Youtube comments of N. Bruce Nelson (@n.brucenelson5920).

  1. I have spent many hours in front of the holy fire at the Zoroastrian Fire Temple in Yazd, before the Revolution, and was able to visit again after. I also had many Zoroastrian friends when I lived in California.
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  2. Sam, I spent many years working in quality control for many industries, including almost all the automotive firms, food suppliers and drug manufacturers. Throughout my career in manufacturing quality control I had my job threatened and was once fired for refusing to falsify data. In that case, the board found out, got rid of the CEO and gave me my job back with back pay. The pressure is always there, and it is important for a company to hire people who have a sense of their own integrity, even in the face of threats to their personal income.
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  3. Hydrogen is a complete non-starter for wide adoption in personal transportation. The efficiency cycle is horrible, especially compared to much simpler EVs.
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  4. Thanks for your welcome Aptera coverage. It is a shame that promising developments seem to attract so many anonymous trolls.
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  5.  @hhc1948  The 40 mile average range is only for solar areas further South than Michigan or Iowa, and that is the solar only full range., including the hood, dash, roof, and rear deck. The first models to be released will likely have a 400 mile plus range on full batteries. the second model will be around 250 miles with full batteries, and then will come 600, and then finally 1000 miles. (All these range numbers await validation testing, which will be done next year).
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  6.  @aussieideasman8498  It is a shame that our Aussie friend has never gone to the trouble to understand what "proof" even is, let alone "evidence".
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  7. I live in Iowa, and expect to still get around 20 or so miles from sunlight on the average day. It is still worth having. It will be especially welcome on camping trips in remote areas.
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  8. I spent much of a career attempting to clean up the messes, including in Kuwait during the fires. There are American cities that have had as much as 20 ft (!) of fuel floating on top of the water table. This is one of the reasons I am so eager for Aptera to ship. We need to change course as quickly as we can. I have trained workers on cleaning up leaking gas tanks in many countries.
    13
  9. I live in rural Iowa and will be reporting on how it performs here with an early model. We have 9" of snow on the ground now, with perhaps as much as 7" more coming in tonight. The high on Sunday will be below zero. One of the advantages Aptera has for winter conditions, is more range than most EVs to compensate for cold weather loss, and a traction control system that can detect wheel spin and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution - about every 2.5 inches of tread travel. This is a superior performance, and should translate to good performance in snow and on slick surfaces - especially with the right tires.
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  10.  @TracingRobots  Tesla gave their permission to treat their connector as a standard after Aptera asked them to make it available ti everyone. SAE is writing standards and test procedures to make sure all versions will be compatible.
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  11. Yes. Aptera used this on their very first prototype. They petitioned the government to make it a standard, and were the first 3rd party company to get Tesla's permission to use it. Their role in causing NACS to happen has been way under reported.
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  12.  @AeliusCaesar  It still burns, but they put it behind glass, so a random visitor can't try to put it out.
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  13.  @bobhellman8676  The third motor puts 0-60 range in the area of the original Tesla Roadster - probably better - at a third of the price. Aptera won't drop the 3rd motor for the Launch Edition. While tooling costs have gone up, battery costs - which are the majority of the vehicle costs - have dropped rather dramatically since pricing was announced. The amount of labor and the parts count has also decreased. We will have to see where it all ends up when shipping starts.
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  14.  @林振华-t4v  No, NACS is becoming an SAE standard so interoperation will be assured between any manufactures building to the stndards.
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  15. Sam, at 74 years old, and around 1/2 a million miles on 2 wheels, I can relate. I just want to say, Get well soon, and keep doing what you need to do to be the You you wish to be. Use wisdom in your choices, and know that you are loved no matter what.
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  16.  @davefroman4700  Aptera has at least 4 patents on this. You could look them up. Also, active development still ongoing.
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  17. No it is not. Aptera, Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. They kicked out the original co-founders in 2009 to design a different vehicle and ran out of money and liquidated in 2011. Aptera Corp. is a brand new company with a different product, founded in 2019, about the same time the Cybertruck began development.
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  18. They are moving much faster in a Covid and broken supply chain environment than Tesla did since their restart in 2019, and are likely to have production vehicles on the road before the Cybertruck appears, which was announced around the same time. The beta vehicles are on the road performing parts and performance validation testing and the factory is being built out to specs developed by Sandy Munro Associates.
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  19. What makes you think that? A glance and you think you understand the design? I had a ride in an early prototype and the engineer driving intentionally hit a speed bump at around 30 with no issues. In testing they have hit curbs hard enough to deflate the tires with no damage to the vehicle. I will be taking mine to Death Valley straight from the factory.
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  20.  @philblum1496  Yes, including your 110 or 220 standard household plugs.
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  21.  @johnbuchman4854  You certainly haven't done any due diligence on Aptera.
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  22.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  They are far ahead of where Tesla was at the same relative point in time, both in terms of design maturity and financially.
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  23. Aptera will be tested to automotive crash test standards at the end of the year when there are production ready vehicles available to test. It has advanced safety design, some elements coming from the F1 world, and the models indicate that it will test very well. There will be videos when the testing is done.
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  24. "Aptera has gone bankrupt before" Why do people keep repeating this lie? The fact is that years after Chris and Steve were booted from the company in a surprise board vote organized by the Idealab appointed CEO, they had abandoned the plan that Chris and Steve had raised money for. They were unable to fund their changed vision for the company, and they held an orderly liquidation. The company never went bankrupt.
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  25. I am a life long climate change activist and this is one of the stupidest moves I have ever heard of to get people to change their behavior. Shame on whoever thinks this is a good idea!
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  26.  @CypHiLL2007  This is pure imaginary fear. Aptera will have this vehicle 3rd party crash tested to FMVSS part 200 standards and publish the results, even though it is not a requirement for the class. Expect this information as soon as there are production intent vehicles available to test.
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  27. You need to look a bit more deeply into this. Prices start at $25,900. - before incentives. As far as safety goes - it has front and rear crumple zones, air bags, seat belts, a superior ABS/traction control system- and will be tested to US automotive safety standards.
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  28.  @nomercy4521  Actually it is an alpha model. The betas already have the redesigned and much improved suspension.
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  29.  @aussieideasman8498  There is photographic documentation of the beta after being driven at a curb at high speed. You need to have some evidence when you accuse others of lying - too bad you have never figured that out.
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  30. Not confirmed - the alpha prototypes were using the Tesla connector likely because one of the founders has a Model S and they already had the charger. Production models are likely to have up to 4 charging sockets and adaptors, including Teslas'. Both companies have dropped hints about using the Tesla network, but no official announcements yet.
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  31. You don't understand the history nor the market. First of all, there are already more than 33,000 pre-orders for these. Back in the '70s, the 3 wheel Reliant Robin sold around half a million examples and took Reliant to the #2 manufacturer's position in GB. Aptera uses 1/3 the energy to go the same distance as the most economical Tesla. With 28 cu ft of cargo space, the ability to gather much of its energy from the sun, and to charge at a rate of 500 miles per hour from a 50 kW DC fast charger, it will pay for itself in fuel savings alone for most owners in a matter of a few years. Many of us have figured this out. As far as no one in the countryside wanting one - I live in rural Iowa and will be taking delivery of one of the first ones. You don't seem to know the reasons that Aptera failed the first time - it was because the company abandoned the vision of the founders. That is unlikely to happen again. You might want to do some due diligence regarding the history and why people with deep automotive industry knowledge are working with Aptera and investing their own money.
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  32. The key pieces of tech that Aptera has from the battery company is a superior BMS and a much faster battery assembly process, even compared to Tesla. The cells are not manufactured in house, but the packs are. Many of the details are still under NDA. More announcements are coming.
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  33. Unlike the Robin (which sold 1/2 million examples, btw) Aptera has the two wheels in front and a prototype has passed the moose test. The geometry and center of gravity is much different. And James had to rig the cars he used to make them flip.
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  34.  @billsmith5960  Perhaps you haven't tried to take an ICE vehicle up I17 towards Flagstaff at the speed limit on a summer day? I have and it is common to see them pulled to the side with boiled over radiators and blown head gaskets. The Aptera prototype this occurred with didn't even have the antifreeze cooling lines hooked up to the motors and inverters, and had been operating for months like that. It had climbed the same hill collecting "B" roll for the film crew the same day when that occurred. The production design is FAR better, and will actually be hooked up and working.
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  35. Aptera has shown much better financial management than any other startup I can think of. Chris is hands on on this and has a record of success. He took a lithium battery company public as CEO at his last company and has proven the knows how to do it. I have worked as a supplier to many EV startups over the years and seen both successes and failures. I know of none that have done better in the same time frame.
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  36.  @jayyvn3339  A three wheeler sold 1/2 million vehicles in Europe and took Reliant, the maker ,to the # 2 manufacturing position in England. The 3 wheel design cuts weight, cost, and rolling resistance - critical for the efficiency goals of the vehicle.
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  37. It should not be forgotten that Aptera used the Tesla connector on its prototypes from the very beginning. Chris Anthony spoke often about why it was a superior solution to anything else out there. Aptera started a petition to make it the NACS standard that was signed by 40,000 people, at first to a great deal of ridicule from the online "experts". Aptera was the first company to push Tesla into opening up the connector to others and apparently made a convincing case, when they won approval to include it on their first production vehicles, and then Ford followed shortly with their announcement. After that it was dominos. I believe that we will see a like revolution as soon as people can experience the delta models in person. I base this in part on longer rides my wife and I had in an alpha prototype in October of 2021.
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  38.  @mistersoeciale2817  Remember that Tesla's first vehicle was a 2 place car that didn't even sell 3000 copies. Aptera already has over 11,000 preorders. It will fill the same function for Aptera that the Roadster did for Tesla. The next Aptera vehicle will be a 5 passanger 4 wheel sedan.
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  39. It has been tested in 110 mile cross winds. It is more stable than most cars. There will be a 5 passenger model, but probably 4 wheels.
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  40. Oh, Sam! Please give Shanny a big hug from all of us. I haven't been to Australia, but I have had similar experiences on bicycles and motorcycles, and I been taken in to homes around the world, including places such as Iran, Japan, and Germany. You will both be in my prayers, and I will share this with friends of mine so we can remember you together. We wish you joy!
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  41.  @aussieideasman8498  Ausseman thinks he knows more about it from Australia than people who have visited the site. Well he also thinks he can build a perpetual motion machine, because he trusts his own "imagination" more than he does physics - which he doesn't understand in any case. Get real? Certainly imagining things without knowing how to actually research the truth would be more appropriate advice for you to take for yourself.
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  42.  @cheesefries7436  Production body panels are already being produced. Early next year the validation intent vehicles will be undergoing testing. Perhaps you didn't watch this video of the gamma prototype?
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  43. Once V2G tech is available, EVs have the potential to shave around 30% from the peak loads seen by the grid. This could be a game changer.
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  44. It is not designed as a family car - not a valid criticism. If functional form is desirable, it is beautiful.
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  45. The spacing of Aptera's front wheel track to the center makes dodging potholes a much easier task than with most 3 wheelers. I ordered the full solar, even living in Iowa where I get about 1/2 the solar insolation as Southern California. It will still pay for itself- hardly a useless gimmick, and will exchange our range when we go camping. I have placed my bet by ordering one and investing.
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  46. Although the name is the same, the vehicle and company now (Aptera Corp., rather than Aptera, Inc.) are completely different from what you saw then. Although the original founders of both companies were the same people, by the time of the X prize, they had been kicked out of the company and gone on to other successful projects. In 2019, Chris Anthony was offered the rights to the original company that had been sold at auction, regathered his key original people, and started a new company with a completely new design. If the current vehicle is successful and the company goes public, the second vehicle is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel sedan.
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  47. No, I don't think it works that way. They will deliver largely by order number for orders placed now. The 1000 mile range models will be last, but once they start making those, they will be mixed in with the others.
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  48. I have ordered the 40 kWh battery and full solar. Even in Iowa where we get a lot less sun, this will take care of my daily driving needs plus an occasional trip to Des Moines or Kansas City on solar alone.
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  49. Yes. I have one on order and I live in Iowa. I only expect 20 miles of range or so from full solar, but it should more than meet my needs.
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  50. I had a ride in the 3rd alpha prototype, Luna. (the silver one) The Engineer driving took me through twisties at speed. She cornered flat, but was harsh on the bumps and there were clunks on potholes. Raush Performance has completely redone the suspension, adding a sway bar in the front and replacing the rear swing arm with a dual link. I hear the betas are much more compliant and even faster through the curves. I still expect the experience to be sports car like rather than econobox.
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  51. Aptera has a very fast acting traction control system. It can sense wheel slip and adjust torque about every 2.5" of tread travel. I think the AWD versions will be very good on slick surfaces. I plan to use studded snow tires during Iowa winters, where I live, and will report on my experience.
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  52. While most of this is true, they will not use the regulations to get around safety. In fact it is an equal goal with efficiency. The 3 wheels gives them less cost, less weight, better aerodynamics and less rolling resistance. They will voluntarily submit production samples to a third party for FMVSS Part 200 crash testing and have the results published. Aptera will still fit in a compact parking space.
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  53.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  I don't see where Telsa has a current product that comes close to competing with Aptera's offering. Of course, if this first Aptera is successful, that could change in the future.
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  54.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  The Aptera has 32.5 cu ft of trunk space in back - enough to sleep a couple. The 2 place Tesla Roadster was even more impractical and cost about 3 times more to purchase, and more to power and drive as well.
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  55. Aptera will be eligible for government incentives under the proposed legislation.
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  56.  @aussieideasman8498  Now you are into outright lying. I thought you were better than that. If they weren't intending to sell any why would the pour millions of their funding into production tooling?
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  57. Sun coupons of the solar panels have been under test for years. Several of the PIs will be sacrificed in crash testing to Automotive standards, even though this is not legally required. I live i Iowa and will report my experience under local conditions.
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  58.  @appa609  There is actually around 25 lbs of (intentional) down force at 65 mph.
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  59. And it is an honor to help it along. ( and more fun than measuring the air pollution from the fires in Kuwait), which I also did.
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  60. This version of Aptera started in 2019.
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  61. This is a great question. The answer will depend, but the r value of the Aptera cabin is far higher than most car bodies due to the foam sandwich construction. It will be a win-win for most of us. The same insulation will increase battery range even if you only charge from a plug.
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  62.  @EverhardVideos  My question was for Mark Plott. The fact that Aptera meets or exceeds all applicable FMVSS and NHTSA standards is found in Aptera's annual report filings which are available to anyone who does due diligence.
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  63. Aptera will be voluntarily crash tested to FMVSS Part 200 standards by a third party as soon as production intent vehicles are available to test, and the ratings will be published. It has been designed from the beginning to be as safe as possible. It will have front and rear crumple zones, a Kevlar and carbon fiber passenger safety cage, seat belts and air bags among other safety measures. I expect that the ratings will be very good, but we will have to see once the test results are available.
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  64.  @kenhiett5266  It IS a matter of physics. Larger crumple zones slow deceleration. We will see the details when the crash test results are published.
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  65.  @bryanwhitton1784  No question that investing in an early stage company is very risky. People were able to go on test drives in the Roadster even when they were still breaking the transmissions with every demo ride. They came within minutes of closing, when a last gasp 50 million dollar investment from Daimler saved them. I know, because I worked across the street from Tesla in Union City at the time, and my company hired their motor engineers when Tesla had to lay them off. I have had a ride in an Aptera alpha prototype. You can do all of this with Aptera, and many, including my wife and myself have. There will be increasing opportunities. I suggest from your comments that you need to do more due diligence. Both founders have developed numerous successful companies. Chris Anthony co-founded and as CEO took public a lithium battery company that I have also invested in, and is rated a buy by the analysts following it. I have also been corresponding with Elaphe and other key partners for well over a year at this point.
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  66. Depending on location and battery size, Aptera can gain around 4 kWh per day.
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  67. ...How to tell when a person has done zero research regarding what they write about.
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  68. Uninformed. The Aptera that they were planning to deliver in 2022 had a vacuum resin infusion produced body. There are now more than 46,000 pre-orders - far more than can be produced using this method. They had to change the design to meet demand. The new carbon fiber - SMC tooling has been finished, and production body parts have been validated. You will soon be seeing production intent vehicles undergoing the validation testing, including crash testing.
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  69. 134a is a non starter because it has about 1300 times the GWP of CO2. It was a great gas for addressing the ozone hole problem however. Propane actually makes a good refrigerant gas. The flamability is no different than with conventional refrigerants mixed with the oil that circulates with them and can be managed to be safe through proper design.
