Youtube comments of Len (@Len-jk4zi).
-
67
-
26
-
20
-
19
-
18
-
18
-
16
-
15
-
14
-
14
-
12
-
12
-
11
-
11
-
11
-
10
-
10
-
10
-
10
-
9
-
9
-
9
-
9
-
9
-
9
-
9
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
8
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
7
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
6
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
5
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
Why exactly are you calling me an idiot, Hauso?
Have you never heard the term "innocent until proven guilty"?
If I were to accuse you of rape right here, right now, should everyone be expected to believe me and witch hunt you?
#MeToo is a hashtag dedicated to women making false sexual harassment claims, not rape.
But let's set that side for a moment.
Let's say you really do know one woman who CLAIMS she was violently raped.
Do you have the police report with DNA evidence, witness testimonials, pictures or video?
If not, we have to assume it didn't happen, as we cannot make a conviction we cannot prove.
I personally know two girls that casually claimed to have been violently raped for social gain.
One 14 year old girl that dated my autistic friend back in high school claimed to have been raped as an excuse for not being a virgin.
HE bought it, until she went back to the ex that "raped" her.
Another Belgian girl claimed that she was raped by her ex to gain sympathy as an attempt to get closer to me.
Yet again, guess who she went back to when I wasn't interested?
Rape happens, but false rape accusations happen even more, especially when you consider the culture where women hit up bars looking for guys to take home and regret it later.
Do you need any articles of convictions for these false rape accusations, or is hating men such a priority for you that you can't let anything get in the way?
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
@mbergamin16 "is not worth the ability to be alive itself"
Curious, why are you so obsessed with the concept of value?
Human beings are not things, we don't put a dollar value on a fetus and say "it's worth $50 so it has to suffer forever."
It just doesn't make sense to me, why treat is as an object with value like some slave when we could instead actually think about its' well-being and what will happen to it if it's born?
Children in africa are still starving and dying.
To animals, to disease, to starvation, to exposure,
They're coping in their poor circumstances, but they're still suffering, and they're still dying.
There are plenty of people that have "checked out" as you say, and those people were once babies.
There's many reasons why people that want to check out hesitate, but a very large number of them choose to check out anyway.
I would like to ask you not to talk about strength if you don't understand it.
Strength is limited, and it does run out.
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
The alternative is poverty, death and suffering spiraling out of control.
Women should not be forced to give birth against their will.
It's the first step in a spiral of resentment that gets passed down through generations, and creates crime.
You're a Christian, so you likely come from a wealthy family that isn't subjected to that cycle of resentment.
Not everybody can afford to live like you, and when somebody's life is bad enough they stop caring about the consequences of their actions.
When it comes down to it, would you rather women be responsible for obtaining their abortions of their own free will, or would you rather that you be responsible for infanticide, child abuse, poverty, and other plagues?
The poorest of people, that are living miserable lives and have nothing to lose are not going to be dissuaded from having sex.
It's the one thing they've got.
Why would they give it up?
To continue being miserable?
They've got nothing to look forward to, so they'd rather be irresponsible and have some fun while they're at it.
...or you could legalize abortion, and you get a better result for everyone.
It's very un-Christian to choose that level of suffering for generations people that you should not be responsible for.
There is no love in forcing someone to give birth.
Only trauma.
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
Hauso:
Again, you don't get to make that assumption.
"And claiming feminists hate men because they're called feminists is some galaxy brain shit."
"Feminist".
It's a term based on femininity, with "ist" tagged on the end.
The implication of the term is that a feminist is someone to whom only females matter.
"You're saying rape doesn't happen because it can't happen"
When did I ever say that?
I've noticed you false accusers can't stop lying, even in casual discussions.
I hope one day you get slammed with a false accusation so you know what it's like.
" citing no evidence and going against all studies on the subject."
You see, the funny thing is, I actually REQUIRE evidence before I'm willing to believe an accusation.
"Also ps, consent under duress is still rape "
Duress, of course, implying that you are being threatened.
If you decide to consent to your superior in the workplace to get ahead, that isn't duress.
" I don't hate men, I am one."
You're willing to both falsely accuse AND support false accusations against men.
"But you obviously don't like women."
Another false statement from the false accuser.
You're an evil being.
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
@pjelpers If it's not a crime, then why are we talking about it?
People have a right to privacy, and nothing is more private than sex.
People are not choosing to make any such sacrifices you say they are, that's why birth control exists, and abortion for when that fails.
Consent isn't valid unless it comes from the woman, Patrick.
The question of consent is hers to answer, not yours.
You're free to use your penis for whatever you want, you do decide what its' purpose is.
You're free to hold yourself to a higher standard and only use it if you're willing to have children, but others are under no such obligation.
If you want to put your penis inside of somebody else, that becomes a question of their bodily autonomy, and it is their question to answer.
If their answer is "No, you may not be inside of me", then entering or remaining inside of their body is an injustice to them, and may result in your immediate and justified death.
This is why abortion is a human right.
2
-
2
-
2
-
@pjelpers Infanticide is an entirely different set of circumstances and does not meet the criteria for self-defense.
It does not protect your body or health.
Abortion does.
For this reason, I'm not going to discuss infanticide with you, as it is not relevant.
Development matters, as without development, personhood is impossible.
People's sex lives are private and are not to be considered, feel free to talk about things that are public, though.
Normal people don't obsess with sex like you do.
I hope you get help.
The greatest good is myself, and my right to bodily autonomy, as is yours.
Laws exist to protect bodily autonomy, and when the law errs, respect for those laws dwindle.
Sorry, dictator.
My medical record is not your business.
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
@TheDakotaFrazier In our society, you need money to eat and live, but a career is more than just money.
A healthy career is an aspiration, accomplishment and a mark of status in society.
