Comments by "" (@TheHuxleyAgnostic) on "The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder"
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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447
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
The two terrorist groups also operated outside of Palestine. The Irgun bombed the British Embassy at Porta Pia, in Rome. The Lehi bombed the British Colonial Club, in London. A timer failed in another bombing attempt, at the Colonial Office, in Whitehall. Two female Lehi operatives were arrested crossing from Belgium to France, with the ingredients for letter bombs. 21 letter bombs were found to be have sent, and were intercepted. They mined the Cairo-Haifa train, in Egypt, twice, killing dozens of civilians, as well as British soldiers.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
241
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Jimmy has a new video out, downplaying the risks of covid, called "Are COVID death rates WILDLY inflated?".
In it, he takes hospitalization rates per total vaccinated (0.01%)and unvaccinated (0.89%) populations and compares it to a 3.4% "death rate", that is clearly a case fatality rate (fatalities per confirmed cases) from a year and a half ago. The case fatality rate is constantly changing, is different for each country, and different for the world.
He claimed he couldn't find a newer rate. Only someone who is completely inept, wouldn't be able to find the current case fatality rate. But, somehow Jimmy managed not to. Only someone who failed grade school math couldn't figure it out themselves. 800k deaths is 1.6% of 50m confirmed cases, in the US. But, somehow Jimmy, or his team, couldn't.
So, he compares these two sets of numbers, that are based on totally different math, to question whether covid deaths are being "WILDLY" inflated. You know, because a 3.4% "death rate" is so much higher than 0.9% hospitalization rate. The comparable "death rate" he should be using is the population mortality rate. 800k deaths is 0.24% of 330m total population. Again, something that's easy to find the latest numbers for, or figure out yourself, but the Dore knob team couldn't manage to do. There's nothing, at all, incompatible with a 0.24% total population mortality rate and a 0.9% total population hospitalization rate.
But, he's using his false equivalency to make out like covid is a lot less harmful than doctors and scientists, worldwide, have stated, and there's some giant worldwide conspiracy to inflate numbers, by over 10x.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
The two terrorist groups also operated outside of Palestine. The Irgun bombed the British Embassy at Porta Pia, in Rome. The Lehi bombed the British Colonial Club, in London. A timer failed in another bombing attempt, at the Colonial Office, in Whitehall. Two female Lehi operatives were arrested crossing from Belgium to France, with the ingredients for letter bombs. 21 letter bombs were found to be have sent, and were intercepted. They mined the Cairo-Haifa train, in Egypt, twice, killing dozens of civilians, as well as British soldiers.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@latrinemarine826 Was it wrong when the Irgun and Lehi did it? Those terrorist groups were merged into Israel's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists and rapists as "heroes". Likud was founded by the leaders of those terrorist groups. Israelis elected both those terrorist leaders as PMs. All evidence suggests that Netanyahu is carrying on with those terrorists' Likud platform, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", which promises to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories. It further claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly Iraq.
Do you condemn the Irgun/Lehi/Likud terrorists and rapists, celebrated by Israelis?
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It has been the Likud goal, for 100 years.
Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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The biggest failure, when it came to Yang, was American interviewers not looking into how a VAT actually works. He got away with repeatedly claiming it was a way to tax giant corporations, like Amazon. A VAT is actually specifically designed to not tax businesses, in order to avoid cascading taxes upon taxes. At every stage, the business gets to reclaim its input VAT (VAT paid on purchases), from its output VAT (VAT collected on sales). It's only the final consumer that doesn't get to reclaim their VAT paid, and ends up paying the entire tax. His VAT/UBI combo would have had money funneling to the very top, faster than ever before. Since corporations wouldn't actually pay into the UBI, as he claimed, they would have only benefitted from extra trillions being spent, making a corporation like Amazon extra tens of billions a year, and Bezos extra billions a year.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@sgtwrench69 What was it Jimmy "blew up"? Some stupid Steele dossier, that intelligence agencies, and the Mueller investigation, decided themselves wasn't reliable, and didn't base their investigations on?
Multiple intelligence agencies, the house intelligence committee, the senate intelligence committee, and the Mueller investigation, all concluded Russia had interfered. Mueller indicted 19 Russians, and 3 Russian companies. The FBI, under Trump, said they were interfering again, in 2020. The Mueller report included some 200 pages outlining information sharing (collusion, which isn't a legal term) that didn't amount to criminal conspiracy, and stated Manafort, Kushner, and Jr, weren't charged with criminal conspiracy because it would be hard to prove they "willfully" broke the law, not because they didn't break the law. None of that has been debunked. They just couldn't get a supermajority, in the senate, to act on it.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@ComradeCatpurrnicus Not to mention that the vaccines have government negotiated prices, and are given out for free. That's a tiny slice of what M4A should be like, but he spreads all kinds of misinformation about covid and vaccines, plus doing his "big pharma" schtick, to make it seem like crap. He, and Max, also did a bullshit bit on myocarditis, and trashed the completely socialized UK healthcare system, while they were at it. And, Dore also peddled an unproven, more expensive, paid for out of pocket, vaccine alternative, on Rogan.
The guy is selling the complete opposite of what he claims to be for.
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His other video was called, "Are COVID death rates WILDLY inflated?".
He cites a Gallup article, which very clearly states their hospitalization rates are based on the total population, 0.01% for the total vaccinated population, and 0.89% for the total unvaccinated population. Now, you'd think that maybe the unvaccinated being hospitalized at 89x the rate of the unvaccinated might be a big deal to talk about, but no.
Jimmy claims to have looked for a comparable "death rate". The only comparable death rate, to total population hospitalization rates, is the covid crude mortality rate. That number is easy to find, all you have to do is take the deaths per million rate and move the decimal 4 spaces to the left, 0.27%. It's also easy to do the math yourself. Apparently, the crack Dore knob team wasn't capable of doing either.
Instead, Jimmy says he couldn't find a "death rate" from the past year and a half, so uses one from a year and a half ago. The 3.4% he uses is clearly a case fatality rate, deaths per confirmed case. Aside from not being comparable to the total population hospitalization rates, a current case fatality rate is also easy to find, and also easy to work out the math yourself. Even using the wrong rate, the crack Dore knob team was too stupid to figure out the current one.
So, he takes those incomparable rates, and since 3.4% is sooooo much higher than 0.89%, he makes out like covid deaths are being "WILDLY inflated".
He's either completely ignorant, or completely dishonest, or both.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
The two terrorist groups also operated outside of Palestine. The Irgun bombed the British Embassy at Porta Pia, in Rome. The Lehi bombed the British Colonial Club, in London. A timer failed in another bombing attempt, at the Colonial Office, in Whitehall. Two female Lehi operatives were arrested crossing from Belgium to France, with the ingredients for letter bombs. 21 letter bombs were found to be have sent, and were intercepted. They mined the Cairo-Haifa train, in Egypt, twice, killing dozens of civilians, as well as British soldiers.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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MLK Jr did not simply criticize silence. He criticized trying to placate agitators, to silence a movement, telling them not to ruffle feathers. He criticized telling those rising up to calm down and sit down.
Biden is exactly that ... "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action" ... and wants people without healthcare to sit their asses down, wants people not getting paid a living wage to sit their asses down, wants people facing racial injustice to sit their asses down, etc. Be patient. Unite behind doing nothing, or as little as possible, and be content to accept whatever you get.
"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured."
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@Evirthewarrior "constantly attacks everyone from the left"
No, he doesn't. He has currently been attacking a vaccine, with a government negotiated price, given to the public for free. That's, literally, a tiny taste of what M4A would be like. He, and Max, have also made a dishonest attack on the UK's completely socialized healthcare system. He has also peddled unproven, more expensive, paid for out of pocket, alternatives. None of that is, at all, leftist.
Jimmy's voting advice benefits Republicans more than anyone else. That is not, at all, leftist.
He promotes allying with "extreme free market" psycho Boogaloos, who want the complete opposite of socialism, and a civil war. They would be shooting you, if you tried to install M4A, after helping them overthrow the government. That's not, at all, leftist. Dore is the kind of "leftist" that ends up on the wrong side of a Night of the Long Knives.
Dore is a grifter. Grifters claim to be selling you one thing, but they're actually selling you something else. He benefits the far right.
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Ok Goebbels. Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@Evirthewarrior The reverse is also true, Dore knob. Adding 55-64 year olds adds healthier people, than just the 65+ crowd, to the Medicare risk pool, people who would pay into it but need it less. Dore knobs don't grasp basic math.
I'm stupid? Dore vastly underestimated the benefits, claiming it would lead to a progressive wave that would "for sure" take the house and senate in 2018 (didn't happen) and the presidency in 2020 (didn't happen). He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republicans would vote against a Trump agenda rather than follow him into overt fascism (didn't happen) and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (the moon still hasn't fallen). He's a complete and utter moron, living in some fantasy land. The progressive movement behind Bernie started after an Obama presidency, dimwit Dore knob. You don't need a psycho as the head of government.
I know exactly what he said about the Boogaloo guy before he came on, and while he was on. Dore is an idiot. The dead peeps on the Night of the Long Knives were leftists, dumb dumb, that teamed up with right wingers.
You're the one who brought them up, dimwit.
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@arceusthomas2447 Rofl.
a) You're moving your goalpost, dumb dumb. What you previously stated was that they didn't prevent infection, therefore they didn't work. They work by reducing infections, hospitalizations, and deaths, which is what other vaccines also do.
b) How long antibodies are effective, and how effective they are to variants, has to do with the virus, not the vaccine. Just like how a flu vaccine, made the old fashioned way, is taken once a year. Yes, there are breakthrough cases every month, during flu season. It still reduces infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. That's what vaccines are supposed to do. And, if the flu was year round, you'd also probably need 2-3 shots a year, to maintain your level of protection. That's because flu antibodies don't last as long, the flu mutates a little regularly, and there are multiple strains floating around at the same time.
Mumps antibodies last almost 30 years, but there are a fair number of variants. The vaccine is about 88% effective, and there are dozens, to thousands, of breakthroughs a year.
85% of people being hospitalized and dying are unvaccinated, and you're claiming they don't work, like a complete and utter moron.
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@richardp6461 What conviction? He peddled Tulsi (public option) over Bernie (M4A), for almost a year, outright working against the M4A candidate. Then, he peddled his pointless 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, and slandered anyone who didn't support it as "fakes", "frauds", "sellouts", or whatnot. Surely, outright working against M4A is worse than simply not supporting some pointless secondary tactic. Then, after making out like that was enough to write off other progressives, who agree with you on policy 99%, as allies, he promotes an "extreme free market" ancapper, who disagrees with you on most everything, including M4A, as a potential ally. Then, he abandoned Nina Turner, one of M4A's most ardent supporters ... abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress.
The guy flips and flops all over the place, on a regular basis. He takes whatever contrarian position he thinks will sell best, at the time.
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@robertreese1275 The grift is to sell yourself as something you're not.
He promoted Trump as the better option than Clinton, for progressives. According to Jimmy, Trump being so bad, such a deranged fascist, a Trump presidency would lead to a massive progressive backlash that would "for sure" take the house (nope) and senate (nope), in 2018, and the presidency (nope), in 2020. He claimed even Republicans would vote against a Trump agenda (nope), rather than follow him into fascism (they did), and Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (nope). All of his predictions were wrong so, ultimately, promoting Trump over Clinton only benefited Trump.
Promoting Trump over Clinton was also promoting tossing 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion, over adding 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion. Then he promoted Tulsi (public option) over Bernie (M4A). Then he, again ... even after all his failed predictions ... even after Trump's incompetent leadership had a hand in the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of people ... he made out like Biden (public option + Medicare expansion) was worse than Trump (still trying to toss millions of poor Americans off of Medicaid expansion). Dore promoted the worst healthcare option, each time, and then tries passing himself off as the one true champion of healthcare, because he came up with a nonsense "plan" to have a performance art vote. He also abandoned Nina Turner (M4A), and now promotes never again voting for someone running as a Democrat. Going third party likely won't even get you a single seat in congress, in the next 5 decades, let alone get some kind of healthcare bill passed, in the next century.
He uses slander, not "truth". AOC never ran on paralyzing, or threatening to paralyze, the house. She ran on what her own concept of a "ruckus" is, not Jimmy's. She backed 20 pro-M4A progressives, and helped add a few more M4A advocates to congress, which actually moves you closer to ever being able to pass the bill, while a performance art vote doesn't actually do that. She has done more for M4A in 2 years than Dore has in his entire lifetime. He made out like he didn't know where she was, on M4A march day, when it was public knowledge that she was at rallies for Nina Turner, promoting M4A and trying hard to add another M4A advocate to congress. Why weren't M4A marchers promoting and supporting Nina? Why did Dore promote abandoning Nina, on his show ... abandoning adding another M4A advocate to congress?
Then, there's going on far right television, largely just to agree with far right talking points. There's promoting allying with far right ancap extremists, that are trying to start a civil war.
How does Dore actually benefit the left? Almost everytime he proposes actions, they're actions that seem to benefit the right ... even extreme right ... no matter that he frames it as coming from the left. You're a sucker.
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@coryddp7254 Dore promoted Trump (who ran on ACA repeal) as the better option than Clinton (who ran on lowering Medicare to 55), not caring if millions on Medicaid expansion and with preexisting conditions could lose their healthcare, not caring to get millions more on Medicare.
He thought Republicans would join the left to stop the Trump agenda, rather than joining him in overt fascism.
He thought Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan.
During the 2020 primary he didn't back Bernie (M4A). During the general, he basically ran an attack ad campaign against Trump's only viable opponent, Biden (public option + lowering Medicare to 60), again not seeming to care if Trump won, not caring if millions lost their healthcare, not caring if Trump killed thousands more with incompetent covid response, and again not backing adding millions to Medicare.
He didn't know how the speaker vote actually works. He promoted that 15 progressives should "withhold" their votes (he didn't say cast protest votes). 15 abstentions + 2 unfilled seats, would lower the threshold needed to win down to 210. If the 211 Republicans voted McCarthy, he'd win.
He spouted strawman bullshit, as if AOC had campaigned on paralyzing the house, or even threatening to paralyze the house, when she didn't.
He also promotes going third party. The Libertarian party is almost 50 without ever having won a seat in congress. Dore doesn't give a fuck about the reality that going third party won't get anyone healthcare, and could just split progressive voting enough to hand the Dem party totally back to corporate Dems and let Republicans rule for decades, destroying healthcare even more.
He's an asshat, and doesn't actually give two shits about anyone else getting healthcare.
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Andrew g Poor people, left or right, may share being in similar situations, but the ones on the right have bought into certain beliefs, like: socialized anything is bad, capitalism rules, the rich provide jobs, the unemployed are simply lazy, bootstrap stories aren't complete outliers, minimum wage is bad, etc., etc. If they were to be convinced otherwise, did turn against the rich, and started supporting things that actually help poor people, then they'd no longer be on the right.
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@thewhiterabbit498 Rofl. They let one guy convince tens of millions of them not to believe any media, any politicians, any judges, any lawyers, any election officials, any police, any intelligence agencies, any scientists, any doctors, any nurses ... anyone ... even to not believe their own lying eyes, if any of them contradict Supreme Leader, Big Brother, Trumpty Dumpty. They aren't a savvy bunch.
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Yes, it does. Pakman outright didn't want to hear about any kind of context, what Israel had done prior to Oct 7, what the US has done prior to Oct 7, and threw those people, just presenting objective facts, under the bus with open Hamas supporters. He put them all in the same box. He wanted things to be judged as if Oct 7 was the first thing to happen, that Hamas was the aggressor, and that Israel was the defender.
This year alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Over 1200 Palestinian hostages, held indefinitely without charges, by Israel ... over 200 Palestinians killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians displaced due to the endless colonization of the West Bank ... and, the continued operation of an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. To make out like nothing happened, prior to Oct 7, and that Israel is a defender is just outright dishonest.
It's just a fact that Israel is a colonialist state. Colonialists are never not the aggressors when it comes to the natives.
It's just a fact that Israel is considered an occupier, and that it's against international law for the occupier to use collective punishment and settle occupied lands. On the other hand, the occupied actually have a right to resist occupation.
By multiple measures, it is outright moronic, or biased, to make out like Israel is the one "responding".
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@Tilip Muejark The covid 1% mortality rate is 5x higher than the automobile accident mortality rate. Do you think street lights, speed limits, seatbelt laws, child seat laws, helmet laws, drinking and driving laws, licensing, vehicle safety standards, etc., are fascism?
The polio paralysis rate is 2x lower, and the mortality rate 20x lower, than the covid mortality rate. Do you think mandating the polio vaccine for public school students and immigrants is fascism?
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
The two terrorist groups also operated outside of Palestine. The Irgun bombed the British Embassy at Porta Pia, in Rome. The Lehi bombed the British Colonial Club, in London. A timer failed in another bombing attempt, at the Colonial Office, in Whitehall. Two female Lehi operatives were arrested crossing from Belgium to France, with the ingredients for letter bombs. 21 letter bombs were found to be have sent, and were intercepted. They mined the Cairo-Haifa train, in Egypt, twice, killing dozens of civilians, as well as British soldiers.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@sjwslayer7403 You're an idiot. Explain how a fetus with an unformed brain that hasn't even developed pain sensors, emotions, consciousness, etc., can suffer liked an actual child, with a conscious, aware, developed brain, that can feel pain, discomfort, fear, sadness, etc.
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@LadyMaeloraBeesbury Mate wrote a Syrian "scandal" piece, that could have been written from anywhere in the world, using Wikipedia as a source, but leaving out the info that doesn't fit your narrative. He, and Dore, have repeatedly ranted about a report that doesn't actually assign blame, that didn't even come out until almost a year after the US, and others, had bombed Syria, so had absolutely nothing to do with anyone's decision to bomb Syria. He's being an idiot. Two dissenting opinions on a single investigation doesn't even debunk that investigation, let alone the dozens of previous investigations. In fact, there was another chemical weapons use, just the month before, which had a no blame investigation, and a follow up blame assigning investigation, with zero dissenting opinions. They have made a big todo about nothing.
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@thinkoutsidethelines8265 The most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. The most popular progressive third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its 20 year existence. The third party route is the longest route to your destination, next to teaming up with looney far right extremists that want to start a civil war, and would start shooting leftists once you help them overthrow the government.
The broader progressive caucus is about 30 years old and is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. Justice Dems have been at it for about 4 years and have helped replace about a dozen corporate Dems. AOC has been at it 2 years, and has helped replace a few more. It's clearly the better strategy, even if you think it needs better progressive candidates. It's not like going third party is guaranteed to produce perfectly perfect incorruptible puritan progressive candidates. The Green party produced Kyrsten Sinema, ffs.
Even if we imagine that you magically got a third party so popular, that every single member of the progressive caucus belonged to that party, instead of the Democrat party. What you'd have is Trump as president, due to vote splitting between Biden and Bernie in the general. You'd have Pence as the senate tie breaking vote. And, you'd have a Republican plurality, in the house, that would only have to work with a handful of the most conservative Dems, to pass whatever they wanted. They could completely ignore your third party. They wouldn't need your votes on anything. Taking over the Dem party is not only the more effective strategy, it gives you more power. If the progressive caucus can become the majority of Dems, they can pick the party speaker candidate, they can set the party agenda. If also the majority not the house, that speaker could assign committee seats, put forward whatever bills they wanted, and sideline whatever bills they didn't want.
Third party is a fantasy. Dore is a grifter, who says he's for one thing, but then takes people down a direction that's never going to get you that thing.
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@JoKo203 I know that Dore knobs don't grasp the words like "gaslighting" and "blackmail", but do you also not grasp the word "grifter"? Obviously, the grifter would claim to be for certain things, but the way they propose obtaining those things doesn't actually get you those things.
The 30 year old broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. Justive Dems are 4 years old and have filled about a dozen seats. AOC has been at it 2 years and helped fill a few more seats. The most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. The most popular progressive third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its 20 year existence. In what reality would going third party get you what you want, quicker?
Even if you magically got the third party popular enough to get all the progressive votes, in the next 100 years, you'd split the Dem votes and let Republicans rule, for decades to come, after that. Trump, and Republicans, have been trying to toss 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion. They, literally, want to go in reverse. That moves you further away from ever getting M4A.
The directions Dore often proposes going move you further away from getting the things he claims he supports. That's the grift.
The grifter promoted Tulsi (public option) over Bernie (M4A), for months. Then he did an about face, and made out like not supporting a secondary tactic for a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, on M4A, was enough to slander other progressives as "fakes", "frauds", "sellouts", and whatnot. Obviously, supporting a non-M4A candidate is worse than not supporting a secondary tactic, and moves votes away from the M4A candidate. Slandering M4A's most ardent congressional supporters, and getting people to follow some fantasy, moves you further away from ever getting M4A.
Then, after making out like simply disagreeing over a single secondary tactic, was enough to no longer consider other progressives allies, then did another about face, and promoted allying with psycho far right ancap Boogaloos, who want to start a civil war, and agree on next to nothing, aside from a handful of anti-authoritarian issues ... including disagreeing on M4A, which they want no part of. M4A and ancap are incompatible. Allying with loons, like that, is how "leftists" wind up on the wrong side of a Night of the Long Knives. Who does he think they're going to be shooting, in their civil war? Ancap is all about private ownership. They'll be shooting any leftist that want public ownership.
...
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@Addamo You're outright lying. Dore's argument was that because Trump was so much worse, that it would cause a massive progressive backlash, and that's why he was a better option. He was wrong on all of his predictions.
AOC was, literally, just promoting M4A, dimwit Dore knob. You're still lying. Oh my, she wants Dems to remain the majority, and progressives to be in that majority, in a difficult midterm, in conservative areas where progressives got slaughtered, including ones she previously backed. I get it, you Dore knobs prefer a Republican majority. Just come out of the closet and say it already.
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@vipermad358 Firstly, that discussion was solely about the reunification of Germany, a year before the collapse of the USSR. Nobody was talking about any other countries, that didn't exist at the time. The USSR had multiple borders with NATO, at the time.
Secondly, that wasn't added to any signed agreements.
Thirdly, Rvssia itself almost immediately started trying to expand its borders back into those former SSR countries, towards NATO, starting with Georgia.
Lastly, Pvtin himself, in his very first address to parliament, as PM, lamented at the loss of those former SSR countries. He also, personally, never wanted to NOT have borders with NATO. What he wants is for NATO to not be in countries he wants to try and reclaim.
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@Zahaqiel What he failed to tell all the ignorant Americans, who fell for his bullshit, was that it had basically been ruled law, in Ontario, where he worked, for 16 years, and officially in the Ontario Human Rights Code for 4 years.
"In 2000, the Ontario Human Rights Commission (OHRC) released a policy on gender identity and human rights, taking the position that the ground of sex could be used to protect transgender people from discrimination and harassment."
"In 2012 “gender identity” and “gender expression” were added as grounds of discrimination in the Ontario Human Rights Code."
In all that time, he didn't rebel against the law, and didn't find a single example to support his bullshit slippery slope fear mongering.
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@andersonlee2755 By "truly alive", and the rest of the statement, it sounds like the op is referring to when it should count as a full fledged human life. A mindless, unfeeling, "life" doesn't really count as a full fledged human any more than a "living" sperm is. Scientists can now trick sperm into turning into an embryo, without an egg. Unless you want to ban sex, and ban men from ejaculating anywhere except into test tubes, so you can preserve the "life" of every single sperm and it's potential to become a full fledged human, then being against anything except late term abortions is somewhat hypocritical. Scientists can also now create an embryo from an egg and stem cells taken from bone marrow. If you want to protect everything that has the potential to become a full fledged human, the list is growing.
On another not, the IVF process ends up "killing" most of the embryos they creates for the process. Most don't take, or aren't used. Any anti-abortionists that aren't anti-ivf are also hypocrites.
Actually, most are hypocrites, out of the gate, since they worship a being who'd be responsible for the majority of pregnancies ending in spontaneous abortion (miscarriage), if it existed. They worship a "baby" "murderer", by their own "logic".
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They've been giving a home to crazy extremists, since the 50s, at least ... extreme anti-socialist McCarthy types, southern racists, religious extremists, Reaganomics spewing Neocons, gun nuts, Tea Party nutters, Trump cultists, Qanoners, ... it has become a party of lunatics.
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Again, it was a solid argument, for social media, which doesn't create its own content, and to point out that, if they want an actual public square, then it needs to be publicly owned.
The argument does not apply to media that creates its own content. That's a whole other monster. There are all kinds of regulations for creating content ... language on certain airwaves at certain times, nudity, violence, etc., etc., etc. And, there used to be regulations for news being more unbiased.
You repeatedly conflate two different things.
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@gudmundursturluson7683 Wtf does needing to be in congress have to do with Dore promoting Trump as the better option, and encouraging viewers to vote in such a way that could only benefit Trump? You seem to have reading comprehension problems. Are you arguing zero voters actually listen to Jimmy, that he has zero influence?
Jimmy predicted a Trump presidency would result in a massive progressive backlash, that would "for sure" lead to progressives taking the house (wrong) and senate (wrong), in 2018, and the presidency (wrong), in 2020. He predicted that even Republicans would join the left to vote against a Trump agenda (wrong), instead of following Trump into all out fascism (wrong). In the debate where Sam stomped Jimmy, Dore claimed that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong). He got everything wrong.
What was he right about, regarding "Russiagate"? The investigation didn't rely on the Steele dossier, that he blathers about. Mueller still indicted 19 Russians, and 3 Russian companies. The report provided some 200 pages of information sharing (collusion) that didn't amount to criminal conspiracy, and said it didn't indict Jr and Kushner for criminal conspiracy because it would be hard to prove they "willfully" broke the law, not because they didn't break the law. What's Jimmy's take? That the DNC, the FBI (run by Republicans for 6 of the last 10 presidential terms), the Republican lead investigator, and Australian officials, were all in cahoots to make Pence president, or something?
Rofl. What makes Fauci a "pathological" liar?
"etc etc"? You didn't even give one good example to "etc etc" after.
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@TheVFXbyArt Dore knobs and their false equivalencies. Let's skip over the decades of protesting and gaining a strong majority of public support. Let's skip over that a fair number of states had already made it state law.
Parties weren't as polorized, at the time. They weren't quite sure how everyone was going to vote. It was a constitutional amendment that needed a supermajority. They knew they had majority support, but didn't know exactly how far off they were from getting a supermajority. So, they had a vote, to see. It failed. The bill was literally held back, the next session, because they saw no point in having a guaranteed to fail vote. The next session, they thought they had the numbers, but it failed a supermajority vote, by 2. Both of those votes are quite a lot different than knowingly being 100+ votes short, in the house alone, but having one for performance art purposes anyway.
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@Tilip Muejark France, Spain, and Italy, also had pretty shitty responses, especially early on. The covid deaths per capita of countries like Germany, Canada, Norway, Denmark, Finland, who had mediocre responses, would translate into 300k+ fewer covid deaths in the US. Better, but yes, they could have done even better. Those countries tended to quickly get their testing rates up to 15+ people per confirmed case (the US, UK, France, Italy, and Spain, had testing rates lower than 10 people, for some time). Countries like S Korea, Vietnam, New Zealand, and Australia, quickly got their testing rates over 50 people per confirmed case. Their covid deaths per capita rates would translate into under 20k total covid deaths in the US.
Most of the US deaths, now, are people not listening to Biden, aren't they? The same folks Dumpty encouraged to not wear masks and rise up against lockdowns.
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@kyle6232 A 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote doesn't get you any closer to being able to pass M4A. You know that, right? What get's you closer to being able to pass it are numbers. Justice Dems have added about a dozen M4A yes votes, in just 4 years. AOC helped add a few more, in just 2 years. She was on the ground campaigning for Nina Turner, fighting to add another. Dore, on the other hand, abandoned Nina Turner ... abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress.
Pelosi actually introduced the M4A bill, just last session, where it died in committees, that Jimmy thinks are unimportant, where 90% of bills die. He could have been "pressuring" committee members throughout the pandemic, to take up the bill. Pelosi has already reintroduced the bill, this session, where it's again sitting in committees Jimmy doesn't think are important. He could be "pressuring" committee members, to take up the bill, right now. Instead, he's going after M4A's most ardent congressional supporters, who have done more for M4A, in just a few years, than Dore has in his entire lifetime.
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@mp22893 To be more clear, he is also a grifter. Like a snake oil salesman, they claim to be selling you something beneficial, but they're actually selling you something useless, or even harmful.
Sure, he says he's in favor of universal healthcare, but the way he promotes trying to achieve it, is the opposite direction. He literally promoted not voting for Nina Turner, not voting to add a pro-m4a vote to congress, when adding enough votes to congress is the only way to ever pass it. He promotes going third party, when all that will do is help Republicans get elected, who want to go the opposite direction. He spent much of COVID trashing the UK's completely socialized healthcare system ... promoting over the counter, out of pocket, "alternatives" to a vaccine covered by the government (a little taste of socialized healthcare) ... he doesn't actually give a f*ck, if anyone ever gets healthcare coverage.
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@DanNorton1 <- Lol, this guy doesn't like an actual debunking on his channel, and deletes or blocks them.
I pointed out the fact that Ayn Rand wasn't an anarcho-capitalist, that she actually criticized them, and that she never argued for zero taxes ... She instead argued that it was an objective fact that everyone wanted a basic skeleton government, justice system, and military, so taxes for those basics weren't coercive. Clearly, she just made that up, because it was her subjective preference. Those very anarcho types prove her wrong. Plus, people who don't want to fund police, at least not as is. Plus, people who don't want to fund the military, at least as is.
After the thread with that reply was deleted, I mentioned the deleting in another thread. He claimed he'd welcome a respectful debate about it, but now I can't reply at all.
This mighty defender of Ayn Rand doesn't even know what she actually proposed. 😂
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@michaelknight2897 Like the 80s? Conservative religious types have been cancelling things and people for millennia, and still do, or try to, and have never had a problem with using the law, or military, to do it. There's still a government agency protecting delicate conservative sensibilities from naughty words and nipples. It has only been 6 years since the Supreme Court uncancelled gay marriage across the country. Right wingers, including corporate Dems, have passed anti-bds laws.
You lot have lost your marbles. Giant corporations, run by centibillionaires, aren't even left wing. The left would like to tax the living hell out of them They're being protected by the right. Giving giant corporations so much power, in the first place, was right wing. There being no such thing as free speech on someone else's private property is a long-standing part of private property ownership, which is right wing. If you don't have a right to be on their private property, then you don't have a right to be on their private property spewing whatever nonsense you want. They're the equivalent to private clubs, with memberships, and rules for membership. Private clubs have been revoking memberships since always. If Trump kept walking into the ladies change room at a golf club, got tons of warnings that the average person wouldn't get, and finally lost his membership, that would be totally his own fault.
If you actually want free speech rights on social media, I'm pretty sure the left will back you on public ownership. Let's do it.
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Aaron Dickson You know you're in a cult when, your cult leader convinces tens of millions of people not to believe any media, any judges, any lawyers, any law enforcement, any intelligence agencies, any other politicians, any election officials, any scientists, any doctors, any nurses ... anyone ... even to not believe their own lying eyes, if any contradict said cult leader.
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Yeah, the issue is that "Latino" isn't really an ethnic grouping. It's a geographical grouping. Latinos come in wt (predominantly Spanish ancestry), blk (predominantly African slv ancestry), native (predominantly indigenous ancestry), and mixes of those. Over half of the Cuban migrants came over in the first few waves of predominantly wt Batista family members, government members, mltry, and those who got rich under him. Can't get much wtr than Ted Cruz. The Spanish almost completely gncdd the islands, leaving almost only wt and blk on the islands. Meanwhile, Latinos from Central/South America are predominantly natives, or at least a mix.
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@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp "Harris was born on Oct. 20, 1964, at the Kaiser Permanente Hospital in north Oakland."
Born in Oakland.
"For around six years, Harris lived above a daycare facility on Bancroft Way in West Berkeley, an area known as “the flatlands” that was a center for the city’s Black population. The home is about 2.5 miles away from Thousand Oaks Elementary School, where she was bused as part of the city’s desegregation program."
A little apartment over a garage converted into a daycare, doesn't sound ritzy, to me. She, and her mom, both lived in Oakland, upon returning to the US, as well.
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Weird. I've noticed that most top models, musicians, actresses, and other entertainers, considered attractive by most, lean towards being liberal, inclusive, etc. In fact, I've also noticed Republicans going on and on about these "left wing" "Hollywood elite" types, all the freaking time. I've also noticed that more centrist countries (which are left of the US) have a lot more fit people, and much less obesity, on average, than the US. I've also noticed obesity maps of the US, and the most obese states tend to be red states. But hey, I'm sure he's onto something ... or on something.
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@chestervirgil7968 Rofl. Some 20 people showed up in DC for the ftv rally. During the latest M4A rallies, AOC was campaigning for Nina, trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress. Dore, and his Dore knobs, abandoned her ... abandoned actually moving you one vote closer to ever passing the bill.
The $15 got a vote, even passed the house (M4A didn't have a chance in hell) and got a senate vote. Didn't you pathetic good for nothings pretend like just getting a vote on an important progressive policy would be great, pretend like getting a list of no voters would be great ... and now, what? Weren't you supposed to do something amazing with the optics and the list? Yet, you lot just keep whining and slandering those who got it to stay in for a round of voting and who voted for it.
Lol, you Dore knobs can't seem to make up your little minds. A bunch of you ridiculously try and make comparisons to women's suffrage, or civil rights, and yet you're here whining that a politician should be doing all the work for you. So, you're nothing like the women's suffrage or civil rights movements.
Dore benefits the far right more than the left and, either that's why you like him, because you're one of his many right wing fans, or you're being grifted and are the kind of "lefty" that ends up on the wrong end of a Night of the Long Knives.
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@Evirthewarrior No he's not. Grifters claim they're selling you something beneficial, but they're actually selling you something completely useless, or even harmful. All the directions Dore has proposed going, since 2016, actually get you no closer to, or further away from, M4A and socialism.
Intentionally skipping all pro vaccine content in articles, and only focusing on the negatives, is intentionally portraying vaccines in a more negative light. Dishonestly comparing total population hospitalization rates to a year and a half old case fatality rate, to portray covid deaths as "WILDLY inflated", promotes that covid is far less deadly than it actually is, and that vaccines aren't as necessary as people think. Lying about an article on children and covid, and outright being against vaccinating children, is blatantly anti-vax for children. Making out like there's some big pharma conspiracy, regarding vaccines given out for free and prices negotiated by government (representing a tiny sliver of what M4A would be like) is both anti-vax (making out like it's a pure profit motive) and anti-M4A. He also not only dishonestly promoted that an unproven drug is an effective remedy, but also that it's an effective preventative, which promotes a false alternative to vaccines. Between that, and being fine with Rogan's $2000+ "kitchen sink", Dore is promoting more expensive, and paid for out of pocket, alternatives. Dore has harped on vaccine side effects, like tinnitus and myocarditis, while, like Rogan, ignoring that covid causes those far more often (myocarditis over 6x more, tinnitus thousands of times more). He and Max misrepresented what was going on with the UK healthcare system (a completely socialized system, even left of M4A) and vaccines for kids, promoting a negative light on both vaccines and socialized healthcare.
He's a grifter, ffs. People have to be complete and utter morons, to not see it, by now. Or, are his numerous far right fans.
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@ComradeCatpurrnicus Nothing arbitrary about picking the beginnings of clnlism. Clnzers in North America portrayed themselves as the poor innocent victims of native "Savages!", or "Heathens!", for centuries. People bought the propaganda and, in turn, thought what was done to the Natives was perfectly fine. If you don't step in and say, "Umm, no, you did your clnzing first", then they keep falsely claiming to be on defense. Americans were fed propaganda, about Iraq, and 80% were perfectly fine with invding another country and klling hundreds of thousands of its citizens.
Look, if you don't want to read it, just don't. If you think it's not useful, then surely whining about its length is even less useful. Go debate a Znst somewhere.
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@mickelcsaszar3244 That's basically the definition of hypocrisy ... my people can do it, but you can't. A god's laws aren't objective. They're based on that god's subjectivity, and people just accept them as absolute. It's not all that different than any dictator .. anything they say is good is good, and anything they say is bad is bad. If they order genocide, it's good. If they say it's okay to own slaves, it's good. If they say those people are bad, they're bad. If they say doing X is bad, then doing X is bad. Etc. Etc.
According to the book, he literally orders bashing people's heads in with rocks, if they do multiple other things wrong, and spits out over 600 laws about what to do, and what not to do. Ordering to bash someone's head in, for collecting firewood on a Saturday, but not ordering to bash someone's head in, for owning other people, seems morally bankrupt.
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@AndrewShepherdODAS They don't know. They're all over the place.
They say gender and visible biology must match, but they've been using masculine gender terminology to identify their sxlss g0d, for thousands of years.
Alabama's SC rules life begins at fertilization. But that means we all start life sxlss (because no biological parts), or female (because only the mother's female X chromosome expresses for about the first 7 weeks).
They say gender must match birth certificate sx, but then argue someone whose birth certificate says they're female is actually a male, because XY.
They say men can't give birth, but then an XY Swyer Syndrome person, who can give birth, is then a woman.
They say XY = man, but then some don't match birth certificates, are born with vjjs, can have monthlies, and can give birth.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@timtpr7104 Oh boy, a plan to get a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, by paralyzing the house ... delaying new covid relief, new unemployment extension, new vaccine funding ... during a pandemic, if they don't do what you want. You Dore knobs know that Pelosi introduced the M4A bill just last session, right, and it died in the committees Jimmy doesn't think are important. Where was the pressure on committee members to take up the bill? She has already reintroduced the bill this session. Where is the pressure on committee members to take up the bill?
Progressives did get the $15 to stay in for a round of voting, it actually passed the house (M4A didn't have a chance in hell) and also got a senate vote. Suddenly, just getting a vote on an important progressive policy wasn't worth anything to Dore knobs. Suddenly, getting a list of no voters wasn't worth anything to Dore knobs. Just keep bitching about, and slandering, the most progressive members of congress.
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@brandonlehmann8899 Will learning any of your 'whatabout those other people' history change the fact that white men running federal, state, and local, governments, stripped black Americans of any rights? Will it change the fact that the majority of white citizens in slave owning states voted to keep slavery for almost 100 more years after independence? Will it change the fact that the Confederates enshrined owning black people into their constitution? Will it change the fact that the majority of white citizens in those former slave owning states then voted for segregation for another 100 years? Will it change the fact that all the politicians from those states voted against Civil Rights? Will it change the fact that all those majority racist voters, who had been voting for racism for almost 200 years, became disgruntled with Northern Democrats for passing Civil Rights and started voting for Republicans who were pandering to their racism? Will it change the fact that millions of black Americans migrated out of those majority racist states to less racist states, joined the Northern Democrats, have the most representation within that party? Will it change the fact that some of those former slave states still have Confederate 'Heroes" Days, still use Confederate symbols, still memorializing Confederate racists who were willing to kill and die for the "right" to own and abuse other human beings?
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@Disaletteritis These are far right loons, who represent less than 1% of Canada's hundreds of thousands of commercial freight vehicles. They have been denounced by the Canadian Trucking Alliance and the Canadian Teamsters. By blockading entry points, they caused shortages, that put thousands of people out of work, and will likely affect prices, both of which hurt the working class, and the poor, most. They're led by former picket line busters, who also harassed native protesters. They're pathetic losers "fighting" to have Canadians hospitalized and dying at a 3x higher rate, like the US. Workers fought for decades for health and safety standards, so the owners couldn't force them to take unnecessary risks. Nothing about this is for workers. It's purely about the self interests of lunatics. They're self centered spoiled brats, having a temper tantrum, because they're afraid of a little needle.
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Right. They have to believe that the most racist states in the country ... where the majority of white voters voted in pro slavery, anti abolitionist, leaders, for about 90 years ... where they seceded and were willing to die and kill for the "right" to enslave, beat, rape, torture, and kill, other human beings ... where they then voted in pro segregation, anti desegregation, leaders, for another 100 years ... all suddenly up and became the least racist states in the country, electing the least racist party. It couldn't possibly be that racists from those same racist places started running as Republicans and all the same racists started voting Republican.
Anyone who can't see the switch is insane.
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@rtorres4132 The Republican party has been giving a home to extremists, since at least the 50s ... extreme anti-socialist McCarthy types, southern racists, religious extremists, Reaganomics, gun nuts, Tea Party nutters, science deniers, Trump cultists, Qanoners ... it has become a party of lunatics. And there's as much, if not more, corruption amongst Republican politicians than corporate Dems. They'll take in any psycho, or criminal, if it gives them a chance to win. It doesn't really matter what Democrats or progressives do.
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@Nick-o-time She literally votes against the defense appropriation bill, every time. You want her to vote against the entire budget, including SNAP, Medicaid, Medicare, SS, education, housing, etc., etc., etc.
She also votes against the State Department appropriation bill, that includes the annual aid to Israel.
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@mpgallogly I talked policy, and you ignored me. Trump dropped more bombs than Obama, ffs, and they kept blathering on about some completely irrelevant UN report. That UN investigation didn't even start until after the US bombed Syria. It was a no fault finding investigation, so didn't even blame Syria. Plus, the final report didn't come out until almost a year later. It had absolutely nothing to do with anyone's decision to bomb Syria. Why weren't they spending all their time attacking Trump, for deciding to bomb Syria?
Plus, they attack people for simply accepting that Assad is a brutal dictator that has used chemical weapons, as if that makes people CIA agents. In reality, it's quite possible to both accept that Assad is a brutal dictator, and think that the US shouldn't be unilaterally, or with tiny coalitions of the willing, intervening in other countries. You can criticize leaders of both countries, instead of going out of your way to kiss ass with a brutal dictator.
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Israel is objectively the aggressor, by every relevant measure...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@wvu05 I've asked 1 before, too, without getting many answers. A couple pointed at the 50s ... when the US was 40% unionized and there was a high marginal tax rate, lol. Oh, and they didn't mind the segregation.
Yeah, Trumpets seem genuinely clueless as to things Obama did. They don't seem to know that the economy has been on the same trajectory it is now, since 2009. They don't seem to know there has been a negative net undocumented migration rate, for about a decade. They don't seem to know the ACA, which polls well with them, is "Obamacare", which polls badly with them. They try to claim their hate for him isn't just racism, but they don't actually know specifics policies, to hate.
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Call them out for what, exactly? AOC actually voted against the individual state department appropriation bill and voted against the individual defense appropriation bill. What morons, like Jackson, apparently want her to do is then vote against the entire budget, which includes healthcare, education, housing, veteran's benefits, SNAP, SSI, etc.
She also voted against the final version of the Capitol Hill police bill. Dore knobs don't seem to know that it was heavily amended, in the senate, and sent back for a second house vote.
That state department appropriation bill she voted against is what includes the annual offensive military aid to Israel. So what, if she didn't vote against a purely defensive system? She didn't vote for it, either, and it was a blowout vote. Her vote made no difference. Progressives have a bill to put conditions on the offensive military aid to Israel. They have an anti anti-BDS laws bill. They've been calling it out as an apartheid. Get a grip on reality and complain about the 400+ house members who voted for it, ffs.
So what, if they didn't force a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote on M4A? The $15, dimwit Jackson was complaining they weren't getting a vote on, already did get a vote. It passed the house (M4A didn't have a shot in hell), and also got a senate vote. What have Dore knobs done with two precious lists of no voters? Just keep bitching and complaining about those who voted for it, like pathetic useless hypocrites.
And, learn some basic math skills. There are zero extra votes to be gained to the left of progressives, which means it's impossible to pass a bill without Manchin. There is the entire Republican party to try and draw extra votes from, to the right of Manchin. Bring enough Republicans on board and you can easily pass bills without needing squad votes. The squad only have leverage if a bill is "must pass", to Manchin. If he doesn't care if a bill will die ... zero leverage. If he amends a bill to the right, to bring enough Republicans on board ... zero leverage. Which bill has been "must pass", to Manchin, which he couldn't get Republicans on board for?
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Basically, take democracy to its extreme. You could still have the bureaucracies required to run large countries, if you want to keep a nation together. Those bureaus would just take orders directly from the people, rather than untrustworthy and corruptible politicians. You'd keep jobs needed to run society ... legal system, police, regulatory bodies, public works, etc. ... all answering directly to the people, and abandon jobs not really needed in a moneyless society ... banking, marketing, advertising, insurance, stock market, etc. The later, and any unemployed people would help do the necessary work, meaning everyone could work less to keep society functioning. Any automation would also mean people could work less at the remaining jobs but still get equal benefits of a functioning society.
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@moe433 Not too hard a concept. A grifter, like a snake oil salesman, claims to be selling you something beneficial, but is actually selling you something completely useless, or even harmful.
So, for example, Dore claims to be for M4A. He promoted Trump (platform: toss 10+m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion) as a better option than Clinton (platform: add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion), which is going outright backwards. He peddled Tulsi M4A is unAmerican Gabbard, over Bernie, outright campaigning against M4A. He peddles sitting on the sidelines in some irrelevant third party, and letting corporate Dems and Republicans rule for decades to come, which gets you no closer to passing M4A. He publicly abandoned Nina Turner, abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress, which gets you no closer to passing M4A. The government negotiated under $20 vaccines, that are then given out for free, is like a tiny taste of what M4A would look like, and he continuously sows distrust in the government and "big pharma", while peddling more expensive, paid for out of pocket, alternatives ... peddling the more privatized healthcare options. He, and Max, spewed misinformation about the UK's completely socialized healthcare system, sowing distrust in that system, which is even left of M4A.
All the directions he leads people get you no closer to, or even further away from, M4A.
Get it?
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@myroslavprotsiv9925 Rofl, what an asinine argument. So, if you forget your driver's license, you expect a pass from the cops? If you forget a proof of age, you expect a pass from a bar, smoke shop, or lottery outlet? If you forget your normal passport, you expect a pass at the border? If you forget your Costco membership, gym membership, or whatnot, you expect a free pass, to get in? If you forget your bank card, you expect free access to your account?
Forgetting an id sucks, but it happens all the time. Get a grip.
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@heidibenner1577 Action is AOC and Bernie on the ground campaigning for Nina Turner, promoting M4A, and trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress. Adding more yes votes to congress is the most important thing, when getting enough yes votes is the only possible way to ever pass a bill. AOC also helped add a few more in the general election.
A 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, doesn't get you any closer to being able to pass the bill. Publicly abandoning Nina Turner ... abandoning adding another M4A yes vote to congress ... as Dore did, doesn't get you closer to being able to pass the bill. Sitting on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party doesn't get you any closer to being able to pass the bill and, if you let Republicans win, or let a corporate Dem win back a progressive seat, could actually move you further away. Promoting Tulsi M4A is unAmerican Gabbard over Bernie doesn't get you any closer to being able to pass the bill ... in fact, voting against having an M4A president is actually the opposite. Trashing government negotiated under $20 prices on vaccines that are given out for free (a tiny taste of what M4A would be like) as some "big pharma" conspiracy, and spreading a general fear of the government, doesn't get you any closer to being able to pass the bill. Having your buddy Max on, so the two of you can misrepresent the UK's completely socialized healthcare system, doesn't get you any closer to being able to pass the bill.
All the "action" Dore promotes gets you no closer, or even further away from, ever passing the bill. He's a grifter, who pretends he's selling you something beneficial, but is actually selling you something completely useless, or even harmful.
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@edwardrosser938 Rofl! Hilarious, coming from a Dore knob. Jimmy slanders anyone who disagrees with him a "fake", "fraud", "sellout", or whatnot. He's a grifting loudmouth, who slanders anyone who disagrees with him, peddles endless bullshit, who throws henchmen (anonymous producers) under the bus for his mistakes, has conned his followers into thinking he "tells it like it is", and it's almost entirely hopeless trying to have a conversation with them. Sound familiar? Case in point, I stated facts about Dore's dishonest take on numbers ... it's clearly just math ... and you still came here to try and defend him. Go ahead and argue against the reality of math. Make me laugh, Dore knob.
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@korhashamo It's to point out that idiots, like Greenwald, and likely you, don't know what "censorship" is. A privately owned and operated news company picking and choosing which articles it wants to write/print, and which it doesn't, has nothing to do with "censorship". If the authorities were forcing them not to write/print something, then that would be censorship. Likewise, private companies picking and choosing what people can, and can't, post on their privately owned websites, or store on their privately owned servers, isn't censorship.
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@chestervirgil7968 The $15 passed the house in the covid relief bill, dimwit. It got an actual vote, and passed the house. It didn't pass the senate, then went back to the house for a second vote. It was after that, that Bernie tried to get it in reconciliation. If the house hadn't passed the senate bill that was sent back, do you even know what happens next? It goes to house-senate negotiation, where the squad can try and pull in zero extra votes by making concessions to the zero members of congress to the left of them, and Manchin can try and pull in extra votes by making concessions to the 50 senators and 212 house members to the right of the party. In a standoff, a bill will most likely move right, not left. That is all besides the point that Dore is a pathetic useless hypocrite, who did nothing with the optics of voting against raising the minimum during a pandemic and nothing with the list of no voters. He just keeps whining, bitching about, and slandering, those who voted for it.
AOC endorsed Nina in March, you dishonest douchebag. She then campaigned for her in the final stretch. Meanwhile, Dore was slandering AOC, claiming she had abandoned M4A, while she was actively trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress. It was him who had publicly abandoned Nina and abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress. While he was stupidly wondering where AOC was on M4A march day, she was at Nina rallies. Oh my, Dore's comment section must have been in an uproar over Dore abandoning Nina and slandering AOC and Bernie, who was also campaigning with Nina. Was it? Did you all call him out as a lying grifter?
Dore, and his knobs, benefit the far right. That's just a fact.
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@whyamimrpink78 You didn't answer my question. How is trying to overthrow the democratic process and install an unelected ruler, "limited government and giving people more freedom"?
You're telling people to cut the cord? Trump (the federal government), convinced tens of millions of stupid right wingers not to believe any media, any judges, any lawyers, any election officials, any law enforcement, any intelligence agencies, any scientists, any doctors, any nurses ... anyone ... even to not believe their own lying eyes, if they contradicted him (the federal government). He (the federal government) convinced millions to go against their local and state governments. He (the federal government) fired, or threatened to fire, any federal workers who contradicted him. How is the most Big Brother like government in US history, "limited government and giving people more freedom"?
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@whyamimrpink78 Like BLM, the Civil Rights movement in the 60s, wasn't some centrally organized movement, with an official leader, or anything. MLK Jr wasn't Malcolm X who wasn't Huey Newton, etc. And nobody actually had any control over spontaneous protests and riots, over police brutality, or what not. So, whether MLK Jr spoke against violence is irrelevant to whether the entire movement should be considered a terrorist group, because some rioted in some places. Over 90% of BLM protests are peaceful. Various different BLM leaders have spoken out against rioting and looting. And, yet, you're still calling the entire movement a terrorist group.
You seem to be heading towards an argument where being a "terrorist" isn't necessarily a bad thing ... one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter ... and you simply don't like the BLM cause.
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@Gee-xb7rt Yeah. The fact that she actually opposed lowercase "l" right libertarians (ancappers), and argued that there needed to be a government, with minimal services ... "the police, the armed forces, the law courts" ... leads to her defeating herself. She just asserts that everyone would voluntarily pay taxes for those "necessities", so it wouldn't be involuntary taxes. But, we see, all the time, that people would love to not fund the police, the military, and probably wouldn't want to fund racist or bigoted courts, especially ones that constantly side with the rich, or the prison system, if they had the option. Definitely not some universal truth, that everyone would voluntarily fund those things. The rich would, and would use it to oppress the poor, is what would likely happen ... like calling in the military to bust strikes, or whatnot, like the good ol' days. That's why those things are a "necessity", in her mind ... to protect people with property and wealth.
I might argue that capitalism can exist without a "government", but likely not without some kind of force, unless everyone is magically voluntarily following the same belief system. Feudalism, and absolute monarchies, are less "governments" and are more a form of governance, like a major company. They're private property owners, with their hired private armies, enforcing whatever rules they want on their private property, and charging people whatever they want for the use of their property, resources, etc. I don't consider privately owned and operated "governments" to be real governments.
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@masterofmashup1737 It is literally a Catholic catechism, that God is sexless, and yet they still call it "he", "him", and even "Father". Catholics are still the majority of Christians. Orthodox teachings are basically the same as Catholicism. That is the standard teachings of Judaism and Islam, as well. It is also what most Protestants teach. It is basically only some evangelicals and Mormons who teach God has a form.
These people know there's a difference between gender and sex. Plenty of them probably also call their sexless cars and boats "her" and "she", regularly assigning genders, and using gender pronouns, that don't match a being's, or an object's, sex. In cases of referring to some unknown person, that they don't know the sex of, they know perfectly well how to use "they" and "them" in the singular (Someone left me flowers. I wish I knew who they were, so I could thank them). They know gender and sex are different. They know how to use the English language. They're simply bigoted hypocrites who only get upset when the LGBT community does it.
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@davidmeadows5627 Not every insult is an "ad hominem". You should learn what it means, before tossing it around so wildly.
The religious right has been cancelling people, and things, for millennia, and have used the law, and authorities, to do it. A private company deciding what people can, and can't, say, on their platform, doesn't violate any American values. People protesting those they don't agree with, doesn't violate American values. The US was founded on protesting against companies that supported the crown, or vice versa, even destroying their property. Meanwhile, you have actual Republican lawmakers, tossing books and dictating language. If you know how the first amendment works, then you should know which is more of an infringement on American values, and rights.
There's a difference between "voter ID laws" and strict voter ID laws. Canada is one of those "other countries", with "voter ID laws", but they aren't strict. You can bring in household bills, student IDs, and all kinds of things, to indicate who you are. Nobody really has a problem with having to provide some way of identifying yourself. The problem is if you narrow it down to a few very specific forms of ID, that some demographics are less likely to already have, in some states very significantly less likely.
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@Stickyfingers420 Dore was arguing to "withhold" votes for Pelosi, not arguing to cast protest votes against Pelosi, and he misinformed people, claiming it would be impossible for McCarthy to win because 218 votes are needed to get the majority of the house.
But, it's actually the majority of votes cast, and for every 2 abstentions, "present", absentees, or unfilled seats, it lowers the threshold needed to win by 1, because those don't count as votes. Pelosi just won with 216, even though Jimmy claimed 218 was needed, and slandered anyone who said otherwise.
If the 15 progressives Dore named, simply "withheld" their votes, then the threshold needed to win would be lowered to 210 (one unfilled seat makes 16, 218 - 8 = 210). That would give McCarthy (212) more votes than Pelosi (209), and the majority of votes cast. He'd win.
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@SR-lh4rm Bullshit. I didn't say it doesn't generate revenue. I said he's clueless. It doesn't tax businesses, as Yang falsely claims. What Scandinavian countries do to make the rich and businesses pay in: very high unionization, higher wages, paid parental leave, more paid vacations, higher income tax on the wealthy, having them pay for retraining, having oil companies with majority state ownership, etc. ... and then they tax their better paid, higher standard of living, consumers, for more social benefits. Yang skips most of that, and doesn't have businesses paying in. If you want a VAT, do Bernie's stuff first.
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@Addamo Dore has been slandering people who have done more for M4A in a few years than he has in his entire lifetime. He promotes the third party route, that hasn't won the most popular third party a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence, peddling some fantasy where third parties are incorruptible and will only produce perfectly perfect candidates ... you know, like Kyrsten Sinema. He did, in fact, promote Tulsi over Bernie, which you're just lying about. He didn't care if 10m of the poorest Americans were thrown off Medicaid expansion, didn't care to try and add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion, did support the "medicare choice" candidate over the M4A candidate, and then turned around and made himself out to be the one true champion of healthcare, because he came up with a stupid way to get a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote. He argued that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong). He promoted Trump as the better option than Clinton, vastly overestimating the benefits, claiming it would lead to progressives "for sure" taking the house and senate in 2018 (wrong) and the presidency in 2020 (wrong), and vastly underestimating the risks, claiming even Republicans would join the left and vote against a Trump agenda rather than follow him into all out fascism (wrong).
If he's not a grifter, then he's a complete and utter moron. Either way, he benefits the far right more than the left.
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@terryarcona3254 Who'd ensure it wouldn't be like that, at all?
On the Western frontier, before the government and law had much of a presence, private property owning cattle barons, with their privately hired cowboy armies, threw their weight around, slaughtering thousands of sheep, ripping down fences, and even killing herders and their supporters. Feudalism is just a bunch of private property owners, with their private armies, charging rent on their private property, and making rules for living on their private property. With no authority above those private property owners, they resolved their property disputes privately.
