Comments by "Roy Sinar" (@roysinar8238) on "Motherboard" channel.

  1. +Mizz Tiger what? Are you worried about the competition?
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  2. Mizz Tiger never substitute bluff and misinformation for research and facts, it has already backfired. Both sides have their fanatics and misplaced beliefs. Attempting to prevent whales being killed is not enforcing anyones belief on another, it is simply one side trying to stop the other killing whales and the other side following their tradition as they are entitled to regardless of the international condemnation. Their law says they can and so they do.
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  3. +Mizz Tiger I'll keep it short so as not to bore you:"According to the experts within this field they harvest 0.1 down to 0.0001 of a population that has a reproductional rate of 2.5 to 3.5 % annually" Your statement. Wrong and I proved it for you. Shall we start there. My comments are long because they contain good information. Feel free to disagree.
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  4. I don't send them any thanks, I give to the Red Cross. But it is important to recognise that they do actually do some useful stuff. The Japanese are currently being dealt with by the Australians after they broke the ruling against them. If no one had been there to see them taking heavy oil into the restricted zone, there wouldn't be a ruling. Mr Watson seems to be a marmite kind of character. People seem to either like him or hate him. I personally have no real opinion on him.
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  5. Then if I were you Asbjorn, I would be out there supporting the Sea Shepherd while they campaign for cleaner oceans (and they are doing more about it than the Faroes). Meanwhile I am sure the supermarket will be happy to sell you healthy food.
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  6. I knew what you were saying, and I did it was linked above. It is even in Danish I believe so should be better for you as I had to translate it.
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  7. asbjørn poulsen This is a genetic disorder and has nothing to do with consumption of whales or non-consumption of whales. This is more likely to be related to an isolated population with a smaller than normal gene pool. As such any rare genetic disorder is more likely to be of a higher concentration than larger, less isolated gene pools. I certainly don't see any evidence that eating pilot whales "cures" this genetic disorder. It is interesting though as genetics is kind of a hobby for me.
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  8. Christian Sverri I have to admit you made me chuckle. The various slaughterhouses I have been lucky (not sure that is the right term) to visit seem to me to be more humane than drive hunting whales. We will have to disagree on that but then I have covered the relative merits of farming against the hunting of wild animals in great detail and so far no one has managed to argue that they are similar or relative to each other and you areno exception. I'm not in a position to comment on how good, or bad, a whales life might have been. I do know that there are concerns about the damage caused to the whales from the concentrations of the various toxins they ingest and consequently can pass on through being eaten by humans. There is a lot of concern that some of the beachings and strange behavior in pilot and similar whales, might be down to toxin based poisoning having effects on the internal organs and brains of the whales. So unless you have some psychic link to these whales, you are no better placed to describe their lives as good, bad or indifferent. I should imagine when being driven into the shore and then killed, we could certainly suggest they are having a bad day. The swearing is rather humorous to be honest (like when you first hear your child say "poo" and they think it is a bad word) but there is no need for it, it is not big and certainly not very clever. But if you need to be supplied with some that are actually really funny or vaguely insulting let me know and we can exchange some on another medium where children won't see them. It is more a matter of being a bit more adult about the whole thing and better manners. You seem like a decent sort, I don't think you really need it.
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  9. Christian Sverri I would certainly agree that the efforts of Sea Shepherd has in fact, increased the amount of people eating whale. In that people do not like others telling them not to do something and so will do it intentionally as an act of defiance. I don't support the views of those who call names and generally abuse others for their views as it does no good. I certainly wouldn't think of anyone as mentally sick because they have a differing opinion to mine and have not used similar kinds of insults etc. I have been called a Nazi by grind supporters so they are just as bad as the anti-grind supporters. Most of my points have been around the medical evidence around the toxicity of the meat and flesh and the cruelty of the method of drive hunting of wild animals. Most hunting allows for animal selection to pick the animal to be killed, the grind takes in whole generations regardless of age sex or breeding cycle. Current genetic data shows that there are smaller distinctly different populations within the general pilot whale population. Should this data be confirmed, then it would render the Grind as unsustainable. So my concerns are about the cruelty of it and the unnecessary slaughter of these whales, much of which is not eaten. The difference with me is that I concentrate on the medical evidence and the science to show how it really doesn't need to happen, certainly not in the numbers it does. If anything the hyperbole whipped up in the wake of Sea Shepherd acts to motivate grind supporters such, that no matter how much good evidence is supplied, they will not listen to even moderate argument. I don't call names, I don't swear about it and I don't get overly passionate about it. At no point do I forget that no mater how much I might disagree with it, the Grind is still very much a choice of the Faroe Islanders. The only way it will stop is if they choose to stop. As I am not a Sea Shepherd supporter, although I do recognise their work across the globe along with their faults, I do not much care about what you or anyone else thinks about them.
