Youtube comments of E M (@em5522).
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There's an argument I like that says this play was meant to be a satiric reflection on the "ideals" of society during Shakespeare's days and of how actually far from reality those ideals tend to be. Idk if that was part of the actually point of the play, but I thought the argument fit pretty well regardless.
I mean, you have Bianca, who represents the general view of an ideal maiden, but isn't. Katharine is the general depiction of a shrew but is also the only one with a sane head and her turning is more jarring. Petruchio, a man who plays more as the comic relief or fool, all bound in squalor and an inability to control himself as anything near a proper "gentleman," despite being the main love interest and de facto "hero" of the story. Bianca's suitors, who are "upright" gentlemen in the eyes of society, but don't amount to much more than Petruchio at their core,... I can go on.
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Hybe already stated it was going to do more artist indirect-involvement business a long time ago. Things like these games, webtoons, kdramas, etc. that have the artists' name without their full involvement shouldn't come as a surprise. Sure, they could make content match the artists better, but obviously, the company will go into avenues where they don't need to limit themselves. Plus, the artist still gets their promo and coins while not having to unnecessarily expend time/energy on creating more and varied content, but they're still able to profit from it all the same.
I'd understand any backlash if this was hurting the artists' image or if done without their consent or done in a way that fools the consumers, but I'm not seeing any of that happening here.
No one's forcing anyone to buy anything (heck, the webtoon is actually free!). And no one is being forced to consume anything either. You don't need to go into any of these things to properly enjoy the artists' music.
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Or, and hear me out, if you're looking at this as a shadow vs ego perspective (given how it's talking about his base urges vs his perceived goodness), it's a warning against mishandling all aspects of oneself and a stress in the need to find balance. I say this because one can argue that neither Jekyll nor Hyde are his true self, yet they are still personas of the same person.
You can take the "freedom" aspect as symbolic for drug addiction, but it can also be argued that such ill-conceived traits (impatience, apathy, anger, sloth, unreasonableness, etc.) exist within all of us and aren't things that can disappear, or are actually even all inherently "bad."
Rather than saying to not indulge in these "freedoms" at all, as Dr. Jekyll does with his "good" persona, it's healthier to learn to manage these traits and find a balance so as to not overwhelm oneself with the pressures of suppressing innate emotions in order to conform with the perception of what is "good," all while not overindulging in inhibitions to the point that one becomes a danger to oneself and society.
Edit: I'm only pointing this out because these interpretations give us 2 contradicting messages of the story that I thought were interesting contrasts: non-indulgence vs self-management (which include a balance for some indulgence). I definitely agree that if you're in trouble, for any reason, don't stop yourself from seeking/accepting help.
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That's what gets me abt this, in particular. My concern is also the implications that are conveyed to the audience with swapping THIS character, in particular.
The other characters would come across as racists, and worse, bc of the type of person Snape actually is, the story could end up conveying the racism as justified.
He "looks" shifty, mean, terrible bc he IS shifty, mean, and terrible. Lily was warned off him bc he actually does hang out with the "wrong crowd" to do "bad things" and he IS an actual danger to others by his own malice.
Like, what kind of message is that supposed to convey to the audience when everyone ends up being right abt him by also being bigots?
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I hope you guys do an in depth report on this case.
I read articles that interviewed her saying that she was encouraged by military doctors to undergo the surgery she did and that her superiors knew about this too. Also, she stated that she already came out to her unit before the surgery and that this didn't seem to be an issue with the people around her (it sounds like the decision for discharge was more so about anti-lgbt groups and the army review board).
It just seems strange to me that on a personal level, there didn't seem to be much negative reaction with the military personnel around her, but when this case went to 3rd parties, it was met with more conservative backlash.
She apparently was diagnosed with gender dysphoria but she was already being treated by army doctors while she was serving without any issues arising too.
