Comments by "N. Bruce Nelson" (@n.brucenelson5920) on "Donut" channel.

  1.  @hhc1948  The 40 mile average range is only for solar areas further South than Michigan or Iowa, and that is the solar only full range., including the hood, dash, roof, and rear deck. The first models to be released will likely have a 400 mile plus range on full batteries. the second model will be around 250 miles with full batteries, and then will come 600, and then finally 1000 miles. (All these range numbers await validation testing, which will be done next year).
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  2. I live in Iowa, and expect to still get around 20 or so miles from sunlight on the average day. It is still worth having. It will be especially welcome on camping trips in remote areas.
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  3. Yes. Aptera used this on their very first prototype. They petitioned the government to make it a standard, and were the first 3rd party company to get Tesla's permission to use it. Their role in causing NACS to happen has been way under reported.
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  4. Unlike the Robin (which sold 1/2 million examples, btw) Aptera has the two wheels in front and a prototype has passed the moose test. The geometry and center of gravity is much different. And James had to rig the cars he used to make them flip.
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  5.  @jayyvn3339  A three wheeler sold 1/2 million vehicles in Europe and took Reliant, the maker ,to the # 2 manufacturing position in England. The 3 wheel design cuts weight, cost, and rolling resistance - critical for the efficiency goals of the vehicle.
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  6.  @cheesefries7436  Production body panels are already being produced. Early next year the validation intent vehicles will be undergoing testing. Perhaps you didn't watch this video of the gamma prototype?
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  7. Although the name is the same, the vehicle and company now (Aptera Corp., rather than Aptera, Inc.) are completely different from what you saw then. Although the original founders of both companies were the same people, by the time of the X prize, they had been kicked out of the company and gone on to other successful projects. In 2019, Chris Anthony was offered the rights to the original company that had been sold at auction, regathered his key original people, and started a new company with a completely new design. If the current vehicle is successful and the company goes public, the second vehicle is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel sedan.
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  8. Aptera has a very fast acting traction control system. It can sense wheel slip and adjust torque about every 2.5" of tread travel. I think the AWD versions will be very good on slick surfaces. I plan to use studded snow tires during Iowa winters, where I live, and will report on my experience.
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  9.  @appa609  There is actually around 25 lbs of (intentional) down force at 65 mph.
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  10. ...How to tell when a person has done zero research regarding what they write about.
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  11. The ceiling could be an issue, too. Quite a few people will want to leave it outside for maximum sun exposure. Each situation is different.
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  12. I plan to report on the performance of an early vehicle in Iowa.
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  13. My wife and I have ridden in a prototype. There is no problem with the doors . you just back up to the seat, sit straight down, and rotate on your butt to swing your legs in. Surprisingly, you hardly notice the window divider when you are driving. My mind is still open on this, since the size and location may be relatively different on production models, but I am no longer worried. As far as width goes, it is less wide than my step van was, and I could still park that in a compact parking space.
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  14. It has been designed to exceed safety standards for cars - and will be tested to FMVSS part 200 standards by a third party and the results will be published. It doesn't need to have air bags, either, but it does.
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  15. "This company" was only founded in 2019. Way to do your due diligence.
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  16. You have not been paying attention. The "Tesla Plug" is now the standard that will also be known as the SAE NACS Electric Vehicle Coupler J3400_202312 Soon all manufacturers delivering vehicles in the US will use it as will all public charging stations - not just Tesla.
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  17. I live in Iowa and will be reporting on the performance with an early model. Due to the excellent traction control with AWD and snow tires, I expect it will do well. The wheels can adjust torque with tire slip every 2.5" of tread travel. They already tested a prototype on a ski slope in Switzerland with snow depth above the bottom of the wheel pants and it did OK.
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  18. The 1000 mile range version is still probably several years out. The pack itself will use new batteries with the same form factor as the present ones, except taller. This is also true of the 600 mile range versions. There is still a lot of development work to do to complete these models. Aptera is a continuous improvement company, and there is a possibility that completely new battery tech will be available to them with higher energy density than the present cells, and if so, they could switch.
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  19. I invested early on in Aptera Corp, knowing that there was an extremely small chance of any return. That however has changed and the odds are much better. I invested for the same reason I contribute to charities - to give the World a small push in the direction I want to see.
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  20. Motorcycles still need insurance in every state I have ridden in. The original Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. Idealab hired a CEO from Detroit who didn't want to build the original design, and had the founders removed from the board in 2009, and started claiming he was the founder. He couldn't raise funding for his new ideas, and liquidated the company in 2011. - it never went bankrupt. Both Steve and Chris founded new successful companies. Chris took his public as co-founder and CEO and it is still a strong buy. In 2019 he was offered the rights to the original company from the widow of the man who purchased them at the auction, and regathered the original key people. They started over with a different corporate structure and a fresh design.
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  21.  @garrettlowell7637  Most of the people I know who plan to make Aptera their sole vehicle are probably what you would call "old people", including me. Perhaps you don't know that there is a specific provision for pets, including a "pet mode" and safety restraints designed to keep pets and their owners safe. You haven't done any of your homework on the vehicle and who has already ordered it at all.
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  22. The big difference is the design of the Aptera was not a temporary fashion statement, but comes directly from the mission of the vehicle - to be as efficient as possible.
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  23. The vehicle and company that they were taking preorders on in 2010 was a different one. The original company, Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. They hired a CEO from Detroit who never wanted to build the 3 wheeler, and he ousted the founders in a board coup in 2009. He was unable to raise funds for his new idea, and closed and liquidated the company in 2011. After taking a lithium battery company public as CEO, Chris Anthony was offered the IP rights to the original company from the widow of the man who bought them in the 2011 auction. He bought them, regathered the key members of the original team, including Steve Fambro, and others and restarted a new company - Aptera Corp in 2019, with completely different corporate structure and an almost completely different vehicle with no parts or even drive train concept in common with the original.
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  24. I got my order in the first hour they were available in Dec, 2020. The vehicle they will end up delivering is far more advanced than what I was expecting at that time.- it is now more like a super car.
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  25. Every object on the vehicle - including the body shape, has solid engineering reasons and aren't there as a fashion statement. I advise you to actually look into it. Even an early prototype I rode in greatly exceeded regular EVs in many ways. Production vehicles are going to be surprisingly awesome.
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  26. Luck is not needed - they are engineered to be safe and will be publicly crash tested with the ratings released.
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  27. The highest rate for the first models will be between 40-60 kW per hour, or about an hour to fully charge a 400 mile range battery pack (45 kW/huur pack - 40 kwh useable capacity)
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  28. No. 4 wheels would add weight, rolling resistance, air resistance, and cost, and an additional friction robbing bearing.
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  29. No. Completely different company and vehicle. The design you were thinking of was also called Aptera and had a similar shape, but that company was an Idealab project that kicked out the founders in 2009 and then couldn't raise further funding when they abandoned the original idea. They liquidated in 2011, while the original Aptera founders established new successful companies, and then started Aptera Corp in 2019.
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  30. My thanks to you! It is always great to be able to look at your contributions when you eventually retire. I hope to experience your work first hand before long.
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  31. My hope is that we start to see some competitors. Aptera has already pushed the industry into adoption of the Tesla charging connector - now known as NACS. They put it on their first prototypes, got 10s of thousands of signatures on a petition to have it adopted as a US standard, and were the very first 3rd party company to get Tesla's permission to use it. They have already had a major influence on the industry.
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  32.  @yourhandlehere1  Yes, in person. I hope you have your chance, soon. You will find out that they are also "silly fast".
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  33.  @SevenDeMagnus  That is mere FUD. Aptera passes handling tests that many cars on sale in the US market can't now.- including many that don't release their safety data either - look it up! There will be further information on this when the validation data from the production intent vehicles is released - which will be even safer and better handling than the already very good prototypes. Top Gear even admitted that they had to rig the Reliant Robin to make it topple, and it isn't even close to the same class as Aptera in stability.
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  34. Exactly. And your estimates don't even mention the likely saving that will accrue to all of us from the lower environmental damage that these vehicles will cause.
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  35. Why ignore the genius of the vehicle? That is the only reason I have ordered one- not because of the marketing, however good it is.
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  36. The Cybertruck is largely a fashion statement. Aptera is pure form follows function and will never go out of style until the physics it is based on changes.
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  37. The first production vehicles will deliver around 400 miles of range at EPA highway speeds. They will eventually have models with about 250, 400, 600, and 1,000 mile range.
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  38. You would be surprised. First of all they aren't AAA batteries. Secondly, the 4 second zero to 60 times will be likely be humiliating to your Ramcharger -and your pocketbook when you compare the initial and and operational costs.
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  39. Much of the heat produced by the vehicle is from the wheel motors located in the wheel pants. It may not need any extra help for this function.
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  40. California does not require a front plate for motorcycles or autocycles - which Aptera is classed as.
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  41. The first models produced will be the 400 mile range ones. The 250 mile range versions, starting at around $25,900 will come later.
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  42. This is a very different vehicle and company than that one was, but there is some similar thinking behind it.
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  43. Yes. And it isn't only saving money, but the lower carbon contribution is likely to save lives. In addition this is accomplished without compromising performance. The 4 second 0-60 times of the AWD version is going to put big grins on lots of faces.
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  44. That last claim is no longer true. Silicon solar modules are primarily composed of glass, plastic, and aluminum: three materials that are recycled in mass quantities.
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  45. The solar capacity can cover the average driving needs of the average driver in the US SW. However, the Aptera can be plugged into grid power, and is compatible with Tesla power plugs.
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  46. Aptera's shape is almost pure form follows function - not some arbitrary fashion statement. The first vehicles will come with a 400 mile range battery, and will charge to full in an hour at a Tesla Supercharger.
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  47. There is a "pet mode" to leave the AC on while parked. Whether solar can keep up with the battery discharge in Phoenix at 120 F or higher remains to be seen, but it will help. A fan will blow the hot air past the AC condenser and out the tail of the vehicle.
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  48. Future 250 mile range vehicles may be able to add back the 3rd seat. If not, the next Aptera Corp vehicle is likely to be a 5 seater.
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  49. I live in rural Iowa, surrounded by gravel roads. I don't think the roads would be any worse in Canada. I do wonder about extended -40 weather in some areas. I will report on my experience with an early model.
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  50. Yes, Aptera can sleep two people for camping.
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  51.  @firemanflorence  There is a 250 mile range model in the works for $25,900.
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  52. Remember that ongoing cost of ownership should be a part of your calculation.