Having a good career opens a great many doors in the world we live in, and not having one closes far more.
There are rich people filled with joy and poor people plagued by depression.
You can find a great many joyous rich people on YouTube itself, you can find them everywhere.
It's not the money that makes them happy, although it definitely helps.
It's the community that their careers has ushered them into that does.
"Or you can prove this by simply saying, if it was true, then happiness should correlate with how much people like their jobs."
That's the perspective I had when I was a young teenager, but that's simply not a good way to look at it.
We no longer live in a world where the average person can have a healthy social life that is fully separated from their work life; the cost of living everywhere is too high for that.
If your career doesn't give you fulfillment, you're probably too tired to find fulfillment elsewhere.
"But then what about the people who don't work that are very happy."
I would love to see how those people are living.
If we're talking about modern society, that can't be good.
"You can be empty inside but a hobby can be a momentary escape or distraction"
I suppose I shouldn't even have used the term "hobby".
My only hope for a career path is currently my hobby, and if I don't turn it into a career, I will die and have lived a life that is more negative than happy.
I know there are people that are worse off than me and have suffered much worse, but I would never wish that on my child.
I would rather abort if I know that my child will be in the same hopeless situation that I am in.
Yes, there are starving African children that grew up and made something of their lives.
There are also those that didn't make it that far.
Whilst life is a series of ups and downs, the circumstances we bring children into DO matter.
I truly believe that in better circumstances, if my parents were more educated, I might be living a happy life right now.
But no, instead I'm living paycheck to paycheck and the assets I need to even BEGIN putting the work in to make a positive change (despite the incredibly low likelihood that I will succeed, given my condition) will take me upwards of five years to save for.
I'm sure you can imagine that five years of saving up for something that you probably won't even manage to pull off would put a bit of a burden on your happiness.
If you don't think so, then I'd like you to change your perspective; perhaps you're lucky enough to have the strength to persevere.
There is a point where if you're asking people to suffer so they can live up to your ideals, they're simply not going to have it.
If you want people to have children when they think the world is not a good place for children anymore...well, let's say you succeed.
Then suddenly these people have children, and they think that you are responsible for everything bad that has happened to them.
It's an awful outcome all around.
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@PaxMundi118 "I believe that there are objective moral laws"
This has never been the case throughout history.
The world has always had differing views on morality, and depending on where you go and what circumstances you are in, morality changes.
Murder for example is something that can sometimes be "right" to the vast majority of people, as with theft.
"You contend that if one suffers significantly or has the potential to suffer significantly then it is justified to kill them. "
No, this is is not my position.
It is justified to kill those that wish to be killed because they are suffering, or to kill those that are inside of your body without your consent, or to choose not to give birth to a human being in the first place to prevent suffering.
"The best way to approach all of this confusion is the practical one: education, prevention, supporting existing systems, reforming those that are failing, etc"
This doesn't actually work, because your "objective moral laws" aren't objective, so people will never follow them.
People like me will always exist, we are a type of animal and we do not have laws beyond those of nature by default.
"Laws" are a contrivance.
If you lost your ability to speak English, you'd find yourself a lot less confident in those "objective moral laws", because you will have no way to preach them, and will be powerless in the face of those that don't agree or care.
"Do you think he should be pro-abortion?"
I haven't met anyone that is pro-abortion, just pro-choice.
I also haven't met anyone that is pro-life, just pro-overpopulation.
That said, I don't have any of those things, so your anecdote does not affect me.
I will have to make my predictions based on what I have, and based on my circumstances.
Miracles are statistically rare and I don't gamble with human lives.
"To say which life gets a chance and which life can be destroyed is playing God. It is assuming a moral responsibility no one rightfully possesses."
This is simply not true, there is no such thing as playing God; only being human.
Making decisions regarding life and death is something we all have to do, the modern world makes it less often that we have to make such literal decisions.
But throughout the course of our species, that responsibility has fallen on our shoulders time and time again.
You need to grow up a little if you view it as "playing god".
We have bigger issues to worry about, and judging people for being human does not help.
"Abortion, by its definition, involves another body, a body that is at risk of being eradicated."
That's where "my body, my choice" comes from.
You don't need to make that choice if another body isn't violating yours in the first place.
"But if you're honest you realize: you support killing. At least be honest."
I do not consider fetuses to be alive prior to birth, counting your chickens before they hatch is stupid.
Sentience is a crucial part of being a human being, and self awareness is vital to personhood.
We kill beings with greater sentience than a fetus by the thousand on a daily basis.
"I also believe life has intrinsic meaning and purpose (to love and be loved)."
I do not believe this.
Love is simply a method of making life more bearable, when we die it is over.
"A generation of beautiful black leaders, artists, engineers, inventors and doctors will never be."
The vast majority of people that don't exist would not have been so useful.
We can spend forever crying about what will "never be", but we have people that are already alive and are not adequately provided for.
The abortion rate is high, but you don't seem to care why.
Why not focus on making the world a better place so people willingly start to have children again?
"This is the opposite of justice."
You're right, it's childishness.
Instead of crying over spilled milk, you're crying into the fridge over milk you haven't poured.
People that exist are suffering FAR MORE than people that don't.
There is an infinite number of people that don't exist, and we cannot afford to increase our population by an infinite amount.
Resources are limited and we can only sustain our current population at what it is because of globalism, the Russia-Ukraine war has caused people to die of starvation.
Abortion is slowing the progression of this problem.
Do you have any other answers?
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@PaxMundi118 So why are those minority groups choosing abortion?
It's not abortion depopulating them, it's their choices depopulating them.
Much like any non-minority group, if given enough resources, they will willingly choose to have children.
How crappy of that specific white woman aborting purely for racial reasons.
It is absurd to claim this her racial motivations have anything to do with other people's medical decisions, though.
