Comments by "N. Bruce Nelson" (@n.brucenelson5920) on "Munro Live" channel.

  1.  @davefroman4700  Aptera has at least 4 patents on this. You could look them up. Also, active development still ongoing.
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  2. No it is not. Aptera, Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. They kicked out the original co-founders in 2009 to design a different vehicle and ran out of money and liquidated in 2011. Aptera Corp. is a brand new company with a different product, founded in 2019, about the same time the Cybertruck began development.
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  3.  @johnbuchman4854  You certainly haven't done any due diligence on Aptera.
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  4.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  They are far ahead of where Tesla was at the same relative point in time, both in terms of design maturity and financially.
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  5. It has been tested in 110 mile cross winds. It is more stable than most cars. There will be a 5 passenger model, but probably 4 wheels.
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  6.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  I don't see where Telsa has a current product that comes close to competing with Aptera's offering. Of course, if this first Aptera is successful, that could change in the future.
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  7.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  The Aptera has 32.5 cu ft of trunk space in back - enough to sleep a couple. The 2 place Tesla Roadster was even more impractical and cost about 3 times more to purchase, and more to power and drive as well.
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  8. And it is an honor to help it along. ( and more fun than measuring the air pollution from the fires in Kuwait), which I also did.
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  9. Yes. The second Aptera vehicle is planned to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  10.  @markplott4820  If you were a real person, you would have some evidence for such a claim, which you don't, of course.
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  11. The wheel motors are made by Elaphe. This morning they did Zoom meeting with the Aptera founders and answered many questions. A link will be posted to social media.
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  12. Right to repair was supported by Aptera from the beginning.
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  13. Automotive crash tests will be done and results shared before production begins.
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  14. The answer is likely to be that both companies are using some of the same third party suppliers.
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  15.  @paulmuresan8889  Ich habe deutsch an der Schule gelearnt, und nachher an die Uni im Freiburg im Br. studiert. :), I later learned to speak Persian and Japanese, which opened doors to jobs I wouldn't have otherwise gotten.
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  16. The next planned vehicle is a 5 seat, 4 wheel design.
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  17. The batteries will be actively cooled and have a first class BMS.
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  18. Electronics, suspension components, and a crumple zone. Edit: it looks like they have found the room for a small frunk, too. Design is evolving.
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  19.  @BlondieSuperdog  Thanks you for the good wishes. Tesla wasn't making money until long after they issued stock, and even then it came mostly from selling carbon credits. There are many other examples. Look at Lucid. Aptera probably won't be going public for 18 months or so. Chris Anthony has already taken a lithium battery company public and now has brought least two other people on board with a ton of experience in this area. These are people who could work anywhere. The fact that they have chosen Aptera should be instructive. Best of luck to you.
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  20. They are designed to do very well on standard automotive crash tests, unlike other 3 wheelers. The safety ratings will be published after the tests are performed later in the year.
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  21. Preorders have been accepted and a German expert is working on homologation. Probably mid 2022 or later for orders placed now.
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  22. Aptera will be crash tested by a third party to FMVSS part 200 standards and we will have the actual rating then.
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  23.  @TheGreatestJuJu  There are both front and rear crumple zones, air bags and an F1 style passenger safety cage. Wait for the crash tests.
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  24. Yes. Good for over 200 cm
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  25. Not the first time I have seen this question. My guess is yes, but I will be happy to test it when I take delivery if we don't know the answer yet.
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  26. Yes.
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  27. They will be showing the gamma model at Fully Charged Live in San Diego in a couple of weeks that is about 80% there. delta (production models) will be ready early next year.
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  28. Not unusual in California, sadly.
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  29. The separate parts come from third party suppliers that also supply Tesla and Mercedes (and probably others) They are not Tesla IP. The software interface was designed and programmed by Crank software of Canada.
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  30. NDAs.
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  31. The development vehicles will test these edge cases. The system is designed to operate well over a temperature range of -20 to 125 F. It should be fine in the Phoenix area, although going out of town up hill on a 6 or 7% grade for more than 10 minutes may result in some reduction of speed on a hot day as cooling limits are reached.
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  32.  @markplott4820  It is easy to be a hater when you have done zero research into it. You have zero evidence that this is the case.
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  33. I think they both use common 3rd party suppliers.
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  34.  @charlesbreaux5475  Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9_UTks8m9c
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  35. Yes. There are already preorders from Europe and the UK (don't know if I can include them now!)
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  36. Heating spec'd down to -20 F.
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  37. It will float, but nose down. You wouldn't want to test it.
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  38. Safety as as a big a focus of Aptera's design as efficiency. Crash testing to automotive safety standards will be carried out as soon as there are production ready vehicles available to test and the ratings will be public.
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  39. 2025 more likely.
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  40. More discussion on Reddit at r/ApteraMotors
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  41. The Aptera has a very innovative cooling system and BMS that will be covered by patents. When the car is not in motion, it won't be producing heat.
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  42. Many pickup trucks are wider and they use drive throughs all the time.
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  43. The braking performance will be fine because of the weight. 60-0 in under 120 ft.
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  44. Probably so. They are considering compatibility with various 3rd party adaptations for various handicaps.
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  45. From 400 to 1000 mile range 1800-2200 lbs. About the same as my Gen 1 Honda Insight.
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  46. 50 kW continuous or about 201 hp for the AWD version.
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  47.  @stevefambro189  Als Amerikaner auch, deine Antwort macht mir unheimlich Stoltz. Ich can auch Japanisch und Persisch.
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  48.  @TremereTT  Nein, es ist RPM begrenzt..
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  49.  @phamnuwen9442  I have worked in nuclear power (in the manufacture of fuel rods) and this is crazy. I don't have enough time to go into all the reasons why, but they include social factors as well as technical ones.
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  50.  @phamnuwen9442  The full cost of nuclear plants was deeply subsidised, just as OIl and Coal have been. If the playing field were level, at this point neither one would even be in the same league as to costs, compared to renewables and the difference is only going to increase.
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  51.  @phamnuwen9442  Not a fair measure because of the cost of decommissioning nuclear.
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  52. ​ @phamnuwen9442  Your points 3, 4, 7, and 8 are sadly false. Which is why the economics of 4 are causing it to be phased out.
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  53.  @phamnuwen9442  Yes, I think the general elimination of these subsidies, except possiblyfor some marginalized groups that were affected from localized pollution is a good idea.
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  54. Cammi, the video is just the first prototype. They are building two more development vehicles now which will go through a whole series of validation tests. These will result in changes and improvements to the production models, which will continue to be improved even after production starts.
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  55. You are correct that there is less resistance loss if you can use 240v. Aptera will charge at a rate of 30 miles per hour if you have one.
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  56. Congratulations! If you just placed your preorder, it is likely that the delivery won't be until 3rd quarter 2022 unless they ramp up production faster than I expect. However, you will get a more mature car with possibly better features than will be ready for the first ones.
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  57. The main issue with AC at the moment is the lack of transportation qualified reversing valves. That will come, probably as a phase in upgrade later in production, and could potentially be retrofited.
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  58.  @wallykramer7566  have you ever driven in snow? Skinny tires help - especially if they are snow tires. With AWD it should be awesome because of the traction control.
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  59.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  Tesla was converting the Lotus Elise to an electric sports car, but there were already several electrics on the market when the Tesla design started, including the Commuter Car Company Tango - which was a hot rod, and the Ford Th!nk which sold around 1,000 copies. Tesla did not get started in a vacuum.
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  60. Probably. I bet we see them and everyone else move in that direction.
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  61. I plan to drive my 2WD Aptera year round in Iowa. My present wheels are a Gen 1 Honda Insight, which does OK. With the ABS/traction controls, I think Aptera will be better. Edit - I have switched my order to AWD.
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  62. The top surface of all full solar vehicles will be black, due to the solar cell color. For the bottom skin of the car, used for the A/C condenser, black is the most efficient color, but it won't make a big difference because of the large surface area.