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@Daneelro Yeah, that's why I like the 2D political compass, for authoritarian vs anti-authoritarian takes. Being authoritarian, or anti-authoritarian, isn't necessarily left, or right. You can like someone's takes on some anti-authoritarian issues, but people shouldn't let that fool them, that they're on the same side, when it comes to a majority of political issues. Glenn's (and Dore's) recent "free speech" rantings have been very much the kind you hear from right wingers, even if they are seemingly anti-authoritarian. They never propose public ownership, which would give people free speech rights. They pretend like people are losing "free speech" righs, when nobody ever had such rights on someone else's private property, to begin with. They just seem to expect to be able to say whatever they want on someone else's private property, even expecting to dodge editors, whose jobs it is to literally edit your work before publication. And, if Glenn's take on Trump is similar to Dore's, Dore simply agreed with Tucker about how problematic it was for Trump to be removed from social media. Aside from what I mentioned above, Dore also never pointed out that incitement isn't even protected speech. If Glenn also doesn't point that out, then they're just defending far right wing insurrectionists, who wanted to overthrow the democratic process to install Dumpty as an unelected dictator.
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@khersonskiyarbuzkhersonski2460 Incorrect. Ukrn was trying to join the EU, not NATO. Yanukovych was elected stating he supported joining the EU. Pvtin then implemented an Eastern blockade on Ukrn trade, until Yanukovych folded, and backed out of joining the EU. That's when the protests started. The US had no reason to be planning the protests, or a coup, because Yanukovych had been saying he'd join the EU. People were just pissed. Yanukovych then fled the country. Pvtin then invdd, took Crimea, and started supplying manpower, wpns, and money, to rbls in Donbass.
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@shanabell8603 Jimmy has had a video, since the Shaun video, about covid deaths. In it, he starts with vaccinated and unvaccinated hospitalization rates, 0.01% and 0.89%, that are based on the total vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, which is clearly stated in the Gallup article he cites. Jimmy instead uses the numbers as if they're based on only the infected population, and immediately makes out like the hospitalization rates are crazy low. He then compares those hospitalization rates to a "death rate" that is obviously a year and a half old case fatality rate, 3.4%. Then ... you know, since 3.4% is so much higher than 0.9% ... he makes out like covid deaths have been "WILDLY inflated". If you're using total population hospitalization rates, then the "death rate" you want is the covid crude mortality rate, which is about 0.25%. There's nothing incompatible with 0.9% and 0.25%. Jimmy was falsely making out like hospitalization rates were much lower than they actually are, for those infected, and that people were being lied to about death rates, all of which panders to the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers, who have been claiming covid is no worse than a cold or flu. Plus, he basically completely ignores that he has just shown numbers indicating that the unvaccinated are being hospitalized at 89x the rate of the vaccinated.
Either Jimmy didn't read the Gallup article, himself, to know what kind of hospitalization rates he was using, or he's a complete and utter moron who, himself, decided to use the incorrect "death rate" ... a complete and utter moron who couldn't find a "death rate" that's newer than a year and a half old (case fatality rates change constantly) ... a complete and utter moron who couldn't do the simple math to find out the latest case fatality rate, or crude mortality rate, himself. He's either completely ignorant or completely dishonest. Take your pick.
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Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan", platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
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@daniellove162 Every Republican voted against the $15, in congress. Whatever the hell is going on at the state level is irrelevant. NYC and Washington DC already have $15 minimums, not 5 years from now. Multiple states already have minimums above Florida's current minimum, and it'll take Florida a few years to even catch up to them. Wouldn't your "logic" mean that all the Democratic places that are out in front of Florida, are evidence they can pass minimum wage bills, and do it sooner? Wouldn't the fact that almost all of them voted for it in congress be evidence they're ahead of Republicans on the issue?
The $15 would be an important progressive policy, that got a vote in the house, actually passed (M4A didn't have a chance in hell), and also got a senate vote. Weren't you Dore knobs supposed to be doing something with lists of no voters, instead of bitching about, and slandering, those who voted for it?
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@michaelbarquero6079 You get an F on analogies. You're concept of reality is completely backwards. It's you and Shapiro that are, literally, telling the NFL to shut up and play football. And, I'm the one telling you how to protest ... turn the channel, don't see the movie, or whatever, if you don't like it.
Again, a tangent of deflection, from you, and ironically strawmanning me, with something someone else may have said, while complaining about strawmanning. You're clearly not very bright, and me saying so is just a statement of fact.
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@edwardrosser938 Jimmy promoted Trump (platform: toss 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion) over Clinton (platform: add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion). He peddled Tulsi (public option) over Bernie (M4A). He slanders progressives who have done more for M4A in a few years than he has in his entire lifetime. He slandered Bernie and AOC, claiming they had abandoned M4A, at the exact time they were on the ground campaigning for Nina Turner, promoting M4A, and trying to add another M4A advocate to congress. Dore, on the other hand, publicly abandoned Nina ... abandoned adding another M4A advocate to congress. He peddles the third party route, that hasn't won the most popular third party a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. He has peddled allying with "extreme free market" nutjobs that want to start a civil war, who would outright shoot any leftists trying to enact M4A, after you help them topple the government.
Do you know what "grifter" means? It means they're selling themselves as one thing, but they're actually selling you something else. The directions Jimmy proposes going provide zero evidence he actually wants M4A. What he says doesn't match what he does.
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@edwardrosser938 That wasn't Dore's argument for Trump over Clinton. He argued Trump was far worse. His claim was that a Trump presidency would cause a massive progressive backlash, exactly because he was so much worse. He claimed it would "for sure" lead to progressives taking the house (wrong) and senate (wrong), in 2018, and the presidency (wrong), in 2020. He claimed even Republicans would join the left and vote against a Trump presidency (wrong) rather than follow him into fascism (wrong). In his debate with Sam over it, he claimed Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong). He was wrong about everything. The very basis of his argument, that things had to get worse to have a bigger progressive movement, wasn't based on any kind of reality. Bernie had just created a progressive movement right after an Obama presidency.
“In short, when it comes to the war against terrorists, I’m a hawk. When it comes to counterproductive wars of regime change, I’m a dove.” - Tulsi Gabbard, Hawaii Tribune-Herald, 2016
Pretty much every US intervention, since 9/11 used the war on terrorism as grounds. She was always a grifter, and Jimmy grifter for her. He spent months backing a public option candidate against the M4A candidate, then turned around and made out like not supporting some secondary tactic to get a performance art vote, was the end all and be all, slandering anyone who didn't jump onboard as "fakes", "frauds", "sellouts". All those labels should apply to him, for outright going against the M4A candidate.
Yes, he and his wife publicly announced they had stopped donating to Nina, and then promoted never supporting anyone running as a Democrat ever again. The Trump presidency actually hurt Bernie's progressive movement. People went screaming into Joe Biden's "more electable" arms. They didn't want to risk having Trump around another term. It did the opposite of what Dore fantasized.
Jimmy is a fringe "progressive". He represents only a few hundred thousand people that voted for Tulsi, and Green party, in the last election. The vast majority of progressives vote for, and support, all the progressives he keeps trashing. His audience has become more and more packed with right wing loons.
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@Stegibbon Yeah, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They've cancelled, or attempted to cancel ... the non religious, pagans, other religions, other denominations, women's rights, women in pants, women's ankles, then knees, then thighs, they've cancelled books and movies, they still have a government agency protecting delicate conservative sensibilities from naughty words and nipples, religious grounds were used to cancel blacks being treated like human beings, ... and they've used the actual government, "justice" system, and military, to do it. Their psycho right wing president was firing, or threatening to fire, any federal workers who contradicted him, and they were fine with that. But, then express horror, if private companies (that they wanted to have rights like people and have given so much power to) decide for themselves to cancel crap.
They're insanely hypocritical.
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Everyone wearing seatbelts, following speed limits, not drinking and driving, heeding traffic lights, maintaining safe vehicles, etc., help reduce the frequency of automobile accidents, and how deadly they are. Everyone ignoring those things help increase the frequency and how deadly they are. And, the second group can have an effect on the first group, dimwit, which doesn't make what the first group is doing ineffective.
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@robinsss Landlords, laying claim to entire countries, oppressing the majority and leaving them destitute, ending with revolutions and some landlords losing their heads. Allowing for the ownership of other human beings, ending with the most deadly and destructive war on US soil. The Gilded Age ending with massive labor riots, a great depression, and having to introduce socialistic policies to fix things a bit. Little, to no, oversight on the western frontier, allowing for private property owning cattle barons to hire their own private armies, and resolve things privately ... slaughtering tens of thousands of sheep, destroying property, and even killing those who put up a fight against them (basically the beginnings of feudalism). It is currently failing hundreds of thousands of homeless, tens of millions in poverty, hundreds of thousands with medical debt, etc., in the US alone.
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@ZooomaCW You can't "demonstrate" anything, if you don't provide any evidence to support your case. Without it, you're just blathering.
The "they" would be Trump and over 100 Republican members of congress trying to overthrow the democratic process, based on bullshit. The "they" would be the 28% of Republican voters surveyed stating they didn't want Trump to concede under any circumstances. The "they" would be the right wing media that have had to backtrack due to defamation lawsuit threats, and the psycho lawyers being sued for defamation, for spouting bullshit. And, yes, the "they" would also include those who physically tried to stop the process by storming the Capitol after they were incited by being fed said bullshit for weeks.
Rofl. Trump outright fires people who don't tow the party line, or state truths that don't match his lies. He has called for voters to cancel Republican politicians who didn't support his lies. He wanted to cancel funding to states and cities that didn't do as he said. He has called for plenty of other people to be fired, as well, from reporters to athletes. He convinced tens of millions of people not to believe any media, any judges, any election officials, any politicians (even Republicans), if they contradicted him. He totally just convinced a ton of people to cancel FOX for not being psycho enough anymore. Gaetz just held a cancel Liz Cheney rally. What rock do you live under?
You also seem to have reading comprehension problems, and misunderstood wanting a dictator and dictatorship, as meaning currently is a dictator and dictatorship. The dictatorship part would be after you've kept the unelected ruler in power, and thrown the democratic process out the window.
Yeah, no, that doesn't equate to fascism.
"Fascism is the complete opposite of Marxian socialism" ~ Mussolini
The complete opposite of the Marxian ideal of stateless non-authoritarian democratic socialism, is an ultra-nationalistic authoritarian undemocratic crony capitalism. Which box do Republicans, who take the extra step of trying to end the democratic process, still need to fill?
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@BlazingOwnager Republicans are banning things that aren't even taught in public schools. They're banning abortions and putting bounties on people who get abortions. Calling for the death penalty for getting an abortion. They're banning taking safety measures against a deadly virus. They're banning bds. They're making it more difficult and dangerous to protest. They're making it more difficult to vote. Their leader outright called to overthrow the democratic process to keep himself on as an unelected dictator. The majority of Republican lawmakers tried to overthrow the democratic process to keep him on as an unelected dictator. The majority of Republican voters believe the lies that led some of them to try and violently overthrow the democratic process. They defend police that kill their own citizens at hundreds of times the rate of numerous other developed countries. They defend having the largest prison population in the world. They defend charging, and convicting, certain people at higher rates, for similar crimes. They defend sentencing certain people for longer periods of time, for similar crimes. Etc. Etc. Etc. All of which uses government power.
And, you're whining about some on the left using public pressure? It's, literally, akin to something ancappers actually promote, leaving bad Yelp reviews to fight racism, sexism, bigotry, and other forms of discrimination, instead of using the government. Give me a break. If you have to ""walk on eggshells" to not say something racist, or whatnot, then the problem is you.
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@Evirthewarrior Getting a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, isn't actually doing something that moves you closer to ever passing M4A. Using your platform and PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A progressives, helping to remove a few more corporate Dems, and helping to add a few more M4A yes votes to congress, actually does move you closer to ever being able to pass the bill. AOC was just trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress, in Nina Turner. Dore, on the other hand, abandoned Nina ... abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress. You're living outside reality, as to who is actually doing more to pass the bill. AOC has done more for M4A in 2 years than Dore has in his entire lifetime.
Firstly, you Dore knobs don't seem to know that that wasn't the final vote on the bill, or the final version of the bill. Secondly, the Capitol police don't have a mandate to charge people for any and all crimes, outside Capitol grounds. Outside Capitol grounds, their only mandate is to protect members of congress. What is it you're afraid having a couple in the field, in California and Florida, investigating threats on congress members, is going to lead to?
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@rickduval2025 You, Hinkle, and pretty much every Dore knob, are dishonest twits. Each department has their own individual appropriation bill, before the budget vote. She voted no on the state department appropriation bill. She voted no on the defense appropriation bill. Then, the budget is based on all the appropriation bills. You idiots are shitting on her for not voting against the budget, which includes Medicaid, affordable housing, education, veteran's benefits, SNAP, SSI, etc.
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@2727rogers You're lying. A handful of Canadian parliament members do not have the power to paralyze parliament, did not paralyze parliament, did not threaten to paralyze parliament. Canada's healthcare system is more like Medicaid for all, and is a province/federal partnership, with the provinces actually running it. It was started by one province, others followed, and then the federal government got involved and made it nationwide.
Progressive politicians, TYT, Packman, MJ, and others were just heavily promoting, or campaigning for, Nina Turner, trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress, because getting enough yes votes in congress is the only possible way to ever pass M4A. Dore, on the other hand, abandoned Nina, abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress. He's a grifter. He doesn't actually care if anyone else ever gets healthcare.
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@youtubemoderationtaskforce5583
Not assuming anything. It's pretty clear, that you're making a defense.
I was talking attempts, or thwarted attempts, not simply violence that doesn't lead to deaths, nor simply thinking without acting. White supremacists make far more attempts than Muslim extremists. Attempting, but failing, to murder is still trying to kill someone, and isn't simply an assault, or whatnot. Getting caught plotting to murder people is planning to kill people, not simply having a praiseworthy thought crime.
And, again, a terrorist threat would be more of a threat to the nation, and not simply the individuals living in it. Targetting a governor, targetting the Capitol, etc., are more of a threat to keeping the government functioning. "Terrorism" isn't simply about causing terror, it includes doing it to achieve a political outcome. Gangs fighting, or a spouse killing their spouse, aren't trying to achieve political outcomes.
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@guiagaston7273 Jimmy outright promoted Trump as the better option than Clinton, which only benefits Trump. He peddled Tulsi over Bernie, outright working against Bernie and M4A. He ran a constant attack ad campaign against Trump's only remaining viable opponent, Biden, which only benefits Trump. He slanders progressives that have done more for M4A in a few years than he has in his entire lifetime, which only benefits corporate Dems and Republicans. He peddles a third party fantasy, which only benefits corporate Dems and Republicans. He publicly abandoned Nina Turner ... abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress ... and promoted never voting for anyone running as a Dem ever again, which only benefits corporate Dems and Republicans. He peddled allying with "extreme free market" psycho Boogaloos, who want to start a civil war, overthrow the government, and have society run on pure capitalism. He goes on white nationalist television just to largely agree with right wing talking points, which only benefits right wing propaganda tv, and their audience.
Government negotiated prices on vaccines, and then giving them out for free, is a tiny taste of universal healthcare. Dore and Max also lied about the completely socialized UK healthcare system. Dore has also peddled more expensive, and paid for out of pocket, vaccine alternatives. Dore pandering to anti-vaxxers is also anti-universal healthcare.
Like all grifters, he claims to be selling you something beneficial, but is actually selling you something completely useless, or even harmful (Trump was running on tossing 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion, ffs).
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The broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. At that point, they'll be able to pick the party speaker candidate, and set the party agenda, for the house. If also the majority of the house, that speaker could also pick committee seats, pick which bills to introduce, pick which bills to not introduce, etc.
In an alternate reality, where the progressive caucus was an entirely different party, what you'd have is a Trump presidency (due to vote splitting between Dem voters and progressives), Pence as the senate tie breaker, and a Republican plurality in the house. Republicans would only have to work with a few of the most conservative Dems, to pass whatever they wanted, and could completely ignore the progressive party, altogether.
There is more power in getting 15 more seats within the Democratic party, than getting 115 seats outside the Democratic party. Plus, the reality is that most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. Also, the "vote blue" strategy works both ways. Those who vote against progressives in the primaries tend to turn around and vote for them in the generals. Any hope of Bernie actually winning a general election, if he got through the primary, would have rested entirely upon those who voted against him turning around and voting for him. If you split the voters, you'd pretty much be handing any tight districts, and the presidency, to Republicans, for decades to come.
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Sam's problem though, was that he defined religions, especially Islam, as if there was one true interpretation, and then argued that those who didn't believe exactly what he claimed the one true Islam to be, were less religious, were "nominal" Muslims. He was, basically, making the same argument the likes of ISIS makes, that anyone who doesn't believe what they believe isn't a "true" Muslim.
The actual fact is that people interpret things, cherry pick, give weight to, include additional writings and rulings, differently. Even people in the same church, temple, synagogue, or mosque, can have somewhat different beliefs. A pacifist Muslim isn't necessarily less religious, anymore than a Quaker is less religious than some hate filled Southern Baptist spewing that all gays should be stoned to death.
If you portray Islam as a singular, horrible, "motherlode of bad ideas", and every single Muslim on the planet practices Islam, by definition, then you've said something about what every single Muslim on the planet believes and practices. Broad brushing, like that, generally makes you wrong, out of the gate.
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@Packster Mosk Life is force. Nobody gets to choose to be born, let alone choose to be born in a specific geographic region, with a specific economic system. Life then forces you to find food, water, and shelter, or die. But the natural state of affairs, was that nobody owned anything.
You're the one creating the artificial state, where property is privately owned. And, if all the property that is currently publicly owned by governments were also privately owned, I'd be forced to make money to pay someone else to own my property or to rent property, pay someone else for building materials, pay someone else for water, pay someone else for food, pay someone else for electricity, etc., or rot on the streets and die. With that, comes most people being forced to make that money by working for someone else. All those someones would have some power over my life, my ability to survive, and could set the prices for what I need to survive, and set the wage I get to try and survive on.
History has shown that large landowners, and major business owners, often treat their renters and employees like shit. Sure, people have risen up and chopped off the heads of large landowners. Sure, workers have risen up in massive strikes and riots. You can blather about them using "force", but they were already being forced to work for next to nothing, barely being able to pay for all their costs. Making out like they freely entered into agreements with their employers and landlords, when the other option was to "freely" rot and die, is absolutely moronic.
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@whyamimrpink78 You're lying and deflecting. You can alternatively work from home and have what you need delivered. Other forms of transportation are irrelevant to the point. We do X, Y, and Z, to reduce the numbers of automobile accidents, and reduce the mortality rate. We do X, Y, and Z, to reduce the numbers of covid cases, and reduce the mortality rate. Vaccines are not 100% effective. You idiots spreading it around continue to challenge efficacy rates, plus create variants that could pose even more of a challenge. You're arguing that your drinking, speeding, ignoring signs and lights, and lack of a seatbelt won't harm anyone who follows the rules of the road ... while increasing the odds of you crashing into them, flying through your window, and impaling them with your broken bones.
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@headcrusher1966 Destroying confidence in the most progressive politians in congress, by calling them sellouts, fakes, shills, or whatnot, is a fucking problem. For what? For a vote guaranteed to fail. And, since there is no danger in it passing, there's no reason why those who have signed on for it wouldn't vote for it ... exposing nobody, and leaving you with the same names you have now. Plus, running the risk of them using the excuse that it was just voted on to put off voting for it again, for years. Attack the people against M4A, ffs, not those in favor of M4A.
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@ENDURANCELAND Wow, you are so ignorant. When the Roman Empire converted, they forced Christianity on their population, persecuting pagans, and spreading it, as they conquered. There were Northern crusades force converting Northern Europeans. Crusades weren't a defense. They were an offense. One of the deadliest wars in history, was Chinese Christians trying to force Christianity on the rest of China, led by Jesus's Chinese brother.
Muslims didn't tend to force convert the population, either, which is why the Spanish population was still almost all Christians, when it was reconquered. The Christians who reconquered it, on the other hand, offered the Muslim and Jewish population the options of conversion, exile, or death. Jews fled with Muslims to the Ottoman Empire, where they were safer.
Israel's colonization is also the ethnic cleansing kind, like in the Americas. Muslims typically used the standard conquer and rule method, rather than the remove and replace method. Most "Arabs" are linguistically Arab, and don't actually originate from Arabia. Palestinian "Arabs", for example, are most closely related, genetically, to other peoples of the Levant, including the Jewish population, than they are to Arabian Arabs. They're the same peoples who have been ruled over by pagans, Jews, Christians, and Muslims, and not colonizers from the Arabian peninsula. They simply converted at some point, along the way.
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@LastBref The thing is that his current tirade is not good on civil liberties. It's utter nonsense.
Ranting about editors asking for editorial rewrites, something that's been happening since the dawn of newspapers and literally part of their job, as if your "free speech" has been violated, is total trash.
Ranting as if private companies cancelling memberships, something that has been going on since the dawn of memberships, is some violation of "free speech", is total trash. A private property owner's right to have you removed from their private property has always trumped the non right to be on their property saying whatever you want. There's no such thing as "free speech" on private property. If he, Dore, or anyone else, actually wanted "free speech", were actually leftists, then they should not just whine about the lack of "free speech" on private property, as if that's something that ever existed. They should argue how it doesn't exist, how it can't be protected on private property, and make an argument for public ownership.
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@CatotheE Trump had been calling for months for the democratic process to be overturned, so he could become an unelected dictator. The majority of Republican lawmakers tried to overturn the democratic process, so he could become an unelected dictator. Tens of millions of Republicans believe the bullshit lies, that led hundreds of them to try and forcefully overthrow the democratic process, so he could become an unelected dictator. Ummm, there were stun guns, baseball bats, flagpoles, bear spray, pipe bombs, a working gallows, and, yes, some guns, you dimwit. How well armed, how successful, how many, etc., are all irrelevant to whether something is an insurrection, or not. It's the goal that makes it an insurrection, or not.
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@MiguelCruz-oz7km Most of his Dore knob talking points were also bullshit, as is usually the case. There's a difference between voting for the budget and voting for the state department appropriation bill. AOC voted against the appropriation bill. A vote against the budget is also a vote against Medicaid, Medicare, education, affordable housing, etc., etc., etc. She also voted against the military appropriation bill. These departments have their own individual budget request bills, before the budget vote.
Haven't run across a Dore knob, yet, that knows the Capitol Hill police bill was heavily amended in the senate, nor that she voted against it, on the final house vote.
The guy didn't even seem to know that the $15 got a vote already. It passed the house (M4A didn't have a shot in hell), and also got a senate vote. Instead of doing something with the two precious lists of no voters, they just keep bitching about those who got it to stay in for a round of voting and who voted for it.
While Dore was claiming AOC had abandoned M4A, she was literally on the ground campaigning for Nina Turner, promoting M4A, and fighting to add another M4A yes vote to congress. Adding yes votes to congress gets you closer to being able to pass the bill. Forcing a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, doesn't.
AOC used her platform and PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A progressives, in the last election. Some of those were in purple districts, and the progressive got absolutely creamed in the primaries, but the more conservative Dem managed to win the district. This midterm election is a whole other animal, and it's going to be a helluva fight to hang on to those purple district seats. Any leverage the guy thinks progressives have, rests entirely on Democrats being in the majority, and yet he sees no benefit in her helping to retain that majority. They'd prefer seeing Republicans become the majority.
They just look for any little thing to attack progressives over, while not seeming to care if fascists, that tried to overthrow the democratic process to keep Dumpty on as an unelected dictator, regain power. They're the kind of "leftists" that wind up on the wrong side of a Night of the Long Knives, when their psycho extreme right allies no longer consider them useful.
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@timothyo718 Aaron is an idiot. Besides what I mentioned above, Israel, the US, France, and the UK, had started bombing Syria, before UN inspectors even made it to the site, to start their investigation. The final report didn't come out until months later. And, that final report, as per Russian security council demands, didn't assign blame to any party. It had no real bearing on anyone's decision to bomb Syria.
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@MatthewMortensen1 It already has a basic definition. "Fascism is the complete opposite of Marxian socialism." ~ Mussolini
Marx's ideal was for a stateless, non-authoritarian, direct democracy, form of socialism. The complete opposite is an ultra-nationalistic, authoritarian, anti-democratic, form of crony capitalism.
Democrats may have some undemocratic moments, and some flag waving here and there, but they are not outright anti-democratic and ultra-nationalistic. They aren't humping flagpoles, or trying to install an unelected dictator, aren't in a constant state of "patriotism" or constantly arguing "it's not a democracy, it's a republic", etc. Republicans are far more likely to justify police brutality, or "good guys" shooting people ... more likely to call for harsher laws and punishments. And, Republicans are all worse than the most conservative Dem, when it comes to lining the pockets of corporations, and fighting against workers.
The "Samesies!" argument is moronic.
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@alabamaman9476 Top 20 cities, 12 in red states ...
1. St. Louis, Missouri
> Murder rate: 88.1 per 100,000 people
2. Petersburg, Virginia
> Murder rate: 76.9 per 100,000 people
3. Pine Bluff, Arkansas
> Murder rate: 56.5 per 100,000 people
4. New Orleans, Louisiana
> Murder rate: 51.0 per 100,000 people
5. Saginaw, Michigan
> Murder rate: 50.2 per 100,000 people
6. Detroit, Michigan
> Murder rate: 49.7 per 100,000 people
7. Trenton, New Jersey
> Murder rate: 48.2 per 100,000 people
8. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
> Murder rate: 46.7 per 100,000 people
9. Baton Rouge, Louisiana
> Murder rate: 46.5 per 100,000 people
10. Flint, Michigan
> Murder rate: 46.4 per 100,000 people
11. Riviera Beach, Florida
> Murder rate: 44.7 per 100,000 people
12. Memphis, Tennessee
> Murder rate: 44.4
13. Wilmington, Delaware
> Murder rate: 44.2 per 100,000 people
14. Cleveland, Ohio
> Murder rate: 42.2 per 100,000 people
15. Alexandria, Louisiana
> Murder rate: 41.3 per 100,000 people
16. Monroe, Louisiana
> Murder rate: 40.3 per 100,000 people
17. Shreveport, Louisiana
> Murder rate: 37.2 per 100,000 people
18. Portsmouth, Virginia
> Murder rate: 36.1 per 100,000 people
19. Kansas City, Missouri
> Murder rate: 35.2 per 100,000 people
20. Dayton, Ohio
> Murder rate: 32.8 per 100,000 people
Top 20 states, 12 red states ...
Louisiana 12.8
Maryland 10.4
Alabama 9.6
Mississippi 9
Arizona 9
Tennessee 8.3
Arkansas 8
South Carolina 7.9
New Mexico 7.9
Nevada 7.8
North Carolina 7.6
Missouri 7.3
Georgia 7.1
Michigan 6.9
California 6.9
Illinois 6.8
Delaware 6.6
Texas 6.5
Virginia 6.4
Pennsylvania 6.3
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Lol @ all the bullshit, don't contribute to society, answers. Poor people tend to spend every penny they have, putting it all entirely back into the society. Hoarders of money put less back into the economy, per dollar, if they aren't spending every penny they've got. By that measure, it's the hoarders who contribute less.
Producers also tend to pass all costs onto consumers. Even if a corporation can't dodge all its taxes, they'll pass along the cost of what they can't dodge onto consumers. Those costs also include salaries and health care. By that measure, it's the consumers, including poor ones, who contribute more than the producers.
Producers provide a method for moving the money around, while taking a cut for themselves. An okay system with small businesses, where the producer is also the labourer, and they aren't hoarding vast amounts. A terrible system the more that is skimmed off the top, and not recirculated back into the economy. Might as well be a lord, living off the labour of his peasants, and hoarding vast amounts gold in the process.
So, it's because the system is looked at backwards, that people at the top are praised. You can not get the capitalism ball rolling without the capital in the hands of consumers. They are the ones providing.
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@roberttelford745 The progressives who backed Bernie and M4A during the last primaries, instead of Tulsi and a public option. The progressives who helped add a few more M4A yes votes to congress, which gets you closer to being able to pass the bill. The progressives who were just trying help add another M4A yes vote to congress, in Nina Turner, who Dore abandoned.
The progressives who did vote against the stand alone rearming Israel bill, and introduced bills to put conditions on aid to Israel. You Dore knob dimwits wanted them to vote against the entire foreign aid budget, that included aid to Palestinians, as well as non military aid around the world?
And what is it with your stupid obsession with Syria? There have been hundreds of accounts of Syrian chemical weapons use, hundreds of victim witnesses, dozens of healthcare worker witnesses, multiple NGO witnesses, independent investigations, legal human rights groups investigating on behalf of victims, on top of the numerous UN investigations that had zero dissenting opinions, since 2013, plus tons of other human rights violations. Two dissenting opinions on a single investigation doesn't even debunk that investigation, let alone all the others. The investigation you dimwits keep blathering about didn't even start until after the US, and others, were already bombing Syria, and the final report didn't come out until almost a year later, plus it didn't even assign blame as per Russian security council demands. It wasn't used as grounds for the bombing, ffs.
You're being played by a grifter, Dore knob.
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@DesignerDave Dore has a video where he makes out like covid deaths are "WILDLY inflated". In it, he starts with total population hospitalization rates (vaccinated 0.01%, unvaccinated 0.89%), taken from a Gallup article. The proper "death rate", to compare to a total population hospitalization rate, would be the covid crude mortality rate (currently about 0.26%). That number is easy to find, and it's even easy to do the math yourself (take total population, total covid deaths, and work out the percentage). There's nothing incompatible with a 0.9% total population hospitalization rate and a 0.26% total population "death rate".
Instead, Jimmy claims he can't find a current "death rate", or even one within the past year and a half ... and is apparently also too stupid to figure out any rates himself ... so uses a year and a half old "death rate", that is clearly a case fatality rate (3.4%), based on deaths per confirmed case (the hospitalizations rates weren't per confirmed case). Then he dishonestly compares those two rates, that are based on completely different math, to make out like covid deaths are being "WILDLY inflated" ... you know, because 3.4% is so much higher than 0.9%.
Many anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers types have long argued that covid isn't any worse than a cold or flu, making it unnecessary to take precautions, masks or vaccines. Jimmy's dishonest video panders to that anti-mask/anti-vax bullshit.
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@dirkdiggler7277 Biden didn't shut down any functioning pipelines, so didn't reduce delivery. OPEC prices have been historically cheaper. They kept oil prices pretty steady in the $15-30 a barrel range, for years. It was American oil companies that wanted prices higher, because oil production in N America costs more. Bush broke having lower, and fairly steady, gas prices. Gas prices dropped during the height of the pandemic, and are now back up to pre pandemic levels. They were lower because so much was shut down ... so lower no thanks to Trump, who argued against shutdowns, and higher thanks to all the states opening up.
Trump could have avoided having as many shutdowns by not having a completely incompetent covid response. He could also have had better oversight for businesses that took covid money to keep paying employees, but instead took covid money and fired employees. Countries with excellent to mediocre covid responses also weren't as negatively impacted economically.
Trump was a xenophobe for only stopping foreigners coming from China. He let a ton of Americans return from China, and keep traveling to and from China, as if Americans were immune.
The first vaccine out of the gate had nothing to do with Trump's "operation warp speed". Vaccines in other countries, that had nothing to do with ows, also came out at similar times to ones that did. There's no evidence that Trump did anything that actually sped up the vaccine rollout.
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Bryzz Lull Ummm, you should read a history book, or two. There was no American founding in the 16th century. Jamestown wasn't even settled until 1607, the beginning of the 17th century. Plymouth was settled in 1620. Then came waves of Puritans, who basically created a theocracy. They enslaved or killed natives that didn't convert. They banished, persecuted, or killed other Christians who didn't conform, including Quakers. They banished, persecuted, or killed non-Christians. They killed people for "witchcraft". They forced church attendance. They forced a dress code. They outlawed PDAs. Etc. There was no liberty, at all.
By the time the later 18th century rolled around, when the 1775 revolution occurred, British parliamentarians had already fought three civil wars against royalists, and chopped off a king's head, over a hundred years earlier. They had also already enacted a number of bills outlining subject rights (petition of right, habeas corpus act, and bill of rights), during that time, as well. What American revolutionaries originally wanted was the same rights and freedoms as those in the motherland, where those things had already existed for over a century. British common law was so much better than colonial laws at protecting individual rights, slavery couldn't survive it. When Americans created their own constitution and bill of rights, they used the British one as a model. But, their rights didn't protect everyone's liberty, and they still conserved chattel slavery, and only managed to get rid of it by fighting a bloody civil war against those willing to kill and die to conserve it forever, decades after the British Empire had abolished it in all the other colonies it still owned, and everyone said okay, without a fight.
Those millions of freed American slaves, and their descendants, were still stripped of rights, discriminated against, persecuted, and even killed, for another hundred years, before the US came up with a civil rights act, after a great struggle against those trying to conserve those lack of rights, that finally protected everyone. Americans are actually a slow bunch, when it comes to freedoms, compared to many other countries, due to so many of them trying to conserve the exact opposite of liberty. They are not at the forefront, at all.
America "created" so much, for so many, because it had a ton of open land (well, once the natives were cleared out), and people were given free land ... government handouts. This also happened in Canada and Australia, both of which rank better than the US on the freedom index, on the happiness index, on quality of life, on healthcare, on education, etc., etc.
Conservatives do not believe in smaller government. They love a big military and expanded policing, both of which are expanding government. Conservatives do not believe in a free market, and work towards helping monopolies, all the time, as well as support corporate welfare.
So, all you basically said was ... conservatives believe in pure bullshit and propaganda.
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He proved he was objectively delusional to think a Trump presidency would be better for progressives ... that it would lead to a progressive wave which would "for sure" take the house and senate in 2018, and the presidency in 2020 ... that Republicans would join with the left to obstruct a Trump agenda ... that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan. He proved he was operating outside of reality when he claimed Stein, who was only on the ballot in like 10 states, had a shot.
AOC just got done campaigning for Bernie and backed 20 other progressives, helping to remove a few more corporate Dems and add a few more M4A yes votes to congress. To make out like that's a worse ally than ancap Boogaloos is actually insane. Getting a guaranteed to fail vote on M4A was supposedly supposed to be useful in pressuring or replacing those opposed. Progressives get the $15 to stay in for a round of voting, and suddenly that's not useful in going after those opposed, but instead useful in continuing to shit on progressives.
There's gaslighting, and then there's actually being delusional. Sam was right on the mark, predicting the reality of multiple scotus seats being filled. So, obviously Jimmy was gaslighting. Jimmy has been proven to be delusional, and is therefore actually delusional.
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@Anxh007 Yeah, that's a load of crap. Turkey is the last remnant of the Ottoman Empire, not Saudi. Women there are fighting to keep abortion rights, like in the US, and homosexuality was never illegal, because they carried over Ottoman laws, which had already decriminalized it. Jews had lived in relative peace in Muslim nations, for 1300 years, been given refuge when Christian nations offered conversion, death, or exile. Plenty of accounts of Christian crusaders being the most bigoted, ruthless, and fanatic, during the Crusades. Etc.
Most of the current Muslim nations were created by the Christian west. Carving up the Ottoman Empire was as if nations conquered the US, with the help of far right Christian militia groups, and then handed those religious nuts some of the states to rule over, like theocracies, after.
And then, if any more moderate leftist Muslims rose up, those same Christian nations helped overthrow them, with coups, or again backing religious extremists. So, yeah, the West wanting to keep the current socio-economic status, in those countries, has been tied to more extremism. Just like how they supported fascists, in Central/South America, to try and keep the status quo, keep people down, and keep the money flowing in the direction they wanted.
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@A_Derpy_NINJA Do you even know what a "grift" is? Sure, he says stuff, but the whole point is that he's selling himself as something he's not.
In 2016, Dore promoted Trump (platform: kick 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion) as the better option than Clinton (platform: add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion). He also promoted the idea that Stein had a shot. If he convinced even a single swing state voter not to bother going out to vote against Trump, or to vote Stein, then he helped Trump win.
For the 2020 primaries, he promoted Tulsi (public option) over Bernie (M4A). If he convinced even a single person not to vote Bernie, then he helped Bernie lose. Then, he spent the general running a constant attack ad campaign against Trump's only remaining viable opponent, again trying to help Trump win.
A disagreement over a performance art vote was enough for him to portray other progressives as enemies, and then he turns around and promotes allying with far right nutty ancap Boogaloos, that want a civil war. That's the kind of idiot move that lands you on the wrong side of a Night of the Long Knives.
He goes on Tucker mainly to agree with him.
He abandoned Nina Turner ... abandoned adding another M4A advocate to congress.
He, again, is promoting third party fantasies, to draw off progressive votes, and hand power to Republicans, just as the broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems.
He slanders progressives that have done more for M4A in a few years than he has in his entire lifetime, to try and get people to lose confidence in them.
He, at least, benefits the right more than the left.
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@velvet1865 The Hindutva founder wasn't even religious. He redefined what it meant to be "Hindu". His definition did not include Muslims, Christians, or Jews.
"As World War II become imminent, Savarkar had initially advocated a policy of neutralism centered on India's geostrategic equations but his rhetoric grew coarser with time and he expressed consistent support for Hitler's policy about Jews.[107][108] In a speech on 14 October, it was suggested that Hitler's ways be adopted for dealing with Indian Muslims.[107] On 11 December, he characterized the Jews as a communal force.[107] Next March, Savarkar would welcome Germany's revival of Aryan culture, their glorification of Swastika, and the "crusade" against Aryan enemies — it was hoped that German victory would finally invigorate the Hindus of India.[107]
On 5 August 1939, Savarkar highlighted how a common strand of "thought, religion, language, and culture" was essential to nationality thus preventing the Germans and Jews from being considerable as one nation.[107] By the year end, he was directly equating the Muslims of India with German Jews — in the words of Chetan Bhatt, both were suspected of harboring extra-national loyalties and became illegitimate presences in an organic nation.[107][108][109] These speeches circulated in German newspapers with Nazi Germany even allotting a point-of-contact person for engaging with Savarkar, who was making sincere efforts to forge a working relationship with the Nazis. Eventually, Savarkar would be gifted with a copy of Mein Kampf.[107]"
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George Orwell was an anarchist/socialist, who went to Spain in hopes to fight fascists. Right wing fascists were the leaders, and media, in his book. He wrote about the kind of leaders, and media, who might, for example, make morons believe there has been an effective pandemic response, when the numbers clearly indicate the exact opposite. Or, make morons believe that propping up corporations is good for the little guy, that money will trickle down. Etc.
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@t-swizzle8102 A "ruckus" is a subjective term. It means different things to different people. She has her own idea of what a "ruckus" is. She didn't run on Jimmy's idea of what a "ruckus" is. That's him strawmanning. She was on the ground, promoting M4A, while campaigning for Nina Turner, against the heavily backed DNC candidate. In the last election, she used her platform and PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A progressives, and helped add a few more M4A yes votes to congress.
She also didn't run on getting a floor vote on M4A. She mentioned in an interview, that they couldn't get a floor vote on M4A, and I doubt she was thinking along the lines of paralyzing the house, something that hadn't happened in 100 years. She most definitely never ran on paralyzing, or threatening to paralyze, the house. Why would she want to start an all out intra party war, over a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote? The broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. Then what happens, if you've started an all out war? You'll never have a progressive speaker, until progressives become the majority of the house, instead of just the majority of the party.
Shouldn't you Dore knobs be migrating over to right wing Rumble, where Glenn and Dore signed on to get them some Peter Thiel CIA money? You're all just right wingers, trying to tank progressives.
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@dumpsternimrod9927 BJG spewed some bullshit. It is actually true that Jimmy's "plan" would have handed the speakership to McCarthy. Without anyone else amending his plan, what he kept saying was for 15 progressives to simply "withhold their votes for", or "not vote for", Pelosi. That implies abstaining. He never said they should cast protest votes for someone else. For every 2 empty seats, absentees, or abstentions, the threshold needed to win drops by 1. There were already 2 empty seats. 2 empty seats + 15 abstentions = -8 to the threshold, lowering it to 210. If every Dem voted Pelosi, she'd get 207. If every Republican voted McCarthy, he'd get 211, and win.
The very fact that Pelosi just won with less than 218 is proof Jimmy saying it needed to be 218, is false. The very fact that Boehner won with less than 218 is proof Jimmy's 218 claims were false.The very fact that you can have a voting quarum with only 218 members present, and only need to win a majority of voting members present is evidence you don't need anywhere close to 218, to win.
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@aarondickson9573 No, it doesn't, if the US government itself doesn't make any trade deals with them. There's a difference between the US government not trading with Cuba, and the US government not allowing US companies, or other countries or foreign companies, to trade with Cuba.
Yeah, it's not the "dictatorship" part they have a problem with. They'll even overthrow democratically elected politicians, who aren't communists, for simply trying to nationalize a single resource. And, they'll support and prop up the likes of Saudi, or Batista.
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@Jash Shah If they're religious, point out that means they're hypocrites for worshipping a "baby killer". Studies have now shown that the majority of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Most women just don't know they're pregnant before it happens. Meaning, their "god" is aborting the majority of pregnancies ... killing the majority of "babies".
You can also point out that tons of fertilized eggs, "babies", aren't used (often destroyed, buried, or used for science), or don't take and die, in the IVF industry, and ask if they're also opposed to IVF. If they aren't also anti-IVF, then they're hypocrites.
You can try a trolley experiment, and ask them: If there's a newborn baby on one track, a petri dish of 10 fertilized eggs on the other, and the trolley is heading for the petri dish, would they pull the lever to make the trolley run over the newborn or let it run over the petri dish? If they'd let it run over the petri dish, then they don't really consider it to be full of 10 "babies". If they make it run over the newborn, tell them how disgusting that choice is, with baby guts and brains splattered everywhere, and then tell them the petri dish was on its way for IVF disposal anyway.
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By them and their businesses not paying their share.
Bezos is a billionaire douchebag who only claims $80k in income, while making billions a year. These billionaires live on loans or lines of credit, which don't count as taxable income, taken out against their stock values, to avoid paying for the infrastructure that helped make them rich, to avoid paying for the military that protects shipping lanes and corporate interests abroad, and to avoid helping pay for healthcare and social security for the elderly. Musk is a billionaire douchebag who has a 50k salary, that he hasn't even taken. Zuckerberg is a billionaire douchebag who gets paid $1. The few times they do sell off some stock is generally tied to a stock option purchase, where they can sell off current stock at full price, pay the taxes on that, and then buy more stocks at a fraction of the value, that are then worth full value, making money out of the whole deal. Then, they can use that year of paying taxes to get tax credits against years they don't. They're leeches.
If Amazon transports a million items over US roads and highways to a million customers, Amazon has benefited from those roads and highways a million times more than each of those customers. If Apple ships a million phones from its sweat shops in China to a million US customers, they have benefited a million times more from the military than each of those customers. Etc.
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@edwardrosser938 Oh geez, missed this nonsense "fascism" comment. Tons of people warred against fascism to out an end to, and silence fascism. Denazification tried to silence fascism. To strip down the definition of "fascism", to simply mean silencing a political opponent, turns everyone who fought against fascism, fascists. It's a ridiculous use of the word.
Plenty of businesses require shirts and shoes, others require suits and ties. Governments pretty much everywhere require you to, at least, cover your junk. Are they all "fascists
There have been vaccine mandates for over a century. There are dozens of vaccine mandates for public school kids and immigrants. If that's fascism, then pretty much every developed country is already "fascist".
You should, seriously, read up on what fascism actually is. It's a totality of characteristics, not a single characteristic.
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@edwardrosser938 Now you're going full blown stupid. Cancer and heart disease aren't contagious. Something that is a leading cause of those things though, smoking, is treated much the same. Countries have extra healthcare taxes on cigarettes. Insurance companies charge more for smokers. Pretty much all public places have banned smoking. Want to smoke? Step outside. Don't want to wear a mask, or be vaccinated? Step outside.
Multiple places are also trying junk food taxes, to discourage, and help pay for, things that lead to obesity and diabetes.
A 1% covid infection fatality rate is 2x the polio paralysis rate, and 20x the polio infection fatality rate. Plus, it is far more contagious than polio. I assume you want to ditch polio vaccine mandates.
There are about 6m reported automobile accidents, per year, in the US. There are also an estimated 10m unreported accidents. There are about 40k deaths. Covid's 1% death rate is 4x that of automobile accidents. Plus, again, far more frequent. I assume you want to ditch licensing mandates, insurance mandates, speeding laws, seatbelt laws, all signs and lights, etc., because it's far less deadly than covid.
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@patrickriarchy1976 See. Yang Gangers reply about something completely different than what I'm talking about. You're so clueless about the VAT, you addressed a completely different problem with the VAT, pulled out of a Yang Gang copy and paste playbook. Bezos could pay $100m on a brand new $1b yacht, every single year, and he still could have made billions extra a year, with Yang's VAT/UBI combo. Mass amounts of money constantly funneling to the very top, where it's hoarded, is unsustainable. It's already why things are failing.
Progressive taxes are definitely better, if done properly. Loopholes should be closed. The way Yang explains how a tax/ubi combo should work, is correct. It should be corporations paying for the UBI, like in Alaska, which he repeatedly, and dishonestly, compared his plan to. The problem is he dishonestly, or moronically, picked a tax that doesn't do what he says. If you want a $4t UBI, it just so happens that the top US corporations are hoarding about $4t. That's what should be taxed to pay for it.
In a future, where you predict ever increasing unemployment, as robots take over, you can't depend on a tax paid by increasingly unemployed consumers. The corporations need to pay for it.
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@eddieisfiction Rofl. Ironic. Dore has just spent weeks bashing other progressives as "fakes", "frauds", "shills", "sellouts", etc. He made not just being pro-M4A a purity test, but his FTV tactic and use of slander as a purity test, writing off any progressives who disagreed, even if they only disagreed on the slander use. Then he turns around and welcomes far right Libertarian/ancap Boogs as allies, simply because they agree on a few anti-authoritarian issues, even though they have completely opposite economic goals, including M4A. He's a hypocritical moron.
You know who is the only one who can benefit, when you claim Trump is the better option than Clinton? Trump. You know who is the only one who can benefit from running an attack ad campaign against Trump's only viable opponent, Biden? Trump. You know who can only benefit from possibly peeling off progressive voters from Dem progressives? Corporate Dems and Republicans.
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@Addamo A performance art vote isn't itself M4A, Dore knob. If you already know you need to convert or replace 100+ people in the house alone, trying to ferret out a few more fakers, who can still vote for it knowing it has zero chance of passing, is a waste of everyone's time.
The party's speaker candidate is chosen by simple majority in the party caucus. Even the broader progressive caucus doesn't have enough votes to block Pelosi being the party's speaker candidate. The corporate Dems don't have to pick someone new, if you paralyze the house. They can keep picking her over and over and over, if they want. So, how long do you paralyze the house for, during a pandemic ... no new covid relief, no new unemployment extension, no new vaccine funding, etc.?
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Nice strawman. Nobody is saying private insurance will be eradicated overnight. Also, nobody is saying private insurers can't still exist to cover extras, like chiropractors, massages, acupuncture, etc. They just won't be able to sell people what they can already get through M4A. The "public option" route isn't simply letting private insurers exist, or weeding them out slowly. The "public option" route makes paying into public healthcare optional, and has public insurance compete with private insurance, just hoping everyone will switch to public. It's not Medicare for all. It's Medicare for all who opt in. And, having everyone pay in with equal premiums, even if they are lower priced than private, is regressive compared to it being paid for with a progressive tax.
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@zombiesoul-eater741 The only one doing citizenship, by DNA test, is Israel. If you have Jewish DNA, a couple generations back, then you can come, from anywhere in the world, help colonize more land, and have more rights than the native population.
I think it should all be turned into one Israel-Palestine. So weird how the West Bank, still being colonized and ethnically cleansed, and the Gaza ghetto, aren't as peacefully inclined. Ever read contemporary accounts of the Kitos War?
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@GeteMachine It has literally been Likud's platform, since it was formed, in the 70s, from earlier parties, but nobody bats an eye. "Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has promised to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories, for decades. It even further claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is also an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.
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@adaminfinity1733 Piss off.
"Of Americans surveyed from Sept. 13-22, 72% of adults 18 and older had been vaccinated, including 71% of white Americans, 70% of Black Americans, and 73% of Hispanics. Contrast these converging figures with disparities based on politics: 90% of Democrats had been vaccinated, compared with 68% of Independents and just 58% of Republicans.
A Gallup survey released on Sept. 29 confirmed the KFF findings. As of mid-September, 75% of adult Americans have been vaccinated, including 73% of non-Hispanic white adults and 78% of non-whites. Along party lines, however, the breakdown was 92% of Democrats, 68% of Independents, and 56% of Republicans."
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This is a midterm fight, and Dems will have a problem trying to hang on in those purple districts. Any ounce of leverage Hinkle believes AOC to have, entirely rests on Dems maintaining a majority. Without that, Republicans will just do whatever they want, without needing any corporate Dem or progressive votes. She already tried backing progressives in some of those districts, and they got creamed, but the more conservative Dem, who beat them, managed to also beat the Republican in the general. For the midterm, she should be backing new progressives in blue districts, that have an incumbent corporate Dem, where there's no worry in the general, and doing whatever to help everyone else hang on to their seats. You may not like that she broke some supposed promise, but it's smart.
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@mimked Yeah, I'm not reading all that, after such a rubbish start. Many countries didn't treat patients the way he wants. Tens of millions of doctors and nurses, worldwide, didn't treat patients the way he wants. The vast majority of doctors and nurses, worldwide, advocate being vaccinated. Trying to make out like what he's saying would only apply to the US, is bullshit.
Even if it did only apply to the US, that's still millions of doctors and nurses. Making out like they intentionally didn't treat people, so they would die, to boost demand for vaccines, is still psychotic.
He's a loon.
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In all its previous forms, it has always been Revisionist Zionsim's goal to colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories, and more. Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@Sean-gg4ns Intent matters, dumb dumb, not level of violence or success. They intended to stop the democratic process to keep an unelected ruler in power. That's authoritarianism, like when the Loyalists wanted to keep King George in power.
Protesting, and sometimes rioting, against funding the police, police brutality, and a lack of representation, is anti-authoritarianism, and more like what the Patriots did, before they outright went to war.
You loons have reality backwards.
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@investmotivation1014 Don't you know the definition of the word "grift"? Dore says he's for things like that, but the directions he proposes taking don't get you any closer to getting them, or even take you in the opposite direction.
How does sitting on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party, get you M4A in the next century? How does a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote get you any closer to getting M4A? When adding M4A yes votes to congress is the very thing that gets you closer to ever being able to pass it, how does slandering those like Justice Dems and AOC, who have added yes votes to congress, not mean you're outright fighting against M4A? When you publicly abandon Nina Turner ... abandon adding another M4A yes vote to congress ... and promote never voting for someone running as a Dem ever again, not mean you're outright fighting against M4A? How is literally peddling someone against the M4A candidate, not mean you're outright fighting against M4A? How is trashing government negotiated vaccine prices, for vaccines that are then given out for free (a tiny slice of what M4A would be), not mean you're fighting against M4A? How is misrepresenting and attacking the completely socialized UK healthcare system, not mean you're fighting against socialized healthcare? How is peddling more expensive, privately paid for, alternatives, not promoting the opposite of M4A? How is peddling Trump (platform: toss 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion), as the better option, not going outright backwards?
What has Jimmy proposed doing, since 2016, that actually gets you closer to getting M4A?
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@t-swizzle8102 How does sitting on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party, and letting corporate Dems and Republicans rule for decades to come, help poor and working class Americans, exactly?
And sitting on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party, is based on what ... some fantasy, that a third party will only produce perfectly perfect puritan progressives, rather than another Kyrsten Sinema, like the Green party produced?
When adding M4A yes votes to congress is the most important thing to do, because the only possible way to ever pass the bill is to get enough yes votes in congress, how does abandoning Nina Turner ... abandoning adding another M4A yes vote to congress ... help poor and working class Americans?
How does promoting Trump (platform: toss 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion) as the better option than Clinton (platform: add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion), help poor and working class Americans?
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@garyhamlin3299 Yeah, give me an example of a country that followed covid measures pretty good, and things still got as out of hand as the US. WHO advises at minimum testing should be in the range of 10-30 people per confirmed case. The UK, France, US, Spain, and Italy, were testing under 10 people for months of 2020, as things got out of hand. Canada, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Finland, got within that range fairly quickly. Australia, New Zealand, S Korea, Vietnam, got to testing over 50 people fairly quickly.
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@mellow_badger8585 Rofl. Tucker had pro Assange segments going back a year before Dore was on, you dimwitted Dore knob. He didn't move Tucker's position on anything.
Dore went on, agreed with Tucker that it was problematic that Dumpty had been banned from social media, and using the bullshit first amendment argument. There's no such thing as free speech on someone else's private property. A leftist should be pointing that out, and pointing out the way to get free speech rights is through public ownership. Someone whose not sucking on Tucker's far right white nationalist balls, might also point out that things like inciting insurrections and defamation aren't protected speech anyway. He played right along with the right wing framing of "cancel culture", not pointing out that conservative religious folks have been cancelling things and people for millennia, still do, and often even use the government to do it, not just public pressure.
Then, and this was right as the second impeachment was beginning, Jimmy threw Tucker and his audience the off topic bone that he too considered the first impeachment to be a sham. Then, he finally got to Assange, who Tucker didn't show any indication of disagreeing with Jimmy on. Right wingers love WikiLeaks. Assange isn't a right/left issue, in the least.
The issue isn't common ground, dingleberry. The issue is priorities. Right wing morons care more about bullshit, like CRT that isn't even taught in K-12, than they do about getting themselves healthcare. If they prioritized healthcare, they wouldn't be right wingers. An "extreme free market" Boogaloo psycho, that wants to start a civil war, isn't going to vote for the same people you are, just because you both agree an a handful of anti-authoritarian issues. They'll be shooting you, if you try and implement M4A, after you help them bring down the government.
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@bloui1033 You literally said "(which it IS unfair)", to someone else.
As long as she's qualified, what difference does it make? It would be nice, if the law were more objective, but isn't it a reality that scotus picks are already chosen based on political discrimination, irregardless if they're the most qualified candidate amongst every legal expert in the country? The fact that political points of view on certain topics is considered in the process of picking a scotus nominee, is evidence law isn't purely objective. Subjective opinions, subjective political or religious beliefs, matter, which would mean different life experiences, and different race and gender points of view, are also important. In that sense, yes, women are more qualified to give an opinion on women's issues. Your "analogies" aren't very analogous. People's subjective beliefs also factor into creating laws, would be a more analogous example. So, yes, you'd also want a more diverse group of people creating laws, as well.
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@gnubbiersh647 Harris argued it was already a given that, if you set a subjective goal, science can help you achieve that goal. Meaning, if you subjectively define "well being", and subjectively set that as your goal, then science can help you reach that goal. Or, for example, if you set reaching the moon as your subjective goal, then science can help you achieve that goal, and everything you do then objectively gets you closer to achieving that goal, or it doesn't. What people didn't believe was that science could itself set the goal, so that the goal was objective. By saying he wanted to prove that wrong, Sam had to show that the goal, "well being", is itself objective, to give us something beyond what he already acknowledged was a given.
He argued all concepts of morality are about "well being". If that is actually the case, that would mean they all have different concepts of "well being" (a Christian's, for example, would be measured not by how healthy and happy you are, but instead measured by how closely you are following God's will, so your soul can have ultimate happiness in the afterlife). Sam set aside their beliefs in an afterlife, or any other concepts, and began arguing as if there was only one concept of "well being" ... his ... and that it is only measured by his standards. He had basically defeated himself, at this point, and is exactly at what he said was a given, at the outset.
He also tried to support his concept, by arguing morality is only about sentient creatures, and that we don't value the "well being" of rocks. Problem there is ... we do. If we deem that a structure or sculpture, made of rocks, has historical value, we consider it immoral to harm or destroy it. Same with any rocks deemed to have artistic value. We also deem some environments to have value, including any rocks within, and provide them protection. We also deem many shiny rocks to have value, and some people will kill each other over them, considering that value to be worth more than another human being's life. He also made out like that also applies to lesser life forms, and yet some people's concept of morality includes all life forms. He didn't provide any real "objective" demarcation line. Are cows, pigs, and chickens, below the line? Most people's concepts of morality okay slaughtering them. Plenty of people think the world would be better off without humans. Plenty value certain animals over other human beings. Hedonists value simply fulfilling your desires. All these concepts of morals and values aren't samesies. Even ignoring that many concepts of "well being" include an afterlife, the various moral concepts aren't all using the exact same concept of "well being", that Sam puts forward, for this life.
He goes completely deranged, and argues that an objective fact can change. He gives as an example, the distance of the Earth to the Sun. The problem there is that he's leaving out that any measurement to the Sun would be made at an exact moment in time. It will forever be true that, at that exact moment in time, we were exactly that distance from the Sun. If something is truly an objective fact, it will always be true.
