocritical. You lack the understanding of what the prison system was originally meant for. Quicker and more merciful? Have you seen a botched execution? That is not quick, nor is it merciful. Of the top 5 countries in 2018 with the lowest crime rates, 2 have capital punishment. Of the top states in 2018 with the lowest crime rate, only 1 has the death penalty. So tell me again how abolishing the death penalty leads to a skyrocket in crimes. Also, no it's not. It is cheaper to keep someone in prison for life than to execute them. This is common knowledge.
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  440.  @operatorbutt4265  If it's not common knowledge, it's because people do not care enough to research what their argument is before they make their point. That is no ones fault but their own. Whether or not the death penalty should be in place is an opinion. But whether or not the death penalty is more expensive is a fact.
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  441.  @operatorbutt4265  Can I prove that putting someone to death is more expensive?
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  442. Two better words Not beneficial
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  443. 1. It does not provide any more public safety than locking them up for life would. The death penalty being justice is entirely subjective, and should not be the basis for a law. Many victims and families are anti-death penalty. 2. Again. What you view is evil is entirely subjective. I could argue putting a criminal to death makes you just as guilty of killing. Most murderers are not a danger to society because most murders are 2nd degree, not 1st. We should focus more on rehabilitation. It would lower the recidivism rate.
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  444.  @brodhax6148  1. It isnt their choice. It's up to the prosecution. Do they often take the families wishes into consideration? Yes. But ultimately they have the final say. You're need for vengeance should not dictate a persons life, no matter how "evil" they are. That's wrong. The law is not intended to be based on feelings. It should be based on its benefit to society. 2. Death penalties are rarely handed out anymore anyways. So why is more of my money going to house someone who will have their sentence commuted anyways? Evil is a subjective concept, and 1 in 25 people who currently sit on death row are innocent. I didn't say there was a gray area. But why should your subjective opinion dictate the law? No, it shouldn't be up to the victims family. And yes, I know what it's like. Everyone who genuinely wants to change should get the opportunity to get help. If the victims family demands death, they should go right on the gurney with the condemned, because they clearly are incapable of thinking rationally or feeling empathy. We have a word for that: Psychopath. If a law is not beneficial or practical, only based on overwhelming emotions, it should be done away with.
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  445. No, the deterrent is because of a different culture.
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  446.  @emo81309  No, thats a lie. You confuse culture with religion. Not only that, Saudi Arabia is a country known for human rights violations. You are a criminal for speaking out against a faith. Of the 5 states that have the least crime, 1 has capital punishment. Of the top 5 countries with the lowest crime, 2 have capital punishment.
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  447. Law enforcement does follow the law in most cases. The problem is one bad apple makes everyone look bad.
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  448. Except that isn't true of all people.
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  449.  @MyChannel-eo8ic  Which would still be more expensive than life in prison, unless you skip the appeals process. In which case, youd just raise the risk of executing an innocent person.
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  450. Thats called an argument from emotion fallacy.
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  451. You're honestly an idiot if you believe the crime rate of Saudi Arabia is 0.
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  452. Who are you to judge who deserves to die? Thats such a subjective mindset. If I think you deserve to die, should you then? Be rational.
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  453. Thats not true at all.
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  454.  @pamelasmith1924  Whether or not they deserve death is not up to you. Its up to the person they harmed. I've been a victim, and no. I don't feel the same. And neither do most victims. That is an absolute lie. You can only speak for yourself
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  455. Most murderers are sane.
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  456. Your entire comment is a fallacy. An argument from emotion fallacy. Laws should be based on benefit for society. Not feelings.
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  457. The dead can't comprehend nor understand "justice". Its not "justice" to put another family though the pain you went through. That's called revenge. Emotion should not be the sole basis for a law. Laws are ment to do something productive and beneficial to society. Capital punishment does neither.
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  458. No it isnt. It does nothing beneficial
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  459. It's not naive to be against a useless system or understand that MOST murderers can be rehabilitated.
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  460. That is not how death row works at all.
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  461. Would you like someone else to try and change it? Can you give one non-emotional argument for being pro capital punishment?
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  462. I respectfully disagree.
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  463. No such thing as "absolutely no question". One of the first things they teach you in any criminology class and in law school.
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  464.  @WomenofHighValue  That may be true of some. But not all.
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  465.  @WomenofHighValue  Not necessarily. Some of them grewup with fine parents, but had troubles in their early adult life. Absoultely not true. Ted Bundy had a normal childhood. Paul Bernado had a normal childhood. And apart from his parents divorcing, so did Jeffery Dahmer. Mental instability can come from a host of problems. Drugs, identity, bullying, loss, or mistreatment by loved ones.
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  466. Neither does putting them to death.
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  467. The death penalty is never justice. Justice is not revenge.
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  468.  @huh6561  You could say that, but you would be incorrect. What they deserve? Who decides that? I don't think they deserve death, so why does your opinion trump mine? Its always revenge. You are killing them because they took something from you. That doesn't benefit society. The death penalty should be abolished.
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  469.  @huh6561  No, I don't think my opinion is better then mine. Whether or not you think someone deserves something should not dictate the law. I define revenge as its definition, because thats what it is. That is the only reason we have capital punishment, because there is no logical reason to have it.
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  470. Logic should take precedent over emotion. The bottom line is there is no reason for the death penalty. 1. More expensive than keeping someone in prisoner for life (in the are of between $700k to $3m depending on state) 2. Is not a deterrent. This has been consistently proven. (It only deters those that would have never considered it in the first place) 3. Does not lower violent crime rate. (Violent crimes, especially homicides, have been consistently lower in non death penalty states since the early 90's) 4. Risk of executing the innocent. (1 in 25 people who currently are on death row are innocent of the crimes in which they were sentenced)
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  471. If you cannot bring yourself to empathize with both sides, you are mentally ill as well. And the first rule that any criminal justice course and ESPECIALLY a law school course will teach you is there IS NO METHOD to prove guilt without a doubt. That simply doesn't exist. Stop paying MORE tax money on a useless system that provides no benefit.
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  472. Argument from emotion fallacy should not dictate the law.
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  473. Thats very narrow minded.
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  474. Why should I have to spemd 10x the money to put a person to death?
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  475.  @ProjectBlackoutPro1  No its not. And then has been continuously disproven. A death penalty conviction ranges between 700,000 and 3 millon dollars more than a life inmate, mainly because of the appeals process.
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  476.  @criticclips1560  So in other words, fuck the Constitution? How would you like being arrested and charged with something and having YOUR due process taken away?
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  477.  @criticclips1560  Because everyone who has been found guilty and sentenced WAS guilty right? 1/4 of the people who sit on our death row are innocent of the crime that landed them there, and you would have them put to death?
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  478.  @criticclips1560  It already does, and yet people still slip through.
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  479. Why? Because he understands that capital punishment is impractical?
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  480. You don't have to be liberal to be anti death penalty.
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  481. Life isnt fair, and we must deal with that. To force another family to experience what you have is wrong, in my opinion. That, and capital punishment isn't practical.
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  482. Agree on capital punishment. Not abortion. Abortion is a right. We should work on slowly fixing the problems that lead to most abortions.
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  483.  @RemyLebeau1985  Thats a subjective opinio . Exposing a child to abuse and neglect is also morally wrong. Also abortion is never convenient.
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  484.  @RemyLebeau1985  Adoption should be looked into, but isn't always available and isn't free. Plus it doesn't guarantee quality of life
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  485. So why do we have a death penalty? Its not a deterrent.
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  486. You can. Depends on the person. By the way, psychopath is not a term used anymore. Its a spectrum of ASPD.
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  487. I don't believe more of my taxes should go towards your emotional revenge.
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  488. We don't need the death penalty.
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  489. You pay more for the death penalty than you do for life in prison.
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  490. Your whole statement to me seems like either you were never in a prison at all or you were in a low or medium security facility. Or maybe were just in a different place. Death Row inmates are often given keys to their own cells and are not even close to restricted. Hell, here they're given xboxes. If they got sentenced to life, they wouldn't be in general population. That is for low risk offenders. They would be sent to segregation. I am of the strong suspicion you have been to jail, but not prison. Because you seem to have 0 knowledge of what a prison actually is and the different levels of one.
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  491. Someone who has ASPD (since we no longer use the term psychopath) doesn't mean their violent. A good friend of mine is a diagnosed, for lack of a better term, sociopath.
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  492. No you shouldn't. But you don't have to. Thats what prison is for.
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  493.  @jefroko5464  The death penalty is not practical and should be abolished in my opinion.