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  63.  @paulmuresan8889  The car in the video does not have full solar. Look up "black body radiation" to get an understanding of color and heat. The better a surface is at absorbing heat, the better it is at radiating it, too, in general. There are conductive and convective effects besides the radiant ones, and all of these should be taken into account to judge the overall performance.
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  64.  @paulmuresan8889  There is a zoom call on Thursday, where there will be a chance to ask one of the designers questions directly.
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  65.  @paulmuresan8889  I don't know how good the Aptera will be for the use case of many Europeans, especially due to the width of the vehicle, but I am sure there will be some. I would love to try one out on the Autobahn if I were still a European environmental sales and tech support manager visiting client sites. I speak German, and my sister lives in England at the moment, so I would love to spend more time there.
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  66. Full solar on this car is 700 peak watts at the beginning and the rear hatchback is completely covered.
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  67.  @zodiacfml  Yes, and tire rolling resistance is a big one, too. I presently drive a Gen 1 Honda Insight which has met our needs very economically. Aptera will let us sleep in it for camping and have a far lower cost to actually use. Aptera gives back a great deal. It also has Gen 1 Tesla Roadster acceleration at 1/3 the purchase price, without breaking transmissions
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  68. Registeed as a motorcycle, but will be tested to Automotive crash standards includes front and side airbags and other safety features. I expect it to rate well.
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  69. Aptera actually holds a bumper patent, but the answer is no. They do have engineered crumple zones.
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  70. It is about 8" wider than your Titan, not counting your mirrors,, so that might be quite a feat.
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  71. They already have preorders from the UK and are committed to a right hand drive model.
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  72. The shapes were inspired by wind tunnel testing, which is likely to be true of both vehicles.
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  73. This is not like any other 3 wheel car and every one of these issues has been more than addressed with this design.
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  74. Not so much, yet, but it will be fully tested at the Elaphe cold weather test track next season.
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  75. Probably pretty good for the AWD model with snow tires. The ABS/traction control can sense and adjust torque every 2.5 inches of tread travel - far more quickly than any other car in the road. There will be video of the performance from the Elaphe winter test track later this season
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  76. This is unknown at present. The designers know it is a desirable goal, but it may conflict with the desire to make the battery packs a structural part of the car. We should know more about this before long.
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  77. It is in the proposal but we won't know for sure until the bill is signed.
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  78. Yes, a tiny bit of due diligence showed that they were a scam from the beginning. The same kind of work shows that Aptera has little in common with them except for a 3 wheel design.
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  79. It serves all of the functionality of a car. It is only a motorcycle by legal classification. If it walks like a duck....
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  80. Another Chris Anthony company has produced thousands of vehicles this way. Not just carbon fiber, but also E-glass, hemp, and Kevlar.
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  81. No. There will be 7 standard colors with custom available. The second alpha vehicle is white and the third will be silver.
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  82. If you add the camping kit, there will be a mattress for the back and enough room to sleep two people in climate controlled comfort. I have ordered this option.
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  83. It is designed to excel on standard automotive crash tests. We will have the ratings later in the year.
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  84. It is stable in 110 mph cross winds.
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  85. The first delta (production models) will likely appear in December of this year, with a slow ramp up of production to around 10,000 units per year. Since there are more than 25,000 preorders already in, it will take a while to fill them if you haven't already placed an order.
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  86. There are pre-orders from Korea, and once the rollout happens, Korea is on their radar.
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  87. I agree. I ordered White for the same reason. My first Gen 1 Honda Insight was hit from behind at 60 by a large car that "didn't see me". I wasn't injured and think the Aptera, which weighs about the same, will do even better. The Honda got 4s in the crash tests.
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  88. That wont happen, because the motors are in the wheels. The heat would make it as likely as your muffler getting snowed shut. And in the unlikely event you needed to, the wheel pants snap off in less than a minute. Tesla, Mercedes, and other companies use the same international parts suppliers. Aptera will be registered as a motorcycle or autocycle and will thus not be subject to the mirror rules. It will still be tested to full automotive safety standards.
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  89. Jim, where are you? They have a new 80,000 sq ft factory in Carlsbad, a new beta factory and test center producing parts, and even video of new tooling producing half a fender pant. Both preorders and company valuation are headed up.
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  90.  @BlondieSuperdog  If you think reading a wiki article is doing due diligence, you are in trouble as an investor. While the numbers in the Wiki were true once, Aptera is growing fast and they are now way past that. And I guess Tesla is in even bigger trouble because all mention of a delivery date for the much delayed Cybertruck has been scrubbed from their website. Aptera is operating in the same business climate that Tesla is and shares the same supply chain for some common parts. It is quite clear that you haven't looked up the worth of Aptera shares which are already far beyond penny stock territory. Even at a rapidly increasing valuation, the last offering raised 20 million in a week. This may be a reg A record and shows the market does not agree with you. One measure is to compare where Aptera is at after restarting to the original Tesla in the same time frame. Aptera is moving much faster than most automotive companies, who typically take 5 years to design and deliver a new, less than innovative car model. The Elephant in the room is that we collectively need companies such as Aptera to be successful if we are to start getting a handle on our climate mess. I have spent much of my career in this and I have grandchildren I am not giving up on.
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  91.  @BlondieSuperdog  It is now almost a year after our last discussion here. Aptera has recently released a 6 month SEC update. Although they have greatly increased their expenses they still have about the same 19 million cash on hand. This also doesn't include a 21 million dollar grand that has been awarded by the State of California. Aptera has built a 130,000 square foot solar panel factory that is already in low volume production and they are building out the high capacity line. They also have a separate battery assembly plant in early production. The 80,000 square foot final assembly building is awaiting the Red Viking carts any day now and workers are already training on virtual models of the work stations. Gamma models have been completed and publicly shown, and the delta production intent vehicle is still on track to be finished by the end of the year. The first deltas will be voluntarily crash tested to FMVSS Part 200 standards by a third party, there will be winter weather tests at the Elaphe winter weather test track, and the delivery of the first Paradigm models will start next year. Amazing progress, especially at a time when many dealer showrooms are empty and the Tesla Cybertruck, which started design around the same time is delayed yet again.
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  92. Elon has not been much faster in getting vehicles out. And he started shipping defective roadsters.
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  93. Right hand drive is planned.
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  94. I don't know if there is a break down for 2 seat car sales in the US, but the 13,000 preorders, and counting shows that the demand is enough for the company to be profitable. There is also no shortage of investors with over 10,000 so far with no advertising campaign for the last investment round which was shut down in a week. The demand is there.
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  95. No. The differences will not be significant. Part of this is because most of the heat transfer will be through convection rather than radiation. I understand these things because I spent many years in thermal design. I designed and helped built the samples freezer that flies in the ISS, for instance.
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  96. Why? It would increase the cost and lower the efficiency (increased rolling resistance) for little advantage. Future higher load 4 wheel vehicles for different applications are planned.
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  97.  @waynefergusson9987  I have worked in manufacturing quality control for much of my life. An increase in weight and parts count increases cost. The extra wheel also adds more rolling resistance - a considerable contribution to in-efficiency. Every engineering choice involves tradeoffs. Aptera wants to eventually produce vehicles for more passengers and for cargo, for which a four wheel design increases cargo capacity.
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  98.  @Bill-Rink  The three wheeled Aptera will be crash tested to the same FMVSS Part 200 crash test standards as cars are - not because they have to by law, but because it is designed to be safe. You are incorrect on your assumption.
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  99. He has an investment in Aptera Motors now and will be slow to cover companies he is invested in.
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  100. This vehicle will be far less affected by wind, and have both a lower center of gravity and much better traction control. We will have results next season from the Elaphe cold weather test track.
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  101.  @brewcityb  There is an off road kit that will raise the entire car. There is unlikely to be snow build up in the wheel pants, because of the heat from the motors. If it should occur, they can be clipped off in less than a minute. There is 25 cu ft of storage space in back, and the seating is comfortable for people up to 6'8". I hope you have a chance to see one when there are more on the road. I think you will be surprised.