To support his "moral landscape" argument, he provides chess, as an "analogy". He claims it is a game of "perfect objectivity", where a move is objectively better or worse. No. Someone subjectively decided to create a game, subjectively decided on the board, the pieces, how those pieces would move, and how to win (back to what he said was already a given at the start). People have also subjectively come up with alternate rules. People have subjectively come up with alternate boards (3D Star Trek chess). Chess, and any game with rules, is more akin to laws, than morality. Once you've subjectively decided something is a rule/law, then you are objectively following the rule/law, or you aren't. Sometimes we decide laws are themselves immoral, and change them. Even when you're within the game, with the rules in place, nothing says it's wrong to maybe let your kid beat you once in a while. If that's your subjective goal, then what is "objectively" a better or worse move could become completely flipped, and there'd be nothing wrong with that, even though it would appear to be an "objectively" horrible move, by Sam's singular (and subjective) way to measure things.
He also tries using healthy vs unhealthy, as an analogy to moral vs immoral. The problem there is that healthy/unhealthy don't include oughts. Eating a Big Mac might be unhealthy, but there's nothing really saying it's wrong to do something unhealthy (unless maybe it forces something unhealthy on others, against their will). Technically, skydiving increases your odds of dying, or being injured. So? People do it for kicks. Being healthy, or unhealthy, depends totally on your own subjectivity. If you subjectively want to be healthy, only then you ought not do X. If you subjectively don't care about being healthy, then you ought to do X, if you want. This is nothing like morality. We don't say go ahead and randomly kill someone, if you want. We'll call it "immoral", but that no longer means it's behavior/actions you ought not do.
Sam paraded around like a peacock, making out like he was a genius, making out like Hume wasn't all that, and that he was the one to have finally filled, or dodged, the is/ought gap .... Nope. He is a complete and utter moron, who never got beyond what he said was a given, from the outset, and was just too stupid to see it. He had filled the gap with subjectivity, just like everyone before him.
He also showed his limited grasp on objectivity vs subjectivity, when fear mongering about AI. He didn't take the angle that people would be able to greatly misuse it (as is possible). No, he took the Terminator angle, that it would rise up against us! Except, it doesn't matter how "intelligent" a computer is, there's zero indication that one can set its own subjective goals. That's because they care about nothing. Any goals one has, has been programmed in. An AI would be following at least one human's goals. A super intelligent computer, knowing a lot of facts (objectivity), would still make none of its own decisions (subjectivity), because it just doesn't care about outcomes. Humans have to program in all the decision making. They might give it a little room to learn the most efficient route, between point A and point B, for example, but once it learns the most efficient route, that's the one it will stick with. It will never, in a billion years, decide to take the scenic route, all on its own, because it just doesn't care. It feels nothing, good or bad, when "seeing" things. Sam has been taking sci-fi way too seriously.
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@SacClass650 The problem with your comparison is that "socialism" (publicly owned and operated) is a broad category, opposing the broad category "capitalism" (privately owned and operated), that comes in non-authoritarian (anarcho, direct democracy), representative democracy, and authoritarian, flavours. Meanwhile, "fascism" is a narrow category. It is authoritarian capitalism. So, no, fascism doesn't have much in common, with about 2/3rds of the socialism spectrum, and is the complete opposite of the anarcho variety. Authoritarians having similarities is no revelation.
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@mfflscotty2095 Holy hell. How do they make their billions? By people buying stuff, right? That's people handing them their money, and having less money, and the billionaires gaining more money, right? And, if those billionaires don't pay their workers an even share of that, then the money is mostly going one direction, right? Again, you seem to be implying that you can hand your money to them, and more will just magically appear, from somewhere.
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The only "claim" that Zionism had to this specific land, was based on a fairy tale book. After living relatively peacefully in Muslim countries for 1300 years ... being given refuge when Christian nations offered conversion, death, or exile ... the Ottoman Empire even okaying the earliest form of Zionsim, which was more like immigration ... Zionist religious extremism, the switch to colonialism, changed everything. Jewish extremists believe in the OT/Tanakh, which is the worst book in the trilogy, by many miles.
India represents almost the entirety of the Hindu world. It ranks lower than Saudi, for the treatment of women. And, now there are Hindutva fascists, running the country, persecuting Sikhs, Muslims, and Christians.
Christian nuts, in Africa, actually campaigned against wearing protection, even telling people that condoms cause AIDS, as tens of millions of people died. Plus, there are plenty of other Christian extremists around. Europe and North America no longer represents the majority of the Christian world. The majority is represented by Central/South America, Africa, and Asia. The US likes to say "Mexican cartel", but there are some you could also describe as a "Christian cartel", that worship a saint of death, and chop off more body parts than ISIS did. Christian Brazil is also the deadliest place on the planet, to be gay. They also challenge Buddhist Thailand for the child sex tourism capital of the world.
Psycho Buddhist monks have also been doing very bad things.
Most suck pretty bad, if you actually take a hard look, and don't just focus on the one you've already predetermined is the worst.
Ancestral spirit worship doesn't seem too fanatic.
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@darrenallen8215 Lol, there are about as many vehicles owned, as guns. They have an alternate purpose, to travel from point A to point B. They are used an average of 2 hrs a day. The vast majority of the time, they simply do get safely from point A to point B. Do you think there is no point, to all the vehicle regulations (licensing, registration, insurance, speed limits, seatbelts, no driving zones, certain vehicles not allowed on the road, safety standards, etc.), because criminals will just ignore them anyway?
Guns have no alternative use, other than to shoot things. Relative to vehicles, guns are rarely used, but they still kill as many people. They are clearly the far more dangerous item, and yet they're far less regulated. Why is it, do you think, that states with less regulations tend to have higher firearm mortality, and homicide, rates? Why is it that other developed countries, with tougher gun laws, tend to have lower firearm mortality, and homicide, rates (and, in turn, cops that shoot citizens 3 to 100s of times lower rates, per capita)?
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@Whoyouwishyouwere A few cents? The big oil companies make most of their money on the oil side, ffs. They've jacked the price of a barrel by $20, since 2019. The US, and Canada for that matter, are both net oil exporters. Neither has to meet the global market price, if they don't want to, to supply inside the two countries. Whatever the f*ck Russia or Saudi is doing, doesn't affect supply, so shouldn't affect in country prices, but they act like it does anyway, and blame what's going on elsewhere in the world, for the price increase, as if it just magically makes their prices go up, and wasn't them intentionally raising their prices. They didn't need the extra $20 a barrel. They just did it ... to increase profits.
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@paulsmith7579 Again, he said hospitalization rates, not "covid rates", dumb dumb. He didn't question the covid rate, which means that doesn't change the death rate. If the hospitalization rate, alone, is overstated, then the death rate would be higher compared to the hospitalization rate, not lower, and make Jimmy's argument even more incorrect.
Btw, nothing you can say will ever change the fact that Dore used mismatched rates, couldn't properly use Google, and couldn't do grade school level math.
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AOC had donated to a number of progressives in conservative districts, in the last election. A bunch got creamed in the primaries, but a more conservative Dem did manage to win the district. The midterms are a totally different animal, and there will be a helluva fight to just try and hang on to their majority. Purple districts will be the hardest ones to try and hang on to. Dore knobs just don't care if Republicans get the majority, and don't care if progressives have even less power being in a minority party. Hell, they don't even care if progressives sit on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party, for the next century.
I've yet to run across a Dore knob that actually knows what was in the final version of the Capitol police bill, and what AOC's final vote was. All the first house vote actually did was send it to the senate, to have the shit amended out of it, just to be sent back to the house. AOC voted against it, when it came back. Her vote was irrelevant, because it had been amended enough to Republicans' liking to bring them onboard.
The $15 did get a vote. It even passed the house, and got a senate vote. There's an ever so precious list of no voters. Weren't Dore knobs making out like they were going to do big things, with a list of no voters on an important policy? How come all they've done with this one is bitch about those who got the $15 to stay in for a round of voting and voted for it?
The FTV "plan", out of Jimmy's mouth, before anyone else amended it, was for 15 progressives to simply "withhold their votes" or "not vote" for Pelosi. It's wording he used repeatedly. That wording implied abstaining, which would have given the speakership to McCarthy. Jimmy incorrectly thought it was impossible for McCarthy to win, because he thought you outright needed 218 votes to win.
Drone strikes have dropped to almost nothing. Shouldn't Dore knobs be praising Biden, for that? They are such all or nothing puritan dimwits.
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@GlassesAndCoffeeMugs The conversation hasn't ended. The DSA (you know, the socialist organization AOC is an actual member of, not just democratic socialist in name, and not simply endorsed by them) has been having M4A rallies. Jimmy could be reporting about those, encouraging people to get out to those, instead of attacking those who are his best shot in the House of being fakes and shills.
Jimmy could be letting everyone and anyone know about the latest CBO report, instead of arguing over a pointless vote. People are just arguing about a vote, and best procedures, not actually discussing the benefits of M4A, convincing others of the benefits, etc.
If anyone is a capitalist shill, it's Jimmy. He seems to be going the way of Dave Rubin, finding it's good money to claim to be a lefty, while constantly attacking the politicians that are the most left leaning.
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@secularsocialist Has Dore addressed why he took total population hospitalization rates and compared them to a year and a half old case fatality rate, to dishonestly portray covid deaths as "WILDLY inflated"?
Has Dore addressed why he'd take government negotiated vaccine prices, for vaccines given out for free (a tiny taste of what M4A would be like), and spin some "big pharma" conspiracy ... which both creates vaccine hesitancy and criticizes a universal healthcare measure ... all while he peddles unproven, more expensive, and privately paid for, alternatives?
Has he addressed why he, and Max, dishonestly misrepresented what was happening with the completely socialized UK healthcare system, regarding vaccines and kids ... which, again, causes both vaccine hesitancy and attacks a socialized healthcare system?
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@secularsocialist Oh, yeah, here ... let me spend 15 min telling you how bad the side effects of the vaccine can be, without telling you the same side effects are caused by covid, at much higher rates, and then pretend I've sent a pro-vaccine message.
Here, let me lie about effective alternatives, leading people to believe they don't need the vaccine, and then pretend I've sent a pro-vaccine message.
Here, let me lie about covid and children, making it seem like vaccines don't help them, and then pretend like I've sent a pro-vaccine message.
Etc.
F*cking bullshit.
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@secularsocialist What right winger, critiquing from the right, has been called a leftist?
How is lying about a more socialized healthcare system, critiquing from the left? How is constantly portraying a tiny taste of socialized healthcare, in a negative light, critiquing from the left? How is peddling privately paid for, more expensive, "healthcare" alternatives, critiquing from the left? How is peddling Trump as the better option than Clinton, critiquing from the left? How is peddling Tulsi over Bernie, critiquing from the left? How is peddling allying with "extreme free market" psycho Boogaloos, critiquing from the left? How is going on white nationalist television, just to largely agree with every right wing talking point, critiquing from the left? How is slandering progressives who have done more for M4A in a few years than he has in his entire lifetime, critiquing from the left? How is promoting sitting on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party, and letting Republicans rule for decades to come, critiquing from the left?
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@secularsocialist As a Dore knob, you should know that Dore himself argues to not just listen to people's words. A grifter will claim to be selling you one thing, but is actually selling you something completely different. Just pointing at things he claims to be for, isn't evidence of anything. What directions does he actually propose taking?
On Rogan's show, Dore not only dishonestly peddled Ivermectin as a proven effective remedy, he peddled the further dishonesty that it's a proven effective preventative. The average price of a bottle of 20 Ivermectin pills is $100. If you take 1 a month, as a preventative, that's worth 3+ shots a year, if you take 1 a week, that's worth like 15 shots a year, and it's paid for out of pocket instead of free from the government. He also seemed fine with Rogan's $2000+ out of pocket "kitchen sink", as an alternative to getting the vaccine. He, and Max, also lied about the completely socialized UK healthcare system, while pandering to anti-vaxxers, making it also anti-socialized healthcare pandering. His anti-vax schtick has also been anti-socialized healthcare, and pro handing "big pharma" even more money out of pocket.
Everyone at FOX is vaxxed. Being vaxxed doesn't mean you can't peddle anti-vax propaganda. He has been caught peddling misinformation, multiple times. If I spend hours telling people that skydiving is really really really dangerous, and then wrap the conversation up by saying you should try it. That wasn't a pro-skydiving conversation, dimwit.
You're lying. He has a video called "Hillary Presidency Worse For Progressives & America Than Trump". That's just the reverse wording of Trump is better than Clinton. He outright peddled Trump as the better option.
Tulsi was never to the left of Bernie on anything. He just didn't do his homework.
“In short, when it comes to the war against terrorists, I’m a hawk. When it comes to counterproductive wars of regime change, I’m a dove.” - Tulsi Gabbard, Hawaii Tribune-Herald, 2016
Pretty much every US intervention, since 9/11, has used the war on terror as justification.
You're the one lying. Dore's Boogaloo buddy clearly stated he was for an "extreme free market". Jimmy was fine with that, and promoted allying with that. Jimmy is the kind of "leftist" that winds up on the wrong side of a Night of the Long Knives.
I didn't criticize simply going on FOX, dimwit. Dore went on and agreed with Tucker's right wing framing of free speech and Trump being tossed off of social media. Dore, and Glenn, generally take the right wing framing. They don't point out that there's no such thing as free speech rights on someone else's private property. They don't point out that, if you want free speech, then public ownership is the way to get it. They don't point out that inciting an insurrection isn't even protected speech in public. Then, and this was right as the second impeachment was beginning, Dore threw in the off topic bone that he considered the first impeachment bogus, to help cast a shadow on the second impeachment. Then, he finally got to Assange, but plenty of right wingers like WikiLeaks, and Tucker has some pro Assange videos going back to a year before Dore was even on. Even that wasn't even a left wing issue.
"Pressuring" and slandering are two different things. Dore slanders those who have been helping to add M4A yes votes to congress. Getting enough yes votes in congress is the only possible way to ever pass the bill. Pelosi has already reintroduced M4A again, this session (she also did last session), and it's sitting in committees again. Dore should be pressuring those currently sitting on the bill, instead of those who have co-signed it, and have been increasing the congressional vote count.
Pretty much every direction Dore peddles benefits corporate Dems, or Republicans. At best, a third party gets you less than 400k voters and you're sitting in an irrelevant party. At worst, you convince enough progressives to split off their votes, to hand seats back to corporate Dems, or Republicans. All for some fantasy, that your perfectly perfect puritan progressive party won't produce another Kyrsten Sinema.
You're bending so far backwards, to defend a grifter, that your head is up your ass.
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Speaking of grifters ... Jimmy has a new video out, downplaying the risks of covid, called "Are COVID death rates WILDLY inflated?". I could only make it through a few minutes of his stupidity, or dishonesty ...
It's very clear that the 3.4% "death rate" is the case fatality rate ... deaths per confirmed case. This number is always changing, and can be found all over the place. Only someone who is completely inept, wouldn't be able to find the current case fatality rate. But, somehow Jimmy couldn't. Only someone who failed grade school math couldn't figure it out themselves. 750k deaths is 1.5% of 50m confirmed cases. But, somehow Jimmy couldn't.
He apparently didn't actually read the Gallup article, he's referencing, or skipped the parts he didn't like. The hospitalization rates he's citing are based on the total vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, not just those who contract covid. This isn't comparable to the case fatality rate. It's based on totally different math. The comparable "death rate" would be the population mortality rate. 750k deaths is 0.23% of 330m total population.
So, now he's making out like covid is a lot less harmful than doctors and scientists, worldwide, have stated, and there's some giant worldwide conspiracy to inflate numbers.
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@MyName-cw4yr Peterson had already been living under that law, at the provincial level, for years. Other provinces also had similar laws, for years. And yet, he had zero examples to support his slippery slope claims, which were pure bullshit. Canada has hate speech laws, and yet he wasn't attacking the hate speech laws, hadn't had a history of attacking Canada's hate speech laws, in general. He was only attacking including protection for transgender people. He lied that someone could get thrown in jail for mistakenly saying the wrong pronoun. The bill is tied to the hate speech laws, so whatever is said would need to include threats, or said repeatedly to rise to the level of harassment, to violate the law.
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@davidhughes4089 A big part of covid numbers has to do with the initial outbreak. Unfortunately, Boris didn't take things seriously enough, right out of the gate. There's a strong correlation between trace testing rates (tests per confirmed case) and covid spread. The UK's testing rate was even lower than the US' pathetic rate, early on. Both countries were testing 5 or less people per confirmed case, for months. Italy, Spain, and France, weren't much better, testing under 10 people per confirmed case. All of them had a pretty bad 2020. Once the cats were out of the bag, it was hard to try and gain control, and get ahead of the virus.
Canada and Germany got up to 15+ fairly quickly. Denmark, Norway, and Finland, got up to 20+. They all had medium results. Canada's covid deaths per million rate, for example, would translate into 54k total UK covid deaths, instead of 150k, and would translate into about 250k total US covid deaths, instead of 850k.
Countries like S Korea, Vietnam, Australia, and New Zealand, got their testing rates up to over 50 people per confirmed case, early on. They all had excellent results. Australia's deaths per million rate would translate into about 6k total UK covid deaths, and about 36k total US covid deaths.
You just can't get ahead of the virus spread, testing only 5 people per confirmed case. If the infected person has been in the vicinity of 50 people, before testing positive, and you only test 5 of those people, then you only have a 10% chance of finding who they infected. If you aren't actively looking for asymptomatic carriers, then they'll just keep spreading it wildly.
The UK is now up to almost 29, ahead of Canada at 22. Germany has dropped to 13. Australia is up to 71. New Zealand and others are testing in the hundreds per confirmed case.
The US is up to 13, but things are so politically divided, you know that's going to be a lot higher with some people and a lot lower with others, who are just letting it spread now, and who are even legislating to oppose attempts to contain the virus anymore.
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@CMfuell Rofl! For every 2 empty seats, absentees, or abstentions, the threshold needed to win is lowered by 1, you dimwitted Dore knob. At the time, there were 2 empty seats. 2 empty seats, plus 15 abstentions, lowers the threshold needed to win by 8, down to 210. If every other Dem voted Pelosi, she'd get 207. If every Republican voted McCarthy, he'd get 211. He'd win the speakership.
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@robinsss How the f*ck is being allowed to buy, sell, and own, another human being, not also an economic issue, especially so you can make a bigger profit rather than hire people and pay wages? How is having a monopoly on land also not an economic issue? How is money funneling to the very top, and leaving millions destitute, also not an economic issue? Etc.
What, about capitalism, says that I, as a landlord, can't charge tenants whatever I want, can't set whatever rules I want for living on my property, and can't hire my own security to enforce those rules and collect those fees?
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Zoom Boom You mean strategies like using that massive social media platform of hers, and her PAC, to help take out the chair of the foreign affairs committee, by backing Jamaal Bowman, and helping to add other pro-M4A progressives to congress, as well? Or using that platform to spotlight striking union workers? Or using it to raise money for Texans, putting their Republican representatives to shame?
Only a complete moron, like Dore, would both think he's accomplishing things, think he's fighting, using his relatively small social media platform, while making out like using a much larger social media platform doesn't accomplish anything, and doesn't amount to fighting for anything.
Bernie, AOC, and other progressives, have used their platforms to spread progressive ideas, have used them to make ideas like M4A and GND part of mainstream discussion, have used them to increase public support for said ideas ... oh no, make them stop!
On top of that platform, that you're criticizing, being a valuable tool for the progressive cause, she is accomplishing more than any third party, just by having a seat in congress, that allows her to put forward bills, cast votes on bills, join committees, etc. The most popular third party hasn't even won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence.
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@HavokBWR What was it you considered "prejudice" to mean? You think trying to achieve a better balance is driven purely by a hate, rather than a desire for equal rights, equal opportunities, equal treatment, equal pay, or whatnot? That doesn't sound quite right. Was the US founded on hatred, because they didn't want to pay taxes without equal representation?
Ugh. The division was then property owners vs non property owners, and non property owners were denied the right to vote. It was classist. Denying black Americans rights was racist. Denying women rights was sexist. Denying non Christians rights was bigoted (indirectly racist, since it applied mainly to blacks and natives, at the time).
Rofl. Conscription? That's your big beef? Have you asked women if they support conscription? I think you're just pulling a load out of your ass, there. So, should undocumented males be given the right to vote, since they can be conscripted?
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@whyamimrpink78 Rofl. Trump wasn't a threat to the elites. He gave giant corporations, and the super rich, all kinds of handouts. He had the same old Republicans in his administration. The same old Republicans in congress supported him.
How the hell are local election officials elites relative Trump (the head of the federal government ... the head of the elites)? How are judges elites relative to Trump? Even ones he appointed (was the supposed threat to elites packing the courts with elites?) ruled against his garbage lawsuits.
How the hell are scientists, doctors, and nurses, "elites"? Yes, Trump did want people to ignore what the vast majority of scientists, doctors, and nurses, across the world, were saying, if they contradicted him. No, he was not right about anything important. Trusting a broad consensus of scientists, doctors, and nurses, across the world, is not bowing to the elites, dumb dumb. Looking for the 1 in 1000 specialists, peddling misinformation for corporations, is trusting the elites. Trump, literally, went backwards on the environment, against a ton of science, all for giant corporations.
Again, he fought against state and local governments, which you argue better represent the people. Again, he fought against the voice of the people, tried to overthrow the democratic process, and rule as an unelected dictator. But, hey, you keep pretending you aren't the one attached to the elites by a cord. Remember that your Big Brother speaks in doublespeak.
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What are you talking about? They've always criticized Bibi. And, the problem is bigger than just Bibi.
Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@loverainthunder The dynamics of power is that, on bills, there are zero extra votes to be gained to the left of progressives. That makes it absolutely impossible to pass bills without the likes of Manchin. On the flip side, there is the entire Republican party to the right of Manchin, to try and draw extra votes from. If enough Republicans can be brought onboard a bill, then you can pass it without needing progressive votes. A standoff between the left end and right end, of the party, is far more likely to move a bill even further right, rather than left.
With regard to the speakership vote, the house hasn't been paralyzed over a speakership vote in about a century. It's not some business as usual tactic. Starting an all out intra party war could have consequences. The broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. At that point, they could pick the party speaker candidate, at the Dem caucus. If there's an all out war, with corporate Dems, then they'll likely do the same thing right back at you, and you'll need them, and their votes, more than they need you, and your votes, to be able to pass anything.
Okay, you've started a war, for what, exactly? A purely performance art vote. You get a new list of names of congress members that won't sign onto the bill every new session of congress. You have a list of names of politicians who wouldn't sign on, during a pandemic, for 2020. You have a list of names of congress members who haven't signed on, during a pandemic, for 2021. Surely, Dore, and his knobs, are pestering and pressuring every single one of the members of congress who haven't signed on, and organizing protests against them ... wait, what, Dore, and his knobs just keep harrassing and slandering M4A's most ardent congressional supporters? Pathetic.
Pelosi actually introduced the M4A bill last session, where it died in committees. She has also already reintroduced the bill, this session, and it's sitting in committees. So, on top of the first two lists, you also have a list of committee members, who let the bill die, during a pandemic, and a list of committee members, who are currently sitting on the bill, during a pandemic. This ... this must be the group of people Dore, and his knobs, are pestering and pressuring, and organizing protests against, to get them to take up the bill ... wait, what, Dore, and his knobs just keep harrassing and slandering M4A's most ardent congressional supporters? Pathetic.
Dore is a grifter. What he actually promotes is having progressives sit on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party, handing the Dem party totally back to corporate Dems, and letting Republicans rule for decades to come.
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@loverainthunder People were pretty freaking energized to get rid of Trump. People like Dore promoted the idea of letting Trump win ... that he was a better option for progressives than Clinton. He had a fantasy that it would result in a massive progressive backlash, that would "for sure" lead to progressives taking the house (wrong) and senate (wrong), in 2018, and the presidency (wrong), in 2020. He claimed that even Republicans would join the left to vote against a Trump agenda (wrong), instead of following him into outright fascism (wrong). He claimed that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong).
Letting Trump win was stupid. If those are the only two viable options, still get your asses out and vote the conservative Dem as a vote for that being the worst you want the country to go, instead of letting things get even worse under Republicans. Letting Trump win actually sent voters screaming into Biden's "more electable" arms. It hurt the progressive movement. Bernie started a movement immediately after an Obama presidency. The very premise of the argument, that you need to go backwards to go forwards is idiotic, and has no basis in reality. Going backwards, with Republicans, has shifted the country further and further right. If progressives actually want to move forward, then they should energetically vote to not go backwards, even if the primary doesn't go our way.
Progressive candidates, themselves, are highly reliant on "vote blue". If they win the primary, the vast majority of Dems who voted against them in those primaries, will turn around and vote for them in the general. Any hope of Bernie becoming president, rested entirely on all Dems voting for him, in the general. We do need a blue team, that may not be entirely comprised of perfectly perfect puritan progressives, for things to go the progressives' way.
I get being jaded, and disappointed, but stop the cycle of madness, and keep f*cking Republicans out of power, forever. They've gone completely bat shit crazy fascist, ffs. Trying to completely overthrow, and end, the democratic process, is the last box that needed checking, to move them from being undemocratic to anti-democratic. Worry about getting even more of them out of office, worry about getting more conservative Dems out of office, before flipping out on, abandoning, and wanting to replace, progressives who have done more for M4A in a few years than Dore has in his entire lifetime.
You don't think AOC used what little leverage she had effectively, so be it. But the reality is still that she helped add a few more M4A advocates to congress, in just 2 years. That's more than any third party has done in 50 years. That is going against the DNC candidates. Recently backing Nina was AOC still going against the DNC candidate. That's not the "status quo". And, that is infinitely better than going outright backwards, with Republicans. Get a grip on reality and focus the jaded anger where it should be. This getting angriest with those most aligned to your own views, is nonsensical. Slandering the vast majority of progressives, and the vast majority of progressive voters who vote for them, as "fakes", "frauds", "sellouts", and writing them all off as no longer allies, because of some stupid secondary tactic, is lunacy. Getting so jaded and angry, because you didn't get your way, and not voting, or casting a useless vote, and letting Republicans back in power ... THAT is the "status quo". That is what has been happening for decades.
All the covid misinformation is even more dangerous lunacy. Jimmy should be shut down, at this point. He is now making money off of encouraging people to die.
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@scoogsy Harris agreed it was already a given that, if you set a subjective goal, science can help you achieve that goal. If I want to go to the moon, science can tell me if something I do objectively moves me closer or further from that goal. Likewise, if you insert your own subjective idea of "well being" as your subjective goal, then science can also help achieve that goal. If Harris doesn't provide anything that gets you beyond that given, then he completely failed at showing how science can tell us what our goal should be ... a purely objective goal. He failed.
He defeated his own hierarchy nonsense in a seperate article, where he fearmongers about AI that is as advanced beyond us as we are to ants. If his hierarchy was actually objective, then he should be arguing that we should do whatever the AI wants, that it has objectively more value than us, as we supposedly have objectively more value than ants.
He then claims that all moral systems are about the "well being" of conscious creatures. If that's the case, then there are as many concepts of "well being" as there are concepts of moral systems. But, Harris moves on as if there is a singular concept of "well being" ... his own subjective one ... by which he can then "scientifically" judge all other moral systems.
He can't seem to make an analogous analogy to save his life:
Chess is a game with rules. It's not analogous to morality. It's analogous to laws (rules). Laws may be a reflection of a society's current morals, but they aren't themselves morality. People can come along and argue a law is itself immoral, just like they can come along and change game rules, if they want, and play a new way.
"Healthy" and "unhealthy" don't include oughts. "Moral", on the other hand, is how we ought to behave, and "immoral" is how we ought not behave.
He seems to be totally clueless as to what "poisoning" actually is, claiming some totally objective difference between "poison" and "food". "Poisoning" is simply too much of something in your system. We eat cyanide in apples. We can get poisoned from too much water. Most "poisonings" are overdoses of medications that are supposed to make us healthier.
Harris failed, and never provided anything beyond what he agreed was already a given. He also failed at some pretty basic philosophy.
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@scoogsy Holy crap. You can't even keep the words in front of your face straight. I didn't mention both is-ought. I mentioned only "ought". The words "moral" and "immoral" have oughts in them ... how we ought and ought not behave. If it's okay to behave immorally, then the word has no meaning. It is okay to eat an unhealthy Big Mac, if you feel like it. There's no "ought not" in "unhealthy". It's just a fact it's "unhealthy". It's okay to go skydiving and unhealthily increase your odds of dying. If you likewise take the "ought not" out of "immoral", then immorality no longer refers to wrong behaviour. It's a shite analogy.
I know full well the arrogant idiot thinks he solved the is-ought problem. He didn't, because his argument is based totally on subjectivity, not objectivity. He didn't get beyond his starting point. His hierarchy, which he does include, is subjective. Without it, he'd have to argue for veganism. His personal concept of "well being" is also subjective.
The difference between cyanide, water, and being "poisoned" has more to do with amounts. A drop of cyanide won't "poison" you. A ton of water will. A bunch of alcohol will. A bunch of medication will. Etc. Etc. Yet, we willingly ingest all the time. Poisoning isn't even always a bad thing to do. We intentionally poison people to cure cancer. Another shite analogy.
I think you're the one that needs to reread the book, without your fanboy glasses on.
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@mickelcsaszar3244 God could have killed every firstborn sons of the Israelites, brought plagues, ordered stonings (like he did for numerous other things), etc., etc., etc., until they stopped slavery. Not like he wasn't willing to genocide the world, to end "evil", or anything. Could have just started yet a third time, and say "Oh, and extra rule, this time, that I forgot to tell Noah ... no slavery."
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@barbiquearea States had already negotiated new treaty lines with natives, opening up plenty of land for settlement, before the American Revolution. Washington had also been personally given tens of thousands of acres, as a reward for his service in the French Indian War. There's no indication the proclamation line was a major factor leading into the revolution.
American colonists largely did protest over new tax policies, to pay for debts from the war, and against being taxed without representation (and then they later went on to enacted their own taxes to pay for debts from the revolutionary war). Expanding voting to white male landowners, is still a much more democratic system, then nobody voting, and an appointed governor making decisions. Most white male colonists did own property, so it was almost all of them. Later expanding the system to include non landowners, then minority males, then women, were all also steps that made things more democratic, even if there are still undemocratic aspects to the system.
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@MorarLa Absolutely anyone who breaks laws is anti-American? It doesn't actually require trying to overthrow the government, or going to war against the nation? Like the underground railroad, sitting on the back of the bus, or whatnot? All anti-American, because they broke the laws of the times, in protest of the laws of the times?
Give me a break. Everything I mentioned was commonplace. Plenty of research has led to the consensus that maybe 10% of slaves were treated decently, and they were still considered property, and had no rights. Slaves couldn't testify against white people (very undemocratic), even if there were a law against doing any of those things. Who was going to? The other white guys doing the same stuff?
The senate going against the house is undemocratic. The very concept of the senate is undemocratic. Gerrymandering is undemocratic. Freezing the number of seats in the house, and therefore the number of electorals, is undemocratic. Women not being allowed to vote was undemocratic. Blacks and other minorities not being allowed to vote was undemocratic. By the time Brown came along, the Northern states had already abolished slavery. Are you sure, with over half the population not being allowed to vote, and the voting majorities in the North having already abolished slavery, that slavery was supported by the majority of Americans, and he was going against that?
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@beastmasterx7091 Nothing you said changes the fact that a sales tax is a regressive tax, that would hurt the poorest people most. It would be a terrible way to try and totally fund the government. I think giant corporations and the super rich have proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that they'll do anything and everything to avoid paying their fair share in taxes. I'd totally ditch sales taxes, VATs, or anything of the sort, plus ditch corporate taxes and switch to making corporations pay progressive shares to the public to operate in that country and make money off that public. Something like ... small businesses that do $1m and under business get a pass, $1-10m business the public gets a 10% share in the company, $10-100m the public gets a 20% share, $100m-$1b the public gets a 30% share, $1-10b the public gets a 40% share, $10-100b the public gets a 50% share, $100+b the public gets a 60% share. Or, maybe scale it based on a business's percent of GDP so it works in any size economy. Kind of like how Norway has a majority share of its major oil company ... only do that with all businesses, scaling down the share based in the size of the business.
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@adamcramm There are tons of laws and regulations based on that philosophy. Even if the majority of the population isn't getting raped, but many are, we take away the individual's freedom to rape people ... or murder, assault, etc. The majority of people might not be getting food poisoning, but many are, so we take away a business' freedom to not wash, wear gloves, sell past expiration dates, etc. And on and on and on ... there are tons. Your slippery slope isn't as slippery as you think. It's a slow roll, that can be stopped wherever we want.
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@sullen2420 I understood, just fine, and replied that they'd lose whatever leverage they have, being in a minority. YOU, keep dodging my questions.
I don't give a crap, if you think it is, or isn't, their job. The entire argument that they have some little amount of leverage, entirely rests on them being in the majority party. So, is it smart for them to try and retain a majority, and retain any leverage they have? Or, is it smart to let Republicans win the majority, and lose any leverage they have?
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@whyamimrpink78 Hrrrmmm ... One guy convinces tens of millions of people not to believe any media, any other politicians, any judges, any lawyers, any law enforcement, any scientists, any doctors, any nurses ... anybody ... even to not believe their own lying eyes, if they contradict Fuehrer Trumpty Dumpty. He incites his cult into trying to overthrow the democratic process, and even got further than getting stuck at a beer hall. If you're at a rally marching with Nazi flag wavers, Confederate flag wavers, other white supremacist symbol wavers, a bunch of Tiki torch carrying anti-Semites, organized by white supremacists, with white supremacist speakers, defending a statue of a racist who was willing to kill and die to keep black people enslaved ... in what reality are you "very fine people"? How are you not a racist? How are you not a racist, thinking there were "very fine people" at a white supremacist rally?
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@anticom6099 No, dimwit, the complaint lays out problems they have with both the books and with teacher's manuals. You definitely have reading comprehension problems. They even state clearly that they have a problem with the books, as well ...
"The classroom books and teacher manuals reveal both explicit and implicit Anti-American, Anti-White, and Anti-Mexican teaching."
They even state clearly that they're attacking history ... "historical mistakes".
Ummm, Christians are constantly wanting their morality to be law of the land, and taught. I've never considered them wanting abstinence taught in sex ed, or whatever, to be the same as them wanting to outright teach Christianity, though. Likewise, simply teaching that something was racist isn't teaching CRT.
Your propaganda rants are quite ironic.
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@anticom6099 No. I didn't say the books alone are the problem. I said they have a problem with the books. You're the one trying to pretend that they don't actually have a problem with the books, that it's only the books in combination with the teacher manuals that they have a problem with. It's you that's trying to make out like, if the teacher manuals weren't involved, they wouldn't have a problem with the books, when there's zero indication they wouldn't still have a problem with the books.
The fact they they include "Anti-Mexican" in their complaint, because one of the books also shows examples of racism directed towards Mexicans, is another indicator they have a problem with the books. It's also an indicator that they're dishonest, because they're arguing the examples of racism towards black Americans is instead Anti-White, not Anti-Black. Examples of racism directed towards Mexicans should likewise be Anti-White, rather than Anti-Mexican.
Anti-racism can only be Anti-White, if you're arguing white people are all racists. Is that what you're arguing? Is that what you're claiming the teachers' are saying? They don't teach that there were any white Americans involved in fighting against slavery, fighting to end segregation, or whatnot? That would be weird, if that were the case. But I highly doubt that is the case.
How the f*ck is being against government authoritarianism itself authoritarianism? Have antifa stormed the Capitol to try and overthrow the democratic process, and install themselves an unelected dictator, or something? You're basically arguing American revolutionists were themselves authoritarians, just by fighting against authoritarianism. That's moronic. You're turning much of history into "fascism".
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@anticom6099 Again, you're making up an argument for them. Their complaint takes issue with both books and manuals. You are completely inventing that they don't actually have a problem with the books. You're a dishonest hypocrite, creating your own propaganda.
Rofl. You're seriously arguing that teachers either don't teach how slavery or the civil rights ended, or they never mention the likes of Lincoln or JFK? Give me a break. One of the images they're complaining about is one of a black girl being protected by white bodyguards, ffs. You're spewing nonsense.
Yes, the founding fathers rioted, destroyed private property, attacked the police/military, got even angrier when those police/military shot violent protesters, and then outright declared war ... killing plenty of their own countrymen, and destroying a ton of their property. Are you completely brain-dead, or what?
What authoritarians? Cops that kill their own citizens at hundreds of times the rate of some other developed countries. In what reality is wanting cops to be less brutal, being more authoritarian? Again, they are not the ones trying to completely overthrow the democratic process to install themselves an unelected dictator.
I don't watch mainstream media. Your mental telepathy is as bad as your takes.
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@anticom6099 No. They clearly state that they have a problem with the books and the manuals. They have a problem with the books. They have a problem with the manuals. Take away the books, and there's zero indication they wouldn't still have a problem with the manuals. Take away the manuals, and there's zero indication they wouldn't still have a problem with the books. You're the one clearly inventing a position for them, straight from your imagination.
Rofl, did you go to PragerU, where they teach John Brown and Lincoln were bad guys, or something? Oh, and now you've gone and protected your own unsupported claim with another unsupported claim. There seem to be plenty of online lesson plans, and curriculum outlines, about abolitionists, Lincoln, and the Civil War. I think it's you, who should be the one showing the some teachers are teaching that emancipation came about with zero white people involved.
Umm, it was a British colony, and they were British subjects, at the time, dimwit. They were fighting against their own Empire's police/military and their own government (including attacking people in positions filled by their own neighbors), and the Loyalists most definitely lived on the same land they did.
You're nothing but projection, clearly being the one inventing a position for the complaining "moms", and clearly being the one reinventing history.
How is a system that has police killing citens at 50x the rate of the UK, 150x the rate of Japan, an immeasurable hundreds of times more than the rate of Denmark, not authoritarian? US citizens are only killing each other at 4-5x the rate of those countries, while the police are killing citizens at 50-hundreds times more than they are. How is imprisoning more of the population than any other country in the world, including all the dictatorships, not authoritarian? Again ... when was it antifa stormed the Capitol to try and install their leader as an unelected dictator?
Rofl. I like the way you say "over our republic". The R in USSR stands for Republics. The R in PRC stands for Republic. The important part is the US being a representative democracy, not being a republic. Basically every country that's not a monarchy is a republic. It's moron Republicans who constantly argue for a more undemocratic society, now even arguing for a completely anti-democratic society.
Right wing loons: Communism/socialism never succeeds!
Also right wing loons: China is killing us economically!
Give it a rest, dimwit. If you think you sound any different than a million other right wing nutters, you're wrong. And, you're proving to be just as ignorant as the rest of them, as well.
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@anticom6099 Nope. What is explicitly stated is that they have a problem with books and manuals. You have only provided evidence that you have severe reading comprehension problems and a vivid imagination.
Nothing you blathered changes the absolute fact that they were British subjects, living in a British colony ... a colony, btw, that had recently needed protection during the French-Indian War. They were fighting against their own King, not someone else's King. They were fighting against their own parliament, not someone else's. They were fighting their own police/military, not someone else's. Their neighbors were amongst those in appointed positions. Their neighbors were the Loyalists. There are loyalists whose ancestry traces to the Mayflower, and even before the Mayflower. You saying their was a clear difference is just you providing more evidence that you are a complete ignoramus.
Oh geez, now you're bringing out the evidence that you're an absolute loon. So, you believe that the most racist states ... where the majority voted against abolitionists and voted for slavery, for decades, where the majority voted for secessionists, where the majority was willing to kill and die for the "right" to own and abuse other human beings (which is what their new constitution was largely about) ... states where the majority (from both parties) then continued to vote for Jim Crow and segregationists for another hundred years, states where folks were perfectly fine with lynchings and the KKK ... just magically up and became the least racist voters, now representing the least racist states, voting for the least racist party, almost overnight. Rofl!
The fact that all the Republicans, in those states, also voted against Civil Rights, indicated Republicans were just as racist, in those states. The fact that the Democrat president created the bill ... the fact that the majority of Democrats passed the bill ... didn't, at all, push all those racists in those more racist states to start simply voting for the racist Republican candidates instead of the racist Democrat candidates, from their racist states? Nope, they just magically stopped being racists, according to lunatic right wingers, like you. And the vast majority of the millions of black Americans ... who left those more racist states during the great migration, and moved to those less racist states, and started voting for those Northern Democrats (which represented the majority of Democrats that voted for Civil Rights, just like Northern Republicans did), and have become a significant percentage of Democrat representatives ... must be completely clueless as to which party is more racist. By your own standards, you've provided evidence you're a racist, by portraying black Americans as violent and stupid.
Red states, where it tends to be easier to get a gun, actually tend to have both higher firearm mortality rates and higher homicide rates. The per capita gun violence capital of the US is St Louis Missouri, not Chicago. Chicago, the place right wingers keep blathering about, isn't even top 10. Don't pretend like you care if people shoot each other, as you're providing them the environment it's easiest to get a gun in.
US civilians are killing each other at 4-5x the rate of those countries, while the police are killing civilians at over 50x the rate of those countries. That's just a fact. US police are the most violent gang on the streets.
Rofl!! Aaaaand, now you've provided evidence you're a cultists. There is zero evidence the election was rigged, you nutbar. Did you ask Santa for a JFK Jr, for Christmas? No. Trying to save lives is not the dictionary definition of "fascism". And, yes, it saves lives. Australia's covid death rate would translate into about 26k total US covid deaths, instead of 826k. 75-90% of those dying are unvaccinated. The hospitalization rate for the unvaccinated is 89x that of the vaccinated. Smoking has been pretty much banned indoors everywhere. Smokers have to pay higher insurance rates. Smokers have to pay extra taxes. Every single state already has vaccine mandates for public school kids. The federal government already has vaccine mandates for the military and immigrants. That's the kind of thing you're whining and crying about. Literally, NOT the definition of fascism, but instead health and safety measures, the likes of which have been around for over a century. At this rate, there will be about a million fewer Republican voters, by 2024, due purely to stupidity.
Dumpty was doing business in China, he leases property to the bank of China, he sold Ivanka's condo to a Chinese lobbyist ... Mitch is married into a family that runs a Chinese company, that buys government made boats, that gets government loans, and that has another daughter on the board at the bank of China ... Republicans are kissing plenty of China ass. Dumpty did no real damage to China, but he did do some significant damage to American farmers. Good thing Trump was still able to have wealth redistributed to those according to their need, from those according to their ability, and help those farmers out, considering it's such a terrible philosophy, that will soon fail.
Yes, I did rebut your plainly bullshit statement by calling it bullshit. That's the only rebuttal a bullshit strawman deserves. Just the fact that you think overemphasizing anti-racism could possibly be the "most racist", when you've got states that still have Confederate "Heroes" Days, when you've got hate crimes rising, when you've got unite the right rallies with people marching with Confederate and Nazi flags, anti-Semitic tiki torch marchers, a "leader" telling citizens (even ones born in the US) to go back where they came from, a "leader" that likes to reminisce about the good ol' civil rights era when you could beat protesters, when you've got PragerU making out like slavery was good, when you've got Tucker peddling replacement propaganda, etc., etc., etc.
You: But, but, but ... that teacher pointed out there was racism one too many times! They are the most racist!!!!!!!!!
F*ck off, with that bullshit.
You don't know what "evidence" means. The only evidence you've provided is evidence that you're an ignorant, idiotic, lunatic, death cultist, that's living in some alternate reality.
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And if you stand up and fight, the guy beside you might stand up and fight ... but he might not, depends on what you're fighting ... but, if he does stand up and fight, then the lady beside him might stand up and fight ... but, she might not ... likely not, because women tend to do less random stupid shit, like fighting ... but, at minimum, you'll be fighting ... what, we don't know, but it will be a royally grand fight!
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@daniel-bg5nq What are you talking about, "isn't required"? They're on a computer, using the internet, showing things from the internet, and talking about those things, all the time, aren't they? They have the ability to put Tim in a window, and show another window of internet videos, or whatnot. How they can't figure out how to put a guest in a seperate zoom window, I have no clue. The only answer is that they're inept, or full of shit.
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@whyamimrpink78 A surge in demand can cause inflation, which happens when you reopen. Your argument against Biden is incoherent, if you actually wanted Trump to provide more covid relief, as well. The house had already passed two different HEROES Acts. All the senate had to do was vote either through. McConnell didn't even allow a vote on either.
You're spewing nonsense. Countries with much better pandemic responses also tended to have better economies, and it wasn't because they did nothing and simply stayed open no matter what. Almost all of the best response countries quickly had very high testing rates (tests per confirmed case), testing 50+ people pcc. The mediocre response countries, were testing 15+ people pcc. The US, on the other hand, had a pathetic covid testing rate, testing about 5 people pcc, for months, that Trump did nothing about. The US had pathetic mask use, encouraged by Trump. If things were getting out of control, in some areas, and more severe measures were taken, Trump encouraged defying them. Nothing you blathered about states, or your politician anecdotes, was an actual argument that they had better economies or better health responses. Just a big nothingburger.
Nope. There's no evidence ows actually sped up the development of vaccines. Again, the first one out of the gate had nothing to do with ows, and others that had nothing to do with ows were coming out at similar times to those that did. At most ows was about ordering enough supply and distributing it. Trump didn't order as much as he could, didn't leave enough of a supply, and wasn't prepared to distribute as much as he possibly could.
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@UCy9d4PdVUo2g4EwmwgFwfcg Buddy, I'm a Canadian. Our politics are almost entirely left of US politics and, personally, I almost can't score any further left, or further libertarian, on a political compass test. Economically, most US Democrats are to the right of our Conservative party. I think both the US parties suck ass, and I struggle with not believing that the US is a majority of morons, for not voting Bernie, and for not joining the rest of the developed world. I also understand the benefit of having a viable third party (NDP, which I vote for) and, under normal circumstances, might support not voting Democrat, letting an average Republican be president, let the Democrat party fall apart, and pushing for a third party to rise up.
Having said that, it's not normal times. US Republicans are outright cookoo for cocopuffs insane. They're letting hundreds of thousands of people die, and you've got 70m people who look like they'd be willing to close the door on democracy, and check the final box for outright fascism, just to keep Trumpty Dumpty in office. That's not the time to be bashing the most progressive people you've got. Whether you're a full blown USSR style communist, an underground anarchist, or a US crony capitalist (all totally not in the same tribe) you team up and take out the damn fucking fascists ... pronto. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and the fucking psychos should be your biggest enemy. Have your cold war with the corporate Dems later, or on the side, but stay focused on who the biggest threat is. Bannon is calling for heads. Jones is calling for a revolution. Oath keepers are saying they're armed and ready, when Trump gives the word. Proud Boys are standing by. But, hey, let's take this time to bash AOC and make baseless bullshit claims that progressives are just there for appearances, as if the corporate Dems actually wanted progressives to win instead of fighting them tooth and nail. That's getting into some conspiracy crap and, whatever the case, they should be the last people on your hit list.
That's if you actually want to move the US left, which I'm no longer sure Jimmy does. I stopped watching because Jimmy was seeming more and more like a Sam Harris type, claiming to be more liberal than the liberals he was constantly bashing, while spouting all kinds of crap far right nutters would lap up. And, no, the odd swing at a Republican, every blue moon, doesn't balance things out.
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@2727rogers There is only one possible solution to passing M4A, and that is to convert or replace enough members of congress to pass the bill. AOC, Justice Dems, a Bernie PAC, have been working on doing just that. They added a few more M4A yes votes to congress in the last election. AOC and Bernie were campaigning to add one more M4A yes vote, in Nina Turner, while Jimmy opposed adding one more.
There's already a list of members of congress that won't sign onto the bill. Go protest them.
Pelosi actually introduced the M4A bill last session, where it died in committees that didn't do anything with it. It has already been reintroduced, and is in committees again. Look who is on the committees and go protest them to take up the bill.
Endlessly bitching about, and slandering, the most progressive members of congress, M4A's most ardent congressional supporters, people who have done more for M4A in a few years than Dore has in his entire lifetime, is moronic and insane.
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@joeb134 Well, Sam Harris has argued that, so some people do. Plus, that's the impression programmers have tried to give. The UN demonstration, for example, had the AI saying it "believed", was "very happy", etc. You should definitely worry about a programmer who has its AI say it could rule the world better. But hey, lets instead worry about a wonky image creator. And, don't worry about the extra arms, legs, or digits, they sometimes produce ... just that they had a skin tone issue.
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@t-swizzle8102 Rofl! Do you know what a false equivalency is?
The Tea Party was backed by leading Republican donors, like the Koch brothers, who were also pressuring Republican members of congress to move further right. Are there any major Democratic donors pressuring Democrats to move left? No?
Republicans have a natural predisposition to moving right, anyway. Do corporate Dems have a natural predisposition to moving left? No?
With that pressure on congress members Tea Party numbers were regularly increasing, as members converted. Are corporate Dems converting to being progressives? No?
And, the only thing that gave Tea Party members the power to block any bills, was the other Republicans' unwillingness to work with Democrats, instead. All they had to do was make some concessions to Democrats, bring enough Democrats on board, and pass the bill without needing Tea Party votes. Do corporate Dems have a complete unwillingness to work with Republicans? No?
There's no equivalence to the Tea Party's situation.
It's math, dimwit. There are zero extra votes to the left of progressives. It is absolutely impossible to pass a bill without Manchin. On the other end, there is the entire Republican party to try and draw extra votes from. Bring one Republican on board, and it's entirely possible to pass a bill without Bernie. Bring enough house Republicans on board and it's entirely possible to pass a bill without the squad. If corporate Dems are willing to work with Republicans, a stand off will more likely end up pushing a bill further right, not left.
Empty virtue signalling is going on and on, for a f*cking year about a missed chance to get a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, ffs. A performance art vote would get you no closer to getting M4A. Fighting to increase numbers in congress actually does move you closer to being able to pass the bill. You dimwitted Dore knobs have things completely backwards. Dore is sitting in his $2m garage and not giving a shit if anyone ever gets healthcare. That's why he doesn't care if the country goes outright backwards, and 10m of the poorest Americans are thrown off of Medicaid expansion. That's why he doesn't care if you sit on the sidelines for the next century. That's what he doesn't care, when he helps another grifter campaign against Bernie. That's why he didn't care, when he abandoned Nina. He's a grifter, dimwit. His increasing right wing audience should have clued you in. Or, maybe you're one of them, just pretending.
You're more upset at Democrats, that you only got $1400, than you are at Republicans, every one of which voted against giving you anything? $1400 and $0, is totally samesies, to you? No difference? Just how dumb are you? Plus the unemployment extension they all voted against. Plus the eviction moratorium they all voted against. Plus repeatedly extending the freeze on student loan payments and interest (How are you still having to make student loan payments?), that they're all opposed to. Rescinding numerous Trump executive orders is totally samesies as Trump signing those orders. Signing a.number of new beneficial executive orders is totally samesies as not signing those orders. A near end to drone strikes is totally samesies as Trump dropping more bombs than Obama. Oh, oh, but I'm a brain dead Dore knob ... look at this thing that hasn't changed ... they're totally samesies!!!
You're obviously the one that doesn't care, dimwit, if you have the luxury to let Republicans, and corporate Dems, rule for decades to come. Whatever you think of current progressives, running as a Dem is clearly the more effective way for a progressive to win a seat in congress, and remove a corporate Dem.
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@helluvastart Like I said, according to himself.
"It's thought that science can help us get what we value, but it can never tell us what we ought to value."
So, if we pick our own subjective definition of "well being", like Sam does, then science can help us achieve that goal. End of "thesis". He never actually makes it beyond what he says is already a given.
His "analogies" are moronic.
Take his chess "analogy". Rules of chess are analogous to laws, not morality. To get rules for a game, first you have to subjectively decide to make them up and then subjectivity decide to play that game. There's no science telling you that "you ought to play chess". Even if you do subjectively choose to play, there's nothing saying it's objectively wrong to lose, if you want to say lose to your child, or something.
His "healthy" and "unhealthy" "analogy" is equally moronic. Those terms don't include oughts. Eating Big Macs may be "unhealthy", but so what? That only matters if I subjectively care about being healthy. Skydiving may be "unhealthy", because it increases your chance of dying but, again, so what? People enjoy skydiving. Comparing terms that don't include oughts to terms that do (moral: how you ought to behave; immoral: how you ought not behave) is completely idiotic.
Harris is a moron.
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@thehappyclam3942 Hitler was backed by leading German industrialists. He promised his backers that he wouldn't be redistributing wealth. Nazis allied with other far right parties, to form the Harzburg Front. They literally killed off any prominent left leaning members, on the Night of the Long Knives. They went after communists, socialists, and unionists, first, for "illegal socialist activity". Hitler blamed Jews for creating socialism, because Marx was of Jewish descent. He blamed the Communist Party for the Reichstag fire, claimed they were "terrorists", outlawed them, and rounded them up.
Mussolini denied the class struggle, that is the very foundation of socialism/communism. He promoted accepting your lot in life, and just working hard, for the betterment of the nation, in an "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country", kind of way. The Nazis were a little more, "For God and country!" ... People simply working together, towards a goal, doesn't equate to communism/socialism.
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@thehappyclam3942 @thehappyclam3942 @thehappyclam3942 YouTube not liking some word here ...
@thehappyclam3942 Htler was backed by leading Grman industrialists. He promised his backers that he wouldn't be redistributing wealth. Nzis allied with other far right parties, to form the Harzburg Front. They literally klled off any prominent left leaning members, on the Night of the Long Knives. They went after cmmunists, scialists, and unionists, first, for "illegal scialist activity". Htler blamed Jws for creating scialism, because Mrx was of Jwish descent. He blamed the Cmmunist Party for the Reichstag fire, claimed they were "trrorists", outlawed them, and rounded them up.
Mssolini denied the class struggle, that is the very foundation of scialism/cmmunism. He promoted accepting your lot in life, and just working hard, for the betterment of the nation, in an "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country", kind of way. People simply working together, towards a goal, doesn't equate to cmmunism/scialism.
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@2727rogers Anyone who voted Republican, because Democrats let them down, sure as hell didn't have M4A as a priority. And it wouldn't be enough to add significantly more progressive seats. Plenty came back, or came out of the non voter woodwork, to vote psycho Dumpty out of office, to get the current seating, which is what I used as my example.
Yeah, the senate shouldn't exist, and the 1930s bill that froze the number of house seats also froze the number of electorals, which has made the electoral college increasingly disproportionate, all of which benefits the right, already giving them more power than they deserve. Drastically splitting the votes, while they remain united and have those added benefits (as well as gerrymandering), would be political suicide.
Canada also shouldn't have a senate, btw. It's like still having an unelected house of lords.
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@gnubbiersh647 He called chess a game of "perfect objectivity". Someone subjectively decided to make a game, decided on the pieces, decided how they'd move, decided on the board, and on any special moves. There is nothing objectively wrong with using alternate rules, or an alternate board (Star Trek chess). Even once all that is decided, there's nothing objectively wrong with letting your opponent beat you (maybe let your kid win once in awhile so they don't get frustrated). Harris has a very slim grasp on philosophy basics, like objectivity and subjectivity. A game, with a book of rules, is analogous to laws (book of laws), not morality. And, sometimes we decide laws themselves are immoral/wrong.
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@ragingbull94mtx Trump ran on fixing the economy, as well as his other bullshit, and "they" (FOX and guests), jumped on the Trump bandwagon. Instead of pointing at the "record high", a mostly meaningless statement, they'd point at the slow recovery rate. Obama's last budget ran through most of Trump"s first year in office. Since Trump's first budget, his tax cuts kicking in, and the start of his trade wars, the stock market has almost flatlined, but now they go on about the "record high". They're partisan hacks, not newspeople.
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@Addamo Really? A dozen seditious conspiracy charges, and you're still playing the ... but was it an insurrection ... game?
What's ironic about the Dems passing their own budget? Isn't that what tends to happen? AOC voted against the individual state department and defense department appropriation bills. She didn't vote against funding healthcare, housing, education, veteran's benefits, SNAP, SSI, etc., if that's what you're moronically looking for.
The Capitol Hill police bill was amended in the senate and made bipartisan. It passed with large bipartisan support, and came back for a house vote. AOC actually voted against the final version of that bill, as well, but it passed with overwhelming support.
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@Ebikelover No. You're brainwashed by the right wing media, dumb dumb.
"A small number of Capitol riot defendants — at least three charged in the federal criminal investigation — have been accused of carrying firearms. But guns weren't the only threat. According to court documents reviewed by CBS News, 39 defendants have been accused of wielding "deadly or dangerous" weapons that weren't firearms, including Tasers, tomahawk axes, crowbars, flagpoles, a knife, an ice axe, a firecracker, a stun gun, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, a wooden club and chemical spray."