Blame the person, not the gun.
If you want to blame the gun, you'll have to consider ALL police racist as some of them do in fact perpetrate violence against specific racial demographics for racist reasons.
The founder of Planned Parenthood is dead.
Planned Parenthood isn't the only place women go to obtain abortions, and they're definitely not considering the agenda of a dead woman when making their own medical decisions.
A certain evil man with a narrow mustache drank water, must I swear off water too because water is anti-Semitic?
I'm not going to swear off laser eye surgery that could cure my blindness simply because it was tested on prisoners in Germany.
In a similar light, people are continuing to play Hogwarts' Legacy despite Rowling's opinions against trans people no matter their political alignment, because their intent to enjoy the game is not relevant to her political opinion.
Minorities are not suffering from abortion, they're suffering from the same thing everyone else in their financial situation is suffering from.
Poverty.
As poverty is, removing abortion as a decision for those minorities would only make their situation even worse.
It will increase discrimination against them as they are forced to populate beyond their means and resort to crime.
So here's a question for you:
Do you think abortion should only be illegal for minority groups, or is race not an issue to you?
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@patriothistory You were always going to respond to me, that was predetermined before we met.
Maybe you won't respond to another in the future having had this experience, but that's not actually under your control.
That future is already pre-determined, and unless you yourself know what the future is, you cannot change it.
God knew that Adam and Eve would eat fruit of knowledge of "good and evil", and he knew this conversation was going to happen even then.
This is god's plan, or god has no plan.
God doesn't give us a choice, our choices are not ours to make according to your religion.
He won't interfere because he planned it.
He will not give you the power to decide differently from his plan, and by his inaction, he creates that future for you.
If you'd been researching and dissecting the bible for years, you'd know it's a lie, and you would have debunked it for yourself by now.
Just because what I stand for isn't biblical, doesn't mean I can't debunk what you stand for, and hold you accountable for your inconsistencies.
Abortion is condoned in the bible, the term is "bitter water".
Then there's dashing kids against the rocks, so on and so forth.
Your religion has held back your mental development, and it is a damn shame.
My goal isn't to "persuade" you, it's to point out that not even your religion supports your position.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@Robin Ralson I got curious and disabled my extension to see what you were up to.
I might as well set you straight on what I believe in before I turn it back on and never hear from you again.
I'm male, and my sense of empathy is why I'm firmly pro-choice.
I do not believe that a fetus not being born is a negative thing, and I believe that the end of life is neither good nor bad.
This is because there are plenty of people out there that are suffering and choose to stop living because life is no longer a good thing for them.
I do not consider fetuses to be living prior to fetal viability as I base my definition on the scientific characteristics of life, and nothing else.
I reject the claim that fetuses are able to learn languages and recognize voices as they do not attain cognitive thought until long after birth.
I believe that children should grow up having plenty of prospects and every opportunity to succeed, and I recognize that not everybody will have that opportunity.
I believe that the number of children we have should be limited to the number of children we can provide for and have them prosper, instead of giving birth as frequently as possible and ruining life for everyone.
I view abortion as a morally righteous action, as it prevents the birth of a child that either has no prospects or a family that does not want them.
Cruelty can only happen to that which is alive.
Death is inevitable, but suffering can be prevented.
I will do what I can to prevent suffering when I see it, and create prosperity where it can happen.
And with that, I really don't have anything else to say to you.
If you don't agree with what I believe in, that's okay, we can agree to disagree.
If you want to fight against people that believe what I do, then we'll fight back and we'll wage some form of war over it.
There's middle ground, though.
You don't have to have an abortion if you don't want to, and the ones that do can abort privately and you don't have to know about it.
If you can't agree to that, then there will be no peace.
I won't change your views, and you won't change mine, so I'm just going to toggle that extension back on and I'll never see another comment from you again.
There's no need to harass someone that can't even see your comments, so I do hope you move on.
Feel free to engage the people that still wish to engage with you.
I'm no longer one of them.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@oscarbenigsen4538 Not everyone will be able to access your solution.
Humans are more complicated than you seem to understand, and not everyone is "tireless".
The best you've given is "this is how it would work in an ideal world", but we're not living in an ideal world, and we must make our decisions based upon reality.
I am frequently alone, frequently depressed, and there is no means to fix either.
"(please forgive. I am still growing)"
This much is evident.
What works for you doesn't work for me.
"No one but other gays would want to take in some gay guy and all the mental illnesses associated with him, along with his desire to groom children"
What the hell is wrong with you?
I might as well say that you touch children because you're a member of a church.
Any other example you used was fine, but that crosses the line.
"We really hate one another"
And you clearly have a part to play in that hatred.
"Abortion will never help these women. "
Abortion does help these women.
It enables them to remain in control of their body and decide whether or not having children is right for them.
"They need men who are willing to beat the hell out of men who get women pregnant and who will not care for them."
No.
If they don't want a pregnancy in the first place, violence will not make that pregnancy wanted, or any less expensive.
Not everybody has the great wealth that you do.
Get that through your head.
" They need extended families who would never permit their own to fall. They need The Church."
Will "The Church" provide for them if they enter as disrespectful atheists?
Your religion isn't for everyone, and unless you'd take people in that hate your guts and never expect them to change, they don't need the church.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
We cannot have exemplary role models if the cost of labor declines as the cost of living rises.
People that live close to or below the poverty line have the most "unrestrained sex" of any demographic, and parenthood is not anywhere near feasible for them to handle.
The triplets experiment has already proven that you cannot "raise" a human being to follow a specific path, it's in their blood before they're born.
People that have the potential to do well in life will often fail if they do not have the resources.
This does not mean that if everybody was fully provided for that everyone would function well in society, but there are plenty of "average" people that are physically and mentally capable of doing better than they are.