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  70. Unless the corporate safety and quality culture is strict, people don't even look after their own safety, let alone that of others. There was a nuclear accident at a nuclear power plant that I had done safety related quality work at, due to workers getting too comfortable with the procedures and starting to ignore them. It seems to be a deeply rooted human nature problem.
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  71.  @tygorton  People have already gotten insurance quotes for their Aptera pre-orders, in line with other 3 wheelers such as the Slingshot. I live in rural Iowa, and every one of the independent shops near me can't wait to work on it. I think it unlikely that people will find either one of these to be an issue, based on the responses I have gotten when I inquired.
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  72. Aptera has been an admirer of Tesla from the beginning and made no secret of it. Chris owns a model S. Crowd funding doesn't remove the need for due diligence. But it does allow non-qualified investors to participate in a way that didn't used to be possible. I am a small investor, and am grateful for the opportunity. I don't recommend anyone investing anything that they can't afford to lose. Most of my investments are in companies whose products I believe in and I donate with the same thinking that I give to charities - because they can help create a world I want to see and live in.
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  73. I live in Iowa, and expect my daily range will be more like 20 - it still makes the full solar option a no brainer.
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  74. There are 4 wheel vehicles on the way. The next planned vehicle may be a 5 passenger 4 seat sedan. I wouldn't be surprised to see an announcement as they head towards IPO.
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  75. There are many people who take this as their default position without doing due diligence and it was an easy position to take starting out. At this point, however, they have billion dollar VC firms represented on their board, and raised $100.9M in funding over 9 rounds. They have taken in over 25,000 pre-orders and the rate is increasing. They have their factory space, and a factory design produced by Sandy Munro Associates who are also investors. They also have supply contracts for the major components, including batteries, motors, and vehicle wiring from major suppliers. They are moving much faster than Tesla did originally, or now with the Cybertruck. I expect that we will have production Aptera on the road before we ever see Cybertrucks, in spite of both vehicles starting development at around the same time and the far greater resources available to Tesla.
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  76. The ceiling could be an issue, too. Quite a few people will want to leave it outside for maximum sun exposure. Each situation is different.
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  77. Yes. The second Aptera vehicle is planned to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  78. I plan to report on the performance of an early vehicle in Iowa.
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  79. My wife and I have ridden in a prototype. There is no problem with the doors . you just back up to the seat, sit straight down, and rotate on your butt to swing your legs in. Surprisingly, you hardly notice the window divider when you are driving. My mind is still open on this, since the size and location may be relatively different on production models, but I am no longer worried. As far as width goes, it is less wide than my step van was, and I could still park that in a compact parking space.
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  80.  @markplott4820  If you were a real person, you would have some evidence for such a claim, which you don't, of course.
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  81. It has been designed to exceed safety standards for cars - and will be tested to FMVSS part 200 standards by a third party and the results will be published. It doesn't need to have air bags, either, but it does.
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  82. "This company" was only founded in 2019. Way to do your due diligence.
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  83. You have not been paying attention. The "Tesla Plug" is now the standard that will also be known as the SAE NACS Electric Vehicle Coupler J3400_202312 Soon all manufacturers delivering vehicles in the US will use it as will all public charging stations - not just Tesla.
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  84. The wheel motors are made by Elaphe. This morning they did Zoom meeting with the Aptera founders and answered many questions. A link will be posted to social media.
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  85. Right to repair was supported by Aptera from the beginning.
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  86. The motors stay on the car like drum brakes when balancing wheels and tires. The process is just like any car.
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  87. Automotive crash tests will be done and results shared before production begins.
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  88. Only if they have a key fob.
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  89.  @aussieideasman8498  Not what happened last time. More "history" from your imagination.
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  90.  @oplkfdhgk  Aptera and Tesla have been in talks about a number of matters including technology sharing for a long time, under NDA. The big issue I can see as a practical matter is the different stance on Right to Repair.
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  91. It is designed to do well on the FMVSS part 200 crash tests and will be voluntarily tested to them and the results published as soon as there are delta production intent vehicles available to test.
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  92. The second Aptera vehicle will be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  93. I live in Iowa and will be reporting on the performance with an early model. Due to the excellent traction control with AWD and snow tires, I expect it will do well. The wheels can adjust torque with tire slip every 2.5" of tread travel. They already tested a prototype on a ski slope in Switzerland with snow depth above the bottom of the wheel pants and it did OK.
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  94. I can make a couple of comments. Physical crash testing by an independent 3rd party will occur once production intent vehicles are ready for testing. The ratings will be released when that has happened. It has been designed to be excellent, with front and rear crumple zones, seat belts, air bags, and an F1 style passenger safety cage, none of which are required by the class. My wife gets car sick, and both of us have had rides in the Luna prototype. Neither of of us experienced a motion that would trigger it, but the suspension has been greatly revised since our rides before last Thanksgiving Mine wrung out the performance envelope, which is considerably more exciting than our Gen 1 Honda Insight. We can't make a judgement on the final ride quality from that experience, but there was nothing that would trigger undue concern. It was Fun!
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  95. Although the Tesla partnership could be true, because of NDAs they can't talk about it yet, and there are other explanations for what has been revealed. It is still true that with a 50 kW DC charger an Aptera will gain about 100 miles in range every 10 minutes. As far as safety, the original car passed the automotive safety crash tests and this design should be considerably better. My guess is that when the crash tests are performed and the ratings published that demand will explode.
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  96. The 1000 mile range version is still probably several years out. The pack itself will use new batteries with the same form factor as the present ones, except taller. This is also true of the 600 mile range versions. There is still a lot of development work to do to complete these models. Aptera is a continuous improvement company, and there is a possibility that completely new battery tech will be available to them with higher energy density than the present cells, and if so, they could switch.
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  97. The drive train works great right now. I had a ride in the Luna prototype and it was breathtaking. Cornering in the twisties was a revelation - flat and planted. The production model suspension has been reworked by Roush Performance, and will be much more compliant, and even faster in the corners.
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  98. The answer is likely to be that both companies are using some of the same third party suppliers.
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  99.  @tomasmarvina9699  Tomas, it isn't all about how much power is produced. A big part is how much power is needed to drive the vehicle. Even in Iowa, the full solar Aptera will more than meet my daily driving needs, including occasional trips to Des Moines and Kansas City. This is because at EPA highway cycle speeds it uses less than 100 watt hours per mile. Cybertruck would have to have a solar array several times as large to supply its needs, and of course it doesn't.
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  100.  @tomasmarvina9699  I can assure you it exists. I had a ride in the Luna prototype. I am sure the Cybertruck exists, too. Both companies are dealing with the same supply chain issues. In spite of having greatly more resources, Aptera is likely to beat the Cybertruck into production. Aptera is moving very quickly. Remember that it took Tesla 6 years to deliver their first Roadsters, and that was a relatively simple EV conversion of the Lotus Elise. Aptera has been designed from the beginning to do well on the FMVSS part 200 crash tests, even though not required to by the class it is in. It has front and rear crumple zones, air bags, seat belts, and an F1 style passenger safety cage. There are many design elements that come together in reducing the power requirements for exciting performance compared to Tesla designs. While supply chain recovery can't be precisely forecast, nor how smoothly the beta testing will go in validating parts and design elements, there is still a good chance that Aptera will be shipping the first production vehicles before the Cybertruck, even though they were announced around the same time.
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  101. I invested early on in Aptera Corp, knowing that there was an extremely small chance of any return. That however has changed and the odds are much better. I invested for the same reason I contribute to charities - to give the World a small push in the direction I want to see.
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  102.  @LodiVet  Aptera will gain range more than twice as fast as any Tesla plugged into the same charger.
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  103. From the Aptera FAQ: We will not know Aptera's actual rating until we pass a production vehicle through the full safety test. But we are designing to exceed all passenger car standards and the previous version had the highest roof crush strength of all passenger cars on the road, it performed exceedingly well in actual side and frontal crash tests. Aptera features a Formula One-inspired safety cell with advanced composites and metal structures for impact strength. Similar to aerospace and racing, these energy-absorbing methods are a core part of our safety strategy and have proven effective time and time again in high speed impacts.
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  104. It is the shape that provides much of the performance. If you are looking for a two seater, why just waste your money pushing air out of the way?
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  105.  @Capturing-Memories  Some people like to buy Hummers, too, but they scream "I don't know what I am doing with my money!".
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  106.  @aussieideasman8498  Sandy knew CPC many years ago when he was running the Dodge Viper production. Calling people "clowns" when you are the one who is ignorant is not presenting you in a good light.
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  107. I currently drive a Gen 1 Honda Insight. My Aptera will exceed the performance in every respect, including safety. The crash test results will be released before shipping.
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  108. It looks the way it does, because its form follows function. With a normal car you are spending 70% of your money pushing wind out of the way. I don't want to do that when I have a choice.
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  109. The ownership and running cost of Aptera has plummeted compared to other vehicles.
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  110. The advantage of solar on the vehicle is that I can take it camping and reach places that I would not otherwise have the battery capacity to reach. The power added through solar will easily pay for the $900 cost of the full solar upgrade, even as far North and as cloudy as Iowa where I live. and even with less than1/2 the solar range I might get in San Diego.
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  111. Motorcycles still need insurance in every state I have ridden in. The original Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. Idealab hired a CEO from Detroit who didn't want to build the original design, and had the founders removed from the board in 2009, and started claiming he was the founder. He couldn't raise funding for his new ideas, and liquidated the company in 2011. - it never went bankrupt. Both Steve and Chris founded new successful companies. Chris took his public as co-founder and CEO and it is still a strong buy. In 2019 he was offered the rights to the original company from the widow of the man who purchased them at the auction, and regathered the original key people. They started over with a different corporate structure and a fresh design.
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  112. A plug kit and a DC inflator will repair most punctures. I have used them successfully in over 400,000 miles of motorcycle travel for both my bikes and cars.
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  113. Tareq, the next Aptera vehicle planned is a 4 wheel 5 passenger sedan.
    3
  114.  @garrettlowell7637  Most of the people I know who plan to make Aptera their sole vehicle are probably what you would call "old people", including me. Perhaps you don't know that there is a specific provision for pets, including a "pet mode" and safety restraints designed to keep pets and their owners safe. You haven't done any of your homework on the vehicle and who has already ordered it at all.
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  115. Aptera has been aware of this issue from the beginning. The production tracking software is designed so that changes can be introduced on the fly without waiting for a model year change.
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  116. The Aptera foam sandwich body has a much higher r value compared to most vehicles. The climate control system can bring the temperature to a comfortable level before you return.
    3
  117. There are already 25,000 preorders, and interest will explode once the first models hit the street. They are also planning to introduce a 5 passenger, 4 wheel sedan for their next model. This company is going to have legs.
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  118. The big difference is the design of the Aptera was not a temporary fashion statement, but comes directly from the mission of the vehicle - to be as efficient as possible.
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  119.  @toyotaprius79  Aptera now has orders for fleet use. We could see special versions developed for the right order size.
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  120. The vehicle and company that they were taking preorders on in 2010 was a different one. The original company, Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. They hired a CEO from Detroit who never wanted to build the 3 wheeler, and he ousted the founders in a board coup in 2009. He was unable to raise funds for his new idea, and closed and liquidated the company in 2011. After taking a lithium battery company public as CEO, Chris Anthony was offered the IP rights to the original company from the widow of the man who bought them in the 2011 auction. He bought them, regathered the key members of the original team, including Steve Fambro, and others and restarted a new company - Aptera Corp in 2019, with completely different corporate structure and an almost completely different vehicle with no parts or even drive train concept in common with the original.
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  121. I am located in Iowa where it is presently 1 degree above zero, and will be testing your supposition personally. The ABS/Traction control can sense slip and adjust torque 32 times per second. That is about 2.5" of tread travel on each driven wheel. This is far more sensitive than any other vehicle on the road. As far as expensive at $25,900 before incentives it is less expensive that almost anything you could name that has similar performance.
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  122. Three years to amortize the feature is amazingly good.
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  123.  @paulmuresan8889  Ich habe deutsch an der Schule gelearnt, und nachher an die Uni im Freiburg im Br. studiert. :), I later learned to speak Persian and Japanese, which opened doors to jobs I wouldn't have otherwise gotten.
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  124. I got my order in the first hour they were available in Dec, 2020. The vehicle they will end up delivering is far more advanced than what I was expecting at that time.- it is now more like a super car.
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  125. Aptera is designed to be at least as safe as other automobiles, and will be voluntarily crash tested to FMVSS Part 200 standards and the results published as soon as there are production intent vehicles available to test.
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  126.  @vic321344  Why do you lie? Since you are so fond of Tesla, point us to the results for Cybertruck for comparison, LOL.
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  127.  @brunoheggli2888  I rode in a prototype and didn't find even it to be uncomfortable. The production models will be even better. However for rural Kent, width could be an issue. Once there are samples driving in the UK we will know more.
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  128. The next planned vehicle is a 5 seat, 4 wheel design.
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  129. Every object on the vehicle - including the body shape, has solid engineering reasons and aren't there as a fashion statement. I advise you to actually look into it. Even an early prototype I rode in greatly exceeded regular EVs in many ways. Production vehicles are going to be surprisingly awesome.
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  130. I got my order in the first hour they were open. The news regarding C.P.C. Group produced bodies means the vehicle they will deliver will be far better than what we initially ordered.
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  131. The batteries will be actively cooled and have a first class BMS.
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  132. Luck is not needed - they are engineered to be safe and will be publicly crash tested with the ratings released.
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  133. Electronics, suspension components, and a crumple zone. Edit: it looks like they have found the room for a small frunk, too. Design is evolving.
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  134. Hybrid systems require more parts, are more costly to produce, and have poorer performance do to more weight. They are a stop gap measure.
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  135. Chris Anthony has already co-founded and taken a lithium battery company public as CEO. They produce LFP batteries, so if they were a viable choice for this vehicle, I think Aptera would have been glad to use them. None of the Chinese vehicles offered now come close to Aptera in cost of operation or safety. This may change, but I don't see anything on the horizon at the moment with as sharp a focus as the Aptera has on its mission for any price.
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  136.  @durinok  I agree and I think Aptera themselves have always thought of this first model as a niche vehicle.
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  137. It will outperform most "cars", even in safety.
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  138.  @aussieideasman8498  So was the Tesla Cybertruck. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to the world supply chain situation?
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  139. The highest rate for the first models will be between 40-60 kW per hour, or about an hour to fully charge a 400 mile range battery pack (45 kW/huur pack - 40 kwh useable capacity)
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  140. No. 4 wheels would add weight, rolling resistance, air resistance, and cost, and an additional friction robbing bearing.
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  141. No. Completely different company and vehicle. The design you were thinking of was also called Aptera and had a similar shape, but that company was an Idealab project that kicked out the founders in 2009 and then couldn't raise further funding when they abandoned the original idea. They liquidated in 2011, while the original Aptera founders established new successful companies, and then started Aptera Corp in 2019.
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  142. Final pricing will be announced shorty before ship date, but in the 40K neighborhood for these first ones.
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  143. My thanks to you! It is always great to be able to look at your contributions when you eventually retire. I hope to experience your work first hand before long.
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  144. My hope is that we start to see some competitors. Aptera has already pushed the industry into adoption of the Tesla charging connector - now known as NACS. They put it on their first prototypes, got 10s of thousands of signatures on a petition to have it adopted as a US standard, and were the very first 3rd party company to get Tesla's permission to use it. They have already had a major influence on the industry.
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  145.  @yourhandlehere1  Yes, in person. I hope you have your chance, soon. You will find out that they are also "silly fast".
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  146.  @SevenDeMagnus  That is mere FUD. Aptera passes handling tests that many cars on sale in the US market can't now.- including many that don't release their safety data either - look it up! There will be further information on this when the validation data from the production intent vehicles is released - which will be even safer and better handling than the already very good prototypes. Top Gear even admitted that they had to rig the Reliant Robin to make it topple, and it isn't even close to the same class as Aptera in stability.
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  147.  @BlondieSuperdog  Thanks you for the good wishes. Tesla wasn't making money until long after they issued stock, and even then it came mostly from selling carbon credits. There are many other examples. Look at Lucid. Aptera probably won't be going public for 18 months or so. Chris Anthony has already taken a lithium battery company public and now has brought least two other people on board with a ton of experience in this area. These are people who could work anywhere. The fact that they have chosen Aptera should be instructive. Best of luck to you.
