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N. Bruce Nelson
Two Bit da Vinci
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Comments by "N. Bruce Nelson" (@n.brucenelson5920) on "Two Bit da Vinci" channel.
They are moving much faster in a Covid and broken supply chain environment than Tesla did since their restart in 2019, and are likely to have production vehicles on the road before the Cybertruck appears, which was announced around the same time. The beta vehicles are on the road performing parts and performance validation testing and the factory is being built out to specs developed by Sandy Munro Associates.
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You need to look a bit more deeply into this. Prices start at $25,900. - before incentives. As far as safety goes - it has front and rear crumple zones, air bags, seat belts, a superior ABS/traction control system- and will be tested to US automotive safety standards.
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@nomercy4521 Actually it is an alpha model. The betas already have the redesigned and much improved suspension.
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Not confirmed - the alpha prototypes were using the Tesla connector likely because one of the founders has a Model S and they already had the charger. Production models are likely to have up to 4 charging sockets and adaptors, including Teslas'. Both companies have dropped hints about using the Tesla network, but no official announcements yet.
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Once V2G tech is available, EVs have the potential to shave around 30% from the peak loads seen by the grid. This could be a game changer.
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I have ordered the 40 kWh battery and full solar. Even in Iowa where we get a lot less sun, this will take care of my daily driving needs plus an occasional trip to Des Moines or Kansas City on solar alone.
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I had a ride in the 3rd alpha prototype, Luna. (the silver one) The Engineer driving took me through twisties at speed. She cornered flat, but was harsh on the bumps and there were clunks on potholes. Raush Performance has completely redone the suspension, adding a sway bar in the front and replacing the rear swing arm with a dual link. I hear the betas are much more compliant and even faster through the curves. I still expect the experience to be sports car like rather than econobox.
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There are 4 wheel vehicles on the way. The next planned vehicle may be a 5 passenger 4 seat sedan. I wouldn't be surprised to see an announcement as they head towards IPO.
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@oplkfdhgk Aptera and Tesla have been in talks about a number of matters including technology sharing for a long time, under NDA. The big issue I can see as a practical matter is the different stance on Right to Repair.
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The drive train works great right now. I had a ride in the Luna prototype and it was breathtaking. Cornering in the twisties was a revelation - flat and planted. The production model suspension has been reworked by Roush Performance, and will be much more compliant, and even faster in the corners.
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It is the shape that provides much of the performance. If you are looking for a two seater, why just waste your money pushing air out of the way?
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@Capturing-Memories Some people like to buy Hummers, too, but they scream "I don't know what I am doing with my money!".
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I currently drive a Gen 1 Honda Insight. My Aptera will exceed the performance in every respect, including safety. The crash test results will be released before shipping.
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I am located in Iowa where it is presently 1 degree above zero, and will be testing your supposition personally. The ABS/Traction control can sense slip and adjust torque 32 times per second. That is about 2.5" of tread travel on each driven wheel. This is far more sensitive than any other vehicle on the road. As far as expensive at $25,900 before incentives it is less expensive that almost anything you could name that has similar performance.
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Starting at $25,900 before incentives.
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Yes. Current models are compatible with 240 VAC power and RHD models are planned.
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The wait with this new, more capable design is likely to be much shorter. They learned their lesson about bringing in a Detroit "expert" and losing control of the company to him.
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What Jim is talking about is a legal fiction. Aptera will exceed almost every performance spec of my present 2 seat car, including payload capacity. The 100 watt hour per mile power capacity is not "fake" It is based on a worst case AWD model that will be much heavier than the 2WD model I have ordered. Jim can't even report the actual numbers Aptera claims properly. Why is that? Because his entire FUD is made up.
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@belovedrock. Great comment, but a correction. While the first Apteras will all come with an air conditioning compressor (technically a heat pump) transportation qualified reversing valves which allow the compressor to supply heat wont be available for the first production vehicles. You are correct about the body shell. It is a foam filled sandwich and the r value - which measures insulation performance - will be far higher than the typical vehicle, making the thermal load on the system far lower.
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@Roshiyu One place where it will be thoroughly tested is the Elaphe winter weather test track. We will have video after this occurs.