College isn't in everyone's future.
Not everyone is cut out for a high-paying job, but everybody is still alive.
Poor people still have the inclinations of human beings that aren't poor, they need intimate relationships to give their lives meaning, and intimate relationships means sex.
Those of us with less to live for than you will never live our lives up to your expectations.
Your expectations only work for the people with the means to meet them.
We are all animals, and we all want to enjoy our lives.
People that don't enjoy their lives tend to do bad things.
They tend to care less about human lives because their own life isn't valuable to them.
If I don't value my own life, why would I value yours?
Why would I value the life of a fetus that I don't even consider to be a person, especially if it's going to impoverish and potentially kill me?
Why would I endure the fear of a hospital visit for something I do not value?
Human misery is on the rise, and abortion is one of the things that is slowing its' progression.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@kata865 As soon as you've got a dog or cat that's a chess player, let me know.
The goal isn't to kill the fetus, simply to remove it.
If it dies as a side-effect, oh well.
It's the fetus' problem, not mine.
I think of other people more than I think about myself, that's why I'm pro-choice.
I wouldn't mind being aborted as a fetus, in fact, I'd literally be incapable of caring.
I would definitely mind being forced to give birth against my will though, so the choice is easy.
If you think so little of human beings that you'd force them to do that, I'm afraid you're not only stupid, but cruel.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@Tam-Ruh4856 It's the winning argument, as without 100% effective methods of protection, healthy, responsible individuals with healthy intimate relationships will sometimes become pregnant when they are unprepared to raise children.
That said, it is not a reasonable expectation that people should be prepared to raise children before they have sex, nor is it a reasonable expectation that they give birth should conception occur.
Abstinence is not an option for these people, they're in healthy intimate relationships and they must fulfill their partner's needs, or the relationship must end.
Telling people to end their relationships is an absurdity, and you know it.
Telling them to have less intimacy when they're already happy isn't going to win you any favor, either.
If the cost of something is too high, people turn to piracy and other methods of circumventing the price.
They'd rather take gambles to get what they want or need and worry about the consequences later, and large enough numbers of people avoiding consequences becomes a societal problem that you WILL have to deal with.
Look at countries like India, where everything everywhere smells like human waste.
If that's what you want, keep going the way you're going.
If not, grow up and start advocating for adults to make the decisions they need to make without harassment from the law.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@John-ls4xh Superb triple negative.
You have zero credibility and your anecdotes cannot be proven, and it is counterproductive to your argument if they are.
Abortion typically is not a mistake, as in 95% of cases, it is the right decision for all involved.
That said, you were free to do what you think was a mistake, others should not be denied the very same freedom that you have already enjoyed.
Women are free to decide what they do or don't regret, you can find plenty of stories of women that regret giving birth, and they are FAR more horrifying in comparison.
Abortion causes less bleeding than childbirth, with childbirth having over twice as many casualties.
Deadly force is deadly force.
No, it is not an "equivalence" to murder, it's just deadly force.
This is pointless to argue, I listen to far too many court cases for this "talking point" to be worthwhile.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
What a manipulative abuser you are.
"According to PP’s most recent annual report (2020-2021), they provided 383,460 abortion procedures and only 1,940 adoption referrals"
This sounds about right, because the vast majority of women view adoption as abandonment and cannot stomach doing that to their child.
It is emotionally easier for them to abort, and they view it as morally right.
"Wouldn’t you call that biased advice? "
Absolutely not.
It's just an indicator of what women are choosing.
"PP also received over $633,400,000 in funding from the government."
Which government, and since when, and when did it stop?
Have you not heard of the hyde amendment?
"as they seem to provide only one choice to their mothers. "
Planned Parenthood is not an adoption (abandonment) agency.
They don't have to offer adoption referrals, yet they still do when women decide that's what they want.
When women want to put their children up for adoption, they go to adoption agencies.
Shame on you.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@MidwestAdventure2024 A lot of "pro-lifers" are totally fine with children growing up locked in closets with no hope of succeeding in life.
They seem to forget there's a class of people that's forever locked to minimum wage, and minimum wage provides survival for one person, but not a livelihood.
I grew up with very little, and one memory I will never forget is crying in a store before Halloween because my father told me that we couldn't afford a $4 toy.
The realization that we were so poor was too much for a 7 year old to bear.
My faith in my parents was shaken, because I didn't know why they would let us be so desolate, but I eventually realized that they had no choice.
As I got older, I started missing out on experiences with other children because we couldn't afford any of the things they were interested in.
Eventually, things got a little bit better, but by then the damage had already been done.
I was afraid of anything that costed money to do, I was terrified of my possessions breaking down or getting damaged.
I had no way of knowing when I'd be able to replace any of these things, and my stress levels are starting to cause me health problems.
I had a natural talent for music, but we didn't have the money to invest in getting me any instruments, or any lessons.
Now as an adult, I'm too damaged to do anything with my life.
I hate it here.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@andersbeth6786 Says our entire species.
Outlaw it, and they'll just abort illegally.
If when you outlaw something, it doesn't at all reduce the rate at which it occurs, it's probably because you've outlawed something you shouldn't have.
6 weeks is NOT enough time to figure out you are pregnant and undergo an abortion.
On average, most women won't find out they're pregnant until 8 weeks.
If abortion is murder, then I guess we're all murderers, then.
We still have to do it, and it's more important for us as individuals AND as a species than your moral outrage.
" By the way thanks for admitting you're perfectly ok executing a 7 months old fetus."
Under the awful circumstances that would require me to execute a 7 month old fetus, I absolutely would be.
Again, if I have no choice, you can be as outraged as you like.
I will always do what I believe is the right thing to do.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@pjelpers Yes.
!00% of abortion cases amount to self-defense.
