Comments by "TombWraith" (@Tomb-Wraith) on "Neil deGrasse Tyson: Atheist or Agnostic? | Big Think" video.

  1. Wildman Samurai Agnostic is not a stand alone claim. Most agnostics are agnostic atheists who just don't like to call themselves atheists.
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  2. Wildman Samurai He also does not believe in a God. So he's an agnostic atheist. If you don't believe in a god, but can't prove one exists, congrats. You're an atheist.
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  3. Wildman Samurai Once again, an agnostic is not a stand alone claim. It's a claim of knowledge. He also has said he does not believe in a God but doesn't believe it can ever be proven. Therefore, he's also an atheist. He's like a majority of other atheists. An agnostic atheist.
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  4. Wildman Samurai Do you believe in a God? I'm not asking if you know. I'm asking if you BELIEVE.
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  5. Wildman Samurai And you're also an athiest because you don't believe in one. Congrats on being just like practically everyone else.
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  6. Wildman Samurai You also don't believe. Therefore you are an atheist. Belief has nothing to do with knowledge. You're hiding behind a non exclusive claim because you don't like to be associated with atheists. That's fine. It doesn't stop you from being one, as is Mr. Tyson.
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  7. Wildman Samurai Have a good life, Mr agnostic atheist.
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  8. Casey Lee I know. I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about a difference between knowledge and belief
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  9.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  You are a moron who can't accept that most "agnostics" are atheists.
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  10. Gnostic Theist: There is a God Anti-Theist: There is no god. Agnostic Theist: I don't know, but I believe in God. Agnostic Atheist: I don't know, but I don't believe in God. No such thing as strictly agnostic. It's a knowledge stance.
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  11. Except you literally just described the colloquial definition of atheism. Its not that hard. Colloquially, he's an atheist. Philosophically, he's an agnostic. Simple.
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  12.  @Xzanah  Its okay. Its confusing because people often confuse colloquial definitions with philosophical ones.
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  13. Daniel Fernandez You are wrong. An atheist is someone who does not believe in a God. An anti theist (also called a gnostic atheist) is someone who says there is no god. There are 4 groups: Gnostic Theists (Deists), Agnostic Theists, Gnostic Atheists (Anti-Theists) and Agnostic Atheists.
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  14. Your entire comment is a new true scotsman fallacy. All Christians claim to be "true Christians".
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  15.  @johnbaptist1928  Once again, thats a no true scotsman fallacy. As long as you believe in the God of the Bible and that Jesus is the messiah, you are a Christian. Thats all.
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  16.  @johnbaptist1928  Yeah, quoting scripture doesn't do anything. Words have established definitions.
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  17. No, agnostic is someone who does not know if a God exists. Which should be everyone. Agnostic is a redundant term used by people who are usually atheistic, but do not want to associate with the atheist label.
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  18.  @pub_loveasmr6205  Then you're an agnostic theist. This is why I said "usually atheistic". My point is, agnostic is not a stand alone statement. You aren't "just agnostic" Also no, you can't feel a higher power because it hasn't been proven to exist. You feel what you attribute to a higher power. That doesn't make God real.
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  19.  @pub_loveasmr6205  For one to believe in the existence of something with 0 evidence is asinine. Your "feeling" could be a higher power, or could simply be your brain that you attribute to a higher power. To claim that as fact is dishonest. Atheists don't deny the existence of a God either. That's a anti-theist. Atheists do however lack a belief in a God, as one has not been demonstrated with evidence. My intention was never to change your mind. It was simply to correct you on what the word "agnostic" means. It simply means "without knowledge", which everyone has. It has nothing to do with belief.
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  20.  @pub_loveasmr6205  No, but it is dishonest to assert and claim you know something as fact, which is what you did, when there is no evidence for it. Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief and only with ones stance on knowledge. I am an agnostic atheist, a person who does not know if a God exists or not, but does not believe in one. A person who does not subscribe to a particular religion is a non-denominational theist. Agnostic is a redundant word, since everyone should be agnostic. Yes, atheists do not believe in God. However, atheists don't deny the possibility of a God existing. That's fine. I'm just merely trying to educate you on where you got things wrong. I was not trying to argue with you.
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  21. That is not what an atheist believes, and if if we did, that would be no more outlandish than claiming an omnipotent God created everything.
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  22.  @tyzbrah  An atheist does not believe that there is no God. A lack of a belief is not a belief. Unlike you, I'm not afraid to admit I don't have all the answers.
