Comments by "faron tilley" (@forzaisspeed) on "Binkov's Battlegrounds"
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@KjetilBalstad
Makes sure you read it carefully, not like dumbass kids that just try to attack 1 or 2 areas.
The Eurofighter is the best.
Some Example's to show why the Eurofighter is king, few years reading reports and papers and speaking with pilots themselves on the matter, and all can be found online Paper's and Reports open to read.
The Specs of the Eurofighter vs F-22 for example and some others to compare.
Speed /
Eurofighter - 1550 mph - Mach 2.0 TMS.
F-22 - 1495 mph - Mach 1.95 TMS.
Rafale - 1381 mph - Mach 1.8 TMS.
F-16 - 1500 mph - Mach 1.95 TMS.
F-35 - 1200 mph - Mach 1.56 TMS.
Altitude Ceiling /
Eurofighter 65,000 f.
F-22 65,000 f.
Rafale 50,000f.
F-16 50,000+f.
F-35 50,000f.
The Sustained and Instantaneous Turn Rates, reports and papers that I've read over the years, state some what different numbers to others, so I've found the mid of the numbers for a ( about number ), for example the Eurofighter some reports and papers say between 26 to 31 D/S, so about 28.5 D/S and again for the F-22 between 25 to 29.5 D/S so about 27 D/S.
But just to say that yes the F-22 uses 1D Thrust Vectoring, but the Eurofighter had the highest number, in most reports and papers, but I'll get to why Thrust Vectoring on the F-22 is not something you want to trust in, due to its quick energy bleed and loss of speed quite fast, and if it does not get in to position quickly, it's like a sitting duck.
Sustained Turn Rate /
Eurofighter - about 28.5 D/S.
F-22 - about 27 D/S.
Rafale - about 27 D/S.
F-16 - about 18 D/S.
F-35 - about 11 to 16 D/S.
Instantaneous Turn Rate /
Eurofighter - about 36.5 D/S.
F-22 - about 35 D/S.
Rafale - about 36 D/S.
F-16 - about 26 D/S.
F-35 - about 26.5 D/S.
Now focusing more on the Eurofighter vs F-22.
Engine Thrust /
Eurofighter 21,500 ibf x2.
F-22 35,000 ibf x2.
Plus the Eurofighter's EJ200 Engines are the most advanced, with a reliability rate of over 1000 hours and still performance like new.
Eurofighter is lighter and smaller so a higher Thrust to weight ratio.
The Eurofighter has better range / Combat and A to B.
The Eurofighter Has a Better Dive/Cilmb Rate with better energy hold.
G's and -G's.
Eurofighter 9+ and -3.5G's.
F-22 9+ and -3.2G's.
Most jet's can pull 9+ G's but only some can high -G's.
Hard Points /
Eurofighter 13.
F-22 8.
Gun /
Eurofighter x1 27mm with 150 rounds.
F-22 x1 20mm with 480 rounds.
Missiles BVR - WVR /
Eurofighter BVR Meteor Missile the best in the world x2 ranges 1st 150km for fast agile Targets 2nd in testing showed to go 300km for other Targets, The Biggest NEZ of 60km, Speed of Mach 4.5, more Agile then the AIM-120D, as well the Meteor uses a ramjet meaning it maintains power to the target, WVR the ASRAAM Faster then the AIM-9X and more agile between 5 to 55km, and the ASRAAM is a 6.5inch diameter vs the 5inch on the AIM-9X so about a 70% more volume rocket propellant, meaning a longer burn time.
F-22 BVR AIM-120D 1x range Maxed at 160km a NEZ of 20km, and a speed of Mach 4, WVR AIM-9X more agile under 5km, range 30+km.
And both AIM-9X and ASRAAM use a IR seeker, so heat seeking and the ASRAAM and newer 9X's able to be used as LOAL and LOBL with the ASRAAM being able to outperform the 9x in 180 over the shoulder launches, and with the ASRAAM using IR imaging to better its ability.
But no pilot will use the full range of their missile, like the 150+km on the Meteor or the 160km on the 120D due to the low chance of really hitting anything, and giving the enemy longer for the RWS's to pick it up and just do a 180 run, making the distance longer for the Missile, you'll want to fire within about 100 - 70km or even 50km, to have a higher chance for the Missile to hit and less time for the enemy to have to counter.
This is what I find funny is that people say, ( well this jet can fire from hundreds of miles away and kill it before ) NO, it's Bullshit their are the one's that don't know fuck about RWS's - MTT or even Defences, older 3rd gen jets with old as shit RWS's yes probably, but not 4th gen or 3rd gen with advanced or one of the most advanced RWS's ever in it.
