Comments by "" (@samrichie1157) on "KPBS Public Media"
channel.
-
11
-
10
-
8
-
8
-
7
-
6
-
5
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
4
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
3
-
Cera Maria Your arguments for keeping orcas in captivity are incredibly flawed, so I wouldn't pretend you are winning any arguments.
You say there is only a limit to what can be learned about orcas in the wild, yet learning about an orca in such an abnormal environment is far more limiting (some experts say that limit was reached many years ago) and the research results do nothing to help wild orcas. All the research in captivity is centered around husbandry care, though not necessarily a bad thing but it does nothing to help the conservation of wild orcas. And with better technology, studying orcas in the wild is becoming much easier than in the past, which makes studying them in captivity even more redundant. And of course if orcas were only studied in a tank, we would know little to nothing about their social structures, dialects, life spans, hunting habits, eco-types, diets etc.. In fact the American Cetacean Society has even concluded that 'the scientific findings [from captive orcas] could be misleading for management of wild killer whales as their blood chemistry, physiology and disease profiles differ from their captive counterparts'.
And your argument for releasing captive orcas because they would be hunted is unfounded. Can you even provide any evidence or research based on this assumption?! Yes, some orca populations are still hunted (in certain parts of the world), but I have never heard of this reason as to why captive orcas shouldn't be released. I don't like to use lifespans in the argument of captivity, but I find it strange when people think orcas are better off in captivity by suggesting being in the wild is so dangerous for them, yet even the most fragile and endangered orca population, the Southern Resident population, has a better life expectnancy and survival rate than captive orcas; in fact SeaWorld has to twist and manipulation data for their captive orcas to even get close to wild orca survival rates.
https://www.thedodo.com/community/NaomiRose/everything-wrong-with-seaworld-561608176.html
3
-
3
-
2
-
hik Efg did you actually read this article: http://da15bdaf715461308003-0c725c907c2d637068751776aeee5fbf.r7.cf1.rackcdn.com/6dddf92aae6544cc8c45aa04e7e0274b_seaworld-truth-brochure.pdf ???
Here's an example of the misinformation that SeaWorld uses in the above article:
" The data we do have show that killer whales at SeaWorld are living as long as their counterparts in the wild.
In peer-reviewed studies, scientists estimate that the average, or mean, life expectancy for a female is 30
years and a male is 19 years in the Pacific Northwest .
For whales in southeastern Alaska, the maximum longevity appears to be in the 50s for females and late
30s for males. So, in those two areas of the world, female killer whales live around 30 to 50 years and males live
around 19 to 30 years.
SeaWorld has several killer whales in their 30s and one that is close to 50. "
........So, SeaWorld says their orcas live as long as their wild counterparts by saying they have 'SEVERAL killer whales in their 30's and ONE that is close to 50' ??
The article also claims their orcas live in 'safe and sophisticated habitats'. The habitat is nothing but a sterile swimming pool. Nothing which even remotely replicates their natural habitat. And their habitat is responsible for this:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/01/article-2211159-154B93C6000005DC-703_634x353.jpg and this:
https://theorcaproject.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/c_image.jpg
as well as the many issues these animals have with their teeth because they grind them on the side of their tanks and other objects.
Here's another interesting piece from this article:
"SeaWorld recognizes the important bond between mother and calf, and everything we do in the care of our young whales is centered on that bond"
......This is a company that separated mother and calf to send the calf half way around the world to Tenerife on a breeding loan and expected her to become a mother herself. She has since given birth twice and rejected both calves. Of course this isn't the only example, SeaWorld have a long history of separating real orca families and forcing them into artificial families.
And here's another misleading claim in the article:
"RESEARCH AT SEAWORLD BENEFITS KILLER WHALES IN THE WILD"
The article then says "The Southern Resident killer whales off the U.S. and Canadian Pacific Coast are listed as endangered by the National Marine Fisheries Service. The research we conduct and support at SeaWorld is made available to the scientific community and may someday help researchers understand why this population of whales is in decline."
.......So SeaWorld actually has NO EVIDENCE that their research is helping wild orcas...only that it MAY SOMEDAY help with the conservation of wild orcas. SeaWorld obviously also fails to mention that the Southern Resident population was drastically reduced when many were killed and captured by the marine park industry in the 70's, which involved people on SeaWorld's payroll.
I also disagree with SeaWorld's claim that only studying orcas in captivity can give us insight into metabolism, reproduction, physiology, health and disease etc.. because all these things will be different with wild orcas, so the research on captive orcas is going to produce different (and misleading) data. This is backed up by orca experts and the American Cetacean Society.