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  23.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  I never said beliefs were assertions. It's the religious that believe that, not me.
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  24.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  Yes they do. They tell me because I'm an atheist I therefore say a God cant or doesn't exist. And that isnt what I said. Agnosticism is redundant. Everyone is or should be agnostic.
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  25.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  Agnostic is not a stand alone claim. Saying your agnostic only tells someone you don't know. All atheists are agnostic. If you claim that a God does not exist, you are not an atheist. You're an anti-theist. No, you're using agnostic to avoid calling yourself what you probably are, which is an atheist. If you dont believe in a God, then you ARE an atheist. Get over it.
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  26.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  That's not an oxymoron idiot. You don't understand the difference between belief and knowledge. You're the one trying to redefine words. I don't know if there is a God. I am therefore agnostic. I also do not believe in God. I am therefore an atheist. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
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  27.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol   What the fuck do you think they originally meant? The words we used are transcribed from their Latin roots. No one changed them. Knowledge is not belief. There is no reason to believe in something if you know it is true. What you hold in you creativity and belief is the opposite side if the brain from your knowledge and memory. There are many things you can be 100% sure of. I know, scientifically based on what a hallucination is, that I am in fact not hallucinating. I would actually prefer if the word agnostic didn't exist, because its redundant. Atheism is the lack of a belief dumbass. I don't know for sure, but I still don't believe. By the established definitions, that makes me an agnostic atheist. Lack of belief is just that. A lack of a belief due to no evidence being presented. Neither. I don't positively believe there is no God, as that would be a claim of knowledge. I do not believe in a God, though I do not deny a God COULD exist. I am, for the last time, an agnostic atheist.
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  28.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  I was defined etymologically for thousands of years, as were most words. It was only as language advanced did we change meanings of words. You've also never taken a Latin class, because roots are one of the first lessons. No, I'm not wrong, but feel free to believe what you want. And no, they don't agree. It's one of the topics that continues to be debated on. I understand logic just fine, considering I'm talking to someone who seems to believe in a sky daddy.
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  29.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  That is absolutely not true. I love it. Your two sources are urban dictionary and wordpress. Congrats genius.
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  30.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  So it's very clear to me you didn't even read the link you sent me. Also a student giving his philosophical opinion on something doesn't make him correct. That being said, both words have an established definition. Even if you don't agree with that definition.
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  31.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  I believe I already stated what I am. Whether or not you chose to continue this is up to you. You want me to believe in a God? Prove to me one exists.
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  32.  @thrune8295  So I've noticed.
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  33. No rational atheist tries to prove God does not exist because you cannot prove a negative. Atheists lack a belief in God. Dr. Tyson is an atheist. An agnostic atheist, like most.
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  34. Vanderox so...youre an atheist. An agnostic atheist.
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  35. No, dumb people who do not understand what the word atheist means or who are cowards and do not like the atheist label and try to find a middle ground use the word "agnostic". Do you believe in God? If the answer is anything other than yes, you are an atheist. I respect Dr. Tyson as a scientist, but he knows very little of theology and completely misrepresented atheism.
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  36.  Niko Kapanen  But he doesn't believe in God. Because he cannot say he does. That makes him an agnostic atheist. Agnostic is not a stand alone claim
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  37.  Niko Kapanen  Being open to the possibilty of a God doesn't mean you believe in one. I'm open to a God existing, but I currently do not believe in one. That makes me an atheist. If you cannot say with certainity that you believe in God, you disbelieve by default. Not true. You confuse knowledge and belief.
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  38.  Niko Kapanen  Calling yourself something doesn't mean thats what you are. You were, as is Dr. Tyson, by definiton, also an atheist. If you cannot give a "yes" to the question "Do you believe in God?" You are an atheist. Most atheists are also agnostic. Regardless of whether they WANT to believe or disbelieve, they do. There is no such thing as just "agnostic".
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  39. No. Agnostic Atheist: I don't know whether a God exists, but I don't believe in one. Gnostic Atheist: There is no God.
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  40.  @sj205  No it isn't. Not with your gnostic comment. You need to be careful about how you use language.
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  41.  @sj205  Your statement implies belief. Not knowledge. Gnostic atheism is the claim of knowledge that there is no God. In other words, don't use the term "think".