Just to point out that the numbers on all missiles like the 120D Meteor R-77 PL-15 and so on, all have a range of what it can do with still the ability to hit a target ( effective range ), but most of the time it's in good weather conditions, so ranges will very.
Eurofighter uses the Striker 2 Helmet more advanced and able to lock on to targets and fire with out lining the jet up with the target, and has night vision built in, with out needing a different piece of equipment on the pilots head.
F-22 is outdated and old the hardware and software is not there to be able to use the Helmet to lock on and fire like the Eurofighter can, so the F-22 needs to line up to lock and fire.
Radar /
The Eurofighter uses one of the best Radars out today Captor M most powerfule in its class Plus it has a wider field of view then some electronic scan radar with a fixed plate, able to pick up the F-35 and F-22 from distance, and able to track a multi group of targets at once, plus the new Captor E Radar will and is one of the most powerfule Morden Radars for the Future.
F-22 has a good Radar picks up the Eurofighter from distance as well but even though the F-22 may see the Eurofighter at about 200km the 120D's range is 160km max and no pilot will use max range, and with the Eurofighter jamming for example in some exercise the F-22 was not able to get a lock until about 30km away from the Eurofighter, and same with F-22 and most jet's having jamming to stop the lock on's, but the F-22's radar cant handle as much as other radars can, but still can track lots of targets.
Plus the Eurofighter has many different radars and systems around the Jet's body, helping it in RWS's and able to see a 360 decrease around the Jet, plus the Eurofighter's new Captor E Radar being able to fire Missiles then turn the jet more then 90 dec and still having the ability of guiding the Missiles to the target, as well as the Striker 2 gives the Eurofighter a bigger advantage in a BVR fight, but the F-22 does not have such abilitys and with just the one radar for fox 1 and fox 3's for example needs to maintain the Radar pointing at its target, meaning the F-22 is getting closer and closer to its target, and does not have IRST like the Eurofighter so the F-22 is blind in the heat seeking area, plus with the Eurofighter's IRST Pirate has a range of over 70 - 100km and able to pick up a stealth jet like the F-22 at 50+km, meaning the Eurofighter can fire a ASRAAM at the F-22, and it being a Imaging IR missile it is harder for the F-22's RWS to pick up on, not impossible but harder to see, the F-22 does not have other systems around the body to help guide any missile after it turns beyond its radar sight, so making the F-22 again having to stay pointing at the enemy getting closer and closer to it, and with the Eurofighter have IFF DASS MIDS LDP DVI VTAS HOTAS and IRST as well as the mean radar and others the Eurofighter is just getting better and better, as well as its specs and proformas.
In War Games the Eurofighter and F-22 have both won against each other in WVR, but the Eurofighter and F-22 have not fought in BVR yet.
Design /
Eurofighter was designed for Air Dominance and does have some stealth in the design having the smallest RCS against the Rafale and Gripen, with the Wing Design on the Eurofighter it is 20% more efficient then your wing design on the F-22, The Eurofighter is a Swing-Roll as well meaning it can hold both air to air and air to ground payloads at the same time, the F-22 its one or the other.
The Eurofighter can do all the F-22 can do plus more, The Eurofighter has better specs better Missiles better Hardware and Software plus is used by the best the RAF.
Plus the F-22 is to expensive for the US to upgrade and keep maintaining, the F-22 was stop being made years ago, but the Eurofighter is still being maintained and still being updated with newer and newer Hardware and Software.
Eurofighter King.
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Daniel Large
Stealth means nothing, in fact stealth holds jets back.
Stealth can be defeated with a IR System, Morden IR System can track the heat between the Jet's body and wings due to the friction with the air, so for example the Eurofighter's IRST Pirate System, can see and track the F-22 from around 100+km depending on the weather, and with the Meteor Missile able to use that range, while the F-22 a doesn't have a IRST and can only track with its APG-77 or 77v1, and yes maybe able to see the Eurofighter from around 100+km away using Radar the F-22 doesn't have a Missile that can be used, the 120D is a SSR and only really having a good hire rate at around 70-80km, and the F-22's RCS is only good in a head on, if the F-22 needs to turn your show any other part of its body to the Eurofighter, the Eurofighter's Captor M for now, can see the F-22 at around 55km in a head on, but as soon as the F-22 moves the range of the Captor M to the F-22 goes up, and RAM only absorbs around 10-15% of the Waves fr Radars anyway.