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  53. That wasn't the same vehicle, although it had a similar shaped body. The design of the current vehicle, which has a completely different drive train, size, and construction technique, started in 2019.
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  54. They swing up. There is more clearance than with standard doors that swing out.
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  55. The first is a big yes. The second will vary by local laws.
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  56. Learn how to do some due diligence. The last company Chris Anthony co-founded and took public as CEO is rated a strong buy on the market by every analyst following it. Any startup is risky, but "Kickstarter scams" are not partnered with the world's top automotive suppliers.
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  57.  @diegomarxweiller1814  CPC of Modena Italy, the same company that makes bodies for Lamborghini, Yazaki of Japan, the largest wiring harness supplier, Roush Performance for suspension and other parts, I could go on, but this is all stuff you could have found out for yourself if you weren't so lazy or didn't know how. We are beginning to think that you have no idea how to do your own research or thinking.
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  58.  @diegomarxweiller1814  There are at least three. If you didn't know that, you probably don't even know the name of the company. Hint: they are now a major supplier to Delta Airlines.
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  59. No, you can plug into any available grid power source as well, including a Tesla Supercharger. In fact, it is because of Aptera that the Supercharger system has opened up as NACS to the rest of the industry.
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  60.  @diegomarxweiller1814  You are just showing your extreme ignorance here. Why do you think it is the standard? Chris Anthony included it in the very first prototypes because he looked at all the options and knew it was superior, even though it was proprietary. He asked Elon for permission to use it. Then he created a petition that over 40,000 people signed the company's petition to make Tesla superchargers and plugs the U.S. standard. I was one of them. “We're thrilled about this news and applaud Tesla for allowing and encouraging the EV industry to utilize its superior technology,”
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  61.  @diegomarxweiller1814  LOL Afraid of having your ignorance so publicly exposed? Perhaps you could inform yourself before spouting nonsense. I don't work for Aptera - but I have given them some of my own money. Everything I have done for them has been entirely volunteer.
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  62. I did my due diligence on Elio back in the day. They were an obvious scam to anyone who looked at the company closely. Aptera passes such an inspection.
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  63. Depending on time of year, and the particular day. and location. Might be better to say "up to" ...or at least 13 miles for each hour plugged into a standard 110 VAC outlet.
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  64. Aptera will be tested by a third party to the same FMVSS Part 200 standards that cars are subject to and the results will be published.
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  65.  @allhonesty848  I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles, so I have never relied on crash protection to keep me safe (although I certainly used helmets and padding) My first Honda Insight was hit from behind at 65 mph by an SUV and I was uninjured. I replaced it with a similar model. In my judgement, Aptera will be even safer, but I will have more evidence when the crash test results are released. Of course the Aptera is FAR bigger than the Smart Car, with much larger crumple zones. Your comment makes me think you haven't looked into it.
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  66. Production vehicles will have multiple levels of regeneration.
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  67. Pretty sure you shouldn't...
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  68. Depending on the local area it may be called an autocycle. It is certainly its own vehicle, but will be built and safety tested to automotive standards.
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  69.  @airbnbphotography  A fast charger with 50 amps, 400 VDC will charge a 400 mile range battery Aptera to full in about one hour. We will know exactly once the validation testing of the PI vehicles is finished. It is not the fastest, but the range is such that it is certainly practical. You can certainly use an adapter to other cables if you wish, but it would be more bulky and soon all stations will be using the NACS plug as standard. Due to the solar assist and 110 and 220/240 VAC charging capability most users will never need to visit a fast charger in any case. If needed the possibility is there.
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  70.  @airbnbphotography  Yes, the motors are wheel motors. This has the disadvantage of adding unsprung weight.But not an outrageous amount, just over 50 lbs per wheel. The advantages include no drive shaft bearing and additional weight and friction, plus much faster acting traction control that can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution-or about every 2.5 inches of tread travel.
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  71. It had better - I live in rural Iowa and mine will be seeing a lot of gravel roads. I will report on how it does year round.
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  72. Hidden under the front cowl.
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  73. I live in Iowa and will be getting an early model. I will let you know how it performs there.
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  74. Yes, Chris Anthony is 6'4". We have seen video of journalists as tall as 6'8 sitting in the gamma with head and leg room to spare.
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  75. I will be driving mine year 'round in Iowa, and will report on my experience.
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  76. We just found out that the solar panels will be covered with glass rather than plastic.
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  77. I live in Iowa where we get a lot less solar insolation than California, but solar is still likely to meet most of my daily driving needs except for trips, and it will be welcome for camping. Around 62% of our grid power comes from wind, so occasionally plugging in is less damaging than in many places.
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  78. Walking is good. It might even increase the oxygen flow to your brain enough to improve your thinking to the point you change your mind.
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  79. Plenty of room in back. You can even order a pet kit.
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  80. The first Apterae will be delivered from Southern California, and they will have mobile repair people located there. Since Aptera is a right to repair, company, any independent repair shop can be used or you can do such work yourself. Aptera plans 24 hour parts turn around, and repair procedures will often be accessible through QR codes. I have checked with my local shops in Iowa, and they can't wait to work on it.
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  81.  @StageRight123  I live in Iowa. I expect the AWD model will be very good in snow with the proper tires because of a superior traction control system that can sense slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. It has already proven it can run on ski slopes in Switzerland with the snow over the bottom of the wheel pants.
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  82. Wonderful! My wife and I rode in Luna with Daniel Morris driving. You can be proud of your work.
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  83. Four states require a motorcycle license to operate Aptera at present: Alaska, Georgia, South Dakota, and Washington. This is changing.
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  84. It is not only aerodynamic from the front, but also other directions. There is downforce built into the shape and it is more stable than most slab sided vehicles on the road, even those with 4 wheels.
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  85. Aptera's second vehicle is likely to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  86. Why would I want to drive around a Model 3 that uses 2.5 times the power of Aptera if Aptera meets my needs?
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  87. Probably won't happen. In some of these states, you can;t even roll a dresser bike through the area that it is required to turn in with the wheel at lock. They provide a small bike that the test must be taken on.
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  88. It was done so they don't compress too much air between the wheel pods and the body. It is the best way to reduce air resistance - critical to the performance.
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  89.  @AkbarNurPribadi  That would increase the frontal area, and thus greatly increase the wind resistance. Of course you are correct that the extra width in front also gives more stability. Having three wheels reduces rolling resistance, weight, and cost, compared to 4. Since the goal is to build the most efficient vehicle for the job, a whole series of factors come into play.
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  90. The company, Aptera Corp. was only founded in 2019 and design work begun. Do your research. It is possible that customer vehicles could start shipping by the end of next summer, depending on how funding goes and the results of the validation testing of the initial production intent vehicles, including crash testing.
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  91.  @emptyshirt  I certainly hope they do!
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  92. With over 32 sq. ft. of cargo space, should be little issue.
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  93. Actually, this fear is not correct. I have ridden in one. There is plenty of room between each front tire and the trailing rear tire in the center - almost 4 ft, to make straddling potholes and debris usually possible. In addition there is no low hanging air dam to be damaged as there is on many Japanese small cars, including my present one. Aptera is even better at this.
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  94. Aptera can be charged at a rate of 13 MPH range gain plugged into a standard 110VAC outlet, or around 400 miles per hour plugged into a Tesla Supercharger.
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  95.  @joesmith201212  You apparently aren't aware that the configuration of the controllers makes a large difference in how a panel can charge. Conventional roof top panels can lose much of their output from the shadow of a power line for instance. That is not the case with the Aptera controllers. You should actually investigate before making uninformed statements.
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  96. The first is a matter of taste, and will likely be addressed by the aftermarket. I was concerned about the window myself, but found it wasn't the issue I expected in the prototype I rode in. I had to think about it to even notice it. I am withholding judgement until I have a chance to experience a production vehicle because the dimensions have changed from the prototype I rode in,, and I think the line will be thinner. It may depend on the height of the driver, but I think it will be OK for most.
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  97.  @ALE5six1  $25,900 was the announced base price for the original planned 2WD solar hood 250 mile range model. I am beginning to think that they may only do full solar models going forwards. While inflation has been on going, battery prices have dropped considerably, and the per body cost of the CPC bodies is likely to be much lower than the old vacuum resin infusion prices and have less waste. I don't think we will have a better idea until they are near production, and the 250 mile (or so) range models are still a ways off. I think 1000 mile range vehicles will surely be well over $ 50K unless battery prices continue to go down rapidly (which may happen).
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  98.  @ALE5six1  I appreciate your interest. No, Elio Motors vibe is not a good thing. They were a scam. 3 wheels provides a major reduction of rolling resistance, and is especially important at lower speeds. Air resistance is the major power loss at highway speeds, so both are important. 3 wheels also lowers weight and cost. Even though it is not required by law, Aptera will be submitted to the same FMVSS crash testing as other cars and the results will be published. We have already seen video of the beta prototype passing the moose test - something that many vehicles on US roads can't do.
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  99. Falsehood. The company was only created in 2019, and the design was essentially finished in December of 2022.
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  100. Chris Anthony, one of the co-founders, is 6'4" . People up to around 6'8" should find it fairly comfortable.
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  101. Aptera is pure form follows function - not some fickle fashion statement.
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  102.  @Capt.Kira_FoeHammer  Elio Motors has always been a fake. Aptera Corp founders have successful backgrounds. Chris Anthony took his last company public as CEO.
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  103.  @stephen3164  You are completely correct. The entire Aptera vehicle was conceived of as a niche vehicle, just as the first Tesla was. It is just that that niche has turned out to be considerably larger than the founders ever expected. This is what has caused the delay as Aptera switches from low volume vacuum resin infusion production to stamped carbon fiber/SMC. Even though only a fraction of owners will find Solar very useful, it will not take huge numbers to save millions of lives over the next century. That is why the solar panel contribution shouldn't be ignored. See the paper on this "Quantifying Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions in Human Deaths to Guide Energy Policy by Joshua M. Pearce and Richard Parncutt
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  104. They are already producing production parts. The first validation vehicles will come together early next year and start validation testing. If all goes well, the first production vehicles could be delivered as early as end of next summer. (that might be a bit optimistic, but it is coming.)
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  105. Yes. It will not only cool the cabin, but also the battery pack and wheel/inverter cooling circuits when the vehicle is traveling at slow speed or stopped for charging. It takes in cool air from under the front windshield cowl and blows the heat out vents in the rear.
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  106. Aptera will be voluntarily crash tested to the same standard of every other car or truck in the US by a third party- FMVSS Part 200. The results will be published, unlike many SUVs and trucks for sale in the US.