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  494.  @lovelyuntamed  I disagree. I think it should be abolished.
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  495.  @lovelyuntamed  As you said, this comment section is open.
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  496.  @lovelyuntamed  Yep. I do think it should be abolished
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  497. It's not a deterrent. This has been proven. Homicide rates are consistently lower in non death penalty states, and have been since 1990.
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  498. You can have that terrible punishment without a death penalty.
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  499.  @nicolerodil2057  No one has ever escaped a maximum security prison, which is where the worst of the worst is held. That's not an argument when it does not happen.
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  500. Because the death penalty has no practical uses, and not all of us only think and react out of emotions.
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  501.  @something3867  No, I dont. I dont believe in Capital Punishment
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  502. And hasn't reoffended since. Most killers are not crazy, and the bottom line isnt about whether or not they deserve it. It's about whether its practical.
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  503. The way to stop madness from happening is to focus on rehabilitation for those who can feel empathy and sympathy, not punishment. That only proves to the criminal what they did was necessary.
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  504. The cost argument has been debunked over and over. You pay more to put them to death. There is very rarely undeniable evidence. The man didn't say everyone can be rehabilitated. But most can. His point was we should be a country focused on rehabilitation, not punishment. You're not any safer whether a serial killer is on death row or in prison.
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  505.  @Ferbbie  Ted Bundy never escaped from prison. He escaped from jail. Those are two separate facilities. The death penalty offers nothing beneficial to society that life in prison can't, so it should be abolished.
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  506.  @Ferbbie  No. I'm not saying there is a 0% chance for someone to escape from prison. However, this is extremely rare. Especially with the technology we have now. Most escapes that are successful happen at minimum security facilities, and criminals are usually caught between 24 and 48 hours after escape. You're not any more at risk with a prison inmate than a death row inmate. There's no benefit to keeping them alive, other than it saves money. It's just not practical to put them to death. Its too expensive, it's not a deterrent and it doesn't lower crime rate.
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  507.  @Ferbbie  Indeed. It's mostly because a death row inmate is granted unlimited appeals to overturn their conviction, whereas a prison inmate is limited. It takes so long because of the risk of putting an innocent person to death. Most cases are not as cut and dry as Ted Bundy.
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  508. Someone not deserving to live doesnt give us a right to end their lives and harm other innocents
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  509. No it isn't.
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  510. No, it should be about whether it's NECESSARY. Deserving it is a matter of personal opinion.
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  511. That's not true in many cases. Usually a dog is put down only if it cannot be proven that it is up to date on its shots, or if its known to be aggressive. I got a chunk taken out of the back of my leg by a neighbors Doberman, and the dog wasn't euthanized. And yes "fancy" 9x13 cells with a mattress and a toilet.
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  512. The death penalty is not a deterrent. That has been continuously disproven.
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  513.  @societyslasthope8902  lol, never like my own comments. I don't care about likes. There used to be a way you could see who liked your comments. I'm not sure if you still can.
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  514. And there's no such thing.
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  515. The death penalty has never and will never be a deterrent for crime.
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  516. Funny. I did a speech on why we should do away with the death penalty.
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  517. If you aren't willing to empathize with both parties, then quite frankly, you are somewhat psychopathic. Being a victim does not give them an excuse to hurt people, but to hate those who do wrong does nothing for them or for yourself. No one deserves to be banned from happiness. That was one of the principles our country was founded on. Not all criminals can be helped, but most can. And to punish those who want and need help only degrade them further. If your only argument for capital punishment stems from emotions, you'll never win the argument.
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  518.  @sarahmontgomery6403  I didnt say you were. I said that's a psychopathic characteristic. The fact that they do bad things doesn't justify their actions, but to completely ignore the fact that they're victims too is wrong to me. They do deserve punishment. But they also deserve help. Capital punishment is such a useless system.
    1
  519. You do realize you pay more in taxes to put someone to death, correct? A psychopath or a sociopath is incapable of feeling remorse. So what will death do? Nothing.
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  520. Doesn't fail nearly as much as people think it does. No, she should not take matters into her hands.
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  521.  @unpopulartea1220  Absolutely not true. Those who blame the justice system are the first ones who cry to ua when they need help. Can and has this system fail? Absolutely. But it does not fail as often as you think it does.
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  522.  @unpopulartea1220  I admitted it does fail. It also fails innocent people as well. However, my point is it doesn't happen as much as people portray it does. I work in this profession for a living. I know it has flaws.
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  523. Except that doesn't work. And I'm sick of my tax dollars going to fund your revenge.
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  524. So I should get the death penalty because I don't believe we should have one? Thats irrational.
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  525.  @DRIVEN2WIN  Thats why life in prison is a thing. We don't need a death penalty. We need a reformed prison systen
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  526.  @DRIVEN2WIN  Because it costs less than execution.
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  527.  The Real World  That's because people like you are incapable of seeing you can sympathize with both.
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  528. The death penalty is not a deterrent. It doesn't matter what you think. That is a fact, not an opinion.
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  529. Most victims I've spoken to, myself included, feel that way too.
    1
  530.  @LS-tk7hp  That's you opinion. There are plenty of victims out there that feel that of a convict can change and learn to help instead of harm, then their loved ones death has a positive impact.
    1
  531.  @ghfferzd9242  Except statistics do agree with me. If that were true, states with the death penalty would have lower homicide rates, which isn't true.
    1
  532.  @cornbeefcommie7519  No. I have common sense.
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  533. Sure. Let's pretend that's real. I'm assuming your referring to abortion? Abortion has nothing to do with capital punishment. And sure. Lets pretend that people sent to maximum security prisons escape. Oh wait. That doesn't happen.
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  534. I think its insane to only base a decision on like that on subjective deservement.
    1
  535. Then you clearly haven't spoken to a lot of people who are against the death penalty. I don't need to believe they are "warm and kindhearted" to understand they don't need to die. There is no reason for the death penalty. Put them in prison for life. Capital punishment is not a deterrent and never has been. Nor will it be.
    1
  536. The death penalty is outdated and unnecessary.
    1
  537.  @radioactivedynamite  Simple. Capital punishment is more expensive and wastes more money than life in prison.
    1
  538.  @Speed_and_Power  I could make the same argument for people on death row.
    1
  539. In your subjective opinion.
    1
  540.  @thamas_420  Your original comment was vague
    1
  541. No it's not. But it offers insight. If you cannot be empathetic with people, even those that have done atrocities, stay out of the criminal justice system.
    1
  542. Then your argument is invalid, because it costs more money to put someone to death than it does to keep them in prison for life.
    1
  543.  Joshua Chamberlain  As someone who works in the criminal justice field, I can tell you with certainty that they are absolutely not afraid of the death penalty. They do not care. Some even want it. Which would negate it being a punishment. As for justice, I certainly don't think of it like that. How is capital punishment justice? It doesn't heal the pain, nor does it bring the dead back. Too expensive and not a deterrent. Abolish it and focus on rehabilitation.
    1
  544.  Joshua Chamberlain  No. I don't believe that. But not everyone thinks like me.
    1
  545.  Joshua Chamberlain  That capital punishment is justice.
    1
  546. Except the death penalty doesn't decrease the murder rate. It's only a deterrent to those who were never going to commit the crime in the first place.
    1
  547. So...you're a walking contradiction.
    1
  548. @Qui Tell that to the innocent people who are executed.
    1
  549. Most people can't empathize with a child molester, unless they themselves are a child molester. However, you can sympathize with them. It doesn't make you any less sympathetic towards the victims.
    1
  550. Why give them a life sentence? Because its cheaper and execution is a slippery slope. Putting them to death does nothing beneficial.
    1
  551. Thats called an argument from emotion fallacy.
    1
  552. Have pro-death penalty people ever heard that psychopath and sociopath doesn't exist as a term? These are people on an ASPD spectrum, and that doesn't make them inherently violent. Some of your close friends are probably sociopaths. Rehabilitate those you can. Lock up those you can't.
    1
  553. Because it's too expensive, it's not a deterrent and it doesn't lower crime rates. My sister was raped and murdered, and I advocated against the death penalty, as did my mother. So no, we aren't hypocrites.
    1
  554.  @spiredsword52e24  We still have hangings and firing squad and it's still too expensive.
    1
  555. No its not. And its been continuously disproven that it is. It deters no one but those who would have never committed in the first place. It does not deter criminals.
    1
  556. You realize that not everyone on the ASPD spectrum are violent right?
    1
  557.  @Michael5221  Ahh no problem.
