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  455. Interesting comments in this thread. Of course China is bullying Australia, a couple of reasons and some misunderstanding of what free trade is. The agreements in place only cover goods for free enterprise in general terms China doesn't have any right to demand public infrastructure is open to Chinese goods and doesn't have any right to demand Australia sell assets to it. Australia can't whinge and complain if Tianamen square is being refurbished and an Australian contractor offers stone tiles at a great price so why should Australia not choose who supplies 5g infrastructure. About 20 years ago Royal Dutch Shell wanted to buyout Woodside Australia's largest oil producer and we said no, the Europeans didn't complain but if it is China they whinge and complain and won't talk to us anymore. The trade war is soft at the moment actually, Australia supplies 53% of the traded iron ore in the world and China buys 69% of the traded iron ore, if trade war was to go hot Australia 53% plus Brazil 18% could cripple China by cutting off supply. Not suggesting we do it and China is probably now paying more for metallurgical coal than it's competitors South Korea and Japan, that's a self inflicted wound. China like the US hates to be in a trade deficit with another country, Australia is the biggest trade deficit for China and visa versa which makes China think bullying has a strategic advantage with us. I don't think it does and now companies will be cautious with dealing with China meaning higher prices than reliable buyers like South Korea, Japan and even Vietnam now. Yes China is causing some pain to Australia but it's not all out trade war yet, it's pot shots from a national perspective.
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  739.  @lisag1153  Population density with 0 restrictions means nothing, Mississippi is one of the least densely populated states in the US as in urbanisation rate and the worst death toll per capita from covid 19 of any wealthy jurisdiction on the planet. If Florida was a country and you ignore other US states it would be the worst wealthy country on the planet. As you would be aware Florida is subtropical which has its advantage of not having major spikes in transmission and you would also be aware by the statistics or from DeSantis himself that cases actually have a small spike in summer, come summer Florida will likely overtake New York in deaths per Capita and it's way ahead of Texas and California already. As far as Floridian being a bit older than average, so what , deaths per million in Japan, South Korea and Singapore with as old or older populations are at about 200 per million compared to 3,300 per million for Florida. If that's not failure I don't know what is. Wealthy retirees which bring the age up in Florida are very highly vaccinated also , educated rich people get vaccinated that's just how it is. It's how well a jurisdiction gets the vaccine hesitant vaccinated that counts and DeSantis and his hand picked propaganda agent for Surgeon General have actually done nothing to encourage and to some extent discourage such people to get vaccinated. Anyway I guess you can cling to well at least Mississippi and a few other mostly Republican states will always look worse when compared to Florida.
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  788.  @michaelowens7792  With regard to the US vaccine scheme it is good. A vaccine company directly especially in the context of US liability laws which are probably the most generous on the planet a company will just fight forever. It is known that even the best vaccine on the planet might kill for arguments sake 1 in 1,000,000 people. So a vaccine that could save for arguments sake 10,000 lives and one person dies is good to use and as the scheme itself says was set up so people using a vaccine know they have an easier recourse than taking on a multinational corporation directly yourself at your cost. As the scheme states if you disagree with the compensation you don't fight the government you take on the company direct, but you must go through the scheme process first. So you lose nothing it doesn't remove any rights you have. As far as are any compensation payouts appropriate or not it would seem they are because otherwise I would expect to see news to the contrary if it wasn't the case. The scheme also helps people in other countries because it would set precedence. Unless people are complaining of the 75c price tag I can't see what the issue could be. If a company acted negligently or forged trial results for arguments sake they are still liable, this is for the rare cases of serious adverse reactions including death which are unavoidable. Most of what I stated is on their website. The rumour as stated by the original commenter that it's impossible for a company to be held directly liable is incorrect.
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  798. Skimming through this thread I noticed some still don't understand what capitalism is. For the best guide look at the economic freedom index by Heritage Foundation. You will see the US isn't particularly high which actually makes sense. The US model of limited socialism and government borrowing until it eventually blows up is to support corporations with direct subsidies and protectionism, never let business fail. Trump even talked of bringing back dead end factory jobs through protectionism and subsidies. Compare to my country Australia , virtually no agricultural subsidies and very limited protectionism for manufacturing. Now compare US versus Australia regarding healthcare and other welfare, the US spends more as a proportion of GDP on publically funded non universal healthcare than Australia does on universal healthcare, life expectancy the obvious key measure is almost 5 years greater in Australia than the US. A part of this is governments in the US paying "free market" rates when a free market can't exist, in other words to support the corporations running hospitals, if you have a heart attack and want urgent care it's the closest one there is not a choice , so the hospital can just rip off the government. Overall direct welfare payments for the needy in the US seem to be smaller than Australia but it has nothing to do with the size of the government budget, money is going elsewhere in the case of the US. Anyway my main point is don't blame capitalism when you actually mean socialism for corporations and lack of social welfare spending on humans. When you look at China it's similar to the US in this respect actually, they are however improving slowly overall.
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  917. Without complimentary efforts closing the borders would have achieved nothing. The virus was already in all major countries on the planet at the time of the Wuhan lockdown. The countries who succeeded all had detected more cases than USA on February 20, that's the approximate crossover date when the US started to overtake other countries case numbers. Australia, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and Thailand officially had the largest case loads with 15 or more cases and the US only 15 cases. There is a direct correlation with a small number of countries carrying out all required measures and other countries carrying out one measure partially, eg UK and US still haven't had a lock down by successful country standards to this day with borders still open and no supervised quarantine. It only takes one case, about 15,000 cases in Australia came from a single quarantine breach in Victoria and they know this from dna testing the strain. The main failure was not the quarantine breach because it's happened in Queensland , New South Wales and New Zealand also, the failure was to detect the breach contact tracing and acting very quickly. So quarantine at the border would be useless without proper lockdowns and internal travel restrictions with a massive contact tracing and testing effort by the end of February. Some countries were not particularly aggressive with all these measures officially but if you look at compliance levels of voluntary measures you will find they are much higher in some non Western countries so not as much enforcement required.
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  1022.  @Morning404  You make a good point but it goes much deeper than that, every 5 EYES country all knew the risks as of the end of January, what Trump said to Bob Woodward on tape on 6 Feb I think it was, was certainly known by the rest of us and what the potential risk was. This doesn't necessarily mean Johnson is to blame if the information wasn't passed on by the public servants reviewing such information but it's very unlikely that occured. Now look at the results , while noting Australia and NZ already take quarantine issues more seriously, Australia and NZ virtually virus free ( unfortunately one Australian state doesn't seem able to get to 0 but they haven't gone above 10 cases a day for a long time and have excellent contact tracing), Canada about average by work standards, US and UK down the bottom somewhere and would rank in the top 10 worst responses for a country. It doesn't change anything now and one can only hope the " freedom to infect" and voluntary quarantine and isolation are seen for what they are which is absolute failures. Australia is criticised for imprisoning some serious offenders regarding health orders which if not stopped means entire populations going through on again off again house arrest. In fact the most common call for such offenders was lock them up for maximum sentence applicable, because people here really don't like the actions of others to potentially shut their business down and put them under house arrest. It's like we are in alternate worlds.
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  1073. Reading these comments, there is some truth to both "Western" as a political term means the Americas and Europe but sometimes means wealthy members in those areas and can apply to Australia and New Zealand but not necessarily depends on ones own definition. What has stood out and I have never seen it spoken is the Western Pacific region countries of WHO have cooperated and acted in unison with the number one requirement of containment and that is 14 days mandatory enforced (usually hotel) quarantine for all arrivals, the worst performing country in our WHO region is the Philippines however it would be a stand out success in European WHO region or PAHO Pan-American Health Organization region. Both those regions have come very close to acting in unison with a policy of open borders and 10 days voluntary quarantine. People who blame the WHO should blame their own country and or neighbouring countries the peak body of WHO makes no decisions and to blame them is silly. The Western Pacific region includes China all the way to New Zealand with ASEAN split between 2 WHO regions. We are probably the most diverse WHO region on the planet , having still largely tribal lifestyles in Papua New Guinea and some of the smaller Pacific Island nations to Japan and China, different political systems, different cultures, but for this purpose we worked well together even if due to politics we won't acknowledge it. On general quarantine issues many of the countries especially Japan, Australia and New Zealand along with smaller Pacific nations are very strict to start with which I do believe helped because the culture already in existence.
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  1221. Strange comments in this thread, let's take USA and Germany, life expectancy rankings of 40th and 20th in the world respectively (Wikipedia based on WHO). Strangely enough the countries in the top 10 for life expectancy have high to very high vaccination rates for Covid 19. If we specifically then look at the region of WHO those countries are found in we get even more stark data, the wealthy countries in the Western Pacific WHO region are Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand. We all over 75% double dosed and being from Australia I can say we haven't even started the 5 to 11 age group. Deaths of all these countries from covid 19 up to now is around 10% of that in Germany on a per capita basis. What did our region do different? Well our scientists and doctors etc. decided that genuine quarantine for travel was a good idea, also our vaccine rollouts were all slow to start and not done in as rushed a manner in most cases which gives higher public confidence. Our life expectancies are all in the top 10 countries except New Zealand in the mid teens. Maybe just maybe listening to scientists and doctors is a good idea. The social scientists won the day in the European WHO region and PAHO Pan-American Health Organization region by elimination of quarantine because it would cause too much damage to society apparently. Could also be argued it was populist politicians who refuse to tell the truth, voluntary shortened quarantine (as in not quarantine) was never going to work.
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  1265.  @isorokuyamamoto8423  Australian iron ore exports represent over 50% of the internationally traded iron ore and China imports around 70% of the internationally traded iron ore so for all intensive purposes Australia is the only seller. Australia has no intention to retaliate , if it did however it would have no effect on the general economy as in probably not even a single job lost, our mines are highly efficient and quite automated, for example one person will operate 6 dump trucks from a computer in Perth. The Chinese economy however would be devastated in the short term, the only real driver of growth is the command economy construction with an estimated 50,000,000 vacant apartments, China also exports around 7% of it's steel production. Everyone knows that the good times from iron ore will end sometime and if China changed to a free market economy tomorrow they would suffer a massive collapse and iron ore requirements would plummet. Interesting a person with a Japanese name is pro CPC and China. Japan and South Korea and others in our region could easily replace the Chinese exports of steel, I think that wouldn't be a problem, obviously the US due to it's location and the location of steel mills wouldn't make sense. So in summary Australia has no intention to retaliate as of now and if we did in a direct sense it would do little harm to us, it would just be bringing forward the inevitable which is eventually China will stop putting up ghost buildings and cities. Australian government debt is only about 45% so pretty low by international standards and the government although it certainly loves the revenue generated from iron ore can and eventually will have to survive without the current windfall brought on by China's policies.
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  1322.  @CarolReidCA  Part of your comment is correct but most of it isn't. If China had known earlier they would have locked down Wuhan earlier so clearly they didn't know until January 22 when over the next day they did a complete lockdown including all flights to anywhere which remained in place until April 14 . The flights coming out of Wuhan were evacuation flights requested by other governments which for obvious reasons couldn't be denied. It's not either possible or the responsibility of China to do anything with those people once they are in another country. All the evidence I have seen indicates less than 1,000 cases ever got out of China prior to January 23 and more likely around 100. I have not heard of a single confirmed case going from any other Chinese city to outside China so even if it did occur the number would be minnescule. But the number is completely irrelevant if countries chose to do nothing other than watch the spread , like the US did and no enforced quarantine to this day. Biden talks about doing it but I don't think it has been done yet and if it's not in a hotel it can't work anyway, even with hotels breaches will occur occasionally. Partial lockdown as practiced by every US state is largely pointless because as you pointed out no travel restrictions. I take it one step further the US actually has a spreading mechanism built into policy because if you lock down one state or county with high infections people just go to the place with low infections that are not locked down. Australian hotel quarantine is almost exclusively for returning citizens so can't avoid that one.
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  1432. Looking from Australia, Canada has proven proof of concept however never takes that last step to elimination. In other words you have the technical capability but seems not the will. I was extremely impressed when Canada went from about 5,000 cases a day to around 400 cases a day around 6 months ago when Melbourne Victoria Australia had 500 cases per day. I thought Canada had done it they are going to eliminate it and Victoria was stuffed . The problem is Canada wants to fly close to the sun and wonders why it keeps getting burnt. The quarantine measures are relaxed or using the true definition which is " prevent "or "stop" diseases or pests from getting into an area , Canada isn't doing this so national border measures are actually slow the spread mitigation measures. Quarantine in the same house as your family is living isn't quarantine and isn't in any way enforceable, I can't imagine in the majority of cases a husband or wife returning after 3 months apart and they never touch or great each other closely , of course they will and likely they will end up in the same bed. The 3 days at a hotel is really just getting one negative test, according to governments in Australia it can take up to about 5 days after infection for a pcr test to be able to detect the infection, so incubation period sort of. The highest risk of catching it is actually the trip the airports and plane and any other stops on the trip, so that test on day one it appears will miss all the most likely cases. Of course I wish your country well but am sceptical because as stated measures are in most cases only 90% when you need 100% to stop new variants entering for example. Borders both national and provincial are the most important thing. Half of all breeches in quarantine in Australia have been the UK variant, whatever province that is in travel should be stopped to other provinces without proper hotel quarantine because it's virtually impossible to stop it's spread. Best of luck and take care personally.
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  2015.  @jharris1397  Thanks for quarantine versus isolation terminology that is being used in your country. The example I gave of a person travelling to England from the US is the actual policy, but interchange Paris France with New York is probably a better example because it's only a drive away. The UK and US have what can be considered weak voluntary guidelines, because a £1,000 penalty even if you break the extremely relaxed procedures is nothing really. How many people are being fined anyway? I can tell you from Australian experience about 20% will break the rules until enforcement happens unless people in the UK are far more compliant. Between 8 June and 27 July just 10 fines issued, I found an article. I will give an example in my state a person threw a party breaking the rules at the time in April, they were issued with a $1,400 AUD fine. They thought they were smart so they did it again the next night. Police issued the with a summons to appear before court for a more serious penalty. They got 2 months gaol. The UK as US have no real intention of stopping the spread. If you are going to only do mitigation as in try to stop hospitals overflowing probably the continuous lockdown lite restrictions of Sweden is better and seems a bit more honest with the population. The restrictions in all states of Australia except Victoria are the same or less than Sweden's restrictions currently excluding travel restrictions. On Sweden the per capita death rate is just about to be overtaken by the US because Sweden seems to be having only about a death a day at the moment. The US population is a lot fatter though with an apparent adult obesity rate of 36% versus Sweden 20% so more deaths can be expected.
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  2046.  @mildredobrien517  The why can be many reasons, I know I don't want to wear a mask or cloth mask but I will if the government requires it. I am in Queensland Australia and we have had a total of 225 cases of close contact or community transmission officially in a population of about 5 million. I live in a small apartment and did get very crook in March I think and some backpackers from Europe were about 6 metres away on the balcony while I was on mine, I think I did get the virus but could have been another virus no certain way to know but only tested when it was open to anyone who wants a test and all symptoms gone by then and was negative. I did wear a mask when shopping when I was sick and never touched a product unless I am going to buy it because I knew I was sick with something. One aspect based on many comments I see is that people who haven't seen it personally seem to believe it won't affect them, especially people from the US and of course the president probably contributed to this. Also if you are in a rural area it can seem like it's somewhere else, however it can spread through a small town no problems but it will be slower. People who get it but not bad symptoms also might never tell anyone because they feel stupid for not listening. In Australia the people that have taken it the most seriously are remote indigenous communities so they wanted to be cut off from all but essential government workers from the outside and have been. Their fear is reasonable they might be 500 km from the nearest hospital and if things got out of control generally they would be extremely vulnerable. Of course they aren't wearing masks but about how seriously people take it. I live in the city I am 10 minutes drive to 3 different major public hospitals, if I was 500 km away I know for a heart attack or something probably I am a gonner because even the flying doctor will be an hour or so minimum if an airstrip is close. So people's perception of their own vulnerability would play a big part in behaviour I think.