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I had a ride in the Luna (silver) prototype before Thanksgiving. Yes, in the alpha prototypes the ride is sportscar like and there is a lot of suspension noise. There are many changes already made in the betas they are testing now, including a much more compliant and quieter suspension. Along with making it smoother and quieter, they have also further improved the handling, and these are going to be a LOT of fun to drive- especially measured against any previous "economy" car.
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The front and rear sections of the vehicle are designed as crumple zones to absorb the energy of the impact and protect the passengers.
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Aptera is designed to operate in temperature conditions from -20 to 125 F. It has windshield wipers, AC and heating. Validation testing to insure this kind of performance is going on now with the betas. It also has perhaps the best traction control and ABS yet fitted to any vehicle - each driven wheel can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution - or about every 2.5" of tread travel. I expect to be able to do all season travel with mine in Iowa. I may add studded snow tires for the winter season, which are legal here.
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Good question, Aptera has been tested stable in 110 mph side winds. At forward speeds there is 25 lbs of downforce at rear of the vehicle at 65 mph, and this increases rapidly from there with increasing speed. It is far more stable in wind than the average slab sided SUV.
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Perhaps the alphas, but this has been fixed by the Roush Performance redesign that is seen in the betas.
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We only have estimates at this point, but with an excellent BMS system, it would not be surprising if the 2170 batteries Aptera is using will be good for 500,000 miles of use in the vehicle, and then have an extended life in building power backup.
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@markplott4820 We all notice that little of this relates to Aptera or your claim that Aptera is a fraud. Your misdirection is obvious.
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@markplott4820 FUD. The patent office thinks they do. Your second statement is completely meaningless. Why do you keep posting nonsense?
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@markplott4820 NOONE does this with an alpha prototype. They are obviously designed and will be tested to a far higher standard than any other 3 wheeler. Major investors, such as the Managing General Partner of Impala Ventures, a billion dollar plus firm consider it proven to their satisfaction and has joined the Aptera board. Again, I ask you, why the FUD?
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@markplott4820 It appears that you have been paying little attention. Aptera certainly has seat belts, air bags, significant engineered front and rear crumple zones, and an F1 style passenger safety cage. When the FMVSS section 200 crash test ratings become available, there could well be some surprises in store for you, but not to anyone actually following the engineering. You start with false premises and you get false conclusions.
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@markplott4820 Lol! More evidence of your complete disconnect from reality. One would think that someone so committed to posts regarding something he clearly knows nothing about would have done it least a little research. Aptera has everything you just claimed it lacks. In fact, the traction control and ABS are superior to anything else on the road. It can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution - or about 2.5 inches of tread travel. Nothing else on the road comes close to matching it.
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Airbags have been planned from the beginning, probably in the seat belts.
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@nickkacures2304 Yes, and Roush Performance as well as other experts with great experience, either as consultants, suppliers, or hires. I, like many of us, was a fan of ICE technology. However, I travelled the world for decades contributing to the problem as a by product of my jet travel, but I saw the changes in our climate taking place as a personal witness of them. It is amazing how quickly climate change is happening as well. I saw places that were pristine in the '70s become smog polluted messes. We have to change as quickly as we can.
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I will take delivery of one of the early Paradigm models (#42) for life in Iowa. The Aptera body is a foam filled composite sandwich and has a far higher r value than typical car bodies. A/C and heat are standard, and it will be spec'd and tested to perform and be comfortable from -20 to 125 F. The ABS/Traction control is superior to perhaps every other car on the road, being able to sense slip and adjust torque about every 2.5 inches of tread travel.
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RPM and range are not related this way. Gear boxes add friction and cut available range. This is one of the advantages of direct drive hub motors over geared motors.
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If you are designing new parts, and have to use both, it becomes quite clear which system is preferable to do creative work in. A space probe was lost due to a simple conversion mistake a few years back.
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I suspect that they have tested this and the turbulence induced probably increases drag. The present shape is carefully designed to produce 25 lbs of downforce at the tail end of the car at 65 MPH, which rapidly increases with increasing speed.
