Comments by "milcoll73" (@thurin84) on "VICE TV"
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when you frame your position with phrases like "gun violence" and "gun deaths" you immediately demonstrate a willingness to be disingenuous. speaking of preformed opinions. the inanimate tool used is irrelevant. whats pertinent are "violence" and "violent deaths".
7:01 define "high income nation" and why is that a valid qualifier to parse information by?
7:05 why only "gun violence"? does that mean youre ok with other implement violence (which studies show gun control laws do not lower violence levels overall [ie criminals simply switch to other implements to commit their violence {which in some cases (such as australia) WENT UP after gun bans}]).
8:29 ok lets do a city to city, or city to rural area comparison because the "gun violence" you site most often occurs in large urban areas in those states OFTEN WITH STRICT GUN CONTROL, skewing your data.
9:53 yes, it can. which is why no one makes that argument. in fact it supports 2a position in that those laws also do not prevent what they outlaw, simply punish those that chose to break them. laws are there to punish those that chose to break them.
10:27 conversely just because some might, possibly show some minuscule effectiveness does not mean we SHOULD try it.
10:36 ONCE AGAIN WHY ONLY "GUN VIOLENCE"???? why dont we focus on lowering violence in general?
10:40 highly ironic for someone supporting the position for more gun control LAWS...
11:01 im right on board with you there. so, TELL ANTI GUN ORGANIZATIONS TO STOP SPENDING THEIR RESOURCES TO GET RID OF FIREARMS AND IMPEDE THE 2ND AMENDMENT so i can help support such measures.
11:23 well ill give you that, at least youre not conflating murders with suicides and pretending gun control laws will have any effect on suicide rates like most anti gun people. for that you have at least some respect from me.
11:43 and i posit that tying such laws that might have a slight effect IS NOT worth the liberties given up.
15:48 HEAR! HEAR! GOOD SIR. lets work together at solutions that could work, not keep trying the same thing over and over again, that clearly isnt.
17:02 WHY JUST THE 2A COMMUNITY???? everyone should be looking for indicators that people could be in trouble. its not just a 2a community issue.
17:36 odd since you support your premise on data parsed by state.
17:41 aaaaahhhhhh the "iron pipeline" myth. if loose gun laws is the culprit then why dont we see similar levels of "gun violence" in indiana? and notice how she said "many of" instead of the usual "most of" we used to hear from anti gun lobby spokespeople. thats because studies show that most of the firearms used in crimes in chicago originated in chicago and its environs.
17:46 evidence simply do not support that assertion.
18:07 FLAT OUT LIE! there are 22,000+ gun control laws on the books making firearms the single most regulated consumer commodity in the usa today.
18:14 so basically when at 10:40 you said earlier that "we focus too much on laws" you were speaking about yourself.
20:16 AGAIN WHY ONLY "GUN VIOLENCE" DEATHS???? speaking of "gun violence" deaths, even if you take the anti gun lobbies number of 33,000 (artificially inflated with suicide[2/3s]. accidents, and justifiable homicides, both police and civilian) at face value, with a population of around 330 million, thats 1/100th of a percent (.01%). 1/100th!!! while an premature death is a tragedy, we have much more pressing causes then "gun violence".
20:20 absolutely. go google volly gun, pepperbox pistol, puckle gun, kalthoff repeater, cookson volitional repeater, belton flintlock, jennings rifle, and girandoni air rifle. the capabilities of these firearms were known, in some cases well known to the founding fathers. also irelevent, because we still extend 1st amendment rights on social media despite there being no way of the founding father having conception of anything like such.
22:05 there are over 22,000+ constraints on the 2nd amendment. how much is too much?
23:39 you mean like laws agains murder, assault, armed robbery?
23:46 such laws are unconstitutional. why just gun owners? nearly anything can be used as a weapon to assault others. why are you singling out gun owners? especially considering the unlikelyhood (ie less then .01%) of falling afoul (even by your own hand) of harm by them, and the fact that (according to the cdc [hardly a bastion of 2a support]) between 500,000-3,000,000 americans defend themselves with a firearm per year.
24:29 why on earth are they leaving them in their cars??? OH THATS RIGHT, because gun control laws prevent them from keeping them on their person and under their control. ie this a direct unintended consequence of gun control laws. isnt it rich that its being used as justification for more gun control???