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  2136.  @Unitedflyier  Australia has 3 advantages and being an island isn't one of them, as far as people in my region being more compliant , other than Japan and China it's not really the case. Japan recently resorted to enforcement in the end rather than just require people to do things and if they don't up to them, so even Japan realised enforcement is required. The 3 real advantages are being somewhat ready, we found more cases in the first month as in towards the end of February than any European country, Italy was totally asleep only found a case on February 21, secondly regional culture regarding quarantine in general, we normally have the highest quarantine standards in the world especially Australia, New Zealand and Japan with South Korea and China not far behind I think, this also most likely translated to the entire West Pacific WHO region countries adopting 14 days enforced quarantine, the other advantage is our own internal political leadership. I saw how some Eastern European countries actually compared to us then they opened the borders and thousands dead, if I was one of those nations I would at least threaten to leave the EU because they pressured countries successfully to open borders and kill their own citizens, no different to Donald Trump. If you followed what happened in Victoria then you would know luck doesn't play much of a part, the hardest lockdown outside of China other than maybe Italy in the beginning, however Italy just reopened and decided not to finish the job, Victoria decided to finish the job , the only place to do so at the time with cases reaching about 500 per day, outside of Wuhan. Victoria had more cases than Canada at the time and Canada has the exact same advantages as Australia, they shut the US border so what's their excuse. The only genuine excuse is my government failed to act effectively for any rich country. If EU is a country because it acts like one then that government. If you want to include WHO well your regional office is run by countries in your region. PAHO ( Pan American Health Organization) and European region WHO countries have almost universally performed bad and followed the open borders, 10 days voluntary quarantine protecols or done nothing.
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  2174.  @mjor6406  What are you talking about, I did a quick search , in 2018 5% of the healthcare budget went to research so the remainder is still more than Australia per Capita. Australia has 125,000,000 vaccine doses on order so if they all work out then approximately 80,000,000 doses will be donated, those US companies getting money from everywhere. We are producing 50 million doses of the AZ vaccine but it's recommended only for 40 plus age group, younger to get Pfizer but can request AZ, a bit messy actually however many doses of the AZ are already being exported. Canada will export (not receive ) most of it's ordered doses also and donate them . The US was useless when it counted , all that skill but completely disfunctional, 500 covid 19 tests by the end of February 2020 which compares to 100,000 in South Korea and in second place on a per capita basis Australia with 10,000 tests. The population of the US is 13 times that of Australia so of course no other country comes close in gross numbers regarding research achievements. You might however have heard of something called Wi Fi or Cochlear ear implants or discoveries regarding stomach ulcers or the cervical cancer vaccine first developed in Australia or go way back you might have heard of penicillin developed jointly in Australia and England. We actually did develop 2 covid 19 vaccines, one of which up to phase 2 looked good however it gave false positives to HIV tests so it was decided not to continue due to time it would take to start again using a different protein that would remove that problem. CSL might not be the biggest pharmaceutical and blood products company in the world however they have a market cap of $133 billion AUD so not too bad. I don't know about Canada but Australia at least, punches at a similar level for our size to the US.
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  2294. There's a problem with your assertion, suicide rates have gone down in both Australia and the US , up to October 31 last year the ABS specifically looked at NSW and VIC and suspected suicides being of course the states that actually had long term lockdowns and suicides were down. What has occurred is more attention has been brought on the issue. Previously I looked at suicides by state and think it was 2019 data my state QLD was at 17 per 100,000 and Victoria was at about 10 per 100,000. The real question is why is QLD so high, I didn't try to find out the age groups but clearly QLD has more problems. Victoria quite possibly has less problems because people like Pat McGorry, Jeff Kennet and Vic governments since. There may well be demographic factors regarding rural and remote communities in QLD but whatever the case the state that got the most attention probably has the smallest problem and people never looked at the rates , just the change in rates which went against their narrative anyway. So I would argue it's not so much about a real effect but the effect of people looking and governments being concerned drawing attention to the matter and ironically not looking where the problem already exists. In Australia for 2020 homicides went down slightly from the previous year by about 5%. Suicides and homicides should be looked at together, in the US homicides have shot up from a very high rate to start with. I would suggest happy people usually don't tend to kill others and it's a cultural thing with gangs and even those mass school shootings in the US.
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  2343.  @imathumb  The sad thing is when cases were about 500 per day in Victoria, I was thinking they might be doomed, I don't know if you followed things much but slow action and contact tracing was the reason not the headline reason of a single quarantine breach which has occured in other states and New Zealand without it getting out of control, but Victoria came back better than any other jurisdiction outside of mainland China after reaching such case numbers and getting them to 0 . Canada at the same time was below 400 cases a day I think, I was impressed with Canada and thought they had done it but seems they relaxed. I think it's extreme to constantly put entire populations into lockdown lite indefinitely and the number of deaths people in Europe and North America accept is terrible. Of course Canada is far better than the big neighbour but that's basically comparing arguably the worst practice in the world for a high income country. What is most harmful to mental health is uncertainty in my opinion, if people know the outcome they will do there best, of course Victorians at the time would have felt terrible because every other state open with very limited restrictions and everything open and they are in hard lockdown, but conversely they can see an end and what the end of the process looks like. I am of course talking of the majority because some will always disagree but if you were to ask those same people now other than the conspiracy theorists I thing they would acknowledge having everything open including the state borders was worth it and deaths were not as bad as they would otherwise be. Best of luck and take care, at least vaccines are on there way but a few months before any real effects I think.
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  2358.  @CharlesvanDijk-ir6bl  Interesting, in Queensland it's 1.5m rule which I thought was standard throughout Australia but apparently not. With the legality of border restrictions/quarantine measures there is no argument actually about the interpretation of the constitution which actually has quarantine as one of the issues and Australia already has 20 quarantine zones give or take if you actually looked at every single agricultural quarantine area for every single plant and or fungus. In general it isn't enforced with personal use such as someone hopping on a plane and flying elsewhere in the country with a piece of fruit or a mushroom, it is however enforced very strongly on farmers etc. and they will know the rules in their industry. Quarantine zones of course can pop up in days of any outbreak with say anthrax for example an entire district will be immediately quarantined and all animals tested and destroyed if they have the bacteria. The question therefore is, is the quarantine measure reasonable and if they tried a blanket challenge against WA again I think they will lose , however if the challenge was I as a person in South East Queensland with no cases for sometime would be a high enough risk to refuse entry if I was willing to do 2 weeks quarantine because I want a holiday in Western Australia. WA can argue even with quarantine breaches have occured in VIC, NSW, QLD and WA itself and to produce perfect quarantine is a technical impossibility and any breach could lead to 100's of deaths like Victoria, the counter argument is the probability is so low and WA is being completely unreasonable, then up to the judges to decide if that's reasonable. So I think WA probably is a bit unreasonable but overall not and really who would want to be the judges that helped cause 100 deaths, they would have to be pretty much dead certain this can't occur to rule against WA. So the process will favour the state imposing the quarantine/restrictions.
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  2409.  @melmorrison1400  No I just look at places with comparable demographics to Australia and preferably comparable weather which actually doesn't seem to play a major part. Take Florida it would be somewhat comparable to my state Queensland, warm weather and not highly variable (almost everyone live near the coast). They have deaths per million approaching 2,000 and they have rolled out vaccines far quicker than us , so no reason we couldn't have had a similar or a higher death rate, we aren't genetically superior or something. I look on worldometer which seems pretty reliable and the open border countries with minimal restrictions in PAHO Pan-American Health Organization and European WHO regions mostly have deaths between about 1,500 per million and 2,500 per million. If you look at Western Pacific WHO region the deaths are less than 10% per Capita compared to those other regions, actions make a difference and at the regional WHO offices policies seem to be highly consistent between member countries especially border quarantine or no quarantine. The Delta variant every country now struggling, China, Vietnam, Australia but never struggled before. China has a reasonable vaccination rate but given the size of the population things can go very bad very quickly, the policy of testing entire city populations can't really be done anymore because have 30 cities or so with outbreaks. The good thing though is populations at least partly vaccinated except for Vietnam with a very low vaccination rate.
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  2487.  @isorokuyamamoto8423  Nothing to gain out of retaliation unless it had an effect, China will likely keep trade sanctions on Australia for a long time if not indefinitely, best to just ignore it in actions but still object verbally unless something else occured like China invading another country or being any more agressive in the South China Sea. The CPC is popular in China now in general terms because even if 600,000,000 living on $5 per day as indicated by the CPC itself last year it's about trajectory, getting $5 a day better than over 20 years ago you might starve and now your children get to go to school which was not the case previously in the poorer regions which is why much of the adult Uyghur population couldn't speak or literate in Chinese for example (ignoring other issues there). As long as China keeps that trajectory things will be ok and relatively stable. The US on the other hand although getting wealthier and actually less disparity between rich and poor than China is for the average person going backwards as they see it which makes the US unstable to an extent like we saw on January 6 and the BLM protests last year with city blocks on fire, that wouldn't be possible if there wasn't a high level of discontent and the language about beating China does verge on at China's expense rather than China will do better but we will still do better than them, in other words negative rather than positive rhetoric. If China was to go backwards and the US continues to decline socially due to government disfunction it's not good for the rest of us because they will not only take it out on each other but somewhat on other countries also and can be crossfire with trade etc.
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  2496. Jeffr I know exactly what Fauci did because I can compare it to the Australian messaging. Our messaging was we don't want people to run out and buy masks because they are needed for healthcare workers, when Australia's chief health officer was asked further details about the decision he explained that if people wear masks and become complacent about social distancing it could make things worse so this is part of the decision. We were advised if we are sick to wear a mask but otherwise not. Fauci and Australia's chief health officer had the same information. For whatever reason he did the same thing to Birx and either cut them both slack or condemn both of them, my feeling is under the circumstances they did the best they could noting Fauci and Redfield along with the rest but particularly them can be considered absolutely negligent or incompetent from the January February debacle where only 500 tests were conducted versus 10,000 for Australia and 100,000 for South Korea and on February 26 Fauci was asked why the US had so few cases [relative to Asian countries] and he said because the US had great healthcare and the contact tracing was working well. He never investigated otherwise Australia having 15 cases detected with other countries like South Korea a few more and Japan , Thailand, Malaysia all similar to Australia and the US 15 cases also. The probability of this being correct is about 0%. Obviously we all missed cases back then but you would find Australia probably detected 50% and the US 10% of cases if that noting the US population is about 15 times that of Australia. Those percentage just example nobody really knows except that Italy and US had the worst early performance.
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  2566. The talk about sugar in this thread I disagree with. The problem with concentrated high levels of sugar is highly available to the body so converted almost entirely to usable energy unlike more complex carbohydrates that are contained in a vegetable where the body must first break through the protein protecting the inner cell in the case if it's uncooked and then break that carbohydrate down to sugar. But the biggest issue is the desirability an 11 ounce or 330 ml can of cola is equal to about 450 gm or a pound of cabbage. I can tell you eating 450 gm of cabbage is a bit more effort than drinking that can of soft drink but approximately same energy content but my body will take hours most likely digesting that cabbage even though half the energy is sugar just the same as the sugar in the soft drink. My body will expend a certain amount of energy digesting the cabbage so the net energy will be lower but the soft drink sugar goes into my blood at a rapid rate within minutes of me drinking it. If one truly wants low sugar you shouldn't cook food because that creates sugars, cooked cabbage would have a higher percentage of sugars. The desirability of cola as my example is the problem along with how easy it is to consume or in other words too easy to have too much but inherently the sugar is the same as that in a fruit or vegetable. Fruit juices with 10% sugar like apple are pretty much as bad as soft drink, same high energy and just as easy to consume which people don't realise because we or at least me thought it was healthy from years of subtle brainwashing.
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  2686.  @jonaseggen2230  I have observed during this global event a lot of people don't understand that they lack empathy and want a one size fits all simple one action solution. I am Australian and have noticed some Australian people saying the most bizarre things. They think that you can just put another countries policy here because in their mind they have done better. Even you point out hang on a minute I don't want Sweden's policy because it will mean more restrictions in my state than currently exist , border restrictions are tough but necessary. Then they say it's all about mask wearing and there should be no other restrictions and nothing else needs to be done open up your border to every state and just forget about it. Queensland is my state of 5,000,000 people and have had 254 known cases of transmission inside our border. Some people consider this a failure and Sweden has done better. A sense of denial I suppose. Anyway a bit off track there , the vast majority of Queenslanders are happy with our governments job and there is a snowballs chance in hell that we will open our border to a state with an outbreak without the current mandatory 14 days government supervised quarantine. I have a suspicion though those people are from the 2 states who haven't done so well even when they say they aren't. We were a relatively hard lockdown state who wanted to open up slowly, the current problem state wasn't like that and always wanted an open border. Reminds me of the US states, put your state in lockdown then those who can or live close to a border just cross the border spreading around possibly more quickly than just doing nothing.
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  2713.  @just_chris1630  My biggest observation is so many places don't finish the job and leave one particular big hole which is border quarantine being done on an honour basis. The UK now seems like they might start enforcing it and have filled in a ridiculous hole that existed in the previous regime which was you could enter England and go straight into a household and other members of the household could continue going about their daily business. Ireland now has very similar rules to Melbourne before but keeping schools open and the entry quarantine is super relaxed and appears to be entirely voluntary referring to it as guidelines we request people follow. So they have shut down all but essential businesses but allow infected people to continue to enter, total madness not to do the job properly. For countries 5,000,000 or more Australia and New Zealand are now the leaders with China , Taiwan, Vietnam and Thailand. South Korea isn't looking too bad but Japan with about 2,000 cases a day isn't so good, it's not large compared to their population but getting compliance in any population will reduce over time I suspect making things harder and harder. There are some African countries and other countries spotted around the world doing well too but I am not following every country. Canada 2 or 3 months ago had less cases than Melbourne and I was thinking at the time Canada is going to succeed and Victoria might be doomed, very happy my concerns with Victoria turned out to be unfounded but sad to see Canada is now about 5,000 cases per day.
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  2715. You do not no the index case was in China because it hasn't been found , we know that the first major outbreak was in Wuhan that's all. Is it possible a Chinese tourist was in another country and caught it and brought it back to China. Unless you have discovered the particular strain that is almost identical from a bat in China and tested bats in neighboring countries to eliminate that it's common in more than one country you don't know. Did it probably start in China certainly but that only probably. Just like the UK strain, did it start in the UK we really have no idea , it's a country that kept it's border open and it could be the UK index case of that strain was imported. Search Hendra virus disease CDC. Hendra is a neighbouring suburb to me only 10 km away. If you find that CDC page it has a map of the likely distribution of the virus based on the carrier species of bat and also where the virus has been identified and actual outbreak cases in horses ranging from northern New South Wales to Far North Queensland. The known cases have been a across a distribution of about 2,000 km. The outbreaks usually are in rural areas, it could just be luck that human to human transmission has never been observed although from the very small known case numbers in horses and humans the mortality rate has been about 70% so maybe the person generally gets too ill to spread it. Given the range of Hendra virus it's quite possible that the precursor virus to covi sars2 that made the jump to humans if carried by a widely distributed bat could be in many countries. All we know is when this virus hit Wuhan in B strain it went crazy. That's all we know for certain, the rest is speculation based on probability only.
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  2767. My fellow Australian is in a very small minority here. Most Australians think of Trump if they follow nothing about the US how has the US failed so badly with covid 19 , what is wrong with these people. Trump being the president must have something to do with that. If people actually followed things they would realise the US courtesy of both political parties has completely failed and Trump was the infector in chief, literally telling people at some rallies to get infected. Anyone who heard the Woodward taping of Trump knows that he is a pathetic individual misleading his population. In March Australia PM did a speech when putting Australia into lockdown supported by all state Premiers ( like governor) he said , " you will see a lot of deaths in poorer countries and this will be hard to watch", Trump ok did some speech saying have to lockdown however it was far less intense and 2 weeks later he was encouraging his supporters to " liberate " Democrat run states. Liberate is a term only used normally for armed conflict and removing a dictator, the Michigan governor understands this with the heavily armed protestors going into the state capitol building, Trump said they were good people. What a nasty human literally encouraging his supporters who he knows are armed and can be dangerous to act against political opponents. All Trump has achieved is the largest peace time killing in US history, somewhat like Americas great leap forward. Now I have worked out the Trump supporters call themselves Patriots based on Trump's new idea of a political party the Patriot Party and they say there will be civil war, some of these people are potentially very dangerous, spouting rubbish about the entire planet being communist. They often refer to Australia as a communist country because we haven't killed our citizens with the virus and took measures to protect people. To ordinary US citizens we know you aren't all that bad but Trump cult and Qanon followers are. Inherently most of them aren't bad as such but the brainwashing has made them like that..