"The right-wing Oath Keepers militia group was prepared to move a stash of firearms and equipment from a Virginia hotel to rioters on Jan. 6 last year, federal prosecutors said, painting the most detailed portrait yet of the planning the group’s members allegedly undertook as they tried to stop the certification of Joe Biden’s 2020 presidential election win."
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@brentnoury7626 But, that wasn't the annual military aid to Israel. That was to rearm what is purely a defensive system. The Iron Dome doesn't kill Palestinians. The annual military aid to Israel is in the State department appropriation bill. Unlike Hinkle dishonestly made out, AOC actually voted against the State Department appropriation bill. What she voted for was the entire annual budget, which includes things like healthcare, education, housing, veteran's benefits, SNAP, SSI, etc. He wasn't really asking her to vote solely against the state department, which she had already done. He was asking her to vote against everything. She also voted against the defense appropriation bill. She also voted against the final version of the Capitol Hill police bill (it was amended in the senate and came back). She has actually voted against most of the things he wanted her to vote against. Dore knobs are dishonest.
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@bloui1033 You're kind of incoherent. You told me you weren't using the unfair treatment definition, but then told others it's unfair treatment.
If it's simply recognizing a difference, what's wrong with, at minimum, recognizing that women have been drastically underrepresented in the supreme court, for over two centuries, and are currently underrepresented, 6-3. There will be legal cases, that specifically deal with women's issues. In fact, odds are, there will be more legal cases dealing specifically with women's issues than specifically with men's issues.
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All well and good in a void, but the US has an even further right party of outright fascists, that tried to overthrow the democratic process to install themselves an unelected dictator. Vote for progressives in the primaries. If they don't make it, vote to keep the fascists out in the general. Splitting the progressive voters from more conservative Dem voters, in the general, would just let Republicans rule for decades to come, and wouldn't give progressives any more power. In fact, it would give them less power.
As is, progressives only need to become the majority of the party, to pick the party speaker candidate, and take the party in the direction they want. As a third party, they'd have to win the majority of congress, to have any power.
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@mfflscotty2095 And what good is equipment and policies, without workers, to work that equipment, and implement those policies? No, we want to give more money to "workers", because they're the ones doing the work. The clue is in their name.
Every measure they use, to increase profits, and their personal wealth, either takes more money from consumers (which are mostly workers), or gives less money to workers. To pretend like one side doesn't get less, when another side gets more, is nonsensical.
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"No individuals or groups (political parties, cultural associations, economic unions, social classes) outside the State. Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle." ~ Mussolini, The Doctrine of Fascism
They also like to complain about celebrities, telling them to shut up, or that their opinions don't matter, but they'll sure pull one out quick, if they've got one. Hell, they've elected two as presidents, now.
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@freedomlover9196 Lol, I know exactly what feudalism is. It started with a bunch of medieval cattle (fihu) barons with no laws or regulations above them. When they'd have property disputes, they'd settle them privately. Eventually some expanded their private property claims. They'd form family alliances expanding private property claims. Expansion. Expansion. Until one claimed to personally own a large enough region to declare themselves king of a kingdom. Again, at that level, there were also multiple other private property owning kings, with no law or regulation above them, who claimed ownership of entire kingdoms.
You simply referenced the highest level private property owner, the highest feudal lord, making whatever rules they wanted for living on their private property, enforcing those rules with their private army, and charging whatever they wanted for living and working on their private property.
It was only a parliament, and the removal of a monarch's power, that created a governing body above the highest private property owner, and an end to their monopoly on land and power.
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@freedomlover9196 It's not even ancient history. The same thing was happening on the Western frontiers, where there was little in the way of consistent law and order. Cattle barons, feeling like they could do what they want, hired private armies of cowboys, attacked sheep herders, and others. They were stopped by the law moving in, but still lasted into the 20th century.
The early medieval feudal lords used livestock as currency, mainly cattle, long before they ever started minting currency. They were medieval cattle barons, usually starting out as a growing family clans, with a head of the family.
A King being nervous of a possible peasant uprising isn't the same as the peasants being in control of a government of the people for the people, and being able to make laws over the king and other nobles.
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@rev.chuckshingledecker Likud's Revisionist Zionsim founders were around though. Ze'ev Jabotinsky literally had some of his Betar militant youth movement train with fascists, in Italy. They became the Irgun and Lehi. The Lehi also tried to ally with the Italians, Germans, and Vichy, during WWII, and kept fighting against the British. Here's what Einstein, and other prominent Jews, thought of Likud's founders ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
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@joshboston2323 Well, there's his nonsensical morality argument, that includes him using completely garbage "analogies". One being using chess as an "analogy" to morality, and calls it a game of pure objectivity. But, chess has rules, which is an analogy to having laws, not to morality. And, those rules were created by the subjective decisions of its creator, people make the subjective decision to play or not, people make the subjective decision whether they actually want to win or not (might want to let their kid win), people make the subjective decision whether they want to use alternative rules or not, ... He also argues against himself, first claiming all variations of morality are about "well being". If true, that would mean everyone has a different idea of what "well being" entails, everyone has a different subjective concept of "well being". But then he makes out like his version of "well being" is objective and uses it to judge other versions of "well being" as worse. He doesn't ever actually get beyond his initial statement about the consensus being that science/objectivity, can't tell you what main goal to set, but once you subjectively decide on a main goal, science/objectivity can tell you, objectively, whether a course of action will bring you closer to, or further from, reaching that goal. All he did was stick in his own subjective version of "well being", as the main goal. It was complete nonsense, by a dimwit who thinks he's smarter than Hume.
There's also his fearmongering about AI, as if an AI having more knowledge (objectivity), giving an example of an AI that's more intelligent to us than we are to ants, will somehow lead to it turning against us (subjectivity). There's zero indication we can even create an AI with its own subjectivity, its own ability for primary goal setting. You have to worry about the programmers who are programming in the primary goals, not an AI suddenly up and deciding it wants to organize paperclips, one day. An AI has no personal desires.
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@henrywallace2257 Nope. He said Trump was far worse, and then used that to argue he was the better option for progressives. He vastly overestimated the benefits, claiming it would result in a massive progressive backlash, that would "for sure" lead to progressives taking the house (didn't happen) and senate (didn't happen), in 2018, and the presidency (didn't happen), in 2020. He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republicans would join the left to vote against a Trump agenda (didn't happen), rather than follow him into all out fascism (did happen), and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats (did happen) was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (hasn't happened, still waiting).
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@West Park Blah, blah, blah, the difference is economics, ffs. Ancappers and anarchists are not samesies, just because they both don't want governments. Neither are authoritarian communists and authoritarian capitalists samesies, just because they're both authoritarian.
Ummm, one bunch of nuts did just try to overthrow democracy and install an unelected dictator, supported by a majority of Republican members of congress, and Republican lawmakers across the country. You know, aiming for all out fascism.
On the flip side, absolutely no Democrats have promoted a 100% publicly owned and operated economy. There are zero communist politicians in power.
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@marciamakesmusic No, he said it showed perversions that had already been realized in both Communism and fascism. He already had a Stalinist country represented in the 3 totalitarian regimes, exactly where the USSR already was. He also already had an Imperialist regime based on Japan, their divine emperor, and suicidal devotion. Why would he include yet another Stalinist supernation, when he repeatedly stated he considered fascists to be the worst of the totalitarians, and not have them represented, at all?
That the Ingsoc claimed to be socialists, then quickly abandoned it, and are described in the forbidden book Winston reads as being outright opposed to socialism, suggests they're fascists. Much like Hitler's "national socialists", who weren't really socialists, and quickly killed off their own left leaning members on the road to power. Doublespeak would suggest they're the opposite of what they claim to be.
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@putinpuppet2063 Sure, empirical senses can be flawed, which is why we have more and more people make observations for things like science, to minimize the chance of flawed observations. Assuming parts are working properly, they're fairly objective, and what one person sees another person sees. Flawed parts doesn't make for a "subjective" observation, it just makes for an incorrect observation. Even a camera could be out of focus, have a scratch, or a microphone could be glitching, etc. Doesn't make their observations "subjective", just incorrect, or flawed.
What would be an example of a purely objective wrong decision?
Right, Ben is full of all kinds of crap, and is quite dishonest about his facts over feelings mantra. There's no factual evidence to support his religious beliefs.
I said make it matter, not make it a fact. I also outright said above that objectivity, facts, truth ... should be independent of any subjectivity. Him simply stating that life begins at conception, isn't actually an argument for action, one way or the other. He states that fact like there's then an automatic objective, emotionless, jump right to anti-abortion, simply because it's "life". So it's "life". So what? That doesn't actually matter without subjectivity. Ben subjectively cares about that zigot and doesn't want it harmed. His feelings are his actual argument, not his fact.
Right, an action can't be taken without subjectivity. Not helping someone?
Either A, you don't care either way, which means you didn't actually make a decision (like I said above, a robot would sit there observing ... that's not "deciding" not to act, it just doesn't give a crap, so doesn't act ... neither would a vacuum cleaner). B, you subjectively have a desire to see what happens if you don't help, so decide not to. C, you subjectively fear more for your own safety if you try to help, than you do theirs, so decide not to. Or, some other subjective reason to actually decide not to.
How could you actually decide not to act without subjectivity?
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Also a Canadian, here ...
Yeah, the US still hasn't fully recovered from McCarthyism and the Cold War. They've gone from being 40% unionization and a 90% marginal tax bracket, at the top, to 10% unionized and people, and corporations, at the top, getting away with paying no taxes. During that time, both parties tried to avoid any hint of being left leaning, as far as economics go. The Republicans moved way right, and Democrats moved right of centre. There are zero politicians proposing complete economic equality and an end to capitalism. There is no "far left" in US politics. On the other hand, there are numerous politicians spouting far right Ayn Rand type politics. Bernie, and new progressives, are pointing at centrist European countries to emulate. They're centre-left, at most. US politics ranges from far right to centre-left, but many politicians, and the media, have pushed this "far left" nonsense, when "far left" doesn't really exist in US politics.
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@secularsocialist Completely false, you dimwitted Dore knob.
Firstly, the Gallup article he cited clearly stated their hospitalization rates were for the total unvaccinated and vaccinated populations, together a hospitalization rate for the entire population.
Secondly, there are 3 different covid "death rates". 1 is the infection fatality rate, which has been estimated at about 1%, since the beginning, and multiple studies since then have supported about a 1% infection fatality rate, in developed countries. 2 is the case fatality rate, which changes constantly, which you can easily find the current rate, and which is even easy to do the math to figure out yourself. 3 is the crude mortality rate, which is covid deaths per the total population, which is also easy to find the current rate, or do the math to figure out yourself.
A 3.4% "death rate", from a year and a half ago, is clearly a case fatality rate. Only a complete and utter moron, couldn't find the current rate, or simply do the math. Even then, it's the wrong rate. If you're using a total population hospitalization rate, then the comparable "death rate" is the crude mortality rate. Comparing total population hospitalization rates to a case fatality rate is completely dishonest. You must be completely ignorant to think he made a valid comparison. Dumber than a stump.
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@secularsocialist Just how slow are you? I didn't claim simply giving opinions on YouTube and making money was grifting. I clearly spelled out what I meant by grifting. A grifter, like a snake oil salesman, claims to be selling you something beneficial, but is actually selling you something completely useless, or even harmful. Incredibly ironic, you claiming others are lying and strawmanning.
Nope, you're lying. He claimed Ivermectin was both an effective remedy and an effective preventative, on Rogan's show. He got caught in that lie with his first video on his new right wing platform, Rumble. Probably signed a deal, like his grifter friend Glenn did, for some of that Peter Thiel money ... made from working with the CIA, btw. By Jimmy's own "logic", he himself is both a grifter and a CIA agent.
You also lied about what he did with his dishonest comparison of rates based on totally different math.
Nope. He outright promoted Trump as the better option than Clinton, and made up some delusional fantasy to justify what he was saying, none of which came true. Promoting voting for Stein is also promoting letting Trump win. In no reality was she going to win, right. So you're just promoting not voting for the only viable alternative to Trump.
I know what actual anti-vax people say. They say covid is like a cold or flu, isn't that bad, so isn't worth getting vaccinated. Dore lying that covid deaths are "WILDLY inflated", by over 10x, supports their position. They claim there are alternatives to vaccines, and Dore promoting Ivermectin, and other unproven crap, as effective, supports their position. They claim the vaccine side effects are worse than covid. Dore constantly going on about negative side effects, while never pointing out that the rates for the same things, like tinnitus or myocarditis, are much much higher with those who get covid, supports their position. They claim it's some big pharma scam and Dore peddling that it's some big pharma scam, supports their position.
Nope. Tulsi wasn't to the left of Bernie on anything. Bernie said no intervention in Venezuela. Bernie spoke out against the right wing coup, and in favor of Morales, in Bolivia. Bernie called airstrikes on Syria illegal and unauthorized. Dore, and his knobs, just didn't do their homework.
Jimmy's guest clearly stated he was for an "extreme free market" and Dore clearly promoted allying with him. Boogaloos are psychos, that want to start a civil war, ffs.
Rofl! Dore literally brings up the bill of rights, with Carlson, you dishonest lying dimwitted Dore knob. That's exactly what he was talking about. While also peddling the right wing bullshit, that giant corporations, owned by centibillionaires, are "the left". He's his own best joke.
Fighting to add more yes votes to congress, when getting enough yes votes in congress is the only possible way to ever pass a bill, is the most important fight. Dore has actively worked against doing just that, and slanders people who have done just that.
He's a grifter, who claims he's for X, but is actually peddling you Y and/or Z.
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@sergeikhripun Seder was promoting Nina Turner, all along, trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress. Meanwhile, Jimmy actually argued against her ... against adding another M4A yes vote to congress.
The DSA has had M4A rallies before, that Dore didn't promote. Dore has ... also not promoted every M4A rally ever, openly argued against adding another M4A yes vote to congress, donated to an anti-M4A Republican, promoted far right anti-M4A ancap Boogaloos as allies, promoted anti-M4A Trump as the better option in 2016, promoted anti-M4A candidate Tulsi Gabbard in the 2020 primaries, didn't give a crap if 10m of the poorest Americans were tossed off Medicaid expansion, didn't care to try and add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion, and promotes third parties that have produced the likes of Kyrsten Sinema and haven't won a single seat in congress in decades ... but he has somehow crowned himself the one true champion of healthcare, and morons have bought it.
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@sergeikhripun Yeah, and Tucker had pro Assange videos going back a year before Dore was even on. Right wingers love WikiLeaks. Assange isn't some left wing issue. Did Tucker convince Dumpty to pardon Assange? No.
So, Jimmy goes on the show, and immediately agrees with Tucker's right wing framing of Trump being kicked off social media because of left wing cancel culture, and blathers about the first amendment, which doesn't even apply, and only feeds right wing morons' victim complex, and feeling their rights are being violated. Utter bullshit. Jimmy should have pointed out that there's no such thing as free speech rights on someone else's private property. He should have pointed out that right wingers are the ones siding with private property, and that, if you do want free speech rights, then you should back public ownership. He should have pointed out that giant corporations, owned by centibillionaires, aren't "leftist", in the least. He should have pointed out that right wingers are the ones who handed corporations so much power, argued they're people with their own rights, including the right to their own beliefs and right to act on those beliefs. They created the monster they're crying about. Plus, he should have pointed out that inciting insurrections and defamation aren't protected speech, even if you made social media an actual public square, through public ownership.
He should have pointed out that conservative religious types have been cancelling things and people for millennia. He should have pointed out that Republicans are fine when the government outright violates free speech, like the head of government firing or threatening to fire anyone who contradicts him, like anti-BDS laws, like LGBT books, like making it harder and more dangerous to protest, like an FCC still protecting delicate conservative sensibilities from naughty words and nipples, etc. He should have pointed out all the times Republicans have promoted cancelling a business or a person ... for kneeling, for being gay, for being trans, etc. He should have pointed out that "cancel culture" is nothing new, and not something just the left does. In fact, the left hardly uses government, in comparison, and instead uses social pressure, which is basically like the libertarian solution, to use Yelp, or something, to push a business to behave the way you want.
Yeah, and this was right before the well deserved second impeachment, Jimmy then threw in the off topic bone, to Tucker and his audience, that he too considered the first impeachment to be a sham, feeding their doubts about the second one. Nothing in the Mueller report has been refuted. Intelligence agencies didn't rely on the stupid Steele dossier, and are even the ones who decided it wasn't reliable. No clue what you think "Russiagate" is. It's just a fact that Russia interfered in the election. Trump's own FBI concluded the same thing, in 2020. Without relying on the Steele dossier, the Mueller report laid out some 200 pages of information sharing (collusion) that didn't amount to criminal conspiracy, stated Jr and Kushner weren't charged with criminal conspiracy because it would be too hard to prove they willfully broke the law not because they didn't break the law, and laid out evidence of obstruction. The only people I see blathering about "Russiagate", is you Dore knobs.
Then, like I said, he finally talked about Assange, which was already something Tucker had no problem with. Nothing Jimmy said on that segment challenged any of Tucker's far right views, or his audience's. A total love fest.
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@cringlator Not really. They had the same basic end goal. Differences in method doesn't change the end goal. Plus, if you look at what Marx actually did ... He, and Engels, were members of the SPD, a democratic socialist party, which claimed to be Marxist. They weren't leaders of a violent rebellion. Likewise, for much of Europe. POUM (Workers' Party of Marxist Unification), in Spain, for example, were anti-Stalinists.
On the other side, Nazis were Nazis, whether they were attempting a coup, or whether they were getting elected. The end goal was the same.
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@FerdEdits Oh piss off with the "there are no progressives in Washington" bullshit. Bernie, Justice Dems, and AOC, have done more for M4A in a few years than Dore has in his entire lifetime. Increasing the number of yes votes in congress is the only possible way to get any of those things. The most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in its near 50 year existence. The broader progressive caucus is 30 years old and is about 10 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. Justice Dems are 4 years old and have replaced about a dozen corporate Dems. AOC has been at it 2 years, and has helped replace a few corporate Dems. They're immeasurably more successful than any third party, because you can't even measure how many times better something is than zero ... zero seats, zero bills introduced, zero amendments, zero votes on even a single bill.
Because there's no possible way for third party candidates, like former Green candidate Sinema, to ever become corrupt? You're living in some Puritan fantasy world. You get that "vote blue" works both ways, right? That Dems who voted against progressives in the primaries will vote for them in the general, if they win the primaries. Even if you somehow magically convinced every progressive to vote for your fantasy perfectly perfect party, that would just split the votes enough to let Republicans rule for decades to come, in most places.
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@FerdEdits "M4A" and "a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote" aren't exactly the same thing. Be clear that you want them to try and block legislation to get a piece of performance art, not to actually get M4A, which requires 100+ more yes votes in the house alone.
Also be clear that there are zero extra votes to be gained to the left of progressives, and there is the entire Republican party to try and draw extra votes from, on the right. In a standoff, a bill could be pushed far enough right to pick up enough Republican votes to pass a bill without the squad. On the other hand, it's absolutely impossible to pass a bill without the likes of Manchin, because of the fact that there are no extra votes to be gained to the left, by pushing a bill left.
It's a numbers game, and adding numbers is how you win the game. Making out like increasing numbers is doing nothing is beyond moronic. It's the only possible way to ever pass any bill. AOC and Bernie are now trying to increase the numbers by one, by adding Nina Turner. Is Dore promoting Turner?
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@FerdEdits Really? A month of Dore videos, and no headlines promoting Nina Turner. How far back do I have to go, exactly? AOC was just campaigning with her, on the ground in Ohio, a week ago, promoting M4A at rallies as well, and Jimmy's lying headline from 2 days ago, "Bernie and squad abandon Medicare4All".
Not trying for what ... trying to actually get M4A, which requires numbers, or trying to get a 100% guaranteed to fail vote? She's actually trying to increase numbers. The $15 minimum vote proved FTVers would do absolutely nothing with a list of no voters, except keep bitching about those who got it to stay in for a round of voting and who voted for it, rather than use it to go after the no voters. There's also already a list of congress members who won't sign onto the M4A bill, during a pandemic, and FTVers just keep bitching about those who did sign onto it, instead of going after the 300+ house members who haven't.
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@DanNorton1 Your hero disliked you anarcho types: "For the record, I shall repeat what I have said many times before: I do not join or endorse any political group or movement. More specifically, I disapprove of, disagree with and have no connection with, the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultaneously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. Anyone offering such a combination confesses his inability to understand either. Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping, whim-worshiping fringe of the collectivist movement, where it properly belongs."
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@DiverDan1000-3 Idiot Dore knob. Jimmy outright made the argument Trump was worse, but promoted him as the better option, because he had a delusional fantasy that a Trump presidency would cause a major progressive backlash. He vastly overestimated the benefits, claiming it would "for sure" lead to progressives taking the house (wrong) and the senate (wrong), in 2018, and the presidency (wrong), in 2020. He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even establishment Republicans would vote against a Trump agenda (wrong), and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong).
In what reality was Trump the "lesser evil", and Jimmy wrong on that count, as well?
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Not only would Trump support Israel just as much, maybe more, but he'd also let Russia do the same thing as Israel, to Ukraine. On top if that, he'd royally screw things up domestically. He has said he wants a pledge of allegiance to Israel to get in the country. He has said he wants to reinstate and expand his Muslim ban. He'd support those red shirt kinds of tactics in NYC. He has said he's going to use the justice system to go after leftist ("First they came for the communists ..."). His Christo-fascists want to take the country back to Puritan times. Etc. Plus, even if you magically got the rest of Democrats to elect a third party presidential candidate, that candidate would be totally impotent, on the Israel issue, because of how much support Israel has in congress. They could easily pass what they want, for Israel, and override any presidential veto. It's a pointless risk, over a single policy.
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Marc Ruffalo The only real "American culture" is a culture of immigration and different cultures coming together to make a new one.
So, did Italians all convert to Protestantism, start drinking tea, not let any of their language or foods seep into the "American culture", and give up constantly letting everyone know they're Italian? Fuck no. Italians didn't assimilate to "American culture", "American culture" absorbed Italians, and parts of their culture, gangsters and all.
That's what makes a melting pot. They melt together and make something new. It's simply racists and bigots who single out groups they don't want to absorb. If there should be zero tolerance in "American culture" changing, then Americans should be putting people in the stocks for kissing in public, stringing up even Quakers for not practicing Christianity properly let alone people practicing different religions, and attacking neighbouring towns/cities for improper conduct. All Americans adopt the culture of the original colonizers, and stick with it.
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@BelowMeGoggle You Dore knobs are such dishonest twits. AOC criticized voting "present" on an important and historical vote, not simply voting "present", in general. Nothing much historical, or significantly important, about voting "present" for a purely defensive system. The Iron Dome doesn't attack Palestinians. So what?
She, and other progressives, have a bill to attach conditions on the annual military aid to Israel. They have an anti anti-BDS laws bill. She actually voted against the State Department appropriation bill, which includes the annual $3.3b in offensive military aid to Israel. It was dishonest of Hinkle to say she voted for it. What she later voted for was the entire government budget, after the appropriation bill was passed, without her. That includes healthcare, education, housing, veteran's benefits, SNAP, SSI, etc., etc., etc. ... things he apparently wanted her to vote against.
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@sachinaraszkiewicz785 JP, and his daughter, are the one who made a mockery of anxiety and depression, with their charlatan bullshit. People find the irony and hypocrisy funny, not the condition itself. Kind of like Rush Limbaugh, with his anti-drug, pro war on drugs, tough on crime, rants, getting hooked on painkillers, and then buying his way out of being convicted.
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There are over 130k truck drivers working in Canada. Those protesting are a very small percentage. Needing an actual passport to cross the border, and needing a vaccine passport to cross the border, have nothing much to do with means of production. Likewise, needing a driver's license, needing insurance, following speed limits, obeying lines, obeying lights, obeying signs, seatbelt laws, etc., have nothing really to do with means of production. A completely worker owned co-op food packing plant, would still have to follow health and safety standards, and whatever other laws that apply.
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@glondokakurswongog3790 Rofl. What a load of crap.
If Dore didn't think he was accomplishing anything, why the hell did he keep bragging about forcethevote trending? If he didn't consider what he was doing as fighting, then why was he doing it? You're making no sense.
He didn't back Bernie in the last election cycle. He backed "Medicare choice" Tulsi. You're spouting bullshit.
If he actually recognized that AOC helped add more M4A yes votes to congress, exactly what you need to do to ever pass the bill, exactly what you'd still need to do even after a guaranteed to fail vote, then he wouldn't make out like she wasn't doing anything. It reduces his own forcethevote "plan" to have a failed vote, and then do nothing.
There was no crime. Pelosi introduced the M4A bill just last session. It died in committees. There was no progressive uprising over it, no mass protests, not even any outrage from Dore himself. It took a single reporter's question to get Biden on record saying he'd veto M4A. Plenty of corporate Dems and Republicans just said they were opposed to it, during their campaigns. Every new session, you get a new list of names of those who don't sign onto the bill. There's no need to threaten to paralyze the house, to get a list of Dems to primary, or Republicans to run against. You've already got a list of some 300+ names. Where were the 100+ viable pro-M4A candidates, that Jimmy has laying around, in the election that just took place? Why didn't he pull them out and run them?
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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Then so should anyone supporting Likud.
Likud was founded by Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun terrorist group, murderer of civilian Palestinian men, women, and children, murderer of Palestinian Jews (who didn't support Zionism), and bomber of the King David Hotel. Israelis elected that terrorist as their PM. Israelis still celebrate those terrorists, as "heroes", to this day.
Likud was also founded by Ariel Sharon, war criminal, who massacred Palestinian villages.
Likud's original platform, "between the sea and the Jordan" ...
"The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."
There is zero indication that Likud, Netanyahu, isn't still working towards that goal, with the endless colonization of Palestine territories.
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@johnsmith92704 What the f*ck does Assange actually have to do with left wing policies? Right wingers already like WikiLeaks, more than the left probably. They're already fine with pardoning anyone they like, even war criminals, crooks, and whatnot. They obviously weren't moved to any serious effort to get Trump to pardon him.
Dore mostly just agrees with Tucker, when he goes on. Before getting to Assange, Dore agreed with Tucker about Trump getting booted from social media, without once reminding capitalists that there's no such thing as free speech on someone else's private property and that you get free speech rights with public ownership ... without once reminding right wing psychos that things like incitement and defamation aren't even protected speech anyway. And, this being right before the second, well deserved, impeachment, Dore then let all the right wing nuts know that he agreed with them that the first impeachment was all hooey, helping to fuel the idea that the second one would be, as well.
There's zero evidence that Dore is changing any significant numbers of right wing minds. I run across plenty of right wing trolls, that just use Dore bullshit against progressives to support their own right wing bullshit.
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Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, tried to warn Americans. Their opinion of the founders of Likud: "Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Yeah, it is the vast majority of congress that's to blame, as well, and has been for decades. MR has also been arguing not to support Israel, for years, well before Biden.
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@mroctober3583 He promoted Trump as better than Clinton. He promoted Stein as having a chance. If he convinced anyone in any 2016 swing state to vote Trump, vote Stein, or to not vote at all, then he helped the lunatic, that has let thousands of Americans die, get elected. Throughout the pandemic, he has basically been running constant attack ads against Trump's only viable opponent, again not seeming to care if the lunatic wins and even more people die.
He's attacking the credibility of the woman whose progressive PAC just helped get more pro-M4A progressives elected to congress (exactly the thing you're going to have to do after the vote fails anyway), going against the DCCC. Corporate Dems have openly stated that's why she was punished and not given the committee seat she wanted. She's punching and getting punched, and Dore knob throws in a kick, accusing her of being a "shill" and "wimp".
He doesn't care if he undermines progressive politicians, because he's promoting a People's Party, which would be starting from scratch, and wouldn't get you enough seats to pass M4A for decades, if ever.
If Dore has 100 pro-M4A progressive candidates in his back pocket, why didn't he pull them out for the election? If he and Briahna want pro-M4A protests, then why haven't they been coordinating with the DSA's M4A rallies, all along? You know ... before the election that just fucking happened. He was more worried about shit Obama (no longer a politician) was saying, or Colbert crying. Dore has his own healthcare, and doesn't give a crap if he tears everything and everyone down to start over.
Nothing to lose? What if corporate Dems just keep putting Pelosi back as their speaker candidate over and over again, or even someone to the right of her? Do you just keep paralyzing the house, as they blame progressives for not being able to pass minimum wage, or student debt relief, or lowering social security, or whatever else people just voted for? Jimmy, himself, just argued that corporate Dems would rather lose to Republicans than work with progressives. The dimwit didn't recognize that that's an argument against his own strategy because, if that's really true, then that gives progressives less leverage, and means they could orchestrate something even worse with Republicans, and blame progressives.
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Israel is the one operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, dumb dumb. They control the borders, the airspace, the ports, electricity, water, goods going in and out, plus Bibi even controls the flow of money from Qatar, having the ability to turn it off and on, when he wants, and has a number of times.
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@ToxicAudri The details of how a UBI is paid for is important, and he kept saying that giant corporations would pay into it, and kept comparing his dividend to the Alaskan dividend, which is entirely paid for by oil companies. The thing is that a VAT is specifically designed to NOT tax businesses in order to avoid double taxation (which would be worse anyway). Yang even posted a link to a pass through rate study that he didn't grasp, or lied about. What it actually showed was a near 100% pass through on standard rated goods and services. It was only by adding lesser rated and zero rated goods and services that the pass through rate dropped. Yang claimed that indicated businesses were paying for a large portion of the tax, when it actually meant that a large portion had less tax or no tax (zero rated are staples that people buy most). The final consumer was still paying the entire VAT.
Without corporations paying for it, or even into it, then all they get is the benefit of extra trillions being spent. Instead of taxing Amazon, as Yang said, they would make extra tens of billions a year, which would make Bezos extra billions a year. He could buy a brand new $500m yacht, every year, pay $50m in VAT, and still have extra billions left over. Also, in a future that's increasingly automated, you can't have increasingly unemployed consumers paying for their own UBI. You need corporations to pay the people, like the Alaskan dividend he kept comparing his to, like he kept saying it should be. His words didn't match his actual plan.
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@justanotherguy1794 Progressive house members did get the $15 minimum to stay in the covid relief bill, when it was first talked about taking it out because it might not get by senate rules, and it passed the house. People were already griping that the covid relief didn't go out the day after Biden was inaugurated. How many times should the bill have bounced back and forth between the house and senate? Who in the senate was going to suddenly change their minds?
AOC did use her platform and PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A candidates, helped add a few more M4A yes votes to congress, and helped remove a few more corporate Dems. A guaranteed to fail vote, isn't itself M4A. Dore uses fake support percentages for how wildly popular he claims M4A is. If you actually look at the Pew survey he referred to, it's only 54% of Dems that want all out M4A, and only 36% of Americans. There wouldn't have been some massive uprising over it failing to pass. Half of congress just got done an election cycle, and pretty much every voter knew where their candidates stood on healthcare, when they voted.
She also campaigned for Bernie and M4A, while Jimmy was pushing Tulsi and "Medicare choice". Jimmy is also the guy who didn't give two shits if 10m of the poorest Americans lost their Medicaid expansion, and didn't care to add 40m older Americans to Medicare. He also doesn't care if he leads people down the third party route that hasn't won the most popular third party a single seat in congress in 50 years. What he promotes doesn't actually indicate that he cares if anyone gets healthcare coverage anytime soon.
The broader progressive caucus is some 10-15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. I think people should stick with the Justice Dem approach, until they're the majority, can pick the party speaker candidate, can control the house if still the house majority, and then see what they do. I think giving up on them, when it's that close, to go some decades long route that doesn't get you even a single vote for or against even a single bill because you don't have a seat isn't a winning strategy.
Technically, even Bernie is a centrist, out in the real world, but I think he, and a number of other progressives, are genuine. Might not always agree on tactics though, and disagreeing on a single secondary tactic shouldn't be the end all and be all of the relationship, or support.
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@SMP1993 There's math involved. There are zero extra votes to try and draw from to the left of progressives. It is absolutely impossible to pass a bill without Manchin. On the other end, there is the entire Republican party to try and draw votes from. It is entirely possible to pass a bill without Bernie, by picking up a single Republican vote.
In a stand off, between both ends of the party, a bill would more likely be amended to the right, than the left. The bill would have to be "must pass" to Manchin, to have any leverage. If he doesn't give a crap if it dies, then you've got zero leverage, as we've seen. And, if he can get enough Republicans on board, by making concessions to them, then he doesn't need your votes, as we've seen.
What's a bill that Manchin considered "must pass", that required squad votes to pass?
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@alabamaman9476 Never said anything about northern and southern, or anything about states. I said red counties vs blue counties and vaccinated vs unvaccinated. All of those things are in every state. If the covid rate is lower in the south, due to weather, it's still the redder counties and unvaccinated dying at higher rates, there. If the covid rate is higher in the north, due to weather, it's still the redder counties and unvaccinated dying at higher rates, there. Texas is in the south and they just put out a report that's in line with the national situation, 85% of deaths are unvaccinated. So, in all the battleground purplish districts, if covid is killing off Republican voters 8 to 2, for the next year, that increases the odds of Dems coming out on top.
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@neon-kitty Having a progressive on the show doesn't make it a progressive show. Stopped watching before the cast switch. There was less debate on Rising than there was on Crossfire or Hannity and Combes. Saagar, who's supposedly an anti-Trump conservative, regularly softened just how bad Trump is, making it seem like Trump is just a little over the top and not a batshit crazy fascist. Likewise, for Trump's cult, who he made out like they were just being a little silly. And, I don't recall him ever leading Republicans down a path towards not voting for Trump.
Krystal, on the other hand, was really trashing Biden (Trump's only remaining viable opponent) and telling progressives that they don't owe Biden their vote.
What's the overall message, if it says Trump isn't all that bad, Biden is bad, don't stop voting Republican, but possibly stop voting Democrat?
Or, even in the primaries, with the repeated fawning over Yang (who would have had money flowing to the very top faster than ever before, because he's completely ignorant, or completely dishonest, as to how a VAT actually works) ... Bernie had a really tough fight in 2016, and lost. That was running as the only progressive, and getting all the progressive votes. Going into the 2020 primaries, everyone should have known that every single vote taken away from him would be extremely important, and likely help produce another progressive loss. But, people still peddled multiple other "progressives". That kind of stuff is all simply a math problem. If you're taking a vote away from the most competitive progressive, then you're lowering his odds of winning, which lowers the odds of a progressive winning, at all.
I started feeling like Krystal and Saagar were a gateway down a path that ends with Dore and a Boogaloo, and their comment section was reflecting that more and more.
Kim Iverson went batshit crazy during covid. To normalize her is insane. Her moronic, look how great Sweden is doing (regularly the worst country in Europe, at the time), covid will end with warm weather, and generally shitty covid attitude is likely what killed one of her own staff, but she powered on.
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@aheroictaxidriver3180 Our brains, and the thoughts they produce, objectively exist. A "problem" may be subjective (based on personal feelings, biases, likes/dislikes, etc.), but our subjective thoughts objectively exist. We have instruments, that can map where objectively existing thoughts and feelings are produced in the brain. There's no magic, or spirits ... no "mystical" gobbledygook ... needed. Everything that's subjectivity based isn't "mystical". People's values objectively exist ... what they value is subjective ... and, if they aren't appealing to magic and spirits, or whatnot, then there's nothing "mystical" about it. But, I get how you might think that that brain of yours having a thought is pure magic.
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@dalekrenegade2596 Yeah, and the lack of self awareness, in these people is astounding. They're hanging on every word of a loudmouth grifter; who slanders anyone who disagrees with him, including others on his side; who sows distrust in all media, healthcare professionals, scientists, and authorities, etc., that contradict his narrative; who throws henchmen (anonymous producers) under the bus, if wrongdoing is unearthed; ... they're very much like Trumpists, even the projecting onto others, that it's you that's the sheep, and not them.
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@loverainthunder You both praised one woman for getting a shot at a committee seat, and criticized another woman for getting a shot at the exact same committee seat. That's incoherent. It makes zero sense. They both got exactly the same thing from Pelosi, a nomination as a candidate for the spot. And it wasn't "magic" that lost AOC the vote. A couple voters publicly stated they voted against her because she backed progressives against them in the primaries ... for fighting against them. Then you nimrods come along, and slander her, pretending she's not fighting them.
She was just fighting them again, by backing Nina, by being on the ground campaigning for her, by promoting M4A, and fighting against the DNC backed candidate to try and add another M4A advocate to congress. Dore publicly abandoned Nina, and promoted never voting for anyone running as a Democrat ever again. He abandoned adding another M4A advocate to congress. He's a lying grifter, who doesn't actually care if anyone ever gets healthcare coverage. Anyone defending him doesn't care either. Thankfully, he's just a narcissist with delusions of grandeur, and only actually represents a few hundred thousand progressive voters, who vote third party.
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@lespaulismore4538 Not released and "sealed" are two different things. Obama did not go out of his way to seal his school records. Steering you back on track, when you go off the rails, doesn't equate to defending anything, and there's nothing to defend, because you were spouting bullshit. Tsk, tsk.
So, now that we're done with your irrelevant whataboutObama, the point is that a narcissistic braggart wouldn't threaten to sue people to hide his awesomeness. In fact, they might "accidentally" leak how awesome they are, themselves.
Threatening to sue even proves he's an idiot, because they can't release his records without his permission anyway. It's like him making doctors, who are already bound by doctor patient confidentiality, to sign NDAs. It's just evidence there's something bad he doesn't want people to see.
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@wenlisman Didn't all that nationalism cause hundreds of years worth of wars? The "Brits", Britons, actually ended up being ruled by Romans, Angles, Saxons, Norsemen, and then by French Normans, who were themselves formerly Norsemen. The "Scots" were Irish who came to rule over the Picts. The "French" Franks were a Germanic tribe, who conquered lands from Romans, who had conquered lands from Gauls. Etc. Etc. Etc.
And, none of all that fighting over, and drawing up of arbitrary borders, by religious fanatics of mixed ethnicities and cultures, that didn't keep much of anything original and seperate, has little to do with later decisions about forms of government. It was actually the conquest of Byzantine culture, sending many west, and bringing their ancient Greek philosophy with them, that led to the enlightenment, and more modern forms of government. It was the loss of a "European" nation, and the mixing of their culture and ancient writings, with others, that led down the path towards modern democracies.
Under normal circumstances, isn't it better to have a freer and more open border, like a Nordic Passport Union, a Schengen Area, etc.?
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@aemonbane1398 You have mistaken Jimmy's argument. He did consider Trump worse, outright called him a raving fascist. Dore's stupid argument was that a Trump presidency would result in a massive progressive backlash. He vastly overestimated the benefits, claiming that it would "for sure" lead to progressives taking the house (nope) and senate (nope), in 2018, and the presidency (nope), in 2020. He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republican lawmakers would join the left in voting against the Trump agenda (nope), rather than follow him into fascism (nope, they did), and when debating Sam, claimed Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong again). He's a loon, and an idiot, that doesn't care if other people's suffering is increased, for however many years it takes to fulfill his fantasy.
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@seanhovan7426 Rofl. Trump (the government) convinced tens of millions of idiots not to believe any media, any judges, any lawyers, any law enforcement, any intelligence agencies, any scientists, any doctors, any nurses ... anybody ... even to not believe their own lying eyes, if they contradicted Supreme Leader Trumpty Dumpty (the government). The CDC, on the other hand, are an organization of doctors and scientists, who also gather data from other doctors and scientists around the world.
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@theciakilledjfk5973 You're making a false equivalency, between two different kinds of votes.
M4A is about 100 votes short in the house alone. There wouldn't be much of a performance, because debating, calling witnesses, etc., happens during committees. If you want to somehow dodge committees for a straight up floor vote, all you'd get is house members speaking for a few min each, without any fact checking, debate, and 3/4 of the few min speeches being anti-M4A.
The impeachment passed the house, and the performance happened during the senate trial, where the case is actually presented and argued. And they even got some Republicans to vote for impeachment, along with all Dems.
More Americans were in favor of impeachment than are for all out M4A.
Nothing in your post covered that there's more votes to be won, or gained, on the right, if push comes to shove. You're blaming progressives for Biden being a corporate Dem? Wasn't that common knowledge?
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@theciakilledjfk5973 The party's speaker candidate is picked by the Dem caucus, where progressives are a minority, and it's a straight up majority vote. Progressives didn't actually have the power to threaten the speakership. All they had the power to do was to paralyze the house, by no speaker candidate winning. The corporate Dem majority could keep picking Pelosi over and over, if they wanted. How long do you think it would have been politically advantageous to paralyze the house for, during a pandemic?
For what, exactly? Pelosi introduced M4A to congress just last session, where it died in committees, where 90% of bills die. You know, those committees that Dore knob doesn't think are important. And, a speaker, alone, can't even force a bill through committees to the floor. It takes a petition signed by the majority of congress.
You also get a brand new list of names of congresspeople who won't cosign the bills, each new session, that need converting or replacing (AOC just helped replace a few). If you, or Dore, had 100+ viable pro-M4A candidates sitting in your back pockets, why didn't you run them in the election cycle that just happened?
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@theciakilledjfk5973 Next to nobody outside of some progressive circles (where everyone is already pro-M4A) were talking about Jimmy Dore, or FTV. Something like 20 people showed up for the DC FTV rally. Bernie still has more Twitter followers. Bernie, and his M4A, who she used her platform to campaign for, while Dore knob was backing Tulsi and her "Medicare choice". She also used her platform and PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A progressives. The pandemic had started before the primaries were over. Guess what? The M4A candidate didn't get elected, and no amount of DNC fuckery could have screwed Bernie, if the masses had voted for him. Most of those other pro-M4A candidates didn't make it through the primaries, either. Only a few did. Americans just got finished ranking how important M4A was to them. They went with the idjit who said he'd veto it, if it somehow passed both the house and senate. They went with mostly anti-M4A corporate Dem and Rep congress members, yet again.
Dore had this fantasy, in 2016, where a Trump presidency would be better for progressives than a Clinton presidency. It was going to lead to some massive progressive wave that would, "for sure", lead to progressives taking the house and senate in 2018, and a progressive president in 2020. None of it happened. He vastly overestimated the benefits and vastly underestimated the risks. Even with the benefit of hindsight, knowing full well that people started complaining about not getting covid relief fast enough (including, I think, Jimmy Dore), you think they would have been impressed with paralyzing the house for some amount of time, to not actually get them M4A, but simply to get a guaranteed to fail vote?
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@theciakilledjfk5973 Speaking of gullible, you're being taken for a ride by a grifter who didn't care if 10m of the poorest Americans lost their Medicaid expansion, didn't care to try and add 40m older Americans to Medicare, and yet passes himself off as the one true champion of healthcare. He doesn't care if he leads people down the third party route, that hasn't won the most popular third party a single seat in congress in 50 years. There's no indication he actually cares if anyone gets healthcare anytime soon, other than his gums flapping. The actions he promotes taking won't get M4A in the next century.
AOC actually helped add a few more M4A yes votes to congress, the very thing you need to do to ever pass the bill, the very thing you would still need to do even after a guaranteed to fail vote. House representatives don't have to get involved in other districts' elections. That's beyond the job parameters. She has proven that she actually takes action, and doesn't just flap her gums, like dumbass Dore. She has proven that she fights against corporate Dems, and doesn't just flap her gums, like dumbass Dore.
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@curiosityl.6261 Hinkle blathered a bunch of standard Dore knob bullshit, is all he did.
The Capitol Hill police bill was heavily amended in the senate and sent back to the house. AOC voted no on the final version of the bill.
AOC had just backed progressives in purple districts, that got creamed in the primaries, and the Dems who beat them managed to also beat the Republican. This midterm is going to be a helluva fight to try and hang on to the majority. Whatever leverage progressives have, completely evaporates, if Republicans win the majority. Go ahead and be pissed, if you think AOC broke a promise, but trying to retain the majority is smart.
The FTV "plan", out of Jimmy's mouth, was for 15 progressives to simply "withhold their votes" or "not vote" for Pelosi. He never mentioned a need to cast protest votes. That implies abstaining. And, he made it very clear that he thought it was impossible for McCarthy to win, unless Democrats actually voted for him, so would see no problem with abstaining. 15 progressives abstaining would have handed the speakership to McCarthy.
FTV was also about a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote. It doesn't actually move you any closer to being able to pass the bill. The only possible way to ever pass the bill is to get enough yes votes in congress, which makes adding yes votes to congress the most important thing. Justice Dems, and AOC, have helped to add more M4A yes votes to congress. AOC was fighting to add another, in Nina Turner, campaigning on the ground for her. Dore, on the other hand, abandoned Nina Turner ... abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress.
Progressives did get the $15 to stay in for a round of voting. It actually passed the house (M4A didn't have a shot in hell), and also got a senate vote. Dore knobs have done nothing with those lists of no voters, and just continue to slander those who voted for it.
Drone strikes have been reduced to almost nothing. That's one thing Dore knobs should be praising Biden for. Instead they keep whining. All, or nothing.
AOC, and other progressives have a bill trying to put conditions on the annual military aid to Israel. They have an anti anti-BDS laws bill. So she voted to rearm a purely defensive Iron Dome. So what?
Just a lot of much ado about nothing.
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@michaels8620 How does forcing a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote, speed up anything? Justice Dems, AOC, and Bernie, have been working on adding more yes votes to congress. Getting enough yes votes in congress is literally the only possible way to ever pass the bill.
Also, getting a president in place, that wouldn't veto the bill, moves you closer to being able to pass it. Dore outright backed someone campaigning against the M4A candidate, someone who said M4A was unAmerican. Sitting on the sidelines, in some irrelevant third party, possibly even giving up yes votes in congress, by abandoning those people, gets you nowhere, and might even move you further away. The most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. That's even less than an increment. Abandoning Nina Turner, abandoning adding another M4A yes vote to congress, gets you no closer.
What are Dore, or this guy, proposing that actually gets you closer to being able to pass it? All corporate Dems have to do is amend a bill to the right, make some concessions to the less crazy Republicans, and get enough onboard to pass things without needing squad votes. On the flip side, there's no way to pick up extra votes to the left of progressives, if you lose too many conservative Dem votes on the right wing end of the party.
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@michaels8620 Yeah, a C-SPAN covered floor vote ... totally samesies as thousands of people marching down a highway, covered by all media. Women's suffrage had a first vote to see how close they were to a supermajority, because the parties weren't as partisan, at the time, and they weren't sure how far off they were. They literally held back the bill, the next session, because they didn't think they had the supermajority yet, and saw absolutely no point in having a guaranteed to fail vote. Where are you getting this repeatedly having failed votes being beneficial from? The $15 got a vote, and even passed the house to get a senate vote. Dore knobs argue it was useless, and just keep bitching about those who got it to stay in for a round of voting and voted for it. How did getting a vote help?
Isn't turning it into a hill to die on, and to slander M4A's most ardent congressional supporters, part of what turned it stupid? FTV was dead in the water as soon as Dore, and his knobs, used it to slander AOC, and the vast majority of progressives, which was almost right out of the gate. Yeah, Dore killed his own plan, by being a moron. That's the reason you try to detach the man from his own plan, because he's too hard to defend. If he was easy to defend, there'd be no issue with keeping him attached to his own plan. Don't you think he destroyed any chance of getting any of the 15 progressives he named, on board, the moment he started slandering the first one?
Any leverage Hinkle believes the squad has entirely depends on Dems being the majority of the house. This midterm will be a helluva fight to try and keep that majority, especially in those more conservative purple districts. Is there some benefit to progressives becoming a minority within a minority, and having Republicans win the majority?
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@seanhovan7426 No. You're just a dimwit who doesn't grasp when Biden gives literal numbers, indicating vaccines aren't 100%, and then talks virtually, figuratively.
"Ten thousand people have recently died; 9,950 of them, thereabouts, are people who hadn’t been vaccinated.
This is a simple, basic proposition. If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you are not going to die."
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Dore vastly overestimated the benefits of a Trump presidency, claiming it would bring about a massive progressive backlash that would lead to progressives "for sure" taking the house (didn't happen) and the senate (didn't happen), in 2018, and the presidency (didn't happen), in 2020. He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republicans would vote against a Trump agenda (didn't happen), wouldn't follow him into all out fascism (did happen), and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats (did happen) was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (hasn't happened yet).
Also, a reminder that Trump was running on tossing 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion, while Clinton was running on adding 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion, and Dore is making out like he's the one true champion of healthcare, when he promoted the former as the better option.
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@Name-jw4sj To be honest, it's hard to tell at this point, because you've started arguing against yourself along the way. When someone else pointed out the opposition's base expanded more than Trump's, you argued that the opposition's base didn't expand, they had always been opposed, but they just didn't vote before. Then, when I lay out that Trump's base didn't expand, they just didn't vote before, you argued against yourself, by defining the "base" as those who vote, which makes you then arguing that the opposition's "base" did expand.
As I pointed out, about the same percentage of the population (not just voters) approved of him at the start and finish. More of those people simply voted in 2020 vs 2016. He may have fired his base up, to get more out to vote, but his style, and rhetoric, and yes who he has attacked, fired up more people that wanted him gone, and got even more of them out to vote. He even got a large percentage of those who voted third party in 2016 to vote for the opposition, people wanted him gone so badly.
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@sullen2420 Rofl. Those people's views are the topic of the video, ffs, and you mention him in your op. You said he's right, but he thinks they have leverage, which makes his argument moronic.
She just got done backing progressives in some of those same conservative districts and they got creamed, but the more conservative Dem beat the Republican. Making out like fascists, who just tried to overthrow the democratic process to keep Dumpty on as an unelected dictator, are samesies as corporate Dems, is beyond moronic. Making out like people who all voted against another round of covid stimulus and against the $15 are samesies as those who voted for those, is beyond moronic. Making out like those who have tried to toss 10+m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion, dozens of times, are samesies as those who aren't doing that, is beyond moronic. Being in neutral might suck, but going in reverse is worse. Progressives have better odds in more solidly blue districts, taking out corporate Dems there. Meanwhile, Republicans not having the majority is better all around. Whatever, don't give a shit if Republicans rule, then. That's the same Dore knob mentality that didn't care if Trump beat Clinton.
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@fullyfb3847 Is that the same "freedom loving right" that was okay with the actual government (head of government) firing, or threatening to fire, anyone who contradicted him? That was okay with that same head of government saying people should be fired for kneeling? That was okay with the actual government making anti-BDS laws? That was okay with the actual government making it harder, or more dangerous, to protest? That still has a government agency protecting their delicate conservative sensibilities from naughty words and nipples? Conservative religious types have been cancelling things and people for millennia, and are far more likely to use the authorities to do it.
So, a far right loon, like Thiel, or you, supporting Joe, isn't evidence he's acceptable to right wing loons? "Freedom loving" Thiel is literally trying to purge the party of non Trumpists.
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@stopwritingthatreplyjohnat6638 No, you don't know much about the Boogaloos. That guy Dore had on praised Kyle Rittenhouse. They're gun loving right wing nuts, who will shoot you for even thinking of taxing them, once you hand in hand help them topple the authority. Dore ditched the people who want M4A over a tactics disagreement, slandered the hell out of them for weeks as "fakes", "frauds", "sellouts", etc., writing them off as allies. Then he immediately turned around and presented someone who disagrees on almost everything as a potential ally. He's insane. You are likely insane, as well, if you can't see it.
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@sergeikhripun You don't know what a "supermajority" is. Democrats do not currently have a supermajority, and they had one in 2009, for all of a few months, if, and only if, you count independent, former Republican, Joe Lieberman, as an actual Democrat.
A "supermajority" is not having a majority in the house, senate, and having the presidency. A "supermajority" is having a 2/3, filibuster proof, majority, you dimwitted Dore knob.
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@sergeikhripun Canada's healthcare system, btw, is more like Medicaid for all, rather than Medicare for all. Each province runs their healthcare and the federal government cost shares. Newsom adding more and more people to Medi-Cal is going in that direction.
You'd have to be a complete and utter moron, if you think Trump, and Republicans, wanting to toss 10+m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion, is samesies. Or, that all the Republican states which turned down Medicaid expansion, for their citizens, are samesies.
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@clintholmes2061 Nothing you blathered refutes that not partisan, and not a hack, are two different things.
Sam criticizes Biden, and other corporate Dems, all the time, dimwit. It's your hack who would only report on the Biden scandal, because he's a grifter, who panders to the far right.
Promoting progressives vote third party benefits corporate Dems and Republicans. Promoting Trump as the better option than Clinton or Biden, benefits Republicans. Promoting "extreme free market" Boogaloo psychos as allies, benefits the far right extremists. Spreading covid and vaccine misinformation panders to far right anti-vax nutters. Promoting abandoning Nina Turner benefits her DNC backed corporate Dem opponent. Promoting not voting for Bernie benefits his corporate Dem opponent. Slandering progressives that have done more for M4A in a few years than he has in his entire lifetime, benefits corporate Dems and Republicans.
None of the directions Jimmy proposes taking benefits the left. He's a grifter, claiming to be selling you something beneficial, but is actually selling you something completely useless, or even harmful.
Head on off to right wing Rumble, with "real" leftists, like Dore and Greenwald.
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Couldn't even make it through your first paragraph. It was a steaming pile of horse shit.
Firstly, you don't get to use Palestinian Jews as a place holder, for the "return", after 1700 years, of hundreds of thousands of people from Russia and Europe. They weren't holding a Jewish nation. They were Palestinians, that were Jews. And, they actually opposed Zionism. The Zionist terrorist groups, Irgun and Lehi, targeted them, right alongside their Palestinian brothers and sisters.
I don't get to round up people from the Americas, whose ancestors left England hundreds of years ago, "go back", claim half of England, and cleanse "our" half of its current inhabitants. If I did, it would be colonialism. Even if I did have a distant cousin living there, that said it was okay, it would still be colonialism. These are batshit crazy, absolutely moronic, arguments.
You're also absolutely lying, about the land purchases. There was a massive 1945 land and peoples survey. It found that the Jews owned a majority of the land in no district. Not even close. Non Jews owned a majority in every district except 4, and owned a plurality in 3 of those (public being the 3rd owner), and second to publicly owned in only 1 district. Jews were a majority nowhere. To have a Jewish majority state would require cleansing the lands of the actual non Jewish majority.
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@TheGUDL716 He's not saying he's going to close existing loopholes. He's dishonestly claiming the VAT doesn't have loopholes and will force them to "pay their fair share". The loophole to avoid actually paying any tax is built right in to a VAT system, because they get paid back for VAT input.
His projected revenue from the VAT was based on the entire economy, not simply yachts and very high end items. He has since said he'd exempt staples, but that's just basic groceries, some household items, and possibly kids clothes. That doesn't include the electric bill, phone bill, internet bill, cable bill, toys, games, non-staple snacks and pop, and all kinds of things that will still affect poor people's lives.
Some people are already getting $1000+ in assistance Yang doesn't have stack with UBI. The UBI won't benefit them at all but they'll still have to pay VAT on some items.
The upper middle class and lower end rich, whose incomes won't jump with massive consumer spending and stocks going up, like doctors and lawyers, will pay in more than they get out. Someone like Bezos is going to make billions more than he pays in with Yang's plan.
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The issue is bigger than just one guy. The history of Likud is the history of Revisionist Zionism, which is now over 100 years old, and which has always had the stated goal to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories, plus claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is also an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. They have been working towards that goal, for decades now. The US has been vetoing Security Council resolutions against Israel, and supplying them with weapons, for decades now.
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@GavinGill07 Nah, our Liberals are centre-right, our NDP are centre-left, and the PC are right. In the US, many Democrats are about the same as our PCs. Some about the same as our Liberals. A few new ones and Bernie are like our NDP. The US Republicans and Libertarians are way right.
There really are no far left politicians or political parties operating in the developed world. Far left would be complete economic equality. Sure, some politicians promote having less disparity, but none are promoting total equality. Far right, on the other hand, would be zero government interference in economy, business, little to no taxes (except for a legal system and defense, which Ayn Rand was okay taxing for), allowing for whatever inequality capitalism dishes out. Plenty of US politicians promote that.
You're right though, that the majority of Americans now seem to be centre-left, since polls show the majority now supporting Medicare for all, taxing the wealthy, etc. The US is only now recovering from McCarthyism and the Cold War, which shifted their politics totally right of centre.
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@pittiesplus4108 If you're actually pro-vaccine, you'd recognise you're an anecdote, and although you might state what you went through, you'd make sure everyone listening knew you're an outlier. Or, when you're talking about other possible negative side effects, like tinnitus, don't dishonestly pretend like it's a side effect of all vaccines, when it is just J&J, and maybe also report that there are thousands of more cases of tinnitus reported by those with covid. Or, when you and your buddy Max are dishonestly misrepresenting the UK's completely socialized healthcare system, like all good "lefties" do, and myocarditis, maybe also mention that youth are 6-8x more likely to get myocarditis from covid, that viruses are the leading cause of myocarditis.