So, I'd like to hear more about transgender rights, particularly in the military, and cases that have dealt with the subject before, as well as laws that relate to these cases (there doesn't seem to be any military laws directed explicitly towards transgender, but rather towards medical disorder, which I find ironic as she was being treated already and was still able to serve).
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For me, Reborn Rich just hits me in my Achilles' heel. I'm just a big fan of the reincarnation, transmigration, time travel genres, and want them to make a comeback in popular tv media.
There are so many good webtoons and manhwas that do this (Solo Leveling, Omniscient Reader, Trash Count, etc.). Or other similar ones that are also low-fantasy and modern, reality focus, like Medical Return and Debut or Die. Or some with romance focus, like Goodbye, In-law or The Newlywed Game.
There's just a lot and I hope they all get turned into kdramas.
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Think of it this way. These type of things (webtoons, games, merch, etc.) allow fans to enjoy a variety of content related to the artists, while allowing the artists to collect a profit without having to put in extra work. They may do a little promo and photo-opt and might even come up with the concepts, but that's abt it. The main work comes from whoever is producing the content.
This way, the artists can better focus on creating new music (the thing they actually want to do) and have more opportunities for a longer break bc fans will be able to focus on other new things related to the artists during those times too. This let fans be busy with smt without having to experience a dry spell while the artist is either resting or in the middle of crafting their music.
This gives the artists an easy avenue for promotion and profit that wouldn't require as much of their energy to oversee. Additionally, bc the content is so varied, this allows the artists to reach out to new types of fans (ppl who are more into webtoons/kdramas/games but not as interested in kpop might give the music more of a chance--this is how I got into BTS myself, from watching Namjoon host a variety show, and I wasn't that into kpop before BTS).
Plus, bc these things aren't strictly related to the music, we fans can choose whether or not to partake in them at our leisure. We don't actually miss out on anything related to the music by not looking into this stuff, and a lot of what's released is actually free too. We can choose to ignore it, but there are obviously fans out there who want to consume these content. No one's being forced or pressured into checking any of this out either.
I'm just saying that as long as it's not hurting the artists and isn't done without their consent, I don't see the problem with it. There's clearly a market for these things (all the merch has been sold-out despite the prices and the webtoon has great global ratings), so I'm not surprise that the company would move into them.
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No, her mom might voluntarily cook food for her but they admit that she supports herself. Her mom's real problem is that they're both getting older but the daughter's income isn't stable and she (from mom's POV) doesn't have a reliable support to fall back on once mom is gone (I also find the grandkid excuse flimsy because she also has a son and probably expects kids from him too; I wondered that's why that avenue wasn't mentioned for grandkids). Yet since the daughter doesn't contact mom that often, grandkids could also be mom's aim for them to keep in touch more too because of family culture, as well as force her to find a more stable lifestyle.
But I happen to be of the mindset that if you want something, you have to work hard in order to get it (which is very much part of Asian culture). Realistically, because it's been 2 years and she hasn't developed the skills for rapping despite all of her efforts, she needs to reevaluate how she's progressing in her goal and will have to make the choice of either changing her approach and hope she finds a way or keeping the same and not progress much further. She at least shows passion for rapping, even though she started because of an attraction to ZICO. She's kept at it for 2 years and has changed her goal to being on the same level as him by rapping about the social injustices of the world. That's actually quite admirable.
As for marriage, I'm also of the mindset that if you want a happy marriage, you have to go into it willingly. It's not some fate you can just resign yourself to, because that tends to lead to a broken home and there are enough of those out there. Marrying just to keep your parents happy isn't fair to or good for you or the spouse.
And ultimately, mom needs to realize that her daughter is a grown-ass woman, who must make her own life choices. If she made her convictions, no one's going to be able to stop her. Rather than pressure her daughter, she has to make the hard decision to let her be. Who knows, maybe her daughter will change her mind down the road, but she's just going to ruin her own health and current relationship by being continuing as she is.