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  2836. Well sometimes John is wrong or wrong emphasis when relating possible reasons for various countries success or failure and not holistic enough. He is trying to understand too much too quickly and of course can't read every comment because too many. As one example. The discussion over masks should compare Australia, New Zealand and Taiwan, not UK. I am not saying masks don't help in the case of an out of control outbreak, they do. Taiwan never got to that stage, and nor has all states in Australia plus New Zealand, other than Victoria . So there is no concrete evidence that masks do anything other than slow the spread and possibly cause a low dose or alternatively different initial infection point which maybe reduces the chances of major illness or death. Those countries that contained the virus, even if at a latter date had problems all successful at initial detection of the virus, contact tracing, effective public messaging and draconian enforcement of measures if the population required that. In Australia it was certainly required, Victoria took a little different approach and didn't want to fine anyone and keep stuff open including borders. It's not entirely a coincidence Victoria is having problems in my opinion. So masks are really the last line of defence after all else has failed in my opinion, they can't stop an outbreak. Correlation is not causation, other measures created the success , not masks. If masks were 100% effective healthcare workers would never get infected and they are trained to use proper N95 or P2 masks and still get infected even if at lower rates than the general public.
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  2883.  @martincahill5622  Your comment is spot on, truth is the messaging by numerous governments where the policy is to only slow the spread is completely misleading. The classic one is changing the definition of quarantine to mean reduce spread of contagious pathogens while countries like Australia, Taiwan, China etc. it still retains it's original meaning of to stop or prevent spread of contagious pathogens. This has had the effect that people even professional have wondered why certain countries at least before the Delta variant could contain the virus and keep going to covid zero when without looking at details everyone doing the same thing except they weren't because definitions were changed. In Australia now we having discussions about opening up and we have the inverse message being widely spread , learning to live with the virus is the message but the underlying policy is still covid 0 but with a lower emphasis on containment as in lockdowns less likely and enforced home quarantine as opposed to hotel quarantine and still continue with contact tracing and quarantine of the infected. The infected states as I call them are largely in lockdown and complaining about my state at the same time because we don't give assurance of fully opening border when 80% of eligible people vaccinated, quite premature and for the domestic state audience because if your state has the virus rampant you have nothing to lose by opening the border to a virus free state , your population gets more freedom possibly at the expense of another states existing freedoms.
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  2901.  @ripvanwinkle4532  there is no travel restrictions and in fact the US model all states has an inbuilt virus spread accelerator. You lockdown business in one state or county with high case rates to encourage people to travel to low infection areas, the virus couldn't ask for anything better and the best example of how to spread a virus with a partial lockdown. No state or national border in the US has hotel quarantine. As far as the partisan arguments variations in weather and densities make a big difference. South Dakota is probably the worst jurisdiction on the planet for killing it's citizens with no big city and about 40% rural population yet 0.18% of population dead, I think they found a way to infect farmers. Lockdown countries with border quarantine include China, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, Australia and New Zealand, other countries maybe falling of the rails but same policies in general South Korea, Japan and Thailand. None of these countries have anywhere near the deaths per capita of continuous lockdown lite countries and on average are actually lockdown less, just restrictions as required. My city Brisbane Australia went into a 3 day lockdown over a weekend without a single case of community transmission, the reason was because of a quarantine breach with a cleaner at a quarantine hotel, I don't think they found any cases and lockdown lite up to the 14 days period need to wear mask. Population highly compliant back to normal in a couple of weeks most likely. About 450 cases of community transmission in a state of about 5,000,000 and 7 deaths I think, so full lockdowns certainly work and partial lockdowns especially the US model ensures spread throughout all major states and territory even Hawaii , Alaska and Puerto Rico that are geographically isolated, done better than almost all mainland states but by international standards given low level of difficulties very poorly.
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  2905.  @ArialAElise  ok I misunderstood you. I know other than at the beginning and when Victoria Australia had serious problems all cases are genomic tested, but no idea how long that takes. About overall effectiveness of contact tracing , it will be very low where cases are high. I know in the case of Victoria when they got to about 500 cases per day it couldn't work at all in a state population of 6,500,000 and about 2,000 contact tracers. It was stated when Victoria basically developed a lockdown plan to get to very few cases that they were only confident that they could effectively contact trace 50 daily cases and anything higher the risk of having another major outbreak was too high, 90% confidence was given at the 50 cases per day that contact tracing would succeed. Contact tracing in Australia is track down everyone who was for example in a supermarket between certain times and encourage them to be tested etc. and then contact their close contacts for testing. My impression is contact tracing where the virus is rampant is just people that are close contacts as in household and work without bothering about looking for others and forget about secondary contacts without another known positive test result. Because of our fear in Brisbane of the UK strain the people at supermarkets where an infected person visited were declared close contacts and must get tested and isolate. So all supermarket staff working at that time would be going through self isolation and all the other customers they could find that were in store at the same time. These would normally be considered potential contacts not close contacts and maybe that with the 3 days lockdown is a bit over the top but better to do more and didn't have to than not do enough.
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  2919.  @williamhornabrook8081  the AZ vaccine is made all over the world, UK, Belgium, India, Thailand, Australia, China, USA, South Korea and others I believe, if France has the capability which I believe it has the government had to step in and provide funding to a local firm to start making it , also of course the local firm would need to agree to the "at cost " terms etc. from Astrazeneca and Astrazeneca gets nothing until pandemic I guess declared over by WHO to be over. In Australia for example the government paid for expansion of vaccine production capacity by CSL our local company. To me the EU can't decide if it's a country or group of trading/security partners, so in a way I don't think France is totally to blame as an individual country, but collectively the EU seems to be a country, taking away the rights of it's membership. The open borders policy in the EU seems slightly tougher than what individual Australian states in Australia can and have done to protect themselves. I saw some EU person naming countries that have shut their borders to whatever extent the EU deemed wrong. To travel interstate in Australia if a state has a lot of cases need a pass and an approved reason to travel and if not an emergency like urgent medical care which is generally exempt 2 weeks hotel quarantine for about $2,800 . So the EU and US (including no enforceable interstate restrictions) open border policies have of course ended in the same results. UK and Canada same too but at least finally put in some fairly relaxed measures. Certainly have sympathy to you as an individual but totally disagree with the choices made on your behalf.
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  3117. A lot of prejudice in this comment thread. Let's look at evidence. "Westerner" is a political term meaning country with majority European and not Eastern Europe usually but everyone when speaking with prejudice has their own definition. Chinese propaganda has a very narrow definition usually just points out problems unique to the US and then infers all of us are the same. Japan , China , Australia and New Zealand are four of the members of the Western Pacific WHO region, the head office is in Philippines and last time I checked the person in charge was Japanese. What our region did was ignore European WHO region and PAHO Pan-American Health Organization region which thought that keeping borders open and no quarantine was the go, our region thought this wasn't the way to go, we are actually a very diverse WHO region from Pacific Island nations half of ASEAN and East Asia , all different forms of government but very early on 14 days genuine quarantine usually hotel and enforced was adopted and genuine containment measures with outbreaks. Success creates success, the more failures that occurred the worse the problems got, Australia and New Zealand are very highly vaccinated, just as high as Japan and South Korea, your original point is mute. Every country has antivaxxers for various reasons , mostly fear though and if time is taken and the government is trusted high vaccination rates will follow. In Eastern Europe and many in the US in particular people don't trust their governments and vaccinations are lower than they could be. It's actually that simple, nothing to do with culture or race or even form of government.
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  3157.  @krollpeter  Other than Taiwan and Vietnam the rest of us "Asian" countries including Australia and New Zealand have a very different view on matters and understand the term quarantine. You can look at it country by country and you will discover that quarantine is taken very seriously in our part of the world. In Australia now there are effectively 7 major quarantine zones for covi sars2, each health jurisdiction basically which is a state or territory. There are more travel restrictions inside Australia than there are in Western Europe where to give the UK example the door has always been open with quarantine actually meaning an extremely relaxed voluntary scheme where you can infect others even if you follow the rules. We naturally have about 5 major different quarantine zones with agriculture during normal times. To give an example in my particular part of the world, dirt can't be taken outside of an approximately 100 km diameter circle without a permit which will probably never be issued at this point in time due to a fire ant problem in which we appear to have eliminated them in the end with the use of sniffer dogs. It is illegal to grow cavendish bananas in a non commercial manner because that is the main commercial variety and private plantings might cause risk to the industry. If you look at beef it has happened on a few occasions that American beef gets banned in South Korea and Japan because of agricultural outbreaks which the US is slow to contain but New Zealand and Australian beef have never been banned to my knowledge. SARS 1 affected the regions tourism very badly and since then the region has put systems in place and I know in Australia when you enter since then it is emphasized that if you get sick within 2 weeks tell the doctor where you have travelled from and not entirely sure but I think it's standard practice for doctors to ask anyway. All successful countries either have tough quarantine measures for imported food and or are major exporters of agricultural products where fairly major industries are threatened by any outbreaks. So I guess I am saying a culture has developed in this region. I do wonder after this is all finished will Western Europe and the US change or not. I don't think East Asian region will be changing. With Thailand accepting inbound tourists soon I expect quarantine will fail because the quarantine measures appear fairly relaxed by Australian standards. The locked in your room part of quarantine in Thailand is only 7 days and your room gets cleaned every 2 days according to the hotels offering the service which no matter how much care is taken produces higher risk and then after 7 days you can mingle with other guests for the next week , not 14 days you are locked in your room and no one's going to clean it as is standard practice throughout Australia I believe.
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  3257. I am Australian and my understanding as borne out by what is occurring is China is fighting a propaganda war against us claiming all sorts of things, racism to the point the Chinese shouldn't travel to Australia because of the dangers. They made this allegation some time ago but never made such an allegation against the USA as far as I am aware. China wants power and influence over ASEAN countries. The US and European handling of covid 19 has shown those countries to be weak countries incapable of running themselves, so don't actually have to say anything. Some claims by China are ridiculous, for example they claimed that an agreement between Australia and Japan that we would have joint military training exercises on each other's soil was somehow threatening, noting that China is a nuclear power with a 2.5 million strong military versus Australia and Japans combined troop numbers about 500,000. I wonder why they don't complain about Singapore training troops in Australia which has been going on for quite some time. I think privately China hoped Australia and New Zealand would fail in the Covid 19 response so then they could assert that they are superior. China has accused Australia of being a bully, which is quite funny except maybe it gets some traction although my thinking is it would only get traction inside of China because other countries would consider it ridiculous that a country of 25 million could bully a country of 1.4 billion. What the Chinese do is actions to infuriate us. An example is after 20 years not a single issue with quality of coking coal and possibly thermal coal but now all of a sudden they have basically banned Australian coal saying there are quality issues with about 60 ships basically stranded at sea. Analysts say China will now be paying higher costs for lower grades of coal. The only silver lining is that China's competitors would be a little more competitive. I am not certain but I think changing from a trade war against the US to then being buddies with the US with regards to agriculture while simultaneously putting tariffs on Australian produce is probably designed to make us angry with the US. They also know because the information is publically available US farmers do receive subsidies and Australian farmers don't on anywhere near the scale of US farmers. We shall see what happens over the next few months, especially after Biden becomes president the Chinese might back off of Australia. That does depend what Biden does a little bit I think.
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  3383. The US has congealed all levels of government in practice and politically also. I don't know why this has occurred in your country but it has. So I would suggest even though it might not be the case your Federal representatives either fairly or unfairly are associated with local government wackjobs , take Minneapolis Minesotta , defund police has turned into paying more for police and a 77% increase in murders in the last year but that's old news. I don't have any answers for your country because it seems political disfunction is the norm and partisanship has reached the levels it did during the civil rights era once again. Saving face is a big problem in the US, you are no different to the Chinese in this way. The day American exceptionalism dies you could start approaching the standards of liberal Democracies around the world , of which on many key measures except wealth per capita you perform poorly. Let's take one issue health, why does your country pay more in government funded healthcare than Australia both as a proportion of GDP and gross amount per capita. Your life expectancy is rated at 46th best and is approaching a 5 year gap between the US and Australia. Clearly something isn't working. Sorry if I am a bit negative, truth is I find out how lucky I am in Australia as an ordinary person. I hope things get better for you. Maybe American Exceptionalism (which is arrogant feelings of superiority) should become American potential because certain aspects of your country give it potential above many others with the resource base both mineral and agricultural along with being the largest wealthy liberal democracy the potential is always there without having to oppress other countries for it to be realised as was common in the past across the board.
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  3417.  @ARE_YOU_SICK_OF_YT_CENSORSHIP  I read a significant amount of the link you showed me. Nothing is ever absolute otherwise it could be argued that wheeling around a 500 pound nuclear weapon is the right of every US citizen because they have the right to bear arms. It comes down to is that reasonable, most US citizens but possibly not all would consider the right to bear arms not an absolute right but a basic right meaning to protect your own property on real estate you own the government should not unreasonably restrict you and probably means arms that can fire projectiles such as a fire arm or a bow and arrow or crossbow, not a nuclear device which is a pretty good weapon of defence. If the court overturned the decision made 100 years ago approximately in relation to the Spanish flu then the constitution has been reconsidered but until then quarantine measures are lawful in the US even though no governor or the federal government has had the guts to do that. The right to petition is interesting because in the US case it literally means that anyone can ask the President and or his cabinet which is the unelected government of your country for something and he or his secretaries must consider it. That is technically impossible because with modern technology 50,000,000 people tomorrow could ask President Trump for something or in other words petition him, he's already getting on a bit and by the time he gets 0.1% of the way through he will be dead or no longer president. Would it be reasonable to expect your President to consider 50,000,000 matters? Just remember a couple of hundred years ago the population and then the part of the population that was literate and then the part of that population that would spend a day's pay for a letter to be sent . It was a very exclusive club, now any idiot like me and you with 5 minutes spare can send a question or request to a politician. I sent a message to my Prime Minister maybe 2 months ago, I can't be angry and didn't expect a reply under current circumstances, hope he or staff read it but if they didn't oh well not something I am going to get angry about.
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  3589. He is a radical leftist. I am speaking this in a country with what is normally considered universal healthcare. His ideas go way beyond what exists in Australia. His idea on pretty much an open border is radical left, by Australian standards Trump is to the left on this issue. If it was the Australian government and now even our left wing party the military would be put on the border to stop all unauthorised arrivals until the problem is fixed. When looking into the disfunction of your federation especially the way states decide who votes and receive welfare etc. I would totally agree with him. But the elephant in the room is your system is like having an elected king, who is largely unaccountable and selects the entire ministry at will ( you call them secretaries of this and that) unelected ministers seems crazy to an outsider. Bernie isn't for fundamental change of the federation which is what is required first to achieve more even outcomes throughout the country. The response to COVI Sars2 laid bare the disfunction in coordination and complete failures on both the state and federal levels by both political parties. Maybe it'll make no difference in the long run but I prefer to be in a country where 5 infections is considered an outbreak rather than 5,000. The duopoly on power due to your voting and registration requirements should be removed so Bernie for arguments sake could be in Congress as member of the Greens where I would suggest he belongs with AOC. Having a strict 2 party system means radicals are in the Democrat and Republican parties .
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  3600. @ChautamGancy  I am Australian, things are very different here. Things aren't perfect but we have close to universal healthcare at about the same cost to our government as your government spends. Our minimum wage is $17 USD per hour when including retirement savings which is about 10% added to the hourly rate. I have been comparing supermarket pricing in Walmart versus Woolworths Australia. The US seems to have a few things cheaper such as pork, chicken and Turkey. Pretty much everything else is approximately the same price with Australia having cheaper lamb , bread , pasta and rice if the generic or home brand and slightly cheaper ground beef. Housing costs are high in Australia and probably well above the average compared to the US but we don't have to worry so much about medical care if required and our minimum wage is about double that of the US so grocery prices aren't as big a deal even though people tend to over react if it's something they buy daily. The 2 things mentioned by Bernie is what really needs fixing urgently, start putting the federal minimum wage up 2.5% every 6 months and just open the market to imports with any generic drugs as a starting point. Australia has a controlled border so that's not an issue directly but we are allowing massive immigration. The US should definitely fix the immigration thing or manage legal immigration but after 40 years of bipartisan not caring it becomes very hard to fix. Sorry I rave on a bit. I do agree with you that Democrats don't seem to be fixing things either.