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  148.  @tonydeveyra4611  You have to look into Aptera's history. The founders originally partnered with Idealab. Idealab appointed a CEO from Detroit to start production in 2009. He decided he wanted to build a more conventional car instead and with the help of Google and some other large investors, he ousted the founders from control. He couldn't find backers for his plan, and returned the deposits and liquidated the company in 2011. Aptera's founders went on to found other successful companies. Chris Anthony took a lithium battery company public as CEO. He was offered the rights to the old Aptera in 2019, and regathered the original key people and restarted the company. I don't think Aptera is interested in a buyout at this point.
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  149.  @nlewis1111  Probably included in the first production models. We should have confirmation of this in a few days.
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  150. The arc of the door makes it less problematic than with a normal opening door. Aptera's front wheels fit inside a normal compact parking space.
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  151. Exactly. And your estimates don't even mention the likely saving that will accrue to all of us from the lower environmental damage that these vehicles will cause.
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  152.  @kenhiett5266  No, but you can use physics to improve things. Even my first Gen 1 Honda Insight was totaled by a rear end collision from an SUV whose driver fell asleep after dark on the Interstate. I was uninjured and this was 2000 tech. BTW, there is a steel and CF passenger safety cage as part of the design.
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  153.  @fourteenfour1  "is a near three year pay back " - pretty darn good, plus depending on how your grid is powered, a reduction in the stress on the grid - a big win for everyone, even those who can't use an Aptera.
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  154. They are designed to do very well on standard automotive crash tests, unlike other 3 wheelers. The safety ratings will be published after the tests are performed later in the year.
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  155. Starting at $25,900 before incentives.
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  156. Why ignore the genius of the vehicle? That is the only reason I have ordered one- not because of the marketing, however good it is.
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  157. It is WAY to far in advance to set launch pricing. Look at what happened to Rivian when they tried. While inflation has take a toll, battery prices are plummeting, and the labor, speed and scrap production of the new body panel system are far lower than the original vacuum resin production process would have been. Tooling is much more expensive, but costs are dramatically lower per body produced. We will have to wait and see, once all of the supply contracts are in place.
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  158. I will be getting an early Aptera for use in Iowa. I will be giving reports on my experience with it in winter conditions.
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  159. Preorders have been accepted and a German expert is working on homologation. Probably mid 2022 or later for orders placed now.
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  160. The Cybertruck is largely a fashion statement. Aptera is pure form follows function and will never go out of style until the physics it is based on changes.
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  161. The first production vehicles will deliver around 400 miles of range at EPA highway speeds. They will eventually have models with about 250, 400, 600, and 1,000 mile range.
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  162. Aptera will be crash tested by a third party to FMVSS part 200 standards and we will have the actual rating then.
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  163.  @TheGreatestJuJu  There are both front and rear crumple zones, air bags and an F1 style passenger safety cage. Wait for the crash tests.
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  164. Where did you hear that? There is video of prototypes on California highways. My wife and I had rides in an alpha model ourselves last November. No $1000 deposits were ever required by any version of Aptera. The original vehicle deposits were $500 and they were refunded when the company liquidated. The current deposits are $100, or $70 with a code, and they are refundable on request at any time.
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  165.  @GregDinAZ  Understood. Thanks for your reply. I have the same constraints. In my case, if the proposed federal rebate becomes a reality that would make a big difference. My wife and I had a ride in an alpha prototype in November and from a performance standpoint, 2WD is still thrilling. Since our Gen 1 Honda insight does OK in snow we think the 2WD will be fine. We are not in such a big hurry anymore that the large, heavy battery is worth it for us. We will take more breaks to recharge and save even more money sleeping in the back instead of finding a hotel room. We have ordered the 40 kWh model, but with full solar.
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  166. You would be surprised. First of all they aren't AAA batteries. Secondly, the 4 second zero to 60 times will be likely be humiliating to your Ramcharger -and your pocketbook when you compare the initial and and operational costs.
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  167. Much of the heat produced by the vehicle is from the wheel motors located in the wheel pants. It may not need any extra help for this function.
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  168.  @artboymoy  Wise. I just walked over to the grocery store, mainly for the exercise and got a couple of bags of chips. The only workers had driven in from out of town. All the locals had called in due to weather. The snow plows and private tractors are working continuously and can't keep up. We are now in blizzard conditions
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  169. It will greatly improve on the performance of my present car in every respect - cost, acceleration, payload, and on and on.
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  170. I am still driving my 2001 Honda Insight - on my second battery pack.
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  171. I don't think anyone "forgets". Tesla started with a much more expensive and less practical 2 seater. If you read their SEC reports, you will see that, like Tesla, this will only be the first of many vehicles for other, more mainstream customers - all focused on efficiency.
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  172. California does not require a front plate for motorcycles or autocycles - which Aptera is classed as.
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  173. The first models produced will be the 400 mile range ones. The 250 mile range versions, starting at around $25,900 will come later.
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  174. This is a very different vehicle and company than that one was, but there is some similar thinking behind it.
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  175. Yes. Good for over 200 cm
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  176. Damage will not necessarily greatly reduce the power output, but they can be easily replaced in the event of damage, or technical improvements.
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  177. Yes. And it isn't only saving money, but the lower carbon contribution is likely to save lives. In addition this is accomplished without compromising performance. The 4 second 0-60 times of the AWD version is going to put big grins on lots of faces.
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  178.  @bluetoad2668  Very unlikely. They don't have any of the factors in place now that led to the first liquidation, and many plusses that even Tesla didn't have in their beginning, including more honest leadership.
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  179.  @ernestgalvan9037  I see you didn't follow. There is still plenty of room to find market niches that are not yet addressed, which was true of the Roadster and is true of Aptera.
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  180. Elio was a poor copy of the original Aptera with impossible price targets.
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  181.  @ssing7113  You just outed yourself as a wilting flower if that is your worry.
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  182. Not the first time I have seen this question. My guess is yes, but I will be happy to test it when I take delivery if we don't know the answer yet.
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  183. Yes.
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  184. That last claim is no longer true. Silicon solar modules are primarily composed of glass, plastic, and aluminum: three materials that are recycled in mass quantities.
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  185. The solar capacity can cover the average driving needs of the average driver in the US SW. However, the Aptera can be plugged into grid power, and is compatible with Tesla power plugs.
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  186. Aptera's shape is almost pure form follows function - not some arbitrary fashion statement. The first vehicles will come with a 400 mile range battery, and will charge to full in an hour at a Tesla Supercharger.
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  187. Far safer than anything else in its class. It comes with front and rear crumple zones, an F1 style passenger safety cage, seat belts and air bags, and will be voluntarily crash tested to automotive safety standards. The results will be published before shipping starts.
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  188. There is a "pet mode" to leave the AC on while parked. Whether solar can keep up with the battery discharge in Phoenix at 120 F or higher remains to be seen, but it will help. A fan will blow the hot air past the AC condenser and out the tail of the vehicle.
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  189. Future 250 mile range vehicles may be able to add back the 3rd seat. If not, the next Aptera Corp vehicle is likely to be a 5 seater.
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  190. I live in rural Iowa, surrounded by gravel roads. I don't think the roads would be any worse in Canada. I do wonder about extended -40 weather in some areas. I will report on my experience with an early model.
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  191. They will be showing the gamma model at Fully Charged Live in San Diego in a couple of weeks that is about 80% there. delta (production models) will be ready early next year.
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  192. Yes, Aptera can sleep two people for camping.
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  193. Not unusual in California, sadly.
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  194.  @firemanflorence  There is a 250 mile range model in the works for $25,900.
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  195. The separate parts come from third party suppliers that also supply Tesla and Mercedes (and probably others) They are not Tesla IP. The software interface was designed and programmed by Crank software of Canada.
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  196.  @angrydragonslayer  The extra charge to buy an Aptera with 700 watts of capacity is $900, installed. In my case, the solar production will continue to occur and be usable when I am on trips. The added range will clearly pay for itself when compared to the cost of fuel, or even fast charging stations. I don't think your numbers present a fair use case for many people who don't return to the same location every night.
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  197. Remember that ongoing cost of ownership should be a part of your calculation.
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  198. That wasn't the same vehicle, although it had a similar shaped body. The design of the current vehicle, which has a completely different drive train, size, and construction technique, started in 2019.
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  199. They swing up. There is more clearance than with standard doors that swing out.
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  200. No one can foretell the future with certainty, but those of us who are in early can help make it happen. I think the risk of being wrong is worth it for the world we can be giving our grand children if we are right.
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  201. NDAs.
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  202. The first is a big yes. The second will vary by local laws.
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  203. More cash would be welcome and speed up deliveries. However they are in much better shape than Tesla was in Dec. 2008. They seem to have had better cash management, and have doubled their cash position from their last two SEC reports.
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  204. As a car nut who has followed similar ideas to the Aptera going back to the A. Morelli shape back in the '80s, I am thrilled with both the concept and the practicality my wife and I experienced during a ride in a prototype. The acceleration must be experienced. This is not just an "economy" car.
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  205. Learn how to do some due diligence. The last company Chris Anthony co-founded and took public as CEO is rated a strong buy on the market by every analyst following it. Any startup is risky, but "Kickstarter scams" are not partnered with the world's top automotive suppliers.
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  206.  @diegomarxweiller1814  CPC of Modena Italy, the same company that makes bodies for Lamborghini, Yazaki of Japan, the largest wiring harness supplier, Roush Performance for suspension and other parts, I could go on, but this is all stuff you could have found out for yourself if you weren't so lazy or didn't know how. We are beginning to think that you have no idea how to do your own research or thinking.
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  207.  @diegomarxweiller1814  There are at least three. If you didn't know that, you probably don't even know the name of the company. Hint: they are now a major supplier to Delta Airlines.
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  208. Yes. Current models are compatible with 240 VAC power and RHD models are planned.
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  209. No, you can plug into any available grid power source as well, including a Tesla Supercharger. In fact, it is because of Aptera that the Supercharger system has opened up as NACS to the rest of the industry.
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  210.  @diegomarxweiller1814  You are just showing your extreme ignorance here. Why do you think it is the standard? Chris Anthony included it in the very first prototypes because he looked at all the options and knew it was superior, even though it was proprietary. He asked Elon for permission to use it. Then he created a petition that over 40,000 people signed the company's petition to make Tesla superchargers and plugs the U.S. standard. I was one of them. “We're thrilled about this news and applaud Tesla for allowing and encouraging the EV industry to utilize its superior technology,”
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  211.  @diegomarxweiller1814  LOL Afraid of having your ignorance so publicly exposed? Perhaps you could inform yourself before spouting nonsense. I don't work for Aptera - but I have given them some of my own money. Everything I have done for them has been entirely volunteer.
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  212. The development vehicles will test these edge cases. The system is designed to operate well over a temperature range of -20 to 125 F. It should be fine in the Phoenix area, although going out of town up hill on a 6 or 7% grade for more than 10 minutes may result in some reduction of speed on a hot day as cooling limits are reached.
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  213. No different than with any car...
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  214.  @simonthebroken9691  The wait won't be long - perhaps end of the year or early next year. My wife and I have both ridden in one.
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  215. I did my due diligence on Elio back in the day. They were an obvious scam to anyone who looked at the company closely. Aptera passes such an inspection.
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  216. Depending on time of year, and the particular day. and location. Might be better to say "up to" ...or at least 13 miles for each hour plugged into a standard 110 VAC outlet.
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  217. Sandy is an investor and designed the factory floor layout. I am sure he will continue to weigh in.
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  218. Aptera will be tested by a third party to the same FMVSS Part 200 standards that cars are subject to and the results will be published.
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  219.  @allhonesty848  I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles, so I have never relied on crash protection to keep me safe (although I certainly used helmets and padding) My first Honda Insight was hit from behind at 65 mph by an SUV and I was uninjured. I replaced it with a similar model. In my judgement, Aptera will be even safer, but I will have more evidence when the crash test results are released. Of course the Aptera is FAR bigger than the Smart Car, with much larger crumple zones. Your comment makes me think you haven't looked into it.
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  220. The wait with this new, more capable design is likely to be much shorter. They learned their lesson about bringing in a Detroit "expert" and losing control of the company to him.
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  221. Production vehicles will have multiple levels of regeneration.
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  222. Pretty sure you shouldn't...
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  223. Depending on the local area it may be called an autocycle. It is certainly its own vehicle, but will be built and safety tested to automotive standards.
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  224.  @markplott4820  It is easy to be a hater when you have done zero research into it. You have zero evidence that this is the case.
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  225. They do share this information, and publish a solar insolation chart that tells you how much you can expect. In San Diego, you can gain as much as 4,4 kWhs. In my area of Iowa it is more like 2 kWh. Look at the charts they publish for your own area.
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  226. I live in Iowa where it has been below zero for the past couple of days. The abs/traction control should make it a gem with proper tires. I will be reporting on my experience, possibly as soon as next year this time.
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  227. Aptera has always been presented as a niche vehicle, but the size of the niche is far larger than the founder's had originally imagined. There are now well over 38,000 pre-orders (not the number mentioned in the video) but I think that once a few are on the road the demand will explode. There are many retired couples and young people where the low cost of operation will be extremely attractive. And as one of the few couples who have hand a chance to ride in a prototype,, my wife and I know that the performance even of the 2WD version is major fun!.
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  228. I think they both use common 3rd party suppliers.
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  229.  @airbnbphotography  A fast charger with 50 amps, 400 VDC will charge a 400 mile range battery Aptera to full in about one hour. We will know exactly once the validation testing of the PI vehicles is finished. It is not the fastest, but the range is such that it is certainly practical. You can certainly use an adapter to other cables if you wish, but it would be more bulky and soon all stations will be using the NACS plug as standard. Due to the solar assist and 110 and 220/240 VAC charging capability most users will never need to visit a fast charger in any case. If needed the possibility is there.
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  230.  @airbnbphotography  Yes, the motors are wheel motors. This has the disadvantage of adding unsprung weight.But not an outrageous amount, just over 50 lbs per wheel. The advantages include no drive shaft bearing and additional weight and friction, plus much faster acting traction control that can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution-or about every 2.5 inches of tread travel.
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  231. Lucky you. Here in Iowa, I will get more like 20 miles per day. Still worth the full solar option.
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  232.  @charlesbreaux5475  Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9_UTks8m9c
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  233. Yes. There are already preorders from Europe and the UK (don't know if I can include them now!)
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  234. It had better - I live in rural Iowa and mine will be seeing a lot of gravel roads. I will report on how it does year round.
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  235. Australia will register it as a car.
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  236. Aptera has front and rear crumple zones and air bags. It will be voluntarily tested to FMVSS Part 200 automotive crash test standards by a third party and the results made public.
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  237. Hidden under the front cowl.
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  238. I live in Iowa and will be getting an early model. I will let you know how it performs there.
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  239. Yes, Chris Anthony is 6'4". We have seen video of journalists as tall as 6'8 sitting in the gamma with head and leg room to spare.
    2
  240. I suggest looking into what is already in place. Funding, key suppliers, a factory - they are doing what they need to at a far faster pace than has been typical in the industry.
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  241. I will be driving mine year 'round in Iowa, and will report on my experience.
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  242. I wonder why? They have a much better chance at this point than Tesla did after their first 3 years.
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  243. We just found out that the solar panels will be covered with glass rather than plastic.
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  244. You need more than 25 cu ft of storage for your luggage?
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  245.  @rickstokes2239  It will do better than my current Gen 1 Honda Insight which has carried my wife and I cross country with all our camping gear.
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  246. Heating spec'd down to -20 F.
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  247. I live in Iowa where we get a lot less solar insolation than California, but solar is still likely to meet most of my daily driving needs except for trips, and it will be welcome for camping. Around 62% of our grid power comes from wind, so occasionally plugging in is less damaging than in many places.
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  248. Good for you, I have done the same.
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  249. Wait 'til you have a chance to ride in one, as I have. I have an order in for one to use in rural Iowa year round.
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  250. Perhaps most EVs. But Aptera has saved enough "wasted" power to make it pay off.
    2
  251.  @noleftturns  You can mock, but you will end up being sorry.
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  252.  @noleftturns  I have ridden in a prototype and I can assure you from personal experience that the performance is no joke. You seem rather confident when you have no experience in one.
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  253. I live in Iowa, not exactly the middle of the sun belt, and my Aptera solar panels will amortize in about 4 years or less.
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  254.  @noleftturns  You clearly haven't done sufficient investigation into this vehicle - too bad you are setting yourself up to miss a Lamborghini type production at a bargain price.
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  255.  @markplott4820  Yes, do that, and you will discover why two billion dollar VC funds have invested in the last two months. There is not a hint of fraud in any of the associates of the companies' long track record, including co-founding and as CEO taking a lithium battery company public.