"For the same reasons someone kills an infant"
Is an infant inside of your body, threatening to do great harm should you fail to remove it in time?
No.
I'm shutting down that argument, as I told you I would before.
"And we try to judge intent of self-defense vs unjust killing on all other types of killings"
This is correct.
What we do not expect is for people that defend themselves to judge the intent of those they must defend themselves from.
Your average citizen is not law enforcement, and they are not required to prove intent in order to use deadly means to prevent harm from being caused to their body.
"Again, when just simply pointing out the common sense reality that children come from sex"
No healthy person looks at children and thinks about sex, Patrick.
I agree with your statements about Pride Month and I give those I see that support it some rather firm negative reinforcement.
You are in no place to judge them, though.
For the last time, I will not discuss sex with you.
I find your obsession with it to be disturbing, and it goes against common decency.
The vast majority of people in the developed world are content to view the decision to have children as something entirely separated from one's sex lives, and I will hold you to that very same standard.
But more importantly than that, I will not discuss things that the 14th amendment prevents you from considering in the courtroom.
If we're to be making hypothetical laws, we're to conduct ourselves like hypothetical lawyers.
Women do not end the bodily autonomy of anyone when they abort; fetuses are not autonomous.
If the law wants to intervene, respect for the law will drop and violence will occur.
"This is law enforcing on you that there's something greater FOR YOU than your own personal bodily autonomy."
This is unconstitutional, and very Chinese.
People are free to choose what's the most important for them.
If you think otherwise, we've got guns for that.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@star_strafe3951 If people consent to bad things happening to them just by innocently living their lives, why do we have hospitals?
People consent automatically to their deaths by getting in a vehicle, sitting outside in the sun, or even getting out of bed.
"Abortion" is our insurance for pregnancy.
"Which is completely normal and not harmful"
This is a blatant lie, as far more women suffer a decline in health or complications after childbirth as compared to women that abort.
On top of that, the vast majority of women that abort believe they did the right thing.
I've got studies to back that up, but I'll withhold them from this comment so as not to get filtered.
Malaria is natural.
Eclampsia is natural.
Bears are natural.
Nature is dangerous, and not always healthy.
Hospitals exist so that we can resist nature when it becomes harmful to us.
" If you dont want a baby dont have sex simple"
This costs far too much, so I refuse.
I am not willing to go the rest of my life without committed relationships, as I know they're healthy and an important part of who I am.
If I were to accept your proposal, I would likely fall into depression and become one of the many people that decide to "check out" on a yearly basis.
It is wrong of you to assume that I would be careless, and it is wrong of you to assume that I would have a high libido.
Intimacy is necessary for human beings to be healthy.
If I'm depressed because I have to spend my entire fertility as something seen as less than human, I'm definitely not going to see a baby's life as being valuable and I'll simply keep doing as I do and abort anyway.
Why "tf" wouldn't I be willing to kill a baby if my life is being wasted and I no longer want to live?
1
-
@star_strafe3951 I've heard that term so much, "playing God".
I'm not playing god, I'm being human.
"And no its no epidemic"
Do some googling.
I almost called you a liar, but I've realized you just aren't familiar enough with the subject matter to know.
It is an epidemic and therapy is not always the answer.
Therapy can help, but some people have crippling mental health issues that are caused by real-world conditions.
These are typically the people that "check out".
"Each individual is different"
You're right.
I know what circumstances I would be willing to allow a child to be born into and what circumstances I could never live with.
I am not willing to have my child "be sorry and die" (what the heck is wrong with you?) and have it be my responsibility.
If I give birth knowing it will likely suffer due to the condition of the world we live in and my own circumstances, then I will be responsible for its' suffering.
I'm not able to disassociate from my decisions like you are.
Love and care might be free, but living is not.
I need real-world assets in order to provide for the people I love and care for, and I may not even have enough to cope with for long enough.
The vast majority of women choose abortion over adoption because they can't stomach the thought of abandoning their child.
Adoption causes far more harm than I can live with, so I decline.
"Imagine your own mother snatching away your chance at life because she deemed you unworthy of handling life"
Okay, I'm going to have to ask for your help on that.
The way I'm imagining it right now is like I never existed to be sad about it.
It'd be a lot better than the way my life is right now.
It'd be like nothing ever happened, and I'm okay with that.
1
-
@star_strafe3951 Do you think saying "life is risky" is suddenly going to make me accept risks that I'm not willing to take?
Hospitals are one of our methods of resisting nature.
"They havent perfected it so there are side effects which arent natural."
Uh, what?
Natural does not mean good.
I'm just going to stand my ground, hospitals are not natural, medication is not natural, and any attempt to prevent us from dying from things that would kill us if they were left to run their course is not natural.
Moving on.
"Pregnancy has been happening since the beggining of our species."
And?
"If it was really such a bad thing and injurious to health im pretty sure we would evolve out of it"
We have.
That's why we developed abortion.
If you still want to claim hospitals assist in natural recovery, then abortion is natural as well.
"or there would be more women born so as to makeup for those dying in childbirth."
This isn't how biology works.
There are more men born because natural male behavior is even more dangerous than childbirth.
Everything you're talking about right now is an appeal to nature fallacy; it depends first on the naive believe that nature is inherently good.
I haven't met ANYBODY in my lifetime that's dumb enough to think that nature is their friend.
"Obviously there will be a decline in health after childbirth but it would be like recovering after you get sick."
This is false, as they do not recover.
Please stop spreading misinformation about things you don't understand.
"Abortions are completely different than pregnancy so you cant compare them and their results."
Actually, you can.
This is because a pregnancy can end in either childbirth or an abortion, and your health and odds of survival will be better if you go with the abortion.
"In one you just get a period on steroids and the other is sustaining and then giving life to a child in the course of 280 days. Its apples and oranges."