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  10. At least Asbjorn tries to engage in a language that is not his first language and I'll give him plenty of credit for doing so. I don't correct his use of words as he is understandable, far more so than I would be in Danish. The fact his arguments are flawed takes nothing away from the credit he should get for engaging the likes of me in my language.
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  11. +真田優 shouldn't you be holding up a large placard saying "Research". I like the use of calling people Nazis. We could be forgiven for thinking your mind has gone rogue. If only you knew what these things mean.
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  12. 真田優 Why do you ignore facts? Why do you keep spouting ridiculous insults? Why are you rogue? Which human rights have the anti-whaling activists ignored? Here is your chance to start a proper dialogue.
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  13. 真田優 Really? OK lets try these on you. Whale consumption is declining in Japan. http://de.whales.org/node/7545 Or maybe this. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/10/14/national/researcher-aims-to-bust-myth-of-japans-whale-eating-culture/#.VsvC9_mLRD8  Yes years ago, maybe after the war when the country was on its knees and at the mercy of its neighbours, yeah whale meat was OK. These days no. Europeans have been whaling as long if not longer, so what makes it Japans culture? What makes killing endangered whales OK when the population doesn't really like the taste? You know I don't really expect a proper answer but a bit more venom and a bit more hiss.
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  14. 真田優 Maybe you should. I made no comment on whale numbers. And you call me an idiot? Of course you mean the whaling for research. Not for food. Anyway I am glad you admit you are wrong and we need not discuss Japanese whaling on a thread which doesn't cover it. Have a good day, enjoy your whale meat.
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  15. 真田優 You are just a liar and a fool. Go on try find an insult you can hurl, it is easier than proving yourself intelligent. Anyway I am off to bed, so feel free to spout some insult and I'll laugh at you in the morning.
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  16. +真田優 Shhh. Bed time.
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  17. +Rahul Modgil "Did I say any lies?" yes you did. As I pointed out the majority of the Sea Shepherd crew (if not all) are vegan. After that there was a bit of ranting about different animals that are killed for food elsewhere. You forgot to include dogs. there is a dog eating festival somewhere. Standing your ground doesn't make your point right. As you can see, the majority of the pro-grind claims, opinions and justifications are not winning on this thread. That could be because none of them have any evidence to back up their claims. "LET'S SEE SOME NEW,ORIGINAL,GROWN-UP INSULTS", no lets not. It doesn't add to the dialogue and I do not think there is such a thing as a "grown-up insult".