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  3911. China has been sort of demanding cheap iron ore below the cost of Brazilian iron ore for about 15 years. Australia has about 53% of the internationally traded iron ore market and China 69% . China needs our iron ore just like previously the US needed Saudi oil. China considers iron or just like oil, a national security item. The trading percentages for metallurgical coal are similar. If you understand Trump you understand China, China doesn't like trade deficits and the US doesn't like trade deficits. China has a trade deficit with Australia, the US has a trade deficit with China. China might be opening up for foreign investment now however this wasn't always the case, China wants to have full rights to buy Australian assets yet it doesn't appear to go the other direction. Should Australia cave in and abandon foreign investment rules especially in the resources sector? Should Australia not have foreign political interference laws which actually a real demand of China openly stated by the ambassador? Incorrectly in both cases of US and China they think a trade war with trade deficit countries will advantage them. While China is causing pain to some of Australias agricultural sector and now thermal coal they are paying more for iron ore and I suspect more for metallurgical coal because any destabilization pushes prices up and Chinese steel producers will stockpile raw materials if they can because they afraid China or Australia might cut the supply. Nobody wins in a trade war. Whether or not the Covid 19 investigation and other similar issues plays a big part in what China is doing with Australia I think this is unknown. One thing I think Australia could do is point out that there is no intention of ever cutting off the supply of iron ore or metallurgical coal because I get the feeling China is fearful that might do this because of exactly what you just said , they think maybe Sky News Australia is like Fox News to the US and that it might have a large following , almost every person commenting on sky News Australia says cut the iron ore supply from China or in other words start a real war and cause economic collapse of China and Australia because we are the most reliant on each other of any two G20 countries. No major Australian political party thinks like this but China possibly doesn't realise that.
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  4006. A problem with the arguments in the US against privately run healthcare being inconsistent with good outcomes is the argument is often flawed. Each segment of healthcare services needs to be looked at individually and assessed for effectiveness. There's only one part of healthcare that shouldn't be for profit and that's emergency care. One aspect that never comes up in discussions in the US is liability laws increasing costs. A hospital or doctor can be sued for following best practice because a bad outcome occurs, this increases costs dramatically throughout insurance and overservicing due to fears of being sued. As far as insurance goes it's clearly poorly regulated, the exact opposite applies to insurance companies that can't be sued no matter what they do. Universal healthcare doesn't mean full nationalisation of healthcare but the government pays for most services regardless who provides them. In Australia our primary care doctors referred to as GPs are all private businesses that are largely funded by the federal government, however a doctor can charge above the government subsidy and the patient has to pay the difference. All drugs in almost every country are free market for profit products, there might be a few exceptions in the world where the government sets up drug making factories for generic drugs. The US is the only country in the world that doesn't believe in the free market pricing for drugs and sometimes the government pays up to 10 times the free market rate, basically a subsidy for the purpose of price gouging both the government and permission to price gouge private individuals. That's insane.
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  4057.  @lacdirk  That's interesting what you say, I didn't know that the UK stopped any vaccines going the opposite direction which of course isn't good. As far as the scaling up etc. these aren't Astrazeneca , they are whatever local maker, like in Australia it's CSL and it's whoever in each country, Astrazeneca is playing an oversight role for the most part and chosen to do that because the developers of the vaccine in Oxford wouldn't have that capability, originally they wanted to do it but I guess realised it would be too difficult , need a pharmaceutical giant to do it , arranging and overseeing maybe 50 different companies manufacturing it would not be easy and if one stuffs up it will tarnish the rest. I agree that the EU has been the best in regards to allowing exports but also believe the Oxford Astrazeneca vaccine rollout and acceptance anyone can make as equally good. It's unfortunate that things haven't gone as well as anticipated. The EU did say they would play a major roll in production and distribution to the world and have done so as well as can be expected I guess but they could think before they act, instead of blocking exports to Australia they could have contacted Australia apologized and said we can only allow 150,000 to be exported we know you have done a great job in containing the virus and your need is less than ours, we can't politically justify more than that number being exported to you at this time. In other words could have been done in in a much better way which keeps the ban thing out of the picture , because this means even in countries with high cases they must hold back half of the doses for the second jab, which will slow the rollout even where it's needed most. One thing you don't consider is put yourself in an Australian shoes, we have had an international travel ban the entire time , while Europe and the Americas have been living it up with virtually no border restrictions, while this isn't exactly my position it feels like if you made sacrifices and successful you will be punished, stay locked up that's your problem. I have seen comments to that effect and we are ok we get it slowly and pretty sure government is too , it takes pressure off them in a way, but don't openly cut us off.
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  4058.  @lacdirk  what you understand as lockdown is very different to an Australian, European countries had multiple partial ongoing lockdowns , the key word is partial. Open borders for the well to do just travel to wherever isn't locked down, an automatic spreading mechanism like in the US. Which country has universal hotel quarantine for 14 days, up to now exactly 0, the UK has partial 10 days hotel quarantine and everywhere else 10 days voluntary quarantine. How many cities in Europe have been surrounded by police checkpoints to reduce travel in Europe? I haven't heard of any, here it was Melbourne, Perth and Auckland. The island of Ireland has less people than greater Melbourne so they had it easier with a far more rural population but they kept the borders open and interstate workers would be no more than Victorian interstate workers. Malta basically a small island community couldn't even succeed for the same reason open borders without quarantine. Italy didn't even find a single case until February 21 last year, they were completely asleep, that's not luck that's just being useless, Australia detected 15 cases by that time equal to about the number of cases detected in Europe's entirety and same number for the US. You can say lucky we have measures in place and were in a relative sense prepared but not some external forces luck. If you check every single country with more than 5 detected cases by the end of January last year (US maybe exception but relative to real numbers the US detected far less) the not one of them has more than 100 deaths per million. There is basically a 100% correlation with what countries did in the first month and their relative position now. As far as supply chains, of course Australia is no different on an interstate basis, just stop all unnecessary travel. I am in Queensland , actually we did better than New Zealand, New Zealand initially was a bit slow to react it seems , however they made up for it with a proper lockdown and eliminated the virus early on. The cruelest thing is to have a year of partial lockdowns which is what Europe and the US did because it never ends. The countries inside of European WHO region and PAHO (Pan American Health Organization) all have had until recently completely open borders with only 10 days voluntary quarantine (stopping foreign nationals is meaningless , the virus never checks your citizenship). All countries in the Western Pacific WHO region from China down to New Zealand have 14 days mandatory enforced quarantine for any arrivals. I think these individual WHO offices made recommendations that were followed or it's a remarkable coincidence, no one should blame the WHO as a whole it's your regional office that seemed to recommend what occurred in your region and that's run by countries in your region, or it's just a remarkable coincidence. By definition if you can travel across a border you aren't locked down. I understand most ordinary people are in a virtual lockdown , the freedom of travel is for the well off who didn't lose their jobs. Even billionaire in Australia had there interstate travel cut off , there were no exceptions, one billionaire named Clive Palmer took a state government to the high court of Australia over the issue and the court found the state acted reasonably to protect it's citizens. So to travel interstate when outbreaks occur you need first to prove a good reason and then 14 days mandatory enforced hotel quarantine for about $2,800 AUD for a single, double is cheaper because only food extra. Melbourne had equal second toughest lockdown outside of China, comparable to the lockdown in Italy, but Italy just allowed cases to return instead of finishing the job. When Melbourne went into hard lockdown it had more daily cases than Canada in it's entirety, many countries had the opportunity to rid themselves if this horrible virus but didn't finish the job , through choice. Enough of my raving on but maybe gives you some insight of what and why people will think how they think and also a probable reason countries are where they are. A side note Australia, New Zealand and Japan probably have the toughest plant and animal quarantine measures in the world normally, this in it of itself shows readiness, a strange fact is a dog is free to travel between these countries once a dog has spent 14 days in any of those countries, it's a long process to get a dog in involving a six month vaccination process for rabies. Humans can't yet travel between these countries without an extremely good reason.
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  4120. The humidity correlation if it even exists is only a correlation. The confinement of people indoors without good ventilation is the issue. The remark about Thailand should apply to Singapore a constantly humid environment , note the infections in Singapore are mostly migrant workers in boarding houses. Thai people are scared of tap water, these are people that take infection risk to a ridiculous degree. When I am in Thailand obviously not in the last 6 months I drink the tap water in Bangkok and surrounding cities and half the year because the mineral content varies it tastes better than Brisbane Australia water. Many Thai people wear face coverings particularly the poorer people working in agriculture or selling items in Street side carts in Bangkok. A story my Thai girl friend told me earlier on is an infected person went back to her village which infected her parents causing their deaths. This person wasn't very popular to say the least , after that the village market areas required face masks. In Bangkok maybe 5,000,000 residencies plus almost all retail outlets have airconditioning running constantly when occupied. Thailand was the first country to find a case outside of China. Initial response and competency of the response is the key , humidity doesn't decide if your government is competent or not. Any modern city has buildings with heating and cooling so essentially the same condition exists everywhere on the planet with apartment blocks and inner city homes, other than slums or rural areas. It's quite possible that many African countries have the same culture regarding protecting themselves from disease as the Thai's do. That culture also slows the initial spread because social distancing between class groups is much greater in low to middle income countries. The rich get the disease first of course due to air travel etc. Hope you don't mind my dissenting opinion on the main point.
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  4139.  @dareptile2653  You seem to be wilfully ignorant. Trump is promoting what he calls operation warp speed, that is a socialist scheme by which the US intervenes in the market to help US companies produce a vaccine and a guaranteed market. So intervention at 2 points and arguably a good socialist idea. The US government pays a very high proportion of money for research in the medical field creating new drugs and other treatments, which every major country tends to do. More socialism. So it can be said that medical research is not free market at all, because governments around the world offer subsidies etc. otherwise those companies leave. The US doesn't even have a free market for agriculture, a socialist scheme was set up over 80 years ago, possibly a world first at the time , called the school lunch program designed to give farmers money and feed kids. Trump boasted about throwing money at farmers , he doesn't believe in the free market. The US regardless of party loves to subsidise small inefficient farms. If you look at government spending to GDP you will see the US spends about the same as Australia, New Zealand and UK. How is it that you consider us all crazy socialists when your government as a headline number spends the same amount. You can argue about which socialist policies are good or bad but right now your president is very happy to subsidise the Covid 19 response including subsidies for care, if you hate your current president for this that's entirely up to you, maybe a country that is in the midst of a civil war is suitable for you because you won't see these socialist programs you so despise. Send a letter to your president and tell him how much you hate his socialist policies and how you want no more medical subsidy and NIH and CDC should be abolished because it goes against your free market principles (which exist nowhere on the planet other than failed states).
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  4297.  @stoufer2000  You have to look at issues one by one and consider a country's failings to consider what might be a problem. Australia has the largest foreign born population in the world along with Switzerland apparently and we have a controlled border. New Zealand and Canada not so different. So I am just pointing out one issue that is problematic in the US and UK, this issue means the UK and US will have problems in this area which creates groups who blame the "foreigners" despite the fact both those countries have less foreign immigrants but far more illegal immigrants. Depending what you mean by right wing , if you are talking about anti foreigner and or immigrant sentiment well we are at fairly low risk of that developing in any meaningful way because rule of law exists, that is a controlled border. On trade issues which apparently far left and far right take the same view, that is protectionism, Australia and New Zealand don't have this problem, if you look at the economic freedom index you will see positions 1,2,3 are basically an informal group of free trade promoters Singapore, Australia and New Zealand, we are all trade surplus countries. For any extreme positions to take hold first a problem has to be identified, you can't create extremism from an overall happy population where things are good. So at the moment no risk, this doesn't however mean in the future if things go into decline or for example we abandon a controlled border policy it can't happen, just pointing out we are in a good position now as is New Zealand.
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  4447.  Hannah Dyson  NZ was one of the places suicides down slightly. My state Queensland it is in between a year ago and the year before that. What has occurred in Australia and NZ based on following them a little bit is lobbyists who already worried about mental health drawing attention to the issue and the mob who literally say 25,000 dead Aussies and Kiwis is the way to go and let's follow Sweden , noting we have restrictions no worse than Sweden anyway. The people suggesting the Swedish model are suffering mental illness and believe we will fail despite evidence to the contrary. Everything is open but the economic impact still exists but again it's still not as bad as a country in lockdown whether enforced or voluntary. I live in inner city Brisbane and my balcony overlooks a major road , I can tell you things are back to relative normal, this doesn't mean boom times but peak hour traffic jams have returned. Young people in Australia and New Zealand have only ever known boom times pretty much , coinciding with the continuous economic expansion of China from 1991 to now. For people who have only known boom times I think it's possible that the mental effects of not being in a boom are more adverse to the society. We have had dips and industry specific problems but never has it affected the majority of the population like this time in recent history. Australia has increased funding for mental health and did so about March or April from memory. So in some ways seeing what is happening in other countries is a significant contributor to mental health issues because those who think we will fail which causes anxiety are believing that because they see pretty much every European country and US fail and by a very wide margin.
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  4499.  @vbin9081  sounds like we actually agree, your a bit Utopian in what might be possible and on the other hand a bit of a conspiracy theorist on what you think will happen. The point about the US limited socialism model is it's directed more to corporations than it should be. As far as both of countries seeming to go down sort of an inevitable path of being more and more socialist , we only disagree in so far as I don't think it's inevitable but you seem to. We have to see over the next 10 years what happens, I am quietly confident Australia will generally stay on course but don't think it's a given. Some things do spill over from the US and UK to Australia but it's not always one direction, Singapore, New Zealand and Australia probably in that order are pushing a free trade agenda in our region and quite successfully actually, the TPP was most likely started by Singapore and or New Zealand as a trade grouping called P4 according to Wiki but with the US not wanting to join it still exists as CPTPP and Biden's apparently willing to consider it but will probably try to water it down a bit with too many conditions about workers and environment. It might be well meaning but truth is for poor countries to develop and get better incomes for their citizens the starting point by wealthy countries is very low but no trade they get nothing so even poorer. We will wait and see if the US joins and I hope it does. The approach our countries are taking is just keep putting more and more deals on top of each other, there are 4 different free trade deals with Australia and Singapore now as an example so it's really hard for any future government to get rid of 4 deals involving 20 countries give or take because 3 of the deals are multilateral. To give the US example Trump did threaten at one point to throw out our bilateral free trade agreement, however if we have a bilateral one and CPTPP it makes it twice as hard for the US to get out of Free trade with Australia.
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  4554.  @jeffwolff1015  I don't think you actually disagree with me however you are singling out one measure as not effective. Without border quarantine or travel restrictions by definition you are not locked down. The US never had travel restrictions and no border quarantine either interstate or international other than voluntary. You do recognize that the US lockdown failed and I agree because contact tracing etc. outside of a few states still hasn't occured. Australia s initial path was that of the US but we diverged significantly as you can see. Our technical capability in the beginning was equal to that of the US. Even though our federal government didn't like it all state borders shut except one. Lockdowns are proportional so if numbers are low enough no need for a hard lockdown, if cases are brought to 0 very quickly like Taiwan, no need for lockdown anymore, they did do a lockdown however closing bars, restaurants take out only and mask wearing. Taiwan had the advantage versus let's say my state Queensland because far fewer incoming cases which might surprise you. So a state of 5,000,000 has had twice as many documented imported cases than Taiwan a population of 25,000,000 so better resourced to deal with the matter. I don't know what the best path might be for the US at this point in time, 300,000 excess deaths already including directly from covid 19 and from secondary effects. The US will not do a hard lockdown and so far looking like no state or Puerto Rico are going to put in travel restrictions with enforced quarantine. New York is apparently going to rely on testing for air arrivals to reduce the incoming cases I guess and maybe that's the best way to go because I don't think any state wants to go covid 19 free. Anyway best of luck , I feel for you and I am happy to be in a covid 19 free state that had maybe 8 weeks hard lockdown in the beginning and fairly low restrictions since other than interstate travel which hopefully comes off in a month or so if all states covid 19 free.