    1
  558. It's not being a bleeding heart to understand the death penalty is a useless system.
    1
  559. Really? That's a disgusting view point.
    1
  560. You would pay 3 times more to put them on death row where they have more privalges. So what exactly is your argument? You ultimately pay less for a lifer than you do for a condemned.
    1
  561.  @hi5_centipedes874  And you understand why they wait so long on death row correct?
    1
  562. The husband would not have gotten the death penalty. Capital punishment is not necessary or beneficial and should be done away with
    1
  563. Laws should be practical. The death penalty provides no benefit and should be abolished.
    1
  564. And thats not a good thing in my opinion. I don't think there should be a death penalty in any circumstances.
    1
  565. As someone who's sister was raped and murdered in front of her when she was a child, I still heartily oppose the death penalty. As does nearly 65% of victims.
    1
  566. It deters no one. Only those who would not have committed the crime in the first place. There is no gene that makes you a killer and putting them in prison removes their potential to do it again (assuming the prison is compotent).
    1
  567. Being redeemable or not is not the issue. If a law is not practical and does not benefit society, it shojld be done away with.
    1
  568.  @yashsalve7702  I'm one of those people totally against it. It should be abolished. Not because of a moral reason, but because it isn't practical.
    1
  569.  @yashsalve7702  Luckily, that is how the world works. Most modern countries do not have capital punishment, and we are eradicating it in the states.
    1
  570.  @sarahebert2510  More expensive, not a deterrent, doesn't lower crime rate, risks putting an innocent person to death. What practical reason is there for the death penalty.
    1
  571.  @sarahebert2510  Yes it is more expensive. You are not taking into account the death row and unlimited appeals process. Depending on the state and circumstances, taxpayers pay about a million dollars more for an execution than a life inmate. Congrats on proving you didn't do any research.
    1
  572. I'm against the death penalty for practical reasons. It's too expensive. It's not a deterrent. And it doesn't lower the crime rate
    1
  573. You've never been to a state prison, have you?
    1
  574. As a victim os a heinous crime, you are severely misinformed. Nearly 70% of victims are against the death penalty. Myself included.
    1
  575.  @chlorophyll6154  Or maybe I'm a rational person who understands the death penalty does nothing beneficial.
    1
  576. DNA is never totally irrefutable. It can be altered or forged.
    1
  577. What does that teach? They already know they're crime isnt accepted. They simply don't care.
    1
  578. There is never 100% evidence and confessions can be gotten under duress. There should be no death penalty.
    1
  579. Why do you people always bring up abortion? Its actually irritating.
    1
  580. Nope. I wouldn't. That isn't a lie. You can look up plenty of testimonials of victims who advocate against capital punishment.
    1
  581. Depends on what you mean by 2nd chance
    1
  582.  @sophierr967  No. Not at all. That doesn't necessitate death though
    1
  583. Well some of them were honestly.
    1
  584.  @nonstop9907  Its still a poor example to show that killing is wrong by killing.
    1
  585.  @nonstop9907  There's not that much difference. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. Murder is simply unlawful killing. In my opinion, it is wrong. But I don't argue from a moral perspective. Executing criminals isn't justice, to me, nor does it do any more good to the public than keeping them in prison. And actually, you pay more in taxes to execute them. I thought this was common knowledge.
    1
  586. And then you wouldn't be around to protect your daughter anymore.
    1
  587. I personally think people like you have a skewed outlook on human beings and would generally rather hurt and punish than help. It's not naive to believe people in general can change.
    1
  588. Argument from emotion fallacy. Emotions should not be the basis for a law.
    1
  589.  @unicorndreams8289  No. Laws should be practical. If there is no practical reason for the death penalty, it should be abolished. And there is none. Its too expensive, its not a deterrent, it doesn't lower crime, and its not worth executing an innocent person.
    1
  590.  @unicorndreams8289  Death row/unlimited appeals.
    1
  591. Most law enforcement does. Its foolish to allow a few bad apples to speak for everyone.
    1
  592. There is never "zero doubt". Such a thing does not exist.
    1
  593. The death penalty is useless and provides no benefit to society or people. It should be abolished.
    1
  594. Welcome back to the dark ages.
    1
  595. So I guess by that statement, being vague and devoid of nuance, every soldier who has killed someone should die. Every person who has killed on accident or in self defense should die. See what happens with vague statements?
    1
  596. While I agree with you, how are you pro-death penalty if "facts don't care about your feelings?" Facts do not align with a pro capital punishment position.
    1
  597. Most murderers, however, are 2nd degree. Not pre meditated. They do care, they want help, and they are sorry. Psychopaths aren't the majority
    1
  598.  @88feji  You can have consequencrs for actions without dragging yourself down with it. That's just unhelpful to you. And those people are idiots and know nothing.
    1
  599. Keeping them in prison also stops them from doing that. Also, it costs less to house a prisoner than to execute them
    1
  600.  @roach7017  You pay more as a taxpayer to put someone to death and revenge is never justice. Why do you think its justice for families? Perhaps for you. But don't pretend you speak for the majority.
    1
  601. How is not believing in the death penalty defending the accused? What will the death penalty accomplish? It won't bring the dead back to life.
    1
  602. @Sylveon You spend more on death penalty convictions than life in prison. So how does it save money?
    1
  603. @Sylveon Life without parole does exist you know.
    1
  604. @Sylveon No one has ever escaped from a federal prison. And by that logic, since convicts spend 20 years on death row, they can escape from there as well.
    1
  605.  @emmysenn8750  Not from a max federal prison. Jail and court is not the same as prison.
    1
  606. Subjective opinion should have as little say as possible in law.
    1
  607. A killer isn't necessarily a sociopath. The parkland shooter is also not a sociopath. He is bipolar and schizophrenic. He cannot be rehabilitated on the same level as someone who was not suffering those illnesses, but he clearly does feel emotion.
    1
  608. Death penalty convictions don't always have to be murder. There are capital offenses that don't involve murder.
    1
  609. "I legit have no idea why someone would be anti-death penalty" -More expensive -Not a deterrent -Doesn't lower crime rate -Risks executing an innocent person -Doesn't bring the dead back to life. Putting yourself in the families shoes? You do understand that most families ARE anti-death penalty, correct?
    1
  610. Because not everyone's psychology works the same. I'm a victim who is perfectly content knowing the man who raped, permanently disabled, and murdered her little sister is sitting in prison for life. No, prison doesn't give a chance for a escape. Not when it comes to crimes like these.
    1
  611. Go back to the dark ages.
    1
  612. I don't think most people understand that makes up a very small percentage of the population of prisons.
    1
  613.  @gracescamander7186  Do you realize how ironic it is for you to state that people who are anti-death penalty are speaking from emotion when your whole argument is from emotion? How about looking at actual facts that a majority of victims and their family are against the idea that capital punishment is justice? How about arguing for or against capital punishment through logic and reason? Oh wait. You can't. Because then you couldn't be pro death penalty, as it has no logical reason behind it that cannot be fixed or debunked.
    1
  614. Both of those examples are fallacious though. This isn't meant to be a neutral debate. I will never be for capital punishment and firmly believe that it should be abolished. Period. The point of a debate isn't to find middle ground between debaters. Its to allow those with neutral opinions to pick a side.
    1
  615. No such thing
    1
  616. Very few death penalty cases are dealing with psychopaths or sociopaths, so that's not an argument.
    1
  617. Just because YOU believe they warrant death doesn't mean YOUR opinion should dictate the law. Not everyone believes the way you do.
    1
  618. That is your subjective opinion. That is not an opinion held by all.
    1
  619. Forgiving someone is not the same as advocating against them getting the death penalty. While I know not everyone is me, I "forgave" and advocated against the death penalty for the man who murdered my sister. It was more for me than him.
    1
  620. So your reason for supporting the death penalty is a fallacy.
    1
  621.  @plek3431  Thats called an argument from emotion fallacy and is your subjective opinion.
    1
  622. No, it wouldn't work here. And try tazing someone strung out on meth. It does nothing. How about just abolish the death penalty and focus on rehabilitation.
    1
  623. For not believing in a dark age revenge system?
    1
  624.  @ARC--ms1se  "You took a loved one from me, so let me punish you by taking your life from you". That is the textbook definition of revenge. The death penalty provides no benefit to society and laws based strictly on an emotional response should not exist.
    1
  625.  @ARC--ms1se  I understand that. That doesn't stop the prosecution from taking the families wishes into consideration in pursuit of the death penalty. Not deserving to live is an entirely subjective opinion and should not be the basis for laws.