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It's true that people shouldn't be brushed with the same broad strokes just for belonging in the same industry, especially considering that there are so many in this industry who are barely connected or have hardly any real control over their peers. However, this case may shed some light on the problems that may show the need for better accountability and proper self-management within the culture of the kpop community. I don't think it's fair or realistic to hold idols on a pedestal, in that their actions are above reproach, or expect them to be held at an unreasonably high standard, in that they're not permitted to have common, fallible human traits. Crimes against human rights should not be distinguished by positions, but not every human flaw should be considered a crime because of position either.
Yet, that aside, I do think the celebrity parts of this case are overshadowing its more troubling aspects: the potential and unexposed corruption of law enforcement and government officials. I'm surprised that while the chats, as well as prior statements, indicated acts of bribery among police officers and criminal behavior with potential people linked to government, these allegations aren't making headlines. Furthermore, we aren't hearing how investigations concerning them are going, at least, not to the level that we hear of the idols.
Don't get me wrong, I think what these people did was sick and criminal, but I feel that is so on a more outer level. I fear that part might be a shallow shell covering up a deeper concern on a national level. One that is being swept over by the glitz and glamour of a celebrity scandal.
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@김모모-d9z which is really weird tbh, bc that situation and BTS are different. That guy actively did things to avoid enlistment by himself, which is what caused the gp to turn against him. He was never even considered for any sort of exemption by anybody either, unlike with BTS, who has recieved legislative support for an exemption. Also, unlike that guy, BTS, themselves, have never made moves to avoid enlistment and have, in fact, not sought for an exemption either. It's other people who are seeking an exemption for them instead.
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@swapnagupta370 sure, I'm not saying that it doesn't deserve to be called out or she should be kept uninformed. I'm only saying that it's a bit much to expect ppl to know everything just bc they have the internet or went to school.
And a good school system doesn't mean much, in and of itself, either. If SK is focused and specialized, by and large, in every aspect of history on all levels of education, then I can see where you're coming from. But best education system doesn't guarantee that all students are highly knowledgeable in all areas of academics (otherwise, specialized majors wouldn't be a thing at all).
Plus, WW2 is not the only big event to ever happen in history. Unless you take classes purely focused on ww2, a general school system mostly goes over basics and will focus primarily on whatever involves their country, in particular.
And just bc SK has a generally good school system doesn't mean that all of its schools are at the same level or that all the students are also going to retain everything either, esp knowledge that doesn't directly pertain to them.
I mean, do you remember everything you were ever tested on in school, even in major exams? Do you remember everything your school taught over ww2 that isn't related to you or your country?
Again, calling her out for the clothes isn't wrong, and it's good to get ppl informed abt things like this. And unless there's smt to show that she did have prior knowledge, condemning her for not knowing better beforehand, esp when you don't actually know her or what she knows, is also ignorance and an unnecessary malice.
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Buy first and listen later...bc they have faith in them.
Yeah, that pretty much reflects my BTS comeback/album buying habits. It also reflects my habits of buying a brand when I'm already invested in the product (like a movie franchise or book series).
Bc I already know that I'm receptive to the product, I then am able to act in a manner that enhances my consumption experience.
For example, I'll actively avoid any spoilers by not reading reviews or tuning into areas I know will be touching on the product until after I've listen/watch/read first and then I'll binge on all of the areas that are connected to the product, i.e. the reviews, reactions, fan community boards, etc. By doing it this way, I'm able to be an active participant in these areas, with my own input I'm able to add, instead of being a passive and/or silent observer.
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@jeghetersoojeong sounds like you aren't checking the timeline. Audits have to be publicly announced bc of legalities. Hybe isn't a private company to just do things internally without announcements to their stockholders, the public. They apparently had enough on Ador, not just MHJ, to initiate one.
She could've just made the legal response statement, complied to the audit (smt she still didn't do by the time of the presscon) and wait for the courts to absolve her if she did nothing wrong, but she's the one to make this a bigger public fiasco and make it abt how Hybe is doing this bc she went to complain to them first.