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  18. +Rahul Modgil yeah why not. I do care to answer. So in India, according to their religion, Hinduism, the cow is a sacred animal. Therefore they are allowed to wander at will where they like. Apart from two provinces there are no legal slaughterhouses for cows. The slaughterhouses in those two provinces are supposed to provide the beef for all those in India who are not such dedicated Hindus. So in short I would point out to them that their country consumes beef and transports those cows in extremely poor conditions to legal and illegal slaughterhouses. The illegal slaughterhouses, operating outside of the law also operate outside of regulation and therefore humane treatment is highly unlikely. I would take the time to point out to them that their country, like mine, farms these bovines and does so as a source of food. Therefore in most cases these cows are looked after and cared for to make sure they are fit for human consumption. I would also discuss with them the advantages of such a practice against the killing of wild animals which can lead to the ingestion of unwanted extras; parasites, chemicals and infections (bush meat, deer and whales). So in many ways farming animals for food and thus being able to control the quality of the meat is part of the reason farming is seen as one of the biggest cultural steps made by the human race. It allowed communities to stay in one place rather than having to follow their food around. As such trades could be established and not everyone was required for the supply of food. A large part of the uncertainty that surrounded the supply of food was removed thanks to farming. Now all that is well and good, tell me why the overkill of wild animals, that can barely be eaten safely, that migrate through many other countries boundaries, should not be a cause for others? If one African nation started mass killing migrating herds of wild animals that travel through other nations, do you not think those other nations might have some sort of say in that practice? No one is dictating to the Faroese as they operate inside their own law on the practice of whaling and as such, no one can. So what are you protesting about? All I am doing is pointing out the inaccuracies in the claims being used by those supporting the practice. They say it is for food, and I point out how little they can eat and how much they catch (thanks to the grind records this is quite easy). They say it is sustainable and I point out the only organisation to say that is the Faroese Whaling organisation. Even a group setup to support Nordic whaling NAMMCO do not say it is sustainable. Their best guess is that there are between 75,000 and 250,000 Long Finned Pilot Whales in the North East Atlantic. That is a massive margin for error, people just don't know the numbers. So if you can't be sure of the numbers, how can you clam it is sustainable? They say it is humane, tricky one this one as only a pilot whale could really answer. Pretty much most whale experts and scientists say it isn't. Personally I am with them. See I told you I would get back to you, I just had a busy weekend.
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  19. Then I am right :). As long as we agree on that. That and that your insistence that Sea Shepherd were "running away" is inaccurate.
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  20. +Poppin DEEZNUTS I thought they were all supposed to be vegan.
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  21. +breezyjr Other than any intern in any major company. I agree with you on that volunteers should never have to pay but use a bit of brain.
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  22. +Olaf Sunstein well at least that enigma is sorted out.
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  23. +Abella Seksa You have something against vegans? Why?
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  24. +Nina Nyggju Some ill informed people liken drive hunting to farming. They think they can compare the two but they can't. Some ignore the whole driving part of the hunt and what it does to intelligent wild animals.
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  25. +Abella Seksa He has a point. You do seem to have some personal grudge against Paul Watson. A lot of general bad mouthing etc. The thing is, no matter how much you dislike Watson, Sea Shepherd and the anti-grind people, it is no reason to justify the grind. I've lost count of the threads where pro-grind supporters have to give up due to a lack of anything in the way of science, research or opinion backing them up.
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  26. +Solomon Kincheloe (kinchnaga) The fall out caused by this last year has been significant. Politically the islands and their government has been under pressure from those around them and cruise firms have dropped the islands from the list of destinations. The Danish government has faced a number of protests and some political fallout around this as a result and may face a court case as they allowed the Faroese to overstep their jurisdiction.
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  27. Had it and it was brief.
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  28. +Nina Nyggju Your figures are wrong. If you actually stop to check it could well be that the grind endangers the whale numbers and you are using the daft formula from the 14 point script. The one that is inaccurate and is easily proven to be. I'll go figure for figure with you and prove you wrong. All you have to do is put your hand up and admit it. Stop quoting outdated and misleading information or get ready to put that hand up.
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  29. +Nina Nyggju he is right about the dolphins being on the endangered list. They do kill them as well. Would you not consider it prudent not to go around killing pilot whales when nobody knows if it is sustainable? Surely the right thing to do would be to stop until some decent population figures can be obtained and therefore then decide if it sustainable or not. That would be the right thing to do.
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  30. Nina Nyggju You are correct. Pilot whales are listed as "data deficient". In other words not enough is known about population figures for them to be determined as requiring protection. Strictly speaking the Atlantic White Sided Dolphin and the Rissos Dolphin are not on the endangered list either. They are on the protected list from ASCOBANS (along with the Long Finned Pilot Whale). Oddly while doing your research for you it has shown Denmark to have acted adversely to the treaty they signed up to. It is applicable to any member state "that exercises jurisdiction over any part of the range of a species covered by the Agreement or whose flag vessels engage in operations adversely affecting small cetaceans in the Agreement area". With two frigates protecting the grind, it would put them outside of the agreement and contrary to that which they signed up to. Whoops.