    1
  626. No such thing as proved beyond all doubt. If you have a death penalty, you will have innocent people die to it.
    1
  627.  @gp556by45  One of the first things they teach you in any law school or any criminal justice course is that evidence can, and has been, wrong. That is why a court finds you guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and the evidence unearthed during the appeals processes is what cements your guilt or innocence. Video can be edited and doctored. I'm in no way implying these cases were. But a video alone will not get you a conviction.
    1
  628. I'm against the death penalty. Tell me why you're for it.
    1
  629. Someone being a serial killer doesn't mean they have no empathy.
    1
  630.  @celesbianmegastar  I dont believe in argument from emotion. I'm against the death penalty for practical reasons not emotional ones.
    1
  631.  @MoY1600  Because there is no such thing as concrete evidence. That'll be one og the first things you learn in law school or a college CJ course. Things can be wrong. Evidence can be doctored and tampered with. Self defense is another story. But whether or not someone deserves something is subjective and should not be the foundation of any law.
    1
  632. I have a feeling most people, regardless of what side they're on, have never experienced something horrid like this. I personally have, and I'm strongly against the death penalty.
    1
  633. Disagreement with capital punishment or saying people can change is not defending murderers and rapists.
    1
  634.  @jonathanross7324  No, you inferred that.
    1
  635. The pro side has no facts. The death penalty isn't a deterrent, its more expensive, it risks executing innocents. What facts are you talking about?
    1
  636. Because "guilty beyond reasonable doubt" always means guilty? So how do people get their sentences overturned?
    1
  637. No, but that should be taken into consideration. It's called a mitigating factor.
    1
  638.  @Somewheresouthbar  Not if the guards are doing their job.
    1
  639.  @Somewheresouthbar  You've clearly never worked in a prison. Shakedowns happen every day, and rarely do inmates harm other inmates or staff. It certainly happens, but not often
    1
  640. Its not necessary. At all. Deserving of something is a biased, subjective, emotional fallacy that has no place in law.
    1
  641.  @stuff5757  Depends on why they are a thief. Being punished by going to prison is not equatable to a death sentence.
    1
  642.  @mythicalme6613  Thats called an argument from emotion fallacy.
    1
  643. People slip through the cracks. Also, sometimes we don't get the whole story, so we paint a picture and then fill in the gaps. And thats not rational.
    1
  644. Its more expensive to execute them. And no, it doesn't bring closure. It doesn't bring the dead back.
    1
  645. So then explain to me what that would do? How would killing her rapist take back the rape?
    1
  646. Way to be progressive with that dark age mentality you got there.
    1
  647.  @stephen6397  You have no real facts, as you claimed in your previous post that not only did PA "axe the death penalty", which is a lie, but that crime has risen in states that have gotten rid of the death penalty, which is also false. Crime has no more risen is states that have abolished capital punishment than those that have capital punishment. And the fact still stands that murder rates as a whole have been lower in non death penalty states since 1990. By the way, liking your own comment doesn't make your point any less of a lie.
    1
  648.  @stephen6397  1. Yes you did, because I can see the username of people who have liked your comments just by hovering over it. 2. The homicide rate in Pennsylvania has dropped over the last 3 years. 3. The death penalty in general is rarely used, but to say it deterred crime is a lie. The violent crime rate dropped after states abolished the death penalty, then rose and fell at regular rates. A person who does a crime worthy of the death penalty doesn't care about the consequences, and the risk of death does not stop people from being criminals. I don't refuse to see the truth. You refuse to admit that you were wrong. It's not ass kissing criminals to be honest, nor am I triggered. I'm simply calling you out for your unreasearched misinformation.
    1
  649.  @stephen6397   1. You have done 0 research then and that is not my problem. Both property crime and violent crime fell in 2016, 2017 and again in 2018. So over the last three years, it has not remained constant. 2. No. I don't just accept what I want. I work in the criminal justice field. This is my job. 3. If you really believe that, then provide evidence. Leading criminologists disagree with you. 4. Again, provide evidence for this so called fact. Because once again, non-death penalty states have had consistently lower crime rates. 5. A criminal is anyone who has committed a crime. You ever gotten a ticket? Criminal. Ever jaywalked? Criminal. Drove without a license or permit? Criminal. You cannot lump all criminals into one category. That is lunacy. Redivicism rate is so high because we strictly punish those who have minor offenses. They struggle to find employment, have relationships, and turn to crime because they don't have any other alternative. We focus too much on punishment and not enough on the rehabilitation of those that can be. No, I'm not triggered. I'm passionate about this subject because it's my career.
    1
  650.  @carteroxley2979  Because I like the name? I work in forensics and am interested in the occult.
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  651.  @carteroxley2979  I do both. I both work in the lab and present in court along with the prosecutor.
    1
  652.  @carteroxley2979  I have a bachelors is criminal justice and forensic science. We are working more on the lab but its still my job to help with the prosecution. I'm working on my doctorate
    1
  653.  @carteroxley2979  Whatever you want to talk about
    1
  654. You don't lose your rights as a human because you violate someone else's. You lose privileges. Stop arguing from emotion. Its not about whether they "deserve to live". Its about whether putting someone to death is benefical for society and the family. And its not.
    1
  655. Subjective realism should not be the basis of laws.
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  656. Then my answer would be "Keeping an inmate on death row costs more than keeping them in prison, so I will take the prison sentence". I'd rather have more money to put myself through school, thank you.
    1
  657. Thats a weak argument, even for a fallacy
    1
  658. Why?
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  659. Psychopath is not a word recognized in psychology anymore. Those people now fall on the ASPD spectrum, and depending on where they fall depends on whether or not rehabilitation can be effective.
    1
  660.  @violetseven4485  Just because you don't care doesn't mean anyone else should.
    1
  661. Why do we need it? Other than an emotional response, can you provide any objective reasoning that we need it? Any facts?
    1
  662. And yet he helped the police catch numerous criminals, including the Green River Killer.
    1
  663.  @ScoopyScoops9  He didn't get a lower sentence. This was after he was on death row.
    1
  664. You don't have to put them to death to not give them a second chance.
    1
  665. You're not a criminal apologist just for stating facts and not supporting the death penalty. What's wrong with being empathetic towards another human being?
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  666. No they aren't. Psychopath isn't even a recognized term by psychologists anymore
    1
  667. 1. Prison capacity wouldn't be such an issue if prisons focused on rehabilitation and didn't have long sentences for non violent offenses, like drugs. 2. Appeal to emotion fallacy. Just because you believe they deserve it, doesn't mean your opinion should be law. Yes. Yes I would. Because the death penalty doesn't do anything productive for society. Crime, violent crime in particular, is at its lowest rate in 30 years. You should not make serious decisions if you are emotionally unstable at that point. You'd rather trade life in prison for capital punishment? How very middle ages of you. That's psychopathic in my opinion. You just want to see people die because you can't control an irrational fear.
    1
  668. JumpyMunkey91S  People who are actually psychotic cannot be rehabilitated. Psychosis is an actual diagnosed mental illness. A jury isnt picked by the city. Its picked by the defense and prosecuting lawyers. It's just supposed to represent the state. There's a lot of bias in juries, but that's neither here nor there. Defend someone how? Simply because I think they shouldn't be put to death? That's not defending them. If youd rather not see people die, then you wouldn't support a useless system that doesn't benefit society. Most of people in prison are serving less than 5 years for non violent offenses. Get rid of that and you would end overpopulation. Not only that, you spend 3 times more on execution.
    1
  669.  @munkey7879  Your entire post is just emotional grandstanding.
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  670. Wouldn't then, to be consistent, you have to apply that to soldiers?
    1
  671.  @remdog3134  Thats a very interesting perspective.
    1
  672. I thought it was common knowledge that the death penalty costs you MORE taxpayer money.
    1
  673. Yes. Because everyone convicted at trial is guilty right?
    1
  674.  @Moon_Mann11  I disagree. As someone who works in this field, very rarely are personal factors considered, especially for repeat offenders.
    1
  675. Umm no. No logical person who is against the death penalty thinks like that. I'm against the death penalty because its more expensive on my taxdollars. Its not a deterrent to violent crimes. It doesn't lower crime rates. And it risks executing innocent people. Whats not "realistic" is a society where we show that killing is wrong by killing.
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  676. Thats an argument from emotion fallacy and has no place in our law.
    1
  677. What makes him a liberal? Because he's against an expensive and outdated system that provides no benefit to society?