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  102. Aptera will only require under 2 hours of labor to assemble per vehicle and the present factory should be able to produce at least 40 per hour when they get ramped up. Additional factories are likely to be built in other parts of the country and abroad. Aptera has revealed an even larger factory in production now for solar panels, and a separate facility producing battery modules that is also in initial production. How can it be 17 years when the company and design only began in 2019?
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  103. It has all these features. We will have the crash ratings later in the year.
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  104. Aptera has an a/c compressor and innovative condensers and evaporators, and other ways to transfer heat.
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  105. We now have more details. When the vehicle is moving at under 15 mph or charging, fans will draw air from under the front cowel, blow it over the AC evaporator to cool, over the inside of the bottom cooling pan that also cools the antifreeze carrying heat from the motors and battery pack, through the AC condenser, and then out exhaust ports in the tail of the vehicle.
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  106. The underside of the car acts as the condenser for the A/C system. It works because it has a large amount of surface area to get rid of the heat. Even less conductive materials can perform better than copper if there is enough surface area.
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  107.  @excelrobot  I don't think the Aptera founders are too interested in losing control of their company after what happened the first time.
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  108.  @MarlinMay  I plan to drive one of the early models in Iowa. I have already checked on the availability of studded snow tires. Aptera uses a standard size with snow tires available from several sources. With the superior traction control, I expect the 3 wheel drive model to be excellent.
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  109. The second vehicle planned is a 4 wheel, 5 seat sedan.
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  110. The full solar version will have the rear hatch window covered.
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  111. Not vents but micro channels. Some of this is covered by IP and possibly NDAs. I think we will soon know a lot more.
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  112. It is extraordinarily safe. When production ready models are ready, they will be crash tested and rated to automotive standards.
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  113. Regulation or not this car will have front and side air bags and be test to regular automotive crash test standards. We will have the ratings later in the year.
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  114. I don't think so. There are "backpack" enclosed storage areas behind the seats and a cargo net between the back and the passenger area. Black colors are more efficient at radiating heat, as well as absorbing it. I doubt if the color will make much difference here. Surface area is a much larger factor than color or even thermal conductivity. Addition of mirrors will have a negative affect, but how much will still depend on size and placement.
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  115. Not excluded because of the federal motorcycle classification.
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  116. It wasn't a scam the first time and Chris Anthony's last company went public and is making investors money.
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  117. Yes, two people if they are under 7 ft tall.
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  118. This is not Kickstarter. You are investing in SAFE's. That said it is still risky. Chris has run several companies- one publicly traded with a successful IPO.
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  119. They also have institutional investmentors.
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  120.  @practicalcivilguy6604  Look at the investor plan on Wefunder/Aptera. You can find good articles on the history of Aptera and both founders on Reddit at r/ApteraMotors. You might also want to look at the record of another public company founded by Chris Anthony - FLUX Power. Unlike many automotive startups, the Aptera founders have a strong record as company founders.
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  121. I will report on the performance of my Atera in Iowa.
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  122. The car doors open up and out and you require little additional room, compared to a standard door design, even if your wheel pants are up against a wall. It will be less of an issue than with a regular car in your particular scenario. However, I agree that the width is a problem in tight city centers. The design choice was made for American roads and allow the Cd to be reduced by over 10%. City cars do not need the energy efficiency at speed that Aptera provides. It is definitely a niche car, but it fills that niche extraordinarily well.
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  123.  @aussieideasman8498  You mean like your "perpetual motion machine"? There is nothing like actual physics for understand performance potential.
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  124. Someone hasn't done their research on the different models being developed.
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  125. At $25,900 for the base model, and a likely $7500 government rebate (yet to be determined) It is far cheaper than the average EV, and the running costs are significantly lower, as well, especially with the $900 full solar upgrade.
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  126. At altitude it will be even more efficient.
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  127. 10,000 per year by the end of 2022 was the plan.
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  128.  @MikiMuzsi  Sure! I am in the Aptera Ambassador program, which means I have periodic Zoom calls with the founders and get to ask questions. I think the primary place I got this was from the Aptera's investor's guide that laid out their plans, on Wefunder. Of course, like everthing, Covid has pushed back the schedule some. A lot of information is on Reddit at r/ApteraMotors
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  129.  @MikiMuzsi  Possibility! There is both a recording and written answers from one of the zoom calls on Reddit at r/Apteramotors. Also, Chris Anthony is very responsive answering questions on Wefunder/Apteramotors. Ask there and I bet you get an answer.
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  130. There are at least three companies that are being considered as suppliers. The boards will plug into existing cars with a simple plug in and work from cameras. The software will also be capable of OTA updates, so capabilities will improve. The initial features will be level two, including lane keeping, intelligent cruise control and emergency braking. Full details will come once the vendor is announced.
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  131.  @lanaingram3732  Sorry about the jargon. It means over the air updates, so that improvements can automatically be delivered to the cars remotely. Unlike Tesla, the control of the update schedule remains with the buyer. We will likely know more when we know if they will use Tesla, CommaAi, or someone else. Discussions are ongoing.
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  132.  @lanaingram3732  Lana, that is actually a great question and I don't know the answer to it. There is some solar even in the base models so it is unlikely that you could run the batteries all the way down to the point where things like door latches wouldn't work. I think that might be a good question to ask Chris Anthony on the Wefunder/Aptera site where he answers direct questions almost every day. If I hear anything, I will get back to you here.
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  133. Yes.
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  134. Which is it? High or low? He is talking about a 15 amp circuit, and many people have 20 amp circuits in their garage. The 240V installation costs are sadly typical for California.
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  135. There are jack lift points. There will be future videos making this clear. The rear area has cargo tie down points.
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  136. The car has been designed to full automotive crash safety standards and the ratings will be announced after pre-production vehicles are tested. The car has been tested to be stable in 110 mph cross winds, much higher than almost any slab sided SUV.
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  137. Mine will be white with black accents from the solar panels.
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  138. Look into it a bit more deeply. There is no design issue. The antifreeze lines were not even hooked up.
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  139. More than 6,000 people now disagree with you enough to have placed preorders.
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  140. Unlike others, it is designed to pass automotive safety standards, with crush zones, air bags, and a passenger safety cell - F1 style.
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  141. The biggest difference will probably be a remarkably quiet cabin.
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  142. It will be insured as a motorcycle.
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  143. Now in October '22 there are over 33,000 pre-orders.
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  144. The tires are common standard sizes, They can be changed by unclipping the wheel pants and unbolting the wheels just like any normal tire. The brake service will be normal, but very rarely needed since most of the braking will be regenerative. I plan to carry a small 12 air compressor and a plug kit, and will be able to fix most tire problems on the road that way, just as I did with my motorcycles.
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  145. Aptera will have a state of the art BMS and a novel heat management system, protected by IP.
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  146. Actual crash tests will be performed to automotive standards when pre-production vehicles are available to test shortly before production begins late in the year. However, the vehicle has been designed to excel in these tests, and today's tools are really excellent. It is an improvement in almost every way on the original vehicle which was crash tested and passed all the tests. In fact, the roof crush strength was 3 time stronger than any vehicle that had been tested up to that time. The fiberglass parts are a mixture of carbon fiber, E-glass, Kevlar and hemp, depending on which properties are needed where, and they are vacuum infused and UV cured. The bottom skin of the vehicle has microchannels built in to act as a condenser for the A/C compressor, and should perform very well because of the large surface area.
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  147. While as of October it still appears that the first delta production model will be produced by the end of the year, crash tests will take place early next year. Many details of the design have been resolved and made public, especially regarding the cooling system and the battery pack, each of which already have their own factories doing low volume production. I expect to be driving my Paradigm model next year and will be reporting on the experience.
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  148. I think Chris has a Model S, but I am not sure. I do know that people with active NDAs have to be careful not to upset lawyers.