Basically Stealth doesn't help in the real world, especially if you don't have the weapons to back it up with, the F-22 would need to get within 70km to have a "good chance" of a hite, while the Eurofighter has the F-22 all locked in to fire at 80km for example, remember BVRM's have a bad hit rate at distance and the 120D being a SSR vs the Meteor being a DSR Ram engine.
As for the F-35 yes it's stealthy and is going to be fitted with the Meteor well the Royal Navy's B types are, the F-35 has bad performance and bad specs, no Supercruise for one that weakens the F-35's stealth if it has to go over Mach 1, plus its can't turn as tight or climb as high, 50,000f no supercruise can't turn or run, only holds 4 to 6 BVRM's depending on load out and Type of F-35, with 2 IR Missiles, yes is has very good Software and Electronic Warfare abilities, but as soon as its seen and in the real world, in a war zone with other systems in play the F-35 will need to have back up, SU-35 is more then capable of taking out the F-35.
Plus the US is returning the F-22 early somewhere in the 2030's, so the US soon won't have a jet to back up the F-35 with.
Stealth is good on paper and in Red Flag, but in a real life fight/war stealth not so good, especially now with Morden jets and not old 3rd generation MIG's.
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No they do not.
The Eurofighter has a HMD, the F-22 does not, that is why reports have come out with details on the F-22's upgrades, and one of the many upgrades for it is a HMD, but it won't get it until I think 2024.
The Eurofighter on the other hand does have a HMD, and one of the most advanced to date, out performance the F-35's G3 Helmet System in area's, the Eurofighter's Strike 2 is able to see though the body and able to use its IRST and Captor Radar, to find and track plus able to fire missiles in a LOBL OTS, while the Eurofighter is pointing in the opposite direction, something the F-22 can't do.
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@KjetilBalstad
I think you'll find that what I have put is more Fact then anything you will find on youtube.
And you seen to not know that first see first shot is not as good as you think, for many reasons, RWS's Defences and the fact that missiles have a bad hit rate at distance.
Yes I know that the 120D and 9x are both LOAL and LOBL, just like the Meteor and ASRAAM, but the point being that you have missed, is that the F-22 can't lock on and fire unless the F-22 is pointing in the same area, cause if it fires a 120D for example and it does not see the jet with its own seeker then its a wast of a missile, at least the Eurofighter can help the Missile in LOAL with the helmet to find the target.
With RWS's and MWS's the Eurofighter will know as soon as the F-22 sees the it, and will start to counter, remember missiles have a bad hit rate at distance, so the F-22 only holds 6 BVR missiles max and both the 120D and 120C aren't as advanced as the Meteor in terms of Performance and Harder to Jam and Trick for example, plus the Eurofighter holds more Defences then the F-22, as well as being more agile, the F-22 has a harder time to hit the Eurofighter then the other way round, plus the Eurofighter can jam the F-22 and then use its helmet or IRST to lock on and fire against the F-22 while the F-22 is blind, while Jamming the F-22 has to get about 30km to the Eurofighter to it on radar again, so just cause the F-22 can see the Eurofighter first means nothing, the Eurofighter is more advanced better performance, better Missiles and a better jet all round.
The Eurofighter and F-22 have not done BVR Fights before, just WVR and the Eurofighter has won so many times even the German Eurofighter's lacking some hardware and software, but even them kicked the F-22's ass.
With guiding missiles to the target yes a jet must maintain radar lock for example Fox 1's are a guide missile needing lock on, Fox 2's are IR base basically WVR Missiles, Fox 3's are like Meteor and 120D LOAL and LOBL missiles, but in a BVR case Missiles give off radiation to the enemy jet that it is targeted, making it easier for the enemy jet to counter with its RWS, when you fire and guide the Missile with the jets radar or helmet or IRST helping for example, the Missile doesn't give off radiation due to not it's self targeting the enemy but other systems on enemy jet's have MWS basically able to detect anything coming for it the same thing that somewhat helps detect IR Missiles in newer systems, due to IR Missiles not giving any radiation cause no radar in it.
And yes IR Missile like the 9x and ASRAAM are both LOAL and LOBL as well.
The Eurofighter with the Captor M is still better jet then the F-22 in a real fight WVR and BVR, when the Captor E comes in properly then the Eurofighter will be untouchable.
If you read my post again and read it properly then you'll find that it makes more sense than you think.
So again I think all find what I say is more true then what you'll find.