    1
  678. You are correct in saying the judicial system isn't always correct. Sometimes the innocent are punished while the guilty go free. But these mistakes are NOT a common occurance. Not everyone believes in revenge.
    1
  679. But, they're not objective. They depend on circumstance. They always will.
    1
  680.  @Nemesistyx  No, I do understand. The problem is you CAN'T see it objectively. Your emotions naturally play a part in your decision making, and the key is to reduce the amount of subjectivity and bias. But you cannot fully eliminate it. Naturally, such as in your example, you should hire someone best fit for the job. But you simply cannot work with a person in a business if you do not like them. You cannot be entirely objective. The key is to be as objective as possible. This is why so many people get rejected as jurors.
    1
  681. The death penalty is an outdated system that does nothing to benefit society.
    1
  682.  @theprincipalityofbelka4646  ...The average time on death row is 21 years. What the fuck are you on?
    1
  683.  @buzzlightyearlight1247  I'm anti death penalty because it does nothing benefical and isn't practical.
    1
  684. Who are you to decide that? You're feelings on that only really matter if you are the victim he or she harmed. Not supporting a useless system of revenge does not make you dumb
    1
  685.  @brandonali1452  Shouldn't be about whether or not they deserve it. It should be whether or not it benefits society. I lost my sister to a murderer, and have permenant disabilities because of it. I have forgiven him and advocated against the death penalty because it isn't justice in my opinion. You may think it's dumb. I think you're wrong.
    1
  686. If a law is not beneficial to society, it should be done away with, regardless of your emotional response
    1
  687. The reason they sit on death row for so long is because of the appeals process. Sorry, but executing 1000 guilty people isnt worth executing 1 innocent. There is no reason for the death penalty.
    1
  688.  @shredhead161  The cost of the execution isnt the problem. It's the appeals process. That's where it costs. I am not morally okay with executing 1 innocent person over 1000 guilty people. That's why they spend 15-20 years on death row. You call the whole system into question when you execute an innocent person. The trial is fair and speedy. But you have a right to appeal a conviction for whatever reason. It doesn't and shouldn't be a consequence.
    1
  689.  @shredhead161  People lie and doctor/forge evidence. Is this rare? Absolutely. But it has and does happen. That's why the appeals process is there. But regardless, it still does nothing beneficial. It doesn't lower crime rates and it isnt a deterrent. We should focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment
    1
  690.  @shredhead161  That's part of my job at times. It's one of the reasons I got into the Criminology profession. I'm not saying everyone can be rehabilitated. But we dont even try with the ones who honestly can. Some people are clinically psycho and sociopathic. These people cannot be helped. But most murderers aren't like that.
    1
  691. Laws should not be dictated by your emotions. I lost my 10 year old sister to a murderer, and I have permanent disabilities because of him. But my emotions shouldn't overrule my logic. If it doesn't benefit society, it shouldn't be used.
    1
  692.  @jordanhout252  Yes they should. And it's not logical to have the death penalty. It does nothing to benefit society.
    1
  693.  @jordanhout252  Because the Constitution says people have a right to life. And violating that right for someone else does not negate yours. That's an emotional response.
    1
  694.  @jordanhout252  I understand that it is impossible to have a law without emotion. The only reason something is a crime because of emotion. But a law shouldn't be SOLELY based on emotion. If capital punishment did something to benefit society, I'd support it. But it doesn't.
    1
  695.  @jordanhout252  The overpopulation in prison wouldn't be a thing if prison sentences were not handed down for minor offenses, especially ones that are not violent. It's too expensive It's not a deterrent It doesn't lower violent crime rate It risks putting an innocent person to death. There is no benefit.
    1
  696. Why not just abolish it? Can you provide a reason other than emotional?
    1
  697.  @MasterDrewboy  So emotional. I don't consider that justice. Thats just revenge. The opinion of justice is subjective.
    1
  698.  @MasterDrewboy  Then your simply using emotion to drive anger, and thats not what our laws are or should be based on.
    1
  699. There is no need for capital punishment.
    1
  700. Because the law believes in trying to build a society to help people. Thats how you lower crime rates.
    1
  701.  @kL-vs6wz  As someone who lost a sister to a murderous psychopath whose own mother committed suicide because of it, and who has lifelong disabilites, no. However, to think that executing them will do anything to help your family is emotionally based and frankly false. No amount of punishment will heal the pain and sadness. But killing them is not practical.
    1
  702.  @kL-vs6wz  I never did any of that. I simply answered your question from another person who knows the pain
    1
  703.  @kL-vs6wz  That was a general statement, not specific to your family. And in terms of it not being practical is just a fact. It is not my fault that you read something that wasn't there.
    1
  704.  @kL-vs6wz  It is cheaper to keep a person in prison for life than it is to put a person to death. This is common knowledge.
    1
  705.  @kL-vs6wz  It should be. I'm not snippy. I'm blunt. And when people make false statements without doing research, I get incredibly irritated. I'm sorry if that demeanor can come off as rude.
    1
  706. No psychiatrist will tell you no pedophiles can be rehabilitated, because that simply isn't true. Many actually can and some have. The death penalty offers no benefit to society and should be abolished.
    1
  707. Those people are the minority. They're psycho/sociopathic. That doesn't mean we should put them to death.
    1
  708. You do realize that the death penalty puts a larger cost on the taxpayer and makes the prison system harder...right?
    1
  709. Welcome back to the dark ages, where everyone got revenge on everyone else and we spent our time slaughtering each other.
    1
  710. No, not usually. Depends on the particular individual.
    1
  711. There is no such thing as absolute proof. You can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, but its never 100%.
    1
  712. You would have done very well in the dark ages. Most victims, myself included, are anti death penalty for a reason.
    1
  713. That's an argument from emotion fallacy and I don't want to pay more for them to be treated better on death row.
    1
  714.  @juswavvy9634  The death penalty does nothing beneficial.
    1
  715. England's decline had nothing to do with the death penalty. It had to do with laws that made it hard for law abiding citizens to find jobs and protect themselves. You would not see a decrease in crime if you brought back the death penalty. Of the 5 countries with the lowest crime rate, 2 have the death penalty. Of the 5 states with the lowest crime rate, only one has the death penalty.
    1
  716. Not everyone could. But most can.
    1
  717. Welcome back to the dark ages.
    1
  718. There's always a doubt. No such thing as 100%. Thats one of the first things you learn in criminal justice. By the way, no it doesn't work. It provides no benefit to society.
    1
  719. Very few people are like that. Good and bad are subjective in all honesty. But as someone who is a victim, I would not stand for the death penalty
    1
  720.  @GlowingSpamraam  In general, states that do not have the death penalty and countries that focus on rehabilitation have lower crime rates
    1
  721.  @IssyFishyy  indeed
    1
  722. So is the death penalty.
    1
  723. It doesn't have to. Abolish it across the board.
    1
  724.  @daniecliffe2847  I will grant you Ted Bundy. Jeffrey Dahmer actually was remorseful. Still, they are not the majority
    1
  725. Useless system. Abolish it.
    1
  726. H I It's too expensive. It's not a deterrent. It does nothing to lower crime rate. It does nothing beneficial to society.
    1
  727. As a victim, the death penalty should be abolished. For any crime. No matter how horrific. There are too many people who slip through thr cracks and killing a killer does not benefit society anymore than locking them away for life would.
    1
  728. That's a subjective opinion and shouldn't be the basis for our laws
    1
  729. The problem is our prison system is not designed to rehabilitate. If we actually focused on rehabilitation, you'd see results.
    1
  730.  @Mon.M0TIVATION  If a law is not beneficial, it should be abolished.
    1
  731. Because "convicted" ALWAYS means "guilty" right? There's never EVER been a case of WRONGFUL sentencing, right? You are exactly the type of people that need to stay the hell out of the justice system.
    1
  732. Yes, because lets pretend that innocent people don't get wrongly executed. Lets also pretend these two topics have anything to do with one another.
    1
  733. What is the practical use in that? What about people who are found guilty that are innocent?
    1
  734.  @inasseel4017  We shouldn't make laws that violate the very basis of the founding of our country.
    1
  735.  @inasseel4017  So in other words, there is no practical use. You are simply acting according to emotions. Also no. The death penalty is not a deterrent. This has been proven time and time again.
    1
  736. No. No I wouldn't. Perhaps you would in the heat of the moment, but most victims are against the death penalty for a reason. Not all killers are aware. A majority of homicides are "heat of passion" kills. Perhaps you may believe that, but that is your subjective opinion.
