Comments by "StuffandThings" (@StuffandThings_) on "Tropical Places That Can Freeze | Odd Geography" video.

  1. One of the interesting questions I've tried to answer is the location of the highest latitude locations which have never frozen (in both hemispheres). For the northern, I'm almost certain that the answer is either Menton (the Wikipedia climate data shows it just barely has but I strongly suspect that the most protected and coastal microclimates have not, due to some circumstantial evidence of well established equatorial plants growing in the gardens there) and if not that then definitely the Azores which haven't even gotten close even for the northernmost ones. For the southern, this is a lot harder, Mallacoota is the best candidate I've found yet that for sure never freezes, but I strongly suspect the more protected parts of the Corner Inlet and/or some islands present in the inlet do not freeze either (once again the data for a few locations here shows they just baaarely froze but these are along some more exposed sites). Cape Grim and King Island are other good candidates. Amazingly, the subpolar Auckland Islands have shockingly mild record minimum temps, and even support a population of tree ferns at a whopping 50 degrees south. Perhaps some ultra protected inlet could have never recorded a freeze? Either way, the temperate areas that don't freeze are just as interesting as the tropical ones that do. Another fun one is coastal Norway, which while it definitely does freeze also has ridiculously mild winter temps, Tromsø has a higher record min temperature than Tallahassee and some places in the Lofoten archipelago like Vågan and Røst barely ever even graze past -10 C despite being above the arctic circle. edit: Ile Amsterdam in the Indian Ocean is another good candidate, roughly the same latitude as Mallacoota and has never frozen. Its also interesting because the temperature range is ridiculously small on it, under 25 C between the record min and max temps, probably the most oceanic climate on Earth. Additionally, its quite nearby to Kerguelen, an archipelago which basically acts as a mini Antarctica but at an unusually low latitude, complete with a tidewater glacier, barren rocks, and a tundra climate. edit 2: Bruny Island in Tasmania looks like another really good candidate, once again barely ever froze and is very far south.
    198
  2. A particularly fascinating case in my opinion is eastern Australia. Mackay has recorded a freeze (just barely), while Mallacoota has not, despite Mackay being a borderline tropical climate and Mallacoota being solidly temperate, and the latter being a whopping 16 degrees of latitude further south. Both are along the eastern coastline, at sea level. The hardiness map of Australia is exceedingly weird, lots of little pockets of, well... not quite micro climates, but definitely weird local variations dotted all over the place.
    35
  3.  @alunjones3860  A lot of these temp records go pretty far back into the 20th century or even before, but yes this does make it more difficult. Of course if you go far back enough you end up at the last glacial maximum where of course these places would freeze, or even back to the little ice age where if they are borderline never freeze climates they might have frozen then too. So there needs to be some sort of reasonable limit on the timescale, some people might set this at different times but I'd imagine as long as its long enough to capture at least a handful of serious, record breaking cold waves its reliable enough for me. Definitely worth going for the climates that haven't even remotely frozen though if you really want to hedge your bets and/or capture a longer timescale with more global variation, but this doesn't really matter if you're just looking for a place you can grow cool plants and experience comfy winters at a high latitude.
    8
  4. Its also something you have to be very wary about when researching for zone pushing, since the same climate zone in the east coast is very much so not equivalent to that of the west. Northern Florida is technically in the same hardiness zone as much of Washington state, but the cold events there tend to be brief and followed by warmer weather which is much easier for plants to get through than the days to weeks of minimum temps you get on the west coast. Plants that can easily handle east coast 7a often struggle even in 8b winters in the west, so east coast growers' reports of cold hardiness often don't work out west.
    4
  5. Ayy didn't expect to see you here
    3
  6.  @casualearth-dandavis  Weirdly, Trachycarpus palms actually do better with west coast style winters. There are a handful of plants that do, typically ones that don't experience proper dormancy without preceding cold temps and thus get zapped in east coast cold spells (Actinida arguta is a great example of this, can handle down to like zone 4 but suffers with spring cold snaps on the east coast). So it depends, there are palms that can meaningfully thrive all the way up to B.C. but its definitely a different array of species, I doubt Sabal would do well.
    3
  7.  @kalyxo_tb  The issue with Menton is that I think the location of its climate station might not be ideal. While the climate data is relatively short, it does capture the disastrous and record breaking 2012 European Cold Wave. So, I still would put it in the running. The southern hemisphere regions I listed have long climate records (which is actually kind of weird if you think about it) so I think should be fairly reliable, I wouldn't be so quick to proclaim Ile Amsterdam the winner though it probably is the southernmost location to never even approach freezing. Shelter Cove is a neat one, I've looked for some particularly mild locales on the west coast of North America and this is definitely quite the fun anomaly. Must have some truly awful winter storms though so hardly a subtropical paradise. I'm pretty sure San Francisco is as far north as you can get for never freezing though in North America. Another fun one is Victoria B.C. which while it does freeze, is in Zone 9 and amazingly has had a couple winters with no recorded freezes. Some people even manage citrus up there.
    3
  8.  @marcodipietro8835  Oh yes of course, the Gulf Stream is responsible for a lot of mild northerly climates (Azores included) however one of the interesting things about it is the path that it takes. There are plenty of warm water currents around the world, the Gulf Stream isn't even the most powerful (that would go to the Aghulas), however quite unusually it skirts along the western side of Europe, not the east like pretty much every other warm water current. As explained in an older video on this channel, east coasts tend to get some pretty nasty cold snaps due to continental cold fronts moving eastwards, while west coasts get nice oceanic weather fronts. So combining the effects of a warm water current with the effects of a west coast climate is really the key here, and what makes the climates of western Europe so unique compared to pretty much every other warm current influenced climate. Also part of the reason that Tallahassee beats Tromsø despite both being in proximity to the Gulf Stream and Tallahassee being way further south.
    3
  9.  @casualearth-dandavis  That sounds like it might be Chamaerops humilis, another hardy palm species native to southern Europe which is going feral further north due to warming. IIRC they're expanding to Switzerland's sheltered warm southern valleys.
    1