The way she's going on press conferences and radio to not answer or downplay her legal allegations and just spread company gossip, when she's the highest paid CEO of Hybe's sub, shows she just as bad as any other CEO she's trying to vilify. Bc she's trying to make herself out as only a victim, despite being a successful veteran in this field and having the experience and influence to know better abt the contracts she signs.
Plus, the way she put focus on the artists, who actually have way less power and influence she does, is just gross and wrong.
But both she and Hybe brought this upon themselves. Neither she nor any executive from Hybe deserves public sympathy. All sympathy should stay with only the artists being caught up in a fight between greedy CEOs.
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I kind of disagree with Roy's take on not having a "target of blame," so to speak, for the dark side of the performative acts in the west. In the west, blame is directed towards the artists' labels or organizations (like with sports, you'll have the nfl, nba, fifa, etc. and you have classical arts schools, academies, troupes, etc. such as Juilliards too). And this is fine bc those are the ones who set up the system of how the acts are allowed to operate and perform.
And this is how it should be seen in kpop too. Blame should be directed to those who have the control/authority to set up the system of how their artists perform.
The disconnect is that ppl in the west are more likely to treat the same critiques as individual cases or a separate aspect to the rest of their respective industry in the west, but with kpop, conversations abt it seem to have the tendency to take individual or separate issues, like with a particular company, and say all of kpop is like that.
We don't see the corruption happening in FIFA and turn to denounce all of soccer/football as corrupt and no one should even play/support it bc it feeds into the corruption. And even concerns that are a industry-wide issue (like the whole medical health issue that came out bc of all the concussions from nfl players or wwe wrestlers or the whole starving models thing) aren't often the forefront focus of the entire industry that ppl keep bringing it up practically every time the industry is talked about.
Roy points to 3 main Big labels that basically produced most of the more successful grps in the 1st and 2nd generations of kpop idols, but there are hundreds of kpop labels that don't operate the same way as the Big 3 or even operate like each other, just like how western music labels, even those working the same genre, are not all the same.
We see the horrible situations that Megan and Kesha got into with their labels, but why don't we have this mass automatic assumption that Ariana or Lizzo or Olivia are being treated the same way?
So, it's weird to treat this "dark side" as a homogeneous thing that must apply to every label's idols the same way, when the ups and downs of the industry are basically similar to any other industry: it's nuanced and dependent on many factors that may or may not apply to the rest of the industry it's apart of.
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@rabbit4376 it's bc njns refuse to implicate her. They actually raised the complaint when mhj was ceo, and belift and mhj/ador were supposed to do their own investigation. But mhj didn't and belift did and gave this footage they found to hybe pr, saying it was all they could find, and everyone reviewed the video.
Hybe pr said there wasn't enough to determine what story was true and made a generic "remember to be kind/professional at work" statement, and neither belift nor mhj objected to it.
It was only months later, after mhj left and it was too late to review any new the footage did njns say there was a different date and then tried to spin it as hybe purposefully deleting footage when the truth is that mhj neglected her duties of conducting her own investigation (but belift cared enough abt their staff to do their own investigation, which is why we have this footage) and also neglected to request for further investigation after seeing this video and hearing hybe pr's official statement.
But njns refuse to acknowledge that mhj is most at fault for failing to get footage if there was a 2nd meeting. And njns also had access to hybe pr's statement too. If they really thought it was a real issue, why didn't they make a formal complaint when hybe pr made their statement? Why did they wait months, after everything has been decided, to finally ask to see the footage or say their initial report was wrong? They tried to say it was traumatic, but the entire time, they didn't act like it's important enough to do anything abt it until they needed smt to claim mistreatment.
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Regardless of how the attendees there reacted, the most essential thing missing was proper crowd control, which was a failing primarly (and really only) on the authorities for lacking. I can't believe this amount of victim blaming going on.
