Comments by "Vic 2.0" (@Vic2point0) on "Sabine Hossenfelder" channel.

  1. @ayogamindset3867 Well said.
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  2. So much for "People are whatever they identify as".
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  3. @radubradu Well said.
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  4. "Gender refers to our internal sense of being female, male, etc." If that's the definition you're going with, then those calling trans people delusional are right. Because the person is literally believing they're a biological sex that they're not. But suppose you meant to say that gender refers to our internal sense of being a man/woman. This doesn't make transgenderism any less incoherent. The notion of "feeling like" a man/woman itself is incoherent, as we've no basis for that comparison. We've all been just the one gender, so we'd have no way of knowing the difference between "feeling like" a man vs. "feeling like" a woman, if there is such a difference at all. Modern gender theory (e.g., transgenderism) remains a logically indefensible worldview, which is reason enough it should never be promoted or facilitated in the youth.
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  5. "Gender refers to our internal sense of being female, male, etc." If that's the definition you're going with, then those calling trans people delusional are right. Because the person is literally believing they're a biological sex that they're not. But suppose you meant to say that gender refers to our internal sense of being a man/woman. This doesn't make transgenderism any less incoherent. The notion of "feeling like" a man/woman itself is incoherent, as we've no basis for that comparison. We've all been just the one gender, so we'd have no way of knowing the difference between "feeling like" a man vs. "feeling like" a woman, if there is such a difference at all. Modern gender theory (e.g., transgenderism) remains a logically indefensible worldview, which is reason enough it should never be promoted or facilitated in the youth.
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  6.  @Zhwazi  "That you do not understand it does not make it incoherent." Naturally, but the reasons I gave do. "Given how you've framed it," Don't worry about how I framed it; where is your refutation of the actual arguments given? "Ideas like "born in the wrong body" and "feel like a gender" are oversimplification we tell 5 year olds" Fine, what is the un-simplified version you think works logically?
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  7.  @Zhwazi  "The reasons you gave are appeals to ignorance" Not at all; in fact, they were direct responses to what I've been told. Now, you're implying you have a better answer that I can't refute, so I'm just waiting to hear that one instead... "I have no reason to think you actually care and will engage with ideas if I actually explain it," I've certainly given you more reason to think I care about the subject matter itself, than you've given me to think you care. Because while I commented on the subject, you've only tried attacking me on a personal level.
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  8. A really good question. It would actually be impossible for anyone to know whether they're "feeling like" a man or woman, since none of us have a basis for that comparison (each of us have only been just the one gender). So we'd have no way of knowing the difference between "feeling like" a man vs. "feeling like" a woman, or indeed if there is such a difference to begin with.
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  9. ​ @Zhwazi  "Gender is a social construct" Sounds so far like you're confusing gender itself with gender roles and norms (which are indeed socially constructed, for the most part, expectations placed on people because of their sex, or what I call gender). "Gender also has ideological characteristics, it is a system of ideas and ideals. Many of those ideals relate to biological characteristics." Okay, still sounds like gender roles and norms. But if we equate gender with these ideas and ideals, this turns out to be unworkable within the rest of modern gender theory (e.g., transgenderism). After all, if someone adheres primarily to the expectations traditionally placed on men, but identifies as a woman, what is their gender at that point? "Gender identity is how you relate your internal sense of self" Here too we find a huge problem. We can't actually know that we're feeling like a man/woman, as we've no basis for that comparison (we've all only been just the one gender). So we'd have no way of knowing the difference between "feeling like" a man vs. "feeling like" a woman, or indeed if such a difference exists at all. "...these social constructs are socially taught to us, and we learn how to navigate in society by performing these genders and seeing how people react to them. It is as easy for a man to learn what it feels like to be a woman as it is to learn what it feels like to be a man." But in reality all they're learning is what it feels like to adhere to certain gender roles or norms. But if I adhered to primarily the gender roles of a woman, but still considered myself a man, how could I learn from that what it feels like to be a woman (since I wasn't a woman at any point)? "Gender dysphoria is gender incongruence that is extremely distressing, and the most effective treatment for it that we know is transition." That may indeed make them feel better, if they've subscribed to modern gender theory in the first place. But it'd be ideal for them to reject transgenderism altogether from the very start. And how would you go about defining "man" or "woman"?