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@GIVEMEACID You shouldn't have to worry about the solar cells. It should be pretty clear whose they are using, even without an official announcement yet. The total parts count for an Aptera is around 6,000 total - compared to about 30,000 parts for a standard ICE vehicle. Diagnostics should be able to pinpoint most electrical issues and a repair is likely to be un plug a board from the wiring harness and plug in a replacement, or even an OTA software update. Traction will be superb, with an ABS/traction control system that can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution - about every 2.5 inches of tread travel.
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There are many factors. Microgrids also reduce significant transmission losses in the case of electric power and renewable power sources have much less overall loss than the production, transport and use of natural gas to be used for personal transportation. Natural gas will still have a place as a chemical feed stock and some other applications.
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I rode in the silver "Luna" prototype. It was rough, not too different than many full on sports cars. Roush Performance has completely reworked the suspension since then and the ride is much more compliant but still has improved cornering through the addition of a sway bar and going to a dual link rear. I live on a gravel road in Iowa, and expect that it will perform well under my use conditions.
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No, they are not saying that. Of course YMMV. They actually publish the solar insolation charts on their web site. I live in Iowa, with about 1/2 the solar insolation of San Diego, and yet, I am still likely to meet my daily driving needs plus the occasional trip to Kansas City and Des Moines, all without plugging in. And if I need to, I can plug into a standard 11O outlet in my garage. Full solar will clearly pay the $900 option cost back for many users.
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The rear view camera will give good view of the area behind you, as do the side cameras (or mirror)
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@theadventuresofbrockinthai4325 No, you don't get it at all. Depending on the battery you order, you can drive for 250 to 1000 miles under EPA Highway mile test conditions without needing a recharge before the solar input is even considered. You can gain 13 miles of range per hour plugged into a 110 volt 15 amp standard household plug. A 50 kW DC charging station will give you 500 miles of range per hour.
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Aptera grants right to repair. The repair documents will be available for free to everyone. Service of tires and brakes will be just like any other vehicle, as long as they follow the lift instructions. Aptera is aiming for 24 hour turnaround on parts shipments and will have traveling repair teams, especially for warranty work.
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Depending on how long you plan to keep the house, upgraded insulation, solar and more efficient climate control are all low hanging fruit. If V2G becomes available in your area, you can use your car battery to help support the grid without paying for another Powerwall like device.
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This is just a legalism. It will be replacing my present 2 seat car, and will have better performance in every category I can think of - often by a lot.
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Having ridden in one of the alpha prototypes before Thanksgiving, it seems as though the things I noticed about the suspension have already been addressed in the betas.
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@markplott4820 So if there was any truth to your allegation, why has not the SEC started fraud investigations against any of the companies the founders have been involved in, including a publicly traded one? And why do billion dollar plus VCs continue to invest in them, after doing due diligence? The answer is simple. Your claims are fraudulent. Not even Tesla can mass produce the Cybertruck that they announced about the same time Aptera restarted, even with greatly more resources.
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@markplott4820 LOL! Metrolino? That is a figment of your imagination. Nobe is an interesting entry, but won't have anywhere near the performance for the price, and won't have the same safety. It is designed for a different market. Carver? 1/2 the speed, 6 times the charge time, a fraction of the range. for about 1/2 the price. Again, it may meet the needs of some and I hope it does well. Clever is a Chinese city car, No way is it as safe, capable or well made as the American Aptera. Is that your claim? Are you a Chinese bot? Why should someone fear Aptera? I guess the fear of being shown you are silly is a valid one in your case.
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@markplott4820 You completely misunderstand. The Polaris and other such vehicles proves that there is a market for 3 wheelers in the US, but very few people who have placed preorders for Aptera are specifically looking for a 3 wheeler. They are buying for low environmental impact and a far lower cost of ownership that what even a several years old Model S would cost. Neither I nor Aptera would put down the Model S - in fact one of the Aptera founders owns one. If there is no market, how do you explain that Aptera already has thousands more pre-orders than Tesla sold Model S in their first year of production? You are just wrong.
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Contact your local independent repair shops. It is likely that you can find several willing to do it, especially since they will be able to get parts, and the service documents will be available to them for free.
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There are UV protect0rants such as 303 that can be applied to greatly slow this process. Great comment.
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