Comments by "iorekby" (@iorekby) on "Plymouth shooting: What do we know about Jake Davison?" video.

He wasn't voluntary. He was involuntary by his own admission. It was likely more the very obvious behavioural and possible mental health issues he had that would be a big red flag for people. This was clearly a young man who didn't know how to socialize in a healthy way with women, or how to deal with rejection in an healthy way, or to get the actual helpful support he needed (instead of incel social media).
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@justiceforartpop6600 100% this. It's their personalities and their world view which are the most unattractive things about them most of the time. They don't want to accept this though, because your personality and world view are things you can take responsibility for. It's preferable for incels to blame women/society/men* for their problems rather than themselves. *There seems to be a small number of incels who are attracted to men too (e.g. gay incels, hetro women incels).
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@LightningWolf09 Well said. Even in this comment section here there are men being blatantly misogynistic, blaming "feminism" for making it "harder" for disturbed warped incels to "get women". The "good old days" would mean a women would be forced to get married to one of these awful people, who would make her life miserable. You have to hate women to think that is a good outcome. The answer here is better education in schools and better systems to identify vulnerable people and get them the help they need, not allowing them to fester and drift on to incel forums online. That's a recipe for disaster.
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@scottandrews947 No it's not. It's because they don't know how to handle rejection in a healthy manner. People get rejected all the time in dating, in jobs, in bank loans etc... it's part of life. You get on with it. People that can't aren't emotionally, and possibly mentally, healthy. Once you are an adult, you have to take responsibility for your emotional, physical and mental health. People that don't, who decide to drift on to incel forums and let their hatred of women and the world take over almost always are making a choice. They are feeding their negativity instead of trying to take care of themselves and get the help they need.
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@georgefindlay1982 This guy did hate women though. He couldn't view them as human beings. He talked about women more like they were objects, and objects he was entitled to. And he threatened violent behaviour if he didn't get what he was entitled to. To think of a person as less than a person requires a certain type of hatred. There's no getting around that.
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Well, he was a Trump supporter in this case.
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It's more about the political optics: Branding incels as terrorists, and making the punishments more severe for these sorts of crimes might be politically popular when emotions are running high. Of course it doesn't tackle the root causes though.
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@malissateran8044 Tell me, when was the last time a feminist because of their beliefs went on a gun rampage? When did feminism encourage someone to strap a bomb on themselves and blow up innocent people? Feminism is hardly the problem here. Blaming women who subscribe to a certain political ideology is just misogynistic.
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@Chris Kyle It's called hybristophilia and is a recognized medical disorder. You can't judge people with a medical disorder by "normal" standards.
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@billymadison8574 It's a bit of both. Yes personal responsibility is the major thing, but access to negative influences certain people can be highly vulnerable to can also be a factor. Social media companies have used Psy Ops to influence users in the past (e.g. Cambridge Analytica scandal), so it's entirely possible for social media to negatively influence a users opinion. Sure, there may be underlying problems there but social media can amplify or help manifest tangible action.
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@justalittleyoutuber I think a better way is you need to be over 18 to access social media, and you have to upload an actual form of ID (e.g. a driver's license or passport) to use it. Once you take the anonymity away you'd clean up 90% of the toxicity of social media very quickly.
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@unicornkatana9836 In some countries where journalists and activists are under threat from the government, sure. But not for the vast majority of people using social media in the West.
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@billymadison8574 I agree with what you are saying. There was a study from a university in Belgium in 2019 that said people with "low cognitive functions" were 6 times more likely to believe misinformation, even when the misinformation was debunked. Some people are incredibly vulnerable to misinformation and while I agree about fact checking, I think social media companies need to do more to identify users vulnerable to misinformation to help protect them from it.
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There are studies though that show certain video games can increase violent mechanisms in the human brain. Trying to pretend that doesn't sometimes happen is as equally glib as saying "Video games turn kids in to killers". It's much more nuanced than that. It seems that some people have underlying conditions or circumstances that mean they can be vulnerable to violent stimulus, like video games or movies. It's more about identifying those vulnerable people and making sure they can't access that material without some sort of oversight is the issue. If you are on an even keel, playing a violent video game won't really have any discernible impact on you. But if you aren't or have certain underlying issues, then potentially a violent video game can trigger the violent mechanisms in your brain without any sort of impulse control to balance it.
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@Big_Chody It's more of a culture in places like the UK were virginity is seen as some sort of disease to be gotten rid of the first chance you get. In other countries in Europe, they have a more relaxed, healthier views. Like in the Netherlands, if you were a virgin at 22 most people wouldn't care.
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@hiswattsonn Some studies have shown certain video games can activate violent mechanisms in the brain. Which for most people on an even keel is fine, because they have a healthy brain with impulse control and things to mitigate so it doesn't ever manifest in to any behavior. It's possible violent video games or movies, for people who have brains that have developed properly, can trigger violence mechanisms and their brains cannot mitigate or calm those tendencies properly. It's sort of like a alcohol: Not that harmful in the hands of 99% of people, but it can trigger things in certain people which are destructive.