This is one of the most naive things I've ever read.
It's both factually incorrect and serves no purpose to this discussion, so moving on.
"And if you care so much about relationships and mental health maybe its not that okay you sit fine with the fact that you would rather kill a life than giveup sex is astounding."
It isn't sex that I'd be giving up, but my entire life and livelihood.
I would have to sacrifice intimacy, friendships and my mental health and wellbeing, and I strongly believe it would lead to the conclusion of my life.
I don't have a high libido, but I can enjoy intimacy with my partner enough to maintain a relationship, I am not willing to sacrifice this thing that I need.
Life is not worth living if I have to live it alone, so I would absolutely prefer to kill a life than suffer for the rest of mine just to die.
"Its biologically engraved in us to love children and babies"
Only in some people, I'm not one of those people.
I've known people that are, and people that aren't.
"dont let words and stupid narratives dispell that."
You play too many videogames.
One thing I will advocate for is choosing not to have children when they will become homeless, not being born is a lot like...not being born.
You never wake up, you never have anything to lose.
It's the same as when you go to sleep at night and don't remember your dreams.
"a world of child labour and starvation."
You're totally fine with perpetuating child labour and starvation?
I'm not.
If I had the means to stop it, I would.
If I were going to bring a child into that situation and I didn't have the means to end child labour and starvation, I would choose my solution; no more children.
"So why doesnt the exact same apply to a fetus with the potential of living a good life as with good guidance anyone can lead a good life"
First off, not everyone can lead a good life with good guidance.
Some people don't have the assets they need to live, some people have physical and mental health conditions that will torture them forever.
My life isn't very good, so my children's lives will be even worse off than I am.
I have found the solution, and the solution is aborting when I am not prepared to care for a child.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@egobrain6826 Nope, she can withdraw consent at any point she pleases, and if she never consents to pregnancy in the first place, I am not going to take anyone else's word but hers.
Unless she signs a document in advance for the medical decision that is giving birth, consent cannot be assumed, let alone full consent.
Her autonomy includes all of her medical decisions, and her decision to have sex (not a medical decision) cannot be interpreted as consent to anything that is a medical decision.
I'm sorry, I hard disagree.
It is right to end another person when they are violating your right to bodily autonomy.
Luckily, fetuses are not people.
You're the one saying she consented, not her.
I'll need a written statement from her, because you cannot consent in place of another human being.
I will assist her in aborting, regardless of law.
This is because law does not equal right.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@carsonsmusic You mean the fetus?
Fetuses do not have sentient minds and are not people.
I'm not particularly concerned with bills that ensure women remain the primary patient in abortion care, it's better for their health.
"because only half (51%) of people who had abortions used any form of birth control"
This is false information, as this data cannot be accurately gathered due to people having the right of privacy.
That said, the supposed half that DID use birth control and had it fail should not be punished for those that opted not to use birth control.
Sometimes, birth control may not be taken due to unexpected circumstances.
This is not a valid reason to punish women by stripping them of their right to bodily autonomy, either.
Abortion as a primary form of birth control is a myth.
It isn't healthy, it is expensive, and there are incentives to use proper birth control.
Increase the quality of sex education and stop preaching abstinence and the rates of unprotected sex will decrease.
Unfortunately for you, abortion remains a vital part of a healthy society.
Vilifying sex accomplishes one thing; creating resentment and ignorance.
When a tyrannical state government outlaws abortion, people perceive that as an anti-sex stance as it greatly increases the risk with no good reason.
This causes individuals to stop listening to anti-sex rhetoric and reduces birth control awareness by making sex a taboo topic.
This doesn't make members of our species any less sexual in nature and without a significant increase in asexuality, greatly raises the number of accidental and teenage pregnancies.
Of course, the impact of this is greater and significantly more concerning on individuals that come from less fortunate families.
As is regularly observed, the first world has a lower birth rate than developing countries, and there are several factors to point to as the cause.
For one, poorer people tend to have access to lower quality education, and tend to "misbehave" more due to the hardship that comes with their circumstances.
This misbehavior can often overwhelm the education systems that are in place, leading disadvantaged individuals to receive an even lower quality education and have no prospects.
People with no prospects in the first world cannot simply "work harder" to increase their output, first world societies must first have a place for them to work.
Typically, disadvantaged individuals are not able to secure significant enough pay to make savings AND cover medical bills for the numerous health issues that often crop up in these troubled families, so they remain have-nots.
Have-nots, as the name implies, have nothing to lose, and tend not to have any hopes for the future.
People without hope for the future are reckless, and preaching abstinence to them is not going to work.
They have sex to cope with their circumstances and aren't even likely to listen to a lecture on birth control.
At this point, little can be done for them but improving their circumstances so their offspring will be more receptive to education, but these disadvantaged families STILL exist, and they STILL are going to do what they need to do to cope with existing under such unfortunate circumstances.
I am conscious of this cycle of suffering, and recognize that improving peoples circumstances, education and increasing access to abortion services are the only ways to put an end to the cycle.
If you wish to blame those that are victims to the cycle, would you blame a tiger for killing and eating someone?
No, it's a wild, predatory animal.
It does what tigers do, and humans are going to do what humans do when they're born into poor circumstances.
If you know the next generation will follow the same path as the first and choose not to help improve their circumstances, you are stepping into the tiger enclosure.
You know what's going to happen, and it is your fault, not theirs.
Some would use this analogy to support anti-sex rhetoric, but pregnancy is actually an uncommon occurrence should one do their due diligence.
"Uncommon" still means "nearly guaranteed to happen at least once in your lifetime", but one or two abortions a lifetime is not excessive.
Should someone maintain a safe distance from the enclosure when visiting the zoo, and the tiger somehow escapes its' enclosure, one should not have to lay down and accept death when they took every necessary precaution.