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  149.  @markplott4820  Mark, every day this comment is looking more ridiculous. "FRADULUENT."(SIC) people don't put their money into tooling and production intent parts, or develop IP in the form of exciting new patents.
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  150. It is far more stable in wind than the typical slab sided SUV. It has been tested stable in 110 mph side winds.
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  151. They are looking into it, but probably not due to the need to make the batteries a structural part of the car.
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  152. Crash rating after production ready vehicles available to test. Range based on EPA highway cycle 250 to 1000 miles depending on battery.
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  153.  @ericwil76  Not with 180 independent cells.
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  154. About 1800 lbs for 400 miles to 2200 for. 1000.. For comparison, my Gen 1 Honda Insight weighs about 1800 lbs.
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  155. Yes. They are planning another round later this year, before IPO. Update: They have filed paperwork to open another round within in days. Look for the details soon
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  156. There is another funding round open now.
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  157. Why did Tesla start with a 2 door sports car? As a new manufacturer using new manufacturing and design tech, Aptera needs to start with a manageable demand vehicle to develop and prove their tech. More mass market vehicles are coming after they get the present vehicle debugged and shipping. The next in line is a 5 passenger, 4 wheel design.
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  158.  @bluetoad2668  They never have done so and they won't start now.
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  159. The screen design is custom, written by Crank Software of Canada.
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  160. You need another 5 or 6" from the edge of a wheel cover next to a wall to open a door.
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  161. I have and well over 5,000 others in the first month.
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  162. Aptera is a 3 wheeler.
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  163. AWD should be well suited. I plan to drive my 2WD year round in Iowa with studded snow tires.
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  164. Welcome to the community!
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  165. Yes. You will need a plug adapter. 30 amps should give you about 30 miles of range per hour plug time, and 50 amps correspondingly more. Aptera gains range so fast because at EPA highway cycle speeds it uses less than 100 watt hours per mile of travel.
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  166. They may have to be careful due to NDAs.
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  167.  @bntagkas  Everyone who follows this knows that Chris owns a Model S. There are NDAs with several of the major system suppliers, including the batteries. The one major one we know about is Elaphe. There will be other announcements over the next few months.
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  168. You are overlooking the fact that Aptera has already gotten well over 5000 preorders in a month and growing fast. If the safety rating comes in well the demand will explode.
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  169. There will be a huge explosion in demand when the safety ratings are published.
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  170. The full winter testing will take place at the Elaphe cold weather test track next season. With snow tires, it is likely to be very good, in part because the traction control is superior to that of any ICE vehicle.
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  171. A lot of it, especially the differential steering is already DBW. There may be a phone based HUD. They are looking into it.
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  172. Designed to do well. We will have the ratings later in the year.
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  173. That was not the same company or vehicle. What you saw was developed by Aptera, Inc. and was an IC vehicle. They were a partnership with Idealab, who hired a CEO from Detroit. He wanted to build a more conventional vehicle and forced the founders out in 2009 in a board fight. They both started new successful companies. He was unable to raise funding for his new ideas and liquidated the company in 2011. In 2019, Chris Anthony was offered the original IP by the widow of the man who had purchased it at auction. He had already successfully co-founded a lithium battery company and taken it public. He regathered his original key partners, and started with a brand new design in 2019. The name of the new company is Aptera Corp, but there is little in common with the original
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  174.  @aussieideasman8498  Quick answer with no research or thought, as usual.
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  175.  @Grant5321  Yes. Mercedes uses some of these same parts, too. There is now a world wide supply chain.
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  176. Investor and early pre-order holder - and I would have to disagree.
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  177. There is also a control stock and buttons on the yoke.
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  178. Not a Tesla OS. Written by Crank software.
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  179. Results will be available before production begins.
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  180. It would certainly be a statement, but for a given source, Aptera gains range about 3 times faster than any Tesla.
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  181. The vehicle being produced by the current Aptera Corp. has almost nothing in common with the old ICE vehicle that was being developed by Aptera Inc. until Paul Wilber kicked out the founders and liquidated the company.
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  182. It is not a scam. You are correct that most of us won't need 1000 miles of range. I have ordered the 400 mile range model - which will clearly be less than that at Interstate speeds or with heat or A/C running. Still, in daily use, even in Iowa, I should get much of my power from the solar, which with today's power costs makes the full solar option almost a no brainer. The secret to cooling this vehicle with skin cooling to reduce drag is that it is so efficient that little heat is created that has to be removed. It will be interesting to see how it performs in edge cases, such as climbing a steep grade on a hot day at speed.
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  183.  @aussieideasman8498  You apparently haven't picked up a newspaper recently....
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  184. There will be complete testing of Aptera in winter conditions at the Elaphe motors cold weather test track next winter season. Until then we probably won't have anything more than educated guesses. My guess is that the 3 wheel motor version with snow tires will perform very well, for several reasons. The traction control and ABS are far more quick to sense and react than most other systems, and we won't see snow build up in the wheel pants because of the heat from the motors.
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  185.  @gilbertlemelin6308  You are certainly correct. I worked for a company that was designing electric motors for use in the marine environment and know something about building them to use in salt water. I contacted Elaphe (the designers and builders of the wheel motors Aptera is using) directly and asked some questions of their engineering staff. Their replies convinced me that they know what they are doing. All of the sensitive parts are encapsulated in an inert potting compound that is resilient and can adsorb extreme shock without cracking. I will be on a Zoom call with Elaphe on March 4th, so if you have any specific questions, I may be able to ask them then, or send an email.
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  186. Chris Anthony already has a successful public company that started out on Wefunder, so it looks like you are already making a false assumption. They have the money they need to get into production and more than 7000 preorders.
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  187.  @martylawson1638  Very unlikely that they are using iron core motors. I used to work for a company designing electric motors for boats. We hired many of the Tesla engineers back when Tesla was in a rough spot in the early 2000's. There are some hints here: https://in-wheel.com/en/technology/
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  188. Since they are doing wraps, there will be many color options, including custom designs available.
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  189.  @phamnuwen9442  Both nuclear and petroleum get much larger subsidies.
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  190.  @Cammi_Rosalie  Please call me Bruce. And thank you for expressing your interest. I am just another enthusiastic volunteer myself.
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  191.  @drew8256  The first round was in 2019. I was an investor myself in the early Wefunder rounds. It is much less risky now.
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  192. Not even close to the same vehicle or company.
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  193. Covid is a major one and is affecting everyone.
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  194. Extensive testing has already been done, especially by Elaphe. It is unlikely to be the case. The carbon fiber that Aptera is molding the wheel pants from is not so prone to cracking as metal can be.
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  195. The cables are completely enclosed in production vehicles.
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  196. Thank you! I use my real name for Youtube comments.
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  197. A new funding round to invest in SAFEs pre IPO will open on Wefunder/Aptera in February.
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  198. Not for the way the Aptera will.be classed.
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  199. Robert, the mass of the Elaphe wheel motors is only around 50 lbs, so the total weight of wheel, tires and motor is within the range of many other personal vehicles. Roush Performance has designed the suspension and the vehicle now even passes the moose test. The alpha I rode in last November was bumpy, but handled speed bumps just fine at a brisk speed. The new suspension, which adds a front sway bar and changes the rear from a swing arm to a dual link is much more compliant. The acceleration, even with the 2WD version, is thrilling. Aptera has a governed top speed of 110 mph, and a 50 kW DC charging rate.
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  200. The wheel pants snap off in under a minute and the tires are a standard size.
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  201. No, not in most states, and where that is still the case, there are legislative proposals to change it. Check where you live, but probably not.
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  202. I live in Iowa and will be testing this out with an early production model. They had a prototype on a ski slope in Switzerland that had no particular issues at slow speed.
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  203. No. Crank Software of Canada developed the software.
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  204. You would lose some of the efficiency and the traction control. Safety would be affected. Not a good tradeoff.
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  205.  @M20B25-User  there are engineering trade offs to be sure. There are white papers that indicate acceptable performance is a matter of tuning spring and damping rates - which is part of the role of this vehicle.
