Comments by "iorekby" (@iorekby) on "Disappointing news about code bootcamps in 2020" video.

EDX has some good stuff too (their C programming course is incredible), as does Coursera. A lot cheaper as well.
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I use EDX and Udemy sometimes to refresh myself on things or learn something new, but I have a degree in Computer Engineering. And the EDX/Udemy courses really vary in quality. What will get you a job are working on tangible projects. Ideally professionally, but as a hobby or a way of skilling yourself is okay too. If the courses you take don't guide you towards a project, that might be less helpful. If I were interviewing someone and they'ed simply completed some Udemy courses, and didn't really understand deep CE or CS concepts that well... that wouldn't encourage me to hire them.
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I've worked in some big tech companies in Europe, and we have never hired bootcamp grads, even for entry level roles. We have good relations with universities and technical colleges. All of our entry level roles get filled by graduates from there. Anyone I've ever interviewed from a bootcamp has always had a pretty shallow knowledge of coding. And many of the roles we have don't really need JavaScript or Python, which is all bootcamps seem to work with. TL;DR I very much agree about bootcamps being a scam.
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Let me tell you something about people who teach programming for a living: Most of them, if they were decent programmers, would make a LOT more working in the tech industry. Some people just love teaching though. Generally these people have stayed in academia in accredited universities as you get the best teaching experiences in academia. Most of them have done an undergrad/post-grad in EE or CS. Anyone outside of academia who is teaching you coding.... is likely doing it because they barely know how to program themselves. If you drill them on their actual professional experience, many people simply have very shallow CVs in terms of programming. They don't really understand what they are teaching that well. This should be a red flag for anyone. NB In fairness, it's not just bootcamps who employ teachers with dubious experience. Some of the big tech companies used to do this to "certified training centers" to sell their industry certifications. But still, the point stands.
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@chrisgiroux9356 That is true. In fairness I have a Computer Engineering degree so I only use these resources periodically to learn something new. I could not imagine trying to learn everything I picked up in my degree from Udemy though. Not even close.
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@jaysolomon4426 I have never met someone who is solely a "self-taught" programmer who could actually do anything useful within the context of working in a professional tech company. Perhaps there are geniuses out there who could absorb all this information and compensate from a lack of a strong group learning environment, but they would be incredible rare. For most people, self-teaching alone is highly unlikely to get them very far in tech. It's not like things such as Udemy are new. Udemy has been around for nearly 10 years, and most of it's original content was related to programming and tech. You also have to factor in that without tangible, real world projects you won't have anything worth discussing at an interview generally. Things like Udemy are completely variable in terms of facilitating this. Final point is that it's well documented that simply reading, observing and trying to follow along are sub-optimal ways to learn something. Things like universities give you the chance to practically work on skills with peers, while also allowing you to teach less experience students. That's a far better way to learn something. That said, if someone thinks they can learn everything they need with $100 of Udemy courses within 12 months to become a professional software engineer at a decent tech company, have at it. It's your life.
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Not really. Teaching yourself only gets you so far unless you are a bonafide genius (which 99% of people are not). When I did my Computer Engineering degree, the main benefit was I had: 1) An industrial placement with a tech company baked in to my degree. That was invaluable. 2) Professors who had spent 30+ years of experience as software/network/electrical engineers, and also a PhD in CS, teaching me more than any online tutorial ever would. 3) A really smart peer group who were just as passionate about tech as I was. We learned so much from each other. 4) A nice piece of paper than got me plenty of entry level offers (and even 1 senior role offer) once I graduated. Teaching yourself for most people is generally inefficient, wasteful and less effective than having experienced grey beards taking you through something. I am not a fan of bootcamps at all, but I wouldn't suggest teaching yourself is the optimal way either. And to me, sucking it up and enrolling in a 4 year degree (or possibly a conversion masters degree over 1-2 years) takes more discipline and tenacity than trying a DIY-quick-fix-I-can-teach-myself-to-code-in-8-months approach.
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@AaronJack As someone who has worked in tech for 17 years and interviews for entry level positions in to a tech company, I absolutely concur with this. Many tech companies will actually see a coding bootcamp as a red flag, regardless of the name of the bootcamp.
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No it's not too late of course. I wouldn't recommend bootcamps though. In the UK, for example, there are plenty of 1 year master's degree courses in CS and Software Engineering aimed at non-CS undergrads. That would be a better bet as you would get a more through education and most of them have industrial placements as part of the program.
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You hit the nail on the head: People are desperate to get what they view as a "prestigious" job in tech, so they hand over a ton of money to get a shortcut in to the tech sector. Problem is, most of the bootcamp grads I've interviewed have a very shallow knowledge as they are going up against kids who have just finished a 4 year degree in CS, CE or EE. Heck, even the Math and Physics grads I interview are much stronger on coding problems we have in our interview. If something seems to good to be true, it usually is.
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90% sounds impressive but you have to consider are they stacking groceries 6 months after they graduate or working at an entry level role in Microsoft? And even if they are employed, how many do companies keep on? My experience has been when companies do hire bootcamp grads a lot seem to not be employed there after 12 months. TL;DR: Does it sound too good to be true? If so, then it probably is.
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@G3nM Serious question: Is university a possibility?
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