    1
  737.  @daanimeking4206  Once again that is your subjective opinion, and you are entitled to it.
    1
  738.  @daanimeking4206  Yes. In fact, I am. I argued against the death penalty for the man who murdered my sister and left me with permanent disabilities.
    1
  739.  @daanimeking4206  Its fine. I'm just against it for practical reasons. We all have our views.
    1
  740. No. No I don't.
    1
  741. "The world doesn't function on emotions" Thats all the death penalty is. It doesn't benefit society and is not practical.
    1
  742. Thats a terrible standard to live by. A hypocritical one too.
    1
  743. Nope. Talk to actual victims before making that assumption.
    1
  744.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  Nope. And I'll never be
    1
  745.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  Because it does nothing for society.
    1
  746.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  And thats something that can be done without the use of the death penalty.
    1
  747.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  Its too expensive, its not a deterrent, it doesn't lower the crime rate, and there is no making up for putting an innocent person to death. It isn't useful or practical.
    1
  748.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  It doesn't work. That has been continuously proven. Actuallt focusing on rehabilitation has proven to lower the crime rate much better than execution.
    1
  749.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  No one is born a "menace of society". Menaces are created. The vast majority of people CAN be rehabilitated. And for those who can't be, we have life in prison.
    1
  750.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  Then that's because you think one dimension, and I would say that makes you a shallow person.
    1
  751.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  No, it implies that IF you think that way, that would be my response. Do not try that "doesn't get a joke". I actually KNOW people who believe that way.
    1
  752.  @superbitesizedbuckets2451  Which is fine. But I know people who literally believe that babies and young children should be banned in public. They actually despise them.
    1
  753. Why is it important? What benefit is there?
    1
  754. I work in as an FI for a living, and I don't believe in the death penalty. I am well aware that evil people exist. I just know putting them to death isn't practical or beneficial.
    1
  755. Because you don't lose your human rights just because you steal someone else's. This is not the dark ages.
    1
  756. You say that as if everyone who is on death row is actually guilty, when we statistically know that isn't true. So how do you justify the killing of an innocent person?
    1
  757. Why are you pro death penalty at all? There is 0 reason for having it. "Can't be forgiven?" Who are you to make that decision? You weren't affected by these killers. You are strictly using an argument from emotion fallacy.
    1
  758. You do realize that with our system, you pay more taxdollars to execute them than you do to put them in prison for life, correct?
    1
  759.  @tigersteeth29  Its not the injection. It's the appeals process. And to lower the appeals raises your risk of executing an innocent person.
    1
  760.  @tigersteeth29  And the imperfection of the justice system is one of the reasons I cannot stand with the pro capital punishment group.
    1
  761. The death penalty is not a deterrent to criminals. This has been continuously disproven. It only "deters" those that would have never comitted the crime in the first place.
    1
  762. You do realize that people are prosecuted BASED on their intent during a crime right? Thats why there's a difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder.
    1
  763. Because capital punishment is more expensive.
    1
  764. "You cant just take someone's life". If you believe that, and you support capital punishment, you're a hypocrite.
    1
  765. I would like to see the evidence of "thousands" of those convicted of 1st degree murder getting released, especially in developed countries. I don't doubt that some have, but I feel like you're pulling that number out of your ass.
    1
  766.  @mikker29y  Even if we're talking over "centuries" that number is still low. Centuries ago, you just would have been executed for 1st degree murder. No when people talk about how many people have been wrongfully executed, they are talking about only in the US (usually) and only since the death penalty has been reinstated. If we're talking centuries, the number of wrongful convictions is in the thousands.
    1
  767. Tell that to people who kill who are mentally ill or handicapped.
    1
  768. Execution is NOT cheaper than a life sentence and that is very easily debunked. Those who actually get the death penalty feel no guilt in a majority of cases.
    1
  769.  @JTStonne  You aren't just paying for the cost of the execution. You pay to house the death row inmate and the unlimited appeals offered to them.
    1
  770. You make an ignorant statement that has been debunked countless times. While I have no problem with you believing in the death penalty, to say it is "correct ground" to be pro-death penalty and that "the death penalty is needed" is a claim you must back up with evidence that you do not possess. The fact remains that capital punishment is not a deterrent, does not affect crime rate, and is more expensive than life in prison.
    1
  771.  @MrMcHoonter  Yes, because I know that doesn't happen. No one has ever escaped a maximum security prison, which I know is where they would be going. I could ask if your comfortable knowing they could escape from death row. Your questions are invalid, because they depend on the idea of escape. But then I could turn around and as the same for death row.
    1
  772. Thats called being a hypocrite.
    1
  773. So waste more taxpayer money to put them to death? Makes sense..
    1
  774. You dont have to forgive. You shouldn't be pushed to forgive. But you also shouldn't want to put another innocent family through the pain you went through
    1
  775.  @cloroxbleach5159  He can pay without being put to death. You have killed someone. You've just gone about it legally.
    1
  776.  @cloroxbleach5159  A prosecutor doesn't seek the death penalty without speaking to the family. So you did kill someone. Just legally.
    1
  777.  @cloroxbleach5159  That may be your opinion, but is not an opinion shared by everyone. Regardless of how you want to spin it, you are putting another family through the same pain you went through. I think that's ethically wrong. But we have different opinions.
    1
  778.  @dymuzalonmateeth1725  Thats...literally not what he said.
    1
  779. Death row has never been a deterrent. That is an absolute lie. Crime, especially homicide, has been consistently lower in non death penalty states since the 90s.
    1
  780.  @clementine7655  https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty
    1
  781. You realize you pay more in tax payer money to execute right? I'd rather spend less, thank you.
    1
  782. And what benefit does that provide?
    1
  783. Your opinion on whether or not someone deserves death should not dictate the law.
    1
  784.  @spiredsword52e24  I don't care if people have opinions. What I care about is people thinking their opinion should dictate a law when their opinion doesn't serve a function.
    1
  785.  @spiredsword52e24  "I support the death penalty for rapists and cold blooded murderers" That would be letting their opinion dictate the law. "They should die because I think these crimes don't deserve help."
    1
  786. And yet capital punishment costs three times as much. So what's the argument?
    1
  787. The death penalty is never necessary. Facts are not on your side there. He could be put in prison for life and no one else would need their throats slit. By the way, prison doesn't help anyone psychologically.
    1
  788.  @charliethomas3214  Self-defense has nothing to do with capital punishment. 2. We change people all the time when you put time and effort into rehabilitation.
    1
  789.  @charliethomas3214  Capital punishment is death by the state, not self defense. Those two things are not comparable. Most murders are 2nd degree, done in extreme emotional situations. I work as an FI with killers. I know some don't want or cannot change. That is not the majority. That still doesn't mean we need a death penalty. Its too expensive, not a deterrent and doesn't lower crime rate.
    1
  790. That doesn't mean we need a death penalty. Thats what life in prison is for.
    1
  791. You pay more in taxes for death penalty convictions.
    1
  792. Not really. I could argue that there was no reason (othet than an emotional one) to execute Bundy.
    1
  793. Your entire comment is BASED on feelings, which you just said is wrong. Feelings HAVE to play the role in capital punishment, because if it were strictly facts, EVERYONE would be against the death penalty. All the facts point to abolishing it. You want to keep it because of your feelings. Don't be a hypocrite.
    1
  794. Why? Because he doesn't believe in a useless system?
    1
  795.  @Philgob  The death penalty is a useless system that is not beneficial to society.
    1
  796.  @Philgob  Because I'm simply repeating to you exactly what his point was, which you said makes someone dumb. So back up your claim of how he's dumb. Have you never had a debate before?
    1
  797.  @Philgob  So what you're basically saying is you have no argument, and focus on attacking someone based on looks. Good to know. By the way, I'm quite proud of how much I've done with myself.
    1
  798.  @Philgob  I've done a lot of good for society in the field I work in. Tell me, what have you done? Since you're hell bent on saying I'm useless just because you disagree with me and can't have an adult debate?
    1
  799. This has been disproven over and over. A person who is "deterred" by death wouldn't have committed the crime in the first place. It does not deter those who are going to commit capital offenses. You don't scare those people who feel they have nothing to lose off by threatening death. Ps. The US still has the electric chair.
    1
  800.  @haleyb6402  I doubt it would. I really doubt it.