24:41 20-30 years lol??? thanks for showing your firearms ignorance lol!!! not one of my firearms is NEWER then 30 years. and not one of them has ever harmed anyone, at least while ive owned it.
25:05 you mean like letting gun owners keep it about their person so it has a less chance of getting stolen? like that?
28:08 speaking of being ignorant about firearms. 30 round magazines are STANDARD CAPACITY for modern sporting rifles. limiting the number of rounds (an why only 10? with what justification) does nothing as shooters will simply carry more lesser capacity magazines as has already happened in mass shootings. 30 round magazines do nothing to increase the leathality or rapidity of fire of any particular firearm.
28:18 at close range, id rather face a novice with any firearm then an expert with a knife or any other melee weapon.
28:20 see comments about 20:20
28:24 CITATION NEEDED! in many more cases a good guy with a gun engages the bad guy with the gun and ends the incident.
28:38 speaking of advocating legislation based on ignorance. using a couple anecdotal incidents while ignoring the plethora of contrary incidents.
28:50 that is a false dichotomy. the premise is the alleged benefit of gun control (ie lessening the number of "gun deaths" [ie 33,000+]) worth the benefits (ie 500,000-3,000,000 per year defending themselves with a firearm) of not enacting gun control. i think even if you only go by the numbers and remove the emotional tragedy, the answer is clear.
30:09 ie facts.
30:16 and a bare minimum of 1369 people DEFEND themselves with a firearm per day. i think that we would all agree that that is a benefit resulting from a crime problem (ie actions chosen by criminals that werent prevented by laws)
31:37 the be all, end all of your position seems to be that we need more laws to fix things. i disagree. i think societal and cultural solutions would be more beneficial.
31:41 once gain, even if you take the anti gun lobbys numbers of 33,000 at face value, with a population of around 330 million that equates to 1/100th (.01%) of a percent. that is in no way a "tremendous "gun violence" problem". to frame it as such is simply fear mongering.
if you voted prior to hearing maj closing argument, you are basing your opinions on emotional knee jerk reasoning and not considering the facts.
34:25 you can only frame the cleave in this way if you ignore the 2a side populational data (ie 33,000 "gun deaths vs 500,000-3,000,000) and the anti gun lobbies reliance on anecdotal data (ie the justification for 10 rounds or less magazines) which is highly, HIGHLY disingenuous.
42:11 yes. most free states adhere to the constitution.
43:11 thats because its has shown itself willing to overstep the constraints of the constitution so much.
43:26 because it has shown itself willing to engage in, shall we say, "extralegal" measures to enforce gun control laws (ie such as REPEATEDLY conducting home checks on ffl dealers and their wares at shall we say "less then convenient" times (ie 3 oclock in the morning and on holidays).
43:35 which would constitute an illegal and unconstitutional firearms registration that could be abused as it was in new york state awhile ago where owners personal information was leaked to the press AND PUBLISHED by an anti gun government official. i know of at least 3 burglaries (1 that was a friend of a friend) where guns were subsequently stolen.
43:47 because theyve used such inspections to harass lawful ffl dealers.
43:58 because, once again, they used such requirements to harass ffl dealers by holding inspections on holidays and the like.
44:07 other industries watchdog organizations havent used regulations to impede, harass, and bully individuals and manufacturers in a manner las the atf has its purview. the atf has rightfully EARNED every restriction placed upon it time and time again.
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45:00 ffl dealers are held to a higher standard of legality then any other industry BAR NONE.
45:19 then i would suggest you induce the watchdog organization you use to enforce such laws to STOP MAKING SUCH A PETTY NUISANCE OF ITSELF UPON LAWFULL DEALERS AND START CONCERNING ITSELF WITH ACTUAL WRONG DOERS!!!! also STOP TRYING THE LEGISLATE THE 2A COMMUNITY OUT OF EXISTENCE VIA INDUSTRY LEGISLATION AND OVERLY LITIGIOUS LAWFARE.
45:28 BULLSHIT!!!!! ANOTHER FLAT OUT LIE!!! firearms are subject to every other safety restriction as any other product on the market, in fact, much more so as evidenced by the 22,000+ gun control laws dealing specifically firearms.