2
-
Cera Maria "studying the dolphins in captivity DOES give them the best insight into their physiology because they can see exactly what caused something to happen"
- After reviewing SeaWorld's research, the American Cetacean Society actually concluded that "the scientific findings could be misleading for management of wild killer whales as their blood chemistry, physiology and disease profiles differ from their captive counterparts."
Below is a quote by Debbie Giles, an orca researcher for 20 yrs, with a Phd in marine biology:
"You can study respiration rates in captive killer whales and it's going to be very different form what you see in wild killer whales. Even gestation, pregnancy stuff, is ultimately probably very different. How long they can hold their breath. You can't test a captive killer whale and say well killer whales can only hold their breath for this many minutes. Because that killer whale in captivity hasn't had to hold its breath for X amount of time. We aren't going to know anything about metabolism or food consumption, I don't think because the killer whales in captivity are being fed a very, very artificial diet and all the vitamins and everything that the captives have to have just to stay alive, you're not going to have that here."
"Sea World doesn't catch the dolphins in the wild anymore unless they are sick or injured" - I never said they did. However they have no problem with trying to get their hands on captured beluga whales.
"By studying the animals in captivity, they can gain the best advantage to help the wild orcas live a happier life and keep them safe from the dangers that threaten them today."
- Problem is, this isn't true. There is no evidence to suggest that studying captive orcas is doing anything to help populations such as the Southern Residents, which are endangered. Plus you seem to imply that all wild orca populations are in danger, which is not the case; some are doing perfectly fine.
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
Jonathan Stephens Of course there is a risk swimming with orcas, both captive and wild (they are massive marine mammals after all). But the fact remains that no one has been seriously injured by a wild orca (and the few 'attacks' that have occurred could be attributed to mistaken identity. And if wild orcas posed a threat to humans we would know by now, as there has been people in the water with orcas. Orcas just don't see us as their prey, so when they do attack humans it's because they aren't happy with whatever situtation they are in.
"The question we should be asking is with respect to the data, and if it is really valid or large enough to support your hypothesis?"
We know many wild animals (including those in the ocean) which pose a threat to humans, why is it not feasible we don't know whether wild orcas are a threat?
I agree you have to look at each captive orca differently. It's entirely possible Tilikum (which SW didn't allow trainers in the water with) had developed aggressive and possessive tendencies because of his history in captivity, but that hardly refutes my argument.
Likewise, you could also look at Keto and see he was at his 4th marine park in 7 years when he killed Alexis Martinez at Loro Parque.
2 years before Alexis's death, another trainer almost died at Loro Parque after Tekoa grabbed the trainers arm, dragging her to the bottom of the pool then over to a gate where the orca proceeded to hit her into the gate (btw, these are SW orcas at LP and everything at LP was setup and overlooked by SW trainers).
And Kasatka could have easily killed Ken Peters, but let him go (he could have drowned if he wasn't able to hold his breath for so long). There is evidence to suggest Kasatka was distressed from hearing her calf cry out in a nearby pool which is what provoked the attack (but of course will never know 100% her true intentions).
None of these attacks detract from my argument, they just strengthen it; i.e. that all these attacks are bourne out of symptoms from being in captivity. The attacks cannot just be considered because of the simple notion that 'there are more interactions with captive orcas than wild orcas'. It's not just about numbers, it's about the situation.
2
-
2
-
Cera Maria 'No they wouldn't' - what is this in response to?
I have no idea why you start mentioning collapsed dorsal fins, but happy to discuss this...
It is very rare to see orcas in the wild with collapsed dorsal fins, I have heard experts say maybe 1% of wild orcas have this and when wild orcas do have a collapsed dorsal fin it is usually from an injury and certainly not a good thing.
In captivity, almost all male orcas have collapsed dorsal fins, and although it's not (directly) down to stress, is it a result of their living environment being abnormally small which results in an abnormal fin. This is because in the wild, orcas spend a lot of time underwater (where there is no gravity), whereas in captivity, as they have nothing to do but spend most of their time logging on the surface of the water, the gravity puts more pressure on the fin and it collapses under its own weight. Of course there might be other factors that also cause this, such as having to spend a lot of time swimming in circles rather than a straight line (again because their living environment is so small), which puts more pressure on one side of the fin.
So it is the living environment that is the cause of so many captive orcas having collapsed fins (just like it is this living environment that is the cause of their stress).
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2
-
2