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  107. It doesn't take much due diligence to see that they are nothing alike. The Aptera company founders have a record of successful startups, including a lithium battery company that Chris Anthony took public as co-founder and CEO.
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  108. You need to do your homework. Even in Iowa, where I will get perhaps 1/2 the maximum daily range, it will likely meet most of my driving requirements from solar alone.
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  109. You could convert a miata, but it would lose more range due to rolling and wind resistance, for starters.
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  110. I 5 seater may be next in line.
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  111. It is not just for stability. It compresses the air less between the wheel pants and the body and improves the aerodynamics as well.
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  112. The 1000 mile range model won't be available for years yet - It will require taller form factor batteries that aren't in production yet. It will also be the least efficient of all the models. If V2G becomes available, I could see a case being made for it, however.
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  113.  @stefen2157  There is hardly a lack of space compared to other cars of similar size. The rear cargo area holds 32 cu ft of storage, and will accommodate long items - or sleep 2 rather tall people for camping trips. The bigger limitation may not be space, but total weight capacity, which is stated to be 500 lbs. Rather good for its purpose, and not out of line with other 2 seat, 4 wheel vehicles.
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  114. Handles would interfere with air flow. I will report on my experience with one in snowy Iowa.
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  115.  @garywozniak7742  And even a tall couple can sleep in the back.
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  116. The original pricing for the base model was targeted at $25,900 in 2020. I expect that the first production models will come in under $40,000 - perhaps significantly under, but they won't announce pricing until they know what their costs will be, perhaps middle of next year. Battery prices - a big part of the total- have been falling.
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  117. You have not yet grasped the purpose or benefits of the design. However with right to repair, owners can do whatever they wish with one.
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  118. There are more than 45,000 paid pre-orders now. Perhaps only 30% or so of those will close, but the vast majority of the potential market has never even heard of Aptera yet. Once they start to experience the performance and cost of operation, sales will go through the roof!
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  119. My wife and I rode in a 2WD prototype and they are Amazing fun - not what you expect from an "economy car". AWD is better than the first Tesla Roadsters.
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  120. The shape was designed in the early '80s by A. Morelli. The physics of it hasn't changed.
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  121. It is NOT yet a production car, but I am convinced now that they will get there. Parts ARE being produced now. I expect first deliveries late summer, after crash testing and other validation work is completed.
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  122. I did due diligence on both companies. Elio was a fake. The Aptera founders both have a record of building successful companies. Chris Anthony took his last company public as CEO and it is still rated a strong buy.
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  123. Watch for my posts regarding the performance of an early model in Iowa.
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  124. ​ @MiscellaneousMcC  I don't know the answer to the effect running the heat will have on range. There will be need for both keeping the passenger(s) warm, and maintaining the battery pack at a suitable temperature. I think we will find out more about this during the validation phase of the testing of the first production vehicles this coming Spring. My guess is that it will be adequate down to -20 below F, and possibly further, but definitely with a range hit. As far as performance in snow, I currently drive a gen 1 Honda Insight through Iowa winters. It weighs about the same as an Aptera will, and the track of the rear wheels is narrower than the front, so it has to displace more snow. I have found that with proper snow tires it is adequate. Aptera will have superior traction control, with the ability to sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. There will be snow fall that is deeper than Aptera or any other small car can handle, but once the roads are plowed I think it will be better than many, at least in the AWD versions. A prototype has already been tested on a ski slope in Switzerland with the snow above the bottom edge of the wheel pants, and it did fine.
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  125. The NACS connector Aptera is using is no longer a "specialized charging port" but the North American standard, thanks to Aptera's efforts. Aptera Corp only started in 2019, so wrong again. It appears you are incapable of understanding simple math with your "3 to 5"months to charge your car statement. The first shipping LE models will be able to charge their batteries from empty to full in about an hour at a Tesla charging station. We will know more exactly once the PI models complete their validation work.
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  126. It passes the Moose Test. It would be pretty hard to do. Even the Robin had to be modified to get it to flip on Top Gear, and this is no Robin.
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  127. The batteries for the 600 and 1000 mile range vehicles are the same as in the present 400 mile range design - just taller form factors. They are in development now, and when they reach the production stage, the battery packs can be built. We will have a better idea of the actual range once the 400 mile production intent vehicles are validated.
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  128. It is a result of the aerodynamic design requirements and the safety function of the doors.
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  129. Where does this come from? Aptera Corp was only founded in 2019, when the design of the vehicle began. Of course, failure is still an option, but at present they have done a better job managing their money and making progress towards production than Tesla did during their startup phase. You are welcome to ask me questions or do your own research.
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  130.  @yourhandlehere1  Anyone who understand the reason for them knows that they are not "silly".
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  131.  @tonyn3227  Tesla started by shipping defective cars and came within an hour of bankruptcy before they finally had a fix for their defective transmissions Aptera is doing validation work before they ship, and will be able to handle repairs under warranty.
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  132. @user-iu2ft6sp6d That is likely to be true at the beginning. But it could change quickly. Aptera has even said it will make CAD files available to companies that wish to make aftermarket parts. I think we will see the largest aftermarket develop since the VW Bug, due to their friendly policy.
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  133. Much of the safety concern over 3 wheels came in the wake of Top Gear modifying a Reliant Robin to make it look easy to turn over for comic purposes. The Aptera is a tadpole configuration, has a much lower center of gravity due to the wheel motors and battery pack, and passes the moose test - it is better in this regard than many 4 wheel cars on American roads. The three wheels reduces rolling resistance, allows for a more aerodynamic shape, and reduces weight, cost, and tire costs. For its mission, it is a win all around. It will be publicly crash tested next year to FMVSS Part 200 automotive safety standards by a third party. They wouldn't go to this expense voluntarily if they didn't know it would do well.
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  134. I live in Iowa, and expect it to do well in the Launch Edition form. I will report on my experience.
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  135. That information will become more available with the testing of the production intent validation models, and reports from the field from owners of early deliveries. Of course range will be lower. 100 +F days are within the design range, as are - 20F days.
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  136. There are no flat surfaces for the wind to push against. You hardly feel gusts even at speed. Most 3 wheelers aren't designed like this.
    2
  137. Not this car or company. Aptera Corp. was founded in 2019, and has a completely different corporate structure thn Aptera Inc. and the drive train of the vehicle has nothing in common with what you are referring to.
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  138. I have driven the Elise, and ridden in an Aptera prototype. That is an apt comparison. I think the 0-60 time of the Aptera AWD of around 4.0 seconds is similar to the Elise. They are certainly not what you expect from an "economy car".
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  139.  @tims8603  Yes. And is therefore a much simpler and less expensive vehicle to operate and maintain than even the Insight has been for us.
    2
  140. The gamma already had one crushed by a BMW driver backing into it. It was repaired in about a week. The production ones can be replaced in minutes by new, as well as repaired.
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  141. The Maxeon cells used in the Aptera panels are sold in fixed panels by Maxeon directly with a 40 year warranty and a stated efficiency of 88% of the original over that time frame. Advances in Solar tech probably mean that the solar panels on most Apterae will be replaced long before that, due to lower cost and increased efficiency.
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  142. Both my wife and I have ridden in an Aptera prototype. It is no Gremlin (which my brother owned). Although the primary design goal is efficiency, the AWD acceleration is better than at least the first 200 Tesla Roadsters made. It is a blast! Production is still around a year away.
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  143. Aptera's shape is not some fickle temporary fashion statement that will go out of style. It is pure form follows function. It has existed in its basic form since an A. Morelli shape published in 1982, and built by several organizations, including MIT.
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  144. Compared to what? Don't forget to compare the total cost of ownership and use.
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  145. Just a correction - no version of Aptera has ever gone bankrupt. The first Aptera, Inc. company was a partnership that kicked out the founders in 2009, changed their plans, and then found they could no longer raise money for their new direction. They then liquidated the company in 2011. there was never any bankruptcy, and the vendors were paid and customer deposits returned.
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  146.  @eslachance  Yes. This is mis-information that has been repeated over and over.. The former Aptera CEO who was appointed by Idealab even claimed to be the founder at one point. Steve and Chris have just decided not to confront the false narratives out there directly, but both have been busy starting and running new successful companies. Chris Anthony even co-founded and as CEO took a lithium battery company public, which he left to get Aptera Corp going again.
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  147. Of course it can do both Mulholland and Pikes Peak without issue. It is light weight and has plenty of torque. Both my wife and I have ridden in an early Aptera prototype and the performance is eye opening. The AWD model can do better than the original Tesla Roadster in acceleration and not risk breaking a transmission, which happened so often that on demo days in 2008, Tesla needed a stack of spare transmissions and a crew to change them out while they were giving demo rides.
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  148. Aptera was designed to meet US laws.
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  149. This is what pure form follows function design looks like.
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  150. I live in rural Iowa and hope to find out. I will post video.
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  151. Aptera has laid out their general production plans going forward in their SEC reports. The second Aptera vehicle is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel sedan. We are unlikely to hear more details until they announce plans to go public. At the moment they are laser focused on the first vehicle.
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  152. ​ @OCofthe3 :"The resulting evolution of the body shape is crisper, with a sleek, stark interior that carries over nothing from the planned Aptera 2e of 2009." From an early ieee Spectrum article on the new company. There is much more discussion of this in Aptera videos and other places.
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  153. The body shape of the Aptera is not a fashion statement but comes from physics. It was introduced by A. Morelli in 1982 when he was studying the most efficient shapes for reducing air resistance. Fashion changes but physics doesn't.
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  154. The traction control is exceptional. I will report on my experience with one in Iowa.
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  155.  @tims8603  Yes! Each wheel can sense tire spin and adjust torque about every 2.5" of tread travel.
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  156. Aptera's next vehicle is likely to be a 5 seat sedan. This first vehicle has very quick acting traction control that can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. I expect the AWD models to be good in snow with studded snow tires. I will be reporting on my experience driving in Iowa.
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  157.  @thegametable1243  Not the same company. The original Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. Idealab decided that they wanted a CEO from Detroit. That CEO organized a board coup and kicked the founders out in 2009. He had a different vision for a 4 wheeled car and was unable to raise further funds for it. He liquidated the company in 2011 and returned customer deposits and paid off the vendors. Both founders founded new, successful companies when they left. Chris Anthony co-founded a lithium battery company and took it public as CEO. In 2019, he was offered a chance to buy the original IP from the widow of the man who had purchased it in the auction. He regathered the original key people, and started a new company, Aptera Corp, with a completely new design.
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  158. I plan to use mine year round in rural Iowa, including gravel roads. I will report on my experience next year.