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  256.  @redwolfexr  Several untruths in this article. The motorcycle endorsement may still apply in a single state, and there are proposals to change this even there. Cross winds just won't have any significant surface area to exert force on. It is FAR more stable than any slab sided SUV in cross winds. The cargo capacity is better both in weight and volume compared to our Gen 1 Honda Insight, which already meets our needs as a couple.
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  257.  @redwolfexr  While Elio Motors did not make much progress in building vehicles, their lobbying efforts along with others have caused dozens of states to adopt laws recognizing autocycles. I have over 400,000 miles on motorcycles some in some of the windiest areas of the country. I own a Gen 1 Honda Insight that I have crossed the West in several times, including passing trucks in 80 mph side winds. You have incorrect information about the shape, which has been wind tunnel tested in side winds over 100 mph.
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  258.  @JC-cf4rs  completely false narrative. It is quite easy to look up the public record as I have.
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  259. It will float, but nose down. You wouldn't want to test it.
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  260. Safety as as a big a focus of Aptera's design as efficiency. Crash testing to automotive safety standards will be carried out as soon as there are production ready vehicles available to test and the ratings will be public.
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  261. Wheel motors can still have some advantages, depending on the maximum speed desired, basically by lowering the number friction points. It will still present trade-offs - as every engineering solution does.
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  262.  @asadyousaf2834  Very much so. An Aptera with full solar starts at $26,900 before incentives.
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  263.  @fanfare100  Actually, I was too high by $100. The base price is $25,900. Adding the solar roof and the rear hatch adds $900 to the cost of the vehicle. The solar hood and dash are included in the base price.
    2
  264. 2025 more likely.
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  265. More discussion on Reddit at r/ApteraMotors
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  266. The Aptera has a very innovative cooling system and BMS that will be covered by patents. When the car is not in motion, it won't be producing heat.
    2
  267. Walking is good. It might even increase the oxygen flow to your brain enough to improve your thinking to the point you change your mind.
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  268. For some, It won't be. Others will be able to meet their entire energy needs through the full solar option.
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  269. Many pickup trucks are wider and they use drive throughs all the time.
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  270. Plenty of room in back. You can even order a pet kit.
    2
  271. The first Apterae will be delivered from Southern California, and they will have mobile repair people located there. Since Aptera is a right to repair, company, any independent repair shop can be used or you can do such work yourself. Aptera plans 24 hour parts turn around, and repair procedures will often be accessible through QR codes. I have checked with my local shops in Iowa, and they can't wait to work on it.
    2
  272.  @LodiVet  Agreed, except that Aptera may be able to use the supercharger network, and an Aptera charging at 1/2 the speed of a supercharger will still gain range faster than a Tesla due to the 100 watt hours per mile energy efficiency.
    2
  273.  @StageRight123  I live in Iowa. I expect the AWD model will be very good in snow with the proper tires because of a superior traction control system that can sense slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. It has already proven it can run on ski slopes in Switzerland with the snow over the bottom of the wheel pants.
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  274. The braking performance will be fine because of the weight. 60-0 in under 120 ft.
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  275. Yes, and not only efficient, but with performance that equals FUN!, plus surprising utility. My wife and I have ridden in a prototype and can't wait to get ours.
    2
  276. Probably so. They are considering compatibility with various 3rd party adaptations for various handicaps.
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  277. Both can be done, it is not either/or.
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  278. That will come once several PI vehicles are crash tested during the validation process.
    2
  279. Wonderful! My wife and I rode in Luna with Daniel Morris driving. You can be proud of your work.
    2
  280. Four states require a motorcycle license to operate Aptera at present: Alaska, Georgia, South Dakota, and Washington. This is changing.
    2
  281. From 400 to 1000 mile range 1800-2200 lbs. About the same as my Gen 1 Honda Insight.
    2
  282. 50 kW continuous or about 201 hp for the AWD version.
    2
  283.  @stevefambro189  Als Amerikaner auch, deine Antwort macht mir unheimlich Stoltz. Ich can auch Japanisch und Persisch.
    2
  284.  @TremereTT  Nein, es ist RPM begrenzt..
    2
  285.  @phamnuwen9442  I have worked in nuclear power (in the manufacture of fuel rods) and this is crazy. I don't have enough time to go into all the reasons why, but they include social factors as well as technical ones.
    2
  286.  @phamnuwen9442  The full cost of nuclear plants was deeply subsidised, just as OIl and Coal have been. If the playing field were level, at this point neither one would even be in the same league as to costs, compared to renewables and the difference is only going to increase.
    2
  287.  @phamnuwen9442  Not a fair measure because of the cost of decommissioning nuclear.
    2
  288. ​ @phamnuwen9442  Your points 3, 4, 7, and 8 are sadly false. Which is why the economics of 4 are causing it to be phased out.
    2
  289.  @phamnuwen9442  Yes, I think the general elimination of these subsidies, except possiblyfor some marginalized groups that were affected from localized pollution is a good idea.
    2
  290. Cammi, the video is just the first prototype. They are building two more development vehicles now which will go through a whole series of validation tests. These will result in changes and improvements to the production models, which will continue to be improved even after production starts.
    2
  291. It is not only aerodynamic from the front, but also other directions. There is downforce built into the shape and it is more stable than most slab sided vehicles on the road, even those with 4 wheels.
    2
  292. You are correct that there is less resistance loss if you can use 240v. Aptera will charge at a rate of 30 miles per hour if you have one.
    2
  293. What Jim is talking about is a legal fiction. Aptera will exceed almost every performance spec of my present 2 seat car, including payload capacity. The 100 watt hour per mile power capacity is not "fake" It is based on a worst case AWD model that will be much heavier than the 2WD model I have ordered. Jim can't even report the actual numbers Aptera claims properly. Why is that? Because his entire FUD is made up.
    2
  294. Well, they are not vaporware - my wife and I have both ridden in a prototype. And they are not yet on the stock market. Unlike "hobbyist" projects, Aptera has the backing of major automotive suppliers in the US, Asia, and Europe. When the funding comes through to produce the tooling, production will start.
    2
  295. Aptera's second vehicle is likely to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  296. Not efficiently. Just plug it in at night. It will gain 13 miles of range per hour plugged into a standard 110 volt 15 amp outlet.
    2
  297. Congratulations! If you just placed your preorder, it is likely that the delivery won't be until 3rd quarter 2022 unless they ramp up production faster than I expect. However, you will get a more mature car with possibly better features than will be ready for the first ones.
    2
  298. The main issue with AC at the moment is the lack of transportation qualified reversing valves. That will come, probably as a phase in upgrade later in production, and could potentially be retrofited.
    2
  299. Why would I want to drive around a Model 3 that uses 2.5 times the power of Aptera if Aptera meets my needs?
    2
  300.  @wallykramer7566  have you ever driven in snow? Skinny tires help - especially if they are snow tires. With AWD it should be awesome because of the traction control.
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  301. Probably won't happen. In some of these states, you can;t even roll a dresser bike through the area that it is required to turn in with the wheel at lock. They provide a small bike that the test must be taken on.
    2
  302. With the present panels the true energy gain is more like 4 or 4.2 kWh on a sunny day, but your point still holds. Solar panel efficiency is likely to increase and cost come down over the next 20 years as well. Aptera has IP over a design that makes them easy to replace in the event of damage or technical improvement.
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  303. It was done so they don't compress too much air between the wheel pods and the body. It is the best way to reduce air resistance - critical to the performance.
    2
  304.  @AkbarNurPribadi  That would increase the frontal area, and thus greatly increase the wind resistance. Of course you are correct that the extra width in front also gives more stability. Having three wheels reduces rolling resistance, weight, and cost, compared to 4. Since the goal is to build the most efficient vehicle for the job, a whole series of factors come into play.
    2
  305. At 65 mph the "400" mile EPA range vehicle will still likely get 270 mile range.
    2
  306. The company, Aptera Corp. was only founded in 2019 and design work begun. Do your research. It is possible that customer vehicles could start shipping by the end of next summer, depending on how funding goes and the results of the validation testing of the initial production intent vehicles, including crash testing.
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  307.  @emptyshirt  I certainly hope they do!
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  308. With over 32 sq. ft. of cargo space, should be little issue.
    2
  309. I suggest you experience an LE model in person before you make up your mind.
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  310. Actually, this fear is not correct. I have ridden in one. There is plenty of room between each front tire and the trailing rear tire in the center - almost 4 ft, to make straddling potholes and debris usually possible. In addition there is no low hanging air dam to be damaged as there is on many Japanese small cars, including my present one. Aptera is even better at this.
    2
  311. No one who understands the hydrogen fuel cycle would agree for personal transportation. It is an obvious dead end.
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  312. Aptera can be charged at a rate of 13 MPH range gain plugged into a standard 110VAC outlet, or around 400 miles per hour plugged into a Tesla Supercharger.
    2
  313.  @joesmith201212  You apparently aren't aware that the configuration of the controllers makes a large difference in how a panel can charge. Conventional roof top panels can lose much of their output from the shadow of a power line for instance. That is not the case with the Aptera controllers. You should actually investigate before making uninformed statements.
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  314. The first is a matter of taste, and will likely be addressed by the aftermarket. I was concerned about the window myself, but found it wasn't the issue I expected in the prototype I rode in. I had to think about it to even notice it. I am withholding judgement until I have a chance to experience a production vehicle because the dimensions have changed from the prototype I rode in,, and I think the line will be thinner. It may depend on the height of the driver, but I think it will be OK for most.
    2
  315.  @youxkio  Could be, but studies show that vacuum infusion panels in general are less flammable than conventional layup methods. This is likely to be a minor concern even compared to to other FG bodied vehicles.
    2
  316. In the case of Aptera that would be less than 10 pounds, including circuitry.
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  317.  @ALE5six1  $25,900 was the announced base price for the original planned 2WD solar hood 250 mile range model. I am beginning to think that they may only do full solar models going forwards. While inflation has been on going, battery prices have dropped considerably, and the per body cost of the CPC bodies is likely to be much lower than the old vacuum resin infusion prices and have less waste. I don't think we will have a better idea until they are near production, and the 250 mile (or so) range models are still a ways off. I think 1000 mile range vehicles will surely be well over $ 50K unless battery prices continue to go down rapidly (which may happen).
    2
  318.  @ALE5six1  I appreciate your interest. No, Elio Motors vibe is not a good thing. They were a scam. 3 wheels provides a major reduction of rolling resistance, and is especially important at lower speeds. Air resistance is the major power loss at highway speeds, so both are important. 3 wheels also lowers weight and cost. Even though it is not required by law, Aptera will be submitted to the same FMVSS crash testing as other cars and the results will be published. We have already seen video of the beta prototype passing the moose test - something that many vehicles on US roads can't do.
    2
  319.  @alaricgoldkuhl155  Tesla was converting the Lotus Elise to an electric sports car, but there were already several electrics on the market when the Tesla design started, including the Commuter Car Company Tango - which was a hot rod, and the Ford Th!nk which sold around 1,000 copies. Tesla did not get started in a vacuum.
    2
  320. Falsehood. The company was only created in 2019, and the design was essentially finished in December of 2022.
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  321. Chris Anthony, one of the co-founders, is 6'4" . People up to around 6'8" should find it fairly comfortable.
    2
  322.  @marcc.490  It is too early to know. Once the initial funding hurtle is crossed, Aptera will be moving more strongly to explore release and even production in other countries. Step by Step. It is Aptera's hope to get the vehicle into Australia.
    2
  323. Thomas, while this is not investment advice, you are not alone.
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  324. In addition SAE will be designing a test protocol to insure that NACS equipment from different manufacturers will be compatible.
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  325. 2025
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  326. Production displays are somewhat smaller.
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  327. Probably. I bet we see them and everyone else move in that direction.
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  328. I plan to drive my 2WD Aptera year round in Iowa. My present wheels are a Gen 1 Honda Insight, which does OK. With the ABS/traction controls, I think Aptera will be better. Edit - I have switched my order to AWD.
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  329. Sadly, the availability of transportation qualified reversing valves has a rather dramatic lead time of at least 3 years compared to off the shelf availability before Covid. This is impacting Aptera and likely other companies as well. The higher r value of the Aptera bodies will help compensate for some of this comparative loss.
    2
  330.  @belovedrock.  Great comment, but a correction. While the first Apteras will all come with an air conditioning compressor (technically a heat pump) transportation qualified reversing valves which allow the compressor to supply heat wont be available for the first production vehicles. You are correct about the body shell. It is a foam filled sandwich and the r value - which measures insulation performance - will be far higher than the typical vehicle, making the thermal load on the system far lower.
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  331.  @Roshiyu  One place where it will be thoroughly tested is the Elaphe winter weather test track. We will have video after this occurs.
    2
  332. Aptera is pure form follows function - not some fickle fashion statement.
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  333. Aptera has been designed from the beginning to meet FMVSS Part 200 crash test standards, will be voluntarily tested by a third party and do well. Don't spread falsehoods.
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  334. The Aptera solar cells will likely add less than 3 lbs to the weight of the car, perhaps a 1/100th % reduction in range. House mounted solar cells may be a great option and the 100 kWh battery may add value for increased V2G storage at a bargin price. However, the energy collected by full solar is still likely to be enough to pay for itself even in Iowa over the life of the vehicle and will allow camping trips to places that otherwise couldn't be reached, if you plan to use your vehicle this way.
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  335.  @Capt.Kira_FoeHammer  Elio Motors has always been a fake. Aptera Corp founders have successful backgrounds. Chris Anthony took his last company public as CEO.
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  336.  @stephen3164  You are completely correct. The entire Aptera vehicle was conceived of as a niche vehicle, just as the first Tesla was. It is just that that niche has turned out to be considerably larger than the founders ever expected. This is what has caused the delay as Aptera switches from low volume vacuum resin infusion production to stamped carbon fiber/SMC. Even though only a fraction of owners will find Solar very useful, it will not take huge numbers to save millions of lives over the next century. That is why the solar panel contribution shouldn't be ignored. See the paper on this "Quantifying Global Greenhouse Gas Emissions in Human Deaths to Guide Energy Policy by Joshua M. Pearce and Richard Parncutt
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  337. They are already producing production parts. The first validation vehicles will come together early next year and start validation testing. If all goes well, the first production vehicles could be delivered as early as end of next summer. (that might be a bit optimistic, but it is coming.)
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  338. The top surface of all full solar vehicles will be black, due to the solar cell color. For the bottom skin of the car, used for the A/C condenser, black is the most efficient color, but it won't make a big difference because of the large surface area.
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  339.  @paulmuresan8889  The car in the video does not have full solar. Look up "black body radiation" to get an understanding of color and heat. The better a surface is at absorbing heat, the better it is at radiating it, too, in general. There are conductive and convective effects besides the radiant ones, and all of these should be taken into account to judge the overall performance.
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  340.  @paulmuresan8889  There is a zoom call on Thursday, where there will be a chance to ask one of the designers questions directly.
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  341.  @paulmuresan8889  I don't know how good the Aptera will be for the use case of many Europeans, especially due to the width of the vehicle, but I am sure there will be some. I would love to try one out on the Autobahn if I were still a European environmental sales and tech support manager visiting client sites. I speak German, and my sister lives in England at the moment, so I would love to spend more time there.
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  342. Yes. It will not only cool the cabin, but also the battery pack and wheel/inverter cooling circuits when the vehicle is traveling at slow speed or stopped for charging. It takes in cool air from under the front windshield cowl and blows the heat out vents in the rear.
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  343. Australian press has been referring to it as a car. I don't think we know how Australia will class it yet, but Aptera wants to bring it to Australia and is already working with authorities there to meet Australian requirements.
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  344. Full solar on this car is 700 peak watts at the beginning and the rear hatchback is completely covered.
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  345. I had a ride in the Luna (silver) prototype before Thanksgiving. Yes, in the alpha prototypes the ride is sportscar like and there is a lot of suspension noise. There are many changes already made in the betas they are testing now, including a much more compliant and quieter suspension. Along with making it smoother and quieter, they have also further improved the handling, and these are going to be a LOT of fun to drive- especially measured against any previous "economy" car.
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  346.  @zodiacfml  Yes, and tire rolling resistance is a big one, too. I presently drive a Gen 1 Honda Insight which has met our needs very economically. Aptera will let us sleep in it for camping and have a far lower cost to actually use. Aptera gives back a great deal. It also has Gen 1 Tesla Roadster acceleration at 1/3 the purchase price, without breaking transmissions
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  347. Registeed as a motorcycle, but will be tested to Automotive crash standards includes front and side airbags and other safety features. I expect it to rate well.