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  4732.  @Mis-AdventureCH  Your last answer explains a lot regarding your previous comments. Australia isn't in lockdown and in Australia the states run their own shows with federal guidance and complete communication between States and the federal government, a bit easier because only 7 versus 50 for the US. Greater Sydney which is in lockdown is about 25% of the national population and they are, New South Wales is fairly slow to lockdown compared to my state Queensland which takes a more cautious approach, very similar to Western Australia and New Zealand. Our states will restrict travel from any hotspot which is anywhere that has any cases at all basically. So if in New South Wales it gets out of control they won't be able to travel to any other state for some time. New Zealand in effect is like another state so far as travel goes and under normal circumstances a completely open border for citizens born in either country. My state Queensland with a population of 5 million only 7 deaths, vast majority of people are happy with this and are ok with the travel restrictions as required. We have had few lockdowns actually because we always act quickly. Best of luck to you and hope your country's problems reduce. I understand your health system isn't that functional and working in it could be rather frustrating. The US spends more on publically funded healthcare as a proportion of GDP than Australia but life expectancy 5 years lower and doesn't seem to be universal coverage. No idea how it can be fixed but just the numbers indicates disfunction and most likely some of what you are talking about. Take care.
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  4874.  Calvin Parish  thanks for the long reply, I am not as harsh as you and seriously send AOC a letter just explaining things you have directly dealt with that don't make sense, she is a person who will likely read it as long as it gets past her staff who might read it first. To guard against this possibility write the word confidential on the front of the envelope underlined and assuming it means the same thing as in Australia nobody can open it but her unless I guess she authorises that. My impression from the clips of her is she will go into details and consider the matter seriously, not just a person going for votes. Have to send by snail mail though in my opinion because emails are too easily deleted. One thing that would apply to California but not this Texas situation is what South Australia has done, they have the largest lithium ion battery in the world and seems working well with all the systems designed to quickly readjust energy flow. Interestingly they currently have a greater risk of blackout by renewables overloading the system and possibly soon producing more energy at peaks than is used causing the system to crash. Previously they had a heat induced brown or blackouts caused by a lot of wind power that when it got hot stopped working because the wind stopped, maybe same to California , I don't know. You are open to renewables which is good but understand the limitations and the politics which sometimes save no energy and possibly use more in the name of energy savings or carbon emissions.
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  5045. Trump probably isn't a direct threat but he has radicalised many, it only takes a few of them to become terrorists and they can do a lot of damage. Trump used rhetoric that for example the Oklahoma Bomber used. Economically he has done a lot of damage because the US government debt has skyrocketed especially with his handling of covid 19. If Biden's tax plan gets through this might help a little but because your country is in a really deep hole getting out will become more difficult I expect but being the biggest economy in the world you can get away with things other countries can't. The corporate welfare in the US doesn't make up for lack of social welfare for humans and this is the most stark difference between a country like my country Australia and the US. Australia is more free trade and less industry welfare but relatively effective social welfare. As an example the US governments spend more as a proportion of GDP on healthcare yet it's not universal and from a holistic approach has lower outcomes because life expectancy in the US is about 4 years lower. Covid 19 has shown how deficient the US health system from a holistic point of view is, 500 covid 19 tests in the US by the end of February and no contact tracing or quarantine to speak of , so hundreds of cases from China if that became millions of cases and much more cases came from Europe anyway with again no quarantine. In comparison Australia 10,000 tests by the end of February for 1 fifteenth of the population, contact tracing and quarantine for all arrivals, on testing South Korea with about 1 fifth the population of the US 100,000 tests by the end of February. US people could have handled it being done properly and Trump would be the greatest president ever but although the initial failures don't seem to be his fault the continued failure to the point of encouraging people to infect each other certainly was and to use his own words allowing the virus to spread throughout all states and territories he should be punished. Maybe he will be in the end we wait and see.
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  5061.  @Dick_Interritus  So you don't believe the published data of the US and or Australia, well there's no convincing you then. If you are referring to Howard Springs a converted mining camp that all our Olympians went through for quarantine just like anyone else, except it's far better than hotel quarantine which most people went through as a concentration camp you couldn't be further from the truth. As you would be aware all countries in the Western Pacific region of WHO had hotel quarantine except maybe the French and US protectorates. Our deaths are less than 10% of the PAHO Pan-American Health Organization region on a per capita basis. So 1 million dead so that you didn't have to quarantine and your right to infect remained in tack. The Queen could technically remove a Prime Minister but needs to have a reason as in the government can't function however it's the Queen's representative the Governor General who would actually do that as happened in the early 70s when one party in the Senate cut funding from the government so the assessment was made that the government couldn't function so the government was dissolved and an election called. Usually in a constitutional democracy a PM will be removed and replaced within the party by a simple vote electing a new leader but obviously from the same party. By the way our Monarch's title is Queen of Australia and technically she is also the Queen of each state within also, so I could call her the Queen of Queensland, my state. In her capacity as Queen of Australia she has nothing to do with the UK she just lives there and is a citizen there. If Australia went to war with the UK I wonder what she would do, probably tell us both to cut it out.
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  5062.  @Dick_Interritus  No the PM to get the boot from the Governor General was Gough Whitlam and not sure when but it was before Whitlam a PM named Harold Holt and I don't think they ever discovered what happened to him. With taxes even income taxes the Australian system is so different you can't actually do a side by side comparison. Obviously the US being more socialist and less of a free trading country you pay more for many imported goods. With income tax I'll just point out with dividends, in Australia we receive what is called an imputed credit, this means the dividend is paid with the tax attached that the company already paid and our company tax is 30% which is much higher than the US, this credit will be applied to my personal tax and I may get a refund or have to pay more according to my tax bracket so if I only make it into the 22% tax bracket or whatever I will get a refund so for arguments sake $70 dividend with $30 tax credit I will get a refund of $8. In the US although the company tax rate is lower you will never get credited for your share of tax already paid by the company and might need to pay up to 20% on top as income tax plus a state income tax on top of that. So as far as income tax goes tell me your circumstances and I could usually tell you which country would be better for you , Australian states can't have an income tax because of constitutional constraints thank goodness. Our tax systems create different behaviours, Australian companies pay higher dividends and US companies tend to hoard money and reinvest it to try and achieve gains through capital gains which are taxed differently in Australia and USA. So I believe whatever you read was probably correct but unless it pointed out all the significant differences of which there are many, unintentionally misleading.
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  5063.  @Dick_Interritus  As far as how tax money is spent, it's a case by case basis, so for public healthcare it's far better spent than in the US but from the extremely little I know South Korea and Japan do better than Australia with this. Does the Australian or Queensland government waste money and make big mistakes on occasion, of course , every government does anywhere in the world, it's a matter of how bad and more importantly do they learn from the mistakes and try not to do it again and on average Australia and my state of Queensland is performing pretty well. I am actually taking a one man fight to both my state and federal government's at the moment regarding strata title properties, yes we are as bad possibly worse than many US states, don't know what happened with it but that apartment tower collapse in Florida could happen here and nobody can legally be held responsible. My background is listed investments in 3 countries Australia of course, Malaysia and Thailand, these listed investments are all regulated to a high standard, strata title properties there's no rules at all in my state, gain power you can do whatever you want, no possibility of being sacked or banned for unlawful behaviour because no provision for that. By unlawful behaviour I am referring to listed company standards because of course nothing is unlawful in the QLD strata title industry. You know you threw me a curved ball, I expected to be fighting you but you didn't fight , you actually discuss things in a normal manner. I know comment sections are dominated by those with strong right or left opinions who tend to be highly aggressive, in some ways I want what cannot be, a lot more people making comments who are somewhere in the centre. One thing about you which tells me you are really a genuine person is you saying my family benefits from some sort of agricultural handouts or subsidies or whatever but you don't think that's good. A hardline partisan never admits anything, that would be losing face.
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  5229. Americans are generally inward looking and don't like change, they want to dream into reality some apparent golden age that they think existed previously. Just to take one issue which stands out like dogs balls. US publically funded healthcare is more expensive per capita than Australian publically funded healthcare which is universal excluding dental. The US has the lowest life expectancy of any wealthy country in the world so using the most obvious metric it's the most expensive public plus private healthcare system in the world with the lowest outcome for a wealthy country. Looking from afar it's pretty obvious why and this is bipartisan policy by the way, the Democrats aren't organized enough to change anything. The US government literally refuses to buy drugs and treatment options at a reasonable price, the market which is a monopoly for emergency care is able to set prices in most cases. Drugs are put to market not based on efficacy and cost effectiveness but according to the ability of drug companies to market their drugs to consumers who believe they aren't paying. In the private insurance sector for healthcare every time costs increase for healthcare the insurers see the the next pot of gold because insurance is actually a commission business, higher costs equals higher premiums and higher margins and the government won't say a word because the insurers will just say but costs have gone up. Many Democrats say spend more money and Republicans say it's the best system in the world already which it clearly isn't because it's not communist or other ridiculous arguments, they literally want to pay more tax for healthcare that they might not even be entitled to. Republicans and Democrats have met in the middle on this issue because the overarching system agreed to is bipartisan policy. Crazy people like AOC literally just want what the rest of the wealthy world has at a cheaper price than you pay now. In any other country including middle income countries, AOC would be considered the only normal one and the vast majority of other Democrats and all Republicans as radical big government spenders with some sort of socialist agenda because the public healthcare isn't universal.
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  5381.  @bryandunn7953  I can add other countries to the list of can't be worse off such as China and Vietnam and Thailand (? Current political unrest but not really related to covid 19). The reason for this is it's impossible to now end up in as bad a situation as countries where the virus is rampant and all outcomes are worse on the health front because the mental health effects are greater and of course economic flow on effects which are part mental health. The reason the virus free countries will never allow the virus to get out of control now is because they are battle hardened so to speak and nobody will object to any localised lockdown the moment an outbreak is identified, in fact it's political suicide not to act even in the one party countries because if the outbreak spreads even a little bit you will be blamed. China has actually expanded it's economy year on year in the last quarter. As far as what other countries should do now outside of those with few cases which should go for elimination I don't have a strong opinion other than when the vaccine is widely available a 6 week lockdown maybe and get rid of the virus, the mental health gains by having no virus are significant, both the do nothing and lockdown people in US or UK both believe things will fail , they are defeated and while this view persists it's bad for mental health and over time let's be blunt if the virus mutates so that most vaccines don't work it's back to almost square one for those countries that never gained control. Certainty is what helps mental health more than any other thing.
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  5643.  @benwilson6145  Well point by point, Trump claims he is a Christian and isn't, Morrison is a Christian, so what I am an atheist and couldn't care less. I guess next point relates to the cruise ship well it happened so what? What matters is it was corrected. If he said Rupert Murdoch is his friend again so what, Rupert Murdoch has supported both sides of politics over the years and although he does or used to at least choose people to run his media interests he generally have them free reign and believes the media should represent both sides, if you look at the various Murdoch press in Australia it depends on the publication, the Australian for example although I haven't read it for a while was very balanced actually. Sky News Australia is comparable to Fox News , sometimes not sure which is worse. Qanon thing don't know about that or why he would say that Qanon hates all Australian politicians of both parties and thinks Trump is a world saviour. This would be completely contradictory to Morrison's UN speech where he mentions misinformation being spread about covid 19 , an indirect rebuff to Donald Trump the biggest spreader of misinformation. As far as outbreaks inside of a state it is the State governments fault because they are required to run the response, in the end Australia has succeeded and the Federal government is a major part of that success along with all state leaders, regardless of political party. In the beginning Dan Andrews and Morrison were actually the closest together on the response actually with open borders policy etc. Thank goodness other states ignored those 2 along with NSW because otherwise we would likely look like other countries. Again it's not by political affiliation the federal government is bleeding cash big time so of course wants borders open because that will help, all states except NSW and NT backed down it would seem on the definition of hotspot, now real position seems to be 14 days no cases of community transmission or your state will have travel restrictions except hardline WA won't budge at all yet. The states are scared of ever getting into the Victorian situation so remain cautious and Dan Andrews according to opening plan is now a hardline state having dropped the open border policy. In the end the federal government did assist states even when disagree on policy and of course provided major assistance to Victoria when needed, Trump I hate to say didn't seem to care one bit unless it's a "red state". So Australian leaders are nothing like Trump, Trump is literally like Pauline Hanson , who is good for our democracy because all voices should be heard but should never be and can never be Prime Minister. Australia has offered a far more consistent stimulus and truth is it was too generous and needs to be wound back. The US doesn't have that funds are cut at the moment because Trump wants a $100,000,000 not specified for exact spending and Democrats don't want him having $100 Billion not assigned properly because Trump using executive power can just spend it however he wants with very wide parameters. This is nothing like the Australian situation.
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  5733.  @frostbyte6251  Everything always comes from history, the way a person thinks is almost entirely environmental and has nothing to do with genetics in a general sense ( as in nothing to do with race however individuals are prone to be violent or non violent for example under the same environment) . I am Australian so naturally I will portray and suggest in a general sense to follow our way because it's successful, I am not naive however that getting from high levels of corruption to low levels and having the confidence to deal with outsiders without unreasonable suspicion is difficult in a country like yours. China loves this situation especially in the context of the Philippines due to it's bad transition from a colony to independence. It would be extremely hard , probably impossible for me and you to view things the same way due to our different environment and country's history. Ex British colonies have done better on average because the English learnt how to treat people better in a relative sense than other colonial powers and in most but not all there was a peaceful transition to independence and leaving reasonable government systems in place and a degree of ongoing support and diplomatic engagement. Not all commonwealth countries have succeeded of course but on average they are doing far better than other ex European colonies. The Philippines would be better off getting closer to Singapore, Australia and New Zealand especially on trade issues. Philippines hasn't joined the CPTPP despite there being no threatening country (US or China in the Philippines context) involved, so why not?
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  5855. @Stuart Hawkins Better to look at NSW and Queensland, why look at a country that had an easier task overall than these 2 states. Taiwan people clearly don't travel much because they had only about half the imported cases of Queensland, we also have a more open border than Taiwan. Masks are the final line of defence after all else has failed. Lockdowns done properly do work, contact tracing does work. As far as a sort of endorsement for BLM by Victoria that was poor judgement. Every single jurisdiction other than NSW and ACT had a proper lockdown with varying degrees of a tough approach, a lockdown with an open border isn't a proper lockdown, Taiwan still has a closed border, no one enters without compulsory quarantine I believe, an approach similar to WA who I believe still requires 2 weeks mandatory quarantine for all and that's if they let you in. The failures to properly contact trace in Victoria don't negate the fact that lockdowns work, they just don't work if contact tracing doesn't work and the lockdown allows people to enter without quarantine. You know a person is doing 2 months jail in Queensland for holding 2 gatherings. Have you heard this case? So we do have a precedent in QLD for a like matter. The first breach was a fine, second breach court appearance and jail time. If Victoria had acted in the same manner give that lady a fine and order her to remove all posts and then if she doesn't or turns up to the protest put her in a court room would have been the Queensland approach I expect. You would note people are trying to escape Victoria and in some cases head to states not NSW or in other words more draconian states. NSW stopped the second BLM protest. Victoria it's a little different now because it appears nobody has made an application to protest, so 100% illegal as it always is without an application in any state in Australia or US. Victoria was similar to some US states in its approach. Changing course because of government failures is the correct decision. A tough and effective approach in the beginning would have worked, Victoria only introduced decent fines recently not like draconian QLD who did it a long time ago and is now hosting the AFL. The person doing the jail time relates to an offence in April. NSW has had more failures than QLD but still looks good compared to VIC.
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  5973. @counselthyself I am not particularly arguing whether it will or won't be endemic, just that it's a political issue, Western Pacific WHO countries all have 14 days mandatory enforced quarantine, so yes politically on this issue China, Japan , Australia and Papua New Guinea are closely aligned , ignore other geopolitical issues. The US or PAHO Pan-American Health Organization area and European WHO region are closely aligned, So, Brazil, US , France and Mexico are all closely aligned on this issue , no closed borders just 10 days voluntary quarantine will do, internally France is now as strict as even Melbourne was during their crisis or similar at least but I would bet you the airport is still open and voluntary 10 days quarantine is still in place and anyone with money can just go elsewhere in Europe with no lockdown. So I think can go either way , the other WHO health regions are somewhere between the above mentioned regions, politically in the end will China and Australia for example say we must accept the Euro and Pan American disease which is what it now is or will it go the other way and they finally they decide better to not keep the disease. Of course I am Australian I want your regions to tow the line and not accept another new virus becomes equivalent of the flu but probably worse because like you say the mutations that might be far worse than currently, the UK strain isn't the original virus, far more infectious, about half of all quarantine breaches in Australia were this strain despite it not being around for long and it seems a little more deadly especially for younger people, however the good news is the vaccines are still highly effective against it , but a little less so than the original strain.