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  42. KALEIDO jess Yes there's a difference but everyone is, or should be, Agnostic. It's not a stand alone claim. He's an atheist by definition.
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  43. There is no rules of atheism. An atheist simply lacks a belief in a God. Dr. Tyson is really uninformed when it comes to this subject because agnostic is not a stand alone claim.
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  44.  @undead_corsair  That is not a rule of atheism, as atheism does not claim there is no God. Atheists simply do not believe in God, and there is a difference between belief and knowledge. You are one of the many people who confuse an atheist with an anti-theist.
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  45.  @undead_corsair  Just because they call themselves atheists doesn't mean they are. If you do not fit the definition, you are not an atheist. All atheists are agnostic. In fact, so are most theists.
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  46. So you're an atheist.
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  47.  @whodis6318  No, that is not an atheist. Atheists lack a belief in a God. A lack of a belief is not a belief in "there is no God". You are an agnostic atheist, a person who does presently not believe in a deity but doesn't rule out the potential of a deity existing.
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  48.  @whodis6318  There is no such thing as "just an agnostic". Its not a stand alone term. It's just a knowledge stance on the existence of God. And since no one knows, everyone should be agnostic.
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  49. That's called Pascals Wager and is truly the weakest argument. What happens if you're worshipping the wrong Deity? Then you're screwed.
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  50. So you're an agnostic theist. I'm an agnostic atheist. Everyone is, or should be, agnostic.
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  51. Funny you should bring close mindedness up, considering theists tend to be more closed minded than atheists. Attacking atheists for their disbelief, kicking those who don't conform out of their lives, hatred of LGBT people because of a book. In my opinion, believing in something with 0 evidence is intellectual dishonesty and wishful thinking.
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  52. Karl   Karl  I never denied there are atheists who attack theists. But they are certainly not the majority. I see a lot of religious people attacking atheists, telling them they are damned or going to hell. They abuse and harass those who are different, but again this isn't everyone. What effect does me not believing in a God because there is 0 evidence of one have on you? The bible commands you to put homosexuals to death, so how can you sit there and say God doesn't hate homosexuals? When you command those who commit sin to be killed, or Damn them to hellfire for eternity, I'd say that's hatred.
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  53. He's an agnostic atheist.
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  54. No, anti-theism claims that there is no God. Atheism is a lack of a belief in a God. There is no such thing as "just" an agnostic. If you are asked if you believe in God, and your answer is anything other than "yes", you are an atheist. Most atheists, like Dr. Tyson, are also agnostics, because the knowledge of whether or not a God exists is impossible to know.
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  55.  @svwtsvfcb  Theres no point in watching the video again because Dr. Tyson is completely misinformed on this topic. An atheist is someone who does not believe in a God. Dr. Tyson does not believe in a God, therefore he is an atheist.
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  56. No, because those two words are exact antonyms. What does this have to do with atheism?
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  57.  @tylerh5501  Most atheists do not believe they are a cosmic accident. Also, no. You can have purpose regardless of whether or not there is a God. The meanings behind that purpose may be different, but I believe in secular humanism.
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  58.  @tylerh5501  Twofold. I'm not a cosmic accident. I exist because my parents had sex and failed at aborting me. Secondly, evolution is not "chance". Its a scientific process over millions of years that required natural selection.
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  59.  @tylerh5501  No, life is not a cosmic accident, and if you hold that to be true than you must prove it. My purpose is to live life to the fullest and treat my fellow men respectfully.
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  60. Why? Because we don't believe in something without evidence?
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  61. Which a majority of atheists don't...
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  62. Isaac Bendeck You are not just an agnostic. You're an agnostic atheist. We also do not know a soul exists. That has never been proven
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  63. fire & brimstone grace period over Yes, but that doesn't mean there is a God.
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  64. David Welsh Probably because he is uneducated about this, as he is, in fact, an atheist. He's an agnostic atheist.
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  65. David Welsh Then he needs to become more informed on the fact that you are never just an agnostic. That's just a fact
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  66. And is not mutually exclusive.
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  67. Then you are by definiton an atheist. An agnostic atheist to be exact.
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  68. I can't hate something I do believe exists. I hate what religion makes some people do. Thats why I fight against it.
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  69.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  No, but I think some are arbitrary and up for moral interpretation. I hate when religion teaches people to hate others in order to be right with a God that may not even exist.
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  70.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  And that's why I'm a secular humanist. I can base my morals on what negatively impacts society and people, instead of a book that think rape is awesome.
