Comments by "Vic 2.0" (@Vic2point0) on "Black Lives Matter explained: The history of a movement" video.

@Ye Olde Conlange Shoppe "the reason saying all lives matter is racist is because it erases the history of black oppression in America" Nonsense. It's just a another way of affirming that every life (including black lives) matter to us, without sounding like an anti-white racist. And there's no contradiction between affirming that all lives matter and acknowledging that black people were oppressed. "and blindly asserts that all lives are equal, when they clearly aren't." So you claim. But so far, no one's been able to actually provide evidence that black people are being kept down by any institution, laws, etc. in America. If anything, there is more in the system to keep non-black people down, considering programs and institutions which explicitly are not available to whites. Take George Floyd, for instance. No evidence whatsoever that it had anything to do with race. A white man named Tony Timpa died at the hands of some cops pretty much the same exact way as Floyd 10 months prior. Differences? Timpa was held down for longer, hadn't committed any crimes, and actually called the cops himself. And of course, the mainstream media didn't cover it much, nor did anyone riot even though the cops got off scot-free.
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As is the very premise of BLM itself. We're asked to just assume that these deaths have something to do with the victims' (or in some cases, non-victims') skin color, without any evidence for that. Same as the claims of "systemic racism", it's really just "Black people have less/more x than white people. Therefore, racism".
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@muuni4454 Oh? So you don't think black lives matter? Because if they do, then what's the problem with us saying all lives matter?
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@Deathbyaspen Yes, indeed, all of them do.
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"What are you assaulting me for?" - George Zimmerman "(To the media) Why are you suggesting that I'm white?" - Also Zimmerman
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And we are still waiting for the evidence that any of these people's deaths had anything at all to do with their skin color.
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Sweet Sunshine "you wouldn't be saying all lives matter IF BLM exist so yes you are basically telling the world that black people do not matter" That doesn't logically follow at all, no. It's true that we wouldn't feel the need to affirm that all lives matter if this silly "Black Lives Matter" slogan wasn't being chanted everywhere, but that's because everyone starts off knowing that all lives matter then you want to make it all about black people. "WE ALL KNOW THAT ALL LIVES MATTER" And we all know that black lives matter. "BUT THERE IS NO EQUALITY ON NON WHITES" There is equality. But you have to actually put in the same effort as those (white or black) people who've been successful, to be successful. Not committing crimes or resisting arrest would be a good start. "ALL UNDER WHITE SUPREMACY" Just another unsubstantiated claim. Just because we (and this is mostly white people but not only) are getting tired of all lies about racism supposedly being so systematic and prevalent in America, doesn't make us racists or white supremacists.
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@madmAn-ky8pd "All lives matter" entails that black lives matter; the Black Lives Matter movement is simply trying to smuggle in the premise that black people are oppressed victims of "systemic racism" when there's not really any evidence of that. There is evidence of unequal outcomes, but not unequal opportunity.
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@madmAn-ky8pd It's not about who is giving the statement, it's about what the facts are. "As a white person" or "As a black person" kind of talk is meaningless. We can find white people who say blacks are oppressed and black people who say they aren't.
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@madmAn-ky8pd With all due respect, "it was used to be racist to black lives matter" doesn't make any sense. Black Lives Matter is a movement, and it's criticized because of its premises, not because of the skin color of its spokesmen or the group it fixates on. And in general, "all lives matter" cannot possibly be a racist statement; it literally announces that everyone's life matters (in this context, regardless of skin color).
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@serenagoat4228 "multiple race complaints"? How bout multiple complaints from white people too?
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@jesusislordsavior6343 "Firstly, there is no need to search out an accusation." Telling me that I'm "hanging my hat on the cause of white identity" sounds very much like an accusation, or criticism. But it's vague, so I was just asking for you to clarify. "If anything, I would like to soothe your aggrievement about BLM and what it represents; maybe it's the other side of something that you are experiencing. Or maybe not." If your point is that I don't know what's going through their minds or some such, granted. I also don't know how schizophrenics feel, what drives them, etc. but that doesn't mean I shouldn't challenge their claims. Especially when they fuel such division, hatred and rioting.
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@lgbtqiandrew I disagree that "fighting for equality" is even what you're doing. We have equal opportunities we just don't have equality of outcome and there could be any number of reasons for that having nothing to do with racism. So it's the very premise of BLM that people are challenging.
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@jeremyashton5040 The problem with your claim is that when people say "All Lives Matter" (which literally means that black lives matter too), people get (or pretend to be) offended. Why is that?
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@jeremyashton5040 Ah. See? If saying that all lives matter is a lie, then who are you excluding? I assume it isn't black people, because you're very much in favor of saying that black lives matter. So which skin color are you saying can die?