45:36 BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! the only thing the PLCAA (The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act) protects firearms industry from are frivolous lawfare suits continually brought by the anti gun lobby in an attempt to backrupt them. once again they made such a nuisance out of themselves that specific legislation was required. i believe it was smith and wesson that was sued not so long ago for a firearms defect.
46:22 it is only treated differently because the anti gun lobby made such a nuisance of itself that specific legislation was required.
46:34 thats because she and her kind want the firearms industry regulated MUCH MORE then the automotive industry.
46:58 thats because any new innovation is immediately subjected to over regulation specifically because of the anti gun lobby.
46:07 the only "burdens" are those of consumer disinterest the same as any other industry. no rational person wants another level of possible failure between themselves and self defense when seconds matter.
51:17 well, there are currently 22,000+ "seat belt" and "drunk driving" laws affecting firearms. so does this mean youll support deregulating firearms to a level commensurate with card then? im confused. why didnt they just ban car accidents with high capacity inertia?
its never been culturally acceptable to murder someone with a gun (or any other inanimate object), or steal from them.
52:12 show me anywhere in the world where gun control has led to anything near a 16% drop OVER AND ABOVE the worldwide drop in violent crime in general even in countries without gun control. ill wait.......(chirp, chirp[crickets chirping]).
52:24 and yet still more people die from cars then by guns..........OK GREAT! SO LETS DEREGULATE FIREARMS COMMENSURATE WITH AUTOMOBILES THEN!!!
53:04 everyone of which the atf has earned due to the behaviors i detailed earlier.
53:27 because its had to due to anti gun lobby malfeasance.
53:38 that is regularly outspent BY A FACTOR OF 10 by the anti gun lobby and their supporters.
53:52 not "do nothing" just not adopt your ineffective, unconstitutional gun control laws. but not "do nothing". in any case, i would hardly call 22,000 gun control laws "nothing".
56:12 ie "iv been proven wrong, so now were going to move on" lol.
56:33 HE DID NOT SAY "ALL GUN CONTROL IS RACIST"!!!
1:01:55 anti gun lobby hoplohpobes always get hysterical about all things firearms related. a couple years ago shannon watts (a noted anti gun lobby organization leader) tweeted out that a black scary looking "assault weapon" needed to be banned. the firearm in question was a modern .50, single shot muzzle loading firearm for black powder hunting season.
1:02:08 there is no such thing as a "fully functional 3d printed gun". oh you can print such guns that will fire (a few times), but good luck hitting the broad side of a barn with them at any reasonable range lol.
1:02:34 there is no such thing as "untraceable" and "undetectable". and it is also logical to assume that such technologies to trace and detect will also advance as well, yes?
1:02:36 CITATION NEEDED! show me any such assassination committed with such a firearm, other then in a movie that is.
1:02:47 did the firearm function?
1:02:55 more like IMAGINED HARM. just sayin.
1:03:03 "how we can have pre crime" lol
1:04:10 the fallacy of that analogy is; there is no such thing as lawful counter fitting currency. there is such a thing as lawful firearms ownership. in fact its a constitutional amendment.
1:08:59 once gain, even if you take the anti gun lobbys numbers of 33,000 at face value, with a population of around 330 million that equates to 1/100th (.01%) of a percent.
1:09:02 indeed. but not with the measures your advancing.
1:09:41 thats not what he said. he simply said that the decision they were currently deliberating on was in no way to be taken as a decision for any other firearms issue.
1:10:09 what???? when? where? you know what though, back when there were less restrictions on firearms, there was a lot less "gun crime" then there was at the peak back in the 1990s.
1:10:14 sorry. facts dont care about your feelings. given its repeated failures, maybe that something else doesnt involve gun control.
1:10:40 no. that is not "the space" she is trying to operate in. she is advocating ever more and more useless gun control until they are completely controlled.
1:12:44 and yet japan, with a near total prohibition on private firearms ownership still manages to have a suicide rate over twice the usas. oh, and they still have mass shootings as well.
1:13:00 so stop including suicides as a rationale for gun control. already.
1:13:15 and yet japan, with a near total prohibition on private firearms ownership still manages to have a suicide rate over twice the usas.
so despite the moderators best framing efforts this demonstrates the the vast majority do not support gun control.
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