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  159. The Maxeon cells will be covered with thin glass, similar to the protective cover on cell phone screens.
    2
  160. Perhaps because the vehicle you are talking about was a different company and a different vehicle. The same founders were involved, but their partners kicked them out of that company in 2009, and the CEO they hired from Detroit could raise funding for his alternative plans. They held an orderly liquidation sale in 2011. This company, Aptera Corp, started with a completely new EV design in 2019.
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  161. Aptera is a right to repair company. I already have mechanics who want to work on it here in rural Iowa. Real enthusiast shops can hardly wait.
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  162. It is a form follows function - not a fashion design that goes out of date.
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  163.  @Okurkaarrgghh  The $25,900 estimated price is for a 250 mile range version. The 400 mile range AWD model is also an estimated price. The prices will be firmly established about the time they ship. Since those estimates, inflation has been high, but battery prices and the body production method costs have gone down.
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  164. That would be a sort of "perpetual motion machine" that couldn't recover the friction losses. In fact, some energy is recovered when going down hill or braking through regenerative braking systems.
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  165. I live in Iowa, and will be taking delivery of an early model. It will still meet my average driving needs through solar alone. And if I plug it in, 62% of our grid power comes from wind.
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  166. How to tell people you haven't looked into the details....
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  167. Everyone is allowed to work on it. Aptera is a Right to Repair company. Even in rural Iowa, my shops can't wait.
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  168. They are going to have an off road version with different wheel pants.
    2
  169. True - but with far fewer resources than Elon has - and they have done a far better job of managing their financial resources than Elon did at the same relative point in time when developing the Roadster- as Elon himself has admitted.
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  170. Of course there is information. The full Aptera solar panels will produce about 700 watts peak and around 4200 watt hours in a Southern California location. This exceeds the average commuter's daily commuting needs. In Iowa, where I live, I will probably only get about 1/2 the power, but in my rural town I don't have the same driving needs, so I will likely still be covered for most needs. If not, I can gain 130 miles of range overnight by plugging in, and 62% of that power comes from wind.
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  171. Hard to find when you live in rural Iowa like we do.
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  172. I plan to own an early model in Iowa. I will report on my experience in snow.
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  173. Much of this has already been covered. Several independent reviewers have spoken of the ride quality. I would describe the early prototype I rode in as "sports car like" but the suspension has been much refined since then. It passes the moose test, so it is in the upper range of vehicles for sale in the US for cornering ability. The regen has not yet been demonstrated in the prototypes. This will be revealed during the validation testing of the PI models.
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  174. I had a ride in a prototype before the suspension was completed by Roush Performance. Even then it did well over speed bumps. I will report on my experience in Iowa on gravel roads.
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  175. My wife and I thought the same thing until we rode in a prototype. We are keeping an open mind because the site lines for the production models will be different, but we are far less worried than before we experienced a version in person.
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  176. There is almost 4 ft between each front wheel and the center. They are easy to straddle.
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  177. My wife and I both plan to!
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  178. 4 wheels increases weight, rolling resistance, and cost. They will make a 4 wheel 5 passenger sedan, eventually though.
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  179.  @zachmoyer1849  Yes. It is in their SEC reports. They eventually want to have a full line of vehicles, including a semi tractor, which is obviously a long way off. I have personally had a long and varied career, that has included traveling the world addressing environmental issues, running a quality and R&D lab, and working as a supplier to most of the major and startup car companies, going back to the Saturn, and including many of the early EV startups. This has included a deep dive into thermal issues, including work for NASA. I have seldom, if ever, seen a company that "gets it" to the extent Aptera does, or a more passionate management team.
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  180. It has 32 ft of storage space and enough room for 2 people to sleep in the back for camping. It is both a practical commuter and a weekend adventure vehicle - exactly what many couples want, and it fills that dual role at a much lower out of pocket cost.
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  181.  @Foersom_  32 cu ft., or around 90% of a cubic meter. Aptera will fit nicely into a US compact parking space with room to open the doors. You are correct that it is not a 4 seater. Neither was Tesla's first car.
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  182.  @Foersom_  32 cu ft, or if you prefer about 90% of a cubic meter. Aptera will fit in a US compact parking space with room to open the doors. It has better 0-60 times than Tesla's first shipoing 2 seat sports car at about 1/3rd the price, and a far larger demonstrated market. through paid pre-orders.
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  183.  @Crazy_Dave  I presently drive a Gen 1 Honda Insight. The rear wheels are narrower than the front track and it is still not terrible. Unlike most cars, the AWD Aptera models can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tire travel. With decent snow tires I think it will do very well. The gamma prototype has already been driven on a ski slope in Switzerland with snow above the bottom of the wheel pants. I think it will do well and will report on my experience with an early model in Iowa.
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  184. Most people drive less than that on a daily basis. I will get far less solar miles, and it will still be good where I live in Iowa.
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  185.  @firemanflorence  The Solar is not extra for the launch edition, and may end up being included in all of the models.
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  186.  @seapirate65  We are still a ways from knowing the actual final selling cost of the 250 mile range basic model, and it is probably still at least a couple years off from production. You have time to continue to save, and will have third party reports of the actual performance by that time to help in your decision making.
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  187. That is my hope!
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  188. Aptera is using Maxeon solar cells. You can look up the performance specs - they are the best in the industry.
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  189.  @allhonesty848  I thank you for sharing your opinion with me. I care what people think about environmental issues because we collectively decide on our actions. My room mate in college was from an atoll in the South Pacific that is disappearing due to rising sea levels. I no longer have to clean bug splat off my car windshield when driving past fields on Midwest rural roads. The signs of climate change are all around us. I care about my children and grandchildren, and if discussion can open my eyes, to the way another thinks, then I am all for it. This is part of the reason I learned to speak German, Persian, and Japanese, and lived in the respective countries. I have also stayed with families in Palestine and Israel. It has given me some perspective about what we are doing to ourselves.
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  190. No they have not. The company was only started in 2019, and they originally expected a small market and were planning to produce the production bodies with vacuum resin infusion tech, just like the prototypes. When more than 40,000 pre-orders came in, they shifted to stamped carbon and SMC sheet, produced by CPC of Italy, like other supercars. The result will be greatly improved quality at the cost of a slip in start of delivery due to the complete redesign that was needed.
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  191. Gay side? what does that even mean?
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  192. Of course. The benefit of using 2.5 times less power than a Tesla Model 3 for the same performance will be clear to anyone only needing space for one or two passengers.
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  193. It could depend on your height. I was worried about that, but after riding in a prototype, I found that I didn't even notice the bar. Since the dimensions of the production model are different, I can't say for sure, but I am hopeful that it won't be an issue.
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  194. Do the math. The long range version will not be out for another year or to, while we will see the 400 mile version deliveries start at the end of this year.
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  195. Far more than "a couple of prototypes" (one of which I have ridden in) There are now body panels in production and some have passed dimensional certification.
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  196. AWD will be about 0-60 in 4 seconds.
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  197. Stalks are included in the driver interface, as well as buttons for PRNDL
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  198.  @airbnbphotography  Aptera has far fewer places where energy is wasted. It will go at least 2.5 times further in the same amount of power as the already rather good Tesla Model 3 I find it interesting how they have done it.
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  199. 25,900 was the initial announced price. With falling battery prices, they still might be able to it in spite of the general inflation since then.
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  200. If you saw a picture in a magazine in 2006, it wasn't this company or vehicle. Over the years, there have been several vehicles designed with a nod to the 1982 A. Morelli body shape. Aptera Corp. was founded in 2019, and will likely be delivering their first production vehicles next year. This is an amazingly good performance for a startup!
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  201. Some research will dispel most of these concerns. The laws have been changing rapidly in most states that had restrictions, and there are few, if any left, even at this point, months before deliveries begin.
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  202. It isn't an either/or choice. The solar will be welcome on camping trips for instance, and collectively protect the public power grid.
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  203. The alternator would only charge when the wheel is turning. The motors in the wheel can provide regenerative power when braking or going down hill, so your idea is used here. As far as wind goes, most of the wind while driving is caused by the motion of the car which uses power. Aptera is designed to minimise the resistance of the wind, so a wind turbine would ADD resistance - and provide less power than it was stealing from the forward motion of the vehicle. Good questions!
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  204. Repairs can be done. They offer Right to Repair and will strive for 24 hour turn around on parts shipments.
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  205. Why?
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  206. Their second vehicle will likely be a 5 seater.
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  207. I know what you mean. I drive an original Honda Insight hybrid from 2001. My Aptera will replace it.
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  208. Prototypes have been in existence for a while. Parts for the validation production models are in production now.
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  209. Apterae use about 100 watt/hrs to travel a mile at EPA highway speeds - averaging around 52 mph. We will have 3rd party validation numbers next year.
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  210. Yes, both.
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  211. While it is true that early versions wore rather quickly, we are way past that now, and service intervals have greatly increased as well. We will get the final performance for the LE versions once the validation tests are finished, later this year.
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  212.  @joey8567  All these other vehicles you mention have wear areas that Aptera does not have - and they also lose energy due to friction. Your propane powered forklifts do not have the abrasive combustion fuel products of petrol or diesel, so they are cleaner than other ICE vehicles but can't compare to some of the newer electric materials handling vehicles such as from FLUX Power, for one example. I used to travel a lot in Europe on business and on occasion returned rental cars to Schipol Airport with almost 5,000 kms on them after a week. They could hardly believe it possible. I will pick up my Aptera in California and take it camping in Death Valley, before driving up to Washington State and then eventually to Iowa and perhaps further east. I am likely to have seen temperatures from 50 down to -30 C by the end of next year, and will report on the performance and power use under many conditions.
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  213. Lack of experience with the testing Elaphe has done under 10 ft of water?
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  214. Chris Anthony is 6'4. There is video of much taller people sitting comfortably in prototypes. There will be some who are not too comfortable, but very few of them due to their height.
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  215. They are actually planning one for Australia eventually. Homologation is a requirement for every market.
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  216.  @billsmith5960  I never said there was a video. I have heard about it from people who were there. (there could be) I will post video of my experience in Iowa snow.
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  217.  @billsmith5960  difference would be that if you were to say that, you would be lying. I don't don't think you would want to be known as a liar, would you? I will show video of my Aptera performing (or not) in the snow in Iowa when I take delivery of mine.
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  218.  @billsmith5960  I didn't call you a liar, and I see you don't want to play that game. Good for you.
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  219. There is no solo drive wheel - they have either 2 or AWD. It is likely that the laws will change regarding the class Aptera needs to be tested for.