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  206.  @edc1569  About 1000 lbs of batteries.
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  207. I bet they both use some of the same suppliers.
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  208. The prototype in the video has a 40 kWh battery pack. You aren't even close in your "estimate". You clearly have some false ideas about the weight and energy density of modern EV batteries.
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  209. From the FAQ: The cell tech we are testing adds about 10 lbs per kWh of energy. This means the 100 kWh pack is about 1,000lbs and the 60kWh pack is roughly 600lbs. The 100 kWh car weighs about 2200 lbs.
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  210.  @DaveDuzzit  First, I don't work for Aptera. I am in their volunteer Brand Ambassador program and have a small investment. I also have an early preorder. In the mid 2000s I worked for a company building electric motors that hired many of the Tesla engineers when they were laid off during a rough patch, so I have seen the Tesla beginings from close up. To your point about battery pack weight - the Tesla model 3 pack weighs 1054 lbs. There is no discrepancy here. If you look, there are drawings that show how it fits in the chassis. I don't know why you think the current normal is that extraordinary, but you have some false ideas in your head about current battery tech.
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  211.  @DaveDuzzit  Unless I made a typo, which I don't see in this thread, I never said the battery pack would be 1000% lighter. If I did, It is not what I meant. You are going to have to do better than building straw men in order to pick a fight with me.
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  212.  @DaveDuzzit  I am not looking at the comments, but what I remember was you saying that your battery weighed 100 lbs for one kWr of power. A 25 kWr Aptera battery will weigh 250 lbs. Thats it.
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  213. Both A/C and heat are standard.
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  214. They will be conducted by a third party once deltas are available to test.
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  215. Not yet, although Chris Anthony has Flow Technology, lithium battery public company. You will be able to invest in a pre IPO SAFE through Wefunder when the next round goes public in February at Wefunder/Aptera, The last round was over 6 times oversubscribed so when they announce you may need to act fast.
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  216.  @aussieideasman8498  Are you time challenged? I am talking about the comparable periods in Tesla's and Aptera Corps' history. You can't make that claim and know anything about the history of the two companies.
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  217.  @aussieideasman8498  After the same relative time frame, Tesla was out of money and the product they were shipping had defective transmissions. Aptera is in much better shape than Tesla was.
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  218.  @aussieideasman8498  You apparently live in Australia, which might give you an excuse not to understand that under American law Aptera Corp and Aptera Inc. were completely different companies. Corporations buy and sell IP all the time but it doesn't turn the company that purchases the IP into the old company.. Just look at the design of the Aptera Corp. vehicle! There is practically nothing in the present vehicle carried over from the ones built by Aptera, Inc.
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  219. It is good to beware of companies such as Elio. A little due diligence back in the day uncovered Elio lies. The same process gave me faith in Aptera.
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  220. Likely after, but could be sooner if they get investment for a factory there.
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  221. They might. The factory lease has been signed.
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  222. It has been tested stable in 110 mph cross winds - far better than any SUV which tends to lift the inside rear wheel in a sharp turn. The 77" track, coupled with the battery weight, wheel motors, and superior traction control combine to provide extraordinary stability.
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  223. Elio never had a real prototype - just a rough mock up of one, and Paul Elio never had a productive business, unlike both Aptera founders.
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  224. There will be no paint, and the tires will be mostly under cover. The battery pack is temperature controlled.
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  225. Probably not for a couple of years yet. You can invest in SAFEs pre IPO at Wefunder/Aptera
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  226. ​​​ @TheLateSkeptic Aptera is a continuous improvement company which means no model years and that changes will continue even after production starts.
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  227.  @justskot  Tesla was shipping Roadsters that were not yet really functional. The transmissions couldn't handle the torque of the motors. Aptera will deliver well functioning vehicles from the start, that have passed validation testing.
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  228. They have said only Bluetooth for the first models.
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  229.  @robertd9850  Could be, but this was announced months ago.
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  230. We are seeing parts coming off presses using 100 ton machined tool steel. It is clear where the money is going, and you will soon see production intent vehicles undergoing validation testing.
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  231. It is designed to be very safe. It will be tested to automotive crash test standards and we will have the ratings before production begins.
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  232.  @paulmuresan8889  I wish I did have numbers. I do know how many watts it takes to cool a cabin that size, and that the passenger compartment is much better insulated than the average car. My back of the envelope calculation is that it can work. I used to live in the Phoenix area. My feeling is that the full solar is worth it, even if I can't get a big range boost. It would still mean I can leave a pet in the car with the A/C on, or park all day and not come back to a heat soaked car, extending battery life, without killing range. I also know that higher efficiency and cheaper cells are likely around the corner. The Aptera cells are designed to be easily changed out, and the total power available may increase greatly over the life of the car. Here is a picture of the present solar coverage options: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a27d24_ce289a73ea8a4337bb1c8ce5a8584824~mv2.jpeg/v1/fill/w_1175,h_390,al_c,q_90/a27d24_ce289a73ea8a4337bb1c8ce5a8584824~mv2.webp
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  233. I agree that it is wide. The width of the front wheel track resulted in an over 10% improvement in the cd rating of 0.13, which buys a lot of value in the tradeoff. There are certainly wider vehicles on the road in Europe. The proposed new Rolls Royce will likely be wider. As for snowy roads, there will be full testing on the Elaphe cold weather test track next season, but it is likely to be very good. The traction control senses and reacts 32 times per wheel revolution, far faster than other systems. The Aptera has airbags, front and rear crumple zones, and other automotive safety features not found in other 3 wheelers and will be crash tested to automotive standards. The crash test results of the original vehicle were very good, and this will be better. When the results are published late in the year I think orders will explode.
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  234. Soon the production intent vehicles will be undergoing validation testing and we will have actual numbers. There is close to 4 feet of clearance between each front tire and the middle wheel. A little practice will make most potholes simple to straddle. I was worried about the side windows, too, but an actual ride in a prototype showed both my wife and I that there was little to worry about for us. I still have an open mind, because the relative seat positions have changed for production, but we were surprised to find it was not the issue we thought it would be.
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  235. Results will be published on pre-production versions in a few months. Likely to be excellent.
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  236. They got around 20 times the expected number of paid pre-orders and had to redesign the vehicle for production by CPC. The good news is that the quality has increased from "kit car like" to more like a super-car. I am thrilled with what the delay is buying us.
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  237. Why increase the rolling resistance and weight of the vehicle? There is zero performance benefit to doing so, and it would cost more.
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  238. They covered the A/C question - the bottom skin of the car. They have IP around this.
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  239. I know that with alpha there was about 25 lbs of downforce designed in at 65 mph at the expense of some drag. I don't know how this has changed for production.
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  240. Yes, but coming slower because of Covid. Comfortable height limit is around 6'8"
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  241.  @avada0  You may have seen a number of vehicles based on the 1982 A. Morelli body shape, from different companies. They all had major differences besides the general body shape - including vehicle size and drive train design.
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  242.  @avada0  The development of the present vehicle started in 2019. I don't think that is "forever". This is easy to check on.
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  243. Yes. This will be classed as a motorcycle or autocycle. It will still be tested to Automotive safety standards.
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  244. It is much more stable than almost any SUV.
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  245. Safety is likely to be far better than you imagine. It will be crash tested to automotive standards and the results published before shipping starts.
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  246. Probably NDA' s involved.
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  247. Part of the reason I am getting a white one - I want to be seen in those conditions.
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  248. Full tests in snow will take place next season at the Elaphe cold weather test track.
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  249. Extraordinarily low center of gravity, 77" wide track and traction control, among other things.
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  250. Aptera is designed with a mix of priorities, including safety. It comes with airbags, and will be tested to FMVSS Part 200 crash standards by a 3rd party and the results will be made public.
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  251.  @coolpix222  Without knowing your resume, I can tell by reading your comment that you have zero experience evaluating the crash resistance of a steel reinforced SMC/carbon fiber body.
