Comments by "Edward Cullen" (@edwardcullen1739) on "Sea Lion: Why not just invade the UK in 1940?" video.

@martinwood2219 It's mentioned in the video, but it's really overlooked - the Royal Navy. Most of the actions we here about were small-scale, long-range; River Plate 3 on 1, Denmark Strait 2 on 2... But the Home Fleet - all of it - going up against a dense formation of unarmoured transports... I'm not a Navy man, but I'm pretty sure there would have been some absolutely Nelsonesque tactics "Forget maneuver, just go hard at them." My bet is that the Home Fleet would simply have driven straight through the middle of the invasion flotilla - so close they couldn't miss and so close that U-boats and German MTBs would have to risk hitting their own... Both glorious and terrible, but given, as pointed out, the British could afford the losses and the Germans couldn't, the invasion would have to be called off, with Dieppe-levels of losses for the Germans. I think what would be more interesting is if Sealion HAD been attempted, how that would have shifted the balance strategically: With almost all of Germany's elite/experienced formations dead or mauled to ineffectiveness, what would happen subsequently? Would Crete have fallen? Greece? Would the loss of naval power suffered by Britain have meant that, ultimately, the Mediterranean would be lost, even though Germany would have lost so many troops? Or would the fact that the invasion was so comprehensively crushed mean less troops were held back in Britain and the morale impact be devastating to the Germans?
5
@iansneddon2956 I don't think the Home Fleet had 60 destroys at the time, but they did have several cruisers and battleships/battlecruisers. While being in amongst the transports would offer some protection against torpedoes, Stuka would have less issues, so, unless the raid happened at night, it seems likely to me that the Germans would exact a heavy toll with their air power...
2
@iansneddon2956 Hey, no problem! I'm sorry if I was gave the impression that I was completely dismissing the naval disparity - after all, a single cruiser would be worth 2 or 3 destroyers once it was in amongst the transports... I was also being generous, with respect to the Luftwaffe; that even if the skies were completely clear of RAF AND the Stukas were effective, the volume of damage that the Home Fleet could do, even if it were a "one off suicide run" would be so enormous that there would be no way the Germans could sustain the invasion. I was trying to emphasise, to the uninitiated, just how brutal such a mass fleet battle would be, relative to the "sedate" and "gentlemanly" examples of WW2 naval warfare we would typically think of, such as River Plate. To be fair, I need to plead ignorance to that exercise - I've heard that it happened, but none of the details. Did the gamers look at the long-term consequences of a failed invasion, from a broader strategic perspective, such as North Africa / US entry to the war / Barbarossa?
2
@iansneddon2956 Wow, yeah, that's exactly the kind of "creative brutality" I was thinking of... And that's before one looks at the effects of the main armament (or even the AAA batteries, assuming a night attack...)
2
@kemarisite True, but it was operational for the crucial early days of the invasion and IIRC, repaired after being damaged...
1
@kemarisite Cool, thanks for the clarification! 🙂
1
This is actually something I'd like to see explored in a measured way (not some ra-ra feel-good cheap docudrama...) Assuming Hitler had gone for it in August 1940, when Fighter Command was at its weakest, but assume that "nothing else" changed, other than German bombing maybe being split to attack coastal fortifications.... What forces would have been committed? Would the Royal Navy harry by night, or would it gone for a "death or glory" daylight mass-attack on the invasion fleet? How would 1941 played out, especially North Africa? Would German be "neutralised", if not defeated before Japan entered the war? Or would the loss of German troops be balanced-out by British naval losses, with the war carrying-on, pretty-much as it did (except maybe Barbarossa in '42?)
1
@johnsmith-wv4jw I'm not sure that "it was never close", IIRC, there was one day in August where 11 group had 6 operational fighters (it may have been 11+12 combined, I don't remember...) Granted, from that point, numbers steadily increased, but this also coincided with a shift in German focus away from attacking the RAF directly. Not that it would have made much difference, as the Navy would still have been the deciding factor, but the air battle had its moments!
1
@johnsmith-wv4jw Agreed. Even if U-boats managed to score some "wins" against the Home Fleet as they moved against the invasion, this would likely, at best account for 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser and 2 capitals (or maybe the carrier). This would still leave an enormous amount of firepower for either nighttime raiding or a single massed-attack, neither of which the Germans had any way to effectively counter...
1