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@KjetilBalstad
I've reworded some of it to make it easier for others to understand and read now so hope it is easier for people to know what I mean, you don't have to read it just up for anyone that is interested.
The Eurofighter is the best.
Some Example's to show why the Eurofighter is king, few years reading reports and papers and speaking with pilots themselves on the matter, and all can be found online Paper's and Reports open to read.
The Specs of the Eurofighter vs F-22 for example and some others to compare.
Speed /
Eurofighter - 1550 mph - Mach 2.0 TMS.
F-22 - 1495 mph - Mach 1.95 TMS.
Rafale - 1381 mph - Mach 1.8 TMS.
F-16 - 1500 mph - Mach 1.95 TMS.
F-35 - 1200 mph - Mach 1.56 TMS.
Altitude Ceiling /
Eurofighter 65,000 f.
F-22 65,000 f.
Rafale 50,000f.
F-16 50,000+f.
F-35 50,000f.
The Sustained and Instantaneous Turn Rates, reports and papers that I've read over the years, state some what different numbers to others, so I've found the mid of the numbers for a ( about number ), for example the Eurofighter some reports and papers say between 26 to 31 D/S, so about 28.5 D/S and again for the F-22 between 25 to 29.5 D/S so about 27 D/S.
But just to say that yes the F-22 uses 1D Thrust Vectoring, but the Eurofighter had the highest number, in most reports and papers, but I'll get to why Thrust Vectoring on the F-22 is not something you want to trust in, due to its quick energy bleed and loss of speed quite fast, and if it does not get in to position quickly, it's like a sitting duck.
Sustained Turn Rate /
Eurofighter - about 28.5 D/S.
F-22 - about 27 D/S.
Rafale - about 27 D/S.
F-16 - about 18 D/S.
F-35 - about 11 to 16 D/S.
Instantaneous Turn Rate /
Eurofighter - about 36.5 D/S.
F-22 - about 35 D/S.
Rafale - about 36 D/S.
F-16 - about 26 D/S.
F-35 - about 26.5 D/S.
Now focusing more on the Eurofighter vs F-22.
Engine Thrust /
Eurofighter 21,500 ibf x2.
F-22 35,000 ibf x2.
Plus the Eurofighter's EJ200 Engines are the most advanced, with a reliability rate of over 1000 hours and still performance like new.
Eurofighter is lighter and smaller so a higher Thrust to weight ratio.
The Eurofighter has better range / Combat and A to B.
The Eurofighter Has a Better Dive/Cilmb Rate with better energy hold.
G's and -G's.
Eurofighter 9+ and -3.5G's.
F-22 9+ and -3.2G's.
Most jet's can pull 9+ G's but only some can high -G's.
Hard Points /
Eurofighter 13.
F-22 8.
Gun /
Eurofighter x1 27mm with 150 rounds.
F-22 x1 20mm with 480 rounds.
Missiles BVR - WVR /
Eurofighter BVR Meteor Missile the best in the world x2 ranges 1st 150km for fast agile Targets 2nd in testing showed to go 300km for other Targets, The Biggest NEZ of 60km, Speed of Mach 4.5, more Agile then the AIM-120D, as well the Meteor uses a ramjet meaning it maintains power to the target, WVR the ASRAAM Faster then the AIM-9X and more agile between 5 to 55km, and the ASRAAM is a 6.5inch diameter vs the 5inch on the AIM-9X so about a 70% more volume rocket propellant, meaning a longer burn time.
F-22 BVR AIM-120D 1x range Maxed at 160km a NEZ of 20km, and a speed of Mach 4, WVR AIM-9X more agile under 5km, range 30+km.
And both AIM-9X and ASRAAM use a IR seeker, so heat seeking and the ASRAAM and newer 9X's able to be used as LOAL and LOBL with the ASRAAM being able to outperform the 9x in 180 over the shoulder launches, and with the ASRAAM using IR imaging to better its ability.
But no pilot will use the full range of their missile, like the 150+km on the Meteor or the 160km on the 120D due to the low chance of really hitting anything, and giving the enemy longer for the RWS's to pick it up and just do a 180 run, making the distance longer for the Missile, you'll want to fire within about 100 - 70km or even 50km, to have a higher chance for the Missile to hit and less time for the enemy to have to counter.
This is what I find funny is that people say, ( well this jet can fire from hundreds of miles away and kill it before ) NO, it's Bullshit their are the one's that don't know about Radar Worning Systems - MTT or even Defences, older 3rd gen jets with old Radar Worning System yes probably, but not 4th gen or 3rd gen with advanced or one of the most advanced RWS's ever in it.
