Comments by "TheThirdMan" (@thethirdman225) on "TIKhistory"
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It depends on a lot of things. If the Hamburg firestorm raids were anything to go by then yes, there probably were a number of people who were incinerated and never found or identified. But the casualty figures for Dresden have always been ‘in play’. The truth is that nobody knows. Do you count the victims in the city and stop there? Or do you include the refugees on the roads outside the city in the days following? The figures over 100,000 are almost certainly not accurate and yes, some of that was Nazi propaganda but with books from the likes of Frederick Taylor, I think there has been a bit of a tendency to swing back the other way, perhaps to the extent of underestimating. I didn’t like Taylor’s book. I didn’t like his book on the Berlin Wall either, for much the same reason. Not because his version of events didn’t tally with mine - in fact, he did succeed in changing my view. But Taylor seems to be trying to erase that sense of guilt felt by many a bomber crew on this operation and so many others like it and he’s just a bit too strident in his characterisations for me to be comfortable with what he’s saying. I will never know how those men felt and yes, everyone knows there was a war on. But adopting the, ‘Oh well, the Germans bombed Coventry’, line as a central tenet for thinking it only right and proper that Dresden should suffer as it did doesn’t quite cut it. Sure feelings ran high at the time but trying to take us back to thinking the same way isn’t a particularly noble position fifty or sixty years later.
I was in Dresden a bit over 30 years ago and it was still in ruins but with a large amount of realestate occupied by DDR-era monoliths. In fact I stayed in one of them, a former youth training facility to the south west of the city centre. The cobblestone streets still spoke, even then, of the city’s tragic history.
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@chuckysmaria6466 There weren't nearly as many of those as people think. It doesn't take a lot of reading to find that the number of people actually opposed to Hitler after say, 1933, was pretty small. A lot of people believe there was a significant proportion of the population who were against Hitler but within a year or so they were all gone. The average German figured that as long as the kept their noses clean, they led a reasonably good existence. Many just lived a life of conflicted resignation. There was no real resistance and certainly no formal resistance movement. There were plenty of big businesses that cooperated with ad supported the Nazis. Krupp, Porsche, MAN, Henschel, I.G. Faben and a whole host of others, who were actually a bit too big for even Hitler to intimidate, were quite happy to go along for the ride.
The Nazis were very corporate.
The point of all this is that if a nation as collectively intelligent as Germany could fall for a fraud like Hitler, anyone could. And we're seeing history repeat itself today.
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@hailbane9633 Good grief, it’s hard to know where to start with these assumptions. First of all, unions were banned under the Nazis. Who was the principal beneficiary? Corporations. Secondly, the Nazi party members who controlled the boards or were members of said board were board members before they became Nazis. They were not parachuted into the corporations as part of some imaginary Nazi policy. Finally, the much quoted example of price fixing is not an example of left wing policy. Quite the opposite. In most western democracies, price fixing is illegal. Without such laws, corporations will fix prices themselves. Who are the principal beneficiaries of this and other cartel-like behaviour? The corporations.
Unfortunately, this and other knee jerk reactionary assumptions are rarely tempered by a step backwards to look at the bigger picture. Before declaring something you don’t like as “left wing” or “socialism”, you would do well to use the Latin moto, “qui Bono?” (Who benefits?”) In other words, follow the money. Corporations had a very large amount of leverage in the Nazi economy and were not acting under the direction of the government.
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@w8stral Well you fell head-long into that, didn’t you?
You might have missed it but the increasing gap between rich and poor and the growth in insecure employment at the lower end of the job market in the west is hardly Marxism. Furthermore, with universities running courses to supply industry, the content is hardly likely to be Marxist either, for reasons of practicality, if nothing else. If humanities courses are run by Marxists then perhaps you could explain the runaway success of basically unregulated capitalism over the past thirty years because according to you, this is a product of “the left”, or whatever else you imagine it to be. Ye they are the products of parliaments made up of largely University-educated representatives. Then there’s the massive growth on alt-right ideology that has spawned such cultural luminaries as Anders Behring Breivik and Brenton Tarrant. Was it cultural Marxism that stormed the Capitol building in January? No, of course it wasn’t. Well, not unless you believe another well-known cultural Marxist mouthpiece, QAnon. Was it a cultural Marxist who shot up that mosque in Christchurch? Nope. Was it a cultural Marxist who shot and killed more than 70 people at a meeting of young socialists in Norway a few years ago? Nope.
If the marxists are in charge, they’re doing a rubbish job of being Marxist.
In short, cultural Marxism is the rally cry of a loser/victim cult that has no use in society. And you can call me all the names you like for daring to disagree but really all you’re doing is trying to enforce your own version of political correctness, the thing you people despise the most.
I’m loving this.🤗
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@duality5503 Once again, so what? Who denies that the Nazis were violent? Nobody. Who denies that they had left wing policies? Nobody. Who denies that they had right wing policies? Nobody. Well, nobody who knows anything about it, anyway. So really, all you’ve got a bee in your bonnet about is being able to leverage this as an argument against socialism. If you had ever read anything of substance about the history of Hitler and the Nazis, like Fest’s book, “The Face of the Third Reich” or “Hitler” by the same author, you would know that everything you are saying is completely pointless and designed to “convert” you.
In short, you are being manipulated, mostly by elaborate fakery and distortion. If you can’t learn to grade information properly then you probably haven’t much hope.
All extremist and totalitarian movements come disguised as people’s movements. That doesn’t make them socialist. In fact, it doesn’t confer any particular political belief. What history does show us though is that such movements are usually happy to embrace dictatorship. Look what’s happening in Eastern Europe right now as irrational fear of socialism gives rise to the extreme right and increasingly one party states.
Look at what happened in the former Yugoslavia when propagandists primed the population on all sides and rode the crest of filthy nationalism to what was supposed to be a glorious victory. All because people believed what they were told and didn’t check it.
You are being led along by the nose. I hope you learn the art of bullshit detection before it’s too late because you are falling for the very tactics Hitler and the Nazis used. Those who don’t learn from history are bound to repeat it.
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