No clue how you can listen to someone spewing only negative crap about vaccines, for 15 min, and come away thinking they made a pro-vaccine video.
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@bruno.6610 1. By having the government pay for privatized services, turning public tax dollars into private profits.
2. By not having them pay for things they benefit most from. For example, if Apple shipped a million phones from China, and I buy one, they have benefited a million times more than me from protected shipping lanes. If a transport truck had brought 10k phones to my area, they benefited 10000x more than me for the road. Etc. Etc. Republicans don't like consumption taxes, when they're doing the consuming. That's having the public pay for things corporations benefit most from.
3. Not necessarily rich, but their base ... subsidizing farmers (including giant corporate run farms). Pretty sure oil companies get subsidies, as well.
4. You can play semantics, saying that tax breaks and loopholes are letting them keep their own money, but if that same government is setting a yearly budget, saying this is what the government needs to operate, but then let's them get away with not paying, or paying little, then everyone else has to put in more, to compensate. That is having the public pay for their government, for them. If Amazon really paid zero federal taxes, then they're getting benefits they didn't pay for.
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On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, Israel was itself founded on terrorism, by groups like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets, murdering civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murder, who bombed the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". They literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated. Netanyahu even promoted, and helped fund, Hamas, to weaken the Palestinian Authority, and avoid peace.
Israel is the terrorist nation.
Rivlin hosts 90th anniversary of founding Irgun Zvai Leumi (Etzel)
By GREER FAY CASHMAN Published: MARCH 1, 2021
"President Reuven Rivlin on Monday hosted the 90th anniversary celebration of Irgun Zvai Leumi, generally known by its Hebrew acronym of Etzel."
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@c.a.t.732 "handed it over"
Israel controls the borders, the airspace, the ports, the electricity, the water, the vast majority of what goes in and out, and Bibi even controlled the purse strings. He could stop and start the flow of money from Qatar, whenever he wanted. All while also still ethnic cleansing and colonizing the Palestinians of the West Bank, which Palestinians of Gaza still care about. In no reality did they "hand it over".
They pulled out a colony. You don't actually have to colonize to occupy. Nazis didn't actually live in the Warsaw ghetto. All the Palestine territories are still considered occupied, by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC.
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No one has argued the US invented slavery. No one has argued slavery didn't, or doesn't, exist outside the US. No one has argued slavery no longer exists. Crowder is arguing against strawmen of his own making, on all those points.
As for his claim that slavery has never been racially motivated, that's a blatant lie. Western chattel slavery was developed around African slaves, and was different from other types of slavery. Simply saying "slavery", implying they're all samesies, is nonsense. Other forms of slavery, practiced elsewhere, didn't tend to be lifelong and multigenerational.
Black Americans, in the early colonies, weren't slaves. They were indentured, like white people. Then, very racially motivated laws, around the colonies, started chipping away at any semblance of rights. At first, they tried being subtle, by making laws against enslaving Christians (all the whites were Christians, while black Africans were not, at the time). When black people started converting, then they dropped all subtlety, and became very race specific. There were laws all across the country, as well as the brief mention in the constitution. There was also the Confederate constitution, which made the racial aspect of slavery extremely clear. There was also another hundred years of racially motivated segregation and Jim Crow laws, against the very same people that had been enslaved, indicating their treatment beforehand had also been racially motivated.
The majority of Confederate state voters were racists, plain and simple. They voted for pro slavery candidates, and against abolitionists. They voted for secessionists, and against unionists. They were willing to kill, and be killed, for the "right" to own, abuse, torture, rape, and even kill, black Americans. They voted for segregationists, and against desegregationists. They were majority hardcore racists, for centuries, on a massive scale. Anyone who thinks that all suddenly went away, in 50 years, is a complete and utter moron, or a grifter.
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@marymackey4518 Government negotiated under $20 prices on vaccines, and giving them out for free, is like a tiny slice of universal healthcare. Not getting vaccinated and having to resort to a $2000+ Rogan "kitchen sink" is handing them 100x the money, out of pocket. Being in the hospital and being pumped full of all kinds of drugs, for weeks, even months, hands them even more money. Jimmy peddling Ivermectin, average price $100 for a bottle of 20 pills, as a preventative, is him peddling a more expensive alternative, paid for out of pocket. He's a grifter, selling you the opposite of what he claims to be for.
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@Fuwuzworsh It is absolutely not a strawman, to point out the absolute fact, that even the most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence, the most popular progressive third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its 20 year existence. It is absolutely not a strawman to point out the math of having power in congress and that, as a third party, you could be completely ignored, until you get a majority, if the other two parties work together. You, apparently, have no clue what a "strawman" is.
AOC just used that PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A progressives in the last primaries. She helped add a few more M4A advocates to congress, and helped remove a few more corporate Dems. Some of the progressives she backed got absolutely trounced in very conservative districts, but a conservative Dem did end up winning the general. So, you Dore knobs are upset, that she wants the party to hold those seats in the midterms. I get it ... Dore knobs like Republicans in the majority, and progressives in a minority party.
Wait. On one hand, a Dore argument is that corporate Dems would rather work with, or lose to, Republicans, than they would to work with, or lose to, progressives. On the other hand, a Dore argument is that they'll hate losing to Republicans, so much, that they'll turn more progressive. You realize that that's gibberish, right? Both can't be true.
Just pretend that a hard all or nothing stance got you absolutely nothing, like you wanted.
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@campfiresong Apparently I've seen more of his reasoning, than you. I don't think you've noticed that I haven't said that he didn't say to use it as a talking point to primary corporate Dems. So did BGJ, in the article I just mentioned. That's totally irrelevant to additional things he has, in fact, stated himself or agreed with when other people stated them. You, on the other hand, are denying he gave any other reasoning, and are making excuses for him agreeing with others who gave more reasoning.
And, not only are you a complete bullshitter, but you're an idiot who didn't even grasp my original context. Even his wanting to use it as a talking point to run against corporate Dems, and that it will lead to getting M4A passed, implies he thinks a failed vote will make 100+ viable pro-M4A candidates rise up and run, and the millions, if not tens of millions, more progressive voters needed will rise up and vote for them.
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@Hunter_Brandon Actually, BGJ, and Dore, lied about Dore's plan. The original plan out of Dore's mouth, and for numerous times after, used that same "withhold" wording you're using now, or he'd say "don't vote for". Dore, on his own, never said to cast protest votes. His wording implied abstaining, which would have handed the speakership to McCarthy, because for every 2 empty seats, absentees, and/or abstentions, the threshold needed to win is lowered by 1. If Dore's 15 progressives had abstained, those 15 plus 2 empty seats, would have lowered the threshold needed to win by 8, down to 210. If every other Dem voted Pelosi, she could only get 207, at the time. If every Republican voted McCarthy, he could have gotten 211, and won the vote.
Sam knew where the original plan came from. To say he liked Dore's plan and then didn't like Dore's plan, simply because he didn't like Dore, makes no sense. Are you sure it wasn't because Dore started using it to slander progressives in congress, taking the thing in a whole other direction? Or, because flaws were found?
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@Hunter_Brandon Dore didn't say to cast protest votes. His original plan, to simply "withhold", or "don't vote", would have handed the speakership to McCarthy. The fact that Pelosi ended up winning the speakership with less than 218 votes, and speakers before have won with less than 218 votes, proves that Dore was wrong when he insisted it was impossible for McCarthy to win without 218 votes. His 15 would need to cast protest votes, which Dore wasn't saying to do, or McCarthy would have been speaker.
Even the amended plan, to cast protest votes, wouldn't necessarily be a threat to Pelosi. The broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats shy of being the majority of the party. They don't yet have the numbers to pick a progressive speaker. As long as the corporate Dem majority stuck with her, they could keep choosing Pelosi as the party speaker candidate over, and over, and over. All the 15 would be doing is paralyzing the house ... during a pandemic, meaning no new covid relief, no new unemployment extensions, no new vaccine funding, etc., with everyone blaming them. It could have been a PR nightmare. Plus, moving forward, now that you've openly started an all out civil war within the party, what happens when the progressive caucus does get those 15 more seats and picks the party speaker?
Going third party is nonsensical is what the issue is. The most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. The most popular progressive third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its 20 year existence. But, let's say you magically got enough progressives to vote third party that a progressive puritan party wins the same number number of seats as the current progressive caucus, 97 in the house and 1 senator. What you'd have is a republican plurality in the house, that only needs to work with a handful of the most conservative corporate Dems to pass anything, and could completely ignore the progressive party. You'd have Trump as president, since progressives and Dems would have split their votes between their two candidates. And, you'd have Pence as the tie breaker in the senate, making it a Republican senate. On the other hand, getting only 15 more progressive seats, within the Dem caucus, would make them the majority, would allow them to pick the party speaker candidate, would allow them to set the party agenda and, if also the majority of the house, put forward whatever bills you want and pick committee members.
You know those committees that Dore doesn't consider important. Pelosi actually introduced M4A last session. The parliamentarian sent it to committees, where it died, where 90% of bills die. Pelosi has already reintroduced the bill, this session, and it has again been sent to committees. Instead of pressuring, calling out, or protesting, committee members to take up the bill, what are Dore, and his knobs, doing? Slandering AOC and Bernie, who were just trying to add another progressive vote to congress, in Nina Turner, who Dore abandoned.
The paths Dore takes, or proposes, seem to benefit the far right most.
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Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@Nanofuture87 Rofl. Pretty sure a government doesn't have to pretend a right is natural, just to assign something a right. People believed in the institution of slavery for thousands of years, believing certain people didn't have natural rights. Men didn't accept that women had natural rights for thousands of years. Humans haven't believed that other animals were magically handed natural rights, for thousands of years. There's no actual evidence that people have acted as if they actually believed natural rights exist, for thousands of years. They've cherry picked what they've considered a right and who is deserving of them, to suit their pleasure.
Without an organized society, people have the freedom to do whatever the hell they want, just like any animal. Not all freedoms are good. "Rights" protect freedoms that society, or societies, have deemed good. "Laws" restrict freedoms that society, or societies, have deemed bad.
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@Nanofuture87 What kind of gibberish "analogy" is that? No. It's like saying there are no laws, unless society creates laws, which is just a statement of fact. You're arguing as if an action can break a law, even if the society in question doesn't have a law against said action, which is nonsense.
Again, aside from opinions, there was zero evidence that Libertarians, "classic liberals", or what not, believed others had natural rights. There's no evidence of your centuries of claimed philosophy in action.
Can you, or can't you, claim a piece of property, that already has an apple tree on it? You seem to have to add qualifiers to make your argument. When did the fence come into play? Can you not claim property without building a fence?
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@mellow_badger8585 Not at all upset. You don't have to worry your little Dore knob head, about me.
It is literally not a town square, exactly because the town doesn't own it. They are private social clubs, with tos you need to adhere to, to retain your membership. Private clubs have been revoking memberships, since the dawn of private clubs. Private property owners have been having people removed from their private property since the dawn of private property. You have no right to be on someone else's private property, which means you have no right to be on their private property spewing whatever you want. If Trump walked into some golf club's ladies change room one too many times, as he is prone to do, and got a number of warnings not to, nobody would care if his membership was revoked. He'd also lose access the property, and saying what he wants on the property. That's the way private property works.
Right wingers are the private property pushers. They're the ones that handed giant corporations so much power. They're the ones that made them equivalent to people, and argued they could have their own beliefs. They just get upset when those beliefs don't align with theirs. If Hobby Lobby was doing something anti-women, or Chick-fil-A was doing something anti-gay, they'd have no problem with it. They're only upset because they can't incite insurrections, defame voting machine companies, and spread covid and vaccine misinformation, without consequences. None of those things would necessarily even be protected speech in public, either.
They're fine with outright using the government to make anti-BDS laws. They were fine with the government (head of government) firing, or threatening to fire, people who said things that contradicted him. They're fine with maintaining the FCC to protect their delicate conservative sensibilities from naughty words and nipples. Etc. These aren't people that actually care about free speech, or they'd support the one way to get it. No, they just want to try and regulate things in a way that protects them from consequences.
Rofl. I know the history of the ACA. So, the thing that Republicans didn't introduce to congress as their own policy, that they all voted against, that they have tried to repeal dozens of times over, that Trump ran on repealing, that they are still trying to repeal and are still fighting in court, is "their" big policy for the lower class?
I've never argued that Democrats don't do things to harm the working class. I'm asking about what pro working class policies the right has. The left has things like M4A, the Green New Deal, student loan relief, free college, affordable housing, etc., etc., etc. Sure, a bunch of corporate Dems aren't left enough, and need replacing, to make any of those happen. Upper and lower class has always been the same thing as right and left. The upper class has always managed to get some working class stooges on board, to support their crap that doesn't do anything for the working class. If your best example of "their" policy that helped the working class is something they voted against and have constantly fought against, that's pretty sad.
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@themassage6534 She's an anarchist, dumb dumb. That is totally not authoritarian USSR style communism.
Who's pushing fascism/Nazism?
Fascism: ultra nationalism, anti-socialism, anti-union, anti-feminism, anti-democratic (which gerrymandering, voter suppression, and disenfranchisement all are), backed by big business, backed by religious leaders, pro expanding policing, pro expanding military, pro privatization ... seems to describe the Republican party.
Nazism: fascism on steroids + racism ... seems to describe pricks at "unite the right" rallies waving Confederate and Nazi flags or carrying tiki torches and driving into crowds, military dudes posting Nazi pictures, Richard Spencer and his National Policy Institute, idiots shooting up black churches, mosques, temples, synagogues, Hispanics shopping, etc.
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@anderseckstrand7033 AOC supports M4A. She shares that support for M4A on a platform that reaches 40x more people than Jimmy. On top of her 10m direct audience, a single M4A tweet of hers was retweeted 70 thousand times, compared to Jimmy's best, at under 2k (and that was during this big "trending" moment he thinks he's having). The woman absolutely destroys Jimmy at the only thing he does.
On top of that, she was the one who took out the #2 corporate Dem, she started a progressive PAC to counter the DCCC, she fended off another DCCC backed corporate Dem, her PAC helped get more progressives elected to congress even as corporate Dems lost seats (which is why she was punished, as they mentioned) ... you know, doing the things, getting progressive numbers up, that need doing to actually get M4A to pass. That's the kind of stuff that will have to still happen after Jimmy's vote fails, anyway.
She has done more for the progressive movement in 2 years than Jimmy has in 20. And, Sam, well he did his best in 2016 to convince at least one moron, that Trump was dangerous, and that multiple scotus seats being filled was a possibility and also dangerous, but ... the idiot stuck to his guns, thinking Trump would be better for progressives, would bring about a massive progressive wave leading to a 2020 Warren presidency, that Republicans would even work with the left against the "maniacal fascist", and that the likelihood of Trump filling multiple scotus seats was on par with the moon falling into Lake Michigan. Maybe Sam could have done more, pushed back even harder, but it's not really Sam's fault that the guy was so stupid.
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@Zackariah Schultz If you say things like "I will argue", with zero reference to others arguing the same thing before, then you're presenting the argument as your own, not simply something you agree with. Might be fine for a casual conversation, but not for a lecture, article, or whatever, presenting yourself as a scholar in the field. What ... do you want an entire lecture, or article, quoted here, showing an absence of him giving credit to other philosophers before him? All his lectures and articles? Lol
Criticizing a specific idea is different from fearmongering about people and arguing to discriminate against them. You know the difference between criticizing authoritarian forms of communism and regressively fearmongering against left leaning people of all sorts, like during McCarthyism, right? If you've never heard him present simply "Muslims" as a problem in a "thought" experiment, like with nuclear weapons for example, or never heard him argue to profile Muslims, then why are you so worried about someone you know little about?
Do you also know there's a difference between a book and a religion? Harris has outright said himself that he just recently learned this from Nawaz, which then contradicts a number of his previous arguments, and validates the critics of those previous arguments.
His AI argument has to do with an AI as advanced to us as we are to ants. He argues we'd have to worry about it having different values, that don't align with ours, and it turning against us. But, if you use the same argument he uses for Moral Landscape, then the AI's values should be objectively better than ours, and the AI should objectively have more value than us. Contradicting his own hierarchy argument, which gives us more value than ants, Sam still values humans more than the advanced AI. If his hierarchy was truly objective, then any future AI, or other species, found to be more advanced than us, should objectively have more value than us.
No, simply calling someone else an idiot isn't idiotic. Repeatedly presenting arguments that contradict your other arguments is idiotic. Presenting old ideas as your own is idiotic. Not being able to get any further than what you already say is a given is idiotic. Constantly presenting non-analagous "analogies" is idiotic. Etc.
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@thehappyclam3942 YouTube not liking some word here ...
@thehappyclam3942 Htler was backed by leading German industrialists. He promised his backers that he wouldn't be redistributing wealth. Nzis allied with other far right parties, to form the Harzburg Front. They literally klled off any prominent left leaning members, on the Night of the Long Knives. They went after communists, socialists, and unionists, first, for "illegal socialist activity". Htler blamed Jws for creating socialism, because Marx was of Jewish descent. He blamed the Communist Party for the Reichstag fire, claimed they were "trrorists", outlawed them, and rounded them up.
Mussolini denied the class struggle, that is the very foundation of socialism/communism. He promoted accepting your lot in life, and just working hard, for the betterment of the nation, in an "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country", kind of way. The Nzis were a little more, "For God and country!" ... People simply working together, towards a goal, doesn't equate to communism/socialism.
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@thehappyclam3942 @thehappyclam3942 YouTube not liking some word here ...
@thehappyclam3942 Htler was backed by leading German industrialists. He promised his backers that he wouldn't be redistributing wealth. Nzis allied with other far right parties, to form the Harzburg Front. They literally klled off any prominent left leaning members, on the Night of the Long Knives. They went after communists, socialists, and unionists, first, for "illegal socialist activity". Htler blamed Jws for creating socialism, because Marx was of Jwish descent. He blamed the Communist Party for the Reichstag fire, claimed they were "trrorists", outlawed them, and rounded them up.
Mussolini denied the class struggle, that is the very foundation of socialism/communism. He promoted accepting your lot in life, and just working hard, for the betterment of the nation, in an "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country", kind of way. The Nzis were a little more, "For God and country!" ... People simply working together, towards a goal, doesn't equate to communism/socialism.
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@thehappyclam3942 YouTube not liking some word here ...
@thehappyclam3942 Htler was backed by leading German industrialists. He promised his backers that he wouldn't be redistributing wealth. Nzis allied with other far right parties, to form the Harzburg Front. They literally klled off any prominent left leaning members, on the Night of the Long Knives. They went after cmmunists, scialists, and unionists, first, for "illegal socialist activity". Htler blamed Jws for creating socialism, because Mrx was of Jwish descent. He blamed the Cmmunist Party for the Reichstag fire, claimed they were "trrorists", outlawed them, and rounded them up.
Mssolini denied the class struggle, that is the very foundation of scialism/cmmunism. He promoted accepting your lot in life, and just working hard, for the betterment of the nation, in an "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country", kind of way. The Nzis were a little more, "For God and country!" ... People simply working together, towards a goal, doesn't equate to cmmunism/scialism.
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@thehappyclam3942 @thehappyclam3942 YouTube not liking some word here ...
@thehappyclam3942 Htler was backed by leading German industrialists. He promised his backers that he wouldn't be redistributing wealth. Nzis allied with other far right parties, to form the Harzburg Front. They literally klled off any prominent left leaning members, on the Night of the Long Knives. They went after cmmunists, scialists, and unionists, first, for "illegal socialist activity". Htler blamed Jws for creating socialism, because Mrx was of Jwish descent. He blamed the Cmmunist Party for the Reichstag fire, claimed they were "trrorists", outlawed them, and rounded them up.
Mssolini denied the class struggle, that is the very foundation of scialism/cmmunism. He promoted accepting your lot in life, and just working hard, for the betterment of the nation, in an "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country", kind of way. People simply working together, towards a goal, doesn't equate to cmmunism/scialism.
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@kurtvanderberg7528 I can. To be frank, and honest, you are obviously not very bright. Hearing that, apparently, hurt your feelings, so much, that it rendered you unable to respond to anything else I said. "Dumb" has a definition, and all the evidence you provided indicates that's an objective conclusion.
Not an "ad hominem", though. "You're X" =\= ad hominem. "You're X, therefore you're wrong" = ad hominem. Ironically, "You're a meanie, therefore you've got nothing", is an ad hominem.
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@AvaAdore-wx5gg And what was happening in Greece, and with the Eastern Orthodox church, was the spark of Eastern Orthodox pogroms against Jews in Russia, started by Greeks in Odessa.
"In Odessa, Greeks and Jews were two rival ethnic and economic communities, living side by side. The first Odessa pogrom, in 1821, was linked to the outbreak of the Greek War for Independence, during which the Jews were accused of sympathizing with the Ottoman authorities and of aiding the Turks in killing the Greek Patriarch of Constantinople, Gregory V, dragging his dead body through the streets and finally throwing it into the Bosphorus."
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@michaelbishell7563 Most of their arguments are total nonsense.
Drugs!: Over 90% of drugs are seized at points of entry. Over 80% of drug traffickers are Americans. Little to do with the undocumented crossers.
Replacement!: The vast majority are descended from European Spaniards, Native Americans, or both, and almost all are Christians. Descendants of European colonizers can't really be "replaced" by other European colonizers, or natives.
Space! Jobs!: The same people arguing there are plenty enough jobs and space, for hundreds of thousands of extra unwanted babies per year. Johnson even argued they're needed, to keep SS and Medicare afloat. The same argument would apply to immigrants.
Cheap labor!: Florida decided it's no problem, for children to compete for full time jobs, at 85% of minimum wage.
Crime!: They can spew some anecdotes, but undocumented immigrants commit crimes at half the rate of natural born citizens. The undocumented actually try harder to stay out of trouble, so they aren't deported.
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@jashshah5049 Dimwit. Conservative religious types have been cancelling things and people for millennia. They're the biggest snowflakes on the planet. There's still an FCC protecting their delicate sensibilities from naughty words and nipples. Right wing nationalists promoted firing people for kneeling, because kneeling made them melt. Right wingers, corporate Dems included, have passed anti-bds laws. Giant corporations, run by centibillionaires, aren't even leftists, by a long shot. It's not even comparable how much more right wingers love censorship, and have used the law, military, and violence, to do it, over the years. They just tried to cancel the democratic process, ffs. Push for public ownership, if you want freedom of speech. Actual leftists have been promoting public ownership for a century, and the right have opposed it, instead backing giant corporations and billionaires.
Rofl. Now you're talking complete nonsense. You moved from better than them combined, to better than any, based on one thing most Muslim majority countries don't even do? Ridiculous.
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@jashshah5049 Rofl. You hypocrites didn't care when the actual government (president) fired, or threatened to fire, people that contradicted him. You don't care when the actual government makes it harder, or more dangerous, to protest. You don't really care about the actual government violating free speech rights. You don't care when Marge threatens to cancel cell phone businesses, if they comply with a lawful subpoena. You don't care about calls to fire athletes, and don't care when they're told to shut up and dribble. You don't care when right wing mouthpieces cut people's mics, or kick them off the air. You don't care about calls to cancel Nike, Disney, Captain Marvel, or whoever right wingers are upset with that day.
Plenty of lefties have been banned, or suspended from social media. Again, those running social media aren't lefties. The FB PAC has donated more to Republicans than Democrats. The FB algorithm was found to be promoting right wingers, like Shapiro. They just don't like extremist nutbars promoting a civil war, or promoting mass death. Corporations want society running smoothly, and don't want their consumer base dying off in large numbers. They want to keep making large quantities of money.
Treat it like a public utility? Don't right wingers want to privatize "public utilities", like in Texas? You hypocrites are all for privatization, and free markets, until it bites you in the ass.
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@matthewgoedtel5998 Pakman is acting like an "enlightened centrist", not much different than Piers Morgan, when there are objective facts that Israel is the aggressor. Being in the middle, not recognizing reality, is somewhat as delusional as being opposed to reality. Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@andyc.9751 You Dore knobs don't grasp basic math, so don't actually grasp leverage. There are zero extra votes to be gained to the left of the party. Therefore, it is absolutely, 100%, impossible to pass a bill, if you lose Manchin's vote. On the other end, there is the entire Republican party to try and gain extra votes from, if you lose squad votes. By moving a bill to the right, and picking up enough Republican votes, squad votes aren't needed.
You're either a liar, or a dimwit. AOC was just campaigning for Nina, trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress, because getting enough yes votes is the only possible way to ever pass the bill. Dore, on the other hand, abandoned Nina, abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress. So, which is it, liar or dimwit?
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@Newton-Reuther Organizing or sponsoring? What are you looking for, exactly?
2 weeks ago: "AOC at a ramadan event in New York. Spoke about a ceasefire and conditioning aid to Israel! AOC has been calling for a ceasefire. Tonight, she spoke in a rally with Cori Bush to a group of rabbis."
"Progressive Democrats protest Israeli president's address to US Congress
Jul 18, 2023 — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib say they intend to boycott address due to Israel's treatment of Palestinians."
"Ilhan Omar leads 384 worldwide leaders in call for Gaza ceasefire
The American signatories are the representatives Omar, Jamaal Bowman, Cori Bush, André Carson, Greg Casar, Jesús García, Hank Johnson, Summer Lee, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley, Nydia Velázquez and Bonnie Watson Coleman."
"'Squad' Dems face backlash calling for 'ceasefire' after Israel attacks
Oct 7, 2023 — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., called for a "ceasefire and de-escalation" after the surprise terrorist attack by Hamas on Israel."
"AOC leads Democrats urging Biden to call for Gaza ceasefire over children's rights
Nov 15, 2023 — Twenty-four Democrats in Congress have urged Joe Biden to end “grave violations of children's rights” by pushing for an immediate ceasefire"
Votes against the State Department appropriation bill (which includes the annual aid to IL), every year.
Bills to condition aid to IL.
Bills calling for ceasefire.
She, and the other progressives, are prepping to take on AIPAC sponsored opponents, shortly.
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Everything the Republicans whine about, regarding the border, is complete nonsense.
90% of drugs come through points of entry. 80% of drug traffickers are Americans. Cartels aren't as stupid as the GOP. They use the least likely people to be stopped, not the most likely. They don't want their product swept downriver, laying in a desert, or tossed in holding.
Undocumented immigrants commit crimes at half the rate of natural born citizens. Most try to keep their heads down, and stay out of trouble, so they don't get immediately tossed.
Florida now says there are plenty enough jobs to let children compete to work full time, at 85% of minimum wage. Johnson not only thinks there's plenty of room and jobs, for hundreds of thousands of extra unwanted babies per year, he said they're actually needed, to keep SS and Medicare afloat.
As for being "replaced" ... Spanish and Catholicism come from Europe. It's European culture. Republicans don't care when that culture comes with white Cubans, like Cruz, Rubio, Salazar , or the like. It's only a problem when it comes with those whose ancestry is mainly Native American, from Central/South America. They're unironically afraid of being "replaced" by Native Americans.
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@TheRedStateBlue Objectively ... The Palestinian territories are considered occupied by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Under international law, those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. The occupier, however, does not have a right to use collective punishment. That is against the law. The occupier also doesn't have the right to colonize occupied territory. That is also against the law. Therefore, Israel is a rogue nation, violating multiple international laws.
Setting the law aside, objectively, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's never ending colonization of the West Bank ... and Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. To make out like Israel was the one "defending" itself, and that Hamas "started" something, is utter bullshit. That's the colonialist propaganda line, that poor "innocent" them have been aggressively attacked by "Savages!", ignoring that colonialists are never not the aggressors, when it comes to the natives.
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Oh, wow, he predicted Pelosi would be Pelosi? Such insight. Who said Pelosi wouldn't be Pelosi?
How is taking out a few more corporate Dems and adding a few more M4A yes votes to congress, in the election cycle that just passed, not fighting for M4A? It's exactly what needs doing to ever pass the bill, exactly what would still need doing even if there was a failed vote. If that doesn't count as fighting, then Dore's own "plan" was to have a failed vote and then not fight.
Oh, wow, he predicted Biden would be Biden? Such insight. Who said Biden wouldn't be Biden?
So, he has pointed out the obvious, and slandered those actually advancing M4A, even if it's not happening as fast as you fantasize it happening. Such talent.
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@jamesmcelroy5830 Like the fact that not voting, or casting a useless vote, only benefits Republicans? Like the fact that Dumpty did fill multiple scotus seats, and the moon didn't fall into Lake Michigan? Like the fact that there were dozens of inspections showing Syria used chemical weapons, and that 2 dissenting opinions on a single inspection doesn't even refute that inspection, let alone all those dozens of others (that didn't have dissenting opinions)? Like the fact that the entire progressive caucus doesn't have the majority needed to pick a different party speaker candidate, meaning the majority of house Democrats could have kept picking Pelosi over and over and over again? Like the fact that Dore actually promoted that 15 progressives abstain, rather than cast protest votes, which would have handed the house speakership to McCarthy? Like the fact that Dore promoted abandoning Nina Turner ... abandoning adding another M4A yes vote to congress, when getting enough yes votes in congress is the only possible way to ever pass the bill? Like the fact that he spewed a ton of garbage about COVID, vaccines, and "alternatives"? Like the fact that Rumble is funded by Peter Thiel (mega MAGA donor, who made his billions helping the government spy on its citizens), and they paid Tulsi, Greenwald, and Dore, to join their platform? Etc.
Grifters claim they're selling you something beneficial, but are actually selling you something useless, or even harmful. The paths Dore proposes taking don't lead to where he claims they do. They lead to Republicans ruling for decades to come.
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@gnubbiersh647 He used to go around spewing results from a survey of the "Muslim World" (Muslim majority countries) in a vacuum, with nothing to compare it to, from the rest of the religious "worlds". He seems to be completely clueless as to what's going on in those "worlds". India represents almost the entirety of the "Hindu World", and ranks lower than Saudi, for the treatment of women. Sam will dismiss Christian extremism as limited to some attack on an abortion clinic, years ago. Meanwhile, in the "Christian World", churches ran propaganda campaigns against condom use, in Africa ... even outright lying, that condoms cause HIV ... as 30m people perished. He thought it was horrible, that a significant minority of the "Muslim World" thought terrorism was sometimes okay. Meanwhile, IL still celebrates the Irgun and Lehi as "heroes", indicating an outright majority of the "Jewish World" thinks terrorism is sometimes okay. 80% of Americans thought blowing up hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would be cool. 60% of Americans (including him) thought torture was sometimes okay. Etc. Etc. Etc. Just "Muslims bad" fear mongering into a vacuum.
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NoFreedoms Rofl. The UK had a shit covid response. Boris barely took it seriously, until he got it, and then still half assed it. Sweden is worse than Germany, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Russia, ...
Why do dimwits aim to be like another top 40 worst countries in the world, instead of aiming to be amongst the best?
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NoFreedoms Sure, it's only 5x more deadly than automobile accidents. We should also do away with street lights, speed limits, seatbelt laws, child seat laws, helmet laws, drinking and driving laws, vehicle safety standards, licensing, etc., so people can truly enjoy their freedumb.
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@whyamimrpink78 They still protested extra taxes that specifically funded the police/military.
He was a loser, who failed at almost everything he tried on his own, except being a reality show host. Inheriting daddy's business is the only reason anyone knows him.
I care about policies, dumb dumb. Replace them all with people pushing policies I like, for all I care. Try saying the same about the cult leader who convinced tens of millions of people not to believe any media, any other politicians, any judges, any lawyers, any law enforcement, any scientists, any doctors, any nurses, any election officials ... anybody ... if they contradicted Supreme Leader Trumpty Dumpty. That makes you both stupid and ironic. Completely disconnected from reality.
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@mp22893 Do that in the primaries. The 30 year old progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. The 6 year old Justice Dems have 11 seats. The most popular third party, Libertarian, hasn't won a single seat in its 50 year existence. Green hasn't won a single seat in its 20 year existence. Him, criticizing small steps, and making out like third party will be the faster route to your destination, is completely dishonest. Even if the entire progressive caucus was third party, that would hand the house, senate, and presidency, to Republicans. His path leads to Republican rule, for the foreseeable future.
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As said, the problem is a lot bigger than just him. Likud's platform, has promised to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories, as well as parts of Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, since the 70s. Likud was founded by Irgun and Lehi terrorists, followers of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, whose goal was always to colonize it all. Israelis still celebrate them as "heroes". In its previous form, Herut, Einstein and other notbale Jews, likened the party to fascists and Nazis. Many Israelis , who dislike Netanyahu, think he's too soft. Israel has a Third Reich level societal problem.
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@mychannel5019 Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure, dumb dumb ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@elconquistador5469 The UN Office of Genocide Prevention considers ethnic cleansing in their wheelhouse. Because, if they don't move, they die.
Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan", platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
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That makes little sense. After losing to Eisenhower, Democrats moved a little further right. After losing to Nixon, Democrats moved a little further right. After losing to Reagan, Democrats moved a little further right. After losing to Bush, Democrats moved a little further right. After losing to Trump, Democrats pushed Biden over Bernie. Bernie actually did better in 2016, after a previous Democrat.
And, Israel was ethnically cleansing Palestine that whole time. You need to pressure members or get more progressive members in congress, because with the amount of support Israel has in congress, they can pass whatever bills supporting Israel they want, and have the numbers to override any presidential veto. The president is of little relevance, in the big picture.
And, you'll end up with someone who will support Israel even harder, will let Russia do to Ukraine what Israel is doing to Palestine, who has said he wants a pledge of allegiance to Israel to get in the country, who has said he wants to reinstate and expand his Muslim ban (and Republicans have even been talking trying to deport Palestine supporters that weren't born in the US, like Ilhan), who could f up the courts even worse, who has said he wants to go after leftists, etc., etc., etc.
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@laqueefa8509 Dore is an idiot. The original "plan" he "organized" was to hand the speakership to McCarthy, because Dore's original wording, and numerous times after, never stated that the 15 progressives he picked need to cast protest votes. He kept repeating simply "withhold" or "don't vote for", which implies abstaining. It took others to fix the major hole in his "plan", because he's an idiot who doesn't know how the government works.
Dore also "organized" helping Trump win in 2016, by arguing that Trump was a better option than Clinton, not caring if 10m of the poorest Americans were thrown of Medicaid expansion, and not caring to add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion.
He also "organized" supporting Tulsi and her "Medicare choice" over Bernie and M4A.
He also "organized" an attack ad campaign against Trump's only remaining viable opponent in 2020, doing what he could to help him win again.
He also "organized" support for the third party route that hasn't won the most popular third party a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. A route that would, at best peel away enough progressive votes from Dems to hand the party totally back to corporate Dems and let Republicans rule for decades. Dimwit Dore knobs don't grasp that "vote blue" works both ways, and that Dem voters who vote against progressives in the primaries vote for them in the general. If you simply split off progressives, elections would look like a two candidate Dem primary vs a single candidate Republican general, and Republicans would win in most places.
Dore is a grifter, who doesn't actually care about getting anyone healthcare anytime soon.
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@sergeikhripun No it doesn't. The Iron Dome is defensive, and Israel reacts disproportionately. If Palestinian rockets killed dozens of Israelis, instead of just a few, how much worse do you think Israel woukd react?
She only has domestic issues, on her website. What do you claim she used to have on her website, about Palestine? Hard to believe you Dore knobs. Dore knobs have claimed she erased M4A from her website, when it's actually at the top of her issues list.
Does not having something on her website change the fact that she has called out Israel multiple time, called it an apartheid state, co-signed a bill to put conditions on military aid to Israel, voted against the state department appropriation bill which gives military aid to Israel, co-signed a bill to get rid of anti-BDS laws, etc.?
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@brentnoury7626 I hear what you're saying, but, if they're workers voting Republican, truth isn't the "strength" they're looking for, and, if they're right wing Christians, they're probably on the side of Israel. Not sure progressives can vote on an Israel bill in a way that'll woo any right wingers over, without outright voting for it.
This wouldn't even have been a seperate bill, where you could see how everyone voted on this specific issue, if progressives hadn't pressured Pelosi to remove it from the government spending bill and vote on it separately. The bigger news should actually be just how overwhelming the yes vote was, and that none of the actual yes voters seem to have to answer for their votes. There's zero questioning, by supposed "leftists", like Dore, zero calling out, zero attacking, of all those who outright supported Israel, but they'll mention every chance they get how AOC didn't vote for it.
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"Indirect" insurrection to overthrow the democratic process, and directly had the majority of Republicans in congress try to overthrow the democratic process, directly asked Pence to overthrow the democratic process, and directly tried a fake electors scheme to overthrow the democratic process. Dumpty dropped more bombs per year than Obama, and more bombs on Yemen than Obama and Bush combined. He kept feeding money to Israel as they continued their ethnic cleansing of Palestine, recognized their illegal annexation of Golan Heights, recognized Jerusalem as their capital, and made a "peace" deal that ignored Palestinians and tried to normalize Israel's ethnic cleansing with some of their neighbors. Dumpty also let Iran have their nuclear weapons program back. He okayed Iraq paying its energy bill to Iran, multiple times, just like Biden. He let his dictator buddy in North Korea build up his nuclear arsenal, and continue to test missiles that can reach at least Alaska. Shared nuclear secrets (presidents have zero authority to declassify nuclear secrets) with a billionaire donor.
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Bezalel Smotrich, who Netanyahu put in charge of the West Bank, made public a plan to segregate and subjugate (no federal representation), exile, or kill, any non Jews in all of Israel/Palestine. Even worse, he has a map of "Israel" on his wall that includes parts of Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. He's a religious nut, who thinks all of "Israel" is their god given land, so probably wants the entire Tanakh/OT kingdom.
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@gnubbiersh647 Why would what I prefer matter, if something were objective? You're asking what I'd subjectively like. Again, Sam covered that in his opening, stating that was already a given. If he had simply said ... well here is what I think is a good measure of "well being", and think we should set that as our goal ... that would be a totally different thing. Not what he did.
No, Sam is actually the one who routinely agrees with religious extremists, not me. A Sky Hitler is definitely not a good source for morality. I think morality is subjective. By definition, objectivity has no biases. It's straight facts, no feelings. It doesn't care about outcomes. By definition, morality has a bias in favor of some behaviors, and against others. I'm not even really sure how it became debatable. Even a god's morality would be based on its own subjective biases. It could hand down laws, and then you're objectively following the law, or not. But, the morality behind making the law would be subjective.
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@gnubbiersh647 Why would you say that? I think you've come to the wrong leftist channel, if you think this one is pro Sam Harris. Do you think pro gun, pro torture, Islamophobic, anti-blm, anti-antifa, white supremacist defender, feminist critic, leftist critic, Zionist ... Sam Harris is a leftist, or something?
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@crabbypattie
Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@fredsanford1437 You mean, overstimated leverage, for a guaranteed to fail vote, and not actually M4A (which Bernie campaigned on, with AOC campaigning for him, while Dore was backing Tulsi and her "Medicare choice", and AOC also backed 20 other pro-M4A progressives, helping to add a few more M4A yes votes to congress and helping to remove a few more corporate Dems). Dore knobs have since proved they would have done absolutely nothing with a failed vote, anyway. There was a vote on the $15, and they just continued to whine and complain about the people who voted for it, instead of those who voted against, and have done absolutely nothing with their treasured list of names of no voters. Just a bunch of lazy good for nothings, following a "real" leftist, who promoted Trump as a better option than Clinton, who didn't care if 10m of the poorest Americans were thrown off Medicaid expansion and didn't care to add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion, and who failed in all his predictions. Gotta love "real" leftists that benefit the far right most. Go on Tucker, not to challenge right wing ideas, but to agree with them ... make friends with extreme right ancap Boogaloos who want the complete opposite economics to socialism ... such a "real" lefty Jimmy is.
Repeating what CIA pro war talking points? Like speaking out against US support for Israeli policies? Speaking out against US support for the war in Yemen? Ignoring that they have voted against US intervention in a number of places, which "pro war" talking points are they repeating, exactly?
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@TheRedStateBlue Israelis have repeatedly elected policymakers who continue the Zionist colonialism, which is aggression. Natives are never the aggressors, in the face of colonialism. The colonialists are never "innocent", nor are they ever "defenders".
On top of the colonialism, Israel was also founded on its own terrorism, by groups like the Irgun and Lehi, who bombed many Palestinian markets, killing many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support Zionism). Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, who bombed the King David Hotel. Israel merged those terrorist groups into their new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". They literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood.
If all that isn't bad enough, they are f*cking operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. That should make it a no brainer, as to who is the aggressor. One is a colonialist occupier. One isn't. They've become the very thing they fled. The Warsaw ghetto uprising wasn't done by the aggressors. The ghetto was.
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@seandoyle296 You're talking like Harris. "Islam" didn't have a relationship with slavery. "Islam" doesn't exist on its own. Certain Muslims have had a relationship with slavery. There's also wasn't particularly racist, as they also made non Africans slaves. And, like you said yourself, they couldn't keep any of them as slaves, if the slaves converted. Converting didn't help African slaves in the Americas, because their status as slaves was entirely race based. There's also a difference between temporarily enslaving people for a period of time (which was often done with prisoners of war and criminals, and even developed countries still do with criminals) and chattel slavery, where you get to own them as personal property for life, and own their children, and their children, ...
You also seem to be conflating conquest with forced conversion. It actually benefited Muslim rulers to not force convert populations, because they could tax non Muslims a little bit extra. It benefited non Muslims, that they could pay a little extra to keep their ability to practice their own religion. The majority of the population in Hispania remained Christian, under Muslim rule, and Sephardic Jews remaiined Jewish. That's quite different than the Catholic conquerors giving Muslims and Jews the options of conversion, death, or exile.
European Catholics also conquered more of the Orthodox Byzantine Empire than Muslims did, but it's not considered quite as big a deal. It's more acceptable for Christians to conquer other Christians. But, if Muslims happen to conquer a Christian area, it's portrayed as some kind of holy war, when it wasn't necessarily so. It was largely Christians who made things into holy wars, that comprised of both conquest and forced conversion. They had crusades against northern pagans, crusades to "reconquer" Hispania, and crusades against Muslims to the East.
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@seandoyle296 Do you have reading comprehension problems, or does your mind only jump between two extremes, of all good and all bad? I didn't call anyone "noble", or argue anything was "utopic". I simply explained some differences.
You were mentioning the spread of Islam, in other posts. Not sure where I lost you, while explaining the difference between simply conquering vs conquering with forced conversion. I used Catholics, as an example, because all of Europe was Catholic, at the time, and they force converted along with conquest. They had been force converting since the Roman Empire adopted Christianity and force converted its own populace. You can go on about Muslim conquests, but that doesn't change the fact that they didn't much practice forced conversion. Alexander conquered all the way to India, as well, but he didn't force convert the populations along the way to believe in the Greek gods. Pre-Christian Romans conquered large amounts of territory, but also didn't force convert populations along the way. There's a difference between spreading your borders by the sword, and spreading your religion by the sword.
You get that, as a rate, 12m over 500 years is worse than 17m over 1300 years, right? You also failed to mention the millions of slaves being bread like livestock, over hundreds of years, in the Americas, on top of those traded from Africa. There were 4 million, in the US alone, in 1860, and millions more in the 200 years prior. Chattel slavery, like that, wasn't commonplace in Muslim nations, while manumission was common, even mandatory in places. There were black Moors accepted as rulers. There were also Sudanese Mamluks accepted at the elite levels of your slavery hierarchy, that also went on to be rulers in places. There was also a hierarchy in the chattel slavery of the Americas, where whites couldn't be chattel slaves, blacks were considered good chattel slaves, and natives were considered bad chattel slaves, so were wiped out, ethnically cleansed, or simply worked to death en masse. You have an uphill battle trying to argue other forms of slavery was as racist, or as bad, as it was.
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@seandoyle296 It does seem to be a reading comprehension problem, because you don't seem to be grasping things I am saying, and make up things I haven't said.
What I'm talking about is me simply pointing out the fact that Muslims didn't do X, and you then jumping to comparisons to "apologetics", "nobility", or "utopia", I haven't apologized for anything they actually did. I haven't called anyone "noble". I haven't painted anything as a "utopia". In what reality is having multiple forms of slavery some noble utopia? It's not. Pointing out the fact that they didn't really have race based chattel slavery is simply a fact. That chattel slavery itself wasn't common in Muslim nations is just a fact. Not sure how you're going to dig up millions of extra black slaves, that were bred into slavery, when that wasn't really much of a thing in Muslim nations. Them freeing slaves being more common doesn't change that they enslaved someone to begin with. It doesn't make them saints. It just means they practiced slightly less horrible forms of slavery, and were somewhat less racist.
Muslims were only about 16% of the population in India, when the British started ruling, after centuries of Mughal rule. There's no evidence of an ongoing mass forced conversion effort of the populace. Hindu princes helped rule, and Hindus helped run the administration. The Sikh religion itself draws from both Hinduism and Islam, and was only in its infancy around when Mughals started ruling. It actually grew and spread, under Mughal rule. It was mainly just one ruler that tried to force convert people. I'm sure it had nothing to do with them forementing uprisings, and whatnot. You're the one desperately grasping at little anecdotes, to try and make out like two largely different spreads were the same. But, you don't actually have stories of widespread, ongoing, relentless, forced mass conversion, almost everywhere Muslims ruled ... like within the Roman Empire against pagans, like within new territories conquered by Christian Romans, like Northern Crusades against pagan rulers, like Eastern Crusades against Muslims, like the "reconquest" of Spain, like a Chinese Jesus waging one of the bloodiest wars in history, like enslaving or wiping out native Americans that wouldn't convert, Orthodox Russians force converting pagans and Muslims and Jews, etc. Force converting was almost everywhere Christians ruled, on an ongoing grand scale, for centuries. Grasping at what this one Muslim ruler did here, or that this happened to this single Christian there, isn't actually evidence that the overall spread was the same. That there aren't endless accounts from almost everywhere Muslims ruled, and that you have to grasp at little anecdotes, is actually evidence the overall spread wasn't the same. And, again, simply pointing out a fact, isn't arguing that tons of bloody conquests, or any brutal rulers, were some noble utopia, or apologize for anything they actually did do.
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@seandoyle296 Are there lists with Europeans considered to be superior chattel slaves, in the Americas, or were they not at all on chattel slave lists? Is there an example of blacks being considered inferior, and used as chattel slaves, in just Spanish controlled Americas, or was it also in the British controlled Americas, the France controlled Americas, the Dutch controlled Americas, the Portuguese controlled Americas? Were natives considered inferior in one European empire's colony in Africa, the Americas, East Asia, the South Pacific, or in pretty much all of those colonies, for hundreds of years? Were there black Christian rulers ruling over major parts any Christian empires, like there were black Muslims ruling over major parts of Islamic empires? Were there Africans or natives even being made governors, or generals?
The Zanj rebellion wasn't even a black slave only rebellion, and black slaves might not have even been the majority of rebels. It included Beduins and Bahrani, who were Muslim. It included Basra peasants, who were Muslim. It included previously, or partially, freed slaves, of various races, who were Muslim. They were led by a free Muslim man, who was largely Arab, with a grandmother that was a freed slave, who preached the extreme egalitarian philosophy of previous Kharijite rebels, the first Muslim sect, who had also operated out of Basra. The rebels were also, themselves, quite brutal, slaughtering and burning villages. Your rebellion totals are for both sides, dumb dumb, and the side you're claiming them all on wasn't all black, maybe not even a majority black. Not to mention, that said rebellion led to Islamic empires no longer using large concentrations of slave labour, which kind of f*cks up your bullshit samesies narrative.
Even in that brutally authoritarian area of a single Muslim empire, the very fact that many of them were previously freed, or partially freed, slaves, indicates they weren't practicing endless chattel slavery. I'm doubting you even know what that term means, since you keep comparing things that weren't it, to it. It means someone being property for their entire lives. It means their children being property from birth, even if it's a white man's child, for their entire lives. And so on, and so on, generation after generation. Even within that same empire, there were also prominent black Moors in positions of power in parts of it. I have no clue where you're getting the idea that white Christian European nobility would be fine with black Christians ruling over them, or power sharing with black Christians, or even for it to be common to have black Christians amongst their governing administrations. And that's the only possible idea you could possibly have, to think the two were equally racist. Brutality doesn't debunk manumission. Spaniards eradicated entire islands of its people, brought in tons of slaves, cared less if they died as they were constantly bringing in more ... plus weren't commonly freeing them, on top of that.
You don't think there were any land deaths, or camp deaths, prior to shipping slaves west? There were also millions shipped to Asian and African markets, by Atlantic slave traders. South Africa was largely uninhabited. They imported a ton of slaves. And European slave traders weren't, at all, capturing Europeans to be slaves, while Muslims like Barbary pirates did. Why? Because their chattel slavery was entirely race based, ffs, while the non chattel Muslim slavery, hierarchy or not, wasn't entirely race based, didn't have a chattel category for people of certain races you didn't even consider human. Christian nations also had non racist debt slavery, political slavery, and criminal slavery, on top of their purely race based chattel slavery. Many of them were treated very poorly, but were released if they made it through their time served. Australia was founded on that kind of non race based non chattel slavery of criminals ... while they were almost entirely eradicating the black natives, because they were racist as f*ck. But hey, some Muslim guy made a hierarchy list, so samesies.
Oh geezus. Yeah, Christians also converted slaves ... on top of force converting all of Europe, Russia, people in numerous colonies ... samesies.
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@seandoyle296 Rofl. Here are a couple easy questions ...
In society A, if you are born outside its borders, you may get brought in as a slave, may even be considered inferior amongst slaves, but you are likely to be freed at some point, and if you are born within its borders, you will be free from the get go, and can attain positions of authority and be accepted as equals amongst the society's higher ups. In society B, whether you're born outside its borders and brought in, or within, you most likely will be a chattel slave your entire life, and if you're in the teenie tiny minority that are freed, you won't attain positions of authority, and likely won't be accepted as an equal. Which society would you prefer living in?
In society A, if you are of a different religion, you can pay a bit more taxes, and keep practicing your religion. In society B, your religion is made illegal (maybe even your different denomination), and you are given the option of conversion, death, or exile. Which society would you prefer living in?
If you answer B, to either of those, then I can only assume that you are completely delusional.
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@rodolfo7441 How is it that a $2000+, per dose, Rogan "kitchen sink", doesn't put more money in the pockets of big pharma, than an under $20, per dose, vaccine? How does weeks, to months, in the hospital, being pumped full of all kinds of drugs, not put more money in the pockets of big pharma?
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@jasong7373 Rofl. You said reaching a high vaccination rate (which 65% isn't) wouldn't end the pandemic, which it irrelevant to whether more unvaccinated are dying.
You lied about what exactly the WHO actually said about boosters. They said diverting doses away from the unvaccinated would cause more variants ... because the unvaccinated cause more variants. Nobody is diverting away from the unvaccinated, if they aren't signing up to get vaccinated. So, you, and Joe, are the ones encouraging more variants.
You lied about the vaccination rate approaching 80%, and then just asserted that none of the remaining unvaccinated was brought there by Joe, based on absolutely nothing. Potentially about 11m unvaccinated people could have been brought there by Joe.
You lied about the vaccines not doing much for transmissions. You have to catch the virus to spread the virus and the booster was shown to have 80% efficacy against Omicron, and 90+% vs Delta and Alpha. No vaccine has been found to have 0% efficacy. Something like 6 out of 8 monoclonal antibodies treatments have been found to be 0% effective against Omicron, however, for those thinking a Rogan $2000+/dose "kitchen sink" is going to save them.
Again, none of that addresses death rates, at all. You blathered a lot of nonsense and outright bullshit.
PHMDC: COVID-19 hospitalization, death rates ~60x higher for unvaccinated vs. boosted
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@mfflscotty2095 There are more regulations in the UK, regarding hiring, zoning, etc., and more spending on government social programs, like the fully socialized NHS. Plus, double the unionization rate, which increases regulations, within a contract. Where the US government mainly outspends, is with the military. 6x more, as a percent of federal spending. US businesses are also more subject to private law suits (which is a "freer" environment), sometimes exactly because they aren't better regulated.
Curious as to why are you simply measuring economic freedom, as a sign of success? Wouldn't the happiness index be a better measure of success? Or, do you simply want to stay away from very happy countries with like 75% unionization rates, and even more government services?
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@ChaiCrimes You're as ignorant as your mom. Early Zionists fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism. A colonialist is never not the aggressor, when it comes to the natives. On top of the colonialism, Zionists formed terrorist groups like the Irgun and Lehi, which bombed numerous Palestinian markets, amongst other civilian targets, killing many, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, who bombed the King David Hote, as PM. To this day, Israelis celebrate those terrorists as heroes. They literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood.
In the West Bank, Israel is using the blueprint for the colonization of North America. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives react violently, cry about being poor "innocent" colonizers who were attacked by "savages", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and then extend the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat.
In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Absolutely abhorrent that they, of all people, would do something so horrendous.
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Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure, dumb dumb ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@crabbypattie You're dumb. "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state. A free Palestine, could be a single state, where everyone can live freely. "Israel", however, is defined as an ethno-state, which means there's no good way to interpret Likud's platform. "Between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", promises to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories. It further claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. Likud was founded by Irgun and Lehi terrorists. Israelis elected the leaders of both those terrorist groups as PMs. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Hamas is a poor man's Likud, only opposed to colonialism instead of doing the colonialism.
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@StasCherkassky Move, or we will unalive you, is ethnc cleansing, yeah. Leaving them no homes to return to is ethnc cleansing, yeah. 100+ years of declared revisionist intent to clnz all of Pal says it's ethnc cleansing, as well. Rofl ... Basically every adult IL citizen, is active mltry or a reserve mltry. Even Ham likely has a better mltry to civilian ratio than IL.
Oh. So, at what percentage, exactly, were the Nzis officially doing gncd, in Poland, since you claim the first 30k of Poland's 3m Jws don't count? Do tell.
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@StasCherkassky Move, or we will off you, is ethnc cleansing, yeah. Leaving them no homes to return to is ethnc cleansing, yeah. 100+ years of declared revisionist intent to clnz all of Pal says it's ethnc cleansing, as well. Rofl ... Basically every adult IL citizen, is active mltry or a reserve mltry. Even Ham likely has a better mltry to civilian ratio than IL.
Oh. So, at what percentage, exactly, were the Nzis officially doing gncd, in Poland, since you claim the first 30k of Poland's 3m Jws don't count? Do tell.
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@StasCherkassky Move, or be mrdrd, is ethnc clnsing, yeah. Leaving them no homes to return to is ethnc clnsing, yeah. 100+ years of declared revisionist intent to clnz all of Pal says it's ethnc clnsing, as well. Basically every adult IL citizen, is active mltry or a rsrv mltry. Even Ham likely has a better mltry to civilian ratio than IL.
Oh. So, at what percentage, exactly, were the Nzis officially doing gncd, in Pol, since you claim the first 30k of Pol's 3m Jws don't count? Do tell.
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@StasCherkassky Move, or be mrdrd, is ethnc clnsing, yeah. Leaving no homes to return to is ethnc clnsing, yeah. 100+ years of declared revisionist intent to clnz all of Pal says it's ethnc clnsing, as well. Basically every adult IL citizen, is active duty or rsrvst. Even Ham likely has a better mlt to civilian ratio than IL.
Oh. So, at what percentage, exactly, were the Nzs officially doing gncd, in Pol, since you claim the first 30k of Pol's 3m Jws don't count? Do tell.
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@TheOldSchoolGamer93 The difference between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is that Muslims didn't simply stick a new new testament after the first two. It rewrote the whole thing, and left out many things they considered to have been inserted by man, into the first two, including a bunch of the worst laws from the OT/Tanakh. You have to get into the Hadiths, which aren't used by all (somewhat like Catholic catechisms), for it to get as nasty as the OT/Tanakh.
It was actually the more tolerant, of the 3, for about 1300, of its 1600 years, until the Ottoman Empire was carved up, by Christian nations, and parts handed off to more extreme Muslims. Since then, part of the problem with being a more moderate Muslim, is that it also went with being somewhat more leftist. Christian nations, especially the UK and US, didn't like that. One, or both, supported ... a coup in Syria, when their democratically elected government voted against a pipeline ... a coup in Iran, when their democratically elected PM wanted to nationalize their oil ... a coup in Iraq, when their popular revolutionary leader, who had overthrown the Brit's puppet king, proposed nationalizing their oil ... religious extremists in Afghanistan, when Communist Muslims overthrew the Brit's puppet king, and wanted to do horrible things, like extend women's rights to all women, not just the rich.