Regular citizens can't and shouldn't be expected to take charge of a crowd of that size, esp once things got that bad and esp when there wasn't proper means for regular ppl to communicate with or take control of the whole crowd (that's why authorities put up signs and road indicators before the event and are physically there to direct ppl, with equipment to properly make announcements to large grps and to each other from different locations).
And a**holes and idiots, as well as ppl acting on desperation, have existed in other crowded locations (festivals, concerts, bars, sporting events, etc.) without smt like a crush occurring bc proper crowd control measures were in place.
A little more compassionate isn't unwarranted towards ppl who needlessly lost their lives for smt that could've been easily prevented if only those in charge actually did their jobs properly.
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@gh-ps5es did you not look up why Hybe is asking her to step down or hand over her laptop? Corporate espionage, attempted takeover, leaking confidential and private information abt both the company and the staff (the artists, included). Those are criminal acts (and not all is on MHJ either, tho) that she either downplayed or avoided to address. Stating this isn't bullying when it's a report on why Hybe is doing an audit and if she is being non-compliant, like they cliam.
And it's less me being neutral, and more that I'm not on either side for this. If Hybe did smt like this, I'd put them on blast too. If she was clean in this, she really should've lawyered up, released her statement, and left it to the courts, rather than make a spectacle of it all and put more pressure and scrutiny on the artists.
And it's still doesn't change that rn, it's all a matter of what she claims as true vs what Hybe is saying is true.
She said they didn't contact her; they're saying they tried and she didn't respond. She's saying she's stuck with Hybe bc of her contract, they're saying she was free to sell her shares and leave. She's said her contract is unfair; they said it was more than beneficial to her. She's saying Hybe worked against NJ, they're saying they didn't. She's said she made a report she never received an answer for, they're saying they did answer her. And they're said that she, along with other execs, were involved in criminal acts, which is why they're doing an audit, and she's denying or downplaying much of the allegations.
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@Niki91-HR I don't understand how you surmised that Asians, who've experienced racial discrimination in the US, as not being connected to a discussion of anti-Asian hate happening in the US, as well as it happening world-wide.
Tbf, the AANHPI community is addressing the uptick of global anti-Asian hate crimes happening, as well as how this is affecting our community. I believe that BTS, being Asian and global artists, are a perfectly fine pick to utilize their platform to spread awareness and bring in more engagement.
And not to mention, I wouldn't call this only an American issue. Caring abt ppl targeted by racism shouldn't be limited to only Americans. Racists do not care abt citizenship anyways. When they decide to target hate towards Asians, it doesn't matter to them if they are fellow countrymen. They target anyone who looks or is Asian, and that includes ppl who are temp residents, here on school/work visas, visitors, and other non-Americans who are in the US. And that's smt I think should be addressed and acknowledged.
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@Niki91-HR Okay, I get a bit where you're coming from, but I'd have to also point out that circumstances over how the countries are addressing these issues are different as well, which come into play.
The US and the AANHPI community are actively approaching the anti-Asian hate issue as a global issue, as well as a national issue, so they opened the door on their end and reached out first. It's not like BTS injected themselves into the conversations.
So, your analogy with SK and feminism wouldn't be the same. In SK (as far as I know), the gov isn't largely addressing the issue of feminism (actually, I think the current president elect ran on an anti-feminist platform, but correct me if I'm wrong).
Smt like this would be more like when Justin Beiber was invited to meet the French president to discuss abt issues concerning youths.
Of course, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice for SK's gov to also address these issues (or their other pressing issues), but as racism is also being treated as a global issue in the US, and as the WH has been part of many meetings and discussions around issues concerning the AANHPI community (with ppl/organizations both part of the community and some outside it, who also run on global platforms), with anti-Asian hate crimes being a main concern, I wouldn't find BTS's invitation or involvement strange, esp as they aren't the only or main guests in the WH's long list of invitees for the events of AANHPI Heritage Month.