Pregnancy is no different.
The cautious are already going through enough anxiety as it is, don't punish them when they're already doing their part.
1
-
@carsonsmusic Why would you want to kill people that are sleeping or in a coma?
The fetus' right to bodily autonomy is respected when it is removed from the woman's body using whatever necessary means.
Why is that?
Because its' right to bodily autonomy does not grant it a claim to *her body*.
"I believe that people should know the bare minimum about sex and that it should come from a purely biological viewpoint."
The bare minimum is not enough.
"People getting abortions know about birth control."
If you don't want to teach them about birth control, you don't have that as an excuse to hide behind.
"Whenever you push meaningless sex as empowerment, people will live on the streets"
No, people will live on the streets when their circumstances are poor enough.
Nobody is pushing sex as empowerment, it's a natural part of being human and measures should be taken to ensure people can have sex safely and responsibly.
Teaching abstinence does not work, as you cannot teach humans to stop being human.
"There will be a dramatic increase in sex. Peoples' minds will become dull and diluted."
An increase in sex isn't a bad thing, so long as it is an increase in responsible sex.
Irresponsible sex happens the most in disadvantaged communities, or communities where birth control and abortion are not readily available.
"What does telling people that you can have pleasure-based sex with people accomplish?"
They don't need to be told, they figure that out on their own.
"Babies should not be killed."
Babies are not being killed, and women can abort with impunity.
"You know that the abortion procedure and that abortion are indefensible"
Nope, that's a Carson problem, not a Len problem.
I have no issue with abortion and view it for the positive effects it has on individuals and society as a whole.
I recognize poverty as the main driving factor in rising crime rates and recognize it as the cycle it is, but you seem to have very little to say about poverty!
But hey, if you really think you can choose not to improve the quality of sex education and keep it at the "bare minimum" without people figuring it out on their own in unsafe ways, why don't you use your godlike powers to change reality to fit your narrow perspective to touch up your nothing-burger of a comment a little bit?
Your beliefs cause an increase in unsafe sex and poverty, mine shrink both and fix problems.
You create what you hate.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@Robin Ralson
"You're right, I did spell that word incorrectly because I used the word suggestions in the suggestion bar on my keyboard, which sometimes tends to show false spellings"
Now you've changed your story, and your credibility is gone.
First it was a typo, now you've blamed it on a suggestion bar.
I can tell you that when I see incorrect spelling on a suggestion bar, I think "Gee, I must have mistyped something for it to have learned that. I'll just spell it correctly this time by hand."
Anyone else that cares about how they present themselves will think something similar, some might even go so far as to remove it from the dictionary, although I definitely wouldn't.
I didn't have to say very much to get you to slip up; you're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
But because of the way you've behaved here, it is far more likely for people to see you as deceitful than someone that made an innocent mistake.
You really should have stuck with the typo story.
"I knew what the spelling was and changed it in ALL the comments to you in which I have mentioned it. "
I suppose you're too lazy to even do that.
At the time that I'm typing this comment, I went back and grabbed a screenshot of your mistake from the thread where I first called you out for it, as well as both of your explanations for it.
It also helps that you used "lisence" (sic) in the wrong context, nevermind the spelling.
Anyone else would have said "reason" or "grounds", but for some reason you had to be weird about it.
I hope you get the help you need sometime soon, man.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@kata865 The killing of an innocent person has nothing to do with my sex life, so I don't know why we're having this discussion.
I'm not willing to carry a child or give birth, so I'm simply going to abort if it comes down to it.
Whom I have sex with is my business, and odds are my partner is going to be just as unwilling to have children as I am, let alone abandoning children.
People in long-term relationships aren't always ready to have children at any given moment, and a great many people cannot morally reconcile with *abandonment*, which means adoption isn't an option either.
Abortion will always be necessary, and always be a topic, because there is no way to ensure that 100% of people will be willing to have children 100% of the time.
Marriage is also becoming increasingly unpopular due to the expense of divorce, not every couple is meant to remain together forever.
It's 2022, virginity is cheap and there's no reason to "preserve" it when you're far more valuable of a partner with a healthy amount of experience and knowledge about relationships.
If this is really how you view relationships, you don't have enough experience to be telling others what to do.
Abortion is not killing an innocent life, and only a small minority of extremists think that.
Abortion is not convenient, and vulnerability is a valid reason to abort.
That last thing you said does not look good on you.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
Rawlings:
Actually, they've proven a fetus DOESN'T feel pain, for it is incapable of having experiences.
Yes, a fetus will writhe like a headless eel on a grill, but that headless eel, we know is also incapable of having experiences.
"Some thing it's not a baby until it comes out of the womb? So a baby is
born today and can be considered fully human, but 24 hours prior, it's
not? It's only a fetus? "
It being human and being a fetus are two different things.
A fetus is not a baby unless it is born, but that has no bearing on its' humanity.
"So no one HAS to go to hell"
No one does to begin with, your god just likes to torture people.
"God doesn't want anyone to go to hell - he gave a way out."
God wants people to go to hell because he likes to torture people he doesn't like.
"God says thou shall not murder - taking the life of an innocent child, is murder."
Murder is strictly and without exception, the unlawful killing of one human being by another with intent.
Abortion is both lawful and a human right, thus abortion is not murder.
Let's not forget all those verses where God commands that we kill others, as well.
"Babies in the womb do feel pain - it's a fact, look it up."
Fetuses in the womb do not feel pain for they are not sentient.
it's a fact, do some research.
"God's word says he knits every child together in their mother's womb, and even before they were born, he knew them. "
God's taking credit for the actions of humans.
" Women are told it's a fetus, not a living breathing child. Lie. "
Actually they're told the truth, it is a fetus.
It isn't a child, it's a fetus of the genus homo sapiens.