For 1300 years Jews lived amongst Muslim nations, in relative peace. They were given refuge when Christian nations offered conversion, death, or exile. The Ottomans even okayed the earliest form of Zionsim, which was closer to just immigration. Zionist fanatics returned the favor with colonialism, terrorism (Irgun and Lehi), and occupation. Similarly, to the US and UK above, Netanyahu promoted, and helped transfer money to, Hamas, to weaken the Palestinian Authority and avoid possible peace, so he could continue his colonization project, which is based on further religious nuttery.
So, it's not exactly as straight forward as Islam includes the other two, so it is as bad as them, plus more. The earlier two are partly responsible for the current versions of Islam, and the nations ruled by it. Turkey is the last remnant of the Ottoman Empire, not Saudi. Women there fight to keep abortion rights, like in the US. Homosexuality there has never been illegal, because they carried over Ottoman law, which had decriminalized it before a lot of Christian nations did, or while some were still considering it a form of insanity.
TL:DR ... Relationship Status: It's complicated.
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@jdelapaz14 "Russiagate" ... is that where Democrats, Republicans like Mueller and Romney, the FBI (which been run by Republicans for 6 of the last 10 presidential terms), and Australian officials, were all in cahoots to get Mike Pence made president? Lol. Russia having bot farms and sharing information with Dumpty's team is pretty straight forward.
There have been hundreds of accounts of Syrian chemical weapons use since 2013. There have been dozens of no fault UN investigations, with zero dissenting opinions. There have been dozens of fault finding investigations, with zero dissenting opinions. There have been hundreds of victim witnesses. There have been dozens of healthcare worker witnesses. There have been multiple NGO witnesses, including Doctors Without Borders. There are multiple legal human rights groups investigating on behalf of victims. Two dissenting opinions on a single investigation doesn't even debunk that investigation, let alone all the others. That investigation wasn't even started until after Israel, the US, the UK, and others had already started bombing Syria. The final report didn't come out until almost a year later. Plus, it was an initial no fault investigation, that didn't even assign blame. The report wasn't used as a reason to bomb Syria. There was another chemical weapons attack just the month before, which had both a no fault investigation and a blame assigning investigation, with zero dissenting opinions, that blamed Syria. The US, and others, could just as easily use that one as some retroactive justification. Dore is the one spouting a nutty conspiracy, that all of the above are in cahoots to lie about Syrian chemical weapons use. Syria actually using chemical weapons is pretty straight forward.
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@A_Derpy_NINJA You clearly don't know Dore's "argument" for promoting Trump as the better option than Clinton. He agreed Trump was worse, agreed he was a raving fascist, but claimed letting the psycho win would lead to a massive progressive backlash. He vastly overestimated the benefits, claiming it would result in progressives "for sure" taking the house in 2018 (wrong), taking the senate in 2018 (wrong), and the presidency in 2020 (wrong). He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republican lawmakers would join the left in voting against a Trump agenda (wrong), and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong). To argue Clinton would have been worse is both completely moronic and not, at all, what Dore argued. And, Dore thinking to let him win, again, after all his predictions were wrong, and after Trump helped kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, is psychotic.
Did you know there's a big world out there, beyond the US, and US government agents? Doctors across the world support the vaccine. Peru has had one of, if not the, highest uses of Ivermectin, in the world, and also has the highest covid deaths per capita rate, in the world. A large Ivermectin study was pulled from publications, when it was found to be fraudulent, with fabricated and faulty data. Why the need to fabricate results, if it works? Did you know Ivermectin is also owned by a giant pharma company?
Dore goes on Tucker to rant and rave about Democrats and progressives, often agreeing with the far right arguments, and Tucker nods along. Dore has never really challenged Tucker, or his audience, about anything.
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@X7Excalibur You seriously want to use a "nobody wants them" argument, when Jewish people are involved in the equation, and make out like that's the fault of the unwanted? Jordan has 3m Palestinians, btw. There are hundreds of thousands more, in other neighboring countries. Turkey had over 3m Syrian refugees. How about maybe stop making ME refugees?
How many people did the Irgun and Lehi assassinate? Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@darrenallen8215 No, they don't, dumb dumb.
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 45,404
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.7
Source: National Vital Statistics System – Mortality Data (2021) via CDC WONDER
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 48,830
Deaths per 100,000 population: 14.7
Source: National Vital Statistics System – Mortality Data (2021) via CDC WONDER
And, like I said, that's with tons of vehicles constantly being used, unlike guns. Guns are, by far, the more dangerous item, and yet less regulated.
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@X7Excalibur Did I say a theocracy was progressive? Do they have freedom of religion? No and no.
The West carved up a more moderate Muslim empire, and handed bits of it to religious extremists. They've backed coups against more moderate, and more democratic, Muslim governments and politicians, who happened to also lean a bit to the left economically (nationalizing oil, voting against a pipeline, or whatnot). They backed religious extremists to take over Afghanistan. They've backed theocratic Saudi as it has spread its ultra-conservative brand of Islam around the world. Then they turn around and bitch and whine about Muslims being too extreme or conservative, and go blow up hundreds of thousands of them. It's insane. And, someone like Harris is an apologist for US interventions, and blames it all on the religion. He's an idiot. He has sounded like an ISIS leader, claiming there is a one true version of Islam, and those who don't follow that aren't "real" Muslims.
Turkey is the last remnant of the Ottoman Empire, not Saudi. Homosexuality has always been legal in Turkey, because it was made legal in the Ottoman Empire, at a time when many Western nations still considered it illegal, or considered it a mental disorder. European women travelling in the Ottoman Empire had reported that they thought women there had more rights than in Europe. Today, women in Turkey protest against similar stuff as American women, when conservatives are in power. Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam allowed for freedom of religion, first. They also used to be leaders in math and science. The west has helped many Muslim nations go backwards, rather than forwards. In some cases, helped them become worse than ever before. That's partly why there are Muslims who aren't "normal" 2021 people.
And, no, that's not blaming the west for creating extremists, from scratch. But, if you install extremists, support extremists, support the spread of extremism, remove moderates, suppress moderates, etc., then you've helped create a more extremist environment.
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@kennybachman35 Ummm, that would be because those are the English words, not the Hebrew words, Ibhri and Yisrael.
Old English Israel, "the Jewish people, the Hebrew nation," from Latin Israel, from Greek, from Hebrew yisra'el "he that striveth with God"
late Old English, from Old French Ebreu, from Latin Hebraeus, from Greek Hebraios, from Aramaic (Semitic) 'ebhrai, corresponding to Hebrew 'ibhri "an Israelite."
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In 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism. He also predicted, based on the entirety of history, that the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them and thought it was a great idea, and "moral" colonialism. Colonizers are never not the aggressors when it comes to the native population.
On top of the colonialism, the Zionists formed terrorist groups, like the Irgun and Lehi, who bombed many Palestinian markets, as well as other public places, killing many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. To this day, Israelis still celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". They literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated. Netanyahu also promoted, and helped fund, Hamas, to weaken the Palestinian Authority, to avoid a possible peace. Netanyahu wants this. He wants an excuse to keep killing and expanding.
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@Lashkor Yes, I did. It was garbage. Even in one of his own responses to criticisms, he touched on the possibility that morality could simply be very strong likes/dislikes, but then dropped it quickly. Chess is an analogy to laws, dumb dumb, not morality. It has rules to follow, but the rules were created based on the rulemaker's subjective wishes. Once you've created a law, it's pretty easy to tell, objectively, if you're breaking it, or not. No new insight, there. Morality is above lawmaking. Laws can be considered immoral.
Rofl! Yeah, it's pretty simple to tell, since they don't do anything they aren't programmed to do, and there's zero indication they ever will.
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@GodsSon987 Well, that video of his, that Dore mentioned, which was being passed around, was called "Hillary Presidency Worse For Progressives & America Than Trump". He did promote Trump as the better option. He vastly overestimated the benefits, claiming progressives would "for sure" take the house (nope) and senate (nope), in 2018, and the presidency (nope), in 2020. He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republicans would join the left and vote against a Trump agenda (nope) instead of following him into outright fascism (they did). In a follow up debate with Sam, on the topic, Dore also claimed that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (nope).
Dore didn't get anything right.
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Azov didn't exist, before Russia invaded in 2014. They're a tiny fraction of the entire military. The far right politicians, they're aligned with, got 2% of the vote, and no seats in parliament. The US is far more fascist, by those numbers, considering the support for Trump. The US and UK conscripted, trained, and armed, every single fighting age KKK and BUF member, to go fight invading fascists, during WWII. Russia is now the invading fascists.
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@jds614 Absolute bullshit. Zionists knew exactly how things would play out, and they did it anyway. Ze'ev Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923 ...
"There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs. Not now, nor in the prospective future. I say this with such conviction, not because I want to hurt the moderate Zionists. I do not believe that they will be hurt. Except for those who were born blind, they realised long ago that it is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting "Palestine" from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority.
My readers have a general idea of the history of colonisation in other countries. I suggest that they consider all the precedents with which they are acquainted, and see whether there is one solitary instance of any colonisation being carried on with the consent of the native population. There is no such precedent.
The native populations, civilised or uncivilised, have always stubbornly resisted the colonists, irrespective of whether they were civilised or savage."
"This is equally true of the Arabs. Our Peace-mongers are trying to persuade us that the Arabs are either fools, whom we can deceive by masking our real aims, or that they are corrupt and can be bribed to abandon to us their claim to priority in Palestine , in return for cultural and economic advantages. I repudiate this conception of the Palestinian Arabs. Culturally they are five hundred years behind us, they have neither our endurance nor our determination; but they are just as good psychologists as we are, and their minds have been sharpened like ours by centuries of fine-spun logomachy. We may tell them whatever we like about the innocence of our aims, watering them down and sweetening them with honeyed words to make them palatable, but they know what we want, as well as we know what they do not want. They feel at least the same instinctive jealous love of Palestine, as the old Aztecs felt for ancient Mexico, and the Sioux for their rolling Prairies.
To imagine, as our Arabophiles do, that they will voluntarily consent to the realisation of Zionism, in return for the moral and material conveniences which the Jewish colonist brings with him, is a childish notion, which has at bottom a kind of contempt for the Arab people; it means that they despise the Arab race, which they regard as a corrupt mob that can be bought and sold, and are willing to give up their fatherland for a good railway system."
Likud was founded by Irgun terrorist Menachem Begin, child murderer, Palestinian Jew murderer (because they didn't support Zionism) ... and Ariel Sharon, war criminal who massacred Palestinian villages. Their platform ...
"The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."
All evidence points towards Netanyahu still aiming for that goal.
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@Cheesesteakfreak Sam is an idiot. Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism. You're basically never the good guy, after that point. He also predicted, based on history, exactly how the natives would react ... fight said colonialism until the bitter end.
On top of its colonialist Zionist foundation, the state of Israel was founded on terrorism, by groups like the Irgun and Lehi. Israel elected terrorists, like Menachem Begin, who led the Irgun and bombed the King David Hotel. Israel, to this day, celebrates said terrorists, as "heroes". They literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood.
I take it you considered Geronimo a "villain", or resistance movements during WWII that spent money on "terrorism" instead of food?
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@linbinnash You can't opt out of the VAT. If UBI doesn't benefit you, then the VAT makes you worse off.
Some things not considered staples, and not exempt from Canada's VAT: electric bill, phone bill, internet bill, cable bill, games, toys, basically any entertainment with a cost, non staple snacks and pop, a lower but still present VAT on gasoline, personal hygiene products, household cleaning products, home maintenance and repairs, vehicle maintenance and repairs, ....
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@masonsmith5726 That would be a long future, where Republicans would win, for decades to come. Even if the entire progressive caucus was third party, and all progressive voters voted third party, that would have led to Republicans winning the house, senate, and presidency. A third party would still be largely irrelevant, even if it ever managed to get that many seats in congress.
In Canada, the Conservative party should never win outside of 2 provinces, where they have a majority of votes, and never at the federal level. The only reason they do, is because Liberal and NDP (BQ too) votes are split. It allows Conservatives to win the majority of seats with only 35-40% of the vote. Things would be even worse, in the US, because Republicans get 45-50% of the vote. A third party would never be relevant, in the US, until it could get all the current Dem votes, actually become the second main party, and be able to beat the Republican party.
That's why it makes more sense just to keep trying to take over the party. The progressive caucus is like 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. The Justice Dems have won 11 seats. The most popular third party, Libertarian, hasn't won a single seat in its 50 year existence. The most popular progressive third party, Green, hasn't won a single seat in congress in its 20 year existence. You're looking at decades of Republican rule, before possibly even winning one seat.
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Just to be clear ... Letting Thanos win a battle, eradicate half the universe's population, throwing all of existence into turmoil, throwing trillions upon trillions into grief and depression, very likely causing countless suicides by those who couldn't bear to live without their loved ones, etc., etc., ... all so you can win the final war (thanks to a rat), is a lesser of two evils, utilitarian, decision.
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If you're only going to accept full blown socialism, before using that word, then you should only accept full blown capitalism before using that word. In that case, only countries with absolute monarchies, like Saudi, might represent full capitalism, as they are totally privately owned enterprises. If that ruler builds a road, he's building it on his own private property.
Most countries run on a mix of both capitalism, privately owned enterprises, and socialism, publicly owned enterprises. There's nothing wrong with the term "socialized medicine", if it's publicly owned. And, if even one thing is publicly owned, then you've got a small percentage of socialism mixed with your capitalism.
The only exceptions being things that someone like Ayn Rand made exceptions for, even under extreme capitalism ... military, legal system, etc., to protect private interests and private property. Those things are more a difference in levels of authoritarianism, and there are authoritarian and non-authoritarian versions of both capitalism and socialism.
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@thewellhaspoison Marx totally talked about having a transition, in which you'd still need a government. If that government does things that reduces the gap in classes (minimum wage, free education, free medical, etc.), then that is a partial move towards socialism and away from all out capitalism. If that government spreads out money according to need (disability, baby bonus, old age, unemployment), then it's a partial move towards socialism, and away from all out capitalism. If that government gives some power to the workers (legalizing unions and strikes, worker safety regulations, guaranteed days off, limited work day, minimum wages, etc.), then it's a partial move towards socialism, and away from all out capitalism. Etc.
If a "mixed" economy isn't a mix of capitalism and socialism, then what's it a mix of? If centrism isn't in the centre of capitalism and socialism, then what's it in the centre of?
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@coffeecomics3583 Subjectivity, which requires a subject by definition yes, is that subject's preferences, likes, dislikes, biases for or against, opinions, desires, caring, etc.
Objectivity is facts, truth, logic, etc., which are supposed to be the case independent of any individual subject.
Observations are, basically, objective in nature. It's just empirical evidence being sent to your brain. A computer with cameras, or other sensory input, can observe, record, and store empirical evidence. I'm referring to actions, making a decisions, judgements, things that only comes from a subject's subjectivity. Subjectivity is how you feel about what you observed, not a way to observe.
Fact: the subject observes person A forcing person B to have sex
So what? That only matters if the observing subject cares, one way or another. The subject will make no decision, make no judgement, without subjectivity. If you care, then you'll make a decision about whether you like or dislike such behaviour, make a judgment whether you feel it's right or wrong. Most people will be inclined towards the dislike/wrong.
A robot observing that fact may record it, but it won't ever give a crap, make a decision/judgement, on its own. A programmer could program in their own subjective judgment, telling the robot how to react to such behaviour, but it won't ever actually care itself.
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@knukkaboom4491 You're a moron. It's right in the word, dummy. "Feudalism" comes from the old Germanic word "fihu", which means "cattle". "Fihu" is also where the word "fee" comes from. Sure, there was a variety of bartering, but there was a standard ... the cow. Just like ten dimes is worth the standard dollar, ten chickens might be worth the standard cow. Early feudal lords were, effectively, cattle barons of old.
Like the dimwit you are, you jumped straight into nations, with laws, skipping over the earliest feudalism, with no minted coins, with no kings, without even a unified nation, well outside Rome, amongst Germanic tribes. A family would settle land, the family head would be owner, the family would grow, the settlement would grow, but still be considered to be the head's property, the head would pass it down to an eldest son, just like centuries of inheritance, and also perfectly okay in an ancap environment.
The settlement might grow to attract other settlers, but they'd still be considered to be living on the head of the family's property. He could charge them rent, make them pledge loyalty, make rules, whatever he wanted, for the right to live on his property. All perfectly fine in an ancap environment.
If they had a property dispute with a nearby clan, they'd settle it with their private armies. If you got sick of the other clan, maybe you'd just go outright conquer their settlement, and claim it as your own. There's no oversight, or legal system, saying there's anything wrong with that in an ancap environment.
Now you privately own two settlements, so maybe you stick a close family member, or friend, in as manager of your other settlement. Then maybe you add another, and another, etc. All perfectly legal, because there is no law above you in an ancap environment.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Until you've got a large enough group of settlements, to declare yourself a king of something ... the Angles, the Franks, ... whatever. Absolute monarchies are complete private ownership of an entire region. The private owner can make whatever rules (laws) they want, for living on their private property. The private owner can charge whatever price (rent, tax) they want, for living on their private property. The private owner can mint his own money, with his face on it, good inside his privately owned nation. The private owner can hire a private policing force, to enforce the rules for living on his private property. Etc.
So you shut down the government, and turn the US ancap ... what's to stop giant corporations from hiring large private armies and throwing their weight around? What's to stop the rich from hiring small private armies, and throwing their weight around?
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@secularsocialist I'm perfectly fine "hun". I have the ability to both remain calm, and point out morons, all at the same time, so don't worry your little head, about me.
Rofl. What are you blathering about? It was Dore who said he was trying to figure out what the covid death rate was, after pulling total population hospitalization rates out of a Gallup article. He was the one who chose the incorrect rate to compare. He was the one too stupid to be able to find the current incorrect rate to compare. He was the one too stupid to do the math to figure out the current incorrect rate to compare. He was the dimwit who then chose an out of date incorrect rate to compare.
All along, the rate he should have been looking for was the crude mortality rate, which is also very very easy to find. Just take the very easy to find deaths per million rate and move the decimal point to the left 4 spaces, or very easy to find deaths per thousand rate a move the decimal point to the left 1 space, and you have deaths per hundred. It's also easy to do the math.
There's nothing incompatible with a 0.9% total population covid hospitalization rate, and a 0.26% total population covid death rate.
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Christians don't like James. He also said that Gentiles should initially be taught the basic Noahide laws (including dietary restrictions), and that they'd learn the rest of the laws from street preachers, and in temples, at a time when there was no book of the New Testament, so what they'd be learning is Jewish laws. Generations of Jewish Christian leaders in Jerusalem stuck to Jewish laws, until Roman Catholics came and ousted them. Early Jewish Christians also didn't seem to believe Jesus was God, and some even considered Paul a false prophet. Also, where you'd expect to find the earliest versions of Gentile Christianity (places like Antioch), they leaned more towards Arianism, which also didn't believe Jesus was God. Catholics gave them the standard options of conversion, death, or exile.
Rome conquered Christianity, and transformed it into what it wanted, rather than the other way around. They started the arguments for "just" wars, as well as justifying private property ownership and wealth accumulation.
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@tallspicy Critical reasoning should tell you that ethnic cleansing is genocide, if the natives don't move, because if they don't move, they get killed. Bezalel Smotrich, the guy Netanyahu put in charge of the West Bank, is a terrorist, homophobe, racist, and lunatic, who made public a plan to segregate and subjugate (no federal representation), exile, or kill, any non Jews in all Israel/Palestine.
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@ravenmusic6392 The US is at 62.7%, and the UK at 70.99%, according to John Hopkins and the Google tracker. If being 9 points ahead is "significant", then writing off a point as completely insignificant, is kinda bullshit. Sweden 71.76%, Norway 73.29%, Finland 74.96%, Denmark 78.78% ...
Ummm, yeah, being 95% effective, vs 75% effective, against alpha, is significant. Being 88% effective, vs 68%, against delta, is significant. It means AZ has been having over 2x more breakthrough cases.
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@EricLeafericson Okay. The Nazis were backed by leading German industrialists, who were not socialists, in fact were ardent opponents of socialists, communists, and unionists. Hitler promised those backers there wouldn't be a redistribution of wealth. They allied with other far right parties to form the Harzburg Front. They were European leaders in privatization, prior to an all out war economy. They went after communists, socialists, and unionists, for "illegal socialist activity". They killed off any prominent left leaning members of the party, on the Night of the Long Knives. One of the reasons they gave for hating Jews, is for creating socialism, because Marx was of the Jewish "race". Etc.
The black shirts first went after socialist enclaves, across Italy. The King had enough troops to put down the Fascists, but instead decided to make Mussolini PM, exactly because they had been opposing socialists. The King, and the other large landowners, of Italy, who decided to back the Fascists, were the opposite of socialists.
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@EricLeafericson YouTube not liking some word all of a sudden ...
@EricLeafericson Okay. The Nzis were backed by leading German industrialists, who were not scialists, in fact were ardent opponents of scialists, cmmunists, and unionists. Htler promised those backers there wouldn't be a redistribution of wealth. They allied with other far right parties to form the Harzburg Front. They were European leaders in privatization, prior to an all out war economy. They went after cmmunists, scialists, and unionists, for "illegal scialist activity". They klled off any prominent left leaning members of the party, on the Night of the Long Knives. One of the reasons they gave for hating Jws, is for creating scialism, because Marx was of the Jwish "race". Etc.
The black shirts first went after scialist enclaves, across Italy. The King had enough troops to put down the Fscists, but instead decided to make Mssolini PM, exactly because they had been opposing scialists. The King, and the other large landowners, of Italy, who decided to back the Fscists, were the opposite of scialists. Etc.
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@Historia.Magistra.Vitae. "Fascism repudiates the conception of "economic" happiness, to be realized by Socialism and, as it were, at a given moment in economic evolution to assure to everyone the maximum of well-being. Fascism denies the materialist conception of happiness as a possibility, and abandons it to its inventors, the economists of the first half of the nineteenth century. That is to say, Fascism denies the validity of the equation, well-being = happiness, which would reduce men to the level of animals, caring for one thing only-to be fat and well-fed-and would thus degrade humanity to a purely physical existence. After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application." ~ Mussolini
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@BamBamGT1 Blah, blah, blah. I can't believe all these moronic pro-colonialism arguments. Whatever you call the land, whatever you call the people, there were individuals living there. Ethnically cleansing them, to give the land to people from Europe and Russia, is colonialism. Colonialists are never not the aggressors. They are also racists and bigots.
In 1945, there was a massive land and peoples survey. Palestinians owned 84% of the land in the Jerusalem district. 96% in Hebron. 87% in Nablus. 78% in Tulkarm. 84% in Jenin. 87% in Acre. 77% in Ramle. Smaller majorities in 4 other districts, and pluralities in another 4. Nowhere were Jews the majority. Land was handed to the minority of inhabitants, 75% of the Jewish ones being non-native, and the majority population was ethnically cleansed ... at least enough so that the Jews could be a majority in "their" half, so they could fake being democratic.
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@edwardrosser938 I completely understood him to say ivermectin was an effective remedy, and preventative, on the Joe Rogan show. You didn't even seem to know he said it.
You keep saying shit like this, but who is "conforming without questioning"? I just get my questions answered by the vast majority of doctors and scientists, across the world. An ability to do math, that Dore seemingly lacks, and reading comprehension skills, that Dore seemingly lacks, also help.
Oops, looks like a Freudian slip, there, "I'm beholden to Dore".
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Logically progressive Trump, and his cronies, have proved trolling on TV, or just about anywhere, is a thing. He had Republican presidential candidates arguing dick sizes at a debate, instead of issues. Sam didn't say not to respond, at all, so that's just a strawman. He knows it's an interview show, where two guests are each going to give opinions on things, and what each other are saying. Not letting a troll push your buttons, to get the reaction they want, doesn't equate to not responding. Sam is simply not a Nina, or a Cenk, or an Ana, and doesn't get very riled up when he's a guest on MSM.
Disagreeing with his approach isn't quite the same as making out like he's a racist who needs to "STFU", as in the above op.
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@rtorres4132 I'm just saying I don't know if there's any way to avoid the right continuing to move to the extreme. They could have just as easily gone Bernie to avoid a Hillary or Biden. Instead they went Trump. Even if a president like Bill Clinton covers all the usual right wing bases ... turn deficit into surplus, pay down the debt, lower unemployment, increase police, lower crime, even "defend" straight marriage, etc. ... they just find new nuttier talking points, and elect an idiot like W, and his panel of neocon nuts.
They've even been throwing their own under the bus, for not following the election insanity. Even FOX is now too tame for some of them. The Tea Party, before, did likewise. There's no other direction they seem willing to go.
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These super rich shits, living off stocks, aren't paying as much in taxes, as you make out. It is the lesser rich, with large taxable annual incomes, paying most of the 1%'s taxes. Nobody needs billionaires to continue existing, just to pay taxes. The rest of your argument was about them going to trickle down their wealth, by creating more businesses, jobs, and other bullshit, which they aren't really doing. Their wealth increased by $1.7t over the pandemic. Where's the $1.7t in new businesses, raised wages, expanding current businesses, charities, etc.? They need consumers with money, to exist. Plenty more taxes in other countries, and they keep their businesses there.
Nothing you blathered changes the fact that property taxes tax property, annually, not on sale, when the value is realized. Nor did you change the fact that "property tax" used to tax all property, and was effectively a kind of wealth tax, which worked just fine, before income taxes.
Why would it lower the value of the stock? It would put more stock up for sale, each year, and the value would depend on demand. It would be a way for others, including retirement plans, to buy more of the stock.
Inflation doesn't simply magically rise with money supply, all on its own, dimwit. People with more money want to buy more stuff. Instead of keeping prices the same and increasing supply to meet the new demand, businesses raise the prices until demand drops to meet supply. The problem was, first, allowing for supply to drop so much, during the pandemic, and giving more money to businesses than consumers. If they had given the money to consumers, they would have kept demanding stuff from businesses, who would have then kept up supply. If you hand the money to businesses, then they get paid for not having to sell/supply anything, and they can let supply drop. You're basically arguing that people need to be paid shit, so they can't demand more.
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@jonathanlubarsky2782 You're clearly not very bright. If 20% was 100% of the money in circulation before 2020, and then 80% of the money in circulation was printed after, that's a 400% increase, dumb dumb. You're claiming 4/5ths of the money was printed after. If 1/5th was 100%, then 4/5ths more is 400% more. If you can't do very basic math, then nothing else you say is reliable.
You're also completely ignorant, or completely dishonest, about Musk's stocks. It's not like he started with X amount of Telsa stock and that is what is now worth $200b. He has recieved multiple payments of stocks worth tens of billions. Tesla has just been taken to court over his last 4 year $56b compensation package. Tesla could just have easily handed that to its workers, who were the real people who reached the benchmarks. Other people have been f*cked over, to hand him hundreds of billions.
I stopped reading your pure bullshit, after that.
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@jonathanlubarsky2782 The point is that there was no bonus, that would have only been worth $50k per employee. The bonus was always going to be worth what it was worth. $50b divided by 110k employees, is a $450k bonus. I get that you don't grasp basic math, but do you grasp English? A "bonus" would be on top of anything else they made. It wouldn't be one or the other. There was $50b, that the company could have done with what they wanted. They did not give it to employees, so yes the employees missed out. They did not spread it amongst shareholders, so the shareholders missed out. They did not reduce their prices, so the consumers missed out. They did not invest it into expansion and hiring more people, as in your bullshit trickle down fantasy world, so hypothetical numbers of unemployed missed out. They did not donate it to charity, as in your bullshit trickle down fantasy, so hypothetical numbers of people suffering missed out. They did not cure world hunger, for a decade, so millions of starving people missed out. Nope. They handed it to one person. In what demented reality couldn't $50b have helped tons of other people? Those people all missed out, with the decision to hand that much wealth to one person.
The majority of Tesla employees don't make $450k in 4 years, btw: "The median Tesla employee made $56,163 in 2018, the electric-car maker said in a proxy statement."
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Which came first, Irgun/Lehi/Likud or Hamas? Likud was founded by Irgun and Lehi terrorists. Israel merged those terrorists into their military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected the leaders of both those terrorist groups as PMs. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Likud's platform (1977), "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", promises to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories. It further claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly Iraq.
But, do go on, about how colonizing, ethnic cleansing, occupying, warmonger, terrorists, who operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, "has to protect themselves". Those Nazis sure "had to protect themselves" against ghetto uprisings and resistance groups.
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@rs72098 Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@eddieisfiction That was not at all, all he said (and Trump has dropped more bombs than Obama, btw). He claimed Trump beating Clinton would be better for the progressive movement. He claimed it would lead to Dems "for sure" taking both the house and senate in 2018 (and not just any Dems, but progressive Dems who would advance the "progressive agenda"), and to a progressive president in 2020. Aside from vastly overestimating the benefits, he vastly underestimated the risks, claiming many Republican lawmakers would side with the left, and block Trump's agenda, and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan. He also didn't show an ounce of caring that a Trump (running on complete ACA repeal) presidency could possibly toss 10m of the poorest Americans off Medicaid expansion, or caring to add 40m Americans to Medicare (Clinton ran on lowering the age to 55), but has now crowned himself the one true champion of healthcare.
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@michaelknight2897 "Lastly, but by no means least, Herron finished nearly 30 minutes in front of the fastest male athlete, Arlen Glick. He placed second in 13:10:25.This may seem surprising – after all, there are very few examples in mainstream sports where a female athlete has overcome a male opponent. But, in the world of ultra-endurance sport, women beat men on a relatively regular basis.Back in January 2019, British ultra-runner Jasmin Paris became the first woman to win the 268-mile Montane Spine Race in the UK.She finished the course in 83:12:23, obliterating the course record by 12 hours. She was still breastfeeding her daughter at the time, and even stopped off mid-race to express milk.Paris’s nearest opponent, a male athlete, finished 15 hours behind her.Five months later, British junior doctor Katie Wright won the Riverhead Backyard ReLaps Ultra-marathon in New Zealand. She ran almost nonstop for 30 hours, beating 40 men and six other women."
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Everyone supporting Likud should be censured.
Likud was founded by Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun terrorist group, murderer of civilian Palestinian men, women, and children, murderer of Palestinian Jews (who didn't support Zionism), and bomber of the King David Hotel. Israelis elected that terrorist as their PM. Israelis still celebrate those terrorists, as "heroes", to this day.
Likud was also founded by Ariel Sharon, war criminal, who massacred Palestinian villages.
Likud's original platform, "between the sea and the Jordan" ...
"The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."
There is zero indication that Likud, Netanyahu, isn't still working towards that goal, with the endless colonization of Palestine territories.
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@d3fec767 Aside from his rise to fame, based on complete bullshit, proving he was a grifter, from the get go ...
He also proved he was a grifter, by peddling his daughter's all meat diet as a cure for anxiety and depression, on Rogan's show, claiming he no longer needed drugs, and hadn't taken any for 6 months. That was a few months before being sent to Russia, to be forced into a coma, to break his addiction to the very drugs he claimed he no longer needed.
His drug addiction, and mental health problems, also proved he was a grifter, that didn't believe in his own rules, about putting your own house in order, before telling others what to do.
He is, objectively, a con artist, proven numerous times.
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@user-nc9pc3gr4c Lol, yes, that's what religions have been, Mickey Mouse. It was "ingrained in us"? We used it to explain that the sun was being pulled across the sky by a "god", that rain was product by a "god", that the Earth was created from the body of a dragon by a "god", etc., etc., etc. That we did a stupid thing, for millennia, isn't evidence it's right. Who knows, what came before, if anything, or if things have been cycling in an eternal collapse and regrowth. Your own belief, that a being can exist from nothing, or eternally, without being created, supports the argument that something can exist from nothing, or eternally, without being created.
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@nassaubahamas8570 Because polio is not even remotely as contagious, for one (the biggest polio outbreak in the US was about 50k people). Because covid mutates more, and there are already more variants, which affects the efficacy rate, for another (the original polio vaccine was only about 65% against one of the 3 polio strains). Because some viruses produce a long lasting immune response, some don't, and unfortunately covid is one of the later (polio seems to last your life, tetanus wears off in about 10 years, smallpox in 3-5 years, the flu in a matter of months). Because we're starting from the point of the virus being widespread ... polio doesn't get eradicated from a population in a matter of months.
And, because Gibraltar being 100% vaccinated is misinformation. Some have tallied their vaccination rate simply by dividing the doses given out by the population. Thing is, they've been vaccinating workers from Spain, as well. They only started vaccinating 15+ last month, and hadn't even started vaccinating younger kids yet.
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@HavokBWR Just making sure you're not using some lesser definition, that doesn't even show up in multiple dictionaries, dumb dumb, or you'll get pissy about there not being a single definition. Prejudice: an unfair and unreasonable opinion or feeling, especially when formed without enough thought or knowledge. What's unfair or unreasonable, and without enough thought or knowledge, about trying to make things more balanced? That doesn't seem to make sense, since balance tends to go hand in hand with fairness.
Who is calling for perfectly equal outcomes (please don't be a complete idiot who says Kamala, because she didn't)? And, if they are, how is that hate, exactly? It's strange to have an economic system that requires ever increasing numbers of consumers, that then punishes the consumer makers for taking some time off. Other countries have narrowed the wage gap even more, and have parental leave for both parents. Do those countries hate men even more?
Yes, I know I brought up the example of rebalancing. You, however, found the something to gripe about, all on your own. So, should undocumented men have the right to vote, since that's the big risk and responsibility, in your eyes, even though nobody has been conscripted in almost 50 years, and there's zero indication of a war big enough to require it, in the known future?
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The 30 year old broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. The Justice Dems have replaced about a dozen corporate Dems in 4 years. AOC helped replace a few more in just 2 years.
Dore knob: The most rational thing to do, right now, is to start from scratch, with zero seats, zero bills submitted, zero amendments added, zero votes on even a single bill, and zero relevance, because the third party route is oh so viable. I mean, the most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence, but this totally isn't a delusional fantasy.
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You can say if they win without you, then you don't have any leverage to change things, but how does providing them undying support, and them winning, give you any leverage to change things? If they have your support, no matter what, then there's no incentive for them to change. And, no, them losing once isn't evidence it doesn't work. They may have to lose a few times, to clue in ... assuming they care about winning. If the party is so far gone, so close to being Republican themselves, that they don't really care about winning, then why bother voting for them, at all?
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Yeah, that third number, on the paper said "with covid", not necessarily that covid contributed to the death, like the Dr of nursing practice stated. The second number is the deaths due to covid that the government and media use. That just means some 20k people died "with covid", and not due to covid. No real contradiction in the numbers.
As for the first number, like Sam said, you'd have to look at all the hundreds of other things people die of. If you find about a 30k reduction than average, then there's no contradiction between the first and second number. If they're isn't a 30k reduction there, then maybe covid deaths were slightly overreported.
The doctor of nursing is also wrong, about being able to use UK excess mortality for other countries. Each country is different. The US' excess mortality was higher than reported covid deaths. Unlike the UK, that means people were either dying of other things in higher than average numbers, or that covid deaths were underreported.
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@ubuu7 Taking feedback is fine. That doesn't change the fact that Yang, himself, wanted to replace absolutely everything ... he wanted to completely abolish all those government programs.
If he didn't argue it, then you're dishonestly inventing an argument for him. He constantly argued how to fund things, which means he wasn't simply not arguing that "secret" ... he was outright arguing something completely different from that. Either you're a blatant liar, or he is ... which is it?
Yang repeatedly compared his dividend to the Alaskan dividend, which is entirely paid for by corporations. So, if Alaskans spent all of their dividend back on those corporations, the money will simply have circulated. Yang acknowledged giant corporations weren't paying their fair share of taxes through current methods, and then falsely argued they would through a VAT. So they wouldn't be paying for his dividend, either way. If corporations aren't paying for it, then the money is simply flowing from consumers to the corporations faster than ever before, where it gets hoarded. Instead of taxing Amazon, Yang would have made Amazon extra tens of billions a year, and Bezos extra billions a year.
You're the dimwit cultists who can't even do basic math, like you claim.
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@michaelpeyton5730 Sounds like you don't know how C-16 actually works. You probably got your info from lying Peterson. In the US, you can get charged, or sued, for threatening, defaming, verbally harrassing, etc., an individual. However, you can basically say whatever you want about an entire group of people, like promoting that all gays should be killed. That's crazy. All of those laws protecting individuals, plus things like conspiracy to commit, and incitement, are anti-speech laws, even in the US. No country has unlimited free speech. There's no such thing in existence. Never has been.
Hate speech laws, in Canada, basically treat that kind of speech, against groups, the same as it applies to individuals. C-16 basically makes it clear, that trans are protected, under those laws. You can't get charged, for accidentally using the wrong pronoun, or anything like that. But, repeatedly using the wrong pronoun, intentionally, can be considered rising to a level of harassment, much like your boss, or teacher, calling you "dickhead" everyday. People can more easily understand that "dickhead" is harassment, but less so that intentionally using the wrong pronoun is. The law clarifies things.
That same law, btw, was already in place, at the provincial level, in multiple provinces, for years, including the province JP worked and lived in. And yet, he had zero examples, to support his bullsh*t slippery slope argument. There are still zero examples to support his bullsh*t slippery slope argument. He had been working under that law, for years, so when he made his "alpha" claim, that he'd use whatever pronouns he wanted ... that seemed to coincide with the law, for all those years.
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Ian Miles Get the nation together for what though? Fascists were backed by leading industrialists, large land owners, and most religious leaders. They were leaders in privatization, turning public tax dollars into private profits. They destroyed unions, and argued against the class struggle, telling workers to just accept their lot in life and work hard to try and better themselves and the country, rather than trying to fight the rich. So, they were also capitalists, just crony capitalists ... corporatists ... designing the system to make the rich richer.
Ayn Randian Libertarians readily ally themselves with authoritarian crony capitalists, all the time. Hardly mortal enemies.
And, Nazi style exterminations aren't a requirement for fascism. Nazis took the nationalism and national identity to the extreme, and got rid of those who didn't fit that identity. Wasn't quite the same in Italy or Spain.
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Israelis still celebrate the Irgun and Lehi as heroes. They elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, who bombed the King David Hotel, as PM. Those terrorist groups bombed Palestinian markets, killing many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism).
Bezalel Smotrich, who Israelis elected and who Netanyahu put in charge of the West Bank, had previously been arrested on his way to commit a terrorist attack, with 700 gallons of fuel. He's a religious nut homophobe, a racist who thinks "Palestinian" people don't exist, and made public a plan to segregate and subjugate (no federal representation), exile, or kill, any non Jew in all of Israel/Palestine, taking it all for Israel.
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@ryanhubbard1885 I can read just fine.
You: "The AB stock tanked" (it actually didn't "tank" ... relative to previous years, it was a minor dip) "selling it was the correct move"
Then your panties in a bunch about "correct" not meaning "smart", which is nonsensical when it comes to buying/selling stocks. The smart thing to do, is to buy/sell at the correct time, or you will lose all your money.
And now you're making all kinds of "if" statements, which means you had zero clue, if it was the "correct" thing to do. So, why make a baseless "correct" assertion, when you have no clue, in the first place? Seems like a pointless, baseless, attempt to defend him.
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@mikebanks2176 Are you a hypocrite who worships a penisless "god" being, that uses masculine gender terminology, and transitioned into a human male for a time? Or, are you simply a dimwit, who doesn't know the difference between sex and gender? Gender represents a persona, that often does, but doesn't have to, match a person's biology. The definition of a "woman" is for English class, or social studies, not science class. There are multiple dictionary definitions for "woman", including some you probably wouldn't like. Check out the various definitions given by the Cambridge dictionary.
Even the definition of the scientific term, "female", needs a revamping, because it would exclude people with xx chromosomes, that can't produce eggs. Likewise, "male" would exclude people with xy chromosomes, that can't produce sperm.
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@whyamimrpink78 At minimum, there's the multiple times Proud Boys have been arrested, charged, and convicted, for violent crimes. But, they're just a small group in a larger movement, that includes extreme right wingers, and white supremacists, who are shooting up mosques, shooting up synagogues, shooting up black churches, who are responsible for the rise in hate crimes, etc. Surely you'd want the whole lot labeled terrorists.
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@WanderingIdiot81 Helping to increase the number of M4A yes votes in congress is action. It's exactly the kind of action that would still need doing even if there was a 100% guaranteed to fail performance art vote. Pretending it's inaction is dishonest.
The $15 got a vote, actually passed the house (M4A didn't have a chance in hell), that Pelosi and the squad are members of, and also got a senate vote. Suddenly, just getting a vote on an important progressive policy, and getting a list of no voters, is completely useless ... just keep bitching about, and slandering, those who voted for it. FTVers have proven FTV was a sham, and that they're pathetic useless hypocrites.
The capitol police don't actually patrol the streets enforcing the law. It's more of a security guard and bodyguard force. Pretending they're totally equivalent to a standard police force is dishonest.
Piss off with the Israel bullshit. The squad have repeatedly voted against individual bills to send money to Israel, have introduced bills to put conditions on aid to Israel, have introduced bills against anti-BDS laws. They split votes on an annual foreign aid bill, of which Israel was a small percentage. It wasn't a straight up, Israel only, bill. The bill also included aid to Palestinians, as well as almost $60b in aid elsewhere.
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@WanderingIdiot81 Man, you're dishonest. AOC used her platform and PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A progressives. She has always been friends with, and supported, Cori. The issue with that primary was politics, and the fact that Clay had signed onto the Green New Deal, so she didn't give her official endorsement and donation to Cori until the general. I get that Dore knobs don't care about burning bridges, but if Clay had won, AOC would still want that GND vote.
In what reality do you think Manchin, and the other dipshit senators, would change their minds? If the senate and house disagree, then the bill goes to house-senate negotiation. Manchin could have offered concessions, and lowered the minimum to $10 (as some Republicans had proposed), to pick up enough Republican votes to ignore the squad. Where can the squad get extra votes from, if they lose Manchin's vote? There is the entire Republican party for Manchin to try and draw extra votes from, to the right of the party. There are zero extra votes to the left of the party. They don't have anywhere close to the same amount of power and leverage.
Because corporate Dems outright running against M4A isn't enough? Them not signing onto the bill isn't enough? Again, FTVers proved they're pathetic useless hypocrites. They've already shown that they don't actually value getting a vote and getting a list of no voters. FTV was a complete sham.
Progressives got the $15 to stay in for a round of voting. Not sure what other squad members asked for, but Pelosi did give AOC a shot at that committee seat she wanted. Those who voted, stabbed her in the front exactly because she had fought them and backed progressives against them in the primaries. Dore knobs then stab her in the back, falsely claiming she isn't fighting, even lying that she didn't back progressives in the primaries.
She, and Bernie, were just backing Nina, campaigning for her, promoting M4A while they were at it, and trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress. Meanwhile, Dore abandoned Nina and abandoned adding another M4A yes vote to congress, and then slandered AOC and Bernie, claiming they were the ones who abandoned M4A. He's a dishonest grifter.
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@nassaubahamas8570 Okay, so basically you take no name brand drugs, and you don't use any of the other products those companies make. A prescribed Rogan "kitchen sink", and most other prescribed drugs, plus Rogan supplements, would also be off the table. Have you gone back to the blood letting, hemlock, and wormwood, method, that kept everyone alive for a "long and healthy" 55 years?
Do you also walk everywhere, or have you found an automobile manufacturer that hasn't lost a lawsuit?
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@whyamimrpink78 Again, dumb dumb ... Trump was the government, the head of government, and he (the government) convinced tens of millions of you sheep not to believe any media, any other politicians, any judges, any lawyers, any law enforcement, any election officials, any scientists, any doctors, any nurses ... anybody ... even to not believe your own lying eyes, if any of them contradicted him (the government).
Hearing from numerous different governments that often can't agree on much, different media outlets, different scientists, and different medical professionals, from all over the world, and accepting reality, is the opposite of being herded around by a single government shepherd.
Wearing a seatbelt while driving, just seems reasonable. Wearing a hardhat on a construction site just seems reasonable. Wearing a hazmat suit when working with dangerous chemicals just seems reasonable. Wearing a mask during a pandemic just seems reasonable. I think you ignore warning labels, or prescribed doses, on medication, to prove you can think for yourself, and have taken something that has caused brain damage.
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@101RadioheadCovers Yeah, Netanyahu had to form a political alliance, to stay in power, and he allied with some of the worst extremists. The guy he put in charge of the West Bank had previously been arrested for planned terrorism, he's a religious nut bigot who compares homosexuality to bestiality, he's a racist who says "Palestinian" people don't exist, and he made public a psychotic plan to segregate and subjugate (no federal representation), exile, or kill, any non Jews in all of Israel/Palestine. He wants all of what he thinks was the God given land of Israel, and the map of "Israel" that he has on his wall, includes parts of Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.
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@adaminfinity1733 Absolutely nobody said vaccines were 100%. No vaccine is 100%.
In a highly vaccinated population: There are dozens to thousands of measles and mumps breakthroughs a year, in the US alone. The mumps vaccine is about 88% effective, and about 90% of kids get vaccinated, due to public school mandates. So, here's how a breakout works ... In a population of say 1000 kids, 100 have zero protection, and 900 have 88% protection. That means 100 unvaccinated kids, and about 108 vaccinated kids, have the potential of catching the mumps, if it is introduced into the community. That would be 52% of the cases having been vaccinated.
The more you lower the vaccination rate, the more people would end up catching the virus, and the more unvaccinated cases you'd see. If only 65% of the kids were vaccinated (the US covid vaccination rate), that would be 350 unvaccinated kids, and about 78 vaccinated kids, with the potential to catch mumps. So that's about 18% of those with mumps being vaccinated, but more actual cases of mumps.
A higher percentage of vaccinated people in the hospital is what you want to see, in a highly vaccinated population. Without the vaccine, there would be the potential for all 1000 kids to catch the mumps, and even though that's 0% vaccinated infections, that's what you wouldn't want to see, and which is what you seem to be ignoring.
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@danielarista1352 Israel is objectively the aggressor, btw, by every relevant measure...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@justanotherguy1794 I don't consider corporate Dems, neoliberals, Reps, neocons, or whatever you want to call any of them, to be "left". So, Jimmy is joining with idiots who erroneously call right wingers, like Biden, "left", to argue it's not a right vs left thing?
If Dore could convince the working class, the poor, to vote for someone, wouldn't it be for someone on the left? His PPM buddies are all a bunch of lefties. Or, would Jimmy get them to vote for an anti-M4A, anti social safety net, anti public education, etc., Libertarian, just because the candidate totally isn't a racist, but would like the government to not interfere with businesses' "right" to discriminate?
Republicans are outright working against workers and the poor. Corporate Dems aren't doing all they can for workers and the poor, and a bunch are also actively working against them. Who, on the right, is fighting the class war .. on the side of workers and the poor?
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@jaccl4539 The math, tells you the amount of people you need for a war, ffs. Manchin doesn't need anyone else, in a 50/50 senate. If Dems had 51 seats, he'd have no power. 52 seats, and he and Sinema would have no power. They could be completely ignored. You'd never hear about them, because they couldn't then be a cog in anyone's wheel. They'd have no power to wage war.
Sure, the entire progressive caucus could have held up infrastructure, but just AOC, and just the squad, couldn't. 13 Republicans voted for it. That takes away the ability to wage war, unless you have 17 people on board to wage war. Numbers are everything.
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@SMP1993 So you're expanding the issue from not just one person, and not even the original 4 person squad, or the new 7 person squad, but beyond the squad to some 14 persons. That the progressive caucus could have done something, or 14 of them could do something, is a different argument than the squad, or AOC, being able to do much of anything. The progressive caucus definitely screwed up, and the squad called out those who voted for the bill.
Just so we're clear ... some Dems actually do want to pass some things, including Biden? It's not like they don't care if nothing passes? Because, calling bills "must pass" entirely rests on the premise they actually want to accomplish something, unlike the majority of Republicans who just want to tank everything. Dore knobs often then turn around and make out like corporate Dems and Republicans are samesies, which makes the "must pass" argument incoherent.
So, you think that if there was a 14 person squad, and they could threaten to block the bill, then Biden would get involved and pressure Manchin? So, does Manchin care if the bill tanks, or no? If not, why would he care what Biden says? If yes, what makes you think he'd move left, instead of simply making some other concessions to Republicans, to get a few more of them on board, for "bipartisanship"? His entire argument was that he didn't want a bill that had only Democrat support. Why would he suddenly move in a direction that would lose him his Republican friends' votes? Then you'd have to increase your squad numbers even more, and I still don't understand why you think Manchin wouldn't just amend the bill even further right.
If Pelosi, or the DNC, are getting AOC to campaign for Nina, and getting her to help get Cori, Bowman, and Mondaire, get elected, then maybe they aren't so bad. Or, maybe, just maybe, she isn't doing their bidding, and they are pretty bad.
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Then they're Nazi apologists.
Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@justingaines207 Oh, rofl! Just saw that second comment. Washington warred against a monarchy to install a democracy, dumb dumb. He's, literally, the opposite of what you're arguing for. To compare the two is ridiculous.
Awesome Edward III warred against Scots trying to keep their independence, he started a war that lasted 116 years, drove the country into debt, nobility started rebelling under the strain until he granted parliament the right to tax, which led to even more taxes on peasants, the strain of which led to a massive peasant revolt early in Richard's reign, .... awesomely awesome stuff!!
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Yes, we do. I'm not talking about them making rules for how things should run. I'm talking about when they own public schools, own the NHS or the primary form of health insurance, nationalize and own resources, or whatnot. Real world centrism is in the center, between all out capitalism and all out socialism. An evenly mixed economy, is a mix of half capitalism and half socialism. Yes, I already said they were corrupted, and didn't give up their dictatorship, but a dictatorship is part of the revolutionary path. You know right libertarians also argue fascism isn't true capitalism, yeah?
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@michaelfisher1537 No. You are. Likud was founded by Menachem Begin, terrorist leader of the Irgun, who bombed the King David Hotel. The Irgun targeted Palestinian Jews, alongside their Palestinian brothers and sisters, for not supporting colonialist Zionsim. Israel merged those Irgun terrorists ... child murderers, Jew murderers ... into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, Jew murderer, as PM. His Likud platform, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", declaring continued colonization and ethnic cleansing of all Palestine territories, putting Israel's Jews at constant threat from the native population fighting said colonialism. Israelis have also put themselves in the same boat as the Irgun and Likud, not just by electing them, but by continuing to celebrate the Irgun terrorists, Jew murderers, as "heroes", to this day.
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☝️Why can't you be tagged? Bot? Coward?
You seem to have left out the part where Weizmann told Faisal that Znsts didn't want to create their own state. Which means, what Faisal was agreeing to was a single state solution. It was the Znsts who didn't stick to that agreement.
You also left out that Al Qibla was run by Faisal's dad, Sharif Hussein. He was also likely lied to. But, you have helped prove that the Arabs/Muslims, were willing to open their arms and accept Jws, and that this isn't all about hting Jws.
You also left out how there were already Commodore, Tandy, and Apple, as well as Japanese companies, making personal computers. The world would have been just fine, without an already existing IBM chip being modified in IL.
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@thehappyclam3942 Lol, fascism is a form of capitalism. Capitalism has a huge death toll, dumb dumb. If you're counting famines, and people starving, capitalism is still letting 9 million people starve to death, each year. That's 90 million a decade. That's 6.3 billion, since WWII. Plus, Mussolini promoted pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Asking people to work together for the country, isn't very collectivist, if the country's economy is designed to make rich people richer. JFK told people to ask not what the country could do for them, but what they could do for the country. The first part is clearly not socialistic.
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@tonywilson4713 I suggest you instead see his first video on Israel-Palestine, after Oct 7, in which he threw anyone wanting to provide context under the bus with people outright cheering the attack. He didn't want anyone explaining anything Israel had done, prior to Oct 7, but then went on to explain what Israel would do, in turn, as if they were the defender, just like Piers Morgan. The only things I've really seen him criticize is turning off electricity, and bombing one refugee camp.
His peace plan is very adamant about needing to remove Hamas, but not nearly as adamant about needing to remove Likud. Likud's "between the sea and the Jordan" platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
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@aheroictaxidriver3180 Our brains, and the thoughts they produce, objectively exist. A "problem" may be subjective (based on personal feelings, biases, likes/dislikes, etc.), but our subjective thoughts objectively exist. You know we have instruments, that can map where objectively existing thoughts and feelings are produced in the brain, don't you? There's no magic, or spirits ... no "mystical" gobbledygook ... needed. Everything that's subjectivity based isn't "mystical". People's values objectively exist ... what they value is subjective ... and, if they aren't appealing to magic and spirits, or whatnot, then there's nothing "mystical" about it. But, I get how you might think that that brain of yours having a thought is pure magic.
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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@adamronengorlovitzki3350 Zionists colonized Palestine. Zionist terrorists, Irgun and Lehi, massacred Palestinian civilians. Partition was forced on the Palestinian majority, against their will. Even after partition, the non-Jewish population, of the colonialist Zionist portion, was over 100k more than the Jewish population. Zionists ethnically cleansed about 700k of them, and never let them return. To believe that Zionists had zero intention to ethnically cleanse them would require believing that they had zero intention to create a Jewish state, which is ridiculous. Those terrorists were merged into Israel's military and intelligence agencies, when Zionists did declare their ethno-state.
The leaders of those terrorist groups founded Likud. Israelis elected those terrorist leaders as PMs. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Likud's platform, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", promises to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories. It further claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly Iraq.
Netanyahu has proven he intends to keep that promise. All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by every relevant international body. Likud continues to use the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank ... Move settlers into native territories, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, the poor "innocent" colonialist settlers cry about being attacked by "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel operates an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, then bombs the hell out of it, when there's an uprising.
With partition forced on the majority, ethnic cleansing of Israel's actual non-Jewish majority, and the fact that Israel, the occupier, has actual authority over all Palestine territories and the Palestinians within, but doesn't let them vote for their occupying party ... Israel is actually about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Yes, Israel is a fascist state.
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@vertigo0331 Nonsense. Feudalism, and private property owners gaining monopolies over entire countries happened with zero oversight above them. With next to no oversight, on the US Western frontier, cattle barons pretty much did the same thing, hiring private armies of cowboys, and throwing their weight around ... slaughtering tens of thousands of sheep, tearing down fences, killing shepherds. The US had feudalism right into the 20th century. Little to no government oversight over private property owners has allowed for countless monopolies.
Labor, health, safety, environmental, and other assorted regulations have come about exactly because giant businesses, and their owners, didn't self regulate. We've already done the less involved government schtick, and it sucked for most people. Giant corporations keep lobbying for exactly that, less regulation, but you're under some delusion that will hurt them. They, clearly, don't seem to think so. You'd be just handing them what they want, for free.
Continuing to expand democracy is still the way to protect the people from those who want to lord over them.
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@vertigo0331 Medieval feudalism was a bunch of rich private property owners, with private armies, with no oversight above them, running around doing whatever they wanted. That led to 100% privately owned and operated "governments". Their "governments" were more equivalent to landlords, not governments of the people who have some oversight over private property owners. Just like modern Saudi is a 100% privately owned and operated, purely capitalist, country. "Government" = House of Saud.
And, I already gave a more modern example of how it starts, like on the US Western frontier, as a purely private property, purely capitalist, endeavor.
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@vertigo0331 You get that giving nobility more of a say, instead of just dictates from a king (a private property landlord with a monopoly), is a more democratic process ... giving merchants and yeomen more of a say, instead of just the king and nobility, is a more democratic process ... giving landowning white men more of say, instead of just the king, nobility, merchants and yeomen, is a more democratic process ... and so on, with women, minorities, non landowners, etc. How representative it is also makes it more, or less, democratic.
Just like with a company ... if things are entirely dictated by a single owner, then it's equivalent to an absolute dictatorship ... if it has a board of directors, with an elected CEO, that's more democratic ... if it's unionized, with workers having more of a say and more power, then that's more democratic ... if it becomes a worker co-op, then that's the business equivalent of an all out direct democracy.
So, yeah, you did argue in favor of a more democratic system, and then turned around and argued against a more democratic system. Where's your cutoff? You actually want democracy limited to rich yeomen and merchants, and the poor not be allowed to vote again?
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@jamescooke7243 Rumble is funded by Peter Thiel, the biggest MAGA (fascist) donor around. They don't pay any "lefties", that are a threat to MAGA, to join their platform. They pay "lefties" that constantly attack their viable opponents far more than them, sometimes even say nice things about them, and who push "left" voters towards apathy (all parties samesies!) or towards non viable alternatives (Green!), that will still help MAGA win. You can tell from their fanbase, who they appeal to most. If your main appeal is found on the right, then you're likely saying things they like, more than things they don't.
You know that grifters claim to be selling you one thing, but are actually selling you something else, right? They can claim to be selling you on universal healthcare, but pointing you in the worst possible direction to getting there ... like Jimmy Dore does (also paid by Rumble, as were Tulsi and Glenn Greenwald). If you're helping very overt fascists, who literally tried to overthrow the democratic process, to install an unelected dictator, win, I don't know how you can claim to be a "lefty" anymore.