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  252.  @coolpix222  Thank you. I am NOT an engineer, but I ran a QC lab for several years. I learned not to make assumptions but to rely on actual data. You are making some false assumptions. Aptera will be VOLUNTARILY third party crash tested to the FMVSS automotive Part 200 crash test standards. So your "assumption" is wrong. The data is coming. I suggest you wait for it. That is the way to be real.
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  253.  @coolpix222  No, I am not an engineer, but I also designed and helped built a samples freezer for the ISS - and won the bid against engineers from several other large companies because they overlooked too many things. I wrote many of the validation protocols that make drugs you may use legal for use, and my name is on every page of the paperwork - along with 4 others. Part of the safety design is about the rate of deceleration of the passenger on impact. Aptera has a larger than required crumple zone to slow the rate of deceleration, and a passenger safety cage to prevent intrusion of mass into the passenger occupied areas. Your math is correct but you are wrong about the greater deceleration, because you have ignored the design elements that are mitigating. The test results will be the test results. Not waiting for them sounds like the Boeing engineers who seem to have decided that they are not needed.
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  254.  @coolpix222  Why so ignorant? I have done several government projects for Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory myself that I can't talk about, except that they involved thermal design. I have also worked on the Stanford Linear Accelerator, the Keck, and other high profile projects. I won't be "proving" you wrong until the crash tests are performed and the data is published. The reason for 3 wheels should be obvious to you if you are really a competent engineer. By itself it was not done for safety. The fact that the front wheels are so widely spaced, and there is a 2/3rd - 1/3 forward weight distribution and an unusually low center of gravity, even compared to other EVs are all safety related. However, since efficiency is a primary goal, the use of three wheels reduces weight, rolling resistance, wind resistance, and cost - all in line with the design goals of the vehicle. Your claim that Aptera is basically a Cessna shows you have not looked at the design in any detail at all. Examine the Body In Carbon that was publicly shown at the Paris trade show a couple of weeks ago.
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  255.  @coolpix222  If they don't plan to meet car safety standards, why are they putting in air bags? No other US 3 wheeler does. Meeting US automotive crash standards and verifying the performance through 3rd party tests has been part of the design brief from the beginning. How does 3 wheels not reduce friction , cost and weight over using 4?
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  256.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Except they are not doing that. Look at the PI body they just showed in Paris.
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  257. It is not. It still fits in a compact parking space.
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  258. As they say, the devil is in the details. There have been failed startups in the past that shipped early models before they were ready. Aptera is going through a detailed validation program and will start production when the design is proven. At this point, barring continued severe supply chain issues, they are on track be able to start deliveries by the end of this year.
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  259. It will certainly take advantage of a J1772, a standard 110 v. and possibly others.
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  260. unlikely. I have ridden over speed bumps in an early prototype with no issues.
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  261. Remember that this cat has motors in the wheels that will be putting out considerable heat. It is unlikely that ice could form, but if it did they can be clipped off in less than a minute.
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  262.  @katiegreene3960  none of these cars have motors in their wheels. You don't get snow build up on your exhaust pipes.
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  263.  @katiegreene3960  It is not about temperature once we are over 32F - it is about the amount of heat - on the order of 100 watt hours per mile.
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  264.  @johnb7430  Yes. There will be an AWD Aptera going through paces at the Elaphe cold weather test track next year. Already lots of video with these wheel motors on other cars under these conditions.
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  265.  @GA-wq8xq  Aptera already has around 20 times the number of paid pre-orders they were expecting for this first vehicle.
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  266. Aptera is designed to have excellent performance on standard automotive crash tests and the rating will be published before production starts. I expect it to be excellent. There is a Level two Safety Pilot available as a $1,300 option, OTA upgradable.
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  267. Once this first vehicle is in production and the IPO is near, the second Aptera vehicle will be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  268.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Are you claiming to know the future now, too? If we continue on the path of building and driving resource hungry vehicles, there will be many that have no future do to the mindless destruction of resources.
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  269. Some of us, including at least one of the Aptera founders, if not both, have lived all over the world and chosen to come here. There are few places more tolerant of new thinking..
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  270. Aptera has more unsprung weight to control than many vehicles. The early prototype I rode in before the final suspension design felt more like a sports car. However, I live in rural Iowa surrounded by gravel roads. I am not too concerned and will report on my experience with a production model.
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  271. Aptera will not be "getting around" any laws. They are designing a very aerodynamic, thin side mirror housing that will comply with the law and also house a camera.
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  272. Aptera has been tested stable in 110 mph cross winds. It is much more stable than any SUV. The traction control doesn't rely only on braking.
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  273. This will have a hitch, but won't tow a horse trailer. Cybertruck would be better for that use.
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  274.  @AllanSustainabilityFan  I am in the Ambassador program and have been in on some Zoom calls where this was discussed.
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  275.  @redtide941  As a thermal guy, I have few concerns about the cooling system.
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  276.  @artsmith103  Batteries, solar hatch, and motor cooling all exist. The cooling in the infamous video had just not been connected. Aptera is a continuous improvement company and work on every system will always be ongoing. They are also right to repair.
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  277.  @artsmith103  Source? The wheels are meant to be cooled by antifreeze. They have the connections, but are not hooked up.
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  278.  @artsmith103  You are just wrong. Why did the vehicle slow down if it couldn't detect the heat exceeding limits. It was not "failed" cooling that occured. Gamma will be giving rides soon with the cooling hooked up.
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  279.  @artsmith103  Sourced from your imagination.
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  280. You can order a camping kit which includes a tent that fits over the rear hatch, and can sleep two people.
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  281. some functions, such as adjusting the louvers for the air vents, will be done manually with levers. There will also be a control stalk.
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  282. Full solar is 700 watts peak.
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  283. The wheel pants rise with the tire - unlike the front air dam on many small cars.
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  284. The first part of your advice is spot on, but this car gains range about 3 times faster than any other EV using the same charging source.
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  285. The answer is yes. I won't change from my white. I want to be seen at night and I was already run down from behind driving a Gen 1 Honda Insight by a large car that "didn't see me"
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  286. Elio was a poor copy of the first Aptera.
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  287. I am ordering mine for use on gravel roads in rural Iowa. I will report on my experience, year round.
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  288. This is not that.
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  289.  @justinwideman3471  To make this claim you have to ignore why this is unlike any other trike, designed with extreme stability. This comes from an unparalleled 77" front track, stability in side winds of 110 mph, and a extremely low center of gravity due not only to the battery weight carried down low, but wheel motors with their center of gravity at axle level. All of these design features will result in extraordinary performance. In addition, Aptera will be crash tested to automotive crash safety ratings. This vehicle only "sucks" if you ignore how it is designed to perform.
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  290. Big news coming next week (today is August 5th), as the Aptera gamma will be introduced. This will be the last prototype before the production delta models scheduled for December.
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  291. Didn't isn't the same as "can't"
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  292. There are already orders from Europe, but the width could be an issue.
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  293. ​ @mbox314 different vehicle and company with different management. Both Steve and Chris have run successful companies since. Chris took a lithium battery company public as CEO.
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  294. No, not borrowed from Tesla - sourced from some of the same suppliers. there are some Mercedes cars with some of these same parts, too. Aptera has some very interesting IP in the HVAC systems. The Robin in the Top Gear videos was rigged to do that. None the less, I think you will be surprised at the skid pad results when they are published. This car has a wider track, a lower center of gravity, and better traction control than any other 3 wheeler and most 4 wheelers. It will surely be more stable than any SUV.
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  295.  @roymaitland6345  A long time ago.
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  296. That will come before production begins.
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  297. They would not have produced tooling costing millions if that were the case... Inform yourself.
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  298. There will be a cargo net that can be hooked in place.
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  299. Depending on Covid and likely supplier issues, as early as the third quarter, although I personally expect it will be a bit later.
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  300. That is basically the condenser for a normal A/C system.
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  301. It is not a mass market vehicle - but it IS designed to be tested to and score well on FMVSS crash testing. It will be crash tested rated by a third party as soon as production intent vehicles are available to test.