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  220. It is made in San Diego with some major parts from Europe.
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  221.  @farklestaxbaum4945  How is San Diego worse?
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  222. There is room in the back to sleep a couple. Some of us will live in it while we take camping trips. Heck, my wife and I have managed that on camping trips with a motorcycle. Aptera will be far more comfortable.
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  223. Not by itself, but it is sure slowing the destruction.
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  224. I wonder why you say EVs are worse than ICE vehicles?
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  225. Of course they aren't.
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  226.  @Hyperion1722  Yes, but even if it is coal being burned, EVs are still far better. Some are 90% efficient or better at converting the power, where as the best coal plants are perhaps 32% to 33% efficient. In Iowa, where I live, 62% of the grid power comes from wind. If you include all the factors producing environmental damage from extraction of the fuel to the waste produced and line losses in the grid - EV's are better..
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  227.  @Hyperion1722  I am not defending the use of coal. I have spent decades doing detection and remediation all over the world from both petroleum and coal plants. In the case of coal it is not only just the carbon contribution. The spreading of mercury down wind from the plants is another poison that has been spread. However, in the course of that work, monitoring coal, petroleum, and all kinds of mining, I have seen the studies regarding the relative environmental harm of all kinds of energy production, distribution, and use. There are plenty that have been done with the intention of arguing a specific economic case, but EVs come out significantly ahead, and vehicles such as the Aptera, indeed get into the 90+ range. They completely lack many of the sources of energy loss that almost all other EVs have.
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  228. There will be validation testing on the production intent vehicles early next year. I would expect there could be up to 30% range reduction in Iowa, where I live.
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  229. No one who has ridden in a prototype, including my wife and I, would say that.
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  230. I plan to take mine to Badwater in Death Valley on picking it up from the factory if road access is there. I am not worried about hill performance.
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  231. Aptera's form is pure function - it is not a fashion statement.
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  232. Aptera has never been :an Elio Motors. They have real suppliers and management with a history of founding successful companies.
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  233. The Aptera body shape is not a fashion statement and can't go out of style. The physics wont change, nor will the desire of many people to save money through value.
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  234.  @Okurkaarrgghh  I see you don't read all my posts - I don't expect you to. Of course I often mention it - it is a volunteer, unpaid position. I also am a small investor which gives me a personal financial stake in Aptera's outcome. My advice to everyone has always been that no one should invest anything in Aptera Corp that they can't afford to lose completely, so don't do anything merely on my example. I don't mention other parts of my biography, either, such as submitting the first proposal to the US EPA for a non- global warming refrigeration system under the SNAP program. The US has now ratified an ISO standard that makes it US law going forward. My support for Aptera comes from decades of work, including travel to Kuwait during the fighting to work with the Kuwaiti EPA on the pollution issues stemming from the fires. I use my own name and don't hide behind a pseudonym as you do.
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  235. I will report on my experience in Iowa. Since it has great traction control, I think the AWD models will be fine.
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  236.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Don't you believe in math? More than one third party has verified the possibility. It is easy to look it up. They have already talked about how the batteries will be packaged.
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  237. The first vehicles will have 400 mile range when the batteries are full. The 40 mile solar range in California exceeds the daily average commute.
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  238. Elio was a scam. The same due diligence that told me that tells me that Aptera Corp is nothing like them.
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  239. ​ @TheStonedAge  his first Aptera is a niche vehicle. It has just proven through paid pre-orders to be a much larger niche than even Aptera themselves realized. If you read their SEC report, they plan .like Tesla, ion introducing new models in the future that have much larger market potential.
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  240.  @Palbizu  Thank you for your comment. The current company is a brand new one, established in 2019. The old company, Aptera, Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. Idealab appointed a CEO from Detroit who apparently never wanted to build the vehicle he was hired for. He threw out the founders in 2009, but couldn't get funding for his alternative plans, and liquidated the company in 2011 (They never went bankrupt as so many on line claim). Steve and Chris have run other successful companies, including a lithium battery company he took public as CEO before he started Aptera Corp. and brought back Steve Fambro and other key people from the original company. This happened in 2019. Progress has been good compared to most new automotive startups, including Tesla after the same time frame.
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  241.  @garrettlowell7637  Aptera already has dramatically more paid pre-orders than companies such as Lucid and Fisker who are offering more "mass market" vehicles. It appears that the market has already decided, and the demand frankly caught the company by surprise. It became clear that vacuum resin infusion wasn't going to cut it for the volume required, and is the reason for the delay in production. A side effect is a rather dramatic increase in quality, from "kit car like" to having more akin to supercars. It is still a niche vehicle - but a larger niche than anyone had imagined.
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  242. Aptera is making their drawings available to any company that wants to supply after market parts.
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  243. For those where an Ebike will meet their needs, sure. For most of us the Aptera meets needs that an Ebike can't.
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  244. Aptera will be third party tested and rated to FMVSS part 200 crash test standards just like any car. Unlike many other cars, especially SUVs, the results will be made public.
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  245. That number is probably about right on average - but remember that is free power. You can get 13 miles of range per hour plugged into a standard 110 outlet - 2.5 times the range you would get on a Tesla Model 3 - or 400 miles of range in an hourr at 50 kWDC.
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  246. The sight lines will be different in the PI vehicles.
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  247. Yes, hidden under the front cowl.
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  248. I live in Iowa and will be taking delivery of an early model. I don't think you are correct. I will be showing video of the performance in snow when I have a chance- good or bad.
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  249. They will be using taller cells for the 600 and 1000 mile range vehicles. These cells have been announced but are not yet on the market.
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  250. I suggest you ride in one when you have a chance. It will be an eye opener.
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  251. The next planned model is a 5 seater.
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  252. Oh, the kit car with a non-existent motor claimed to go into production "any day now"? Look up who co-founded Flux Power and took it public as CEO.
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  253. Probably not on the first models. Likely later.
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  254. The second Aptera is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel sedan.
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  255. Aptera WILL be crash tested by a third party to NHTSA and FMVSS part 200 standards and the ratings published - unlike many cars sold in the US now. They are voluntarily doing many things that aren't required by the regs for safety - such as installing driver's side and passenger air bags. Do your research before you comment.
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  256. No, it is 2.5 times more efficient!
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  257. Form follows function is a much more solid basis than fickle fashion.
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  258. Aptera has had prototypes out on the road. My wife and I have both ridden in one.
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  259. Aptera is presently expected to start at $25,900 for the 250 mile range base version. Final pricing has not been announced yet, but $48,300 has not been suggested by anyone associated with the company.
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  260. Do your research and learn the facts. I have.
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  261. ​ @jerkychew899 32 cu ft and evough room to sleep a couple on camping trips. It has more room than our present two seater. It will be less expensive to drive and do more with more fun.
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  262. I will let you know how mine does in Iowa.
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  263. The original company was a partnership with Idealab. They hired a guy from Detroit to be CEO and he kicked out the founders in 2009 in a board coup. He never wanted to built the vehicle he was hired for. They didn't go bankrupt, but he couldn't raise funds for his 4 wheel car idea, and liquidated the company in 2011. Both founders started and ran successful new companies before starting Aptera Corp in 2019.
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  264. The Aptera shape was designed in 1982 by A. Morelli.
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  265. Aptera has designed in crumple zones that model well. Soon you will see the ratings from physical crash testing.
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  266. Which sold 1/2 million copies...
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  267.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Check the Wiki: "Approximately half a million Reliant vehicles were produced and sold in at least nine countries. For a period from the 1970s until the 1990s," - The company produced up to two million vehicles over a 65-year history starting in 1935,
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  268. No. They are just making parts for the body now. The first Production Intent vehicles will be finished early next year and begin validation testing, including crash testing. As that occurs we will be getting final specs and pricing, and the first deliveries could start as soon as the end of next Summer.
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  269. You will soon regret how this comment will make you appear...
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  270. Do your due diligence. You can see that they have raised far more than $20M from the SEC filings and have doubled their cash position since last year's report. I have ridden in a prototype - and not a "kit car" mockup like Elio was showing.
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  271. The looks come from the performance design - not the other way aroujnd.
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  272. No they didn't. They got ejected from the company they founded by their partners, who failed when they abandoned their plans. It was the fault of a Detroit engineer that Idealab hired as a CEO. Both founders have since run successful companies, and Aptera Corp is now producing the Production Intent vehicles for validation.
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  273. "this thing" is a far cry from what was being planned in 2007, and far more capable.
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  274. The body design was created by A. Morelli in 1982. There have been several vehicles designed with this general shape since, but Aptera Corp, the builder was started in 2019.
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  275. The original prototypes had dual headlights in front. The present arrangement is to comply with US law.
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  276. Neither the company nor the vehicle from 20 years ago are the same.
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  277. It is not designed to be a mass market vehicle, but your other points are easy to dismiss with a bit more research. There is enough room in back to sleep a couple on camping trips. The FMVSS third party crash tests will dismiss your safety concerns. The beta model has already passed the moose test.
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  278.  @rbhe357  You said "Too impractical for nearly everyone." Most people don't take their families with them to work. It will be practical for many who have a commute. It already passes the moose test, which means the stability is better than many 4 wheel cars on US roads.
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  279. I rode in a slower prototype, and even it blew my mind. Once people experience the performance of the production vehicles the demand will explode - they are MAJOR fun.
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  280. I will report on how mine performs in Iowa.
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  281. No one wants to get T-boned.
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  282. Do some due diligence. You are guessing because it is clear that you haven't. The last company Chris Anthony cofounded, he took public as CEO and both founders have other successful startups in their history.
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  283. I will let you know how mine does in Iowa. Initial results of a prototype on a Swiss ski slope were good.
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  284. The ban will come because continued use of gas/diesel will kill a billion people over the next century. What is debt compared to you and your family getting to live?
    1
  285.  @TheDieselndust  Compare that to a Tesla Model 3 that might get 60 miles under the same conditions!
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  286.  @LordSaliss  You have your math wrong. the 150 overnight range mentioned is from a 115 VAC outlet, not a 240. The Aptera will get 2.5 times the range of a Model 3 from the same amount of power. The same ration applies whether the power source is 115 VAC - 240 VAC, or 400 VDC.
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  287.  @oldrrocr  But there has been, and there may be new breakthroughs occurring right now. Aptera is using the most efficient, longest lived cells in mass production at the moment and has developed new controller and encapsulation tech that they may soon be supplying to other companies as well.
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  288. I do I did the same due diligence I did on Aptelastra. The two companies and their management have little in common. The motor that Elio claimed never existed. Aptera founders have a record of starting successful business. The last company Chris Anthony co-founded he took public as CEO.