    1
  801. Whether or not your subjective moral opinion believes they deserve death or not is irrelevant. Your emotions should not dictate the laws. It is not cheaper to execute someone than it is to attempt to rehabilitate them or keep them in prison for life. This has been continuously proven, and should be common knowledge to those who want to debate about the subject.
    1
  802.  @noodles1291  Emotion is always going to be a factor. But practicality should always take precedent. The fact remains that there is no practical reason for the death penalty. The problem does stem from the legal costs. Not just that, but death row in all states costs more per inmate than someone in general. The death penalty is not a deterrent, does not lower the crime rate, is too expensive, and risks putting an innocent person to death. So why should we have it?
    1
  803.  @noodles1291  You said you were pro-death penalty. That is revenge. There's a reason most victims, myself included, don't believe in capital punishment.
    1
  804. Yes...ignore their right to due process and ignore that a quarter of them are innocent...
    1
  805. Charles Manson was not a murderer. He was not mentality ill. He just did a lot of drugs. My sister was murdered and her killer left me with a broken spine that has left me permenantly disabled. I will always be against the death penalty.
    1
  806. It would still be more expensive.
    1
  807.  @dankdonutt  Yes. Yes I do.
    1
  808. 62% of people who have been victimized are against the death penalty. There's a reason for this.
    1
  809. Go back to the dark ages.
    1
  810. Whether they deserve it or not is a matter of opinion, and should not be the basis of our laws.
    1
  811. No, of course I wouldn't want a known serial killer around my family. But he doesn't have to be. Thats what prison is for. This is why life sentences exist. No one has ever escaped a maximum security prison. You can have all of this without a death penalty.
    1
  812.  @15gladuis22  That isn't what I meant. Actually no. Many people don't apply for parole because they know it would be harder for them on parole than it would be for them to just remain in prison. I am not against capital punishment for any emotional reason. My reasons for being against capital punishment are grounded in facts. Police have descretion when it comes to those who are not on parole or probation. That is not the case for someone who is. You don't, as a police officer, get to decide whether or not a person you stop gets arrested if they are on parole or probation. You are required by most departments to hold them and contact their parole or probation officer. Failing to do so may be grounds for termination. I have personally known people get arrested for jaywalking because they have been on parole, and while not common, it happens. Especially when you have bored police officers
    1
  813. You do realize that "beyond reasonable doubt" doesn't mean guilty right?
    1
  814.  @Keegeth  Elighten you on what? You wouldn't understand anyway. Being convicted dose mean guilty
    1
  815. Actually it really is. A majority of people do get correctly convicted and get justice. But it is certainly far from perfect.
    1
  816. The fact that I still have to pay more money to the people sitting on death row than I would for them sitting in prison for life.
    1
  817. No it shouldn't and it shoild be abolished in the US. It is not beneficial and your opinion on whether or not someone deserves to live should not be a foundation for a law.
    1
  818. No it doesn't and that has been continuously disproven by criminologists. A person who is going to commit a crime worthy of the death penalty either a) cannot think rationally or b) doesn't care. Capital punishment has no effect on those who are not scared to die.
    1
  819. Good and evil don't inherently exist. Its a subjective opinion.
    1
  820. No, but most people aren't Ted Bundy. His point was we don't bother rehabilitating the ones we can, instead focusing on punishment, and ultimately harming them further. Deserving of something is a fallacy, and should not be the basis of your argument.
    1
  821. Your subjective opinion should not be the foundation for a law. Whether or not someone deserves it is an appeal to emotion fallacy.
    1
  822. I'm not pro-death penalty but I would get the feeling they would say because of diversity and population. Though depending on your definition of "western country" the US certainly does not have a higher crime rate.
    1
  823.  @thexamlop  "probably more diversity?" or where there is? We're on the same side here. Just you need to clarify what you meant by "western" nation, since "western" usually means "developed". I could give you a whole list of developed nations that have higher homicide rates than the US, Russia probably being the biggest one.
    1
  824.  @ClassyGyal  Uh...Canada has no legal rights for civilians to possess firearms. Very few people in Canada have handguns, and they don't have the population nor border issues of the US. Not only that, they have a knife crime epidemic just like Europe.
    1
  825. Ted Bundy never escaped prison. He escaped once from a courthouse, and once from a jail. And he was caught within 24 hours one time, and within a week the next. He had no other victims during these times.
    1
  826. We don't need the death penalty. Just because in your emotional fallacy you believe someone deserves the death penalty doesn't mean we actually need one.
    1
  827. That is certainly not the the majority, and we don't even bother trying to rehabilitate the ones we can.
    1
  828.  @Can_think_of_a_name  Who are you to decide that?
    1
  829.  @See-if_I_care  So someone who jaywalks, smokes weed, or speeds should be given a death sentence?
    1
  830. Death, however, should never be enacted unwillingly, especially by a body that likes to say "killing is wrong".
    1
  831. You don't have to be on the left for that and its because they have nothing to do with each other. Abortion has to do with your own legal rights and autonomy. Capital punishment has to do with you supporting the state in expensively executing someone for no benefit to society.
    1
  832.  @Fanofmusic106  A fetus is not a baby. No, nothing is wrong with me. I support a womans choice to do as she sees fit while pregnant. I am against the death penalty because it is not practical.
    1
  833. The whole argument is it should not be up to the legal system who lives and who dies. It's not that people receive the death penalty often. That's the whole issue. Its rarely used, and provides no benefit to society. So it should be done away with. My tax dollars continue to get sucked into a useless system. So it ISNT pointless
    1
  834.  @stephen6397  The death penalty hasn't been axed in Pennsylvania. You still have capital punishment. And your claim is absolutely false. Violent crime, especially homicides, have been lower in non death penalty states since 1990. I don't care whether you are for or against the death penalty, but don't sit here and flat out lie to try and prove your argument.
    1
  835. It's not ignorant to be against a bronze age system that provides nothing beneficial to society.
    1
  836. Actually, Prager U did a horrible video on the topic that was full of fallacies. Feel free to argue against me as I can debunk any practical pro-capital punishment argument. It doesn't cheapen murder. The country with the lowest crime rate has no death penalty. The states that have no death penalty have lower crime rates.
    1
  837. No he wasn't. And he often contradicted himself.
    1
  838. Yes. Just pay more taxes to execute them. Makes sense.
    1
  839. Psychopaths amd sociopaths are not words recognized anymore. These people fall on a spectrum, and some of them (in fact, many of them) are non-violent. You're so misinformed and uneducated on this subject, its cringy.
    1
  840. Do you not realize that ASPD makes up a slim minority of the prison population?
    1
  841. That is not a fact. That is a subjective opinion.
    1
  842.  @malct6545  So...why did you say it was fact?
    1
  843.  @malct6545  Nothing at all. I was just curious as to why you thought your opinion was fact.
    1
  844.  Lizzie Allen  No of course they do. But they tend to fear lifers more than death row inmates. The death penalty doesn't protect them. They will always have inmates to deal with. So I don't know why you would assume CO's are in favor of capital punishment.
    1
  845.  @Lorrenz  And thats the kind of thinking that get innocent people killed. Things aren't simple in the justice system, and they can't be. The difference between us is I've actually worked in the system.
    1
  846.  @Lorrenz  And I don't live in a country like that. So I can't understand where that fear comes from. Especially since countries that have the happiest citizens and the lowest crime rates have no death penalty.
    1
  847.  @Lorrenz  Yes it does. Laws that provide no benefit to a society should be abolished
    1
  848.  Lizzie Allen  And any locked up violent offenders by an institution who is competent and runs well doesn't have anything to worry about either. Its not benefical to society to execute inmates. It doesn't lower violent crime rates and its more expensive. Charles Manson is a poor example. He never killed anyone. And had you put him to death, you would have spent more in tax money. Because it costs anywhere from $70,000 to $3,000,000 more to execute someone. I thought this was common knowledge. We insist on being fair because its their Constitutional right, and nothing justifies putting to death an innocent, sentient person without their consent. Period.
    1
  849.  @Lorrenz  Its really because of the appeals process.
    1
  850. You should, even if its on a superficial level. You don't need to pity them, but having empathy for people, even those who do not feel it for others, is normal.
    1
  851.  @Paigey15trini  Ahh I understand. Yeah, thats what I thought too. Until I started working in the profession.
    1
  852.  @oliviam6332  As a rape victim, yes I would. Whether or not rehabilitation would work is another story.
    1
  853. Please explain how. What benefit does the death penalty offer? How does it help society that cannot be achieved by putting someone in prison for life?
    1
  854.  @ElGuije  So based on emotion? No. I would pay way more in taxes to put them to death.