Just to point out that the numbers on all missiles like the 120D Meteor R-77 PL-15 and so on, all have a range of what it can do with still the ability to hit a target ( effective range ), but most of the time it's in good weather conditions, so ranges will very.
Eurofighter uses the Striker 2 Helmet more advanced and able to lock on to targets and fire with out lining the jet up with the target, and has night vision built in, with out needing a different piece of equipment on the pilots head.
F-22 is outdated and old the hardware and software is not there to be able to use the Helmet to lock on and fire like the Eurofighter can, so the F-22 needs to line up to lock and fire.
Radar /
The Eurofighter uses one of the best Radars out today Captor M most powerfule in its class Plus it has a wider field of view then some electronic scan radar with a fixed plate, able to pick up the F-35 and F-22 from distance, and able to track a multi group of targets at once, plus the new Captor E Radar will and is one of the most powerfule Morden Radars for the Future.
F-22 has a good Radar picks up the Eurofighter from distance as well but even though the F-22 may see the Eurofighter at about 200km the 120D's range is 160km max and no pilot will use max range, and with the Eurofighter jamming for example in some exercise the F-22 was not able to get a lock until about 30km away from the Eurofighter, and same with F-22 and most jet's having jamming to stop the lock on's, but the F-22's radar cant handle as much as other radars can, but still can track lots of targets.
Plus the Eurofighter has many different systems around the Jet's body DASS, helping it and able to see a 360 decrease around the Jet, plus the Eurofighter's new Captor E Radar being able to fire Missiles then turn the jet more then 90 dec and still having the ability of guiding the Missiles to the target, as well as the Striker 2 gives the Eurofighter a bigger advantage in a BVR fight, but the F-22 does not have such abilitys and with just the one radar for fox 1 and fox 3's for example needs to maintain the Radar pointing at its target for guiding missiles not using LOAL or LOBL, meaning the F-22 is getting closer and closer to its target unlike the Eurofighter, and does not have IRST like the Eurofighter so the F-22 is blind in the heat seeking area, plus with the Eurofighter's IRST Pirate has a range of over 70 - 100km and able to pick up a stealth jet like the F-22 at 50+km, meaning the Eurofighter can fire a ASRAAM at the F-22, and it being a Imaging IR missile it is harder for the F-22's to pick up on, not impossible but harder to see, the F-22 does not have other systems around the body like the Eurofighter to help guide any missile after it turns beyond its radar sight, so making the F-22 again having to stay pointing at the enemy for a guided missile and with the Eurofighter have IFF DASS MIDS LDP DVI VTAS HOTAS and IRST as well as the mean radar and others the Eurofighter is just getting better and better, as well as its specs and proformas.
In War Games the Eurofighter and F-22 have both won against each other in WVR, but the Eurofighter and F-22 have not fought in BVR yet.
Design /
Eurofighter was designed for Air Dominance and does have some stealth in the design having the smallest RCS against the Rafale and Gripen, with the Wing Design on the Eurofighter it is 20% more efficient then your wing design on the F-22, The Eurofighter is a Swing-Roll as well meaning it can hold both air to air and air to ground payloads at the same time, the F-22 its one or the other.
The Eurofighter can do all the F-22 can do plus more, The Eurofighter has better specs better Missiles better Hardware and Software plus is used by the best the RAF.
Plus the F-22 is to expensive for the US to upgrade and keep maintaining, the F-22 was stop being made years ago, but the Eurofighter is still being maintained and still being updated with newer and newer Hardware and Software.
Eurofighter King.
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1st - The US didn't give the UK anything, fact the UK had the systems in place to make their own Nuclear sub, but like all things both the UK and US sheared information, the US didn't it to us.
2nd - The UK was 1st in nuclear powered subs, the UK was the first to write about nuclear powered engines, with papers on how to do such thing.
3rd - A Italian Enginner led a team of people from UK US and others to make the 1st running nuclear powered engine, not the US.
4th - The UK is one of the leading country's in Nuclear Technology, with Rolls-Royce being ahead of the US in tearms of capabilitie.
5th - The US goes for quantity where the UK goes for quality, so the UK Subs are smaller, but there more capable in more ways, more advanced for example.
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@outrider425
Kid learn some things first.
1st - The Challenger 2 has the strongest armour to date, plus its the only tank that is Undefeated in combat, unlike the Abrams that have been Destroyed many many times over.