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  289. The tires will be very easy to change, especially the front ones.
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  290. My first Honda Insight was rear ended at 65 mph by an SUV driver who fell asleep. I was uninjured and found another to replace it. The Aptera is likely to be safer that that was in a similar accident.
    1
  291. Not even close to a comparable application, or much similarity of material
    1
  292. You can't even count. Aptera Corp was only founded in 2019. Do some due diligence worthy of your user name.
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  293. You will change your tune once you have a chance to ride in one, as my wife and I have. You might have missed that it has outrageous performance and is far safer than a motorcycle- while offering far more utility - hardly a gimmick.
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  294. Suspicion is good. Do your due diligence, including reading the SEC reports.
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  295. The base model was announced with a target price of $25.9K in 2020.
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  296. @Sony-ox7wx Both vehicles have gone through significant changes since they were announced. However, even with the huge upgrade in design from a vacuum resin infusion body to carbon fiber and SMC, the value proposition has only increased. For those that seldom need a 4 door car, the cost of ownership and the environmental burdebn of an Aptera, and the likely service life are all vastly improved over a Bolt. Also, for those who want to go camping, the Aptera can sleep two people who are considerably taller in vastly more comfort than if it were tried in a Bolt. Aptera is a perfect weekend camping vehicle.
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  297. Yes. It will be crash tested to FMVSS Part 200 automotive standards by a third party and the results published.
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  298. around 13 miles per hour plugged into a 115 vac outlet - more if 220.
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  299. If you have a 115 volt AC outlet in your garage, you can gain 13 miles of range per hour of plug time. The power will cost you a little, but far less than gasolene would.
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  300. The vehicle that is being built now in carbon fiber and SMC is far more advanced than the vacuum resin infusion one originally planned. It is taking longer, but the increase in quality will be well worth it.
    1
  301. While Aptera only has 2 seats, it is nothing like a motor bike. I have around 1/2 million miles on motorbikes, and have ridden in an Aptera prototype. Aptera outperforms my present car in every way as a car.
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  302.  @Martin-se3ij  You are correct that the Aptera is a niche market vehicle. The company originally expected that they would sell around 4,000 copies. They were rather surprised when well over 40,000 pre-orders came in and the numbers are still climbing. It required a complete redesign of the vehicle to change the manufacturing methods. Aptera has 32 cu ft of space - and enough room to sleep a couple in the back. It is bigger than our present Honda and far less expensive to run, with far greater performance. I think many people have a mistaken idea regarding the size. As far as crash safety, Aptera will be voluntarily crash tested by a third party to the same FMVSS part 200 standards that cars are tested to - and the results will be published, unlike many SUVs on the American market.
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  303.  @Martin-se3ij  This just shows that you don't understand the nature of the space Aptera offers. My wife and I have done a lot of motorcycle camping - by choice- and Aptera will be luxury in comparison. It is not designed for the role of a London taxi, so that is hardly a valid criticism.
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  304. 4 wheels would decrease performance to a major degree, due to increased wind resistance, rolling resistance, weight, and cost. It was not designed the way it is for "looks".
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  305. It will be crash tested to automotive standards, and the ratings will be published. It is designed to do well.
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  306. I was SHOCKed when I rode a prototype! AWD is considerably faster out the gate than the Tesla Roadster was unless they broke the transmission. People won't understand how much fun these are until they experience them in person.
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  307. It should be good down to at least -20 F. It has superior traction control, especially in the AWD models. They can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. I will report on my experience in Iowa.
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  308. No it hasn't. Aptera Corp was founded in 2019 and started their design then. Perhaps you are confusing them with the Aptera, Inc. that was founded in 2005 as a parnership with Idealab. Different company, different CEO and completely different vehicle. That company kicked out the original founders in 2009, and liquidated in 2011. The new vehicle uses so little power - 2.5 times less than the Tesla Model 3 for the same EPA range, that even the 4000 or so watt hours that the panels can provide in the American Southwest can provide a significant contribution. In fact even in Iowa, I can probably meet my daily driving needs from the lower solar insolation we get here.
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  309.  @runcycleskixc  This is easy to research. The Aptera full solar covers around 3m^2 and produces around 700 watts peak. Or over 40 miles of range in the Southwest. (we will know more exactly once the PI vehicles in production now are validated) I live in Iowa, where I will likely only get 1/2 the distance, but since I live in a small town, I am likely to meet most of my driving needs from solar alone much of the year, including an occasional round trip to Des Moines or Kansas City. By the way, it is the potential customers who have signed up for the now many more than 40K pre-orders. Aptera has had to make a major design change to meet the unexpectedly large demand, and has responded wonderfully. No failures here.
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  310.  @runcycleskixc  Every watt/hr. the Aptera produces is one that doesn't have to be sourced from the grid - a huge cumulative social benefit. The price target originally announced for the 250 mile version was $25,900. It remains to be seen where they end up, but battery costs have been dropping and the new production design will require far less labor and produce less waste, while vastly increasing the quality over the original vacuum resin infusion design. It will be interesting to see where they land on price, but the vehicle that will be delivered will be vastly superior to what was originally foreseen.
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  311.  @runcycleskixc  I certainly understand your thinking. Aptera was looking into using hemp fiber for bodies initially, so they concure. The carbon fiber/SMC that Aptera will be using has the advantage that the amount of scrap is much smaller than with vacuum resin infusion, and it produces a more precisely fitting and stranger part. In addition, the carbon fiber is produced from polyacrylonitrile and coal pitch, and what scrap there is can be recycled multiple times.
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  312. That probably won't be the only way to do it.
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  313. You might want to look at the actual history of both founders. The original Aptera Inc. only failed years after their partner, Idealab, appointed a Detroit CEO who organized their dismissal from the board in 2009, and couldn't fund his new, very different program. He paid back the pre-order deposits, paid off the vendors, and liquidated the company in 2011. Nothing scummy about Steve and Chris. They both founded new successful companies in new fields. Chris co-founded and took his new company public as CEO- one which has already made me a lot of money. Aptera is in far better financial shape right now than Tesla was at the same stage in 2008. Do some due diligence. That doesn't mean there is no risk. No one should invest money that they can't afford to lose, but if the vehicle could serve your needs, placing a pre-order is almost risk free.
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  314. Yes. Hood, dash, roof, and rear deck.
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  315. The batteries for the first models use NMC chemistry.. The hub motors have several levels of regenerative braking available. Future models may introduce new control software that could provide differential steering.
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  316.  @fg3554  I will report on my experience i Iowa. Since the traction control can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel, it will probably do well in snow with the proper tires.
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  317. Perhaps your sense of value is skewed.
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  318. It is unlikely because the cover-up of the environmental damage this alliance has been doing is no longer as successful as it has been for at least half a century. And once people start discovering in person how much FUN these are, nothing will stop it.
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  319. More like utopian.
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  320.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Luck won't be needed. The engineering will be revealed in another video soon.
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  321.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Why wait?
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  322.  @bluetoad2668  Pity you make comments with no information behind them.
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  323.  @Okurkaarrgghh  The lack of self awareness is obvious to all of us.
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  324.  @jonathanfields4ever  Any early stage business is risky, for sure. I do too. I no longer have the doubts I once did, however. We consumers have spoken with well over 45,000 deposits. There is far more passionate interest in Aptera than there was for Tesla's first car, for good reason.
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  325.  @bubblefoil  While the body has a carbon fiber tub, most of the body parts are SMC, which can easily be fixed or replaced.
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  326.  @Mrbfgray  That possibility was very likely at one time, but now that the body molds have all been finished and are producing validated parts, and the manufacturing data control system is in place and being tested, that possibility has become quite small.
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  327.  @drill_fiend1097  Aptera is not "delaying". They are responding to reasonable action adjusting to both demand and funding levels - and doing a better job of it than Tesla did starting out, or many other companies. The care they are taking is WHY the need to be taken seriously. I can say this having worked as a supplier to many startup and established companies.
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  328.  @Okurkaarrgghh  In most cases, all that will be needed is a plug kit and DC inflator.
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  329. Correct. Batteries in the required form factor on on the drawing boards, but don't exist yet.
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  330. Yes, this is not different than any other EV, but due to the extreme efficiency of moving the vehicle, the relative impact on range of operating the HVAC system could be greater.
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  331.  @SevenDeMagnus  Yes, there is nothing wrong with prayer and fasting, certainly. Hope has to have some basis, and your invoking a camara tripod indicates that you don't understand the physics involved. The center of mass in your example is vastly higher and there is no comparison in the amount of force needed, or where it could be applied where the tires wouldn't just slide. There are now over 48,000 paid pre-orders, and this is before most people have even heard of the vehicle - let alone experienced it. Once that happens, orders will explode.
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  332. Even for an economy vehicle, the 4 second AWD performance is surprising and big fun.
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  333. Aptera still fits in a compact parking space with room to spare. Every design makes engineering trade-offs. For most of us the HUMVEE would be a huge loser in comparison for our everyday driving needs.
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  334. The EV-1 was a wonderful vehicle for its time - they just never sold them. All of them were recalled and scrapped.
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  335. It has a wiper under the cowel.
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  336. Elio was an obvious fraud from the beginning. The same due diligence that showed me that back in the day, also showed me that Aptera is for real.
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  337. Only because you were apparently too lazy to understand engineering or math in school. I feel sorry for you.
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  338. Yes to all, except perhaps the radio.
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  339. Not the same company. The original founders were ousted by the Detroit CEO in a board coup in 2009, because he wanted to built a 4 wheel car instead. He liquidated the company in 2011 when he couldn't raise funds. They never went bankrupt.
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  340.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Do your research. The original Aptera Inc. never went bankrupt. The founders were removed in a board coup in 2009, and the Detroit CEO couldn't raise funds for his 4 wheel concept, so he liquidated the company. The new Aptera Corp is a different company with a different product.
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  341. I will be getting an early model in Iowa, and will report on the performance. I think it will do well in winter, for a number of reasons. Of course it won't have the solar only range it does in the summer.
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  342. My wife and I worried about that, but our ride in a prototype didn't confirm our fears.
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  343. As someone who has almost 1/2 million miles on motorcycles - not as bad. It will be crash tested to automotive standards and the results published.
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  344. Thank you!
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  345. I own a Gen 1 Honda Insight and it serves me well. But I have also ridden in an Aptera prototype. It is a much larger vehicle, will cost much less to operate, and is FAR more fun with 4 second 0-60 performance in the AWD version - hardly Honda Insight territory.