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  31. +Nina Nyggju and I said that you were correct. What problem do you have with that? I gave you their actual status, which is "data deficient". Any issues with that?
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  32. +Nina Nyggju of course to accept that I am correct would undermine the idea that the grind is sustainable, but your silence would suggest you can see that already. You have won the first argument in the pro-grind history with me and you don't acknowledge it? Can't think why.
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  33. http://www.miklagardur.fo/
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  34. Abella Seksa so you don't have a link then? So you can make a random claim without any basis or evidence and when I say it is inaccurate you say that I have to back up my claims with evidence? In that case, the Faroe Islanders do not eat all of the whale meat from the whales they kill. That is my claim. If you want to question it you better have evidence.
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  35. Abella Seksa you are wrong, the Islanders who hunt it claim they eat it all. The figures would suggest otherwise and it is contradicted by other groups. I don't need to prove it. You have nothing to back up your claim and as such mine is just as good without me having to bother to support it.
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  36. +asbjørn poulsen Oddly Sea Shepherd campaign for less pollution in the oceans and are actively removing ghost nets from the oceans to prevent fish getting tangled up in those nets. I honestly think that once you guys get over your mutual hatred for each other, you actually share a lot.
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  37. +asbjørn poulsen I certainly do not condone any of the online messages that are abusive or incite violence. But it is not one way traffic. One grind supporter used the term Nazi to describe Sea Shepherd supporters in a recent thread. The only person hurling abuse in the video is a Faroe Islander. They described the Sea Shepherd supporters as "the enemy" and jeered at them when they were arrested. The leader of the land crew actually describes the Faroe Islanders as nice and generous (obviously while they are not mid grind). One was disturbed by the change in the islanders during the grind. Not one of the Sea Shepherd crew in the documentary says anything nasty about the islanders. Unfortunately once things move to the internet you deal with the darker side of some peoples personalities and you get the sort of drivel and hate speech you mentioned. The islanders do not "need" these whales to survive or even to prevent poverty or hunger. I know it and you know it. I don't care about the various claims and counter claims, if those whales stopped coming what would happen? Nothing much, the islanders would commemorate this part of their history in another less barbaric way. They could drop these daft laws which are causing cruise lines and some tourists to stay away. Think how many tourists would come if there were whale watching cruises.
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  38. +asbjørn poulsen so you want less tourists. The whales do not feel any pain. There has been a misunderstanding between Sea Shepherd and a rowing competition and the movie doesn't show any aggression. OK I can't comment on whether the rest of the Faroes share your view on less tourists. Seems odd though and an unusual defence for the grind to be sure. Most slaughter houses are very heavily regulated and any that throw and kick animals are shut down. They do use electricity to stun the animals before killing them so they do not feel pain during the slaughter. The average time to death TTD for the whales is in minutes after the hook is inserted and the killing of the whole pod can take over an hour. These whales sit in the blood of their families and they do know family and can communicate, waiting to be killed. Licensed or not the guys with the lances need time to administer the killing blow. I would have to disagree with you on this.I can't think of a more brutal way for them to leave this world. I can't comment on the whole rowing competition thing as I have not seen any details on this. It is possible someone waved a knife and I suppose that could be considered aggressive. Do you dispute the man swearing at the Sea Shepherd crew in the video? Do you dispute that they were described as the enemy and jeered when arrested?
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  39. +asbjørn poulsen seen it and that incident was dealt with by the authorities. All slaughterhouses are required to comply with regulations or face action. This one didn't and as such was deslt with.
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  40. +asbjørn poulsen not sure that addresses the issue. I didn't question the various regulations. You questioned slaughterhouses.
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  41. What are your thoughts on the genetic research by NAMMCO which may prove a genetic population is in the low thousands.
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  42. +asbjørn poulsen yeah in 1989. And that is an estimate. Got anything on the genetic research yet? Errr let me guess. No.
