Comments by "Mat Broomfield" (@matbroomfield) on "Bearing"
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I can certainly see the appeal of thinking that it was Trump's tough talk that brought this about. Maybe it even did, but can you honestly say for one single second that Trump considered his actions strategically? Don't get me wrong, if his actions bring about peace, even accidentally, I'll take it, but as he's shown time and again, he doesn't act militarily for the greater good. His repeated questions about dropping nukes, targetting civilians with drones, and stealing oil from the people America supposedly helps has shown that.
So if I very grudgingly acknowledge the fractional possibility that the only thing that brought one madman with a nuclear arsenal to the negotiating table, was a big madman with a nuclear arsenal, don't expect me to stand and cheer his inept global policy.
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Utterly, utterly weaksauce response that amounted basically to an appeal to consequence and an appeal to history. Humans have stereoscopic vision therefore we should continue to live carnivorously". Well humans have vestigial tails, does that mean we should swing through the trees? Humans have an appendix, so we should do whatever that necessitated? Africans have dark skin, so they should never live anywhere but Africa?
And the whole "animals live better lives because we raise them to slaughter them argument", again, utterly vacuous. If I give you 50 years of bliss on the understanding that I get to slaughter and eat you afterwards, how many people consider that reasonable?
This entire video is simply a weak ass attempt at post hoc justification. In my opinion, the only honest response to eating animals is "I like meat and the death of animals to satisfy that desire is less important than my desire for meat, or my willpower not to eat it." It's lame, but at least it's honest and it's my position.
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The fact that animals fight to REMAIN alive merely goes to show how strongly the instinct is genetically imprinted. It says nothing about the validity of that as a choice, when your sole purpose is to be someone else's food. Moreover, the fact that even children will beg for death if you subject them to suffering for long enough goes to show how easy it is to negate that desire, and why QUALITY of life is also a factor.
Morals may be subjective, but they CAN be quantified. There are universal values that the majority of rational unindoctrinated humans adhere to. I absolutely agree with Sam Harris's take on this, that morality can be considered as the course of action that leads to the greatest flourishing. I do 100% agree with you that all morality is subjective, but within any society there is very broad agreement on the massive majority of things that are moral and immoral, with fuzziness in a lot of control freakish, religious control areas. Of course, even the morals that you claim are objective, are not. Go to an LA gang in the 80s or a Mexican gang, and murdering and torturing innocent people is PERFECTLY acceptable. The fact that you can train yourself to lack any empathy for other lives is kind of the point because we DO have a fundamental respect for life built in, which is why foremen and police and soldiers can be permanently mentally harmed simply by some of the things they see.
" but god damn that was one of the most backward, upside down, idiotic arguments I have ever heard"
ROFL. I can see how that sounds! I didn't articulate myself well. Let me try again. When you have a discussion with say a child sex predator, they will slip and slide every possible way, make every possible lame ass attempt to justify their actions. That's exactly how I see the arguments from meat eaters like this guy. I wouldn't respect a pedophile more who just said "Well I'm sexually attracted to kids - live with it" but it would be honest. Same here.
"And the same could be said in reverse... nobody is forcing vegans to engage with non-vegans... it's called a dialog dude."
I realise that but you said "vegans will not accept it." Well if I said to you that all people called Bob were 7 feet tall, you would never accept it either. Now there's no point me complaining that people won't concede my argument when my argument is nonsensical. You persuade people with better ideas not louder shouting.
It seems to me that 99% of meat eaters arguments are mere post hoc justifications. We could at least have a reasonable back and forth on the quality of their life in the wild, or the ethics of killing animals, or whether we can simply consider them expendable because they are less intelligent, but none of those tracks leads anywhere good because you can easily turn them back on humans. Why don't we cannibalise stupid people, or old people or children or people with a poor quality of life? But when people start talking about incisors and stereo vision they immediately forfeit the argument.
You seem like a reasonable guy, and I like to think that if I made some great point on this issue, you would go away and perhaps re-evaluate your position in light of that point, as I would if you do so. But if I felt that you were not discussing in good faith, I'd probably end the conversation quickly. That's the point I was making.
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