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  346. It will insure as an autocucle - typically less than cars, although that will change as loss experience grows.
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  347.  @squirts1  Basically what I said. Several companies who already insure vehicles such as the Slingshot have already provided Aptera quotes. As far as willingness of mechanics to work on a unique vehicle, due to the right to repair policy, every independent mechanic I have asked about it around me in rural Iowa can't wait.
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  348. That is a bet you would lose if you were to compare it to any other car. Even extracting the battery materials is less damaging than the continued production of petroleum.
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  349.  @bobhilder1469  I rode in a prototype. I just backed up to the seat and sat straight down, and then swiveled my legs in. Easy-peazey.
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  350. you are correct that it is not a mass market vehicle. However, I live in Iowa, and have no worries about snow or gravel roads, based on a ride in a prototype.
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  351. That was a completely different car and company. Their partners appointed a Detroit CEO who wanted to build a 4 wheel car instead and kicked out the founders in 2009. The current company, Aptera Corp. is organized so that is unlikely to happen again. The deposit is only $100 (or $70) discounted, and is held in escrow so it can be refunded at any time if your plans change.
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  352.  @Okurkaarrgghh  False. However, there was a major change in the schedule when 10 times the expected number of pre-orders came in and Aptera switched from the original vacuum resin infusion body used in the prototypes, to body components produced by super car body part builder CPC. This greatly reduces the cost per part, with a large increase in the quality. First deliveries are now expected by the end of summer, depending on how the validation and funding go.
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  353. My wife and I rode in a prototype and had no issues. It certainly wasn't completely representative of what the final vehicle will be like. We will reserve judgement, and report on our own experience when we take delivery.
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  354. It is an upgrade to my current car in every single way. You haven't looked into it, obviously.
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  355. Even the very first LE models will have AC.
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  356. The answer would depend on the size of the battery pack and the local solar insolation, but it won't take years. You can easily find the data for your location.
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  357.  @mansourkhatib  Irani hastid? Kheli Khoshvatam! If your name is Arabic, Salaam! I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles - and I have ridden in an Aptera prototype. I do have some ability to compare from experience. Aptera has said that the full solar retail price is about a $900 upgrade. The environmental benefit is such that including it as standard provides a significant reduction in the social cost of the vehicle. I am going to guess that they may not offer other than full solar once they go into production. Vehicles without the solar hatch will need to be crash tested again to have the same confidence in the crash performance - even though there is no legal requirement to do so due to the classification in the US.
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  358. The beta model passes the Moose Test. Roush Performance designed the suspension.
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  359. While Aptera is defined legally as a motorcycle or autocycle, depending on where you live, for most owners the functionality and legal requirements such as licensing and insurance will be much more car like. Your statements are about as accurate as your spelling.
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  360. I don't have to "imagine" Both my wife and I have ridden a prototype that was pre-Roush suspension re-design. It even did well hitting speed bumps at speed in that state. I live in Iowa, and will be driving on gravel roads in all weather. Based on my experience, I have no worries about the performance of the production models under those conditions. When you have a chance - try one out!
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  361.  @dr123hall  That could happen. There are always people not paying attention. I used to own and drive a stepvan that was wider than the Aptera the entire length of the vehicle and could still fit in a compact parking space (96") wide. I never got clipped in that, but it was big enough to see. I suspect that the Aptera is striking enough in appearance that people will notice it, too - perhaps more than most introverts would like.
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  362. Aptera does plan a 5 passenger vehicle for their next one, but that is a while off, yet.
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  363. 32 cu ft of space, and enough room to sleep a couple on camping trips.
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  364.  @ghoulie11  No, there is no rear window. That space is covered by the main solar panels. There is a cargo net to prevent things shifting forward in a panic stop. Your rear view is maintained by both mirrors and cameras.
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  365. They are basically only there for legal reasons. Cameras and a display in front of the driver will provide the function.
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  366. Yes. Multiple levels in the production vehicles. It isn't hooked up in the gamma prototype.
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  367. Aptera has never presented this first model as anything more than a niche vehicle. Pre-orders have proven that niche to be much larger than they expected. Their SEC reports show plans for more mass market follow on vehicles, following the model of Tesla.
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  368. Except possibly for Alaska at this point the laws have changed.
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  369. A motorcycle or an autocycle, depending on your state. However, it has the functionality and safety of a car.
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  370. The company didn't even exist in 2018. Do a bit of research before you comment.
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  371. My wife an d I have ridden in a prototype that was better than a car we used to own. There are now many videos of people riding in the gamma prototype with comments about ride quality and noise. The PI vehicles are being assembled now and will be even better. The Aptera hub motors weigh just over 50 lbs - not a huge difference to design a suspension to handle. Some steel wheels alone weigh more than that.
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  372.  @craigsj  I recommend that you learn to do some math Aptera hub motors and wheels most certainly do not weigh 110 lbs. Aptera wheels are not made from steel. The handling is superior to many cars, due to the lower center of gravity, the much better traction control, and the lack of buffeting from semis and wind. Take a look at the recent Aging Wheels "Your wrong about Aptera" for a start I will be posting my experiece of an early model year round in rural Iowa.
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  373.  @craigsj  You have a short memory. from your post: "Some steel wheels alone weigh more than that." The Production Intent validation vehicles are being assembled right now, and will soon be undergoing validation testing, including 3rd party crash testing and the results will be public. If you don't like what other reviewers are saying, ride in a prototype yourself. I have, as have many others. In less than a year from now, if no major issues come up during validation, there will be vehicles in customer hands. I am a small investor, but not because I expect to make a fortune.
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  374. The design and company you saw in 2005 are not the same as the Aptera Corp and EV you see today. This company and design began in 2019.
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  375.  @piccalillipit9211  I like the Nobe design, but it won't be nearly as safe to drive, or have the same performance.
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  376.  @glennv3176  Of course it works at night. It can be recharged at any NACS charging station or gain 13 miles per hour of range plugged into a 110 vac outlet.
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  377. Aptera Corp and the design of this vehicle were only started in 2019. However the rest of your comments are spot on. I have ridden in an Aptera prototype. The AWD launch editions will achieve in the neighborhood of 4 second 0-60 times with a 400 mile EPA range. They are truly fun!
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  378.  @NP-co7kj  this is easy to research. The automotive X-prize competition was held in 2010, after Steve and Chris had already left the company. The Aptera Inc. entry dropped out after 30 laps. The vehicle that was designed in 2019 uses wheel motors and has a drive train nothing like the earlier vehicle.
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  379.  @NP-co7kj  You must think that two twins are the same person. Get a clue! There have been several vehicles shaped like Aptera that had nothing to do with the founders of either company. The body design was created by A. Morelli in 1982, and the shape has been used by a number of different builders. There is not a single part of the present Aptera in common with the original design, nor size, nor drive train concept. Aptera Corp. and the former Aptera, Inc. were legally different companies with different corporate structures. The fact that you think they are the same thing is not hilarious - it is really sad.
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  380.  @NP-co7kj  You have already told us that an Aptera competed for the X prize after Aptera Inc., which built that vehicle had closed. You don't seem to be able to do proper research. The present vehicle is being designed and built by Aptera Corp. - a different company. The vehicle design is completely different. This one is a pure electric vehicle with a wheel motor drive train. It does NOT look identical to an engineer. The goal of reducing power waste from air resistance and other sources is common to several automotive designers.
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  381.  @NP-co7kj  I suggest you look into the history of the founders for the answers to your questions. It is clear you haven't. Anybody can see you have been quoting a false time line regarding the history.
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  382.  @NP-co7kj  Did you forget what you wrote? "No, it was in the first X-Prize in 2011 and was around in 2009." What is your point? It is not clear to me at all. However, let me apologize for my tone. I wasn't in a great frame of mind, i guess. Let me respond to what is really important: Merry Christmas to you and your family!
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  383.  @NP-co7kj  Who cares about the truth? I do. You don't seem to. Thanks for letting us all know.
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  384. I will be driving my AWD model in Iowa and will be reporting on the performance. The traction control system makes me think that it will be rather good with snow tires compared to other similar sized vehicles.
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  385. I will be driving mine year 'round in Iowa, and report. The ABS/Traction control is superior.
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  386. Not sure what the question is. As long as the panels get some sun, they can charge the batteries.
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  387. It will be crash tested to FMVSS part 200 safety standards - the same ones cars are tested to- and the results will be published. FWI, Carbon fiber and SMC make up most of the body - among the strongest materials available.
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  388.  @IHateThisHandleSystem  "when there are only 50 lbs of it making up the car," - of course, when you make faulty assumptions, you reach faulty conclusions. There will be plenty of information coming out, including the crash test ratings, that will show you how misinformed you are.
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  389. What makes you say that? I intend to drive mine in Iowa year 'round. You know that you can gain 130 miles overnight by plugging into a standard 115 volt AC outlet, don't you?
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  390.  @AdamsLab  Oregon Coast conditions aren't Southern California where most of the early buyers are located. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the performance of the Maxeon cells that Aptera is using. It is the area where Aptera has the most IP, that still needs protection. We will be finding out more details with the 3rd party validation work on the validation models that will be on the road soon.
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  391.  @AdamsLab  Perhaps you didn't notice that I will be driving one of the first of the vehicles year 'round in Iowa.
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  392. Only because you don't understand aerodynamics. There are no flat surfaces for the wind to exert pressure on. At speed there is downforce built into the design.
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  393. Aptera is a right to repair company so they will provide all the information that someone who wanted to do this might require. However, that begs the question of why?
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  394. Yes.
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  395. This will depend greatly on the solar insolation at your location and which size battery pack you have. Another way to think of charging time would be 13 miles per hour of range gain plugged into a 115 VAC outlet.
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  396. I have ridden in one. Both my wife and I were worried about that, but it turns out not to be an issue.
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  397. Three wheels is not just to improve aerodynamics. It also lowers, cost, weight, and rolling resistance. A prototype passed the Moose test.
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  398. Once you see the crash testing results you won't think so...
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  399. You will get about 2.5 times the distance of a Tesla model 3 for the same amount of power if you plug it in. Perhaps you are overlooking what the efficiency does for you. The first model will have 400 mile range at EPA speeds.
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  400.  @shrimptopian3392  You could get a bicycle for even less and have almost as good a performance. You need to look at the details a bit more closely, especially once the crash test validation work is done. This comment will not age well at all.
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  401. The irony is that this vehicle will not be turning our atmosphere into a gas chamber like most of our current ones do.
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  402. The beta model already passes the Moose Test.