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@jeremyashton5040 Then there is no problem with saying all lives matter.
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@1230aqua "because now you act like they don't" What are you even replying to?
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@frankocean99 True enough. There's no need for such a movement. Practically everyone agrees with it. It's only the racists (be they white, black, brown, whatever) who need to be told.
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@Theimmure You're right that "All Lives Matter" is a rebuttal. But it's being painted as a rebuttal to the fact that black lives matter, when it's instead a rebuttal to the implications of the Black Lives Matter movement. "Define equality. We have it, according to what? Encoded law that many have and will continue to ignore?" Opportunities, and when and if encoded law is ignored that can be called out more specifically (and therefore effectively) than by claiming there's this systemic racism holding black people down in general. "Hold on a second. Success?" No. It's not the government's job to ensure everyone has equal success, only equal opportunity. "Resisting arrest and not committing crimes?" Yes, that would be a great start. But sometimes (as in the case of Tony Timpa) bad cops, or bad practices, will still lead to unjustifiable deaths even if you haven't committed any crimes and indeed even called the cops yourself! "Unjust violence and murder due to questionable behavior or practically nothing at all somehow warrants the death of a person as if it isn’t in the hands of the cop wielding the gun." Depends on the specific case, but it often isn't a question of whether or not the person "deserved" to die. "So I suppose anyone can feel they can stand there and tell others what would be a good start to avoid sudden death. Sounds like victim blaming." Not until it's established that they were indeed a victim of someone else's wrongdoing (and not in any way their own). "Apparently we can ignore who receives this treatment the most because all of a sudden we want to focus on the focus themselves rather than the race of the people who suffer from them." The question is not, Is this happening more often to black people? The question is, Is this happening to black people because they're black? At least if you're wanting to talk about racism. If you're wanting to actually solve the problem, then the question is simply how.
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@Theimmure "Perhaps you can point me to the implications that defend actual criminals that are justify apprehended." That's a bit incoherent. But the specific implications would be that this is happening because of racism on a wide scale. And even the cases that people put up front as examples turn out not to be examples of this (e.g., George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks, that guy more recently who thought it'd be a good idea to reach into a car while the cops were warning him to stop and put his hands on his head). "There are a variety of ways to take advantage and put the other in a difficult situation. One may believe they are overcoming the odds that people claim are nonexistent when they pretend we do not live in a shady world, but it’s much more complicated to than that." All fine and good. It is complicated and there are shady characters in power. But is there some massive oppressing force against black people in particular. So far, it doesn't look like it. "Again, it’s not as simple as being “successful,” which is the point I made and the one you seemed to have brushed off." I'm not even sure that's relevant to any argument I've made. But if the claim isn't that it's keeping blacks from being successful, then what is it? "Of course it couldn’t possibly be about whether they deserved it or not." Indeed. That's not the judgement call in the vast majority of these cases. But it's what people focus on when they're trying to be rhetorical. "That is why you stress the details of Tony Timpa’s death. Yet in any other scenario you pretend whether they live or not is their decision," No, I only bring him up to highlight that this is not exclusive to members of any race. "and not the cop that’s been granted the permission to handle a situation in many ways. You change your argument when it’s convenient." Not at all; I'm being perfectly consistent. I'm admitting that sometimes even if no crime has been committed, someone will die at the hands of cops. But I'm also willing to acknowledge the other side to this, which you don't seem to be willing to do.
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@jesusislordsavior6343 Ironic in the sense that you would accuse my comments of being a distraction when 75% of what you type has nothing to do with the topic. "A man died needlessly in police custody, partly through the direct action of one cop and partly through neglect. The cops did not respond to appeals by citizen bystanders who were concerned about the possible outcome." You're still being conveniently vague. What do you think actually killed Floyd? And do you know when/if they called for medical assistance? Because if not, you sure are talking as if you do... "If you consider the cops' behavior acceptable," I never said that. In fact, I agreed that it wasn't. But that doesn't mean a murder charge is correct (or wise, for that matter), and it certainly doesn't give any credence to the claim that racism was involved. "You lack the equipment to understand." Insults, eh? How very Christian.
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@anam.2461 Self. Defense. You can't go banging someone's head into the concrete and not expect to get shot.
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@kentuckysmoose Exactly.
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@Theimmure Well it's irrelevant to some questions but not others. It doesn't prove racism if x happens more to blacks than whites, but if and when that's the case it's worth asking why. I just don't believe in jumping to the conclusion that it's about racism or any other sort of foul play. As for BLM, the underlying premise is that the issues black people face are either exclusive or predominant in "the black community" because of racism. And that's what a lot of people are disagreeing with/challenging. Especially when the examples they keep bringing up turn out not to be because of racism at all.