2nd - The L30 out reaches the M256/L44 on the Abrams, meaning the Challenger 2 would be able to destroy the Abrams before the Abrams could fire back with any chance of a hit.
3rd - The Abrams is weaker then the Challenger 2 in more areas around the body on the tank, for example at the back of the turret and sides of the hull, the Challenger 2's L30 would have no problem going through the Abrams.
4th - The Systems in both tanks are good, both would see each other from around the same distance, but the Challenger 2 has a better smoke system making it harder for the Abrams to see it, unlike the Abrams just having the basic smoke grenades.
The Challenger 2 is king, the Abrams wouldn't stand a chance, and the Abrams doesn't have a hope in hell in a long range fight.
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@illusions4559
Kid you still talking shit, Stealth is not the be all and end all as you claim it to be, yes many country's have done testing for stealth, but on its own its not good, you said the F-117, just look at what happened to it, it got blown out of the sky.
Kid if you know what you were at least talking about you would know, that the F-22 and Eurofighter haven't yet done a BVR fight, the only time they tried to do one, the US pulled out cause the Eurofighter's Pirate System was able to see the F-22 from a longer range then the US expected, so the US pulled out and since refused to do a BVR against the Eurofighter since.
Fact if you know any, the Pirate System on the Eurofighter can see the F-22 from 100+km depending on the weather, Morden IRST Systems can see the heat on the Jet's wings / body due to the air friction between them, not just engines are needed to see with them.
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@illusions4559
1st - The F-117 still got shot down, by a older SAM System, and the fact that the F-117 didn't have the Defences like other jets at the time did, or even able to manoeuvre to a point to at least try to help it, just like the U-2 the US thinking nothing can get it, so they basically didn't do a lot for its defense, but a existence between the RAF and USAF, the EE Lighting vs U-2 the RAF didn't just prove that a jet could A - Catch the U-2 but also B - Could shoot it down with ease, and the EE Lighting continued passed the U-2 to a hight of around 88,000f, same with the SR-71 no Defences just speed, witch SAM Systems where getting very fast very quickly.
2nd - In a BVR fight is really the only thing that will fully show just how good both are against each other.
3rd - The 120D only has a top range of around 160km vs the Meteor's 300km. The Meteor has a hit rate higher then the 120D at a longer range, for example the Meteor vs fighter jet for a good hit rate is around 100km, vs the 120D good hit rate is around 70-80km so about a 20-30km difference, not to mention the 120D only has a NEZ of around 20km while the Meteor has a NEZ of 60km, 40km between the 2, same with speed Mach 4 for the 120D vs the Meteor's Mach 4.5, plus the 120ad is a SSR while the Meteor is a DRS with a Ram engine.
4th - The F-22 is yes a good fighter, but the facts are facts, the Eurofighter has a higher win rate over the F-22, making the Eurofighter the better fighter.
5th - The point of the 2 fighting are one in the same, both need to train of the other.
6th - The fact I say Kid is to those that talk BS in a subject they don't know that much about, then argue when someone tries to help them, so I call them "Kid".
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@tristinjudd2595
The point being is that the US can't afford all F-22's in full ready state, more then 50% are in long term storage, then take out the ones that have crashed and are needing years of work to fix, then take out the ones that have crashed and destroyed, the US only has about 75 to 80 left, not the 185 most people think they do, plus the US can't afford to use all the ones in storage anyway if WW3 breaks out they'll have what 20 to 30% of them out to run so what about 110 to 130 F-22's in the sky's, less then most other jet's, and remember it takes 1 bullet to take out a jet, and how many 3th gen MIG-21's are still flying yes old and more outdated then the F-22, but F-22 only holds 4 to 8 missiles depending on the Missile and air to air have a bad hit rate at distance as well as the F-22 only having a main radar APG-77 and has to be facing the target for a lock lock and fire and must stay facing the enemy until pit ball for example getting closer and closer to the Enemy, and not all 120 F-22's are going to be all working and flying at the same time, as well as if they fly at all against the enemy in a real fight.
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@tristinjudd2595
Kid haha you read wiki did you.
1st The F-15's record is shit yes 104 kills that most came from other country's not the US, and that about 99 of those kills where against older outdated 3rd gen jets like MIG-21's and 25's, the only 4th gen kills its got is 4 to 5 MIG-29's that where flown by very bad trained pilots, most if not all people in the Air force as well as most people that know those jet's, know that MIG-29's are more then capable of Destroying F-15's, if Russians or another country was flying the MIG-29's the F-15's wouldn't have a clean record.