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  71.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  What exactly is your argument?
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  72.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  Argument about what? Being an atheist or my moral standard?
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  73.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  Morality is subjective, so I don't see a point.
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  74. No such thing as just being agnostic. Also, atheism is not a religion.
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  75.  @hr1623  No, your point is incorrect and makes no sense
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  76.  @hr1623  Thats not most atheists. That is an anti-theist. And they by no mean represent atheists. No it isn't. I am not arrogant for stating a fact. You do not know the difference between an atheist and an anti-theist, nor do you know what an agnostic is, as most atheists are agnostic. In fact, everyone SHOULD be agnostic.
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  77.  @hr1623  An atheist is someone who does not believe in a God or Gods yes. Knowledge and belief are two different things. My point is they are not mutually exclusive, and claiming to just be agnostic about something has an empty meaning. You can be both atheistic or theistic while also being agnostic and gnostic.
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  78.  @hr1623  Not in all aspects. Neil knows shit about religion. He's an atheist who doesn't want to be associated with atheism. Thats fine. That doesn't mean he isn't an atheist, regardless of if he tries to hide behind "agnosticism". Agnostic is not a belief stance. Its a stance on knowledge.
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  79. That isn't atheism, and you probably are an atheist. Agnostic is not a stand alone claim.
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  80. Everyone is agnostic. What else are you?
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  81.  @theredshadow360  An atheist doesn't have to prove anything. Its not a positive claim. Dr. Tyson is an atheist.
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  82.  @RadicalUnderstanding  No, thats an anti-theist, gnostic atheist or a philosophical atheist. Most atheists are also agnostic.
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  83.  @RadicalUnderstanding  Everyone is, or should be agnostic. Thiests and atheists. Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief. Its a knowledge claim.
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  84.  @RadicalUnderstanding  I'm an agnostic atheist. I cannot prove whether or not there is a God, but I lack a belief in one.
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  85. So...you're an agnostic atheist. No one is just agnostic. It's not a stand alone belief. It's a claim of knowledge. Everyone should be agnostic.
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  86.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  Agnosticism is a knowledge claim. Theism is a belief claim. To claim you neither disbelieve nor believe is a paradox. If you don't believe, you disbelieve by default. Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive terms. Most atheists are agnostic, and most agnostics are atheists who don't want to be associated with the term atheism.
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  87.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  I don't know any atheists who aren't agnostic. You confuse an atheist with an anti-theist. That's your problem. An agnostic atheist isn't a copout. It's simply says " I don't know, but I don't believe". EVERYONE should be agnostic.
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  88.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  I'm an agnostic athiest, because I don't know. They aren't a contradiction. Agnostic is a knowledge claim. Atheism is a belief claim. You think they're a contradiction because you don't understand the difference between an atheist and an anti-theist.
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  89.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  An agnostic is only a person who says a God cannot be known. It's literally "I don't know". I'm an agnostic atheist.
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  90.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  You clearly don't know what the word "Gnostic" means. It's "relating to knowledge". Has nothing to do with belief. Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. You can't neither believe or disbelieve. If you don't believe, you disbelieve by default.
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  91. PikUpYourPantsPatrol  If they think your lying, than they are unconvinced about you being truthful with them. Exactly, that's my whole point. That's why just saying "I'm agnostic" doesn't mean anything. It's not my fault you don't understand. Gnosticism is not a belief. It's a claim of knowledge. Whether it has evidence or not is irrelevant. I am an agnostic atheist. I don't know whether or not a God exists, but do not believe in one. End of story. It's not that hard.
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  92.  @PikUpYourPantsPatrol  If you have no opinion of the subject, then you clearly don't believe in a God and are an atheist by default. Nothing can be known as fact about the existence of a deity. That is why everyone should be agnostic. You don't grasp that atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive. I gave you the meaning of the word agnostic based on the Latin roots. You look like an idiot when you resort to adhominems because you can't understand. I am BOTH an agnostic (a person who claims that nothing can be known about a deity) and an atheist (a person who does not believe a deity exists).
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  93. Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is a lack of a belief in a God. What you also described was an agnostic. An agnostic says "I don't know." Everyone should be agnostic, so it's a redundant term.