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@unicornkatana9836 Incel forums hardly seem like a safe space.
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@jokerpilled2535 Right but equally you can't dismiss any correlation. I agree the issues are deeper and not caused by video games per se, but also think the research points to video games, particularly violent video games, potentially acting as a stimulant. It might be a benign stimulant in 99.9999% of people, but it might also be a exacerbating factor in someone who has particular vulnerabilities. Using your other examples to demonstrate the point: Is it wise to let someone with schizophrenia consume alcohol? Likely not, as most research in this area shows regular alcohol consumption can exacerbate symptoms of schizophrenia and make them more pronounced (e.g increased frequency and severity of hallucinations). Just because you or I could have a drink once a week with no ill effect doesn't mean that is the case for everyone. We simply don't know enough about how violent video games affect people with certain disorders before universally saying they are benign in all cases. Please note I'm not suggesting a causality here, but the potential for it being an exacerbating factor in certain isolated cases. Also thanks for making the effort to read my post and reply thoughtfully, even if you didn't agree with everything.
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@emilyd6259 Right but where is the evidence stricter punishment has any detrimental impact on crimes like this? States in the US with the death penalty for murder still have the highest rates of homicide, for example. More severe criminal punishment doesn't seem to have any meaningful impact on criminals like this. No one is saying the crimes shouldn't be punished, lets be clear about that. Merely that branding such crimes as terrorism allows for greater custodial mechanisms to be used. The real benefit of this wouldn't be the punishment: It would be that MI5 became involved in such cases, and the police would have more powers to intervene before hand in the UK. While I agree you can never fully eradicate this sort of thing from society, more can be done to tackle it. Name education around consent, healthy interpersonal relationships, managing rejection etc.... And identification of kids vulnerable to things like incel culture etc... with interventions in place to get them actual proper help and mental health treatment.
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@kittystanby4686 I have to agree, any incels I've encountered are deeply entrenched in incel mindset and feeling victimised. Then again I'm not a mental health professional, which is who they need to speak to I guess. That said, as adults, everyone needs to take care of their own mental/physical/emotional health and get the right help. That's their responsibility. Incels often make choices not to do this, and drift on to incel forums instead and feed their negativity and hate. That's a choice they make. You can't get better if you don't want to get better, and many incels don't in my experience.
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@Gaynor Lewis I've read some of the things he posted on social media. Clearly he was a person who hated women. He said was "entitled” to a “16 17 year old GF (girlfriend)" and that all women were "arrogant and entitled beyond belief". If you don't understand why that's misogynistic you're beyond help. The young man clearly needed help and wasn't getting it, but there's no doubt he'd espoused misogynistic views.
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@mistressofstones Very well said and I agree, the other person's view is deeply rooted in misogyny and fundamentally offers no consideration of whether women in such a situation in the "old days" would've been happy in such marriages (which I cannot imagine many women would've been). In couples under 50 in the US today, divorce rates are actually dropping Marriages or long term relationships are happier and last longer as people are getting married or entering into committed relationships on a more equal footing, and choosing partners they actually love and are happy with. As opposed to "the good old days" where many women ended up coerced into very unequal and unhappy marriages. Anyone truly believing the "good old days" were better for marriages is deluding themselves and ignoring the actual facts that in modern societies, more marriages seem happier and last longer. As you say, feminism is responsible for a lot of social good and has played a critical part in overall making society better.
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But studies have shown violent video games can increase violent mechanisms in the brain. It's too reductive to say one way or the other video games or social media are 100% to blame or have no blame at all. Some people might be highly vulnerable to violent stimulus. If someone has no impulse control due to underlying issues, and is constantly feeding themselves violent stimulus, that could have negative consequences. We need more studies before we say one way or the other, but it seems like video games or movies that are overly violent can adversely impact individuals with underlying issues. It's also possible video games are a good release for people with certain mental health or behavioral issues, sort of like a pressure release. We just don't know for sure yet.
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@24yrukdesigner Got a link to your research?
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@hunglitahorse5356 You should find your own really low level of comprehension comical. That's not what I've said. Studies have shown an association between violent video games and activation of violent mechanisms in the brain. Some people might be more vulnerable to this than others. We can't definitively say one way or the other so we need to do more research. That's literally all I've said. I haven't definitively "blamed" anything. Please make more of an effort to understand what's being said, rather than being reductive.
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@kittystanby4686 I highly doubt you're a millennial. If you were, you'd know this guy isn't a millennial. He's a Zoomer aka Gen Z. Different Generation to millennial.
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BlackSheep85 It's called hybristophilia and is a recognized clinical disorder.
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