    1
  855.  @ElGuije  There's a reason for the lengthy appeals process. How about just outlaw it in general? It's not a deterrent. It doesn't lower violent crime rate
    1
  856.  @ElGuije  Because I don't believe most killers are evil and I am a human being capable of empathy.
    1
  857. @Not a single Bear Intentional doesn't always mean first degree. In fact, most murders are 2nd degree "crime of passion" murders. I am almost 25, and work in the criminal justice field.
    1
  858. @Not a single Bear So I'm a kid because I happen to like cartoons? You don't have to take me seriously. And actually, if you did research and studied criminology, most murders are 2nd degree murders. Not 1st degree. Especially in the US.
    1
  859. @Not a single Bear Nothing wrong with that.
    1
  860. You pay 3 times more to execute them. I thought capital punishment being more expensive was common knowledge.
    1
  861. @The English Gentleman All methods of execution are more expensive, because it's not just the execution you're paying for. You pay for the entire process, including unlimited appeals.
    1
  862. I've been in prison. No one deserves the death penalty.
    1
  863. No one honestly believes that. The point is that a sincere apology at least shows that the convicted understood what they did was wrong. It should not reduce their sentence.
    1
  864. I believe the death penalty is an archaic useless system that provides no benefit to society.
    1
  865. And what about the victims who sre anti-death penalty?
    1
  866. No, that isn't true. The death penalty only deters those who would have never considered doing it in the first place.
    1
  867. I don't think he should have, no.
    1
  868.  @wb624  Ted Bundy did not escape from prison nor did he escape numerous times. He escaped first from a court library and was a fugitive for 6 days. He did not murder anyone but did rob several things including clothing, a rifle and a car. His second escape was from a jail, not a prison, and was entirely on the fault of the jail staff, resulting in the murders of 3 other women. And even then, in my opinion, he should not have received the death penalty. It was costly and he was helping law enforcement with other cases at the time of his execution.
    1
  869.  @wb624  Not trying to argue. Meerly giving you a different opinion and clearing up your lie.
    1
  870.  @patrickstewart4715  That's a matter of personal opinion. I dont believe that's justice.
    1
  871. Most people who support capital punishment are pro-life. I'm anti-death penalty and pro-choice
    1
  872. Not deserving a second chance and deserving capital punishment is not a reason to ennact a law. Thats a fallacious argument. By the way, pedophiles can, and have, been successfully rehabilitated. This depends on the person.
    1
  873. His point was the majority of people can be rehabilitated. Mental illness is a very broad term, and neither psychopathy nor sociopathy are words we use anymore.
    1
  874. No, it was more focused of rehabilitation and lengthy sentencing than death. Least thats my take.
    1
  875. No. It's just that rational individuals know the difference between sentience and life, and know when a law being in place is practical
    1
  876. Argument from emotion fallacy.
    1
  877. No one ever has to die. Not like this at least. Perhaps it isn't worth it to you, but I don't think its worth the risk of executing an innocent.
    1
  878. That is arguing from emotion, a weak fallacy. Laws should be based on practicality, not strictly emotions.
    1
  879. And that is why you shouldn't argue from morality, and instead argue from a practical and logical sense.
    1
  880. Very few people who get the death penalty are diagnosed with ASPD.
    1
  881. Then stop putting people in prison for non violent minor offenses. Focus on rehabilitation of the ones who can ben rehabilitated. If you stopped harsh sentences for minor offenses, then you could absolutely abolish the death penalty and still have room. You are using a fallacious argument.
    1
  882. So death penalty convicts? Yeah, they get unlimited appeals. Thats one reason why its so expensive.
    1
  883. For what reasons?
    1
  884.  @lolaeishold-lewis8424  I think that's a psychopathic way of thinking. I think wanting to see revenge done to people shows a lack of compassion. Whether or not you think they deserve it, they are still human. Laws should not be based solely on emotions. Capital punishment is not practical.
    1
  885.  @lolaeishold-lewis8424  Then this is just my opinion. I think you have sociopathic traits, as you lack an ability to empathize with those who have done har..
    1
  886. Being a horrible human being does not mean we should have a death penalty. Laws should be practical, not based solely on emotion.
    1
  887.  @dverdugo6676  No one should receive the death penalty. It should not exist.
    1
  888.  @dverdugo6676  I could make the argument that's an objective fact.
    1
  889.  @dverdugo6676  More expensive than prison for life, is not a deterrent, does not lower homicide rates, execution of innocent people, countries and states without the death penalty have lower crime etc.
    1
  890.  @dverdugo6676  Exactly. And they have that right because the execution of an innocent person would be against the Constitution. You wouldn't have that problem if you stopped putting non-violent criminals in federal prisons. Just because countries do not have the same population we do doesnt mean there should be such dramatic differences in crime rate. There is no such thing as without a doubt in a legal case. Its always beyond a reasonable doubt.
    1
  891.  @dverdugo6676  No, I don't believe that. My point was that having a death penalty doesnt lower the crime rate. Its not a deterrent.
    1
  892. Go back to the bronze age.
    1
  893. Regardless of how often in happens, it still happens. And the fact that you're okay with that is psychopathic. You would be devastated if your loved one was falsely accused and killed. There is no benefit to the death penalty. It doesn't do anything beneficial to society. It's too expensive, its not a deterrent, and it doesn't lower violent crime rate.
    1
  894.  @Sieghart.  If you are okay with innocent people suffering death, you are a psychopath and need to be locked up yourself. That is sometimes true. But not in all cases. That's why we have different levels of prisons and jails.
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  895. Not necessarily. Not all people are like you. My sister was murdered at 10 and I have lifelong disabilities because of it. I still advocated against the death penalty.
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  896. Its normal to feel emotions for your fellow humans. That's what makes people empaths. If that's the rule, anyone who has ever seen combat in the military should die. Anyone who has ever pulled the plug on a comatose patient should die. Anyone who has ever performed a slow code should die.
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  897. I highly doubt you're very experienced in life. Wanting to get rid of a useless system, and focus on helping fellow man is progress, not regression. The people who cannot and do not want to change can sit in a cell with no freedom for the rest of their days.
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  898. And how will that help her? Then you'll be imprisoned and won't be able to protect her the next time...
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  899. You can have justice without the death penalty. Even most victims are against capital punishment, myself included.
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  900.  @chriscodling6573  Perhaps in your opinion. I think an eye for an eye makes you just as bad. The fact that you could watch someone die and feel no empathy is psychotic. Time is much harder when you're forced to live it. I was proud to stand against the death penalty against the man who killed my sister.
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  901.  @chriscodling6573  No shit. I don't think it's justice to force my pain on another innocent family. They don't deserve to suffer just because their relative hurt me. That's fucking revenge. Your opinion of justice is yours. I'm happy that several states are currently in the process of abolishing the death penalty.
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  902.  @chriscodling6573  Justice: just behavior or treatment. The definiton is entirely subjective.
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  903.  @chriscodling6573  Who's to decide what someone deserves? I don't believe they deserve death. 20 states don't believe they deserve death. That's why it's subjective. I didn't mess up anywhere. Your mad because I don't believe in the death penalty because it does nothing benefical.
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  904.  @chriscodling6573  Then don't sit here and tell me I'm messed up or I don't believe in justice because I have a different opinion than you.
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  905. The death penalty doesnt strike fear and is not an effective deterrent. This has already been proven
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  906. The death penalty does nothing productive or beneficial to society that life in prison doesn't do.
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  907. Why, because he doesnt believe in a useless system?
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  908. You're the kind of people we don't want working in the justice system. A majority of murderers can and do change. And they can be rehabilitated. When you focus on getting them the help they need, the recidivism dramatically decreases.
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  909. No. No I'm not.
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  910. Your question is called an "argument from emotion fallacy". Whether or not someone deserves something doesn't matter. Thats a matter of opinion. If a law provides no benefit to society, it should be abolished.
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  911. You say that as if they can't escape or do more harm on death row. My sisters murderer sits in prison, and I do just fine. Go back to the dark ages worth your "eye for an eye" mentality.
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  912. In your opinion perhaps. That shouldn't dictate the law.
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  913.  @kalvinmensah1135  A useless system that does not benefit society and is not practical should be done away with.
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  914. Yep. Wrote a whole paper on her. Doesn't change my views on the death penalty.
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  915. So, you'd pay more just to see them die?
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  916.  @jacrispy8802  Which is strange since most victims are anti-death penalty.
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  917.  @jacrispy8802  Why should I be forced to pay more?
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