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  6133. Unfortunately your country is the furthest behind or in front depending on perspective on this issue in the world. It's literally destroying large parts of your society. The BLM protests and counter protests where people were literally killing each other. There were what can mostly be described as copycat protests around the world and to give an example in my country Australia it was estimated that about 70,000 people attending a protest day around the country, to do with indigenous people and the protests were all based on individual issues in the state they were protesting in. The 2 incidents that occurred were someone put an Aboriginal flag sticker on a police station so technically vandalism (nothing was done , I guess they pulled it off after the protestors moved on) and 2 people were pepper sprayed in a train station on the way home , that's it that I ever heard of. Other than those 2 extremely minor incidents nothing it was all peaceful. No idea how you can move forward but having functional government would help with a consistent welfare safety net and universal healthcare, get everyone the basics and it doesn't have to cost more, the public universal healthcare system in Australia is cheaper than the government funded healthcare system the US has and we have about 5 years extra life expectancy now, China is only 2 years behind the US in life expectancy, they will overtake you soon. Enough of my rambling and hope I didn't offend you because you seem like a decent person.
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  6357.  Matt Darrington  Your words are very concerning, as in I am concerned for your personal well being, I did look up that person you mentioned and he is a nutter. He's one of these people who hate success, he literally seems to think we should just go down the infection path like the US and kill 30,000 people to protect protect freedoms. The Australian Prime Minister has an approval rating over 60% . My state government in Queensland Australia had a 70% plus approval rating for it's handling of covid 19 , 6 deaths in a population of 5,000,000 and about 450 cases of community transmission. Australia isn't going to listen to the guy you mentioned , he is just a fringe conspiracy theorist, however got enough support to start a political party which is 500 members in any state to register in that particular state. If Trump had behaved like the Australian Prime Minister and protected lives and not tried to protect corporations and the freedoms of the wealthy he would be the most popular president at least since Reagan but he chose a different path and that's on him. When nothing happens on January 20 don't harm yourself and seek help if needed. Having such a belief can be very harmful when it's proven to be untrue. The US public has demonstrated at this point in time with all the military on the streets and the majority seem completely ok with this, that they would have been capable of a success with covid 19 restrictions required just like Australia if the correct leadership was in place. Trump let the virus spread to every major state and territory without any actions to stop it other than warp speed vaccines which isn't going as well as expected. Best of luck and take care.
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  6427.  @cloudpoint0  We don't seem to intrinsically disagree but you are coming from a very different viewpoint. You are coming from a point of view of failure, I am coming from a point of view of success. Would you make the call in South Australia that masks don't need to be worn knowing that you don't know if cases are out there and we will assume that masks are only 1% effective? Your gamble is a little inconvenience for the population noting everything is open versus if you are unlucky a $1 billion week long lockdown that could last week's costing many more billions and you might be voted out next election due to your failure. Yes open border no quarantine jurisdictions masks make almost no difference, Australia doesn't fit into that category, most states everything open with no cases and people are happy about that. But the 2 most populous states making up over half the population are having problems. Consider the vaccination rates are less than Mississippi at the moment and look at them. I expect we will end up with high vaccination rates but the paradox of success is vaccination rollouts are harder, nothing like the smell of death is as good a convincer of urgency. In relation to your mask comments regarding places that have failed and the misleading information of masks will stop the spread , well failures tend to stack up like you said and the easy political fix is pretend something. This isn't the case in Australia or as you mentioned China, masks are only one small tool when required, noting we have had mask mandates much less often than the open border countries anyway.
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  6557.  @SGI999  You claim to be a constitutional lawyer and know that all vaccine mandates go against the constitution, well it could come down to one's job type and whether or not it's reasonable. My feeling is health workers have 0 chance of winning their case however others might have a chance in some circumstances as in it's not reasonable. If people are employed by the government then my guess they don't have a good chance. You're complaining about New South Wales government from what I understand and about historical things a few months ago. You also complaining about inflation, housing is the biggest cost in Sydney if you live there, move if you don't like it. There's plenty of food on shelves so you must be well off and complaining about not getting your favourite cut of meat or that if you like beef that's gone up a bit which is great , that means Australia is exporting more at a higher price, unless you want communism or to stop farmers selling to the highest bidder that's how it is for an international commodity. So I don't understand your concerns at all, only that you're scared of taking a vaccine. Omicron is the best thing that could ever happen, it gets things over with quickly and the Chief Health Officer in Queensland said in the most recent press conference that things are looking good and the cases are a massive undercount. He said they were cautious in saying anything up to now because QLD had 0 cases of natural infection so couldn't compare to other jurisdictions, however it's turning out ok, the vaccines are doing their job. NSW has peaked and QLD as a whole is about 2 weeks behind is the estimate. Cases are going down in your state cheer up a bit, doesn't mean it's over but it's probably on the way to being over, schools might be an issue we have to wait and see if the unions want to shut them when there's outbreaks or alternatively teachers required to stay home and quarantine when infected. My feeling is Australia as a whole will have less problems keeping schools open than say a country like the US. Australia having less than 10% of the deaths of European countries and the US is a good thing isn't it and you say vaccines might not be working but clearly they are in stopping severe illness and death. I understand your feelings towards your state government but NSW isn't Australia despite how our PM talks sometimes.
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  6575.  @tuck295q  you don't understand , look at the US if you want to see the difference. Why is the US public service so useless? Could it be because of the leadership. Currently Thailand is potentially on a knife edge if covid 19 breaks out in protests because would they stop protesting if required. People often don't appreciate what they have because it's not perfect or until it's gone. All government leaders said or did things that look stupid in retrospect regarding covid 19 with the possible exceptions of Taiwan and Vietnam. The government is in power and could have behaved like most European governments and US government did. I do understand the issues in Thailand regarding at what stage your democracy is at. Having things change slowly I would suggest is not a bad thing. Although there is certainly issues your current king doesn't really want to be involved with politics which is good but the change might be rocky. If what is happening now , happened 30 years ago in Thailand as you know bullets would already be flying. I hope this doesn't happen but it's not impossible. Transitioning from the previous kings idea to the likely path of the current king is uncomfortable for some. I know the biggest issues for many Thai is the current kings behaviour is not "king like" however in the scheme of things this isn't a big problem. I think in 10 or 20 years Thailand will have a constitutional democracy more similar to a country like England where the monarch and privy council are pretty much symbolic from.my understanding.
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  6576.  @tuck295q  I actually looked up USAID and what you are referring to was $4.2 million USD only, so a drop in the ocean, total aid was at $78 million of this the 2 main programs at about $10,000,000 each was for Burmese or Myanmar refugees and some military thing. I am not arguing Thailand is perfect or anything but just be a little more patient and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Of course I hope things resolve peacefully and the constitution doesn't have the upper house controlled by the military anymore. As far as the institution of the palace , that's a hard one because while I might think it should be less involved do Thai people overall want that? Also what is your opinion on the Royal Projects which is funded by government but run independently of government. I did find out about probably the most contentious issue and that's the king having direct control over property such as palaces and in theory that he could actually sell them off or leave them to whoever he wanted to in his will. The amount the government is giving the monarchy does seem excessive but might not be and it lacks any transparency what it is for. As far as assets that could be considered private property it's sort of a mess and having finance ministers previously manage them is no different to now because either way conflicts of interest can be argued. However the tax now paid by the king on investments would be significant which is a plus I guess. Whether or not it's a good idea for the king to declare publically that income or not , I don't know and it has never been declared before under any king. Anyway best of luck and hope all goes well. I do have some money in the Thai stock market but haven't followed it for ages and my gf actually is in the military and fairly high rank , involved in the medical field. That's how I know some things. The difference between US and Thai government system is one is a Federation and one a central government, the overarching system in the US and Australia is the same, state governments deal with health and therefore the operational part of dealing with covid 19. Enjoy the end of your weekend. I hope both our countries stay covid 19 free.
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  6584.  @Midwit_Madness  there have been 3 states transport patients outside of their states , this is just my memory so could be wrong Alabama, Mississippi and might be Arizona. Transported intrastate El Paso and somewhere in Southern California. If you mean local authorities which should not be the main ones running the response it should be the states you are correct in that the majority of large cities are Democrat run, stopping spread in a large city is far more difficult than small cities or rural areas so obviously that will occur. In Australia at the moment all but 2 states are covid 19 free other than imported cases. There is 2 states with less than 10 cases a day total so probably soon country of 25,000,000 covid 19 free , just to pre-empt your next comment Australia is slightly more urbanized than the US we aren't spread throughout the desert. Now Australia's worst state for per capita deaths has done better than the best performing state or major US territory. Some states must be run by Republicans I guess even though you think the virus has gone political, evidence would suggest otherwise. Trump runs the country he is the government due to your system of government he chooses and commands all the secretaries normally called ministers elsewhere, so the people running government are actually unelected. Maybe that system should be looked into, a president is a bit like an elected king. Trump was creating a "better" economy by tax cuts to corporations and running up debt and that's before covid 19. A lot of business was created under Trump's watch through government spending or in other words socialist policies, now due to government failures drug companies etc. have plenty of customers and PPE manufacturers. I will be curious to see the ratings for the economic freedom index by the Heritage Foundation next year. It's is a pretty good guide for how socialist a country is. As a Republican you must be disappointed that the US is low functioning for a limited socialist economy.
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  6636. History could suggest the US might have reached a current trajectory of continuous relative decline, both sides of US politics are digging a deeper hole for disfunctional government. Trump's economic boom was government debt funded and never last forever. Social stability in the US is by countries of a similar wealth non existent, homicide rate of 5 or more times per capita than Western European and Wealthy Western Pacific countries. While Biden might be ok in 4 years all the structural problems of the US will still exist so it certainly isn't a given, Americans have an extremely high tolerance for forgiving anything, just like people in a poor corrupt country who think no choice/hope. 4 years people will have forgotten about January 6 event, almost a given there will be riots with killings somewhere during Biden's term and or domestic terrorist attacks. I hope for your sake Trump doesn't come back and both political parties consider moving away from the current non free market capitalist approach and towards limited socialism for those in need and not corporations. Per capita you are a very wealthy country just above Australia on paper but it's poorly distributed due to socialism for the wealthy or in other words corporate subsidies for chosen ones. The median wealth of an adults according to Credit Suisse in 2019 and can be found on wikipedia was about $69,000 for US and $181,000 for Australia, quite a large difference. Also look at Australia versus US on the economic freedom index, which is a reasonable measure of how capitalist a country is , so don't blame capitalism, blame your type of socialism.
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  6674.  Blue Butterfly  you are just wrong about a few things, quarantine zones even for humans have been found to be constitutional by the high court challenge Clive Palmer versus the state of Western Australia. The only real challenge was the action reasonable under such circumstances. Victoria and New South Wales had an open border policy so a different approach in the beginning. Victoria also had extremely small fines by national standards until lockdown mark II. Victoria opened up a little more quickly than QLD which moved mainly because NSW did. The quarantine breach was not the primary cause of things getting out of control in Victoria, in fact the worst quarantine failure was in NSW with the cruise ship. Victoria's main failure was to contain the outbreak. Queensland had and equally bad quarantine failure to VIC with those girls that decided to go to VIC then sneak back in via NSW by lying about where they had been( court case slated for Monday 28 Sep with a maximum penalty of 5 years if found guilty). That quarantine breach only spread to 50 people or so. The single quarantine breach in Victoria caused 95% of the cases for the " second wave" and they know . If you are Victorian hang in there and do the right thing, a so far worst case scenario would be continous lockdown measures much worse than any state in Australia other than travel restrictions and 10,000 dead Victorians. This is approximately the New York situation adjusting for population of Victoria. The inconveniences which I acknowledge are major in Victoria is better than continuous lockdown lite and 1,000s of dead people in my opinion.
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  6739.  @Gasanwu  As an Australian I am not too concerned with the goings on, it's rather ironic at the same time we are having a "trade war" we sign RCEP and hope for ratification by the end of next year according to our government website. I suspect some issues are cultural and China over reacts and gets offended about literally anything. In my region or in particular ASEAN countries the US has been non interventionist for a long time, I suspect it's sort of designated as Australia's area of responsibility and we are different to the US, the most obvious example is Australia and New Zealand restored diplomatic relations with Vietnam in 1975, the US it was 1995, it's a bit like the US are poor losers and don't move on. I personally completely disagree with trade sanctions because it inevitably empowers any dictatorship by creating a common enemy and makes the normal people poorer, regimes are almost exclusively overthrown by the middle class not poor people. So keep everyone poor you will ensure the dictatorship survives. As bad as human rights are currently in China it's still a massive improvement on 30 years ago when they started to open to the world in ernest. I do think that a country like Australia should still point out what we consider wrong , it is important but no trade sanctions etc. Australia is very much a free trade country, see our rating on the Economic Freedom Index by Heritage Foundation. China has used this type of behaviour with other countries, can't remember the reason but they were annoyed with South Korea about something so China stopped all tourists going there which of course causes a significant shock. That's the aim here hurt us so we tow the line, however other than possibly the delivery of the message there is no difference in policy between the government and opposition parties and that applies to trade also.
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  6783.  @klonowskierklartrohrleitun4241  I agree with your last point that most European countries including UK seem hellbent on proving how free they are with freedom of movement, overcompensating I think for what they know should be done. The UK has however recently moved towards the Australian way but it's possibly counterproductive, giving people 2 weeks warning that a new restriction is going to be imposed means there is probably a rush back to the UK from countries like South Africa, no direct flights but that's meaningless, yesterday I checked where South Africa international flights go and one was Doha and plenty of flights from Doha to London. I just hope these vaccines work because it's actually the only real plan for many countries. On vaccine rollout I think the UK has the best strategy and that's one thing they do seem to have got right, in the US in many states it's a dog eat dog situation to get a vaccine, calling hours and days on end to get an appointment or with other states join a queue for 5 hours and hope the vaccines don't run out before reaching the front, the most vulnerable can't get the vaccine in the second case unless they are in a nursing home because queuing up like that would be too much. The best way to have a compliant population is to show success, if the government keeps failing people reduce their compliance and start protesting including in Melbourne but they did manage to deal with them and actually even they protested mostly they wore masks and socially distanced because they didn't want fines.
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  6834.  Hillary  What are you talking about, everyone new the virus was outside China in multiple countries on January 21 so they can't hide that. Most rich countries carried out evacuation flights towards the end of January and in February , are you seriously suggesting China should have detained US , UK and Australian citizens which would have made no difference at all because it was already out. If you are from the US you should hang your head in shame because you were not willing as a country to do anything other than watch it spread to every state and territory to the point of killing rural populations like in South Dakota. Wake up to yourself, your country failed. I am Australian and it's unfortunate China is behaving like Trump on trade issues. In part it is probably to do with what you say however the US set the standard and on barley when China imposed ridiculous tariffs the US promptly made a deal with China to be the preferred supplier as stated on a US gov website. On trade the US under Trump is certainly not a friend of Australia. China did lock down all provinces in March some time from memory to get rid of the virus which had spread throughout China meanwhile after a 2 week pretend lockdown in the US the president is saying Liberate ( has a connotation of armed conflict) pretty much every Democrat run state. The transparency from China is not ideal it's as bad as the US with Trump taped in early February by Bob Woodward knowing the threat yet he told the public the opposite and whoever else was involved didn't speak out also.