2nd The RAF are Better trained then the USAF and US Navy, the British help train the US in a lot of areas, for example the RAF have won time and time again against the top Top Gun pilots of the US.
3rd The F-22 is old and outdated and stealth does not work for a fighter jet, the F-22 has never seen combat just bombing runs, it's never done the thing it was designed to do, the F-15 is just old yes some are up to date but most are still using older hardware and software, Russian Jet's like the SU-35 SU-30 SU-27 are more then capable of killing any US jet F-15 F-16 F/A-18 even the SU-57 is more Advanced and better performance then the F-22, and the F-35 is just a expensive Bomber that's it.
4th The Best jets in the world are European and Russian, like the Eurofighter Rafale Gripin SU-35, most if not all US jet's where and or using British German Italian or Russian - Designs - Part - Hardware - Software, not one US jet is all American even the F-22 uses British Designs and Hardware in it, the F-35 is a UK US designd and built jet from the start, plus the F-16 was designed by a French man.
5th The US only has numbers and Russia actually has more jets in all then the US, so the US doesn't even have numbers over Russia.
Kid stop reading Wikipedia and read real reports and papers.
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The Eurofighter is the best.
Some Example's to show why the Eurofighter is king, few years reading reports and papers and speaking with pilots themselves on the matter, and all can be found online Paper's and Reports open to read.
The Specs of the Eurofighter vs F-22 for example and some others to compare.
Speed /
Eurofighter - 1550 mph - Mach 2.0 TMS.
F-22 - 1495 mph - Mach 1.95 TMS.
Rafale - 1381 mph - Mach 1.8 TMS.
F-16 - 1500 mph - Mach 1.95 TMS.
F-35 - 1200 mph - Mach 1.56 TMS.
Altitude Ceiling /
Eurofighter 65,000 f.
F-22 65,000 f.
Rafale 50,000f.
F-16 50,000+f.
F-35 50,000f.
The Sustained and Instantaneous Turn Rates, reports and papers that I've read over the years, state some what different numbers to others, so I've found the mid of the numbers for a ( about number ), for example the Eurofighter some reports and papers say between 26 to 31 D/S, so about 28.5 D/S and again for the F-22 between 25 to 29.5 D/S so about 27 D/S.
But just to say that yes the F-22 uses 1D Thrust Vectoring, but the Eurofighter had the highest number, in most reports and papers, but I'll get to why Thrust Vectoring on the F-22 is not something you want to trust in, due to its quick energy bleed and loss of speed quite fast, and if it does not get in to position quickly, it's like a sitting duck.
Sustained Turn Rate /
Eurofighter - about 28.5 D/S.
F-22 - about 27 D/S.
Rafale - about 27 D/S.
F-16 - about 18 D/S.
F-35 - about 11 to 16 D/S.
Instantaneous Turn Rate /
Eurofighter - about 36.5 D/S.
F-22 - about 35 D/S.
Rafale - about 36 D/S.
F-16 - about 26 D/S.
F-35 - about 26.5 D/S.
Now focusing more on the Eurofighter vs F-22.
Engine Thrust /
Eurofighter 21,500 ibf x2.
F-22 35,000 ibf x2.
Plus the Eurofighter's EJ200 Engines are the most advanced, with a reliability rate of over 1000 hours and still performance like new.
Eurofighter is lighter and smaller so a higher Thrust to weight ratio.
The Eurofighter has better range / Combat and A to B.
The Eurofighter Has a Better Dive/Cilmb Rate with better energy hold.
G's and -G's.
Eurofighter 9+ and -3.5G's.
F-22 9+ and -3.2G's.
Most jet's can pull 9+ G's but only some can high -G's.
Hard Points /
Eurofighter 13.
F-22 8.
Gun /
Eurofighter x1 27mm with 150 rounds.
F-22 x1 20mm with 480 rounds.
Missiles BVR - WVR /
Eurofighter BVR Meteor Missile the best in the world x2 ranges 1st 150km for fast agile Targets 2nd in testing showed to go 300km for other Targets, The Biggest NEZ of 60km, Speed of Mach 4.5, more Agile then the AIM-120D, as well the Meteor uses a ramjet meaning it maintains power to the target, WVR the ASRAAM Faster then the AIM-9X and more agile between 5 to 55km, and the ASRAAM is a 6.5inch diameter vs the 5inch on the AIM-9X so about a 70% more volume rocket propellant, meaning a longer burn time.
F-22 BVR AIM-120D 1x range Maxed at 160km a NEZ of 20km, and a speed of Mach 4, WVR AIM-9X more agile under 5km, range 30+km.