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  302. I live in Iowa and will be getting one of the first 50 production models. I will be giving reports of the performance in snow and cold weather soon after picking mine up.
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  303. There was some consideration of it using Peltier cells but parts availability killed it for now.
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  304. Some of the parts may come from the same 3rd party supplier.
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  305. Will be crash tested and given a standard automotive crash safety rating.
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  306. The tech has changed greatly in 10 years. The new car uses less than 100 watt hours per mile at EPA highway speeds, so the 700 peak watts of the full solar is actually quite useful beyond just ventilation.
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  307. Climate control is rated from -20 to 125 F.
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  308. They tried that. This is more efficient and adds superior traction control.
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  309.  @prestontucker1687  It would also be a safety issue, too. That was tried and has been abandoned. It is unlikely that your bias against wheel motors will affect actual sales.
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  310. I will have an early model in Iowa.
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  311.  @barnabasseadog7660  I hope you can!
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  312. Hydrogen production kills efficiency and is much worse over all than the environmental costs of battery and solar cell production.
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  313.  @beebob1279  Depending on the model, the battery-powered e-car thus achieves an efficiency of between 70 to 80 percent." The hydrogen fuel cell requires 2-3 times more energy to drive the same distance, as the overall Well-to-Wheel efficiency is from 25-35%. This is the killer.
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  314.  @beebob1279  if you produce it at home it still needs to be compressed to be used.. The energy use would be massive compared to charging batteries. Of course they also have energy losses and environmental costs - just not on the same scale.
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  315.  @beebob1279  Yes, and hydrogen use in the car compared to batteries us what we are discussing.
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  316. Several points. Attention has been given to heat management and there is a lot of IP around it. The skin of the vehicle has much better insulation than most cars. The A/C system is focused on keeping passengers and batteries happy rather than cooling the entire structure of the car.
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  317.  @jurivlk5433  Early adopters are typically around 1% of the total market. We aren't even into the beta round of the design yet. But I will be driving my own Aptera next year and I expect to see many who envy me my ownership cost and will place their own orders.
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  318.  @jurivlk5433  Yes, you are right. I was aware of the Microlino, since I was a huge fan of the Isetta. I am old enough to remember when they were somewhat common in Germany and the first motorcycle I learned to ride on, an R27, had the same engine. if I were still in Europe, I would probably have been one of the preorder holders. There is no question that building a new car company is very difficult. I worked as a vendor to several of them. But look at Tesla, converting a Lotus to make an EV. Tesla had a near death experience and had to lay off all of their motor engineers. The company I worked for at the time hired them, so I saw the early Tesla days up close. They got a 250 million dollar government loan which saved them. And look at them now. I think Aptera is following their blueprint. The first Aptera was part of a startup incubator, Idealab, which asked the founders to hire a CEO from Detroit when they thought they were ready, to oversee production. Instead he decided he wanted to build a different car, staged a board coup to throw out the founders, and then liquidated the company when he tried to get a loan to design a new car. One of Aptera founders went on to found and bring a lithium battery equipment to IPO. They have experience, passion, and strategic partners, and now, also the financing.. At this point, I am reasonably sure that they will bring a quality vehicle to production. And it is not just the vehicle. They have a manufacturing method that is an order of magnitude less expensive than what Tesla is doing. I was in Kuwait for the fires, and now live in California so I am passionate about what we are doing to the environment. I think projects such as Aptera can be part of the solution and it is worth my support, even for me to take a personal risk that they might fail. And It looks like I will be driving one myself next year, which will be perfect for my needs. For me and many others, the potential reward is worth the ever diminishing risk.
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  319.  @jurivlk5433  There were two reasons for it. First, decreased the Cd by over 10% by allowing the wheel pants to run in clean air. Secondly, it will allow the vehicle to corner faster while the weight shifts in turns. It could be that a different compromise could be considered for European conditions. Aptera is now planning factories in the UK and in Norway.
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  320.  @jurivlk5433  the operational cost savings make a ton of sense for me and my family. At the moment I own a Chevy P30 step van, which is much wider than even the Aptera because I need that utility at the moment. In my case the compromise the Aptera engineers have made fits to a T. We can see that this is also true for thousands of others.
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  321.  @Okurkaarrgghh  So, even your Google skills are faulty. Thanks for providing the evidence., My P30 is 89" wide without the mirrors. Perhaps you were looking at the inside dimensions?
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  322. And any other production car.
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  323. There is a lot more information available on the web and other important things like the crash test ratings will come later. These designers weren't born yesterday.
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  324. I live in Iowa and will report on my experience next year.
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  325. I think the fact that they are going to crash test it in spite of no legal need to do so and the risk of a bad result is very promising.
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  326. True, but they have been covered in the past, and with an EV friendly administration, there may be incentives by the time these are shipping. You can't count on it though. What you can count on are low running costs, even compared to other EVs.
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  327. It drastically reduced parts counts and costs.
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  328. September was never an availability date. Sandy was projecting possible deltas available for validation testing by then. Crash testing and other 3rd party validations will be done. Availability for the first shipping vehicles still depends on the test results and funding.
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  329. Not true. The interface was designed from the ground up by Crank Software of Canada
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  330. We can see from the last SEC report that Aptera's software arm is now providing an income stream to the company. If you haven't seen it yet. there is video of the dedicated 130,000 sq ft Aptera solar panel production facility that is already in low volume production. A battery plant is also now in operation. Aptera is happening!
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  331.  @Bill-Rink  Bill, which states are those?
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  332. No.
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  333. Did you listen? The lease is signed.
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  334. Ha! The full solar will have 180 22-23% cells for Peak 700 watt output- already under lengthy test I San Diego.
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  335. This is the first prototype and the spring and rebound rates for the suspension haven't been tuned yet.
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  336. It is true that adopting a vegan lifestyle has a tremendous positive effect on the environment, but why give up the additional benefit of driving a much quicker car that gets over 300 MPGe? This is certainly a lot more fun than a Corolla.
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  337. Probably by the beginning of 2025. There will be on line training and repair videos.
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  338. Crash tests to automotive standards will take place and the results published when they have production ready cars available to test in a few months.
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  339.  @rodshop5897  The only person who can say this is someone who hasn't looked closely at either the companies or the products.
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  340. They already have the 2 or three motor choice. A single motor would eliminate differential steering.
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  341. Aptera's second vehicle is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel car. They will talk more about it when they go public.
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  342. Body tooling is now finished and the Production Intent vehicles will start validation testing in the first quarter.
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  343. The second Aptera vehicle is likely to be a 4 wheel 5 seater. This vehicle already has around 20 times the number of pre-orders the founders originally expected.
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  344. Aptera will have a control stock and some buttons on the yoke, plus manual air vent direction controls.
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  345. Yes.
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  346. There is a slow rate of degradation. With a vehicle life of perhaps 40 years and the technical advances likely over that time it makes sense that Aptera has designed the solar panels to be replaceable to be able to repair damage or take advantage of significant technical advance.
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  347. It can be plugged into a 230 volt outlet and will gain around 30 miles of range per hour. The other voltages may depend on configurations of the car that are still being engineered. The top speed is RPM limited to 110 mph. In 110 degree F weather and up a 6% grade, the speed may have to be dialed back to to cooling limits. This won't be a factor in cooler weather. The torque will allow 0-60 times of 3.5 seconds for the heaviest 30 motor version and 5.5 seconds for the two motor versions. It is available with a Level II OTA camera based Safety Pilot that is a $1,300 option. It will meet all automotive safety standards in this regard. It will be crash tested to full automotive safety standards and is likely to do very well. Ratings will be published after pre production versions are available to test later in the year. It is not sold as a kit at this point. There are preorders from many parts of the world. International deliveries won't start until sometime in 2022.
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  348. At present Aptera Motors is the gold standard for lean design.
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  349. It is being classed as a motorcycle for this purpose.