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  348.  @peterchandler8505  Exactly. The relative inefficiency means that hydrogen can never be as environmentally or as cost effective as battery/solar, even allowing for the manufacturing energy inputs.
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  349. The order is not binding. It is refundable by request at any time. There was a 1/2 price Christmas special, and you can get a code from any preorder holder for $30 off the $100 Check the web site if you want to take advantage of it. There are over 15,000 preorders now. At least it will get you a place in line.
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  350. Aptera will be voluntarily crash tested to the same standard of every other car or truck in the US by a third party- FMVSS Part 200. The results will be published, unlike many SUVs and trucks for sale in the US.
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  351. Aptera was considering use of hemp from the beginning when they were planning to use vacuum resin infusion. At that time they thought the demand would be for around 5,000 vehicles. Pre-order numbers forced them to go to a faster production method, and a side result is that the precision fit of the body panels is improved.
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  352. It doesn't take much due diligence to see that they are nothing alike. The Aptera company founders have a record of successful startups, including a lithium battery company that Chris Anthony took public as co-founder and CEO.
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  353. Aptera actually holds a bumper patent, but the answer is no. They do have engineered crumple zones.
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  354. The "dorky" thing is your personal reaction and I can't address it. However, as soon as Aptera has production intent vehicles available, they will be crash tested by a third party to FMVSS Part 200 standards and the ratings will be published. i think they will do very well.
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  355. No question that it is risky. Sometimes we donate what we can to charities that have the chance to make a world we wish to see without necessarily needing a sure return on our money.
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  356.  @FutureAzA  That is in line with my own thinking, as far as my own pocketbook can take it.
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  357.  @icosthop9998  I live in Iowa, not exactly the sun belt, but the cost of the solar will clearly amortize, and pay for most of my local travel, except when we go on long trips. It will also be useful for camping, and get us to destinations we could not otherwise stay comfortably at.
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  358. It is about 8" wider than your Titan, not counting your mirrors,, so that might be quite a feat.
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  359. They already have preorders from the UK and are committed to a right hand drive model.
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  360. You need to do your homework. Even in Iowa, where I will get perhaps 1/2 the maximum daily range, it will likely meet most of my driving requirements from solar alone.
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  361.  @bobhilder1469  Bob, there are no electric motorcycles on the road that are more efficient than Aptera at EPA highway speeds, or even close.
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  362.  @bobhilder1469  We have EPA highway number estimates for Aptera. Do you have the data for "city" speeds, and if so, what speed are you talking about? The large advantage of Aptera is in Cd and frontal area. If you negate that, there may well be other vehicles that could pull ahead due to lighter weight, lower power, and lower rolling resistance, but at a huge hit to their safety. And anyone making a trip on the highway of any of the vehicles you suggest,, will not come close to the Aptera performance under similar conditions.
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  363.  @bobhilder1469  You can read their claims as well as I can. ABRP has Aptera modeled with their data so you can play with the performance at different speeds and assumptions.
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  364. You could convert a miata, but it would lose more range due to rolling and wind resistance, for starters.
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  365.  @danharold3087  It is far from clear that either EA or Ford will sell chargers sourced from Tesla. There will be plenty of other sources for chargers meeting the same spec. You may be right though.
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  366. The shapes were inspired by wind tunnel testing, which is likely to be true of both vehicles.
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  367. Aptera is already getting fleet orders and has just started a fleet order section, probably defined as a corporate order for 5 or more vehicles, but this is still in development.
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  368. It is.
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  369. James, I look forward to your reports! I will be getting one of the first Paradigm edition models and using it in Iowa.
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  370. I 5 seater may be next in line.
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  371. This is not like any other 3 wheel car and every one of these issues has been more than addressed with this design.
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  372. It is not just for stability. It compresses the air less between the wheel pants and the body and improves the aerodynamics as well.
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  373. Enough to cover the daily average commute distance for many owners of Aptera - hardly a stupid choice that also helps an overloaded grid.
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  374.  @markplott4820  Stop repeating this lie. It isn't true.
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  375. ​ @jjackson3240  Mark is mistaken. I currently meets all of the requirements that apply and will be voluntarily tested by a third party to the FMVSS Part 200 crash test standards and the ratings published as soon as production intent vehicles are available to test. The Tesla Cybertruck has the same status.
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  376.  @markplott4820  Lol! FUD.
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  377. The second planned Aptera Motors vehicle is a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  378. The front and rear sections of the vehicle are designed as crumple zones to absorb the energy of the impact and protect the passengers.
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  379. Not so much, yet, but it will be fully tested at the Elaphe cold weather test track next season.
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  380. Probably pretty good for the AWD model with snow tires. The ABS/traction control can sense and adjust torque every 2.5 inches of tread travel - far more quickly than any other car in the road. There will be video of the performance from the Elaphe winter test track later this season
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  381. The 1000 mile range model won't be available for years yet - It will require taller form factor batteries that aren't in production yet. It will also be the least efficient of all the models. If V2G becomes available, I could see a case being made for it, however.
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  382.  @stefen2157  There is hardly a lack of space compared to other cars of similar size. The rear cargo area holds 32 cu ft of storage, and will accommodate long items - or sleep 2 rather tall people for camping trips. The bigger limitation may not be space, but total weight capacity, which is stated to be 500 lbs. Rather good for its purpose, and not out of line with other 2 seat, 4 wheel vehicles.
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  383. Handles would interfere with air flow. I will report on my experience with one in snowy Iowa.
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  384.  @garywozniak7742  And even a tall couple can sleep in the back.
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  385. I have to push back on some of your claims. The 3 wheeled Reliant Robin led Reliant to become the 2nd largest automotive manufacturer in Britain and it is still the largest production volume fiberglass bodied car. Do your research.
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  386. The original pricing for the base model was targeted at $25,900 in 2020. I expect that the first production models will come in under $40,000 - perhaps significantly under, but they won't announce pricing until they know what their costs will be, perhaps middle of next year. Battery prices - a big part of the total- have been falling.
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  387. This is unknown at present. The designers know it is a desirable goal, but it may conflict with the desire to make the battery packs a structural part of the car. We should know more about this before long.
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  388. It is in the proposal but we won't know for sure until the bill is signed.
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  389. Aptera does hope to be able to use the Tesla connector, and all the others with adapters.
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  390.  @joecummings1260  Current efficiency of the Aptera cells is 22-23% and they have 700 peak watts in the full solar model. There have been some tech breakthroughs that hint at 66% efficiency being possible in the future. The Aptera cells are designed to be easily replaced in the event of damage, or new tech. However, this is a bit beside the point. The reason it works so well is that the car uses less than 100 watt hours per mile at EPA highway cycle speeds and makes the most of any energy source. If the added range is not a big plus, on hot days you could still run the a/c while the car is parked and come back to a cool car without reducing your battery charge. For me, the full solar option is a no brainer.
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  391. You have not yet grasped the purpose or benefits of the design. However with right to repair, owners can do whatever they wish with one.
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  392. There are more than 45,000 paid pre-orders now. Perhaps only 30% or so of those will close, but the vast majority of the potential market has never even heard of Aptera yet. Once they start to experience the performance and cost of operation, sales will go through the roof!
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  393.  @berndbroot587  And I have ridden in a real Aptera prototype.
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  394. Love your comment, but I am 73, and an early pre-order holder and investor. Some of us have kept our ear to the ground.
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  395.  @mitobi  Ah, sorry I mis-understood. Yes, new thinking is hard and always resisted. It comes with the territory.
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  396. I am thrilled to say I will have one of the first 50. I expect to have mine in the Feb time frame, realistically.
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  397. Yes, a tiny bit of due diligence showed that they were a scam from the beginning. The same kind of work shows that Aptera has little in common with them except for a 3 wheel design.
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  398. Sadly, yes. They will continue on a much smaller scale as a solar panel company.
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  399. My wife and I rode in a 2WD prototype and they are Amazing fun - not what you expect from an "economy car". AWD is better than the first Tesla Roadsters.
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  400. The shape was designed in the early '80s by A. Morelli. The physics of it hasn't changed.
    2
  401.  @robertkirchner7981  It will. This will be one of the features that can be chosen specifically for leaving pets in the car.
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  402. It serves all of the functionality of a car. It is only a motorcycle by legal classification. If it walks like a duck....
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  403. It is NOT yet a production car, but I am convinced now that they will get there. Parts ARE being produced now. I expect first deliveries late summer, after crash testing and other validation work is completed.
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  404. Another Chris Anthony company has produced thousands of vehicles this way. Not just carbon fiber, but also E-glass, hemp, and Kevlar.
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  405. Upvoted for a hopeful take.
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  406. I did due diligence on both companies. Elio was a fake. The Aptera founders both have a record of building successful companies. Chris Anthony took his last company public as CEO and it is still rated a strong buy.
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  407. Watch for my posts regarding the performance of an early model in Iowa.
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  408. ​ @MiscellaneousMcC  I don't know the answer to the effect running the heat will have on range. There will be need for both keeping the passenger(s) warm, and maintaining the battery pack at a suitable temperature. I think we will find out more about this during the validation phase of the testing of the first production vehicles this coming Spring. My guess is that it will be adequate down to -20 below F, and possibly further, but definitely with a range hit. As far as performance in snow, I currently drive a gen 1 Honda Insight through Iowa winters. It weighs about the same as an Aptera will, and the track of the rear wheels is narrower than the front, so it has to displace more snow. I have found that with proper snow tires it is adequate. Aptera will have superior traction control, with the ability to sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. There will be snow fall that is deeper than Aptera or any other small car can handle, but once the roads are plowed I think it will be better than many, at least in the AWD versions. A prototype has already been tested on a ski slope in Switzerland with the snow above the bottom edge of the wheel pants, and it did fine.
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  409. Aptera has a carbon fiber passenger cage, plus front and rear crumple zones and airbags. It will test very well and the results revealed before they go on sale.
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  410. As an Iowan I am shocked and ashamed.
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  411. No. There will be 7 standard colors with custom available. The second alpha vehicle is white and the third will be silver.
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  412.  @vic321344  So? Aptera has production tooling an order of magnitude less expensive than gigapresses. Aptera has multiple sources for their batteries, including EVE. I have been to the Aptera factory site in Carlsbad, and it never was an "empty hanger". It is now occupied. And Aptera has built more prototypes and is closer to a production one than Tesla is with the Cybertruck. Facts - not spin.
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  413.  @itekani  We are in agreement.
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  414. Do your own research. Chris Anthony took the last company he founded public and is making money for his investors.
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  415. The NACS connector Aptera is using is no longer a "specialized charging port" but the North American standard, thanks to Aptera's efforts. Aptera Corp only started in 2019, so wrong again. It appears you are incapable of understanding simple math with your "3 to 5"months to charge your car statement. The first shipping LE models will be able to charge their batteries from empty to full in about an hour at a Tesla charging station. We will know more exactly once the PI models complete their validation work.
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  416. It passes the Moose Test. It would be pretty hard to do. Even the Robin had to be modified to get it to flip on Top Gear, and this is no Robin.
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  417. There will be crowds of girls waiting for a ride, especially when they experience the acceleration. My wife certainly had a smile on her face after a ride in a prototype.
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  418. Don't forget to also compare the ownership cost over time as you actually use the vehicle.
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  419. It is certainly a niche car, but they are already getting fleet orders. Not just a hobby car....
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  420. The batteries for the 600 and 1000 mile range vehicles are the same as in the present 400 mile range design - just taller form factors. They are in development now, and when they reach the production stage, the battery packs can be built. We will have a better idea of the actual range once the 400 mile production intent vehicles are validated.
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  421. Functional form never goes out of fashion.
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  422. It is a result of the aerodynamic design requirements and the safety function of the doors.
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  423. Where does this come from? Aptera Corp was only founded in 2019, when the design of the vehicle began. Of course, failure is still an option, but at present they have done a better job managing their money and making progress towards production than Tesla did during their startup phase. You are welcome to ask me questions or do your own research.
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  424.  @frenchchriss9880  Aptera is not any normal metal car body The body is a foam filled sandwich with a much higher r value than a normal car, so it heats up at a much slower rate.
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  425. If you add the camping kit, there will be a mattress for the back and enough room to sleep two people in climate controlled comfort. I have ordered this option.
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  426. It is designed to excel on standard automotive crash tests. We will have the ratings later in the year.
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  427. It is stable in 110 mph cross winds.
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  428. I doubt it. I plan to drive mine in all weather in Iowa. I will report on my experience when the time comes. The ABS/traction control can detect wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution for each driven wheel - about every 2.5" of tread travel.
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  429. The first delta (production models) will likely appear in December of this year, with a slow ramp up of production to around 10,000 units per year. Since there are more than 25,000 preorders already in, it will take a while to fill them if you haven't already placed an order.
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  430.  @yourhandlehere1  Anyone who understand the reason for them knows that they are not "silly".
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  431.  @tonyn3227  Tesla started by shipping defective cars and came within an hour of bankruptcy before they finally had a fix for their defective transmissions Aptera is doing validation work before they ship, and will be able to handle repairs under warranty.
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  432. @user-iu2ft6sp6d That is likely to be true at the beginning. But it could change quickly. Aptera has even said it will make CAD files available to companies that wish to make aftermarket parts. I think we will see the largest aftermarket develop since the VW Bug, due to their friendly policy.
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  433. There are pre-orders from Korea, and once the rollout happens, Korea is on their radar.
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  434. Much of the safety concern over 3 wheels came in the wake of Top Gear modifying a Reliant Robin to make it look easy to turn over for comic purposes. The Aptera is a tadpole configuration, has a much lower center of gravity due to the wheel motors and battery pack, and passes the moose test - it is better in this regard than many 4 wheel cars on American roads. The three wheels reduces rolling resistance, allows for a more aerodynamic shape, and reduces weight, cost, and tire costs. For its mission, it is a win all around. It will be publicly crash tested next year to FMVSS Part 200 automotive safety standards by a third party. They wouldn't go to this expense voluntarily if they didn't know it would do well.
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  435. I live in Iowa, and expect it to do well in the Launch Edition form. I will report on my experience.
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  436.  @-V-K-  Lets all hope not. Even if they could somehow make producing hydrogen and using it as efficient as electricity, it will still require far more expensive cars with more parts to use it. It is fundamentally a non starter.
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  437. I agree. I ordered White for the same reason. My first Gen 1 Honda Insight was hit from behind at 60 by a large car that "didn't see me". I wasn't injured and think the Aptera, which weighs about the same, will do even better. The Honda got 4s in the crash tests.
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  438. That information will become more available with the testing of the production intent validation models, and reports from the field from owners of early deliveries. Of course range will be lower. 100 +F days are within the design range, as are - 20F days.
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  439. There are no flat surfaces for the wind to push against. You hardly feel gusts even at speed. Most 3 wheelers aren't designed like this.
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  440.  @markplott4820  It meets all regulations for its class now, and will even be voluntarily tested by a third party to the FMVSS Part 200 crash test standards and the ratings will be published as soon as production intent vehicles are available to test. Where are you getting your bad information?
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  441. Check out Aptera. Their largest number of engineers are developing Solar, and they will be filing for 50 patents or more in this area.
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  442. Do you have a phone charger that can supply 4,000 watt hours per day?
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  443. That wont happen, because the motors are in the wheels. The heat would make it as likely as your muffler getting snowed shut. And in the unlikely event you needed to, the wheel pants snap off in less than a minute. Tesla, Mercedes, and other companies use the same international parts suppliers. Aptera will be registered as a motorcycle or autocycle and will thus not be subject to the mirror rules. It will still be tested to full automotive safety standards.
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  444. Jim, where are you? They have a new 80,000 sq ft factory in Carlsbad, a new beta factory and test center producing parts, and even video of new tooling producing half a fender pant. Both preorders and company valuation are headed up.
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  445.  @BlondieSuperdog  If you think reading a wiki article is doing due diligence, you are in trouble as an investor. While the numbers in the Wiki were true once, Aptera is growing fast and they are now way past that. And I guess Tesla is in even bigger trouble because all mention of a delivery date for the much delayed Cybertruck has been scrubbed from their website. Aptera is operating in the same business climate that Tesla is and shares the same supply chain for some common parts. It is quite clear that you haven't looked up the worth of Aptera shares which are already far beyond penny stock territory. Even at a rapidly increasing valuation, the last offering raised 20 million in a week. This may be a reg A record and shows the market does not agree with you. One measure is to compare where Aptera is at after restarting to the original Tesla in the same time frame. Aptera is moving much faster than most automotive companies, who typically take 5 years to design and deliver a new, less than innovative car model. The Elephant in the room is that we collectively need companies such as Aptera to be successful if we are to start getting a handle on our climate mess. I have spent much of my career in this and I have grandchildren I am not giving up on.