Mostly bc BTS has a vocal and public global anti-violence campaign with UNICEF, as well as with them being Asian with their experience of racism on a global scale including the US, and bc of the PR opportunity that comes with them (the coverage and talk they garner with being connected can bring more awareness of what the AANHPI community is doing too).
Idk if that helps clear things up for you. Of course, it might still not be smt you agree with, but that's probably where the connections are stemming from.
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@KingKikikoi uh, she was the one to start and keep talking abt the NJ girls' reactions. No one was forcing her on that. If she cared abt them, she would've tried to leave them out as much as possible.
For all of her other issues, at the moment, it's all he-said/she-said that MHJ addressed or brought up, and really, they should be smt to wait for the courts to decide before saying one side was right over the other, if any were "right."
Remember, she's not a newbie kid being tricked or forced into a slave contract. She's an established and long-time player in this industry. She should know better abt how contracts work to know how to not get into one that would be completely unfair to her.
And Hybe really also should've been aware of the consequences of their own actions, as well, so there's no sympathy on my part for them. It's just rich ppl getting into a fight that came bc they were being greedy. It's really their artists, who are being dragged into this, that I feel for.
And considering how she was dancing around and downplaying the criminal allegations against her, and the fact that she confirmed many of the non-criminal but still suss allegations despite downplaying them, it does not look like she's a blameless victim either.
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@Giovanna-tw5zz
Thanks for the article; it was a really nice one! I can't believe I missed it(I thought I was caught up~).
I'm glad you took the time to explain. I've seen and responded to multiple comments of fans who DO actually use BTS as a means to voice their own opinions without having anything to show where they got the idea that BTS felt the same way.
I read the article as J-Hope commenting on the more extreme behaviors ARMYs can and have pulled before, rather than a focus on fans cheering. Of course, because no one has pointed out the cheering specifically, it also doesn't mean it can be problematic, so I can understand your feelings and even agree to an extent. Although Korean society does place a lot of emphasis on respecting elders, I also know the extent of respect and attitudes varies between people and situations. I would imagine that as the boys have become more familiar with western culture, they are more understanding of different aspects to it (ex. I've notice that they don't tend to bow when introducing themselves in English like they would in an Asian society). And because the cheering during interviews has happened time and time again, they seem to be better prepared for it too (I notice they sometimes pause before finishing their answers).
So, I don't disagree with your sentiment about ARMYs needing to curb on extreme behavior, but I do think the interviews have been getting less and less rowdy. This one was still nowhere near as bad as the 1st Ellen interview (at least, I was able to catch all their dialogue in this one). I also don't think we really know what we'll do in the same situation unless we were there either (at least I wouldn't), so I don't find it right to berate other ARMYs so harshly for defending such attitudes when the audience technically weren't being harmful.
It's one thing to call ARMYs out when they're rude, but it's another to respond in such a critical manner to people trying to quell the harsher comments. I feel it tends to create more confrontation than actually guide members to acting more considerate.
Thanks again for responding constructively! And for the article~ ☆♡☆
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The ost sounds so good from what's been released! Suga and JK really delivered with this 💜
Abt 7FC, I think it's been pretty decent so far, but it's still too early to make any sound judgment abt it.
From a manhwa enthusiast's standpoint, the potential is promising, but there's barely even 5 chapters out yet. It's still getting together the plot and setting. Plus, we haven't met all of its characters yet (and some of the characters introduced are still a mystery), so I'd take any final reviews/opinions abt this with a grain of salt.
The art looks good and it's been easy to read so far, tho I hope it does better with the exposition and world-building, particularly in regards to the beom. I'd like to see more abt the consequence of their existence in the world with the general population (like, I need more bg abt these other hunters and their teams and how they got put together, did ppl always have special powers before or is this like a murim/secret, superpowered fighting society-type scenario, are there any offical systems in place to deal with the beom, are there guilds, etc.).