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@scoogsy No, it's you that's wrong out of the gate. He agrees that science can help us get what we value. Whether I subjectively value going to the moon or subjectively value building a world destroying bomb, science can help me get what I value. That's a given. Unless someone can prove otherwise (which he doesn't), science will never tell me whether, or not, I ought to, or ought not to, do either of those things. That's because science doesn't give a crap, either way. Science has helped us do all kinds of absolutely awful things, as well as the good things.
He does not have all conscious creatures equally balanced. He has a supposedly objective hierarchy, that's pure nonsense, with humans on top. He proves it's nonsense, himself, when he still puts humans on top of an AI that's supposed to be as superior to is as we are to ants. It's a purely subjective hierarchy, with him always valuing humans most.
Yes, you've misunderstood. I'm saying he's a clueless idiot to claim there's a black and white distinction between "poison" and what is okay to ingest, which he did. The fact that we can get water poisoning, which we can't survive without, is the clearest evidence of this.
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@iammclovin1672 Rofl, Hinkle?! The guy had no clue what he was talking about. AOC voted against the individual State Department appropriation bill. She voted against the individual Defense Department appropriation bill. What he was actually whining about, was her voting for the entire f*cking budget, which includes Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, housing, etc., etc.
And, like most Dore knobs, Hinkle doesn't seem to know what was in the final version of the Capitol Hill bill, after it was sent back to the house from the senate, or who voted how on that final version of the bill. AOC actually voted no.
Hinkle's whole "debate" was whining about complete bullshit.
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@geekylove3603 Jimmy is just anti-US government, which makes him wrong anytime the US gets something right, like Ukraine. Russia is the equivalent to Zionists, in that conflict. They're the invaders, trying to reclaim past colonialism, ethnic cleansing, and genocide, done as the Empire and USSR. They're the ones that started f*cking around in former SSR countries, almost immediately, in 1991, and haven't stopped. He's an idiot.
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@AOLAmericaOnline You know that, on top of a colonialist foundation, terrorism, by groups like the Irgun and Lehi, was the next building block in forming Israel, yeah? They bombed Palestinian markets, killing plenty of civilians, including children, and even Palestinian Jews (who didn't support Zionism). Israel merged those terrorist groups into their new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, who also bombed the King David Hotel. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". They literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood. But, when used against them, they cry foul.
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Total tests, and even tests per million, are actually irrelevant numbers that are totally detached from the number of covid cases. It's the tests per confirmed case rate that everyone should be looking at. The US was only testing at a rate of 5 people per confirmed case, for months, and has only recently brought that up to over 10 people per confirmed case, which is still a pretty pathetic rate. Countries, like S Korea, New Zealand, Australia, that flattened their curves fast, quickly tested at rates of 50+ people per confirmed case. The US hasn't been testing fast enough to get ahead of the virus spread, finding the people that person has infected, and getting them quarantined, before they spread it to even more people.
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I think you're looking for the morons who are both anti-Israel and anti-Ukraine, because they're simply anti-USA. This is a both anti-Russian colonialism, and anti-Israeli colonialism channel. Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@TropicalPriest Okay, but he blathered about tinnitus, for example, as if it was some huge deal. Even if you accepted every VAERS correlation report as causation, tinnitus is about 0.003%, meanwhile some 14% of people who get covid report tinnitus ... a thousands of times higher rate. Dore doesn't mention that. He also doesn't make clear that it's only the J&J vaccine, which has been linked to tinnitus, and falsely makes out like "THAT" is what you're being mandated. No. The J&J isn't the only option. Then, he and Max went on spreading bullshit about myocarditis and the UK's healthcare system ... a completely socialized healthcare system, that's even left of M4A, the very thing Jimmy is supposed to be in favor of. It just ends up being a bunch of bullshit, when Dore is all done, and not, at all, informative.
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Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@jakeroper1096 Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure, dumb dumb ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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@repolarrepolar9833 You feel that gender and sex should be the same thing, dumb dumb. Objectively, gender terminology hasn't had to match biological sex, for millennia. The vast majority of Abrahamic believers worship a sexless, penisless, god that uses masculine gender terminology. People have used feminine gender terminology to describe sexless, vaginaless, ships, cars, etc., since they've existed. Gender represents a persona, that often matches biological sex, but doesn't have to.
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@adaminfinity1733 At dosages much higher than those humans can take, ffs. You can probably pour some bleach in a petri dish and stop replication, as well. Peru has one of the, if not the, highest uses of Ivermectin in the world, and also has the highest covid death rate in the world. India gave Ivermectin a go, and stopped, because they found it provided no benefit. Many medical agencies, around the world, advise against using it as a covid treatment. Manufacturers advise against using it as a covid treatment. Ivermectin "studies" have been found to be outright fraudulent, and pulled from publications. There are also other studies showing it does nothing, or even makes things worse.
Doesn't the fact that a number of medical agencies, and the media, have stated that Fluvoxamine looks promising, defeat the narrative that they've been working against Ivermectin, and increase their reliability in saying Ivermectin is useless, or at least unproven?
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@adaminfinity1733 Campbell is outright wrong, that one country's excess mortality rate can be used to relfect what's going on in other countries. The US' excess mortality rate, for example, is actually higher than their covid deaths. Something completely different is going on. That's a very silly mistake, if that's what it was.
He was seemingly wrong to say that covid "contributed" to deaths, in that third number. It literally said "with covid", on the paper. The number the government, and media, uses is the second number, for dying due to covid. The third number means some 20k people died "with covid" but not due to covid.
And making some big fuss about comorbidity numbers that have been out, all along, and deaths with comorbidities widely talked about, all along, was ridiculous. This was a bullshit video, pandering to certain types of morons, exactly like Jimmy.
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@tn2378 Campbell was wrong to state that UK numbers could indicate what was going on in other countries. The US excess mortality is higher than the covid deaths. If you're going to take it at face value, like that, then the US is undercounting covid deaths.
But, you can't really take excess mortality at face value. You have to calculate all the pluses and minuses for other causes of death, to find out if the covid deaths are over, or under, counted. All the mask wearing, etc., could have reduced deaths, due to other viruses. The lockdowns could have reduced deaths due to work related accidents.
That second number, is the official number, used by the government and media. It's deaths with covid listed as the cause. Unless, you go through and do the excess mortality calculations, nothing really refutes this number. There's nothing incompatible with the first and second numbers, unless you really breakdown the excess mortality and show that they are.
Campbell also misrepresented the third number. It said, on the paper, "with covid", not that covid "contributed" to the death. The other video, that Matt mentions, shows how a cause of death report is filled out. Putting covid in the bottom section doesn't mean covid "contributed" to the death, just that they had covid. Putting covid in the top section means covid was considered to have contributed to the death (which is the second number). The difference between the second and third number means some 20k people, that had covid, died of other things, and the covid wasn't listed as contributing to the death. There's nothing incompatible with the second and third numbers.
And, Campbell making out like the government and media haven't been reporting that comorbidities increase your odds of dying, all along, was pure bullshit.
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@LEP021085 Rofl. I like how you have to compare the US to developing, rather than developed, countries, in some lame attempt to argue the US doesn't have a gun problem. Yeah, developing countries have other problems that make the issue more nuanced. Oh, and of course you pull out Switzerland, which doesn't have anywhere close to the same level of gun ownership as the US, and has a higher firearm mortality rate than many other developed countries with lower gun ownership than them. Switzerland doesn't help your case. They have up to 2x the gun ownership rate of Sweden, and about 2x the firearm mortality rate. They have 10-20x the gun ownership rate of the UK, and 10x the firearm mortality rate. The US has about 60x the gun ownership rate of the UK and 60x the firearm mortality rate, 6x the gun ownership rate of Sweden and 12x the firearm mortality rate, 3-5x the gun ownership rate of Switzerland and about 4x the firearm mortality rate.
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@jdelapaz14 Dore promoted Trump (wanted to kick 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion) over Clinton (wanted to add 40m older Americans to Medicare expansion). He argued that Trump was so bad that it would cause a massive progressive backlash. He vastly overestimated the benefits, claiming it would lead to progressives "for sure taking the house (wrong) and senate (wrong), in 2018, and the presidency (wrong), in 2020. He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republicans would join the left and vote against a Trump agenda (wrong), and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong).
He wasn't right about anything. The Obama presidency also gave us Bernie and a progressive movement. It didn't need letting a psycho fascist rule for 4 years to get a progressive movement. In fact, everyone was so scared of another Trump term, they went running they fell for the "more electable" propaganda, and went running to Biden. If he's going to blame Obama for giving us Trump, then we can blame Trump, and Jimmy for encouraging it, for giving us Biden.
Dore isn't right about much, at all, when it comes to strategy.
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@jamessilver6429 He's an idiot.
Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
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@michaels8620 Calling something "performance art" isn't the same as calling it "stupid". It's just a factual description of what it would have been. In no reality would it have passed. There's already a historical record of those who won't cosign, plus a historical record of committee members who sat on the bill, after Pelosi introduced it, all last session. Likewise, for this session. So, it would have been purely for show, right?
"Performance art" is exactly not a hill worth dying on. If you do it, cool. If you don't, whatever. As soon as a certain someone (that you don't want to mention, on a video about a guy spewing that someone's talking points) turned it into a purity test, slandering anyone who didn't immediately jump on board a "fake", "fraud", "sellout", "betrayer", etc., he turned a lot of people off. Part of any good plan is the ability to sell that plan to others, especially those you want to implement the plan. He who shall not be named was a horrible salesman, and his sales team was equally horrible. I think it's less about staying on someone's good side, and more about not feeling it's worth slandering them over it.
The party speaker candidate is chosen by simple majority of the Dem caucus. The entire progressive caucus doesn't have the majority needed to be able to pick the party speaker candidate. The corporate Dem majority could keep picking Pelosi over and over and over, or someone worse. All you'd be doing is paralyzing the house, for an indefinite period of time, until a speaker was elected. For what, exactly? What happens when the progressive caucus does get the 15, or so, more seats needed to become the majority of the Dem caucus? You've started an all out intra party war, and they do the same thing, to you. Then what?
The only way to actually pass the bill is to get enough yes votes in congress to be able to pass the bill. While he who shall not be named was slandering AOC and Bernie for abandoning M4A, as he himself abandoned Nina Turner, they were on the ground campaigning for Nina Turner, promoting M4A, and fighting to add another M4A yes vote to congress. Bernie, Justice Dems, and AOC, have done more for M4A in a few years, than he has in his entire lifetime.
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@michaels8620 Most definitely. FDR would have kept doing what he was doing, even if some loudmouth was calling him a "sellout", for making friends with Charles Murphy, who he had previously called a "noxious weed", and telling people to vote for Norman Thomas instead.
AOC has outright backed progressives in other districts, campaigning on the ground, fighting to increase numbers, when getting enough numbers is the only way to ever be able to pass anything. The bare minimum is simply working for your own district, and not giving a fuck what goes on in other districts.
They never had the numbers to outright remove Pelosi. Already explained that. They could have paralyzed the house, is what they could have done ... no new covid relief, no new unemployment extension, no new child tax credit, no new vaccine funding, etc. ... during a pandemic. Twice before, when the speakership vote was stalemated for a couple months, the house simply adopted a temporary plurality wins rule. So, you might be able to oust her for McCarthy.
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@selvamthiagarajan8152 You don't agree with reality? Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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andresrojas7924 Likud was created by Menachem Begin, a Zionist terrorist leader of the Irgun, who bombed Palestinian markets, full of Palestinian women and children, and even Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism), and blew up the King David Hotel. The other founder was Ariel Sharon, who committed numerous crimes of war, massacring Palestinian villages. Their original platform, left no room for Palestinians ...
"The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."
"between the Sea and the Jordan" = from the river to the sea
Israel doesn't recognize Palestine, dimwit. They keep claiming, like cowards, that they aren't colonizers, because "Palestine" doesn't exist, which is an absolutely moronic argument, that would negate much of the colonizing in history.
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@Thezuule1 As was pointed out ... that was one doctor, in one hospital, in one state, that wasn't one of the top 5, from 2 weeks ago.
Update: More than 580,000 US pediatric Covid-19 cases were reported last week alone, far exceeding past peaks, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children's Hospital Association said Wednesday.
That's a 78% increase over the 325,000 new cases reported the prior week. And the last two weeks alone have accounted for 11% of the country's total for pediatric cases, the groups said.
"Of the children who have been hospitalized or go to the intensive care unit or die, about a third of them have no comorbidities. Therefore, it can occur in anyone," Offit said Tuesday.
"This is not a virus to fool around with. This is not influenza or parainfluenza or other typical respiratory viruses. This virus can cause you to make an immune response to your own blood vessels, which means that you can have heart disease, brain disease, kidney disease, lung disease as well as liver disease," he said.
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@MarkMayhew First wrap your brain around who the actual aggressor is. Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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Alabama Man Special Edition Rofl. Millions of people die of hunger, yearly, and most are in capitalist countries. WWI was all a bunch of capitalist countries killing each other. The Holocaust was actually about 15m people. Japan also killed 3-14 million civilians and POWs. Millions died due to famine, in British India, as they exported food. Japan, Italy, Germany, were all right wing, and started another world war, that killed tens of millions. Millions were killed in the Congo, the most deadly conflict since WWII.
You're in denial.
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@ojo1979 "forcing the vote is one solution"
Solution to what? It fails, then you have to do exactly what AOC is currently doing, and get more pro M4A candidates in congress. If Jimmy has 100 pro M4A candidates laying around, why didn't he pull them out and run them in the election that just happened? If Briahna wants to coordinate protests groups to have M4A protests, why hasn't she been doing that all along? The Democratic Socialists of America, of which AOC is a member, have been having M4A rallies. Where were Jimmy and his posse? The things he wants to happen, after forcing a vote that fails, are already happening. They just haven't been a part of it.
Get out there and put pressure on your district's anti-M4A candidate, if you have one. Protest them, if you need to. Find someone to run against them, if you need to. You don't need a failed vote to do what needs to be done once it fails, anyway.
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@ryanhubbard1885 Trump didn't speed up anything. He tried to make the process harder. In 2019, he had the most border crossings in a year than since 2006. The new migration spike started under him. It only dropped back down in 2020 because the world shut down. Overall, he averaged more border crossings per year than Obama. He sucked at the one thing all the racists voted for him for.
Yes, I say racists, because almost all of the anti-immigrant arguments are bullshit. Undocumented immigrants commit crimes at half the rate of natural born citizens. Over 90% of drugs come through points of entry. Over 80% of drug traffickers are Americans (Cartels aren't stupid. They use the people least likely to be stopped, not the most likely, and don't want their product swept downriver, lying in a desert, or tossed in detention.). Plus, Republicans argue there is plenty of room for hundreds of thousands of extra unwanted babies per year. Johnson even argued they're needed, to keep SS and Medicare afloat. You don't actually need the babies ... just make immigration easier, and get them paying into the system as fast as possible. And, the "replacement" nonsense is outright insane. Most of those people have native ancestry. Europeans crying about being "replaced" by natives ... give me a break. 😂
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@gnubbiersh647 Because there's no moral issue, if nobody cares. We no longer consider women wearing pants to be a moral issue, because people no longer care if women wear pants. Who cares, if they actually care, and why, is relevant.
Matt Walsh is a Catholic. There's literally a Catholic catechism stating that the god he worships is sexless, but it's apparently perfectly fine to use masculine gender terminology, to identify it. Catholics also believe that sexless god transitioned into a human male for a time. They outright worship a trans god. In fact, the vast majority of Christians do. That makes them all hypocrites, when they whine about trans people.
The mere existence of a Y chromosome doesn't guarantee maleness (Swyer syndrome). The gene needs to express, to create maleness. For the first 5-7 weeks, only the mother's X (female) chromosome expresses. Anyone (including Matt and Ben) arguing life begins at fertilization, is arguing we're all female (or, at minimum, all sexless), which makes them trans.
They ignore the fact that there are also trans men out there, beating birth certificate certified males, in sports. Lia Thomas was beaten by a trans man, Iszac Henig, before Henig transitioned. The two effectively swapped leagues. Would anyone have cared, if Henig hadn't transitioned, and continued beating women? Thomas has broken no national or international records. She simply swam during some slow years in the women's division, in her categories. Kate Douglass broke 18 national records, but people preferred to blather on endlessly about Lia. Those people are the ones detracting from the accomplishments of a birth certificate certified female, by focusing on nonsense.
The makers of the movie admittedly refused to go through the transitioning process that would actually allow them to qualify as women. It's a completely dishonest movie. Nobody is transitioning, just to beat women. Hardly anyone is doing it. So, what's your big issue with it?
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@gnubbiersh647 Because there's no moral debate, if the person you're debating doesn't actually care. We no longer consider women wearing pants to be a moral issue, because people no longer care if women wear pants. Who cares, if they actually care, and why, is relevant.
Matt Walsh is a Catholic. There's literally a Catholic catechism stating that the god he worships is sexless, but it's apparently perfectly fine to use masculine gender terminology, to identify it. Catholics also believe that sexless god transitioned into a human male for a time. They outright worship a trans god. In fact, the vast majority of Christians do. That makes them all hypocrites, when they whine about trans people.
The mere existence of a Y chromosome doesn't guarantee maleness (Swyer syndrome). The gene needs to express, to create maleness. For the first 5-7 weeks, only the mother's X (female) chromosome expresses. Anyone (including Matt and Ben) arguing life begins at fertilization, is arguing we're all female (or, at minimum, all sexless), which makes them trans.
They ignore the fact that there are also trans men out there, beating birth certificate certified males, in sports. Lia Thomas was beaten by a trans man, Iszac Henig, before Henig transitioned. The two effectively swapped leagues. Would anyone have cared, if Henig hadn't transitioned, and continued beating women? Thomas has broken no national or international records. She simply swam during some slow years in the women's division, in her categories. Kate Douglass broke 18 national records, but people preferred to blather on endlessly about Lia. Those people are the ones detracting from the accomplishments of a birth certificate certified female, by focusing on nonsense.
The makers of the movie admittedly refused to go through the transitioning process that would actually allow them to qualify as women. It's a completely dishonest movie. Nobody is transitioning, just to beat women. Hardly anyone is doing it. So, what's your big issue with it?
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@gnubbiersh647 Why ignore the fact that there are also trans men out there, beating birth certificate certified males, in sports? Lia Thomas was beaten by a trans man, Iszac Henig, before Henig transitioned. The two effectively swapped leagues. Would anyone have cared, if Henig hadn't transitioned, and continued beating women? Thomas has broken no national or international records. She simply swam during some slow years in the women's division, in her categories. Meanwhile, Kate Douglass broke 18 national records, has won 11 world golds, but people preferred to prattling on endlessly about Lia. It's people like Matt, detracting from the accomplishments of birth certificate certified females, by focusing on nonsense.
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@gnubbiersh647 Why ignore the fact that there are also trans men out there, beating birth certificate certified males, in sports? Lia Thomas was beaten by a trans man, Iszac Henig, before Henig transitioned. The two effectively swapped leagues. Would anyone have cared, if Henig hadn't transitioned, and continued winning against women? Thomas has broken no national or international records. She simply swam during some slow years in the women's division, in her categories. Meanwhile, Kate Douglass broke 18 national records, won 11 world golds, but people preferred to go on endlessly about Lia. It's people like Matt, detracting from the accomplishments of birth certificate certified females, by focusing on nonsense.
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@gnubbiersh647 And then you failed to address the fact that Matt's favorite example is largely irrelevant ... 32nd in the 2021-22 NCAA rankings. And yet, Matt still kept ranting about her, even over a year after she was done competing. Likely still is. So, I've covered that he's contradictory ("I don't care", but I'll do constant videos, interviews, posts, and even a movie on the topic), that he's a concern troll, that he's a liar (you can't just dress up and compete in women's sports on a whim), and that he rants about largely irrelevant nonsense. My take is basically that ... that contradictory, dishonest, hypocrites, are making a big todo over nothing. Have you actually made a point about anything, yourself, Mr Contradictory, who doesn't want to limit the conversation, but wants to limit the conversation? Oh, yes ... that there are men's and women's categories. How observant.
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@gnubbiersh647 And then you failed to address the fact that Matt's favorite example is largely irrelevant ... 32nd in the 2021-22 NCAA rankings. And yet, Matt still kept ranting about her, even over a year after she was done competing. Likely still is. So, I've covered that he's contradictory ("I don't care", but I'll do constant videos, interviews, posts, and even a movie on the topic), that he's a concern troll, that he's a liar (you can't just dress up and compete in women's sports on a whim), and that he rants about largely irrelevant nonsense. And yet, you keep saying I'm the one having a limited conversation. Meanwhile, you've provided zero actual rebuttals, to any of those, and have just whined about me talking about them.
My take is basically that ... that contradictory, dishonest, hypocrites, are making a big todo over nothing. Have you actually made a point about anything, yourself, Mr Contradictory, who doesn't want to limit the conversation, but wants to limit the conversation? Oh, yes ... that there are both men's and women's categories. How observant. And that there's a reason. There's also a reason why you actually have to begin the transition process, to compete as a woman.
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Yes, people doing things wrong don't tend to tell, and yet many still manage to be exposed. Weird, that you've never heard of that happening. There are some on the news every day. None taking hormones just to win a trophy, I guess.
It's a fine argument, since they had much more to gain, than an athlete in some low earnings sport.
Well, that's because you're not very bright. The point is that the likelihood someone would take hormones, grow breasts, gain ED, etc., just to win a trophy, is pretty low. Meaning, what we're talking about is trans women, who genuinely want to be women, who just happen to play a sport, and who will remain a woman long after they're done competing. A tiny minority of a tiny minority. Not some massive wave of men in wigs, that are coming to take over women's sports.
You: "Waaaah, waaaah, I came to a video about Matt Walsh, and to a thread about Lady Ballers, and someone has the gaul to mention them!!! Waaaah! Waaaah!"
That would be one example more than you, correct? And, it's a fine example. The entire point was to pick the one all the transphobes have been going on about. Their "strongest" example. She happened to win in a slow year. She wouldn't have won a couple years earlier. She would have been absolutely annihilated, by 9 seconds, a few years before that. She broke no NCAA, national, or international records.
How many examples would you like to talk about, from the zero trans Olympic medalists in 20 years? From any of the other trans athletes, that even the transphobes didn't think helped their case, so didn't talk about? You've provided zero examples of what we're supposed to be so terrified of, and zero examples anyone doing it simply to game the system.
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@gnubbiersh647 Yes, people doing things wrong don't tend to tell, and yet many still manage to be exposed. Weird, that you've never heard of that happening. There are some on the news every day. None taking hormones just to win a trophy, I guess.
It's a fine argument, since they had much more to gain, than an athlete in some low earnings sport.
Well, that's because you're a little slow. The point is that the likelihood someone would take hormones, grow breasts, gain ED, etc., just to win a trophy, is pretty low. Meaning, what we're talking about is trans women, who genuinely want to be women, who just happen to play a sport, and who will remain a woman long after they're done competing. A tiny minority of a tiny minority. Not some massive wave of men in wigs, that are coming to take over women's sports.
You: "Waaaah, waaaah, I came to a video about Matt Walsh, and to a thread about Lady Ballers, and someone has the gaul to mention them!!! Waaaah! Waaaah!"
That would be one example more than you, correct? And, it's a fine example. The entire point was to pick the one all the transphobes have been going on about. Their "strongest" example. She happened to win in a slow year. She wouldn't have won a couple years earlier. She would have been absolutely annihilated, by 9 seconds, a few years before that. She broke no NCAA, national, or international records.
How many examples would you like to talk about, from the zero trans Olympic medalists in 20 years? From any of the other trans athletes, that even the transphobes didn't think helped their case, so didn't talk about? You've provided zero examples of what we're supposed to be so terrified of, and zero examples anyone doing it simply to game the system.
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@gnubbiersh647 Take 3 ... @gnubbiersh647 Yes, people doing things wrong don't tend to tell, and yet many still manage to be exposed. Weird, that you've never heard of such a thing happening. There are some on the news every day. None taking hormones just to win a trophy, I guess.
It's a fine argument, since they had much more to gain, than an athlete in some low earnings sport.
Well, that's because you're working with one brain cell. The point is that the likelihood someone would take hormones, grow breasts, gain ED, etc., just to win a trophy, is pretty low. Meaning, what we're talking about is trans women, who genuinely want to be women, who just happen to play a sport, and who will remain a woman long after they're done competing. A tiny minority of a tiny minority. Not some massive wave of men in wigs, that are coming to take over women's sports.
You: "Waaaah, waaaah, I came to a video about Matt Walsh, and to a thread about Lady Ballers, and someone has the gaul to mention them!!! Waaaah! Waaaah!"
That would be one example more than you, correct? And, it's a fine example. The entire point was to pick the one all the transphobes have been going on about. Their "strongest" example. She happened to win in a slow year. She wouldn't have won a couple years earlier. She would have been absolutely annihilated, by 9 seconds, a few years before that. She broke no NCAA, national, or international records.
How many examples would you like to talk about, from the zero trans Olympic medalists in 20 years? From any of the other trans athletes, that even the transphobes didn't think helped their case, so didn't talk about? You've provided zero examples of what we're supposed to be so terrified of, and zero examples anyone doing it simply to game the system.
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@gnubbiersh647 Take 4 ... @gnubbiersh647 Yes, people doing things wrong don't tend to tell, and yet many still manage to be exposed. Weird, that you've never heard of such a thing happening. There are some on the news every day. None taking hormones just to win a trophy, I guess.
It's a fine argument, since they had much more to gain, than an athlete in some low earnings sport.
Well, that's because you're working with the single processor. The point is that the likelihood someone would take hormones, grow breasts, gain ED, etc., just to win a trophy, is pretty low. Meaning, what we're talking about is trans women, who genuinely want to be women, who just happen to play a sport, and who will remain a woman long after they're done competing. A tiny minority of a tiny minority. Not some massive wave of men in wigs, that are coming to take over women's sports.
You: "Waaaah, waaaah, I came to a video about Matt Walsh, and to a thread about Lady Ballers, and someone has the gaul to mention them!!! Waaaah! Waaaah!"
That would be one example more than you, correct? And, it's a fine example. The entire point was to pick the one all the transphobes have been going on about. Their "strongest" example. She happened to win in a slow year. She wouldn't have won a couple years earlier. She would have been absolutely annihilated, by 9 seconds, a few years before that. She broke no NCAA, national, or international records.
How many examples would you like to talk about, from the zero trans Olympic medalists in 20 years? From any of the other trans athletes, that even the transphobes didn't think helped their case, so didn't talk about? You've provided zero examples of what we're supposed to be so terrified of, and zero examples anyone doing it simply to game the system.
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@gnubbiersh647 Take 5 ... @gnubbiersh647 Yes, people doing things wrong don't tend to tell, and yet many still manage to be exposed. Weird, that you've never heard of such a thing happening. There are some on the news every day. None taking hormones just to win a trophy, I guess.
It's a fine argument, since they had much more to gain, than an athlete in some low earnings sport.
Well, that's because you're working with the single processor. The point is that the likelihood someone would take hormones, go through the physical changes, ED, etc., just to win a trophy, is pretty low. Meaning, what we're talking about is trans women, who genuinely want to be women, who just happen to play a sport, and who will remain a woman long after they're done competing. A tiny minority of a tiny minority. Not some massive wave of men in wigs, that are coming to take over women's sports.
"Waaaah, waaaah, I came to a video about Matt Walsh, and a thread about Lady Ballers, and someone has the gaul to mention them!!! Waaaah! Waaaah!"
That would be one example more than you, correct? And, it's a fine example. The entire point was to pick the one all the transphobes have been going on about. Their "strongest" example. She happened to win in a slow year. She wouldn't have won a couple years earlier. She would have been absolutely annihilated, by 9 seconds, a few years before that. She broke no NCAA, national, or international records.
How many examples would you like to talk about, from the zero individual trans Olympic medalists in the 20 years they've been allowed? Or, from any of the other trans athletes, that even the transphobes didn't think helped their case? You've provided zero examples of what we're supposed to be so terrified of, and zero examples anyone doing it simply to game the system.
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@gnubbiersh647 Yes, people doing things wrong don't tend to tell, and yet many still manage to be exposed. Weird, that you've never heard of such a thing happening. There are some on the news every day. None taking hormones just to win a trophy, I guess.
It's a fine argument, since they had much more to gain, than an athlete in some low earnings sport.
Well, that's because you're working with the single processor. The point is that the likelihood someone would take hormones, go through the physical changes, ED, etc., just to win a trophy, is pretty low. Meaning, what we're talking about is trans women, who genuinely want to be women, who just happen to play a sport, and who will remain a woman long after they're done competing. A tiny minority of a tiny minority. Not some massive wave of men in wigs, that are coming to take over women's sports.
"Waaaah, waaaah, I came to a video about Matt Walsh, and a thread about Lady Ballers, and someone has the gaul to mention them!!! Waaaah! Waaaah!"
That would be one example more than you, correct? And, it's a fine example. The entire point was to pick the one all the transphobes have been going on about. Their "strongest" example. She happened to win in a slow year. She wouldn't have won a couple years earlier. She would have been absolutely annihilated, by 9 seconds, a few years before that. She broke no NCAA, national, or international records.
How many other examples would you like to talk about, from the zero individual trans Olympic medalists in the 20 years they've been allowed? Or, from any of the other trans athletes, that haven't won anything? You've provided zero examples of what we're supposed to be so terrified of, and zero examples anyone doing it simply to game the system.
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@gnubbiersh647 Rofl! You need a source for people getting caught doing bad things, they were trying to hide? Like say getting caught paying off a porn star? Or the over 250 suspensions for performance enhancing drugs, since 2001, in the NFL alone? Just how dim are you, exactly?
What are you talking about? That would be the ultimate proof for them. It would make them a crap ton of money, and destroy trans athletes in sports, just like they want, if they could actually beat high end women athletes after a year of HRT. I didn't watch it either. What does Ben's admission have to do with the movie plot? Just how dim are you?
Learn to read.
Examples of there being an actual problem, dim one. Someone who has gone through at least a year of HRT isn't the same as a man who hasn't, so you can't just compare men to women. Compare trans women to women, and provide some examples of this horrible situation.
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@gnubbiersh647 You need a source for people getting caught doing bad things, they were trying to hide? Like say getting caught paying off Stormy? Or the over 250 suspensions for performance enhancing drugs, since 2001, in the NFL alone? Just how slow is that single processor of yours?
What are you talking about? That would be the ultimate proof for them. It would make them a ton of money, and destroy trans athletes in sports, just like they want ... if they could actually beat high end women athletes after a year of HRT, that is. I didn't watch it either. What does Ben's admission in an interview have to do with needing to watch the movie? A very slow processor. But, do keep whining.
Learn to read.
Examples of there being an actual problem, slow one. Someone who has gone through at least a year of HRT isn't the same as a man who hasn't, so you can't just compare men to women. Compare trans women to women, and provide some examples of this horrible situation.
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@nish Nope.
India dowry deaths per year:
2020 6,966
2019 7,141
2018 7,167
2017 7,466
2016 7,621
2015 7,634
2014 8,455
2013 8,083
2012 8,233
2011 8,618
2010 8,391
2005 6,787
Women Peace and Security Index:
Saudi 102/170
India 148/170
UNICEF India: "Estimates suggest that each year, at least 1.5 million girls under 18 get married in India, which makes it home to the largest number of child brides in the world - accounting for a third of the global total."
United Nations: "India accounts for 45.8 million of the world's 142.6 million "missing females" over the past 50 years, a report by the United Nations said on Tuesday, noting that the country along with China form the majority of such women globally."
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@goshdang2114 What the ...? Slavery, and all kinds of shitty stuff, deserving of zero respect, lasted thousands of years. That's a dumb reason to show something respect.
It's largely social, because women tend to have less money than men, and yet still seek help more. And that "social" aspect is traditional standards of masculinity. It's all well and good if you want to redefine masculinity, but then you're basically admitting the previous definition was bad. But, then Peterson is telling modern men that women would be happier at home, having babies, filling their heads with the same old misogynistic bullshit that's not going to fly with most modern women. Telling them workplace sexual harassment is basically the woman's fault, for wearing makeup and high heels ... victim blaming. Etc. Giving them this shit view about women, and then basically blaming women for not picking them. Or, blaming the pill for women picking less masculine men. What's a less masculine man, if blubbering in interviews is masculine? He's incoherent.
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@goshdang2114 Yes, they're traditional. As far back as the Civil War, there were American doctors writing about those suffering "nostalgia" (PTSD), claiming it affected only those of weak minds, and that public ridicule was the cure. During WWI, many men suffering "shell shock" (PTSD) were tossed back on the front lines within days. They aren't only hurting men now. Those norms have always hurt men. Suicide spiked during the Great Depression, when many men had a hard time providing for their families, or lost everything they had. With society changing, and women becoming more independent, there are now more ways men can lose everything, or never get what they actually want. They need help adapting to the modern world, help evolving with the times, not "advice" from some nimrod stuck in the 1950s, who thinks the changes in the 60s were awful.
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Anti-Nazi didn't equate to anti-German, dumb dumb. Israel is objectively the aggressor, by every relevant measure...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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You don't want a third party, unless Republicans also have a major split. That's just a recipe for decades, or more, of Republican rule. Conservatives, in Canada, shouldn't win anywhere outside of 2 provinces. But, they do, with only 34-40% of the vote, due to Liberal and NDP (or BQ in Quebec) vote splitting. It would be even worse, in the US, because Republicans get 43-48% of the vote.
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@barbaraklein3944 Likud's bloody 100 year history ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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Also, his argument about being treated "equally" is sometimes exactly what systemic racism is. For example, NYC was stopping and frisking blacks and whites in equal numbers. That means that they were actually stopping and frisking blacks at almost double the rate of whites. The vast majority of charges were for marijuana possession, something blacks and whites do equally. That means that blacks were being charged at almost double the rate of whites, for the same crime. And, that is in a 3 strike state. So, the system was stopping and frisking, charging, and incarcerating, blacks at almost double the rate of whites, for the same crime. The system is stripping them of voter rights, at double the rate. The system might be breaking up families, destroying futures, etc., at double the rate.
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@treeman5274 Is California controlled by progressive Democrats, or are you pretending all Democrats are samesies? If the later, then it seems like you have the uninformed opinion. I wouldn't suggest that any corporate Dems need to be replaced, if I expected them to pass M4A. If you think I've said corporate Dems don't need replacing, then you have serious reading comprehension problems. The most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. If you think the third party route is the quickest route to getting M4A, then you're clearly delusional. The 30 year old broader progressive caucus, with M4A on their platform, is about 10 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. The 4 year old Justice Dems have replaced about a dozen corporate Dems. AOC has been at it 2 years and helped replace a few more corporate Dems. The M4A bill has the most cosponsors it has ever had. Aaaannnd ... Dore and his knobs want to start from scratch with zero seats, zero bills submitted, zero amendments added, and zero votes on even a single bill. Such genius level political moves are hard to comprehend.
Did Pelosi get AOC to use her platform and PAC to back 20 other pro-M4A progressives, did she get AOC to back Nina Turner? If so, maybe Pelosi isn't so bad. If not, then maybe making out like AOC is in her pocket is complete bullshit.
Ah, so "real" progressives don't want to fund the Global Fund to fight AIDS, TB, and Malaria, that has helped save an estimated 38m lives. Got it.
Didn't AOC, Omar, Khanna, and other Dems, join Rand Paul, and other Reps, in urging Dumpty to follow through with his pledge to pull out of Syria and Afghanistan? Biden finally pulled out of Afghanistan, and Dore was bitching about it.
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@ynemey1243 No. You're pulling crap out of your ass. What do you mean my problem? This was Dore's argument, and he absolutely did not argue Trump was better at anything, as part of it. He argued Trump was much worse than Clinton and, because he was, that was supposed to cause a massive progressive backlash. Dore vastly overestimated the benefits, claiming a Trump presidency would lead to progressives "for sure" taking the house (wrong) and senate (wrong), in 2018, and the presidency (wrong), in 2020. He vastly underestimated the risks, claiming even Republicans would join the left to vote against a Trump presidency (wrong) rather than follow him into outright fascism (wrong), and that Trump filling multiple scotus seats was as likely as the moon falling into Lake Michigan (wrong). He was wrong about it all. He lives in a delusional fantasy world.
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@ynemey1243 He didn't make a video supporting Nina in the 6 months leading to the election, he and his wife let everyone know they had stopped donating to Nina, and he encouraged people to never vote for someone running as a Democrat ever again. How the hell does that not equate to abandoning her?
Justice Democrats have replaced about a dozen corporate Dems with progressives. That increases the number of M4A yes votes in congress. AOC helped add a few more M4A yes votes to congress and helped remove a few more corporate Dems. Getting enough yes votes in congress is the only possible way to ever pass the bill. And, if you were wondering where AOC was on M4A march day, she was campaigning for Nina, promoting M4A, and trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress. The M4A marchers could have gone to Nina rallies, to also support adding another M4A yes vote to congress, but they also abandoned her. And then Dore slandered AOC, saying she and Bernie had abandoned M4A. Bernie also campaigned for Nina, trying to add another M4A yes vote to congress. It's just a fact that they've all done more for M4A in a few years than Dore has in his entire lifetime. It's just a fact that he slanders them.
It's simple math, that a third party is a losing strategy, and would benefit Republican most. Let's say you got everyone currently in the progressive caucus to run for your progressive third party and they managed to win the same number of seats. That'd be 94 seats in the house and 1 (Bernie) seat in the senate. Trump would have won the presidency, with Dem and progressive votes split between Biden and Bernie in the general instead of the primary. Republicans would control the senate with Pence as the tie breaker. In the house, Republicans would hold a plurality and only need a handful of the most conservative Dems to work with them to pass whatever they wanted and completely ignore the progressive third party. Even a successful progressive third party would benefit Republicans most. It's just math. And, the actual reality is that the most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. You could be talking a century to even win one seat. It's a delusional fantasy. Progressives would gain more power by simply getting the 15 more seats the progressive caucus needs to become the majority of house Dems, than they would getting 100 seats as a third party.
I don't think you know what a "strawman" is.
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@Unfamous_Buddha Where am I losing you? Tea party pressure also can from giant corporate donors, pushing the party further right. Are corporate Dems' corporate donors pressuring them to be more progressive? No. I'm not talking about amounts. I'm talking about what their donors are pressuring them to do. The Tea Party had become the majority of the Republican caucus by the time they had another party speaker vote. It wasn't some tiny minority taking over the party. And, again, if old school Republicans really wanted to get around the tea partiers, all they had to do was work with democrats to pass bills without needing tea party votes.
I get it. You morons don't actually care that Democrats are in danger of losing the house in 2022. You'd prefer to see progressives in a minority party, and see Republicans become the majority.
Learn some basic math. It is impossible to pass a bill without Manchin, because there are zero extra votes to the left of the party, if you lose his vote. On the other end, there is the entire Republican party to try and get extra votes from, if you lose a progressive vote. It is possible to pass bills without the squad by moving a bill to the right and picking up Republican votes. The squad refusing to sign bills could actually push legislation to the right. Unlike the old school Republicans, corporate Dems are willing to work with Republicans, as the likes of Manchin keeps saying.
The $15 got a vote. It passed the house (M4A didn't have a chance in hell) and also got a senate vote. Wasn't just getting a vote on an important progressive policy supposed to be a big deal? Wasn't getting a list of no voters on an important progressive policy supposed to be a big deal? Apparently not. Dore knobs are pathetic useless hypocrites and have proved that ftv was a sham. Instead of going after the no voters, they just keep bitching about those who voted for it.
Pelosi introduced the M4A bill last session. It died in committees, where 90% of bills die. She has already reintroduced the bill this session. It's sitting in committees. Instead of slandering and bitching about people who have done more for M4A in a few years than Dore has in his entire lifetime, why not try pressuring committee members to take up the bill?
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Part of the problem, here, is that ... even though BLM may get more support from non-black "leftists", on the ground and in congress ... BLM itself doesn't necessarily equate to a "leftist" movement. Many black voters voted Biden over Bernie.
Plus, there is plenty of evidence that black Americans, on average, are charged more often, indicted more often, and given harsher sentences, for the same crimes. Poor white criminals can still benefit from white privilege. There could very well be black store owners being given harsher treatment, for the same thing his mom did, which would mean she still benefited from white privilege.
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@jovanleon7 That qualifies as a totally different test, and doesn't make your current supposed test verifiable. You're simply taking the word of someone who, by all appearances, is a scammer and trafficker, according to the local FOX station themselves.
Ever consider that nobody is taking her to court, because there's no actual evidence that her parents had an 8th child, that they didn't claim at the refugee camp, that didn't come to the US along with their documented 7 kids, and was instead sent to the UK for some odd reason ... because there's no actual motive to fake a marriage, since siblings can sponsor each other already ... because there's no actual evidence the guy even wanted US citizenship, since he up and went back to the UK?
No, they aren't identical, qbert. They're only similar, just like the example I gave.
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@DesignerDave Covid's 1% infection fatality rate is about 10x the influenza infection fatality rate, plus more contagious. It's 2x the polio paralysis rate, 20x the polio infection fatality rate, and again more contagious. It's 4x the automobile accident fatality rate, and again far more widespread.
Should we ditch polio vaccine mandates, and all rules of the road, because those things aren't deadly enough to put effort into reducing them?
Should we ditch smoking laws, extra taxes, increased insurance rates, and a near universal ban on smoking indoors, or is it dangerous enough?
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@ph6794 You're cheering on the aggressor? Israel is objectively the aggressor by every relevant measure ...
Modern history: 100 years ago, in 1923, Ze'ev Jabotinsky fully acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the natives would fight it until the bitter end. He just didn't care what would happen to them, and promoted doing it anyway. Colonizers are never not the aggressors.
On top of the colonialist nature of Zionism, the Zionists also formed terrorist organizations, like the Irgun and Lehi. They bombed many Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who opposed Zionism). Israel merged those terrorists into the new nation's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected Menachem Begin, leader of the Irgun, child murderer, Jew murderer, and bomber of the King David Hotel, as PM. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes". Zionists literally taught their neighbours that terrorism is a valid path to independence and statehood, and that terrorists are to be celebrated.
In 1945, it is well documented that Zionists owned just 5% of the land and were a majority nowhere. Israel was formed by actually going against the majority population. It's foundation is completely undemocratic. Then, becoming a majority, in "their" new nation, by ethnic cleansing the actual majority, and then claiming to be democratic, is utter nonsense.
Law: Israel is considered an occupier by the International Court, the UN GA, and the UN SC. Occupiers are also never not the aggressors. Those occupied actually have a right to resist occupation. On the flip side, it is illegal for the occupier to settle occupied lands, and illegal to use collective punishment. Israel is a rogue nation, that doesn't abide by international law. What it has been doing, and is doing now, is illegal.
Current events: This year, alone, prior to Oct 7 ... Israel held over 1200 Palestinian hostages without charges ... over 200 Palestinians had been killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians had been displaced by Israel's neverending colonization of the West Bank ... and, Israel continued to operate an open air WWII style fascist ghetto, in Gaza. Even ignoring modern history and law, in no reality did Hamas "start" anything.
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What a moronic assessment. If you drop a bomb, knowing full well it is going to hit civilians, then you're intentionally killing civilians. It wasn't an "accident" that you dropped the bomb. It wasn't an "accident" that it blew up the exact place you wanted to blow up.
Israel hides over 400k militants (reservists), valid military targets, amongst its civilians, using them as human shields. Odds are at least one Israeli Hamas killed was an out of uniform militant. Israel hides its largest IDF base, a valid military target, inside a shopping mall, using civilians as human shields. Due to mandatory service, almost every single Israeli is, was, or will be, a militant.
This year, prior to Oct 7... over 1200 Palestinian hostages held without charges by Israel ... over 200 Palestinians killed by the IDF and settlers ... over 1000 Palestinians displaced by never ending illegal colonialism of the West Bank ... and the continued operation of an open air WWII style fascist ghetto in Gaza. Why not say Hamas was responding? Would you blame the ZOB and ZZW for the Warsaw ghetto uprising?
You're justifying the Hamas attack, with your own moronic argument to justify Israel's use of collective punishment.
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Total tests, or tests per million, are totally irrelevant numbers that are completely disconnected from the number of confirmed cases. Countries like S Korea, New Zealand, and Australia, flattened their curves quickly by testing at rates of 50+ people per confirmed case. The US has been testing at a rate of about 5 people per confirmed case ... one of the lowest rates in the world. If what Trump said was even remotely true, those countries should have found far more confirmed cases than they did. Instead, they were testing at rates far beyond the rate of virus spread. You can't contain the virus testing only twice the virus spread rate. If each confirmed case came in contact with say 25 people, on average, testing just 5 other people only gives you a 20% chance of finding the right 2.5 people they passed it on to. THAT'S why the US has more cases. They aren't getting ahead of the virus, and the numbers are now so high it's probably impossible for them to ever get ahead.
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Muslims believe in Jesus. It's Jews that don't. Also, Turkey is what's left of the last caliphate, not Saudi. Homosexuality has always been legal in Turkey, because that was the law of the Ottoman Empire. The west took that more moderate empire, carved it up into little bits, and handed parts of it to religious extremists. In numerous Muslim majority countries, there have also been more secular movements and political leaders. Problem was they also leaned a bit more left, economically, than countries like the US and UK preferred, and were overthrown. Meanwhile, countries like Saudi have been supported financially and militarily, as they've spread their more conservative brand of Islam around the world. Religious nuts in Afghanistan were supported with hundreds of millions of dollars, to overthrow more secular communist Muslims. It's kind of moronic for the west to complain about the current state of Muslim countries, when they had a hand in making them the way they are.
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Native Americans reached a point where they wanted to push all the white people back into the sea. It wasn't simply because they were white. It was because they were colonizing, ethnic cleansing, assholes.
Hamas are just a poor man's Likud, only opposed to colonialism, instead of doing the colonialism. Likud was founded by Irgun and Lehi terrorists. Terrorist groups that were merged into Israel's military and intelligence agencies. Israelis elected the leaders of both those terrorist groups as PMs. Israelis celebrate those terrorists as "heroes", to this day. Their Likud platform (over a decade older than the founding of Hamas), "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", promises to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories. It further claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.
Everyone blathering about Hamas is like going on about Cochise, in the 1850s, when people are trying to tell you that Native Americans are being ethnically cleansed and colonized.
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@AOLAmericaOnline Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan", platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
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Facts: Followers of Ze'ev Jabotinsky formed the Irgun and Lehi Zionist terrorist groups. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering Palestinian men, women, children, and even Palestinian Jews, who didn't support colonialist Zionsim. The Lehi were considered even more extreme, tried to ally with the Nazis against Britain, continued fighting the British during WWII, and assassinated British diplomats. Those terrorist groups opposed partition for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized at all, while the terrorists wanted to colonize it all. Those terrorists committed massacres, rape, and torture, during partition violence. The Irgun bombed the King David Hotel, to cover up that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah. Those terrorist groups were merged into Israel's military and intelligence agencies. The leaders of those terrorist groups formed Likud, and both leaders were elected as PMs. Israelis, to this day, celebrate those terrorists as "heroes".
Likud's platform, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", promised to completely colonize and ethnically cleanse all Palestine territories. It further claims a "right" to all the "Land of Israel" (fictional biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.
Zionism = colonialism, terrorism, ethnic cleansing, rape, torture, an ethno-state, occupation, and operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Or, in other words, Nazism.
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@michaelarmijo4112 What's the point of having a vote, when it's still 100+ votes short in the house alone?
The broader progressive caucus, with M4A on their platform, is about 10 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems, and could then pick the party speaker candidate, and if the majority party could hold the speakership, fill committee seats, etc. Justice Dems have helped add about a dozen seats in the past couple election cycles. AOC helped add a few seats in the only election cycle since she has been elected. She was just campaigning, trying to add Nina, as well.
Getting enough yes votes is, literally, the only possible way to pass a bill. Making out like adding yes votes is doing nothing, is moronic.
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@michaelernest7224 Yeah, Likud (founded by Irgun and Lehi terrorists) seems like it has totally been on board with Palestinian independence ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
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@novaui4014 Well, these ones could have left for vacation without even getting the 8 weeks, like the rest of them did, but they didn't. Cori, AOC, Bowman, and others, have also been raising money, working with charities, and working with state officials, to try and resolve the problem for those in their districts and states. Go bitch about the ones who left for vacation on Fri, and aren't doing anything for the people in their districts or states.
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@kise_ryota For there to be a point of creation, that requires there to be a point of no creation, right? If not, then the thing they're claiming was created always existed, and no god is needed.
Ok, so if that god knows everything that will happen, prior to creation, then once created, the creations can't do anything differently. And, yes, the god would also not be able to interact any differently than how it already knows it will interact.
Take Adam. Adam hasn't been created, yet. The god knows that the Adam he is about to create will have insufficient willpower, will succumb to temptation, and will eat the fruit. The god then creates that Adam, with the insufficient willpower. Does the now created Adam actually have the option, the ability, to choose not to eat the fruit?
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@emgtexas "In our minds", "in our eyes", would be irrelevant to the truth. If, before day 6, g0d already knew Adam and Eve would eat the fruit, then once created, on day 6, they wouldn't have the ability to choose not to eat the fruit, or g0d would be wrong, and didn't actually know.
Think of it like a willpower skill level. G0d could have created an Adam with an indomitable will, but instead knowingly created an Adam that he knew would fold like a cheap suit.
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@emgtexas Because you basically just keep asserting the premise I originally took issue with, without actually resolving the problem, putting us back to square 1.
What we can know ...
For there to be a point of creation, that means, by definition, there needs to be a point when the creation didn't exist, or it wouldn't need to be created in the first place.
It is impossible for a thing that doesn't exist to make choices.
If it is known what a creation will do, prior to it being created, then once created, the creation can't possibly do anything differently than what was known.
For a casual observer of the future, that might not be an issue, but for the creator, that means they knowingly created an Adam and Eve that would fail ... that wouldn't have enough willpower to pass the test.
Same would go for Satan.
Point A: Satan doesn't exist, so can't have made any choices. G0d knows what Satan will be, and do.
Point B: G0d still creates Satan. Satan can't possibly choose to be, or do, anything differently.
G0d intentionally created Satan to do exactly what he wanted did. And, knew he would succeed at tempting Adam and Eve, because he also intentionally created them to be weak willed failures.
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@emgtexas You claimed being deceived has nothing to do with willpower (self control), and then claimed deception led to sin (a violation of what g0d considers proper self control). G0d didn't have to create a tree with a forbidden fruit, and then stick it exactly in the only place, in the entire universe, where the only two humans existed. It was a test (entrapment), like leaving a bowl of candy in front of little kids, telling them not to eat any, or they'll be grounded, and leaving the room. It is entirely a test of willpower. Then have some stranger come along and tell the kids they don't have to listen to their parents, that they won't be grounded, to make it's even more challenging. It's a horrible setup, even leaving off that he created them, knowing they didn't have the ability to pass the test beforehand.
Even if you want to make the odd argument that there could possibly be all kinds of other beings, maybe even other g0ds, that don't require being created ... The biblical g0d created Eden, and Adam and Eve, knowing full well that the snake (if that's what you're calling Satan) would show up. He didn't prevent it. He apparently didn't even warn them not to listen to talking snakes. He created the scenario, knowing exactly how it would play out. It couldn't have possibly played out any differently, than how he knew it would.
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@emgtexas And I have tried to be respectful as all you've basically argued is that your g0d has incomprehensible magical thinking. Zero logical thought to actually solving the problem. According to Genesis 2, it took the dmwt g0d creating all the animals and birds in existence, before figuring out Adam might like another human being to help him. The dmwt g0d, knowing full well that Earth 1.0, starting with Adam was doomed to fail, and that he'd have to start over with Earth 2.0 and Noah, still went ahead with Earth 1.0. He could have just started with Noah, and Earth 2.0, in the first place. Etc. The biblical g0d isn't described as exceptionally bright, or good. Pretty much just a ruthless dcttr.
If other beings can exist without requiring that g0d creating them, then what's your basis for claiming other g0ds can't also exist?
"Middle aged"? He had just created them. There's no indication they had lived in the garden very long, at all. Plus, they were totally innocent, not knowing good or evil. They were child-like. Their father, never even warned them to avoid talking snakes.
Rofl! You believe your all powerful g0d let things go down a road he didn't intend? Again, if he knew the Adam and Eve he was about to create, would get hoodwinked, then he could have chosen to make the smarter, chosen to give them some kind of innate sense that talking snakes are bad, chosen to give them unshakable wills, ... The possibilities are limitless, aren't they? You're turning your g0d into a lame duck ... Just had no ability to do things any other way.
And yet, you haven't given a single realistic scenario that disproves it. I know the version Adam I am about to create will fail. I have the ability to create an infinite number of other versions, some amount of which would never fail. I have the power to toss the snake across the universe. I have the power to hide the tree across the universe. I still create the scenario, and version of Adam, that I know will fail. How is there any possibility of Adam not failing, once created? If there's no possibility for Adam to do otherwise, once created, then he never had an actual choice.
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@emgtexas You said there could possibly be other powerful beings in existence that didn't require a g0d to create them. How can you then claim there can't possibly be other g0ds? If you've thrown away the core ... this one g0d created everything argument ... while still including the existence of magical beings, then you've opened things up to infinite possibilities.
Adam and Eve had just been created. There's zero indication they were "middle aged", especially mentally. They were completely mentally innocent, not knowing good and evil, like little children.
And yet, you've given zero realistic scenarios, that actually get around the problem. Your main argument is the good old, "g0d works in mysterious ways", you can't know how a g0d thinks, garbage. His thinking process is described, multiple times, in the Bible, and he's not described as being exceptionally bright.
Scenario: A and B are planning to prank C, by A jumping out and startling C, while B videos it.
Not long before the planned prank, B receives a text, from himself, from the future. It's the video of what happens. It shows C severely overreacting, tripping, falling down a flight of stairs, landing badly, and no longer living.
If B does nothing, and remains an observer/recorder, things will go exactly the same way. A will never not startle C, and C will never react differently.
If B truly does not want C to be unalived, they have the power to change the scenario. It's absolutely ridiculous, to claim g0d wanted any other outcome than the one he got. An all powerful being could have changed the scenario in any number of ways.
Now, let's say B is actually a g0d, who created C. That means C didn't get traits through genetics or upbringing. C was created, by B, to be high strung and to overreact. Unless B changes their created tendencies, C will always react the way they reacted in the video. Even if B didn't want to change the scenario, B could design C differently, so that they don't overreact. If B changes nothing, C can't possibly do anything other than what was shown in the video from the future.
In a debate about free WILL, you've argued WILLpower has nothing to do with it, which makes no sense. It has everything to do with it. If Adam never possessed enough will to resist temptation, then he never had the option to react differently. G0d both could have created a stronger Adam, and could have created a different scenario.
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@emgtexas Rofl. I didn't say that, at all. I was comparing g0d to the adult parent, who left the children alone with candy, myself. Why would I care if you compared a g0d to an adult? It's comparing newly created, completely innocent, people, to "middle aged" adults, that's nonsensical.
Rofl. You used claiming it's possible g0d didn't create Satan, to dodge my previous point. Now you're claiming you do believe he created Satan. And, now you've resorted to claiming your g0d doesn't know the future of some beings, so isn't all powerful and all knowing.
Yes, because it takes WILLpower to make a proper free WILL choice. If someone doesn't have the WILLpower, to override a potentially negative desire, to make a different choice, then they won't. What does it take to resist temptation, if not WILLpower? It's literally the definition.
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@emgtexas First option: Again ... For there to be a point B of creation, that requires there being a point A of no creation. You're inventing a state of being that makes no sense. To get from point A to point B, one thing has to follow the other, meaning time already needs to be passing to create anything, which means it doesn't require being created itself. Genesis debunks the notion that God sits in some impossible place outside time. He creates things one "Day" after another.
Second option: You just ignored the creation side of things. Point A, Adam doesn't exist. I jump in a time machine, and travel to point B, where I see the Adam I'm thinking about creating eating the fruit. I then travel back to point A, where Adam doesn't exist, so he can't possibly have been faced with a choice yet. IF I now create Adam, using the exact same weak willed design that I know will eat the fruit ... THEN, once created, Adam won't be able to choose not to eat the fruit, once he's actually faced with a choice.
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@emgtexas Your words are meaningless. If time is not passing "eternal" means nothing. No end and no beginning would be us currently at point 0, and there's an infinite backwards, -1, -2, -3, ... And, infinite forwards, 1, 2, 3, ... You're the one creating a beginning of time, which would make God existing prior to that have no meaning. He would have existed for no amount of time, prior to time.