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  43. Yes thanks. And that data is significantly newer than any figures on numbers. The estimates are so inaccurate that the confidence range is massive. At worst it makes the grind unsustainable. They hardly help your cause.
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  44. +asbjørn poulsen what you kill 1600 whales a year? So in 2007 the number could have been between 75,682 and 216,812. In order to make the grind sustainable it was reckoned between 50,000 to 80,000 pilot whales are required for an average grind of 678 whales a year. So if the figures state that 75,682 might be the figure for pilot whales around the Faroes, and up to 80,000 might be needed to make the grind sustainable, I believe I have every right to suggest that the grind might be unsustainable. Those are the figures, got an issue with them feel free to take it up with NAMMCO. It certainly isn't as cut and dried as as most supporters make out. Although NAMMCO do point out that their figures are estimates and their figures are not that accurate. But as grind supporters like to use those figures it makes them fair game for me. That's not being brainwashed, that is checking the figures and being able to use a calculator before making absurd claims. We did other stupid stuff for thousands of years (killing "witches", slavery, conquest etc.) and longevity is no basis to justify anything. Just because you have always done it does not mean it is not incredibly stupid in the modern day. It is called progress.
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  45. +asbjørn poulsen 0.2% of 800,000 is 1600. Less whale more school mate.
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  46. +asbjørn poulsen Honestly, how do you lot catch whales?
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  47. +asbjørn poulsen Don't flatter yourselves. While I don't follow much of the Sea Shepherd campaigns, I do know, they spend a lot of their time elsewhere. The Faroes are just one such campaign, but I guess the islanders feel like they are after them. Maybe if you checked out what your "nemesis" is up to, you might have a better idea of reality. So your figures are wrong by your own admission and the best you have is to point out "Hey look there goes another bad man". Bit weak don't you think. I'm up for a bit more of this if you like, but you are running out of space to wiggle.
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  48. +asbjørn poulsen Calling for proof is great but I have a reputation for providing it. Are you that desperate to justify your tradition despite everything stacking against you? You don't have a good reason, you can't put in a decent effort at disputing my figures or evidence. Every time you just try a poor attempt at questioning my claims/evidence. Then next thing you know it is back to the Sea Shepherd stuff, despite me hardly ever referring to Sea Shepherd. It is getting a bit pitiful. I don't feel sorry for the islanders I deal with as they do like to use their 14 point script and really climb into the anti-grind supporters. The 14 point script really sucks if anyone spends a bit of time reading.
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  49. +asbjørn poulsen are you accusing me of hiding? At least that is more honest. No daft figures or claims, just we want to kill whales and so we will. In that you are correct unless something changes. Doesn't make it any better and will continue to cause people to complain about it. Personally I can hope that by stripping away false facts and reasons, some islanders might realise that they don't need to do it.
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  50. +asbjørn poulsen apparently it's now just you and Greenland hunting pilot whales, and they kill a lot less. So who would you like to point the finger of blame at now in order to try and distract attention. Whose fault would you like it to be this time? What do you know about what you need as it seems to be in stark contrast to the various surveys and evidence? One idiot saying we need this or that whether they live in one place or another is still just an idiot. If I am wrong dispute my figures and evidence with something tangible. You talk about farming in other countries and go on about animals in cages etc. What gives you the right to talk about that unless we have the right to talk about what it is you do? Oh we wouldn't know because we don't live there. How do you know? You don't live here. You don't live in the US. You don't live in France, or Spain, or Africa. Yet you see the films and the documentaries and say "Hey look, you can't criticise us because this is what you do". But we see the films the documentaries, some of us read extensively and create evidence you don't seem able to dispute, but you say "How can you know, you don't live here". I answered your concerns on farming in my country and you seem unwilling to fight that corner as you know I was right. I raised my concerns on your whale mass culling, you fought that and lost on evidence. Now you want to base your defence on how wrong others are too? Do yourself a favour and be honest and say you do it because you like it so we can end this embarrassing discourse. It is becoming more one sided than a grind.
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