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  6901.  @wurzelbert84wucher5  you are viewing things in a simplistic manner, if the number of cases go up the hospitals have to cut back on regular services and those vulnerable people you seem concerned about die from other causes. There is society to consider also and young people sometimes with no apparent health issues die too, this affects people. I live in a covid 19 free state in Australia and I can assure you the vast majority are happy about this as in we don't want to be like our neighbouring state in lockdown, Australia is way less vaccinated and we seem to run a fairly lean health system so hospitals overflow quickly and outbreaks happen in hospitals killing the vulnerable too, Australian states have been 100% open about events occuring unlike most of the world where such tracing mostly isn't occurring and in the rare circumstances it is, it is being covered up, the US stands out for this practice, 600,000 dead yet not a single case of people catching the virus in hospital has been reported in the media. I think the full openness of Australia helps most people understand what is occurring. Such openness would have been helpful in other countries but now too late. In the US hospitals are overflowing in many states and a lot of medical staff are quitting so yet another problem from leaving cases out of control. Right now maybe the best policy in Germany might be when hospitals fill up we will preference vaccinated people and people in hospital for other reasons unvaccinated covid 19 patients will be put at the back of the queue and may not receive the best medical treatment under such circumstances, blunt reality might work.
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  6907. Republic versus monarchy indicates who the head of state is and nothing else. Whether a country is a current democracy depends how the government came to be, if Trump somehow hung onto power the US would not be a democracy for however long a period that lasted. How a democracy elects people is largely irrelevant. Australia is a constitutional monarchy, eg we have a Queen but we are certainly a democracy but with very significant differences in the operation of the government and all members of the government including executive positions are held by elected officials but the ruling party selects from within it's elected officials who does what. The Queen and the governor general or Queens representative do very little even though technically they have veto power for example under normal circumstances, about 50 years ago the opposition party held the senate and cut funding to the government which led to the Prime Minister being sacked and an election called, since that occured both parties have guaranteed they won't do that move again but of course that is a gentleman s agreement, Trump would do it for sure. A lot of things are held together by convention only not law as is the case everywhere. The US has one person the president who is head of state and the leader of the government and selects the entire executive government which is unelected. North Korea is officially a Republic but I would suggest in practice a monarchy and technically a democracy but one that doesn't really allow opposition parties.
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  6937. It comes from propaganda actually, the US is the second best propaganda machine in history behind the CPC Communist Party of China. Once you teach your population that they are superior and that they shouldn't look outside their own country or compare to anyone else because they are already superior. China does this too but with a very distinct racial element but they are as the US was before it got superpower status still looking outside at the previous superpower , the UK and trying to be better. China only looks at the US and considers all other countries in the world inferior and the US to be inferior in certain respects. In any other wealthy country in the world there would be a bipartisan action to call for immediate action on what's failing and statistics which are terrible when judged against peers being other wealthy nations. 6 times the homicide rate compared to all other wealthy nations except Canada which is only a third of the homicide rate of the US. The lowest life expectancy of a wealthy nation with the highest overall healthcare costs to go with it. The US is about 5 years behind Australia in life expectancy and a little under 2 years ahead of China as of 2019 according to UN calculation. CNN did a report saying that life expectancy in the US had dropped by 1 and a half years over the course of 2020 because of the pandemic [response] , if this is true it's possible China now has a higher life expectancy than the US. If the general populous of the US could stop thinking because of brainwashing that you are exceptional maybe things could improve because no country would want to accept being on the bottom compared to it's peers.
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  6977. @David WP Are those people dead? Then no because if they ended up in hospital in the trial they would have had 100 tests run on them and if they subsequently died their cause of death would be known with a high degree of certainty. It amazes me you seem to care more for the dead than the living. Now that testing is widely available and most covid 19 deaths have occured in the last 6 months the total death numbers will be reasonably accurate. An accuracy rate of plus or minus 20% would be fine , it would change no decisions. You can also compare data with accurate jurisdictions like Australia , Japan , South Korea etc. and see if anything stands out and probably suspected covid 19 deaths in New York and London early on would be over counted because of dealing with people already dead inside a residence or on the street. And so what if a few deaths are counted as suspected covid when it was diabetes or heart disease, the 2 lockdown killers in Australia responsible for about 1,000 excess deaths in a population of 25,000,000. So someone could probably do some adjustments and it will change nothing. I know that the lockdown was responsible for the excess deaths because ABS ( Australian Bureau of Statistics) had a graph for the first 6 months of last year and it clearly showed excess deaths in March/ April then reverting to below expected again. If the UK adjusted just using gross Australian data if the same spike is not apparent in the UK it can only bring the suspected deaths number down 3,000 which is very low and changes nothing, it would be nothing more than an academic exercise. As far as sky News Australia suggesting we should kill 30,000 people and be like Sweden which they often promoted previously , well although some supporters of that do exist it's not really a popular idea, we don't see people flowing out of Australia to go to partial lockdown countries with mostly freedom to travel, in fact we see those countries with high freedom of international travel reconsidering their position as the body count increases.
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  6992.  @hotbit7327  Then look at Victoria Australia, the lockdown was in winter and now just coming into Spring but the drops in cases occured at a consistent rate during the winter part of the lockdown. So that can't be down to summer weather, also other jurisdictions at around the same latitude no out of control outbreaks. Proper lockdown plus testing and tracing works it is undisputable. Every lockdown jurisdiction has far lower cases. You might incorrectly argue that how about Queensland Australia or New Zealand etc. which currently have overall much lower restrictions than Sweden, travel being the exception, well if the virus is contained then restrictions don't have to be harsh other than travel restrictions to reduce the chance of the virus entering and getting out of control. Soft lockdowns only reduce the rate of the spread, the UK has only ever had a soft lockdown with voluntary travel restrictions to this day. The UK has not considered containment to this day so to say containment can't work if it was never attempted and a soft lockdown which allows the virus to spread is I guess a self fulfilling prophecy. You can say 'til the cows come home look these UK measures haven't worked and you are correct but you are not because working means only slowing the rate of spread not attempting to contain and stop spread. I do sort of agree a soft lockdown achieves very little so maybe if you go down that path might as well make it super soft and tell the public directly we are going to allow a certain number of deaths because they can be sacrificed for the good of the collective society.
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  7058.  @cinderelladevil1687  If you mean May 2021 I understand but if you mean May 2020 then why did your economy plummet by 11% in 2020 and a government deficit of about 11%. I realise it's not fair to compare Australia to Spain in some respects however the Australian economy dropped only 1.1% in 2020 and a government deficit of about 7.5%. Australia will be slower to open up and our economic growth , lack there of will be greater than Spain this year I expect but nothing we can do about it , our vaccination rate won't equal yours until the end of the year or maybe early next year. Queensland can't open it's border to infected people it would be a disaster and we are all open now anyway except for travel and yes effects inbound tourism and this is where Australia differs a lot we are an importer of tourism as in Australian spend more overseas normally than our inbound tourists so the closed border at the country level at least assisted in increasing our trade surplus. Obviously we are opposite season so things even in the states that have covid 19 in them should continue to improve as vaccinations go up and the weather keeps getting warmer. We are yet to see what happens this winter in Europe and Spain should be ok actually because not a very cold place and high vaccination rates. The US isn't looking great though because they are slow to get vaccination rates up. You're convinced Spain did a great job and Sweden even better, I don't agree, better than the US certainly but still not great. In Australia's case I think most states have done an excellent job with a couple that have done an ok job but still kept loss of life low. Your point that Spain has an older population is neither here nor there, deaths per million from covid 19 in Australia is 41 and Spain 1800 , clearly these numbers can't be accounted for by the older population. In the end if you are happy with your government then great but allow others to also be happy with there's without disregarding that person just because you don't agree. My government hasn't lied to me , the deaths show this and other effects are no greater than in lockdown lite countries and economic impact on average has been less in countries that have lockdowns including border quarantine versus lockdown lite. As far as the current situation yes Spain seems ok but not every country can be in that position and culturally as you can see with the US vaccine hesitancy they will continue to have significant problems. Anyway wish you the best.
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  7204.  @chg1264  In the middle of February Tedros said the time for containment is now. Can't get much stronger than that and broadly speaking Europe and the Americas did nothing for an entire year and a half, just waited for the quick fix of vaccines. Nowhere had compulsory quarantine just voluntary schemes, don't blame the failures in policy of the various WHO regions on the WHO, as a person in the Western Pacific WHO region where the hardest line was taken and everyone in the region all 27 countries had border quarantine usually hotel and enforced. The Americas and Europe never went beyond voluntary compliance which completely failed. Africa and South East Asian region (South Asia plus half of South East Asia approximately) weren't as tough as Western Pacific region but still got comparatively good results compared to do nothing. The Eastern Mediterranean region which is basically the middle east I am uncertain of and haven't looked into it. Italy had a chance of elimination but never did it. With Delta the game has changed however and for some countries that were perfectly capable of containment with previous variants under the existing policies failed including 2 states in my country Australia and countries like Vietnam and New Zealand which previously had a very good record. I hope there is discussion about what was the best regional policy and I think it's my region and the open borders no quarantine regions should reconsider what they do next time but they were more concerned about freedom to travel and no lockdowns until hospitals overwhelmed than anything else. Is it possible that those 2 regions will ever admit they got it wrong, my cynical opinion says no they won't and geopolitically the Western Pacific region is far from a united grouping, Australia has been declared the enemy by China so even though essentially we took the same approach on the matter we don't want to give each other credit at the political level, behind the scenes though I think there's a very high level of cooperation throughout the region, contact tracing is truly international here although that will probably fade away slowly as countries "live with the virus".
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  7227.  @histochronos  I am not suggesting slavery is going to reoccur in the conquered or colonial territories. The problem with Thailand is Siam the elite which includes the protestors against the king/military government will never have power how they want it, they are a minority who has benefited greatly from colonialism. Another problem is the military is less corrupt than civilian governments. Thailand certainly has corruption that it seems won't go away but it is reducing. I can't speak about the prior situation but former Prime Minister Thaksin was found to be corrupt from a land deal and it was blatent actually. How Thai politics works or at least did 15 years ago you just go and hand out cash to poor people in Isaan mostly but other poor areas too to buy votes and it worked and I would suggest would still work today, the population of Isan is about the same as central Thailand so central Thailand can never win if it's contended between them and rest of the country. There was and still is racism towards the people of Isan although it would seem to be reducing. It's hard to know what will happen and the current king should hand over the palaces in particular to the government to be held in trust. The biggest issue I see is the Palace and military who are closely connected won't let things fail under an elected government, so they won't give up power. If you accept democracy you have to also accept democracy can destroy a country through it's policies. Philippines is a democracy that by all accounts actually functioned as one and democracy doesn't prevent a dictatorship or reduce corruption as has happened in many countries including there. The average wealth of someone in the Philippines is half that of Thailand. Democracy is a luxury in a way and if functional certainly produces the best results but a reasonably functional very limited democracy like Thailand beats a more democratic country like the Philippines. Obviously don't know what's going to happen in the future but a highly functional democracy in Thailand is still a long way off. As you can see with the US it's about everyone accepting results and nobody accepting a dictatorship which is actually very difficult, when times get tough people often look towards a dictator because it's at least in their perception better than what they have got. Of course I hope things do get better in Thailand and freedoms increase and a more functional and true democracy , however if it moves too quickly it will fail because need everyone to agree and it needs to be functional.
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  7253.  @kommisar.  I didn't say Australia has no corporate welfare, just that it's much less than the US. I do however argue that non free trade is a socialist action as an example. In effect you are being forced to buy American products in some cases that are inferior or more expensive or buy imported with a massive tax on it and yes before you have a go at me Australia does it too but to a far lessor extent. If you look at the Economic Freedom Index by Heritage Foundation Australia ranks 12 at this point in time and the US 25, although it's not a pure measure of socialism because it includes things such as judicial effectiveness and government integrity (corruption) it's a pretty good guide to how socialist a country is, on trade freedom Australia gets a score of 90 out of 100 which appears to be equal second best in the world behind Singapore getting a score of 95 and the US with a score of 75. You seem to think socialism and communism are the same thing but they aren't and socialism regardless of how it's carried out is government control in what is produced although it can't be measured in many cases. Why should you have to buy American if you don't want to at least on a personal level. Maybe those people in the US logging lumber due to the US import duty of 17% on Canadian softwood lumber would be doing something more economically productive. Free trade in everything but labor is a great thing in my opinion, self sufficiency as professed by Xi of China or Biden or Trump which obviously involves significant socialism isn't a good thing in my opinion. Not all welfare is bad and as previously stated limited socialism is a good thing, even from a cold hearted pragmatic view if you don't feed the unemployed they will steal stuff and then you need to imprison them for a far higher cost than just giving them food in the first place.
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  7285.  @margaretliu3409  You're just a pro masker. Masks are last line of defence to slow not stop spread when all else has failed at the population level. All states of Australia plus New Zealand except for New South Wales and Victoria got to 0 cases without any mask mandate, just a request if you are feeling a bit sick then wear one. If you compare my state of Queensland to Taiwan they are very similar, slightly more imported cases into Queensland and it did spread a little bit last year so lockdown was about 8 weeks versus 3 weeks for Taiwan, the Taiwanese still had a mask mandate 100 days after their last case of community transmission, that's like protecting yourself from mosquito in Antarctica, pretty pointless actually and achieved nothing because you can't catch something that isn't around. I am not an antimasker but pro maskers are problematic also because masks don't perform magic and can't stop spread, lockdowns as required plus contact tracing plus border quarantine do and masks add a tiny bit to those main control methods. I guess you talking from the UK which has had an open border the entire time and only self quarantine where you can catch public transport to your destination and stay with family or friends who have no restrictions whatsoever which is only designed to slow spread so technically not even quarantine. Anyway best of luck where ever you are , the only thing that will stop spread is vaccinations because with no border quarantine cases will be coming in for years.
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  7633.  @breakthroughchiropracticcl3526  Well the most compelling evidence is the consistency of approach by WHO region and consistency of outcome up until the last few months with the new more contagious variants. The entire Western Pacific WHO region has mandatory enforced usually hotel quarantine for all international arrivals and as pointed out in another comment SARS affected our region significantly at the time with tourism so some preparedness because of that. 3 of the toughest quarantine countries in the world are in our region , Japan, Australia and New Zealand so we take quarantine very seriously and have systems in place. The most compelling despite all that I just said is actually the fact that countries such as Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam that were doing as well as others in our general region (Thailand and Malaysia are in South East Asia WHO region which tended to have shorter mandatory quarantine) have completely failed. Sydney is now experiencing great difficulties due to the Delta variant with about 100 cases a day and they have the hardest lockdown in that state excluding the initial lockdown from over a year ago. The other aspect look at the diversity in our WHO region , China, Vietnam, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Australia , New Zealand, The Philippines and Papua New Guinea along with a lot of small Pacific nations. Collectively we have nothing in common except our overall response particularly with borders. I have raved on for a bit , up to you to consider what I have said.
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  7739.  @Icecream_ghost  The biggest problem with the new CDC study is it's time constrained as in 90% of those with previous infections had them in the preceding year and it was with Delta variant and we know that catching Omicron is far easier for everyone although less deadly by about 70% it would seem so far. The CDC recommends everyone over 6 months getting the flu vaccine every year and everyone catches the flu in their lives. Australia has the same recommendation but also has a strong recommendation for certain groups, below 5 and above 65 if by age and of course healthcare workers, more vulnerable people etc. Everyone saying that the next variant will be less deadly is just parroting a proven to be flawed theory, if that was the case the flu could kill nobody and there wouldn't be such a thing as a bad flu year because it's been around for 1000s of years, the 1918 flu pandemic was in the end just a mutation coming from an animal they believe and many mammals can get covid 19. Of course I hope the next variant is less deadly and overall it should be due to natural immunity (the weakest and or unvaccinated dying off already and survivors getting increased immunity) and vaccinations but there's no guarantees. The US despite it's higher natural infection rates is having more deaths per Capita than Australia now with much higher vaccination rates but virtually no natural immunity. While our demographics are a little different, obesity rate about 35% in the US versus about 30% in Australia, they are fairly close (Japan has an obesity rate of 6% or so, Sweden 20% as examples). We will have to see what happens in 6 months and it's our winter, maybe things won't look so good then and that's why the US likes to compare to the UK which is doing better now because of their higher vaccination rates. Their demographics from previous infections is probably very similar to the US overall.
