Comments by "Hobbs" (@hobbso8508) on "Intercollegiate Studies Institute"
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@shgalagalaa
"I love how you are completely unable to engage a topic without sounding like the most biased individual ever. Your very first sentence implies that people can only have their human rights met under socialism which is a hilariously bad take."
No, it implies that socialism guarantees human rights, while capitalism does not. Nothing about capitalism guarantees human rights, and in fact any capitalist system that does is usually doing it by other means. Now, could a capitalist nation meet the human rights of all of its citizenry? Sure, for example Finland. But these days nations tend to do that by implementing some form of socialism. Housing first initiatives, food stamps, TANF, energy bill assistance and a whole host of other government initiatives paid for by tax dollars to help those at the bottom and provide them with human rights. Programs which have long been attacked by businesses and complained about by politicians funded by said businesses.
"Regardless. If one is to be the owner of their own body they must be free to do with their body as they please and be entitled to the fruits of their labour aswell as spend it as you see fit."
This is besides the point. Being free to do as you please is all well and good, right up until you have a need that cannot be paid for. Would you argue that someone with a disability that renders them unable to work is "free" as they can "be the owner of their own body"? In a capitalist system that which cannot be paid for is simply impossible to gain. Want to pay rent and buy food? Too bad, you don't make enough money, time to pick one. It's also odd you talk about being entitled to the fruits of your own labour, but capitalists remove a portion of those fruits for their own gain, that is in fact the entire basis of capitalism. Now here is the real kicker, is your right to keep some portion of your income, income that was made possible by the many government systems put in place to guarantee the infrastructure and legal protection for the business you work at to survive, greater than the rights of people needing food, housing and healthcare? Should people die from preventable diseases just so you can avoid taxes?
"That is someone who is more productive will be forced to give up what they deserve due to to their higher productivity to someone who has a lower productivity."
That does depend on the type of socialism and the sort of system you are critiquing. Market socialism for example would have the same free market and same payment systems as current capitalist companies, however the leadership of the company is elected by the employee members, and the ownership of the company is evenly distributed among said employee-memebers, meaning any dividends are paid to all workers and any leadership decisions are subject to a the will of the people lest the leadership are removed due to the unpopular decisions. As such, people can still be fired, including leadership. On a more national scale you are talking about welfare, but welfare systems are not paid for by people who will have reduced freedom from the payment. You don't lose out on buying food to pay your taxes, because taxes are graduated to allow those at the bottom to get the help they need. Instead, tax dollars are taken from those that can afford it based on their income.
"Also not having capital markets restricts individuals from spending what they earn as they see fit given that all means of production have to be owned collectively for it to be socialism."
Again, not in market socialiam. Free markets still exist, the companies are just cooperatives. They are collectively owned by their own employees. In fact, as Will likes to point out, most companies are owner-operated and therefore would not change at all under a system like this.
"Socialism by definition revolves around restricting what people can do with their money aswell as stopping them from earning according to their productivity. This is the core of socialist beliefs and the above sacrifices are admissable as the benefits are perceived far larger in magnitude."
I mean, it sounds like you need an education on market socialism. Your entire argument revolves around government ownership and planned economies. Market socialism has neither. In fact, market socialism rewards workers more, not less, allowing them to keep more of what they earned, without a company removing their labour to turn a profit or add to a market cap that they have no control or
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