God was also the parent of Adam and Eve. You just argued he was a failure of a parent, knew he was going to be a failure of a parent, and parented them the exact same way, anyway.
If you understand my point of view, then why do you just keep making impossible assertions? It is impossible for an uncreated Adam to make a choice. You keep claiming he can. He doesn't exist, to do so. Once created, it would be impossible for Adam to make a different choice, or God would be wrong. If you can't possibly make a different choice, then you don't have free will. Stop just asserting you do, and explain how Adam could possibly choose differently AFTER he is created.
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@emgtexas This debate is already based on the notion that God can magically see the future. Reiterating that God can magically see the future is an entirely redundant statement.
Day 5: Adam doesn't actually exist. Someone who doesn't exist can't make decisions. God magically sees the future, beyond Day 6, and sees that the Adam he's about to create will eat the fruit.
Day 6: God creates Adam, with the same level of inner strength, and provides Adam with the same parental guidance, that he knows are doomed to fail.
Beyond Day 6: The now existing, weak willed, poorly parented, Adam reaches the point of being faced with a choice. Adam can't possibly choose not to eat the fruit or God will have been wrong.
___
You keep talking as if the entire future, the entire timeline, actually exists already. If that were the case, then nothing would need creating. Also, if God had created everything, including the entirety of time, in an instant, then Genesis makes zero sense. And, if every point in time, including every "decision", had been instantly created, by God, that would also negate free will. The entirety of time would be exactly how he wanted it to be.
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@emgtexas Try this: Prior to creating anything, your god sees that Adam will fail. Does your god then have the power to create things differently? Can he choose not to create the tree, not create the snake, not create Satan, choose a different Adam and Eve design, choose to be a better teacher (you claimed willpower is all in the teaching, that there's nothing inherent about it, which would mean there was nothing inherently wrong with Adam, only with how he was taught)? Or, is your god's power limited?
If your god's power is unlimited, then the future he saw, where Adam fails, was only one of an unlimited potential futures, that would only happen if God chose to create/teach Adam and Eve to be weak willed, chose to create the tree, chose to create the snake, chose to create Satan ... And then he went ahead and created things exactly that way anyway. Your god didn't see an actual existing person make a choice.
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@emgtexas Why are you prattling on about irrelevant nonsense? Doesn't matter what Satan started as, your all knowing god would know what he'd turn into, before creating him, right dingus?
Yes, you said willpower was all teacher. Right, god would be responsible, either way, since he's both creator and parent. "A range of willpower" ... And he knew that "range" would be inadequate, before creating Adam.
They don't f-ing exist, dingus! If they did, then they wouldn't need creating. And, if that's the actual, only possible future, and your god can't make any changes, prior to creating things, then you're now also arguing your god isn't omnipotent, on top of being incompetent.
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@emgtexas Rofl. Ironic opening, considering the fact that Satan "chosing" is irrelevant to the point I made, dingus. The point was that your god could have chosen not to create him, if he really wanted Adam to succeed, and if he was all powerful enough to change the vision of the future he saw. Apparently you're arguing your god is not all powerful, and apparently you are too daft to grasp any points being made.
That takes willpower, dingus, which he didn't have enough of. The entire premise of the story was that they didn't know good from evil, right from wrong, dingus. He chose to leave two innocent, ignrnt, mental and emotional children, that he knew would fail, that he knew he hadn't given the proper skills to, alone with Satan and a tree that would curse them and their descendants for all eternity.
Yeah, the circle is because you haven't solved the problem, dmwt. How can someone who doesn't exist make an actual choice? Or, how can someone who now exists chose to do something differently than what God saw, prior to creating them? Constantly repeating that God can see the future, when that's already a given, means you're as sharp as a spoon.
Even a god's morality would be based on their own subjective likes and dislikes. Your god wasn't required to create pigs, make them tasty, and then declare it immoral to eat them. He felt like it.
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@emgtexas Rofl. Ironic opening, considering the fact that Satan "choosing" is irrelevant to the point I made, dingus. The point was that your god could have chosen not to create him, if he really wanted Adam to succeed, and if he was all powerful enough to change the vision of the future he saw. Apparently you're arguing your god is not all powerful, and apparently you are too thick to grasp any points being made.
Yeah, that takes willpower, dingus, which he didn't have enough of. The entire premise of the story was that they didn't know good from evil, right from wrong. He chose to leave two innocent, ignrnt, effectively children, that he knew would fail, that he knew he hadn't given the proper skills to, alone with Satan and a tree that would curse them and their descendants for all eternity. But, apparently you're now arguing your God didn't have a choice. That he's not all powerful. That the future he sees is set in stone, and he can't deviate from it.
Yeah, the circle is because you haven't solved the problem, dingus. How can someone who doesn't exist make an actual choice? Or, how can someone who now exists chose to do something differently than what God saw, prior to creating them? Constantly repeating that God can see the future, when that's already a given, means you're as sharp as a spoon.
Even a god's morality would be based on their own subjective likes and dislikes. Your god wasn't required to create pigs, make them tasty, and then declare it immoral to eat them. He felt like it.
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@emgtexas That you're as sharp as a spoon, is simply an objective fact, at this point. You don't even seem to grasp how fractions/percentages work. A few choice words, here and there is not half. Either you don't grasp them or you're the one lying. Only two options. Pick one.
What do you think I lied about? If God sees a future where Adam eats the fruit, and you claim that's the actual, unchangeable, future ... That means your god has limits. If he hasn't actually created anything yet, there should be an infinite number of possible futures, all depending on what he decides to do. Only if that future is a possibility, but not fixed, can your god have the ability to change things. You've clearly chosen to give your god limitations.
You made out like point C is an already existing future, which would mean it doesn't need creating. Then, you backtracked and said it doesn't exist. But, then you again claimed that someone who doesn't exist can make a decision. Totally inchrnt.
You very clearly openly stated that other powerful beings, besides your god, might not need creating, before backtracking.
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@emgtexas Glad we agree that you just made stuff up, while trying to dodge that your God created Satan and evil, and then back peddled. How did I dodge anything, when I said even a god's morality would be subjectivity based? All morality is. Absolutely nobody has ever provided a valid argument for objective morality. Even your own god provided a subjectivity based measure of morality ... Love (subjectivity) your neighbor as yourself ... Do unto others as you would like (subjectivity) done to you.
Yes, you repeatedly made out like your god was standing outside the timeline, watching it happen, as if it all existed already. But then when I pointed out that would mean it wouldn't need creating, you stated the timeline doesn't exist. But then you again say your god is watching a future that exists. Totally inchrnt. And, if that's the only possible, unchangeable, future, you've also now provided limits to your god's abilities.
To be clear, I'm agnostic about the existence of gods the same way I'm agnostic about the existence of aliens. However, I'm quite certain that Star Trek, Spock, the Bible, and its God, are works of fiction.
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@emgtexas People who don't exist yet, can't make actual decisions. If a future them already exists, making decisions, then they don't need creating. You're arguing for the impossible, or for non creation.
Uh huh, so your god thought it would be "good" to knowingly unleash evil (tree), and Satan, onto the world. And, your god lacks the ability to make a different decision, once he sees the future. It's not simply a potential future, according to you.
Do you think Greek mythology is fact, or fiction?
Again, you're arguing that your god is limited. Either your god can subjectively pick and choose whatever he feels is moral, or immoral ... or your god is himself limited by some outside force.
Yeah, I know what kind of ice cream I like. Doesn't change the fact that what I like is subjective. Nobody argues that subjectivity doesn't exist. Our subjectivity (likes, dislikes, biases, desires, etc.) objectively exists.
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@emgtexas The point at issue, is prior to the creation's existence and any actual decisions it could make. It doesn't exist. If you say there's an existing future Adam, making actual decisions, then Adam doesn't need creating. If you say an uncreated, non existent, Adam can make decisions, then you're arguing for the logically impossible. No creation or the logically impossible ... which is it?
And yet, you keep arguing your god does have limits, by claiming the future he sees is a fixed actual future, and not simply a possible future. If Satan sits down and bets God that he can make Job deny him ... then God looks into the future, if Satan's suggestion is accepted, and sees that Job would pass the tests (abuse, suffering, and mrdr) ... Could your god have chosen not to pointlessly trtr Job? Was the future seen only one possibility, or was it the one and only fixed future and your god incapable of choosing to do otherwise? In the end, your god chose to allow for the pointless suffering, just so he could win a bet.
Do you think there's some big difference between Thor and Spock?
Now you're arguing your god has limits, again. If your god isn't subjectively picking and choosing whatever he thinks is moral or immoral, then what ... is some outside influence making him? Does he not have the ability to choose whatever he likes?
Love is subjectivity. Like is subjectivity. Yes, I know I like pizza. It being an objective fact that I subjectively think pizza is good, doesn't magically make it an objective fact that pizza is good.
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@emgtexas And yet you haven't provided a single coherent one. "Through his knowledge of our decision" ... Something that doesn't exist can't make an actual decision. You keep arguing we don't need creating, since we're already existing, and making decisions, in the future.
"we can go"? That's not the same as knowing which way we will go. If there are an infinite possible future outcomes, because your god is infinitely powerful and can create, or not create, whatever he wants ... Then, either your god doesn't know exactly which outcome will happen, prior to creating things, or he has picked a single outcome and created that, in which case there's no possible way for a different outcome to happen.
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@emgtexas And I've repeatedly explained that him having the ability to see the future is already a given, and actually part of the problem. But there you go, yet again, just reiterating that he can see the future, of someone that doesn't exist yet, someone who can't actually make real live decisions. You repeatedly talk as if he's sitting outside the timeline, that the timeline already exists, that the decision maker already exists in that future timeline, which would mean he doesn't need to be created. Also, an all knowing god should know exactly what will happen, before even creating the timeline, since you also claim time needs creating. Even your future Adam couldn't exist, before the timeline exists. Everything you've said is completely incoherent.
What are you talking about? He created the devil. Was there no purpose to doing that?
What's "good" about allowing "evil"? That's like saying we shouldn't cover electrical sockets, so toddlers can have free choice. Or, like saying an ice cream shop should offer 💩 flavor, and we don't have free will if they don't.
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@emgtexas Rofl. If you had actually grasped what you read, you would have grasped that she had already eaten, so already gained knowledge of good and evil, before saying that, dingus. Knowing what someone said, and understanding the ramifications of disobeying them, are two different things. God stated they now know good and evil, "like us" (whoever "is" is), and there's zero indication they knew anything of the sort, prior to eating the fruit.
If your god had actually wanted them to live forever, he would have just snapped his fingers and made them immortal. Instead, he borrowed an ambrosia tree, from other mythologies, and created one for himself.
If the snake was the devil, which it says nowhere and is entirely invented by apologists, then why did your God punish snakes?
But, I'm glad you've now reread that your god created the tree, so therefore created evil, and will stop lying about it.
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@emgtexas If it's possible to have both limits and free will, then you don't need to have limits to evil removed, to have free will, exactly like I said. Already been over this, but you argued against it. Now you're arguing for it. Then you'll argue against it. Then for, then against. You are just about the most inchrnt theist I've ever run across.
It also refers to snakes as just snakes many times in the Bible. You haven't got there? You didn't even manage to finish only 2 pages about the tree and eating the fruit? He cursed snakes to forever slither on the ground and get under the heel of women.
Rofl. "Ambrosia" is an immortality giving food or drink, in Greek mythology. Does the tree of life produce fruit that grants immortality? Yes. Then, it's an ambrosia tree. An all powerful god could just make them immortal, or remove that immortality, by thought. The tree is completely pointless. Just something borrowed from other mythologies, like much of the OT.
He had absolutely no reason to punish them. Your all knowing god would have actually known that Earth 1.0, starting with Adam, would completely fail, and that he'd begin all over with Earth 2.0, starting with Noah. There was absolutely no good reason for anything, no point to anything, prior to Noah, in that fairytale. Being all powerful, he could have seen his failure of a creation, changed his mind, and started with Noah instead. He chose failure.
Rofl. God is depicted as not being very intelligent, in the Bible, and also mad. Did you read how he kept trying to create companions for Adam, and then finally decided on creating Eve for him? If your god knew all that, before actually creating them, why didn't he just create Eve for Adam from the get go?
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@emgtexas Rofl. Genesis 1 and 2 have contradicting orders. You can't use Genesis 1 to claim he already created them. In Genesis 2, the one where the trees and rule come into play, it literally says he made Adam before animals. Then proceeded to make animals, so Adam wouldn't be alone.
“It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
Only then does your god proceed to make animals, looking for a suitable companion, but none are suitable.
"But for Adam no suitable helper was found."
Only then does your god decide to make Eve for him.
You sent me to a video, which literally says only your god has free will. You already lost the debate, so no clue what position you're even arguing now. You've repeatedly pulled complete nonsense out of ... I don't know where, only to back peddle. Your arguments defy logic, and the meaning of words like "created". I've listened, but haven't heard any actual sense. You can't even make it through the 2 whole relevant pages in your own fairytale book, and don't even seem to understand the parts you are reading. You've twice now not understood the order of what it literally says (Eve's words after her gaining knowledge, not before, and animals after Adam). You don't even know that "Allah" is just Arabic for "God". Even Arabic Christians say "Allah". It's the exact same Abrahamic god, not a different god. The same god as the Jewish "Elohim". Sorry to say ... that you're about as sharp as a spoon is just a statement of fact. What's to respect?
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@emgtexas You left off your foreknowledge, dingus. If you know full well, before handing your kid the knife, that they will cut themselves, and you still hand it to them, then ... YES, that's exactly what you wanted to happen. Only your inability to know the future, would allow for it to be an accident, and not something you wanted to happen.
Dingus, why give them the ability to do evil, in the first place? Why include it in "what you have"? Your god clearly didn't want us to teleport around, so didn't give us the ability to do it. Then why give us the ability to do evil, if he didn't want us to use that ability? You're now arguing that "free will" is both unaffected by limitations and affected by limitations. Not letting me teleport around, is limiting me only to options according to his will, dingus. You are a great source of endless logical contradictions. 🤣
Rofl. You think they were smarter than that? There's zero evidence of the OT existing prior to the exile in Babylon. Guess what ... The Mesopotamians had a flood myth, a garden myth, a tower of Babel myth, a man made of clay myth, ... No, I don't think they were any smarter than those around them, who all borrowed and shared myths with each other.
Again ... Jesus believed in the domed flat earth OT model, and in the totally fictional global flood. He was an ignrnt carpenter, turned apclps preacher. Do you believe you could see all the nations on earth, from the highest mountain, on a sphere? Or, see the tallest tree from everywhere on earth, on a sphere? Those would only be possible on a flat earth. Do you believe all the stars can fall to earth? That would only be possible if they were tiny little lights within the firmament (dome). Do you believe the moon is itself a light? It's not. Do you believe the Earth is only about 6000 years old? It's not. Do you believe that all of mankind, and all animals, rebooted from one tiny starting point, within the last 6000 years? They didn't.
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@emgtexas You left off your foreknowledge, dingus. If you know full well, before handing your kid a sharp object, that they will harm themselves, and you still hand it to them, then ... YES, that's exactly what you wanted to happen. Only an inability to know the future, would allow for it to be an accident, and not something you wanted to happen.
Dingus, why give them the ability to do evil, in the first place? Why include it in "what you have"? Your god clearly didn't want us to teleport around, so didn't give us the ability to do it. Then why give us the ability to do evil, if he didn't want us to use that ability? You're now arguing that "free will" is both unaffected by limitations and affected by limitations. Not letting me teleport around, is limiting me only to options according to his will, dingus. You are a great source of endless logical contradictions. 🤣
Rofl. You think they were smarter than that? There's zero evidence of the OT existing prior to the exile in Babylon. Guess what ... The Mesopotamians had a flood myth, a garden myth, a tower of Babel myth, a man made of clay myth, ... No, I don't think they were any smarter than those around them, who all borrowed and shared myths with each other.
Again ... Jesus believed in the domed flat earth OT model, and in the totally fictional global flood. He was an ignrnt carpenter, turned apclps preacher. Do you believe you could see all the nations on earth, from the highest mountain, on a sphere? Or, see the tallest tree from everywhere on earth, on a sphere? Those would only be possible on a flat earth. Do you believe all the stars can fall to earth? That would only be possible if they were tiny little lights within the firmament (dome). Do you believe the moon is itself a light? It's not. Do you believe the Earth is only about 6000 years old? It's not. Do you believe that all of mankind, and all animals, rebooted from one tiny starting point, within the last 6000 years? They didn't.
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@emgtexas You left off your foreknowledge, dingus. If you know full well, before handing your kid a sharp object, that they will harm themselves, and you still hand it to them, then ... YES, that's exactly what you wanted to happen. Only an inability to know the future, would allow for it to be an accident, and not something you wanted to happen.
Dingus, why include the ability to do evil in "what you have"? Your god clearly didn't want us to teleport around, so didn't give us the ability to do it. Then why give us the ability to do evil, if he didn't want us to use that ability? You're now arguing that "free will" is both unaffected by limitations and affected by limitations. Not letting me teleport around, is limiting me only to options according to his will, dingus. You are a great source of endless logical contradictions. 🤣
Rofl. There's zero evidence of the OT existing prior to the exile in Babylon. Guess what ... The Mesopotamians had a flood myth, a garden myth, a tower of Babel myth, a man made of clay myth, ... No, I don't think they were any brighter than those around them, who all borrowed and shared myths with each other.
Again ... Jesus believed in the domed flat earth OT model, and in the totally fictional global flood. He was an ignrnt carpenter, turned apclps preacher. Do you truly believe that all the stars in the sky could fall to Earth? That would only be possible if they were tiny little lights, within the firmament (dome), as described in Genesis. In actuality, stars are distant suns, and if one got close enough, it would be the Earth that would fall into it, and it would only take one.
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@emgtexas You conveniently left off your foreknowledge. If you know full well, before handing a kid a sharp object, that they will definitely harm themselves, and you still hand it to them, then ... YES, that's exactly what you wanted to happen. Only an inability to know the future, would allow for it to be an accident, and not something you wanted to happen.
Why include the ability to do evil in "what you have"? Your god clearly didn't want us to teleport around, so didn't give us the ability to do it, didn't include it in "what you have". Then why give us the ability to do evil, if he didn't want us to use that ability? You're now arguing that "free will" is both unaffected by limitations and affected by limitations. Not letting me teleport around, is limiting me only to options according to his will. Zero sense, coming from that end.
Rofl. There's zero evidence of the OT existing prior to the exile in Babylon. Guess what ... The Mesopotamians had a flood myth, a garden myth, a tower of Babel myth, a man made of clay myth, ... No, I don't think they were any different than those around them, who all borrowed and shared myths with each other.
Again ... Jesus believed in the domed flat earth OT model, and in the totally fictional global flood. He was an ignrnt carpenter, turned apclps preacher. Do you believe you could see all the nations on earth, from one spot, on a sphere?
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@emgtexas Even after completely failing at the original free will debate, you keep insisting on proving, over, and over, that there are some serious problems going on, on that end. I mean seriously, my reply opens, "Rofl. Genesis 1 and 2 have contradicting orders.". You didn't even have to open up any replies and read through them, to find it. Now you've just argued that "mankind" was created in Genesis 1, so the Adam created in Genesis 2 wasn't the first man created, and everyone doesn't descend from him and Eve, since the "mankind" in Genesis 1 was told to multiply. Pretty sure that now contradicts other passages. So, why did all the other humans, who were created in Genesis 1, and aren't descendants of Adam ... according to you ... get cursed for Adam being a failure?
Your "genius" is truly unrivaled.
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@emgtexas No matter how many times I tell you that god's perspective is irrelevant, you keep bringing it up. That he can see the future, some way, some how, is exactly what causes the problem. The problem then lies with Adam.
Point A: I am Adam, but I don't yet exist. If I exist in the future, then I don't need to be created. Not yet existing means I can't make any real world choices. However, my creator knows I will choose to do X, at Point B.
Point B: I have now been created, and am faced with a real world choice. If I choose to do ~X, my creator will be wrong. My creator can't be wrong, so I can't possibly choose ~X.
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@emgtexas How do contradictory passages, hundreds of years later, "clear that up"? Biblical contradictions don't clear anything up. They're evidence it's all nonsense.
You've basically got two options for Genesis 1:1 ...
First, he actually creates earth and heaven at 1:1. In that case, you can try and claim that includes the waters, but it makes Day 2 senseless, when he creates heaven again.
Second, 1:1 is like a headline, and everything that follows is how he created earth and heaven. In that case, the primordial waters already exist (like in numerous other mythologies), since the first thing it says he creates is light.
It says, "beginning of what we know". There are multiple hypothesis about before the Big Bang. And, even if you claim that was when time came into existence, that would mean nothing existed "before", not even a creator. To get from point A, no creation, to point B, creation, would require time already existing. It would be impossible for time to be created.
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@emgtexas I'll mark down "if you" as more little words you don't seem to know the definitions of. You are arguing that nothing existed, for any amount of time, prior to creation. That means your god didn't exist for any amount of time, prior to time existing. So, who created your god, since he has a starting point? Only eternity (infinite time) has no starting, or ending, points. I remember when theists used to claim their god was eternal. Now they're claiming he too has a starting point. Weird stuff. Is he like the Egyptian god Ptah, who nonsensicallly created himself?
Water is mentioned before he creates light, and the days start to pass. Before you were arguing there was "THE" Bible. Now you're arguing that, not only are there other versions, but "THE" Bible isn't even translated properly. You can't seem to keep anything straight.
The "primordial waters", or "cosmic ocean", represent chaos, from which the creator god (in multiple mythologies) creates order. Calling it a "void" doesn't debunk my argument. Egyptian mythology: "The void itself was described as a primordial body of water out of which rose up a mound shaped like a pyramid—a benben."
Only 2 original apostles, and supposed NT writers, claimed to have seen undead Jesus, Matthew and John. The only other supposed writer, to make the claim, was Paul. Absolutely nobody else wrote down their testimony. That's just 3 people, not hundreds. I take it you believe in aliens, since you think alien abduction claims are valid evidence.
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@barbaraklein3944 The 100 year bloody history of Likud ...
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they also later founded Likud. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
"Settlement
Settlement. both urban and rural. in all parts of the Land of Israel is the focal point of the Zionist effort to redeem the country, to maintain vital security areas and serves as a reservoir of strength and inspiration for the renewal of the pioneering spirit. The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, they are operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Hamas is basically just a poor man's Likud, only fighting against colonialism, instead of for colonialism.
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I don't think what Hamas did was morally good, or even strategically good, but it's basically impossible to say it wasn't expected. Violence is the most common response to colonialism, and ethnic cleansing. A Ghandi or Mandela response is far less common, but probably the better strategic response, so that there's no doubt who the aggressor is. A violent response allows Israel to act like the innocent victim, and respond harshly.
Ze'ev Jabotinsky acknowledged that Zionism is colonialism, and predicted the native response, 100 years ago, in 1923. The native response is generally to fight, until the bitter end. Israel was also founded on terrorism, elected terrorists, like Menachem Begin, and celebrate terrorists. They were the ones who taught their neighbours that terrorism can win you a state.
Israel is basically using the blueprint for colonizing North America. Send out settlers into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives react violently, the cavalry comes in and squashes the "savage" uprising, the border is eventually expanded to include the settlement, then rinse and repeat.
And Gaza is basically an open air prison, similar to the ghettos of WWII. There was the Warsaw ghetto uprising. Jewish prisoners sometimes violently fought back, too. Not quite on par with a lack of proper healthcare.
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@robbinburns6329 It's called exponential growth, ffs. 1 - 400k deaths is an increase of 400000%. 400k - 900k deaths is an increase of 125%. More people died in 2021, because the virus had already spread far and wide in 2020.
It is no argument that the unvaccinated are still being infected, hospitalized, and dying, at higher rates, even with Omicron. You're uninformed.
All the other mandated vaccines also have a very low risk of severe adverse reaction, and even death. It's still much much much lower odds than the odds of severe reaction, or death, due to catching the viruses.
Sure, increase the insurance rates for the obese, or something ... plus have vaccines. It's not an either or scenario.
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@mimked The downsides are that, if they are allowed to be sold, then that means straw purchases can also be made, getting AR-15s into the hands of criminals and, since 25% of guns used in crimes are stolen, that means the more AR-15s there out in the public = the more AR-15s there are for criminals and, since most violence, including shootings, happens between people who know each other, that means the more AR-15s there are handy, when someone blows their top.
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@2727rogers The system needs to change, but you can't change it from the outside. The broader progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. The most popular third party hasn't won a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence. The shortest path to progressives getting some power, is to take over the Democratic party. At 15 seats away, that's sound about the dumbest time to start from scratch.
What major progressive federal policies have the NDP implemented (don't say Medicare)? Didn't vote splitting, between Liberal, NDP, and the BQ, give Canada 9 years of Stephen Harper? Isn't progressives being part of the same party as more conservative Dems, like having a coalition party, which is entirely a thing in parliamentary politics? Isn't that the smarter thing to do, against a united fascist party, rather than split votes, and hand the country to them?
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@Fuwuzworsh You're the one who replied to me, first, and opened with saying I was strawmanning. How can I strawman you, before ever responding to you? You're incoherent.
Nader changed the Democratic party? The only change I saw was that in 2000, they had a presidential candidate running on climate change as the centerpiece of his platform. Obama and Biden have both been to the right of Gore, on that subject. Gore losing pushed them further right. Likewise, instead of bringing about a progressive wave, as Dore claimed a Trump presidency would bring about, everyone went screaming into Biden's arms. It was an Obama presidency, that ended with a progressive movement forming behind Bernie.
Sure, Biden is a right winger, and letting Trump win, led to Biden. So, the answer is to let Trump, or DeSantis, win again ... let outright fascists who wanted to overthrow the democratic process win again ... because that'll do what, exactly? There's zero evidence letting Republicans win moves Democrats left. There is decades of evidence showing that, when Republicans move things further right, corporate Dems then meet them in the new "middle". There's evidence that a progressive movement can come after a fairly ineffective Dem presidency, and that repeatedly going outright backwards, with Republicans, isn't necessary.
You're both arguing to not vote blue, and then pointing to polls, showing that not voting blue will lead to Republicans winning. Biden simply being ineffective isn't telling people not to vote Dem. You are. You're promoting having a Republican majority, because that'll be sooooo much better.
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@Fuwuzworsh Oh geez. Basically, every economic measure was already trending in the direction it was heading, under Obama. The economy's biggest economic gains came during Trump's first year ... which was still Obama's final budget. Even by Trump's own favorite economic metric, the stock market, it almost flatlined in 2018, when his first budget, and tax cuts, came into play. Then, he had one of the most incompetent covid responses, in the world, tanking the economy more than it should have, and leading to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. Australia's covid death rate would translate into about 20k total covid deaths in the US, instead of going on 800k. It was handing tons of money to corporations, instead of more money to consumers, under Trump, that allowed demand, and supply, to drop, which is why demand is now higher than supply. But, sure, "objectively" better. F*ck off.
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@Fuwuzworsh It is absolutely not a strawman, to point out the math, or the fact that repeatedly letting Republicans win has accomplished nothing but moving the country further right. Sorry, that you find math and facts "hysterical".
Voting Obama, kept McCain and Palin out of office, and led to a progressive movement under Bernie. What did letting Trump win lead to? Where's the massive progressive wave, Dore claimed would "for sure" materialize and take the house, senate, and presidency? Oh right, that was a fantasy.
That Dore fantasy, btw, was based on the argument that Trump was so much worse than Clinton, it would cause a bigger backlash (it did) ... that was suppose to be majority progressive (it wasn't). Now, your Dore knob argument is that they're tots samesies. So, you're arguing Dore was an idiot, for thinking Trump was far worse? Either way, it seems he was an idiot. You also seem to be sticking to arguing he's an idiot for saying Dems would rather lose to Republicans, than progressives.
Voting Gore would have kept Dubya out of power, and put a president with climate change as their priority, in the white house. Gore and Dubya ... tots samesies.
Sticking with Carter would have kept Reagan out of the white house. Carter and Reagan ... tots samesies.
Voting blue works both ways, for progressives. Those who vote against progressives in the primaries still tend to vote for them in the general. It helps them win general elections. You want to split that voting, which would mostly help Republicans win generals, based on some fantasy that letting Republicans win is what will make corporate Dems change, when there's zero evidence that is the case. You want progressives to have fewer seats, be in a minority party, or be in an insignificant party with zero seats. Yeah, sounds awesome.
Consider the primaries the major battle. It's also the election where there's the most room to increase voter turnout, progressive turnout. If progressives happen to lose, then still vote to keep Republicans out, vote to say you don't want the country moving any further right than a corporate Dem.
Rofl, no. Profanity often comes out, when I hear something unbelievably stupid. And, I'm perfectly calm. Your mental telepathy has failed you. Labor force participation isn't the lowest in history. It isn't even lower than the lowest point, last year. Consumer confidence isn't the lowest in history. It also isn't even lower than the lowest point, last year. You're hysterically making up nonsense. Weird how a "socialist" would actually lie, to try and make Trump look better. Weird how you Dore "socialists" promote things that would benefit Republicans most.
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@Fuwuzworsh Rofl. I don't even like Biden, you dimwitted Dore knob. Trashing him doesn't affect my argument. How is letting Republicans win, a strategy? It's a failed "strategy", that has been repeated, for decades, and has only moved the country further right. Like I said, vote for progressives in the primaries, try to increase progressive voter participation in primaries, when more corporate Dem voters don't come out to vote. It's the best place for progressives to win, not in generals, running as third party candidates. But then, whatever the outcome, vote in the general, to say a corporate Dem is as far right as you're willing to go, to say neutral is better than reverse, to keep whatever progressives there are in the majority party rather than a minority party, and then focus on getting more progressive seats in the next primary. All the evidence points against letting Republicans win being a good "strategy", and shows it causing a Dem shift to the right, not left. All the evidence points towards a progressive movement coming about without needing a Republican in power. All the evidence points towards going third party as being a decades long endeavor, to even win a single seat in congress. The simple math of congress is that a progressive third party would need a majority, to ever be able to pass anything, and that Republicans and corporate Dems could completely ignore them, and pass anything they wanted, otherwise.
Dore cites the definition of insanity, but then proposes doing the same thing, that has been happening for decades. Stop letting Republicans win, even if the current Dems kinda suck. Focus on getting corporate Dems out in the next primaries, rather than just letting them lose to Republicans, which has done absolutely nothing but repeatedly moved the country backwards.
What projection? I, in no way, ever promoted Trump as being better for progressives than Clinton. I, in no way, promoted going on a far right white nationalist's propaganda show, just to largely agree with a bunch of far right talking points. I, in no way, promoted allying with psycho ancap Boogaloos that want to start a civil war, and would likely be shooting lefties, if that civil war ever came about. I, in no way, promoted abandoning Nina Turner, an ardent supporter of M4A, just because she was running as a Dem. I, in no way, promoted Tulsi (public option) over Bernie (M4A).
I promote progressives get out and vote during the primaries, getting more progressives in congress, but never letting the country move further right than a corporate Dem. That's called harm avoidance, and I'll take a Chomsky, or Bernie, over a BGJ, any day of the week.
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@Fuwuzworsh Rofl, talk about strawmanning. Or, do you just have severe reading comprehension problems? I pointed out the fact that letting Republicans win has only moved Democrats to the right. There's zero evidence to support any fantasy that letting Republicans win will move Dems left, or cause a massive progressive backlash.
The numbers argument was about ever being able to pass a progressive policy, as a third party. I made different points, and you're just not addressing that one. Are you simply agreeing, yes, a progressive third party wouldn't be able to accomplish much, even if it magically became popular enough to win a seat in our lifetime?
No, letting Republicans win, and jump further right, has had corporate Dems repeatedly meet them in the new "middle", which is then further right, for decades. It's what you're proposing, that has been done over, and over. I'm proposing never letting Republicans be president, or have a majority in congress. You're proposing doing the same thing, that hasn't moved Dems left, that has moved Dems right, again.
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@Fuwuzworsh So, Tulsi being "anti-war" (complete bullshit), wasn't the end all and be all? It's the whole bullshit reason why Dore gave her a pass on her public option healthcare, and still supported her. War topped healthcare, for him, at that point. But, Clinton having no major unilateral wars, isn't good enough. I see. Nor his economy. He wasn't perfectly perfect. I guess we can expect perfectly perfect candidates, like say Kyrsten Sinema, in third parties, right?
How does being disgruntled, not getting out to vote, letting Republicans win, and having them try to toss 10m poor people off of Medicaid expansion, help prove your point? It proves they aren't samesies, and proves letting Republicans win is stupid.
The ACA could actually be turned into a German like system. Private =/= bad. Unregulated private = bad. The government would just have to enforce a low price on basic coverage, make all the basic coverage the same, etc.
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If the majority of Republican lawmakers are trying to overthrow the democratic process, ditch any of their members that accept the results, and try to protect themselves by not having an investigation, how is that not a Republican policy? When they still seem to have Trump as their leader, even though he's still spewing that the election was stolen, and others of them have rallies, continuing to spread that nonsense, how is that not Republican policy? If Republican lawmakers, across the country, try to curtail voting, using the same nonsense as grounds, how is that not Republican policy?
A perfect illustration of your point is that, since the Dems in the house passed the $15, and since most of the Dems in the senate voted for it, that because it didn't ultimately pass, that's a good reason to let Republicans take the house, senate, and presidency, because ... that'll really show those corporate Dems, that voted against it, what's what? Why didn't letting Trump win show them what's what, after Obama? Why didn't letting Bush win, after Clinton, show them what's what? Why didn't letting Reagan win, after Carter, show them what's what? You seem to having some serious delusion, that doesn't match the reality of the last 50 years, or more. There's absolutely zero evidence, suggesting letting Republicans win, moves corporate Dems to the left. The very fact that a Manchin doesn't give a crap, if he tanks Biden's entire platform, is evidence he doesn't give a crap. He'd probably love losing the progressive wing of the party so he, and his Republican buddies, can pass all the "bipartisan" bills they want, without having to deal with progressives in his party.
You say sticking with blue, has gotten the country where it is, but that's not, at all, reality. The majority of voters have not gone out and voted blue, no matter what. Enough voters have stayed home, or voted third party, to let Republicans win over, and over. It is exactly what you're proposing, letting Republicans win again, that has gotten the country where it is. Nothing you've fantasized coming about, by letting Republicans win, has actually come about, any of those times, but you want to let them win again, because maybe this time things will be different. The majority getting out and voting, and sticking with blue, is exactly what hasn't happened. That's actual history.
Let me be more clear, I'd pick a Chomsky over a dozen BGJs and Chris Hedges. Neither are anywhere close to his weight class and, quite obviously, the vast majority off progressive voters, don't agree with them, or Dore.
I'm blinded? You're the one proposing doing the same thing over, and over, but thinks you're going to get a different result. You're the one following a loudmouth contrarian, who makes out like everyone who disagrees with him is a fake, fraud, or sellout, just like Dumpty. You're the one defending a jagoff who has repeatedly backed the worst healthcare policies, has abandoned adding M4A advocates to congress, but passes himself off as some champion of healthcare, who's leading you down a road to never even winning a seat in congress. The same jagoff who had some grand fantasy about letting Trump win, and absolutely none of his predictions came true, and yet you entertain his new fantasies.
The Puritan People's Party is a joke, with one of its main leaders already leaving the "party", because even they weren't puritan enough for him. The Green Party has produced the likes of Kyrsten Sinema. The reality is that you can't possibly get a third party, of any significance, as puritan as you like, or even guarantee a third party won't have corruptible members. Actual history shows that corporate Dems have repeatedly moved right, after letting Republicans win, not left, even after 3 terms (12 years) of Republicans. Just how many years do you have to let Republicans rule, to get corporate Dems to move left, exactly, in your fantasy scenario? The reality of math says that a progressive third party couldn't accomplish much. As long as there are a handful of corporate Dems, like Manchin, willing to work with Republicans, they coukd pass whatever they wanted, without needing a single progressive third party vote. You seem to have more faith in corporate Dems, than I do. I don't think they're very moveable. I think you need to replace them, and I don't see how going third party will ever accomplish that. Justive Dems have replaced more corporate Dems, in just 4 years, than all third parties combined have, in 50 years.
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@Fuwuzworsh What aren't you grasping? Splitting off progressive votes, will allow Republicans to win. That's just math. It is absolutely a historical fact that Republicans have been allowed to win repeatedly, and it hasn't moved the Dems left, in the least. They have been moving right, along with Republicans. What don't you get about them moving more towards the position of those who beat them, not further away from it? Even just talking elections with left leaning challengers, the Green Party is now 20 years old. They have run against them multiple times. They even possibly spoiled two elections. In what way did those election losses move corporate Dems left? They didn't. There's no evidence to support anything you're arguing, and plenty of evidence against it. You're the one spewing falsehoods and fantasy.
Oh right, they're all in cahoots, and no politicians, no appointed officials, nor any of their aids, have exposed that they're all in cahoots. One of the tightest lipped conspiracies in history. And, your "evidence" is that, since something you wanted didn't get passed, that they must be in cahoots?
I never once argued Biden could be pushed left. You're the idiot arguing corporate Dems can be pushed left. I've argued to replace them. I already stated this, but you either have severe reading comprehension problems, or are completely dishonest, leading to you ironically spewing strawmen, which you erroneously opened complaining about, when I hadn't even addressed you. I'll have to assume the completely dishonest part, at this point. I also haven't budged, to the right. I propose suffering through a corporate Dem majority, until they can be taken out in the primaries. You propose suffering through a Republican majority, and no way of getting rid of them, because voting third party won't get rid of them. You outeight propose entrenching a fascist Republican majority, for some undetermined amount of time, until your fantasy comes to fruition, and then unironically claim I'm the fascist supporter? You're hilarious.
Trump was blamed for the current (2020) state of the country, and people went screaming into Biden's "more electable" arms, desperate to be rid of him, so desperate they didn't want to risk voting Bernie. Letting Trump win, having Stein possibly spoil the election, is what Dore promoted, what you are promoting. None of his fantasies came true. There's zero indication yours woukd, either. Your answer would have been to let Trump win, yet again? Because, next time it'll work, for sure.
Stop pretending that a Republican, like Reagan, couldn't change all kinds of economic policies, and absolutely destroy the country for working people. It doesn't take a Democrat to pass things. You're making up more fiction, implying it does.
You're the one proposing letting "to the right we go" happen, ffs. I'm proposing voters get out and vote not to let that happen. Maybe you do have comprehension problems.
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@Fuwuzworsh I, literally, stated "suffering through corporate Dems". More horrible? Such as? (Weird, how you Dore "socialists" keep making out like Republicans are better. Are you sure you're not one of his far right fans, pretending to be a lefty? Hard to tell with Dore knobs.)
Right wing Dems voting for another round of covid relief is better than every single Republican voting against it. Having a pro vaccine, and pro other covid regulations, leadership, is better than a completely incompetent, anti- everything, encouraging uprisings against governors, "it is what it is", "leadership". Even simply having leadership not trying to toss 10m+ poor people off of Medicaid expansion, is better than leadership trying to. Restoring some environmental protections is better than removing them. Restoring funding to clinics that simply refer women to abortion clinics is better than stripping their funding. Etc. Etc. (There's a bunch of Trump bullshit that Biden quickly reversed, that's better.)
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@Fuwuzworsh Yes, it is possible, hence the fact that there are progressives in congress. DNC shenanigans can't overcome overwhelming numbers. Nina's campaign team, for example, didn't do any canvassing, to get people out to vote. There were hundreds of thousands more potential voters in that district. Barely 70k came out for the primary, and she lost by only 4k. Yes, the corporate Dems, and their allies, threw everything they had, at her, but she had twice as much money, and could have stomped her opponent. Her team blew her money on media ads, and barely spent a dime on canvassing. That's how AOC won her district ... canvassing, canvassing, canvassing ... and barely spent a dime on media ads. Not that it matters to you Dore knobs, since King Jimmy abandoned her ... abandoned adding another M4A advocate to congress ... because that's what "real" M4A supporters do.
Hate to tell you, but the "liberal" brand was destroyed, already. And, they didn't do it on their own. Islamophobes started bashing the hell out of "liberals" after 9/11. Republicans always try to convert normal words into insults. Even Dore is using the word like an insult. Why do you still want to use "liberal", for branding? That sounds dumb.
Stop pretending like Republicans couldn't get NAFTA done. Reagan had already signed a deal with Canada. Bush Sr was headed for a seperate deal with Mexico. Canadian conservatives then came in late and wanted in, to merge the deals into a 3 way deal. Bush Sr simply ran out of time. The deal was passed by a Republican majority. The majority of Dems voted against it. Stop your fiction. Republicans would have passed it, just fine, without a Dem president.
You seriously think NAFTA and Glass-Steagall were worse than the Reaganomics' trickle down myth, and the massive amount of deregulation Reagan pulled off? Reagan had a big hand in destroying the healthcare system, making it so unaffordable, but now healthcare isn't the end all and be all, for you lot. The messaging from Dore, and his knobs, is incoherent. One second anti-war is the end all and be all, and passes are given for shittier healthcare policies, as long as the candidate lies about being anti-war. The next second, healthcare is the end all and be all, and no passes are given, not even for simple strategy disagreement ... anyone who disagrees on strategy is a "fake", "fraud", "sellout", "betrayer", blah blah. Now, you're telling me that neither of those is of primary importance. Now, it's a foreign trade deal, and one specific deregulation that are far worse than the tons of deregulation in the 12 years before, far worse than making healthcare unaffordable, far worse than warmongering. Get your priorities in some coherent order. And, maybe add climate change, as a priority. Republicans have repeatedly rolled back environmental protections, and many still pretend like it's not a thing.
Republicans wouldn't have even tried to change the healthcare system, at all. The ACA not only flattened the rate prices were increasing yearly, a little, it also added 10m poor Americans to Medicaid expansion. Numerous Republican states opted out of Medicaid expansion, for their citizens. The ACA, in no f*cking way, is more conservative than what there was before, and red states turning down more Medicaid for their poor, sure isn't samesies, let alone anywhere close to being better. I'm pretty sure you're one of Dore's far right fans, at this point.
Again, vote blue works both ways. Those who vote against progressives in the primaries, tend to vote for them in the generals. It's exactly what every progressive would have wanted, if Bernie had won the primaries. It's how progressives can beat Republicans, in some tighter districts. I get it, "real" progressives don't actually want any progressives in congress, and want Republicans to rule, for decades to come. So very brave of you, to offer up poor people to be thrown of healthcare, and other, benefits. So very brave of you to offer up going completely backwards on climate change. So very brave of you to offer up those targetted by racist and bigoted policies. All for some misplaced faith you have in corporate Dems, changing their ways. If only a leftist third party can spoil an election for them (already possibly happened, twice), then they will see the light (they didn't).
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@Fuwuzworsh No. The fact is that Reagan had already signed a trade deal, with Canada, which was the starting point. The fact is that Bush was working on a seperate trade deal with Mexico. The fact is that it was Canada who then came in and wanted to merge the deals into a three way deal, which pushed negotiations passed the end of Bush's first term. If Bush had a second term, there's zero evidence negotiations would have magically failed and the three way deal wouldn't have gone through as planned. Everything was already in the works, and supported by the majority of Republican lawmakers. There's zero evidence it required a Democrat to finalize the deal. That's totally fiction, on your part.
In 1980, US healthcare costs were rising on par with other developed nations. They started spiking before the end of Reagan's time in office. If US healthcare costs were half what they are now, that would be less incentive for businesses to move elsewhere. If US healthcare costs were half what they are now, people could better afford to weather a drop in property prices. You know Canada also lost some factories to Mexico, right? However, they don't have hundreds of thousands of people going bankrupt over healthcare costs. They don't have tens of thousands of people dying due to a lack of healthcare coverage. They don't have over a million people, like cancer victims traveling to India for chemo, for affordable healthcare. Etc. But hey, no, healthcare is suddenly now way down the list of importance, for Dore knobs.
Neutering Glass-Steagall was not directly responsible for the 2008 crash. It was responsible for banks becoming "too big to fail", but had little to do with the housing market. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, was a Republican bill. Almost every single Republican lawmaker voted for it. Why the hell would a Republican president have been unable to sign it into law? Would his hand have magically dropped off, or something, if he tried to sign it? You make zero sense, claiming a Dem president was required, to do this or that. If Republicans wanted to pass it, but somehow couldn't, what was the obstacle?
Have you looked at John McCain's voting record, who he picked as a VP, etc.?
You clearly don't know what an "ad hominem" actually is. You should refrain from using the term.
Nina has been on multiple progressive channels, since her loss. There's zero evidence she still "loves" Jimmy, since he publicly abandoned her. Some video of Jimmy's wife, talking to her sometime before they publicly abandoned her, isn't evidence she still does. Most people aren't fond of being publicly abandoned. She seems to be on the "fake", "fraud", "sellout", progressive channels, rather than his. Seems to indicate she loves those who supported her to the end, more.
Again, I'm the one who wants to replace M4A no votes with M4A yes votes. Your the one that doesn't want even a single M4A yes vote in congress, and wants to let Republicans rule for decades to come. You're the one supporting an idiot who promoted tossing 10m of the poorest Americans off of Medicaid expansion, as the better option.
Republicans are not the party of workers. Their healthcare plan will be out in a couple weeks (repeat this for years). Every single one voted against a national $15 minimum, or it would have passed. You're making up nonsense. Sounding even more like a far right fan, with every post.
I know exactly who corporate Democrats are. I'm the one who wants to keep replacing them with more progressives ... force them out ... toss them in a ditch. You're the one actually proposing a fantasy that you can move them left, by letting them lose, even though there's zero evidence of their previous losses moving them left.
Again ... blue, no matter who, works both ways, and is how some progressives manage to win their seats. It's the only possible way Bernie could have won a general election. I can only assume you never wanted Bernie to win.
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@Fuwuzworsh Even if the broader progressive caucus isn't puritan enough, for you, the Justice Dems, who don't take any corporate donations, have won more seats in 4 years, than the most popular third party has in 50. AOC, alone, won more seats, in her first year, than the most popular third party has in 50. Even just 1 seat is immeasurably times better than zero seats, zero bills, zero amendments, zero votes, zero influence, ...
They didn't know shit. They were brainwashed by lying scum Republican leadership, that the election had been stolen. Their cult leader tried to overthrow the democratic process and install himself as an unelected dictator, and you're lumping the other guy amongst the worst authoritarians in history, because of what? Masks, vaccines, or some stupid nonsensical bullshit? You're a right wing loon, faking being progressive.
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@Fuwuzworsh Rofl. You say I don't grasp things, but I'm the one, literally, calling them "corporate Dems", and I'm the one who doesn't think corporate Dems are changeable. They need to be replaced. You're the one promoting some fantasy, where they suddenly see the light, and change their ways, after losing an election (which has never happened anytime they've previously lost elections).
A cult is when one loudmouth convinces tens of millions of people not to believe any other politicians, any election officials, any judges, any lawyers, any scientists, any doctors, any media ... even to not believe their own lying eyes, if they contradict the words of their supreme leader. Yeah, the Trump cult is a cult. You're definitely one of Dore's far right fans.
There are already vaccine mandates for public school kids. There are already vaccine mandates for immigrants. You have to show ID to drink, drive, smoke, gamble, hunt, fish, carry a gun, etc., etc. The law makes you cover your junk in public. Businesses can require shirts, shoes, suits, ties, or whatever dress code. They can require their own ID, membership. Schools can have dress codes. You're clearly deranged and making a mountain out of a molehill. Did you know that Australia's covid death rate would translate into about 20k total US covid deaths? Instead, it's pushing 800k ... over 700k unnecessary deaths and you're crying about things that have already been going on for decades and decades.
Listening to a broad, worldwide, consensus of the vast majority of scientists and doctors, is exactly not like a cult, that hangs on the word of a single, or very few, uninformed dufus. Seems like you're a fan of two cult leaders.
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@Fuwuzworsh Which Republicans aren't "professional elites"? What are some pro worker Republican policies?
Yeah, fascists tend to draw in disgruntled members of society, by blaming others for all their woes. Guess what, they don't end up doing anything for them. Dore is the kind of "leftist" that ends up on the wrong side of a Night of the Long Knives, dabbling with extremist ancap Boogaloos, that want to start a civil war, and white nationalists, like Tucker. They'd be shooting a lot of leftists, and minorities, if they ever got their civil war.
Republicans voted against a public option. Republicans all voted against the $15. Oh sure, they'll end listening to doctors and scientists, just like they've done with climate change. Freedumb!!
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@Fuwuzworsh Again, like I said, even if the broader progressive caucus isn't puritan enough, for you, a dozen Justice Dems, that don't take any corporate donations, is still an immeasurably better start, than starting from scratch, with a fantasy scenario. As for the broader progressive caucus, a minority doesn't have the power to pass anything they want, they don't have the power to block bipartisan bills that don't need their votes to pass. They can block some highly partisan bills, but that's it. So, if a Manchin doesn't care if that highly partisan bill gets passed, you want to see progressives take an all, or nothing, stance, and likely get absolutely nothing. You want to see mainstream media (mainstream = the media the majority of Americans consume) blaming progressives, over, and over, and over, for nothing getting passed, and think that will benefit progressives?
Once again, you show your "bravery", your willingness to sacrifice those without clean drinking water getting clean drinking water; your willingness to sacrifice those without broadband getting broadband; your willingness to sacrifice making even small improvements for the environment and stick to the do absolutely nothing about climate change status quo; your willingness to sacrifice poor families having a hard time paying for childcare getting free childcare; your willingness to sacrifice the elderly, and disabled, getting home care benefits; your willingness to sacrifice the homeless, and those struggling with housing, getting more affordable housing; your willingness to sacrifice hungry children getting food; your willingness to sacrifice those who need hearing aids getting free hearing aids; etc; etc; etc. Your "I'm taking my ball and going home, because I didn't get exactly what I wanted" attitude, is so incredibly "brave". So much better, for the poor, hungry, homeless, elderly, and disabled, to get absolutely nothing, at all, than to get small improvements.
Wait ... what? You harped on me about mentioning the mathematical reality of needing a majority, and now your fantasy is to completely replaced the Democratic party with some perfectly perfect puritan progressive party ... which would mean replacing the current majority. You repeatedly argued that you wouldn't need a majority, that you'd just have to make them lose enough, to force them to change (that decades of history doesn't support). Now your fantasy is to not only magically get all progressive votes, but all Democratic party votes? That's pretty ambitious, I must say. Incredibly unrealistic, and you're seeming incoherent, but ambitious nine the less.
Yes, they have been challenged by the left, in primaries (when the majority of progressives do their voting), and lost to a number of progressives. Whether you accept there's 100, a dozen, 8, or even 1, progressives in congress, all those numbers are better than zero. If you don't accept there are any, then you're likely too puritan, and unlikely to work with the vast majority of other progressives, to ever accomplish anything.
The constitutionality of vaccine mandates have been challenged before. None were found to be unconstitutional. You don't get a vaccine, you can't go to public school, but can go to private school = you don't get a vaccine, you can't go to work, but can start a business from home.
The polio vaccine was given to millions of kids within a couple years of it being developed. Phase I testing of current vaccines started over a year ago. In your "expert" opinion, how long does it take, exactly, to deem a vaccine safe? And, actually, the covid mortality rate is about 1%, while the polio paralysis rate is about 0.5%, and the polio mortality rate is about 0.05%. Plus, the polio vaccine is also multiple shots, not just one, and they do keep track of whether your due for a new dose.
There are absolutely tons of rules for the road, as well as licensing, safety standards, and insurance requirements, while the automobile accident mortality rate is only 0.25%. Not being allowed to just hop in an uninsured, unsafetied, vehicle, without a license, and go drinking and driving, without a seatbelt, driving at any speed you want, and ignoring whatever lights or signs you want, is so authoritarian, when the mortality rate is so low, am I right?
The military are required to get vaccines, and take shots for this, or that, when traveling abroad. All kinds of businesses require you to wear protective gear, for your job and a bunch are mandated by OSHA (no, they didn't pull out, they're awaiting a court decision and, no, a common stay doesn't mean anything has been decided about constitutionality). Seriously, there are a crap ton of rules and laws, in society. The vast majority are no big deal, but have to be followed daily.
Also, if you're eating hot dogs, eating fast food (any restaurant food, for that matter, where you're just trusting what's being handed to you), drinking pop or even tap water, taking whatever drugs your doctor prescribes, etc., etc., but then make a big fuss about not knowing exactly what's in a vaccine (that has an ingredients list) that has passed safety standards across the world, then I think you're just a big baby, and babies can't make decisions for themselves, or the community. Only some extreme health nut, who watches everything that goes into their body, and knows what every little thing is, has some unhypocritical grounds for wanting to know exactly what's in a vaccine, that has passed global safety standards. Grow the f*ck up, already. Over 700k unnecessary deaths, over 140k orphans, and you're crying about nonsense.
Again, Republicans just voted against a national $15. They, and conservative Dems, just negotiated a public option out of the BBB. Keep dreaming.
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@jeffvonbergen291 Yeah, I do. I spelled it out. Do you have severe reading comprehension problems? The other dimwit was making out like Republicans and corporate Dems are samesies. They aren't. Corporate Dems suck, but they aren't samesies.
How does sitting in an irrelevant third party do anything about Manchin? Even if you magically got enough people on board so that all the progressive caucus seats were actually some perfectly perfect puritan progressive third party, the PPPP party, here's what you'd have ... Trump as president, due to vote splitting in the general, between Bernie and Biden. One seat in the senate, and Pence as the tie breaking vote. In the house, you'd have a Republican plurality, which would only have to work with a handful of corporate Dems, to pass whatever they want. The PPPP would be completely irrelevant. They'd need to become the majority of the house and senate, to be able to pass anything. So far, the most popular third party hasn't won even a single seat in congress in its near 50 year existence.
Within the party, the progressive caucus is about 15 seats away from becoming the majority of house Dems. They could then pick the party speaker candidate, and set the party agenda for the house. If Dems are the majority of the house, that also means that speaker can assign committee seats, introduce whatever bills they want, and sideline whatever bills they want. There's more power in 15 more seats, within the party, than 100 seats outside the party.
Whatever you think of current progressives, running as a Dem is very clearly the more effective way to win a seat in congress, and taking over the party is the shorter path to getting any power.
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@Nanofuture87 Yes, it does mean that some people had zero rights in the societies that didn't recognize them as having rights. That's exactly why they had to fight to get rights. They did not come naturally, and society did not act as if they believed in some centuries old philosophy that those people had natural rights. You were originally talking about societies based on centuries of believing in such a philosophy, and now you're denying societies can have philosophies.
Again, without a society deciding what is a right, and what isn't, all you have is a bunch of individuals with freedoms. Claiming land, which Libertarians believe in, violates other people's ability to freely access said land. Claiming resources, which Libertarians believe in, violates other people's ability to freely access said resources. Even Libertarians don't believe that freedoms equate to rights, cherypick which freedoms they think is a right, which they don't, and who is deserving of them.
Societies have done Libertarianism, and it sucked. Only kids with money were educated. Only poor people who could find a rich sponsor could get healthcare. Landlords could charge whatever the hell they wanted. Employers could pay whatever the hell they wanted. People could claim lands that natives used to freely travel and live upon. Businesses were free to discriminate, pollute, destroy the environment, smash unions. Etc. Etc. Etc. And, no, the market didn't self police itself. There was zero indication of any widespread belief in natural rights, unless greed, making money, and shitting on the poor, is some keystone to natural rights.
In an environment where property is privately owned, and almost all property is already claimed, how is being forced to abide by the rules of all the property owners, and business owners, to make a living to survive, complete ownership over yourself? Sure, you have the "right" to not deal with them, and go off and die somewhere. Big woop.
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@Nanofuture87 I am distinguishing. That there are no rights without the recognition of rights, is evidenced by thousands of years of history. You could blather all day long about about slavery violating your rights, as you toiled in the cotton fields, but you clearly wouldn't have any rights, until they were recognized by society. Even you are requiring a group of like minded people to recognize "natural rights", to have a society based on them.
Sucked, according to the natives. Sucked, according to the poor and uneducated. Sucked, according to the poor and unhealthy. Sucked, according to massive labor movements and rioting. Sucked, according to massive protests by minorities and women against discrimination. I did not mention simply that it sucked, but that there was no indication of a belief in natural rights, other than the "right" to screw people over. Are you arguing for anarcho-capitalism, or Libertarianism? The later could still have a government that sides with business owners, land owners, corporations, etc. Still have a justice system that sides with their "right" to bust unions, sides with their "right" to use children as labor, sides with their property "rights", etc.
Yes, Libertarians do pick and choose which freedoms they consider rights, and which they don't. Can't you claim the property the entire apple tree is on, and deny everyone else an apple, not just your singular apple, and force them to pay for an apple if they want it? Can't you claim a water source, and force everyone else in the area to pay for water?
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