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  7770.  @ripvanwinkle4532  Constitutionally it's the same with Australia and the US and the non enforced voluntary quarantine is no different legally speaking than hotel quarantine. Australia's federal government has worked with the states and set the framework , most states were the ones to close borders to other infectious states, the federal government initially didn't want that, however has provided limited support with the military, unarmed but doing things like hotel quarantine, border checkpoints and in a couple of cases provided some medical personal which obviously is very limited. Lockdown lite is the worst of both worlds, destroys business and as many deaths anyway especially with the US policy, but to do absolutely nothing like that state I mentioned it would be even worse, at least poor people can't travel because no means and this probably reduces their deaths a little. If you were in Australia you would most likely be ok with restrictions because they get results, some people still nervous though and think we will fail but that's just a psychological condition without any real basis at this stage. Mentally I think you will find Australian or New Zealanders are doing better than people in US , UK and Canada where it never seems to end and vaccines are pretty much the eggs all in one basket approach, hopefully it works but it's not guaranteed. Anyway take care and personally speaking even it seems bad it would be good for the US to lockdown properly for 12 weeks and most states would be virus free or close to it, I doubt it will ever happen though with currently 0 states willing to close the borders.
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  7869.  @montoyali  You've been listening to Zhao Lijiang too much, the US doesn't force Australia to do anything. China fundamentally misunderstands Australia and is incapable at this point in time of understanding why we have the positions we do, they are used to dealing with poor and or corrupt nations which do to a large extent shut up and do as they are told. Australia is partly to blame too because we don't understand them but the person I mention above makes things impossible, he is doing damage to China's reputation around the world. Australia isn't the only country to effectively have trade sanctions but we have had the most and it's probably highest profile. Australia is an influence of calm in the region especially with Joe Biden at the helm in the US who will listen to Australia amongst others to a far higher degree than Trump who cares for no one. Consider Australian and New Zealand view towards Vietnam, we resumed diplomatic relations in 1975, the US took until 1995. Fundamentally nothing has changed and China choosing to bypass the entire region and say they only talk to the US is really damaging. On the Covid 19 issue it was decided by region actually or a remarkable coincidence, the Western Pacific region of WHO has 4 countries extremely closely aligned on the matter, China including Taiwan, Vietnam , Australia and New Zealand. I don't know what discussions went on and by which countries but we all agreed to 14 days mandatory enforced quarantine usually in a hotel, PAHO Pan-American Health Organization region and European region of WHO all agreed to 10 days voluntary quarantine and we can see the results is less than 5% deaths per capita in the Western Pacific region of WHO compared to the other 2 regions I mentioned. So behind the scenes you might find even Australia and China in full cooperation on the matter of the response.
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  7974.  @seanc3317  if you want to be honest then the first place to look is demographics, Texas median age 5 years below Michigan, Texas GDP per capita in 2019 about 20% above Michigan, life expectancy in Texas about 1 year longer than Michigan indicating better overall health of population. So quite likely demographics play the biggest role but this would need to be assessed by looking at every state and calculating out the demographic outcomes in the case of the US, Michigan based on 2010 data is actually 10% less urbanised than Texas which should favour a better outcome in Michigan actually. Weather also plays a part because of people's behaviour during different seasons can cause more variability in areas with more variable weather and possibly how buildings are built. So tell me what it means and how you are indoctrinated. You sound like you have studied all states and looked through all the demographic data and travel patterns of people considering all borders have always been open to non essential travel including the national one. As far as masks go they are only but a small factor in the scheme of things in a country that never really tried to stop spreading the virus. This doesn't mean masks achieve nothing but it could be close to nothing in a country which on every other measure has allowed the virus to spread rapidly and much of that with intent and sometimes just due to incompetent government (about 500 covid 19 tests by end of February 2020 in the US versus about 10,000 in Australia in the same time period, a factor of approximately 1 to 300 by population ). You think Texas is now a great success , good for you.
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  7989.  @BrianHolmes  I'll give you an example to ponder on. Look at the covi sars2 response in USA and Australia. Australia relied on the US and WHO primarily for information and advice on the beginning, on paper we did exactly the same thing until mid March. So why is it the per capita deaths are at this point in time in the US are 20 times that of Australia? We are both federations where the states run health. Think about that for a minute, not a single US governor had the courage to close a state border, in Australia 5 out of 8 major jurisdictions (4 states and a territory) closed their borders in quick succession. This is common sense, it's impossible to control a virus if you allow infected people to continually enter with no restrictions. The US completely failed at first detecting the virus and then at containment. Do you think your president would have behaved in the same manner if he was accountable to his colleagues? He is king , he chooses the membership of the unelected government (secretaries in the US and called ministers elsewhere) and can fire them at will meaning they will act in a less open manner than if power is more balanced. Donald Trump has in no uncertain terms pointed out the power of his position. The people of the US are just people, the failures are not because Americans are stupid but the system where in the president's case controls the entire government like a king is a little outdated. Change the constitution on not only this matter but others and the US can advance especially socially more quickly.
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  8007. Same with Australia but a significantly different result, not saying there isn't a problem but it's not what you identified. The UK it's divided into 4 jurisdictions, one for each country within the Kingdom. Within about 2 weeks of it getting serious in Australia last March sometime if my memory is correct , 5 out of 8 states and territories shut their borders with stricter controls in place than ever happened in Europe for goods movement, every company needed to come up with a covid safe plan and have it approved for each state they travel to and from if one of the closed border states as an example. Otherwise only essential travel unless exemption like urgent medical care or special border zone travel permits with certain states. If for essential travel 14 days mandatory enforced hotel quarantine at $2,800 for a single, extra 10 days if refused to get tested at extra cost ( Queenslands rules), the cost could be exempted on compassionate grounds, probably not the extra 10 days if anyone was stupid enough not to be tested. The actions taken by Australian states could have been done by all countries mentioned, but exactly 0 states/provinces/countries (in the case of UK) took these actions, seems your provincial governments are cowardly. It could be due to listening to PAHO your regional office of WHO, all countries in the Western Pacific region of WHO did the same as Australia around the same time, top 40 countries last time I looked were in the countries covered by PAHO and European region of WHO. Maybe it's total coincidence but I think not, your offices of WHO might be to blame but only people from your region running them, WHO as a whole shouldn't be blamed and I would suggest the Western Pacific WHO office has done a good job, behind the scenes outside of politics our diverse group of countries are probably cooperating quite well, China is in that WHO grouping.
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  8101.  @zeroneutral  in answer to your queries and assertions, the death numbers will be highly accurate in Taiwan, South Korea, Japan , Thailand, Australia and New Zealand because very low cases means other than at the beginning all suspicious deaths people will be tested and even the strain of the virus will be tested because unless it is through known contact they want to check it's not a new outbreak. The high case rate countries will be less accurate but I would suggest if they are a high income country then at least 95% plus accurate versus the low case countries being 99% on average more accurate, ( a case could always be missed and if deaths are really low percentage terms it could actually be less accurate). The hard lockdown as you put it in Australia is different state by state. Every state has some border restrictions and all but one state Victoria have very relaxed internal restrictions by world standards. I will give the travel restrictions of Queenslanders and it might amaze you. There is a border zone where residents of New South Wales and Queensland can cross the border after going through a Queensland checkpoint but must stay within the zone specified. If someone comes from New South Wales or Victoria and are not exempted like trucks for example or the border zone exemption. To travel into Queensland a Border pass (sort of like a visa) is required and you must declare where you have been for the previous 14 days and if you lie could be 6 months imprisonment. If you have been in Victoria or New South Wales in the last 14 days you need to be quarantined in a government supervised hotel at the cost of $2,800 AUD for a single, extra 10 days plus costs if you refuse to be tested. Other states people can enter without quarantine, however some states are a little tougher than Queensland. To give the most extreme example , to enter Western Australia basically you can't unless you are going there to live permanently or visit a very close relative or something. So sort of like a permanent resident visa I guess. Western Australia has virtually said to it's residents if you leave Western Australia and it isn't for essential travel you might not be permitted re entry. The example is they are being told they can't come to Queensland to see a football game because it's not essential. Western Australia of course has same quarantine procedure but not sure of cost. So travel restrictions in my opinion have gone a little crazy however I do agree with the rights of the states to do it. I think my state is about right with travel restrictions and sort middle of the road by Aussie standards at present.
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  8236.  Brit Mk 2  No, British people are just humans, if the government has a relaxed mitigation strategy why would the public take any notice. If they don't care ,why should I? To this day your government allows people to enter the country and go into what is effectively voluntary quarantine and if your quarantine site is in an English household the people you are potentially infecting are not required to quarantine. Look up your governments policy, it's a super relaxed approach of mitigation. It's much more difficult to cross state borders in Australia than it is national borders in Europe. Although unlikely a Victorian Australian can travel to England and undergo the quarantine procedures as I partially outlined by one example. If the Victorian was to travel to Queensland , 14 days mandatory government hotel quarantine with 2 tests to be done during your stay. You will be required to contribute costs for your stay which will be more expensive for one person $2,800 AUD than the £1,000 penalty if you get caught breaking the extremely relaxed quarantine procedures in England. If you refuse to be tested an extra 10 days in quarantine and I suspect more costly. Just a few days ago one person was sentenced to 2 months gaol because they broke the government orders in April on one day by throwing a party and got a $1,600 fine I think it was and then the next day did it again hence the prison sentence. The government is a function or representative of the people and visa versa. Going to school in Queensland hasn't been considered an issue recently, they will just shut an entire school down if it is found a person who tested positive has been there and everyone gets tested and reopen in once people have got the all clear, probably a week or 2 but I'm not sure. I wish you the best of luck and think you should just keep yourself family and friends as safe as you can, your government isn't going to protect you, they only care about hospitals overflowing in my opinion.
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  8239.  @sailaway8244  You have to realise that out of Australia and NZ there only 2 places with much tougher restrictions than the go to standard Sweden other than travel restrictions, that is Melbourne and Auckland, Aucklands current tougher measures will probably be down graded along with the rest of NZ in a week or 2. Melbourne has fairly tough restrictions at the moment and the rest of Victoria a little less, I think it could be another month or so for Victoria because many cases. It's only 1 jurisdiction but NZ has seen a small decrease in suicides, Australia it has apparently remained flat. If the great depression is anything to go by the by product of the economic downturn is likely to be increased life expectancy. I saw from a commenter but not official that hospitals in NZ are having less cases of food poisoning. In Australia the number of flu cases has dropped dramatically . You must factor in human behaviour which people are not doing and just applying a negative attitude to everything. Having parents stay home with kids has of course helped many families and brought them closer together and it has been said but only anecdotally that child abuse might have increased but actually no evidence at this point in time, only that it's a concern it might happen. So should that be looked into and monitored of course but don't jump the gun and just assume suicides and violence are going to increase. In uncertain times I would think people reduce risky behaviour but that's just my thought, all I have to go off is the years when the economy declined in the US during the great depression life expectancy rose. So I can't see why relatively short term economic decline in it of itself causes any long term harm overall. I don't think we are likely to agree, I think 10,000 dead Australians is a price too high and as far as ok protect them , nowhere other than Singapore has succeeded at this and pretty sure Australia and NZ we couldn't, our societies are not as compliant.
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  8341.  @charlesklempner8273  thanks for reply. I look at US politics because it fascinates me. We do have some of the same issues to the US regarding people s animosity to each other but we have a multi party system and not a 2 party system which allows for those on the extremes to join smaller political parties. This makes a difference I think because major parties don't have to have extreme policies in some cases. Both political groups have people not even willing to listen or consider alternative views and sorry to say it just act in anger which reduces those people's chance further of actually being listened to outside of the echo chamber. So I would encourage you to not throw insults if you want a chance to be listened to. When others do it to you it feels bad so why do it to others. I have thought a bit about what should the US do now , noting I haven't thought about that till now. Australia's situation at the moment is completely different so what I want for Australia is completely different to what I think the States within the US should do. Looking at the numbers I think most states should probably adopt the Swedish model now and due to political restraints I apply that thinking to all. Protect the vulnerable and continuous testing for hospital and aged care workers. If resources permit once an outbreak in either of these settings is confirmed replace the entire staff with people who it is believed don't have it. I do differ with mask wearing compared to the Swedish or Australian model because that is what US people want. If testing the groups mentioned above after that test others with flu like symptoms and 2 weeks enforceable quarantine in the case of a positive result to ensure hospitals are not over run. Best of luck anyway and I have no idea how but I hope the US becomes less divided.
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  8544.  @colinfraser8317  that would not be possible because official death totals are weeks or maybe a month in arrears. Even that 1800 number is not the standard ONS ( office of national statistics ) number from death certificates which is the normal official way. For highly accurate up to date death numbers regarding covid 19 you need to look at low case jurisdictions like Taiwan, South Korea, Japan , Australia , Singapore and New Zealand. When there are hundreds of deaths and this is prior to death certificates being counted with reasons for death being collated and not accurate. Low case countries can report the small number of cases real time. An overrun hospital the doctors care more for the living , that I would suggest is in part the large number at 6% of covid 19 deaths on the death certificates putting covid 19 only which is impossible I think because the virus causes a symptom that kills the person, people die of something, heart failure , suffocation due to pneumonia, blood clotting etc. But does a doctor care about investigation to have a complete death certificate if 10 patients waiting to get into intensive care as they cart out the dead bodies , probably not , covid 19 is good enough. Even you die from a gunshot wound the death certificate won't just say gunshot. It will tell the actual cause of death, like blood loss, or lungs filling with fluid, or brain stopping functioning because the bullet went straight into the brain etc. Covid 19 conspiracy theorist would declare that few murders occured because only in let's say 6% of the cases was gunshot listed as the only cause of death. A gunshot victim can die from a heart attack, it's a pretty stressful situation, the day I see someone get off by arguing they had a comorbidity and the gunshot didn't directly cause the death I will eat my words.
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  8558.  @buckcampbell4292  "the science" term is bandied about too much, most of the science is social science anyway. Fauci and Osterholm are both well intentioned but they disagree that's all. American scientists and doctors think the US has a mentally weak population that can't be restricted and or alternatively politicians will make things fail no matter what so best to offer advice based on this. Maybe offering advice based on the assumption of political disfunction inside the US was the right thing to do, can't really fix the inherent disfunction during a pandemic. Same applies to Europe especially the EU, maybe they all refused the idea of any significant border restrictions early on so scientist went with that, however my feeling is actually the scientists are a representation of there own population and believed what they were doing is best. If you look at the regional offices of the WHO the policies of countries very much line up with those regions. The Pan American Health Office looks after the Americas and almost all similar results and the European region split into 3 areas. The regional offices may have amplified general culture of the regions. The top 40 countries for deaths per million from covid 19 are in those two regions, South Africa is just outside the top 40. If you look at the world map color coded for this it's very obvious. The Western Pacific region, South East Asia region, Eastern Mediterranean region and African Region all much better. It might just be a correlation but I don't think so. I think the WHO region you are in almost determined your fate. All Western Pacific region countries have 14 days mandatory enforced quarantine usually by hotel. Not sure about South East Asian or Eastern Mediterranean or African regions but all of Europe region seems to have adopted 10 days self (voluntary) relaxed quarantine and same goes for the Pan American Health Organization area. If one is to be scientific, next time put the West Pacific WHO office in charge because we will do the job properly. The European and Pan American can just follow and do as they are told ,other areas can work with the West Pacific office. Not going to happen but the failures of the WHO seems to be mostly the regional offices and the countries representing those particular regional offices.
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  9100.  @mercedesb2299  unfortunately you are uninformed. The University of Texas has an affirmative action policy which I have to assume includes immigrants because poor English language is taken into account along with race and ethnicity. Search their website, they refer to affirmative action policies as UT Austin holistic review process. The other quota is set by a "Jim Crow " law as inferred by the original journalist who used the term. A Jim Crow law is to racially discriminate against black people by not directly discriminating but by chosing laws that affect certain populations more. These laws it can be argued are actually still in place regarding what is or isn't a felony. But how the state of Texas does it for universities is to accept the top 6% currently of highest performing students at any school. This is designed to discriminate in favour of uneducated people at useless schools which on average will contain more "minorities". Californian people will be voting in a referendum I guess at the same time as the presidential election to reintroduce affirmative action into places of education. Currently Harvard has been accused of creating an "Asian quota" which if true is affirmative action for white , black and Hispanics. Affirmative action of many groups would appear to be live and we'll. The worst thing is accepting poor academic performers into University of Texas is hurting the recipients. They are more likely to drop out or not make a career of it and end up with a massive debt they can't pay. I hope a victim comes forward and litigates against the university and government for accepting their money and enrollment in full knowledge this would hurt the recipient.
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