"They use abortion for birth control, what a sad state. "
Well, there's a lie you've just told me.
The side effects of the abortion pill are an effective deterrent.
I'm sure some women try, but all give up.
"No woman whose had an abortion is ever free from the thought of what could have been had she not taken the life of the child."
Except most are.
Every woman that is left unbullied moves on to live a healthy life, and they don't second guess themselves because they know they can just reproduce in the future, when they are willing.
I don't trust your experiences as you are a liar.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
Majed:
My point stands.
"If abortion isn't wrong, then what is it? "
Right, for many, amny people.
" because that would be equivalent to saying there's no problem with
women continuously getting pregnant and having abortions, back to back."
So why can't that be right?
Women have the RIGHT to do whatever they please, and continuously getting pregnant and getting abortions back-to-back is detrimental to her health, but hse has the right to do that.
"You strike me as someone who has never read any of the arguments against abortion"
I wouldn't be making those judgments from this point on when you meet others, as you don't seem to have the deductive skills necessary to make accurate judgments.
I've been participating in this debate for years.
I've seen every argument from both sides, and dismantled a great many from both sides.
"For any point you pick, those opposing abortion can easily come up with a
counterargument, showing why the point you picked is too late for an
abortion that is morally sound."
Except those "counterarguments" don't really touch on morality.
It's never too late to abort, as a woman's rights and wellbeing are always on the line.
"Finally, people against abortions don't hate women."
Your actions state otherwise.
" It's just that some of us are equally concerned about the protection of the baby's life too."
So to protect the fetus, you're going to intentionally harm the woman?
No, lad.
Your hands are tied so long as you care "equally".
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@thomassvoboda4747 I guess your first step to arguing that is proving that I said all children born that might have been aborted otherwise will have a poor life!
But you're not going to do that, because you can't.
This argument had barely started and you already backed yourself into a corner.
"While both are terrible crimes, murder is by far worse."
Death is not inherently good or bad.
For murder to be worse than torture, death would have to be inherently bad.
But it isn't.
Death can be swift and painless, whereas torture creates human suffering.
The fact that your anecdote lists warriors and not innocent people that don't have that strength speaks volumes.
The vast majority of people that are burning to death look forward to dying.
Dying is the best part of burning to death, and burn victims very frequently fight legal battles to be allowed to die.
"all of the children aborted would have had to been tortured, had they been born."
No.
Only the ones that I am personally responsible for, and I am the only one fit to make that judgment.
That is because what happens to them will be on me.
"However, I do acknowledge that torture can be severe enough for people to choose death"
Therefore, you must concede that circumstances beyond literal torture, such as inescapable desolation may also be severe enough for people to choose death.
People can and do choose death over it, too.
We're in a depression and suicide epidemic.
"At least you believe that abortion is killing a human being, or at least I think you do. "
No, I do not.
A fetus is not a human being, as a fetus does not attain sentience until long after birth.
" I do find it interesting that you would be concerned with suicide more then murder. "
Abortion isn't murder, but you're right, I do find suicide more concerning than murder.
Suicide has one primary cause; our world is no longer suitable to live in.
Murder typically has more complex motives and doesn't speak as loudly about quality of life for the people living in our world.
If you're afraid of death more than you're afraid of suffering, then that's just you.
People that have less prospects than you do typically think differently.
Even religious crazies think suffering is worse than death, why do you think they like to threaten people with Hell so much?
That said, if my child cannot grow up to live in better conditions than I did, I will choose to abort.
I do not believe that neglecting or abandoning a child is morally acceptable.
I believe abortion is the kindest option.
This is what I believe, and I have the right to do what I believe is the right thing to do.
If I have to fight for my autonomy like Ukraine, I will.
1
-
1
-
1
-
@thomassvoboda4747 Okay, starting over.
I firmly believe that there are things in this life that are worse than death.
Somebody that is burning to death is usually looking forward to death itself, and many survivors choose to die, some have fought legal battles for the right to die.
That said, I believe life without prospects is not a good thing.
Anyone that wants to live has something to live for, and the people that don't have something to live for commit crimes.
As our population increases, the compensation of labor goes down.
Labor becomes a buyer's market, somebody is always willing to do a miserable job for less than you.
When it comes down to it, more humans is only better up to a certain point.
Every plot of land has a population capacity, when that population capacity is reached, society becomes as fragile as it is now.
Prices rapidly increase as every country relies on outside help to feed their people, and when that helps stop, people go hungry.
We're lucky enough to not be facing hunger, but we certainly can't afford to be feeding children and giving them a future at the same time anymore.
If there was more room for humans on our planet, i don't think I'd be having this discussion with you right now.
But as it stands, we have reached capacity, and the expected standard of living for children has begun to decline.
We have it better than our grandparents, but our grandchildren will have it worse than us.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
@thomassvoboda4747 A discussion is a lot more than two sides giving their point of view, saying "We're different' and ending the discussion prematurely.
You learned not to strawman and not to ask for irrelevant personal information, but beyond that neither of us have learned a damn thing.
The goal of a debate isn't to convert your opponent to your side, but to learn.
You hold a very extreme position, and I believe that if you had a broader perspective of the human condition, that position would be a lot less extreme.
If you're interested in having a discussion in good faith, I would like for us to start over, again.
I'm in it for the long haul so long as there's something to be learned.
If someone has good intentions and a perspective that I don't share, then there's something for at least one of us to learn there.
I'm not about to withdraw from peaceful discourse simply because another participant doesn't agree with me.
That said, if you wish to withdraw from the conversation because you've already given me your entire worldview, then I have to ask...
...is that really it?
The reason I find it to be so off-putting that this discussion was so short is there are a lot of factors that have lead me to hold the position I do now as an individual.
Your position can't possibly be that simple.
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1
-
1