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  446.  @BlondieSuperdog  It is now almost a year after our last discussion here. Aptera has recently released a 6 month SEC update. Although they have greatly increased their expenses they still have about the same 19 million cash on hand. This also doesn't include a 21 million dollar grand that has been awarded by the State of California. Aptera has built a 130,000 square foot solar panel factory that is already in low volume production and they are building out the high capacity line. They also have a separate battery assembly plant in early production. The 80,000 square foot final assembly building is awaiting the Red Viking carts any day now and workers are already training on virtual models of the work stations. Gamma models have been completed and publicly shown, and the delta production intent vehicle is still on track to be finished by the end of the year. The first deltas will be voluntarily crash tested to FMVSS Part 200 standards by a third party, there will be winter weather tests at the Elaphe winter weather test track, and the delivery of the first Paradigm models will start next year. Amazing progress, especially at a time when many dealer showrooms are empty and the Tesla Cybertruck, which started design around the same time is delayed yet again.
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  447. Not this car or company. Aptera Corp. was founded in 2019, and has a completely different corporate structure thn Aptera Inc. and the drive train of the vehicle has nothing in common with what you are referring to.
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  448. Elon has not been much faster in getting vehicles out. And he started shipping defective roadsters.
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  449. Right hand drive is planned.
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  450. It will be for some users, but as you point out, there are many others. Just 1000 Apteras with V2G tech in a city of 1 million would cut the peak energy demand capacity for that city by 30%.
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  451.  @graysonsmith7031  Overall efficiency is greatly influenced by all of these factors. Aptera is really the only company addressing all the factors in a systematic way, and they will end up 3 or 4 times more efficient in miles per watt hour than even the best Tesla. The combination of better motor efficiency, lighter weight, better body thermal insulation, and better aerodynamics all contribute to the performance.
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  452. ​ @graysonsmith7031  No, that is correct. It is definitely a niche market car, for a commuter or young or retired couples. Their next car is likely to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan. However, they will have to give up the saving in rolling resistance and several other efficiency advantages. With tooling costs at least an order of magnitude lower than Teslas, these new vehicles are likely to be very attractively priced. but everyone has to operate with the same physics. I don't think we will see such a striking performance advantage with these models. I am an Aptera volunteer brand ambassador, an early small investor, and an early pre-order holder. When I take delivery of my vehicle I will be posting about whether it lives up to the claims. Both and my wife and I have ridden in an alpha prototype, so we are very optimistic for the production versions. The performance was an absolute blast - unusual for "economy" cars.
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  453. Do you mean intellectual property? You can get a beginning indication by looking at the patent filings. A major one relates to heat dissipation without causing air resistance.
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  454. There are already more than 33,000 pre-orders. Once you understand how much fun they are to drive and how much the owners can save driving them, you will start to understand the reasons.
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  455.  @Scrimm_  at FAR higher cost of ownership and environmental damage.
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  456. I have driven the Elise, and ridden in an Aptera prototype. That is an apt comparison. I think the 0-60 time of the Aptera AWD of around 4.0 seconds is similar to the Elise. They are certainly not what you expect from an "economy car".
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  457.  @damiangreen299  Aptera has been tested stable in 110 mph cross winds- far higher than slab sided SUVs. Roush is working with Aptera on suspension design. The beta models will be far superior to the Alphas, and will be amazing. The current AWD Aptera models do 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds (depending on battery size) The 2 motor models do 0-60 in around 5.5 seconds. Top speed is rpm limited to 110 mph. Lower Cd will give Aptera far more range at speed compared to Tesla.
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  458. I would be careful about planning to pull anything much heavier than a Sunfish, Sail fish, or a couple of kayaks. What do you have?
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  459. In actual fact Apteras have a top speed of 110 miles per hour, limited by the motor controllers. the 1000 mile range in the largest battery model is at EPA highway test conditions which average around 48-50 mph. In San Diego they may well gain 44 miles of range per day. In my home in Iowa, I expect to get an average of around 20 miles per day from solar at these speeds.
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  460.  @RedBatteryHead  I agree with most of what you say here. Few people if any, are going to plan 1000 mile trips and drive under EPA Highway conditions in any case However, it does give a comparison point the that is somewhat standardized. I myself have done 1000 trips in less than 24 hours on a BMW R80, a vehicle that is considerably less comfortable. The claim provides a comparison point for what is possible, for instance, sufficient trip range at speed, even with the heater or A/C on at full blast. That said, I have chosen the 400 mile range model with full solar. Living in small town Iowa, I expect a daily solar gain of around 20 miles - still more than enough for my daily driving needs plus the occasional round trip to Des Moines or Kansas City without ever having to plug in. The performance specs serve a purpose in allowing a buyer to choose a vehicle that will meet their needs. The 250 mile range model will meet the needs of many commuters and sport riders, while being easier on the pocket book, and due to the lighter weight, even more thrilling to drive than the larger battery models.
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  461.  @tims8603  Yes. And is therefore a much simpler and less expensive vehicle to operate and maintain than even the Insight has been for us.
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  462.  @humanresources3545  Aptera is actually going to have Production Intent vehicles undergoing validation testing by Q2. The earliest shipping vehicles are more likely to be the very end of 2024 or early 2025. A $100 refundable deposit (or $70 with a code from an existing deposit holder) can get you a place in line and there is little risk in getting one. I don't recommend investing, though, unless you are committed enough to what they are doing that you can consider it a donation.
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  463. I don't know if there is a break down for 2 seat car sales in the US, but the 13,000 preorders, and counting shows that the demand is enough for the company to be profitable. There is also no shortage of investors with over 10,000 so far with no advertising campaign for the last investment round which was shut down in a week. The demand is there.
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  464. The gamma already had one crushed by a BMW driver backing into it. It was repaired in about a week. The production ones can be replaced in minutes by new, as well as repaired.
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  465. No. In California and most states the Aptera will be classed as a motorcycle or autocycle and can use cameras and screens in place of mirrors.
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  466.  @jaimefish173  for all practical purposes it is. It will meet all automotive safety standards and be tested to them. For regulatory purposes it will be registered as a motorcycle or autocycle.
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  467. The Maxeon cells used in the Aptera panels are sold in fixed panels by Maxeon directly with a 40 year warranty and a stated efficiency of 88% of the original over that time frame. Advances in Solar tech probably mean that the solar panels on most Apterae will be replaced long before that, due to lower cost and increased efficiency.
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  468. Both my wife and I have ridden in an Aptera prototype. It is no Gremlin (which my brother owned). Although the primary design goal is efficiency, the AWD acceleration is better than at least the first 200 Tesla Roadsters made. It is a blast! Production is still around a year away.
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  469. Aptera's shape is not some fickle temporary fashion statement that will go out of style. It is pure form follows function. It has existed in its basic form since an A. Morelli shape published in 1982, and built by several organizations, including MIT.
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  470. Aptera starts at $25,900 before incentives. The key take away is that if there is no sunlight, you can plug it into a standard 110 volt outlet and still get 13 miles of range per hour of plug time - it gains range far faster than a Tesla, no matter what the charging source.
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  471. I completely agree, and have ordered the 400 mile range model for use in Iowa. I am expecting to do road trips, and the battery still will permit occasional round trips to Des Moines and Kansas City on solar alone. The one factor not mentioned here is that the larger battery sizes would be a bargain if they could also be used for home power or grid support through V2G - this remains to be seen.
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  472. Aptera used the EPA highway cycle to compute their ranges, which has spikes up to 67, but only averages around 49-50 mph. For cross country Interstate driving in the West, and especially in winter, I don't expect to get the stated ranges and the speeds I will be driving at. I still think that with 50 kW DC chargers only requiring stops of an hour, range will be more than sufficient for our needs with the 40 kWh pack.
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  473. Aptera is designed to operate in temperature conditions from -20 to 125 F. It has windshield wipers, AC and heating. Validation testing to insure this kind of performance is going on now with the betas. It also has perhaps the best traction control and ABS yet fitted to any vehicle - each driven wheel can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution - or about every 2.5" of tread travel. I expect to be able to do all season travel with mine in Iowa. I may add studded snow tires for the winter season, which are legal here.
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  474. The drag of the alternators saps energy in the form of heat and you don't get as much electricity back to convert to motion to overcome the added drag it produces.
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  475. Compared to what? Don't forget to compare the total cost of ownership and use.
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  476. Just a correction - no version of Aptera has ever gone bankrupt. The first Aptera, Inc. company was a partnership that kicked out the founders in 2009, changed their plans, and then found they could no longer raise money for their new direction. They then liquidated the company in 2011. there was never any bankruptcy, and the vendors were paid and customer deposits returned.
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  477.  @eslachance  Yes. This is mis-information that has been repeated over and over.. The former Aptera CEO who was appointed by Idealab even claimed to be the founder at one point. Steve and Chris have just decided not to confront the false narratives out there directly, but both have been busy starting and running new successful companies. Chris Anthony even co-founded and as CEO took a lithium battery company public, which he left to get Aptera Corp going again.
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  478. No. The differences will not be significant. Part of this is because most of the heat transfer will be through convection rather than radiation. I understand these things because I spent many years in thermal design. I designed and helped built the samples freezer that flies in the ISS, for instance.
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  479. Why? It would increase the cost and lower the efficiency (increased rolling resistance) for little advantage. Future higher load 4 wheel vehicles for different applications are planned.
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  480.  @waynefergusson9987  I have worked in manufacturing quality control for much of my life. An increase in weight and parts count increases cost. The extra wheel also adds more rolling resistance - a considerable contribution to in-efficiency. Every engineering choice involves tradeoffs. Aptera wants to eventually produce vehicles for more passengers and for cargo, for which a four wheel design increases cargo capacity.
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  481.  @Bill-Rink  The three wheeled Aptera will be crash tested to the same FMVSS Part 200 crash test standards as cars are - not because they have to by law, but because it is designed to be safe. You are incorrect on your assumption.
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  482. He has an investment in Aptera Motors now and will be slow to cover companies he is invested in.
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  483. Of course it can do both Mulholland and Pikes Peak without issue. It is light weight and has plenty of torque. Both my wife and I have ridden in an early Aptera prototype and the performance is eye opening. The AWD model can do better than the original Tesla Roadster in acceleration and not risk breaking a transmission, which happened so often that on demo days in 2008, Tesla needed a stack of spare transmissions and a crew to change them out while they were giving demo rides.
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  484. This vehicle will be far less affected by wind, and have both a lower center of gravity and much better traction control. We will have results next season from the Elaphe cold weather test track.
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  485.  @brewcityb  There is an off road kit that will raise the entire car. There is unlikely to be snow build up in the wheel pants, because of the heat from the motors. If it should occur, they can be clipped off in less than a minute. There is 25 cu ft of storage space in back, and the seating is comfortable for people up to 6'8". I hope you have a chance to see one when there are more on the road. I think you will be surprised.
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  486. @johnbauby6612, theionly thing "total FRAUD" here is your post. First of all, you don't seem to know how much electricity it takes to toast bread. It is completely unrelated to what it takes to make an Aptera run. The correct answer is that the 700 watt peak output of the solar panels could probably do the job, but it would likely take a while. That isn't their purpose. Aptera only uses around 00 watt-hours per mile to run at EPA speeds. Secondly, neither Aptera founders have ever been involved in any scam. Chris Anthony took his last company public as CEO and his investors are thrilled with its performance. Every analyst rating following it rates it a buy. Steve Fambro has run several successful companies and holds patents in many fields. The first Aptera, Inc. never went bankrupt. It was a partnership with Idealab that got rid of the Aptera founders in 2009, and then was liquidated by the Detroit CEO because he changed the plans to one that investors wouldn't fund. All the pre-order deposits were returned. I am publicly calling you a liar, which anyone can confirm by doing a bit of research.
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  487. Aptera was designed to meet US laws.
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  488. Aptera will only require under 2 hours of labor to assemble per vehicle and the present factory should be able to produce at least 40 per hour when they get ramped up. Additional factories are likely to be built in other parts of the country and abroad. Aptera has revealed an even larger factory in production now for solar panels, and a separate facility producing battery modules that is also in initial production. How can it be 17 years when the company and design only began in 2019?
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  489. Even In Iowa, where I live, the $900 cost of full solar is likely to to pay for itself in energy savings over their life, and expand the utility of the vehicle for camping trips.
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  490. They have been designed to be in the US, and they are working with European homologation experts. I will personally report on the winter handling when I drive my early model Aptera in Iowa.
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  491. The body of the production vehicles is made of different materials and processes with much tighter tolerances, and will have sound deadening.
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  492. This is what pure form follows function design looks like.
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  493. Art, you have gotten some incorrect information. Aptera will be registered as an autocycle and is not required to be crash tested. In fact, many actual cars for sale in the US have not been crash tested either. Aptera has been designed from the beginning to pass such tests, and will be voluntarily tested by an independent third party to the FMVSS Part 200 standards and the ratings published. We know from virtual testing that it will score very well.
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  494. Aptera will be voluntarily crash tested to FMVSS part 200 crash test standards and the ratings published shortly before shipping begins. Prices start at $25,900 for a 250 mile EPA highway range battery . The performance of even the 2WD version is exciting. I had a ride in an alpha prototype.
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  495. Not only does Aptera have batteries in the car- with V2G, they will be able to feed power back into the house, too when the grid is under stress.
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  496. Aptera will supply production drawings to anyone wanting to produce an aftermarket wheel. The larger size of the design gives larger crumple zones and helps increase the crash safety.
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  497. I live in rural Iowa and hope to find out. I will post video.
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  498. I have done more than watch videos. I have spoken with their suppliers, visited the factory and ridden in a prototype. They are as real as any early stage company is.
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  499. Poor eye.
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  500. It has all these features. We will have the crash ratings later in the year.
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  501. Aptera has an a/c compressor and innovative condensers and evaporators, and other ways to transfer heat.
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  502. We now have more details. When the vehicle is moving at under 15 mph or charging, fans will draw air from under the front cowel, blow it over the AC evaporator to cool, over the inside of the bottom cooling pan that also cools the antifreeze carrying heat from the motors and battery pack, through the AC condenser, and then out exhaust ports in the tail of the vehicle.
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  503. Electrical power costs more there, too. It will still provide a valuable assist.
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  504. Although not required by the class, it has been designed from the beginning to do well on the FMVSS Part 200 crash tests. They will be voluntarily submitted for testing by a third party and the ratings will be published as soon as production intent models are available to test
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  505. Plenty of torque but climbing a 7% grade at 65 mph on a hot day might cause a power reduction after ten minutes or so. Further tests will be done on the betas in extreme conditions to discover the limits.
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  506. The underside of the car acts as the condenser for the A/C system. It works because it has a large amount of surface area to get rid of the heat. Even less conductive materials can perform better than copper if there is enough surface area.
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  507.  @excelrobot  I don't think the Aptera founders are too interested in losing control of their company after what happened the first time.
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  508. Aptera has laid out their general production plans going forward in their SEC reports. The second Aptera vehicle is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel sedan. We are unlikely to hear more details until they announce plans to go public. At the moment they are laser focused on the first vehicle.
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  509.  @MarlinMay  I plan to drive one of the early models in Iowa. I have already checked on the availability of studded snow tires. Aptera uses a standard size with snow tires available from several sources. With the superior traction control, I expect the 3 wheel drive model to be excellent.
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  510. Good question, Aptera has been tested stable in 110 mph side winds. At forward speeds there is 25 lbs of downforce at rear of the vehicle at 65 mph, and this increases rapidly from there with increasing speed. It is far more stable in wind than the average slab sided SUV.
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  511. ​ @OCofthe3 :"The resulting evolution of the body shape is crisper, with a sleek, stark interior that carries over nothing from the planned Aptera 2e of 2009." From an early ieee Spectrum article on the new company. There is much more discussion of this in Aptera videos and other places.
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  512. The second vehicle planned is a 4 wheel, 5 seat sedan.
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  513. Yes, it is in Carlsbad California. I visited last November and had a ride in a prototype.
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  514. The body shape of the Aptera is not a fashion statement but comes from physics. It was introduced by A. Morelli in 1982 when he was studying the most efficient shapes for reducing air resistance. Fashion changes but physics doesn't.
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  515. I have thousands of comfortable Interstate miles in a Gen 1 Honda Insight. Aptera is likely to be better in almost every respect. The Smart car is a city car. Aptera is not.