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  350. Custom vinyl wraps are available for any color or pattern you wish.
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  351. You do know that a black panel is the most efficient heat radiator , don't you? Think about it. They will have far more surface area available to reject heat. I don't have the numbers to crunch, but I designed a samples freezer for the ISS and know something about this. It is certainly possible.
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  352.  @edc1569  The side under the car should almost always be in relative shade, but you are right. I suspect when supplier NDAs expire we will know a lot more.
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  353. There will be an off road version that might solve your main issue in the future. I will be driving an early model in Iowa and report on its performance in snow and on gravel roads.
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  354.  @leneanderthalien  Lets see what homologation creates.
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  355. That doesn't mean the Aptera will not be tested to and pass the FMVSS Part 200 crash tests - it will. Motorcycles don't need airbags, either, and yet Aptera has them.
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  356. You will like the answers when you find out. In most cases you will just pull out the nail or screw with a pair of pliers or vicegrips, plug the hole with a plug kit, and re- inflate with a DC inflator. If you need to, just remove the wheel from the wheel motor as if it were a brake drum and take it to almost any shop. The 16" wheel and tire are standard and light weight.
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  357. Both companies - and others- use the same suppliers.
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  358.  @markplott4820  it is far more stable than almost any SUV.
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  359. That is what lobbying is for ;)
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  360. You can only say such a thing if you aren't paying attention. First of all, Aptera Corp. and this design only started in 2019. Secondly the body tooling is finished and validation parts are being produced. Soon Production Intent vehicles will be undergoing validation testing.
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  361. AC will have levers to move the vents and direct air flow.
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  362. Crash tests later in the year when pre production vehicles are available. They are designed to excel in safety.
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  363.  @-LightningRod-  My first thought is - what a beautiful place you live in! - but cold in the winter, the only time I have every been. I expect to have an early model and expect that there will need to be changes - the first one is a reversing valve that will allow the AC compressor to work as a heat pump and lower the electricity needed to keep the system warm enough in the winter.
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  364. The HVAC is designed to perform over a range of -20 to 125 F. It may struggle in -40 conditions.
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  365. They won't know for a while yet since funding isn't fully in place and they don't know how the validation testing will go. Early deliveries may start at the end of 2024 or beginning of 2025.
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  366. The fact that there is an off road kit and a camper option means that my wife and I can sleep in temp controlled comfort with no RV needed!
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  367. It will gain range about 3 times faster than any other EV plugged into the same charging source.
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  368. To be fair, these are nominal numbers, and there are many older buildings that would be lucky to even reach the 110 volt values, especially in winter in areas that have electric heat.
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  369. Aptera will have manual levers on the air vents.
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  370. It has a level two Safety Pilot as a $1,300 option that has OTA upgrades.
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  371. With the full solar option, it will be covered. And that is what I ordered.
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  372. Unknown.
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  373. Not required in the US due to the motorcycle or autocycle classification.
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  374. Top Gear even launched a Robin, but it didn't get as far as the Tesla did.
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  375. Wefunder/Aptera
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  376. It will have 3 or 4 selectable levels of regenerative braking.
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  377. Aptera was planning to deliver a vehicle with a vacuum resin produced body, which could have happened and would have been similar to the gamma prototype. The number of paid pre-orders came in about 20 times higher than they expected which caused the need for a complete redesign. The good news is that the quality is going from kit car to super-car like. The money has gone into tooling which is finished and validated body parts are being produced. Soon we will have production intent vehicles undergoing validation testing.
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  378. I have ordered a white one for this reason. The second development vehicle is undergoing final assembly in San Diego and it is white. We will have video in a few weeks.
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  379. The tires are not that wide. The traction control and ABS update 32 times per wheel revolution, far faster than most other systems. We will have full winter weather test results and footage from the Elaphe winter test track next season.
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  380.  @jacquesguillotte3270  I will be getting one of the early cars and will probably be able to report personal experience in snowy mountain passes with a two motor version. I have far more experience in these conditions than I would have preferred on motorcycles and no traction control. We will see.
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  381. Heating will not be as good as we would hope in the first models due to supply chain issues. We don't have a lot of detail yet about the A/C, but that is coming. The r value of the body is much higher than a typical vehicle.
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  382. Looks will be deceptive in this case.
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  383. All the body tooling has been finished and validated parts are being produced. Soon the PI vehicles will be undergoing validation testing, including by third parties.
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  384. Now that we have test track performance and I have ridden in a prototype, I can tell you that your fears have come to naught. I will be giving reports on the performance of my own personal example next year.
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  385. Aptera and Tesla use some of the same third party suppliers. The latest information on the beta Aptera design makes it look like they are going to go with a yoke. We may have more detail on this before long.
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  386. The motors are NOT unsprung. Roush Performance has designed the suspension. Spend a bit of time doing due diligence between Elio and Aptera Corp. The resemblance is purely superficial, starting with the fact that Aptera's deposits are held in escrow and completely refundable at any time, and the Aptera founders have run successful companies. Chris Anthony took a lithium battery company as CEO.
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  387.  @bobhellman8676  Of course..
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  388.  @SkyRiver1  Yes, it is easy to believe what you want to without doing any research. There is a difference between the wheels being unsprung weight, which they are and not being sprung, which they also are. The ability to control wheels the weight of Aptera's drive system has been well studied decades before Aptera made their choice, and I have read several of the papers. Even better I have ridden in a prototype that was as good or better than my Kelmark GT kitcar.. Doing some study would pay off.
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  389.  @MikiMuzsi  I am pretty sure that people who would consider an Arcimoto would not be a market for Aptera and vice versa. I could see some people getting both. The use cases are just too different from my perspective. Cost is an important factor, but, for people who are looking for a 2 person vehicle, suspect the proposed Tesla is not going to be as attractive. The design will not be as focused to the purpose. If Aptera can really execute and deliver, I don't think there is a much competitive threat in the market segment they have targeted. Most of the threat that does exist could be in the market growth potential in follow on vehicles.
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  390. The prototype , soon to be joined by others is on the roads around San Diego. The first production models may be delivered by the end of the year.
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  391.  @MaxGoddur  perhaps she will change her mind if you don't mis- represent to her what it actually is. Perhaps wait until the crash test ratings are known.
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  392.  @MaxGoddur  I am one of those over 65 fans. Aptera has a referral program modeled after the one Tesla had. Once you have a preorder in you can participate, too. I am not going to be begging on social media. I think when my friends see it in person that I will have plenty of referrals.
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  393. I own a Gen 1 Honda Insight, and Aptera beats its performance as a car in every respect. I also have 1/2 million miles on motorcycles and Aptera is not a motorcycle by functional performance.
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  394.  @Bill-Rink  Bill, I have around 1/2 a million miles on many different motorcycles, starting with a 1942 Indian Scout. I know what a motorcycle is. I have also ridden in an Aptera prototype. Aptera has FAR more in common with my present car- including more cargo space lower operating cost, and better acceleration performance. At least 38 states have an "autocycle" designation, which Aptera fits. "Motorcycle" is merely a legal class that only fits Aptera in a minority of states.
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  395. It is a niche car. There are follow on models that will be more mass market.
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  396. You must not be familiar with California. It could have easily cost him that. Chris has a Tesla Model S by the way. In my area around SF Bay the costs would be similar and it might take a wait of over a year to get the work scheduled.
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  397. The prototype does not have full solar.
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  398. A 5 seater 4 wheel model is planned.
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  399. Yes, along with white and silver. Completely custom will be available through wraps.
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  400. The body form is not a fashion statement that can go out of style. It is pure form follows function. I plan to drive mine year round in Iowa on gravel roads. I will report on my experience.
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  401. It is not true that all testing is done in house. Roush Performance did much of the suspension testing, for instance with additional input from CPC. Pinafarina has done some of the initial aerodynamic testing. A third party will do the crash testing. More data will come out when the production intent vehicles go through validation.
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  402.  @laloajuria4678  There are already well over 40,000 deposits in.
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