This feels in league with the likes of S-class I Raised, Eleceed, or Noblesse, in that it's a modern setting with only a select "special" few of a majority guy cast, who are fighting with the supernatural. And it seems more geared towards the teen male audience.
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@WildberryAB I mean, I get you, but at the same time, he's not actually our irl friend/family for it to be reasonable for us to have an expectation on how he addresses his private life to us.
Being in a fan-celeb relationship isn't the same as being in a irl relationship, where both parties are able to freely communicate on both sides at a much more complex level. Bc, who's to say he wasn't telling the truth? It's not like you or I can actually met him and have a nuanced irl conversation with him. Even figuring out where personal boundaries are (like with how to joke) becomes an issue bc of this limitation.
Even us talking thru these cmmts on yt puts a barrier to how well we're able to communicate to understand each other. I can only take what you write at face value bc I don't know you or your situation to get a full understanding from your pov and that should be vice versa with you to me.
So, ig I can only say for me, as long as he isn't doing smt criminal/harmful and it isn't affecting his job (the thing we're his fans for), then I think we, as fans, are not entitled to anything regarding his private life, including him being truthful or not abt it.
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@aidol-kpoppp may 27. It was the only day during the initial timeframe hanni reported when the 2 grps could've met (illit was in Japan by the morning of the next day).
The main issue is that both belift and ador (under mhj) had the same timeframe to search the raw footage to save anything to support their side's story (after a month, anything not requested to be saved is deleted bc of law requirements), but only belift seemed to have looked and saved this footage.
Belift took the footage to hybe hr to mediate and hybe officially said the footage wasn't enough to say one way or the other. Belift and ador didn't object to hybe's statement when it was made.
Months later, njns said it was a different date, but by then, it was too late to look for new footage bc the rest of the raw footage was not requested to be saved past the deletion date required by law.
See, mhj could've done her due diligence to do initial investigation and properly look for a 2nd encounter but didn't, for whatever reason. She also could've objected to hybe's initial statement and requested further investigation bc she saw this same footage, but again, she didn't, for whatever reason.
So, atp, any 2nd footage is only "alleged" to exist bc mhj did not try to look for a 2nd footage and no one brought any proof a 2nd encounter existed, and belift says this is the only footage of their interactions that month and brought proof of hanni's initial lack of care abt believing she overheard illit's manager say smt abt ignore.
And, unless she heard the manager have this same convo twice and can prove it, her story is also just "alleged".
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I remember the backlash with Digimon Frontier, and I think it was in large part due to coming right off of Digimon Tamers, which was so incredibly well received (and rightly so). I remember reactions preparing to not like Tamers bc it was the first season to deviate from the original storyline, but lo and behold, it's considered one of the, if not the, best seasons of the franchise. I don't think anyone expected Tamers to be as good as it was and that caught ppl by surprise.
But that worked to Frontier's disadvantage, bc ppl either wanted another season of Tamers, like we got with Digimon Adventure, or didn't like how light-hearted and goofy Frontier was when it aired in comparison to Tamers. Ppl who liked Digimon by the time Tamers ended were typically of the older crowd. But Frontier's setting and tone felt like it was supposed to be aimed at a younger demographic than Tamers', which made it lose viewers. And it also didn't help that it took away the whole Digimon partner aspect.
But I liked Frontier since the beginning. And I think more ppl gave it another chance (or at least, it's audience grew) once the series really got into Cherubimon's story and the introduction of the Royal Knights and Lucemon.
Yugioh GX's real attraction came from its 3rd season, which was good enough to make up for the earlier 2 seasons. If it had continued like it did the 1st or even 2nd season, ppl wouldn't have liked it as much.
I still can't get into DBS. I was already feeling fatigue from the series as a whole (GT did not do it for me), and the beginning of Super wasn't it either. I completely lost interest by the time the Future Trunks story was beginning (though, I did suspect it was a push in the right direction to pick the show back up). But I ended up dropping the series and never got back into it to check out the rest (maybe in the future?).
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