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  516.  @Vintage_Dave_T  You are right about this. The first Aptera vehicle is much better compared to the Gen 1 Honda, which was always a niche vehicle. Just as Tesla started with the Roadster, a relatively expensive niche vehicle, the 2 place Aptera will provide the same role for Aptera. Aptera's second vehicle is likely to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
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  517. The traction control is exceptional. I will report on my experience with one in Iowa.
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  518.  @tims8603  Yes! Each wheel can sense tire spin and adjust torque about every 2.5" of tread travel.
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  519. Aptera's next vehicle is likely to be a 5 seat sedan. This first vehicle has very quick acting traction control that can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. I expect the AWD models to be good in snow with studded snow tires. I will be reporting on my experience driving in Iowa.
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  520. The full solar version will have the rear hatch window covered.
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  521. Not vents but micro channels. Some of this is covered by IP and possibly NDAs. I think we will soon know a lot more.
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  522. Press is already getting opportunities for test drives or rides with the prototype. I am not even press and had a ride in the Luna prototype, which was far more thrilling in the twisties than I had guessed it would be. When I pick mine up I will offer rides to as many people as I can.
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  523. It will be crash tested by a 3rd party to FMVSS Part 200 standards and the ratings will be public.
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  524. It is extraordinarily safe. When production ready models are ready, they will be crash tested and rated to automotive standards.
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  525. Regulation or not this car will have front and side air bags and be test to regular automotive crash test standards. We will have the ratings later in the year.
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  526.  @GregDinAZ  All the best. I spent 16 years in Mesa, so I have pretty good idea of your environment. I just moved to Iowa, where we have real winters.
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  527.  @thegametable1243  Not the same company. The original Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. Idealab decided that they wanted a CEO from Detroit. That CEO organized a board coup and kicked the founders out in 2009. He had a different vision for a 4 wheeled car and was unable to raise further funds for it. He liquidated the company in 2011 and returned customer deposits and paid off the vendors. Both founders founded new, successful companies when they left. Chris Anthony co-founded a lithium battery company and took it public as CEO. In 2019, he was offered a chance to buy the original IP from the widow of the man who had purchased it in the auction. He regathered the original key people, and started a new company, Aptera Corp, with a completely new design.
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  528. I don't think so. There are "backpack" enclosed storage areas behind the seats and a cargo net between the back and the passenger area. Black colors are more efficient at radiating heat, as well as absorbing it. I doubt if the color will make much difference here. Surface area is a much larger factor than color or even thermal conductivity. Addition of mirrors will have a negative affect, but how much will still depend on size and placement.
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  529. Not excluded because of the federal motorcycle classification.
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  530. I plan to use mine year round in rural Iowa, including gravel roads. I will report on my experience next year.
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  531. The Maxeon cells will be covered with thin glass, similar to the protective cover on cell phone screens.
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  532. It wasn't a scam the first time and Chris Anthony's last company went public and is making investors money.
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  533. Yes, two people if they are under 7 ft tall.
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  534.  @anthonyobrien3685  To understand what this means, one needs to understand the amount of energy used to create that much fuel. It takes about about 48 kWh of electricity to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. To produce a gallon of gasoline takes around 4.8kWh. This is a difference that hydrogen can't overcome, especially when you throw in fuel cell complexity, cost, and efficiency compared to charging batteries and using the power in electric motors.
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  535. This is not Kickstarter. You are investing in SAFE's. That said it is still risky. Chris has run several companies- one publicly traded with a successful IPO.
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  536. They also have institutional investmentors.
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  537.  @practicalcivilguy6604  Look at the investor plan on Wefunder/Aptera. You can find good articles on the history of Aptera and both founders on Reddit at r/ApteraMotors. You might also want to look at the record of another public company founded by Chris Anthony - FLUX Power. Unlike many automotive startups, the Aptera founders have a strong record as company founders.
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  538. Perhaps because the vehicle you are talking about was a different company and a different vehicle. The same founders were involved, but their partners kicked them out of that company in 2009, and the CEO they hired from Detroit could raise funding for his alternative plans. They held an orderly liquidation sale in 2011. This company, Aptera Corp, started with a completely new EV design in 2019.
    2
  539. Yes. My wife and I were able to lie next to each other in the bed of a prototype and the production intent vehicles are even larger. We plan to take it camping.
    2
  540. Aptera is a right to repair company. I already have mechanics who want to work on it here in rural Iowa. Real enthusiast shops can hardly wait.
    2
  541. It is a form follows function - not a fashion design that goes out of date.
    2
  542. I will report on the performance of my Atera in Iowa.
    2
  543. Perhaps the alphas, but this has been fixed by the Roush Performance redesign that is seen in the betas.
    2
  544. With an EPA range of up to 1,000 miles, I would say you can go on a "very long drive" - certainly longer than the average ICE vehicle.
    2
  545.  @barnabasseadog7660  I have around 1/2 a million safe miles on two wheels. Aptera will be FAR safer.
    2
  546.  @Okurkaarrgghh  The $25,900 estimated price is for a 250 mile range version. The 400 mile range AWD model is also an estimated price. The prices will be firmly established about the time they ship. Since those estimates, inflation has been high, but battery prices and the body production method costs have gone down.
    2
  547.  @rammagaming  That was a joint venture with Idealab, and they were voted off the board in a surprise vote in 2009. Aptera Inc. failed because they ignored Steve and Chris's advice. Aptera Corp is set up so that they won't lose control again.
    2
  548.  @MarcoElkes  No version of Aptera has EVER gone bankrupt. Aptera Inc. voluntarily liquidated after they had kicked Steve and Chris out in 2009 in favor of a different project they couldn't raise funding for. Idealab returned all the deposits and paid off the vendors. The new Aptera Corp. is producing an entirely new vehicle to a new design started in 2019, and redesigned in 2022 when demand grew into the tens of thousands.
    2
  549.  @darrenosborne8252  I have ridden in a prototype on the road. Unlike Elio, Aptera has tooling, production intent parts, and IP in the form of patents granted. Elio had none of that.
    2
  550. It is certainly possible to charge while parked if you can spare the weight and volume of the wind charger.
    2
  551. Delta was not the expected production model. Aptera did not lie, they changed the design with changing circumstances. They originally thought that the demand would be for around 4,000 vehicles - easily achievable with vacuum resin infusion. It became clear that that couldn't scale fast enough to deliver 40,000 plus orders in a timely fashion. The switch to using CPC and carbon fiber and SMC stamped bodies took a while before the agreements were in place, and the new construction had to be designed. Tesla was shipping "production vehicles" before they even had transmissions that could hold up to the torque of the motors, while Aptera has had better financial management and functional prototypes back in 2021. I know, because my wife and I rode in one. We are stoked that the vehicle that will be delivered will be far higher quality than what the original offering was indicating.
    2
  552.  @dr.jerrywolfe1289  Pre-order 12/5/2010 and also a Wefunder investor. My main thing is that the world needs this to happen.
    2
  553. Of course! Thanks for keeping me honest!
    2
  554. That would be a sort of "perpetual motion machine" that couldn't recover the friction losses. In fact, some energy is recovered when going down hill or braking through regenerative braking systems.
    2
  555. The car doors open up and out and you require little additional room, compared to a standard door design, even if your wheel pants are up against a wall. It will be less of an issue than with a regular car in your particular scenario. However, I agree that the width is a problem in tight city centers. The design choice was made for American roads and allow the Cd to be reduced by over 10%. City cars do not need the energy efficiency at speed that Aptera provides. It is definitely a niche car, but it fills that niche extraordinarily well.
    2
  556. I live in Iowa, and will be taking delivery of an early model. It will still meet my average driving needs through solar alone. And if I plug it in, 62% of our grid power comes from wind.
    2
  557. How to tell people you haven't looked into the details....
    2
  558.  @ezymarkz  Pretty close. Aptera panels are 22-23% efficient and have about 750 peak watts, or a total of about 4 to 4.4 kWh on a good day.
    2
  559.  @aussieideasman8498  You mean like your "perpetual motion machine"? There is nothing like actual physics for understand performance potential.
    2
  560.  @DQ-su6qf  Splitting the rear wheel would increase the rolling resistance of the vehicle - counter productive.
    2
  561. The current Aptera vehicle if not designed or intended to be a mass market vehicle. It is focused in an the needs of a very specific small group of people with a clarity of purpose seldom seen in non race machines. The business purpose of this two seat Aptera is similar to what the Tesla Roadster was - to give the company the experience and resources to address larger markets. The second Aptera vehicle will probably be a 4 wheel 5 passenger sedan. I believe the big contribution of this follow on vehicle will not be aerodynamics, because everyone is dealing with the same physics and is attracted to these larger potential markets. Aptera's big contribution will be having demonstrated the ability to tool up and produce new designs for far lower capital startup costs than companies such as Tesla and the Big Three require. There will be no need for gigapresses and massive robots, but an ability to provide good, well paying local jobs. Of course they well again offer all of the goodness that wheel motors bring to the table.
    2
  562. Tesla form factor plugs are the NACS standard - SAE J3400, Look it up.
    2
  563. Everyone is allowed to work on it. Aptera is a Right to Repair company. Even in rural Iowa, my shops can't wait.
    2
  564. Aptera Inc. has done a much better job of funding their startup than Tesla did when they began.
    2
  565.  @vic321344  Back in the day they completely ran out of money, laid off all their motor engineers, and were only saved at the last minute by a $50 million dollar loan from Daimler. Don't try to re-write history.
    2
  566.  @vic321344  You are correct about the time line. That first roadster was shipped in February and by December 24th of that year they were completely out of money. For years they were lying about having a working Roadster. They were giving rides to potential customers and investors, and breaking the transmissions with every ride. On demo days, they would wheel the broken vehicle into a garage and close the door to do a quick transmission change while they gave the next ride, all the while claiming that they had working vehicles. They were located across the street in Union City from where I worked and when they laid off their motor engineers we hired them to work on a marine engine project. I saw those early days first hand. That first vehicle shipped 6 years after Tesla started working on it - a far cry from the time Aptera has had for a far more complex task. Credit to Tesla for paving the way.
    2
  567.  @jaypaans3471  Check out Aptera at a fraction of the cost.
    2
  568. Just considering the amount of time the present Aptera has been in development, both the vehicle and the company are far ahead of where Tesla was in the same time frame. Understand the history of both companies.
    2
  569.  @mistersoeciale2817  That is your right. In the mid 2000s, Tesla had to lay off all their motor engineers, and the company I worked for hired them. Their start was much more troubled than Aptera's has been. Tesla was lying to their investors and potential customers about the state of their development in converting the Lotus at the time. It was the $150 million government loan that saved them. I do my due diligence and have found both Aptera and Elaphe to be very approachable and able to answer hard questions, unlike Tesla.
    2
  570. To me, the 1000 mile range version is overkill for most potential customers. Even though I plan some long road trips with my wife, the 400 mile range version will more than meet our needs (even considering that at common highway speeds the actual range will be significantly less than the EPA highway rating)
    2
  571.  @scottmcshannon6821  Perhaps you should say CAN plug it in. Where I live in Iowa, I will probably only get about 20 miles of range per day, but in a small town that will be more than enough. I will have enough power from solar to do occasional round trips to Des Moines and Kansas City without plugging in. It will only be on long road trips where this will be necessary. As always YMMV.
    2
  572.  @toddmarshall416  This has already changed in Europe and many other countries. Many US manufacturers see the same advantages that Aptera does. I think you will be surprised.
    2
  573.  @scottmcshannon6821  What does the vehicle cost that you haul groceries in now? The Aptera performance likely beats what ever it is, while costing less to operate.
    2
  574. We only have estimates at this point, but with an excellent BMS system, it would not be surprising if the 2170 batteries Aptera is using will be good for 500,000 miles of use in the vehicle, and then have an extended life in building power backup.
    2
  575. Someone hasn't done their research on the different models being developed.
    2
  576. They are going to have an off road version with different wheel pants.
    2
  577. Aptera is designed with front and rear crumple zones, an F1 style passenger safety cage made from Kevlar and carbon fiber surrounding the occupants, and seat belts and air bags. It will be voluntarily submitted to 3rd party crash testing and the ratings published before shipping begins. They have been constantly doing finite element analysis during the design phase and already know the crash performance will be truly excellent.
    2
  578. At $25,900 for the base model, and a likely $7500 government rebate (yet to be determined) It is far cheaper than the average EV, and the running costs are significantly lower, as well, especially with the $900 full solar upgrade.
    2
  579. True - but with far fewer resources than Elon has - and they have done a far better job of managing their financial resources than Elon did at the same relative point in time when developing the Roadster- as Elon himself has admitted.
    2
  580. You don't understand what Aptera has done. The body is SMC and molded carbon fiber - not the woven CF you may be thinking of. Aptera will be publicly crash tested by a third party to FMVSS Part 200 automotive standards and the results published. It is quite likely that you will be very surprised.
    2
  581.  @CharlesAnsman  Aptera will be tested by a third party to FMVSS Part 200 standards, and the results will be made public. There are many new vehicles on US roads that have no public crash test ratings at all.
    2
  582.  @loodog555  I live in Iowa, and with small town life, my daily driving needs are also low. I should be able to get my full requirements from solar, including the occasional round trip to Des Moines or Kansas City. And I will probably get an average of 20 miles or less per day due to living so much further North and more cloudy weather. Full solar is still a no- brainer for me. I will only need to plug in on long trips.
    2
  583.  @loodog555  I don't think this is accurate. Even here in Iowa where my solar insolation is about 1/2 what it is in San Diego, the full solar is likely to meet my daily driving needs plus the occasional trip to Des Moines or Kansas City.
    2
  584.  @markplott4820  We all notice that little of this relates to Aptera or your claim that Aptera is a fraud. Your misdirection is obvious.
    2
  585.  @markplott4820  FUD. The patent office thinks they do. Your second statement is completely meaningless. Why do you keep posting nonsense?
    2
  586.  @markplott4820  NOONE does this with an alpha prototype. They are obviously designed and will be tested to a far higher standard than any other 3 wheeler. Major investors, such as the Managing General Partner of Impala Ventures, a billion dollar plus firm consider it proven to their satisfaction and has joined the Aptera board. Again, I ask you, why the FUD?
    2
  587.  @markplott4820  It appears that you have been paying little attention. Aptera certainly has seat belts, air bags, significant engineered front and rear crumple zones, and an F1 style passenger safety cage. When the FMVSS section 200 crash test ratings become available, there could well be some surprises in store for you, but not to anyone actually following the engineering. You start with false premises and you get false conclusions.
    2
  588.  @markplott4820  Lol! More evidence of your complete disconnect from reality. One would think that someone so committed to posts regarding something he clearly knows nothing about would have done it least a little research. Aptera has everything you just claimed it lacks. In fact, the traction control and ABS are superior to anything else on the road. It can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution - or about 2.5 inches of tread travel. Nothing else on the road comes close to matching it.
    2
  589. Of course there is information. The full Aptera solar panels will produce about 700 watts peak and around 4200 watt hours in a Southern California location. This exceeds the average commuter's daily commuting needs. In Iowa, where I live, I will probably only get about 1/2 the power, but in my rural town I don't have the same driving needs, so I will likely still be covered for most needs. If not, I can gain 130 miles of range overnight by plugging in, and 62% of that power comes from wind.
    2
  590. Hard to find when you live in rural Iowa like we do.
    2
  591. At altitude it will be even more efficient.
    2
  592. I plan to own an early model in Iowa. I will report on my experience in snow.
    2
  593. Much of this has already been covered. Several independent reviewers have spoken of the ride quality. I would describe the early prototype I rode in as "sports car like" but the suspension has been much refined since then. It passes the moose test, so it is in the upper range of vehicles for sale in the US for cornering ability. The regen has not yet been demonstrated in the prototypes. This will be revealed during the validation testing of the PI models.
    2
  594.  @ericmcdowell5762  Perhaps you have overlooked that the first shipping model will have 400 mile range at EPA highway speeds, and can be recharged at practically any charging source from a 115 VAC outlet at 13 mph of plug time to a Tesla Supercharger at up to 500 miles of range gain per hour of plug time.
    2
  595. I have plenty of experience riding motorcycles in LA and other places under the same traffic conditions. I am not worried about Aptera, even in the event of a crash.
    2
  596. 10,000 per year by the end of 2022 was the plan.