And both AIM-9X and ASRAAM use a IR seeker, so heat seeking and the ASRAAM and newer 9X's able to be used as LOAL and LOBL with the ASRAAM being able to outperform the 9x in 180 over the shoulder launches, and with the ASRAAM using IR imaging to better its ability.
But no pilot will use the full range of their missile, like the 150+km on the Meteor or the 160km on the 120D due to the low chance of really hitting anything, and giving the enemy longer for the RWS's to pick it up and just do a 180 run, making the distance longer for the Missile, you'll want to fire within about 100 - 70km or even 50km, to have a higher chance for the Missile to hit and less time for the enemy to have to counter.
This is what I find funny is that people say, ( well this jet can fire from hundreds of miles away and kill it before ) NO, it's Bullshit their are the one's that don't know fuck about RWS's - MTT or even Defences, older 3rd gen jets with old as shit RWS's yes probably, but not 4th gen or 3rd gen with advanced or one of the most advanced RWS's ever in it.
Just to point out that the numbers on all missiles like the 120D Meteor R-77 PL-15 and so on, all have a range of what it can do with still the ability to hit a target ( effective range ), but most of the time it's in good weather conditions, so ranges will very.
Eurofighter uses the Striker 2 Helmet more advanced and able to lock on to targets and fire with out lining the jet up with the target, and has night vision built in, with out needing a different piece of equipment on the pilots head.
F-22 is outdated and old the hardware and software is not there to be able to use the Helmet to lock on and fire like the Eurofighter can, so the F-22 needs to line up to lock and fire.
Radar /
The Eurofighter uses one of the best Radars out today Captor M most powerfule in its class Plus it has a wider field of view then some electronic scan radar with a fixed plate, able to pick up the F-35 and F-22 from distance, and able to track a multi group of targets at once, plus the new Captor E Radar will and is one of the most powerfule Morden Radars for the Future.
F-22 has a good Radar picks up the Eurofighter from distance as well but even though the F-22 may see the Eurofighter at about 200km the 120D's range is 160km max and no pilot will use max range, and with the Eurofighter jamming for example in some exercise the F-22 was not able to get a lock until about 30km away from the Eurofighter, and same with F-22 and most jet's having jamming to stop the lock on's, but the F-22's radar cant handle as much as other radars can, but still can track lots of targets.
Plus the Eurofighter has many different radars and systems around the Jet's body, helping it in RWS's and able to see a 360 decrease around the Jet, plus the Eurofighter's new Captor E Radar being able to fire Missiles then turn the jet more then 90 dec and still having the ability of guiding the Missiles to the target, as well as the Striker 2 gives the Eurofighter a bigger advantage in a BVR fight, but the F-22 does not have such abilitys and with just the one radar for fox 1 and fox 3's for example needs to maintain the Radar pointing at its target, meaning the F-22 is getting closer and closer to its target, and does not have IRST like the Eurofighter so the F-22 is blind in the heat seeking area, plus with the Eurofighter's IRST Pirate has a range of over 70 - 100km and able to pick up a stealth jet like the F-22 at 50+km, meaning the Eurofighter can fire a ASRAAM at the F-22, and it being a Imaging IR missile it is harder for the F-22's RWS to pick up on, not impossible but harder to see, the F-22 does not have other systems around the body to help guide any missile after it turns beyond its radar sight, so making the F-22 again having to stay pointing at the enemy getting closer and closer to it, and with the Eurofighter have IFF DASS MIDS LDP DVI VTAS HOTAS and IRST as well as the mean radar and others the Eurofighter is just getting better and better, as well as its specs and proformas.
In War Games the Eurofighter and F-22 have both won against each other in WVR, but the Eurofighter and F-22 have not fought in BVR yet.
Design /
Eurofighter was designed for Air Dominance and does have some stealth in the design having the smallest RCS against the Rafale and Gripen, with the Wing Design on the Eurofighter it is 20% more efficient then your wing design on the F-22, The Eurofighter is a Swing-Roll as well meaning it can hold both air to air and air to ground payloads at the same time, the F-22 its one or the other.
The Eurofighter can do all the F-22 can do plus more, The Eurofighter has better specs better Missiles better Hardware and Software plus is used by the best the RAF.
Plus the F-22 is to expensive for the US to upgrade and keep maintaining, the F-22 was stop being made years ago, but the Eurofighter is still being maintained and still being updated with newer and newer Hardware and Software.
Eurofighter King.
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