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@truthtrekker Not sure how that's relevant to the topic. I suppose the word "slaves" could be made to fit it somehow, but the slavery in America today is more of the mind. For example, the American people are mentally enslaved by the mainstream media, social media, Hollywood, etc. to think that racism is flourishing when it isn't. Facts that disagree with the Democrat agenda are being more and more blatantly censored after they've seen what they've been able to get away with (including disrespecting blacks in countless ways).
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@Hulkitout If there's something I said that's incorrect, you should be able to point it out. In the meantime, the OP is absolutely right. "I don't have a gun. Stop shooting" from Michael Brown is a lie, just like most of the claims made by the BLM movement.
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@plantparent6469 That's the claim, but in reality almost all of the names we're told to say (memorize and talk about) are names of black people who did something stupid or reckless when dealing with the cops. And we can parallel experiences with blacks and experiences with whites. Just like Tony Timpa died in almost exactly the same way as George Floyd did, but of course we're not told about Timpa because they can't drum up a "America is racist!" narrative using him. So his name is forgotten. And they did a study a decade or so ago showing that cops are actually more reluctant to shoot when it's a black suspect.
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@jesusislordsavior6343 "Well, if you as a 'white' person must hang your hat on the cause of white identity," Not real sure what this means. Could you elaborate on what you're accusing me of here? Thanks. And in general, your comment doesn't seem to be addressing anything I've actually said. Not sure what your point is.
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@jesusislordsavior6343 (sigh) Okay then, what made you suspect that maybe it's the case that I "must hang my hat on the cause of white identity"? Again, what does this even mean? Because all I did was point out that there is absolutely no evidence that the deaths of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery and others had anything at all to do with racism. And then you said that; I'm just trying to figure out why.
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@jesusislordsavior6343 "The repercussions of the George Floyd murder (and murder it was)" Even though he was already saying he couldn't breathe before he even laid down on the ground (which he asked to do)? I mean, don't get me wrong, the officer who put his knee on his neck after the fact should still be held accountable for it, up to and including prison. But there isn't much evidence that it was premeditated murder, which is what they're going to end up charging him with, which means he might even be acquitted (which means more senseless rioting). "Now I personally DO NOT LIKE the style or substance of BLM messaging. I am the sort of person who stays clear of public protests." Yeah, me, I'm fine with protesting. I'm just not fine with the faulty premise that George Floyd was killed because he was black. "But I think you are COMPLETELY WRONG in your estimation that racism 'had nothing to do with' the death of George Floyd." Why? Especially in this case, the two of them even knew each other personally, so there'd be more reason to suspect a personal vendetta was involved, than racism. And are you aware that this happens to white people too? Just 10 months prior to this incident, a white man named Tony Timpa died in pretty much the same exact way. He was actually held down longer by the cops, and he hadn't even committed any crimes. He had called the cops himself and ended up dying for it. "The behavior of those cops was absolutely reprehensible, scarcely explicable EXCEPT in the context of racial animus;" Not sure what that last part means, but I'm with you up until that point. "Something had to be done, though 'defunding police' is a foolish slogan IMO." Agreed. "I would go so far as to say that one who DENIES the role of racism in this murder-" Which you still haven't provided any evidence for whatsoever. "must be PARTIAL in his racial attitude, or else incredibly naive." Name-calling won't suffice as evidence, either. "I credit you with considerable intelligence; I do not think that you are naive. So, in light of what you have just said, I don't think that my 'hat' comment was far off base." I'm still trying to figure out what it even meant. But if you're implying that I'm racist, then I'll ask for evidence of that as well (but won't hold my breath expecting you to actually provide it).