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  403. Aptera Corp. was founded in 2019, and the drive layout has been the same since the beginning. What has changed was the original plan to use vacuum resin infusion production for the body. When reservations unexpectedly made the production volume necessary exceed the capacity that could reasonably be produced that way, the vehicle was redesigned for SMC and carbon fiber production at CPC in Italy. The tools have all been finished and are producing validated parts. They still have to assemble the Production Intent vehicles and do the validation testing. Deliveries are likely to start at the end of next year, or in early 2025. You seem to be confusing Aptera Corp with the earlier Aptera Inc. which was a completely different company that was a joint venture with Idealab. They hired a CEO from Detroit who didn't want to build the vehicle he was hired for, and managed to eject the original founders in 2009. He couldn't raise funding for his different plans and oversaw an orderly voluntary liquidation of the company in 2011. You need to do some due diligence before mis-representing the history. They went on to found other successful companies.
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  404.  @OCofthe3  They are not only legally different, the structure is different and there is not a single part, dimension, or even drive train concept in common with the original vehicle plan. It is not a "continuation" as you say. The original Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab, and it failed because the Idealab appointed Detroit CEO kicked out Steve and Chris in 2009, and it was his changed direction that failed. By the way, I have already made a lot of money in the company Chris Anthony co-founded and took public as CEO after he left Aptera Inc. and before he started Aptera Corp in 2019.
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  405. I would be interested in which model, and what the cost per mile is to drive it?
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  406. So that the bottom part could roll down without destroying the aerodynamics.
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  407. Far less consequential than an accident on a motorcycle - and I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles.
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  408. I think we will see a huge aftermarket mod underground develop for this vehicle, even though most "appearance" mods won't be my thing.
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  409. I plan to drive mine year round in rural Iowa, and will report on the performance when the time comes.
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  410. I live in Iowa and will be getting an early model. The traction control can sense wheel slip and adjust torque about every 2.5" of tread travel. I think with proper tires it will be fine. I will report on my experience.
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  411.  @Okurkaarrgghh  There are plenty of vehicles on UK roads at present that are wider than Aptera. They have homologation experts at work on this issue, and there are several potential paths to get there.
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  412. Aptera offers right to repair, and even here in Iowa, I have independent shops that can't wait to work on it. I bet this is true where you live too, if you aren't handy yourself.
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  413. It will be registered as an autocycle or motorcycle. Yes, it will have a plate on the back.
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  414. Aptera's second planned vehicle will likely be a 5 seat, 4 wheel vehicle. they talk about this in their SEC reports. You may be hearing more when Aptera plans to go public, once this first vehicle is launched.
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  415. Nothing about Aptera is a fashion statement. It is pure form follows function.
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  416. To be fair, $25,900 was their base price target. There are no plans for dealers at this point at all. The first several thousand vehicles will be picked up by their buyers directly from the factory in California. I plan to come from Iowa to get mine in person.
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  417.  @Xerrea  Aptera holds all of the deposit money in escrow.
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  418. You will be making that sound yourself when you experience the acceleration first hand!
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  419. I live in Iowa, and will be getting an early model. I will report on my experience.
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  420. The company and design only started in 2019. There have been previous vehicles with similar ideas behind them by ideas such as the previous Aptera Inc. (a different company), BMW, and Honda The Aptera Corp vehicle tech is new. The entire drive train is completely different.
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  421. Ride in one before you decide..... I have.
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  422. ​ @niftytheviking I like to make up my mind on actual evidence. I was surprised when I rode in a prototype, but I won't decide until I experience a production model.
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  423.  @niftytheviking  This just shows you are making up your mind without actually understanding the design. The Aptera side window is not divided in half. There is video of an Aptera at the drive through getting an order with no difficulty. You are making a decision based on a false assumption.
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  424. This particular design began in 2019 with a wheel motor drive train and solar panels. Friction points were eliminated where ever possible to make as much use of the available power as they could.
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  425. Aptera Corp was only founded in 2019.
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  426. The way Aptera Corp is structured, it is unlikely that any company can buy them out. The founders learned that lessen when they formed a partnership with Idealab for the first Aptera, Inc.
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  427. Yes. There is even video of it taken with a prototype.
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  428. This will not be available at first, but will come from new, taller form factor batteries that are coming.
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  429. There has been video of a prototype driving in snow in Switzerland. They even drove it on a ski slope with the snow above the bottom of the wheel covers.
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  430. The initial announced price for the base model was $25,900, when they were announced. The first model produced will not be the base model. We won't know final pricing until they are closer to shipping. The good news is that battery cost- a major part of the total- has been dropping since pricing targets were first announced.
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  431. I was really worried about that until my wife and I rode in a prototype. We hardly noticed it. I suggest riding in a Production Intent version when you have a chance. I think you will be as surprised as we were.
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  432. The second Aptera is likely to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan, as mentioned in their SEC reports.
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  433. They have obtained a supply.
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  434. Neither the 600 or 1000 mile range batteries are in production yet - but they will be.
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  435. ​ @jameswilson4732 The windmill or water turbine are not getting their energy from the same system. If the wingmill was turning with wind blown by a fan or the if the water came from a pump driven by the same battery system you would have the same issue.
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  436.  @jameswilson4732  I suggest you look up the Wikipedia article on Perpetual Motion and read that, which explains why it can't work continuously in detail.
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  437. Because Tesla is so inefficient in comparison, that just slapping some solar panels on the roof will not add significant performance as it does for Aptera. Every watt gained by the Aptera drives it 2.5 times further than it would a Model 3.
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  438. Pay attention to my reports on how it does in snow when I start driving mine in Iowa.
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  439.  @darrenshebell3563  The same due diligence that quickly dismissed Elio, confirms the Aptera program. People making such comments have not seriously looked into it.
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  440. I live in Iowa and will post my experience with an early model. Aptera will be crash tested by a third party to pass FMVSS Part 200 crash tests, same as cars, and the results will be made public.
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  441. Crashing in anything could be. I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles and am really looking forward to my Aptera.
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  442. Different company and vehicle.
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  443. No, you are confusing it with a similar appearing vehicle. Different company and different design.
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  444. I rode in an early prototype and if felt like a kit car I once owned. The suspension has been greatly refined since then, but it is still likely more on the sports car side, rather than a plush ride.
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  445. Yes.
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  446. Aptera's second vehicle is planned to be a 5 passenger 4 wheel sedan. More details when they go public.
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  447. Not the case. There is no recharging infrastructure to speak of and little incentive to build it out. Hail will not make an Aptera inoperable. It is unlikely to even destroy the solar cells. This has already been thoroughly tested.
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  448. Comparing Aptera Corp and the vehicle with either the Dale or the Elio, indictes that you have not looked into it. Aptera has 3 wheels for sound engineering reasons to meet its design goals, and it is a legitimate company that is producing validated body parts now with expensive tooling. It won't be long before Production Intent vehicles will be undergoing validation testing, including to crash test standards that they don't legally have to meet to be offered for sale. They are a serious company and product.
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  449. How can you say that they aren't even trying when the panels are now glass covered and 40% lighter in weight than the original plastic covered ones. They are going to be extremely scratch resistant and among the most efficient available on the market, with a controller that adapts to shadows without a huge decrease in output? You apparently haven't looked into what they are doing.
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  450. Not correct.
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  451. Aptera has plans to eventually produce a full line of EVs, as revealed in their SEC reports. The next model is likely to be a 5 passenger sedan. They are putting their attention on this first model now, but more will be said about follow on models when they go public, after this first vehicle is shipping.
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  452. It is a partnership of two owners who lost their last vehicle company, and now have a record of success that incorporates what they learned. Chris Anthony took the last company he co-founded public as CEO.
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  453. The first Production Intent vehicles are being assembled now. The tooling has been finished and parts have been validated. They will be undergoing validation, including crash testing over the first few months, and depending on results, the first customer deliveries will start around the end of this year.
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  454. Every reservation helps get us all closer to our vehicles. Thank you!
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  455. The body design is many times stronger than a conventional vehicle with a passenger safety cage while still maintaining proper crumple zones and air bags.
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  456. Aptera was the very first third party company to have permission to use the NACS charger, and to push for its adoption.
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  457. With right to repair, owners can do what they wish to it.
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  458. No. Normal car wheels bolt on to the wheel motors as if they were drum brakes. You don't seem to understand what they are.
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  459. Hydrogen will never be a personal transportation solution. It is simple physics.
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  460. If he lives in a place like Calgary, CA, you try walking 3 miles this time of year - it could be life threatening.
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  461. You do know that the sun will be charging as much as 4,000 watt hours per day into the 45 kW battery pack of the first models, don't you? That will be enough to drive 40 miles in the US SW at EPA highway speeds. We will have more exact numbers once the validation testing has been completed on the PI models. I would call enough power to meet the daily driving needs of the average driver real solar power.
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  462.  @greatbigguy  Look at what you said. You don't have a point. In Iowa, I will probably only average 20 miles per day, but that is still more than my usual daily miles. It is likely that I can do an occasional round trip to Des Moines or Kansas City and STILL be only on solar. And, lets say I have to plug it in. Where I live, 63% of my grid power comes from wind.. And if you compare it to any other car - lets say a Tesla Model 3 at the same speed, I will still use 2.5 times LESS power, no mater what the source. The daily power expense will put dollars in your pocket no matter how much or how little you drive.
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  463.  @greatbigguy  And it could be completely wrong If I average less than the solar gain per day, which many owners will, I can drive up to 400 miles on this first version completely on solar power. It will have been completely generated and stored by the car. You are trying to mislead by ignoring the actual performance of the tech which will soon be publicly validated with the PI builds.
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  464. The Aptera wheels are standard automotive wheels that bolt on to the wheel motors as if they were drum brakes.
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  465. The "look" is pure form follows function. it is shaped the way it is to lower resistance and put more of the energy into actual transportation. It is not a "style" statement.
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  466. That is in the plans eventually, after they go public.
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  467. Different company and vehicle, but similar shape. This company was founded in 2019.
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  468. Not true. Aptera Corp was founded in 2019, and design was begun on this EV. The company originally expected an initial demand in the neighborhood of 4,000 vehicles. Paid reservations exceeded 3000 in a week and quickly grew - now past 48,000. The original plan was to build the vehicle with vacuum resin infusion, as are the prototypes. Such production doesn't scale well, and production was delayed so that it could be redesigned to be produced by CPC, a Supercar builder. The quality of the production vehicles has taken a major leap. The first Production Intent vehicles will be finished soon and validation testing will start. Depending on results we should start seeing shipping by the end of 2024 or start of 2025, if not before then.
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