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  10. ​ @Zhwazi  "I'm going to be brief because you're doing the thing I said I thought you'd do." No need to pretend I'm the only one being stubborn here. I'm asking you questions in response to what you say; either you can answer them logically or you can't. "I am not confusing gender and gender roles. Gender roles are part of gender, but all of gender is a social construct, gender roles included." I said "gender roles and norms", because you said gender was made up of ideas and ideals. What else determines someone's gender, on your worldview? "Someone performing masculinity, but whose gender identity is feminine, is still a woman." Okay, so the ideas and ideals wouldn't be what determines their gender. So it seems that definition is being abandoned now. Can you tell me what it means for someone's gender identity to be feminine? Because when I hear the word "feminine", I still think of gender roles and norms, which would result in the same problem I highlighted in your original definition. "Trans people do not actually "feel like" a gender. I didn't even use the word "feel" in my last reply" Fair enough, you said they have an "internal sense". But the counterargument remains the same. Let's say you're one of these "trans women". How can you know what you're "sensing" is what a woman senses and not what a man senses, unless you've sensed both? And if you have sensed both, how do you know your conclusion that you're a woman is the right conclusion? "Transgender people existed before modern gender theory existed, we just didn't call them that." Even granting that for the sake of argument, this does nothing to lend their beliefs credibility. I mean, flat earthers have existed for quite a long time too, yes?
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  11.  @Zhwazi  "I'm not pretending that I'm not being stubborn, but I am saying you're not empathetic or openminded enough to be worth the time" But you haven't shown any signs of being open-minded either. You're disagreeing with me every bit as much as I'm disagreeing with you (and asking fewer questions, I might add, as to what I think and why). As for empathy, we are discussing worldviews from a logical standpoint. Neither of us have necessarily shown empathy because it isn't relevant to what's been said so far. If you were to ask me what I think about the turmoil trans people must be going through, I'd say it must be incredibly difficult and I hope they can overcome it. But that has no bearing on the incoherence of the worldview itself, except that I think they'd be better off rejecting it because of said incoherence. "The way you happily and carelessly mix up concepts (e.g. gender vs gender identity)," I didn't mix them up at all. We were discussing gender, you said it was comprised of ideas and ideals, so I pointed out that these sound a lot like gender roles and norms. And you haven't been able to give any further information on what gender consists of since. "insert words that weren't used (e.g. "feel", "feeling")," A difference without a difference, as I pointed out in my last reply to you. And you still haven't been able to address the fundamental point on how it's impossible for anyone to know what feeling or internal sense they are having.
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  12.  @Zhwazi  "It is the receiver, not the explainer, of a new idea, that needs to be openminded." Which is just a fancy way of saying you are not open-minded enough to accept that you might be wrong, but you expect everyone else to immediately conclude that they are. And I've given various reasons why your model is incoherent. "And yes, it does take empathy, if you reply to everything I say as if I am your enemy, who you must not empathize with as you attempt to assert dominance through facts and logic," See, this is a big problem with your worldview as well. The equation of disagreement with hate, phobia, etc. I should be able to point out where I disagree with you and why, without you interpreting that as me looking at you as an enemy. "you won't make a sincere attempt to understand things in the various possible ways it could be interpreted to select the most likely or strongest formulation," And yet I've been sticking with the subject matter, asking you questions and presenting arguments while you largely ignore them and continue to attack my character... No one is forcing or even obligating you to keep responding, but I won't knowingly let falsehoods just go by.
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