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  94. Except an atheist doesn't say there is no God. Atheism is a lack of a belief in a God. Dr. Tyson is an atheist. You are one of the many people who lack the understanding of knowing the actual definition of agnostic and the difference between atheism and anti-theism
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  95. Sav Chris You have the wrong definitons. Everyone is, or should be agnostic. Agnostic Atheist- I don't believe in a god but don't know whether or not a God exists Agnostic Theist- I believe in God, but don't know whether or not a God exists Gnostic Thiest-There is a God Anti-Theist-There is no God.
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  96. swaydam If you don't know, but you don't believe, then yes. You are an agnostic atheist. What do you believe? If you don't know, then you clearly don't believe. That is an atheist.
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  97. Wildman Samurai That also makes you an atheist, because you don't believe in a creator.
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  98. Wildman Samurai You aren't just an agnostic. You clearly don't believe in a creator. That makes you an agnostic atheist. It's fine that you just want to be referred to as agnostic. But you aren't just agnostic.
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  99.  @pokemontrainer3  if you do not believe in a creator, you are an atheist. Dr. Tyson is just being a coward and doesn't want to associate with the atheist label. The word agnostic is redundant, as everyone is, or should be, agnostic. Agnostic is a knowledge stance on whether or not a God exists
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  100.  @americanliberal09  Thats not an opinion. If I ask you "Do you believe in God" and your answer is anything other than "yes", you are an atheist. There is no such thing as just an agnostic. Everyone should be agnostic. He clearly doesn't believe in a deity. That makes him an atheist.
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  101.  @americanliberal09  He doesn't believe in a God. He has stated that before as well in other talks. So yes, he is an atheist. He doesn't even have to say it for it to be a positive inference. There's a difference between knowledge and belief. Atheism and theism are belief stances. Gnosticism and agnosticism are knowledge stances. Its not a trick. You're just stupid. Again, not ruling out the possibility of a deity doesn't mean you aren't an atheist. I don't rule out the possibility of God, but I'm an atheist. You're one of those people who don't know the difference between anti-theist and atheist.
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  102.  @americanliberal09  No, saying "I don't believe in a God's existence" or refusing to say he "believes in a God's existence" makes him an atheist. By the way, he has stated in multiple sources that the idea of a God is silly to him, though as a man of science, he cannot disregard the thought of one. I am well aware that knowledge and belief are not mutually exclusive. Agnosticism by definiton only deals with knowledge. Its the knowledge on whether or not a God exists. Everyone should be agnostic. You don't have to admit to being an atheist. If you don't believe in God, you fit the definition of an atheist. I never said agnostics are atheists by default. Many theists are agnostic. No, being an atheist does not rule out the possibility of a God existing. I simply do not believe in one. I do not claim as fact that a God does not or cannot exist. You lack the understanding of what an atheist is. Your previous paragraph states that an atheist rules out any possibility of a God existing. So how would an atheist not be an anti-theist then? You're contradicting yourself.
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  103. You have to establish that we are "created" and that there must be a "creator" which you haven't proven. Evolution is a thing. The universe may have always existed. Those books were written to control people.
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  104. If you don't know what to believe in, then you clearly don't have a belief. Then by default you are an agnostic atheist.
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  105. And why is that? Because I don't believe in something that has no evidence to support it?
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  106.  @andysavage9663  That's fine. We have differing opinions. I don't think theism makes sense. I just wondered why it made you feel suicidal. I'm sorry that some atheists are like that. I don't think your stupid for believing in God. I say go for it, if it gives you hope.
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  107. Just Some Guy There's a difference between anti-thiests and atheists
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  108. Thiicwooferz `` Agnosticism is not a stand alone claim.
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  109. An agnostic what? Probably an atheist.
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  110.  Goose  No, its not. But I like people to be educated about the terms they use.
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  111.  @MSR-ok9xl  Because "agnostic" used in the colloquial sense has no meaning. It means I don't know. So everyone is agnostic. Unless you're speaking to me from a philosophical perspective, telling me your agnostic doesn't tell me anything. I want to know what you believe in.
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  112.  @MSR-ok9xl  You do realize that the only reason most atheists fight over religion and God is because the religious are literally trying to strip rights from us right? If you have a problem with that, you can frankly go fuck yourself. I don't care what you are or what you believe in. But I care when you are uneducated about a topic. Because you will inevitably misrepresent it.
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  113. Ashraf Anam Because he is an atheist. We just want him to admit it.
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  114. Except agnostic is not a stand alone claim. Dr. Tyson is an agnostic atheist.
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