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@jesusislordsavior6343 "We are not speaking of accidental death, as in manslaughter." Indeed, we are. It's going to be hard for them to argue in a court of law that the officer intended to kill Floyd, in front of all those witnesses. Heck, it's hard enough to argue that the knee was the primary cause of death in general. "nevertheless it was motivated by hatred." I think so too. But that doesn't = racism, either. "I am not saying that GF's race was the ONLY factor which caused his death," We shouldn't be saying it was any factor, since we don't have evidence for that claim. "but if it played NO part, then the officers' error is doubly difficult to understand." I don't see how. Again, these two knew each other prior to the incident. And don't forget about Tony Timpa. "If a personal vendetta was involved independently of racial bias, it may be difficult to show in court, because we are dealing with a rather stereotypical interaction that is usually interpreted in racial terms." Therein lies the problem. It's typically interpreted in racial terms, even when there's no reason to do so. "Now I was not familiar before with the Tony Impala case, which deserved equal attention if it happened as you describe." It was Tony Timpa, and you can find the video here on YouTube. Might also look up Daniel Shaver and Kelly Thomas, which are even more egregious. "However you cannot enlist that terrible misfortune to disprove racial bias in the GF case." The burden of proof isn't on me in the first place. You're the one making the claim that race was a factor; I'm simply asking you to substantiate the claim. "There is no necessary connection apart from police indiscretion and lack of discipline." The point of bringing it up is simply to show that this happens to white people as well, therefore there is no reason to jump to the assumption that Floyd's death had anything to do with his skin color. "But I don't hear any qualified expressions of sympathy for black folks who are having a hard time, whether they 'deserve' it or not." Notice that I never said anything about George Floyd (or any other black person) "deserving" what happened to them. But why would I express sympathy for black people going through hard times in this particular conversation? This isn't about black people going through hard times; it's about one specific black man and some cops. "But I cannot see beyond the letters of this page into your heart. It remains a closed book to me, and maybe that is just as well." If you want to know something specific, all you gotta do is ask. It'd be a lot better than making assumptions, which you did appear to be doing earlier. And the reason I quote you is simply to make it clear which part I'm responding to. Nothing rude about it. But I will gladly assure you that I'm not trying to be rude to you at all.
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@jesusislordsavior6343 Nope. I'm using the same definition of "accident" as anybody else in all other contexts. But if there's something I said that you think is false, feel free to correct it. "Do you mean that GF's death was not intended?" I don't remember making that claim per se. But I think it will be hard for anyone to prove that death was the intended result. "Do you mean that the officers had no control over whether GF lived or died?" Didn't say that either. At the very least, they probably could've gotten him medical help sooner (I say "probably" because I don't recall just when that was considered, via the transcript). "they appear to have had options to do right, which they chose not to exercise." I'm inclined to agree. But just out of curiosity, what specifically are you saying they should've done differently/sooner? "The question may enter in, 'was abandonment of some of their duties justified by the alleged bad character of Mr. Floyd?'" Not at all. "And in evaluating their professional conduct (as well as the quality of their own citizenship) it might be asked, 'did they allow emotional factors (including race prejudice)" Where is the evidence of either? "to interfere with proper decision-making?' At first sight, that certainly appears to be the case." Based on what, exactly? Because again, you're making implications here and refusing to give any rationale behind them. And yes, I see how a narrative can be twisted. But it doesn't mean it was/is being twisted here. "And so too were the officers who watched GF die doing their jobs'" That would depend on how quickly they called for medical assistance, primarily. "You SEEM to be in a hurry to justify the officers' conduct." Nope. I'm just not on board with making assumptions either way, especially given the footage and the transcript. "If you wish to put away black radical activism from among you, you're going to have to address problems which encourage its growth." Yeah, like the lies about widespread and systemic racism.
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@jesusislordsavior6343 Not sure what the vast majority of your spiel is even about. But, "Therefore it is no insult to those cops to say that their actions were EVIL," I could care less what is/isn't an insult to them. But I did simply ask you what specifically they did wrong, and I find it odd that you would react with riddles and vague speech rather than simply answer the question. "The principle remains that evil deeds ought to be punished. However you may beg to differ." We weren't even talking about that, but sure, I agree that evil deeds should be punished. "I've declined consideration of your other points, which I have come to regard as a distraction." Ohh the irony.
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@serenagoat4228 "Multiple race complaints" don't mean anything when the common trend is to yell "Racism" without evidence. "i think it’s pretty clear if derek was black and floyd was white justice would’ve been served much sooner." But the facts don't bear that out. Just like they don't reflect any favoritism when the victim is white (e.g., Tony Timpa died pretty much the same exact way and none of the cops involved did any jail time whatsoever). So no. No evidence of racism at all, much less of systemic racism.
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@serenagoat4228 Just out of curiosity, have you watched the full video? Read the full transcript? Because I did. They actually took things very slow with him. Waited to close the car door since he was (already) saying he couldn't breathe. Even let him get back out of the car and lay down when he requested to. And there is an autopsy saying he had a lethal amount of drugs in his system. I'm not saying that the knee on his neck didn't interact with that in some way and cause if not merely speed up his death, but the picture is not as black and white as you're painting it. There's a precedent when it comes to death from overdosing on these drugs, whereas I cannot find a single other case where someone died from being restrained as Floyd was. It's actually a pretty common restraint.
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@Mrmatt-pt3xm Just so you know, I Liked your last comment but it would appear that YouTube removed my like... Yeah... They're getting just plain creepy now.
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