    2
  597.  @MikiMuzsi  Sure! I am in the Aptera Ambassador program, which means I have periodic Zoom calls with the founders and get to ask questions. I think the primary place I got this was from the Aptera's investor's guide that laid out their plans, on Wefunder. Of course, like everthing, Covid has pushed back the schedule some. A lot of information is on Reddit at r/ApteraMotors
    2
  598.  @MikiMuzsi  Possibility! There is both a recording and written answers from one of the zoom calls on Reddit at r/Apteramotors. Also, Chris Anthony is very responsive answering questions on Wefunder/Apteramotors. Ask there and I bet you get an answer.
    2
  599. With 35.5 cu ft of storage and the ability to sleep a couple on a camping trip, there is lots of utility for the class.
    2
  600. Airbags have been planned from the beginning, probably in the seat belts.
    2
  601. They will be conducted by a third party and the results made public once the test vehicles can be completed and the funding to do so is in place - likely later this year.
    2
  602.  @charlesrothauser1328  Aptera will be providing open source service documents with QR code access for much of it. My local independent mechanic can't wait to get a shot at mine.
    2
  603. The second planned Aptera is a 4 wheel 5 passenger sedan. Stay tuned.
    2
  604. I had a ride in a prototype before the suspension was completed by Roush Performance. Even then it did well over speed bumps. I will report on my experience in Iowa on gravel roads.
    2
  605. Aptera has about 35 sq. ft of solar panels, or a peak 750 watts. This is enough for about 4.4 kWh in the Southwest.
    2
  606. My wife and I thought the same thing until we rode in a prototype. We are keeping an open mind because the site lines for the production models will be different, but we are far less worried than before we experienced a version in person.
    2
  607. I took a close look at the Elio back in the day, and knew the motor they announced was impossible at the price and different from what their "prototypes" were running on. The Aptera story has been hugely different all along. Aptera has built alliances with major automotive suppliers
    2
  608. There are at least three companies that are being considered as suppliers. The boards will plug into existing cars with a simple plug in and work from cameras. The software will also be capable of OTA updates, so capabilities will improve. The initial features will be level two, including lane keeping, intelligent cruise control and emergency braking. Full details will come once the vendor is announced.
    2
  609.  @lanaingram3732  Sorry about the jargon. It means over the air updates, so that improvements can automatically be delivered to the cars remotely. Unlike Tesla, the control of the update schedule remains with the buyer. We will likely know more when we know if they will use Tesla, CommaAi, or someone else. Discussions are ongoing.
    2
  610.  @lanaingram3732  Lana, that is actually a great question and I don't know the answer to it. There is some solar even in the base models so it is unlikely that you could run the batteries all the way down to the point where things like door latches wouldn't work. I think that might be a good question to ask Chris Anthony on the Wefunder/Aptera site where he answers direct questions almost every day. If I hear anything, I will get back to you here.
    2
  611.  @JamaicanMeCrazy  the battery in gamma is around 40 kWh.
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  612. The operating cost makes it far less expensive to own than anything comparable at the moment. You are ignoring this difference. It is not just the initial purchase price.
    1
  613. Yes. Perhaps 4.
    1
  614. I will make that trip to visit my daughter in Bellingham, WA before I head back to Iowa.
    1
  615. No, they have to have a fob for it to recognize you.
    1
  616.  @aussieideasman8498  When I am driving mine what will that prove?
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  617. There is almost 4 ft between each front wheel and the center. They are easy to straddle.
    1
  618. With 25 cu ft plus of storage, it will be our warehouse trip hauler as well as daily driver and vacation cross country cruiser. Start looking for reports when production begins.
    1
  619. Aptera will have air bags and be tested to the same crash test standards as regular cars.
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  620. My wife and I both plan to!
    1
  621. Yes.
    1
  622. 4 wheels increases weight, rolling resistance, and cost. They will make a 4 wheel 5 passenger sedan, eventually though.
    1
  623.  @zachmoyer1849  Yes. It is in their SEC reports. They eventually want to have a full line of vehicles, including a semi tractor, which is obviously a long way off. I have personally had a long and varied career, that has included traveling the world addressing environmental issues, running a quality and R&D lab, and working as a supplier to most of the major and startup car companies, going back to the Saturn, and including many of the early EV startups. This has included a deep dive into thermal issues, including work for NASA. I have seldom, if ever, seen a company that "gets it" to the extent Aptera does, or a more passionate management team.
    1
  624. Which is it? High or low? He is talking about a 15 amp circuit, and many people have 20 amp circuits in their garage. The 240V installation costs are sadly typical for California.
    1
  625. It has 32 ft of storage space and enough room for 2 people to sleep in the back for camping. It is both a practical commuter and a weekend adventure vehicle - exactly what many couples want, and it fills that dual role at a much lower out of pocket cost.
    1
  626.  @Foersom_  32 cu ft., or around 90% of a cubic meter. Aptera will fit nicely into a US compact parking space with room to open the doors. You are correct that it is not a 4 seater. Neither was Tesla's first car.
    1
  627.  @Foersom_  32 cu ft, or if you prefer about 90% of a cubic meter. Aptera will fit in a US compact parking space with room to open the doors. It has better 0-60 times than Tesla's first shipoing 2 seat sports car at about 1/3rd the price, and a far larger demonstrated market. through paid pre-orders.
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  628. I was interested in Elio, too, but It didn't take much due diligence to discover that they were making false claims. They also never promised that the deposits would be returned. Aptera Inc. returned their deposits when they were liquidated in 2011 . The current Aptera Corp holds the $100 (or $70) in escrow, and deposits can be requested back at any time and for any reason, and some have been returned.
    1
  629.  @Crazy_Dave  I presently drive a Gen 1 Honda Insight. The rear wheels are narrower than the front track and it is still not terrible. Unlike most cars, the AWD Aptera models can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tire travel. With decent snow tires I think it will do very well. The gamma prototype has already been driven on a ski slope in Switzerland with snow above the bottom of the wheel pants. I think it will do well and will report on my experience with an early model in Iowa.
    1
  630. There are jack lift points. There will be future videos making this clear. The rear area has cargo tie down points.
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  631. Aptera Corp only started in 2019 with this new design. The final design will be revealed within days. Investment is the gating issue for production to start. If sufficient resources come, I think the first of us will be taking delivery around this time next year. The good news is that with C.P.C. Group producing bodies, they will be able to scale production to meet demand much more quickly than with the previous vacuum resin infusion plan, and with far higher parts precision. One should be cautious, but I know of no other company that has started as strongly, including Tesla.
    1
  632. The car has been designed to full automotive crash safety standards and the ratings will be announced after pre-production vehicles are tested. The car has been tested to be stable in 110 mph cross winds, much higher than almost any slab sided SUV.
    1
  633. Most people drive less than that on a daily basis. I will get far less solar miles, and it will still be good where I live in Iowa.
    1
  634.  @firemanflorence  The Solar is not extra for the launch edition, and may end up being included in all of the models.
    1
  635. Where are you going to find -50 degree weather? People tend not to live in those places. Aptera is designed to operate over a range of around -28 to 52C. They are not using cadmium batteries - those may have been found in cars from 20 years ago, but no longer.
    1
  636.  @theblunden2  You are incorrect. Both my wife and I have ridden in Aptera - with the Tesla port. They were the first company to get Tesla to allow others to use it, and started a petition that was signed by 40,000 others that got the other manufacturers to notice.
    1
  637.  @theblunden2  It means a great deal to anyone doing due diligence. At the same relative point in 2008, Tesla was already shipping cars - defective ones with transmissions that broke. Aptera has more functional prototypes than Tesla's shipping cars. Aptera is rather farther ahead than Tesla was, both financially and in terms of design maturity. If they keep that advantage soon people will care, Once people actually understand what their wasteful transportation system is doing to their weather everyone will care about sporty vehicles that use 2.5 times less power for performance of 0-60 in 4 seconds.
    1
  638. Aptera does not negate that preference.
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  639. It has been tested stable in 110 mph side winds - far stronger than a typical slab sided SUV.
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  640. My wife and I can say from the experience of riding in an alpha prototype that it is thrilling!
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  641. Mine will be white with black accents from the solar panels.
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  642. This comment perhaps misunderstands the use case for this vehicle. It is actually critical to the performance.
    1
  643. Look into it a bit more deeply. There is no design issue. The antifreeze lines were not even hooked up.
    1
  644. More than 6,000 people now disagree with you enough to have placed preorders.
    1
  645.  @seapirate65  We are still a ways from knowing the actual final selling cost of the 250 mile range basic model, and it is probably still at least a couple years off from production. You have time to continue to save, and will have third party reports of the actual performance by that time to help in your decision making.
    1
  646.  @aussieideasman8498  And look at the tape measurements that Steve from Aptera Owner's Club made. What is your point?
    1
  647. I am in Southern Iowa, but we still get below zero days. The frequency is decreasing due to global warming. I do remember one year when our biggest snow storm of the year - over 6"- came on a May 1st. A couple of days later it was all gone. The saying here is "if you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes.
    1
  648. Unlike others, it is designed to pass automotive safety standards, with crush zones, air bags, and a passenger safety cell - F1 style.
    1
  649. The Aptera uses a foam filled body shell that has a far higher r value than a typical metal bodied car. The AC will not be stressed. They are designing it for up to 125 F ambient conditions.
    1
  650. The biggest difference will probably be a remarkably quiet cabin.
    1
  651. That is my hope!
    1
  652. It is in my future.
    1
  653. I have survived around 1/2 a million miles on 2 wheels. Pay attention to your driving. Aptera will be FAR safer than those bikes were.
    1
  654.  @kieranhamaguchi68  It is not just surface area. The energy use of the vehicle also plays a big role. Apteras' panels are a bit above average at around 22-23 % efficient. They are also light weight. It depends on your use case, but taking the panels along with the vehicle will let me camp in places that I wouldn't otherwise have the range to reach, and with climate controlled comfort when we get to our location. Of course the great efficiency of the vehicle itself compared to other BEVs is a major factor as well.
    1
  655. A good, but far more costly option.
    1
  656. It will be insured as a motorcycle.
    1
  657. Perhaps if you live in Thailand...
    1
  658. Now in October '22 there are over 33,000 pre-orders.
    1
  659.  @vic321344  As if the load rating is not in addition to the battery pack....
    1
  660.  @vic321344  This is one of your more idiotic claims.
    1
  661. Aptera will be crash tested to automotive standards before it ships and will rate well. My Gen 1 Honda Insight protected me in a 60 mph collision from behind by a large car, and I was uninjured. Aptera will be considerably safer.
    1
  662.  @xploration1437  Both my wife and I rode over steep speed bumps with no issues. The wheel pants rise with the wheels, unlike the front air dams many cars have. Should you scrape a wheel pant, for instance on a curb, the bottoms are easily replaceable, inexpensive foam pieces
    1
  663.  @xploration1437  We didn't hit any pot holes. I am telling you what I know from direct experience. Scraping the wheel pants is not an expensive proposition to repair - if you should be that careless. I live in rural Iowa, surrounded by gravel roads. I will report on my experience here.
    1
  664. You missed the way the solar insolation charts are developed....
    1
  665. The tires are common standard sizes, They can be changed by unclipping the wheel pants and unbolting the wheels just like any normal tire. The brake service will be normal, but very rarely needed since most of the braking will be regenerative. I plan to carry a small 12 air compressor and a plug kit, and will be able to fix most tire problems on the road that way, just as I did with my motorcycles.
    1
  666. It is actually in back of the seating.
    1
  667. Aptera is using Maxeon solar cells. You can look up the performance specs - they are the best in the industry.
    1
  668. Aptera will have a state of the art BMS and a novel heat management system, protected by IP.
    1
  669. None of these points are valid if you do any research at all. The car is not tiny and about the same size as a Prius with 25 cu ft of storage space - in fact it can sleep a couple in comfort. You have about 3 ft of space between each front wheel and the rear, so if you can't straddle many pot holes with that you should get your driving skills checked. The $25,900 asking price for the base model before incentives is a real bargain compared to other EVs that offer similar safety features in the design.
    1
  670.  @allhonesty848  I thank you for sharing your opinion with me. I care what people think about environmental issues because we collectively decide on our actions. My room mate in college was from an atoll in the South Pacific that is disappearing due to rising sea levels. I no longer have to clean bug splat off my car windshield when driving past fields on Midwest rural roads. The signs of climate change are all around us. I care about my children and grandchildren, and if discussion can open my eyes, to the way another thinks, then I am all for it. This is part of the reason I learned to speak German, Persian, and Japanese, and lived in the respective countries. I have also stayed with families in Palestine and Israel. It has given me some perspective about what we are doing to ourselves.
    1
  671.  @nickkacures2304  Yes, and Roush Performance as well as other experts with great experience, either as consultants, suppliers, or hires. I, like many of us, was a fan of ICE technology. However, I travelled the world for decades contributing to the problem as a by product of my jet travel, but I saw the changes in our climate taking place as a personal witness of them. It is amazing how quickly climate change is happening as well. I saw places that were pristine in the '70s become smog polluted messes. We have to change as quickly as we can.
    1
  672. It has been below zero all day where I live, and I know the vehicle rather well since my wife and I have ridden in a prototype. We can hardly wait.
    1
  673. No they have not. The company was only started in 2019, and they originally expected a small market and were planning to produce the production bodies with vacuum resin infusion tech, just like the prototypes. When more than 40,000 pre-orders came in, they shifted to stamped carbon and SMC sheet, produced by CPC of Italy, like other supercars. The result will be greatly improved quality at the cost of a slip in start of delivery due to the complete redesign that was needed.
    1
  674. Gay side? what does that even mean?
    1
  675. Actual crash tests will be performed to automotive standards when pre-production vehicles are available to test shortly before production begins late in the year. However, the vehicle has been designed to excel in these tests, and today's tools are really excellent. It is an improvement in almost every way on the original vehicle which was crash tested and passed all the tests. In fact, the roof crush strength was 3 time stronger than any vehicle that had been tested up to that time. The fiberglass parts are a mixture of carbon fiber, E-glass, Kevlar and hemp, depending on which properties are needed where, and they are vacuum infused and UV cured. The bottom skin of the vehicle has microchannels built in to act as a condenser for the A/C compressor, and should perform very well because of the large surface area.
    1
  676. While as of October it still appears that the first delta production model will be produced by the end of the year, crash tests will take place early next year. Many details of the design have been resolved and made public, especially regarding the cooling system and the battery pack, each of which already have their own factories doing low volume production. I expect to be driving my Paradigm model next year and will be reporting on the experience.
    1
  677. I think Chris has a Model S, but I am not sure. I do know that people with active NDAs have to be careful not to upset lawyers.
    1
  678.  @markplott4820  Mark, every day this comment is looking more ridiculous. "FRADULUENT."(SIC) people don't put their money into tooling and production intent parts, or develop IP in the form of exciting new patents.
    1
  679. It is far more stable in wind than the typical slab sided SUV. It has been tested stable in 110 mph side winds.
    1
  680. They are looking into it, but probably not due to the need to make the batteries a structural part of the car.
    1
  681. It has at least as much as other small 2 seaters. I expect it will be fine even on our rural gravel roads in Iowa.
    1
  682. Crash rating after production ready vehicles available to test. Range based on EPA highway cycle 250 to 1000 miles depending on battery.
    1
  683. This depends greatly on the country. Since it exceeds every performance spec of my current 4 wheeled car, if it walks like a duck....
    1
  684. Of course. The benefit of using 2.5 times less power than a Tesla Model 3 for the same performance will be clear to anyone only needing space for one or two passengers.
    1
  685. It could depend on your height. I was worried about that, but after riding in a prototype, I found that I didn't even notice the bar. Since the dimensions of the production model are different, I can't say for sure, but I am hopeful that it won't be an issue.
    1
  686. I will take delivery of one of the early Paradigm models (#42) for life in Iowa. The Aptera body is a foam filled composite sandwich and has a far higher r value than typical car bodies. A/C and heat are standard, and it will be spec'd and tested to perform and be comfortable from -20 to 125 F. The ABS/Traction control is superior to perhaps every other car on the road, being able to sense slip and adjust torque about every 2.5 inches of tread travel.
    1
  687. Do the math. The long range version will not be out for another year or to, while we will see the 400 mile version deliveries start at the end of this year.
    1
  688.  @ericwil76  Not with 180 independent cells.
    1
  689. We will have more guidance on this when the validation vehicles are put through their paces. I live in Iowa and plan to drive mine year round. I think they are good for at least down to -20 C and I know that some components have been tested to -40. We will see.
    1
  690. Because it is not vaporware. I rode in one before Thanksgiving, and the acceleration and handling were thrilling to experience first hand..
    1
  691.  @vic321344  Why continue to spout nonsense? In addition to the roadworthy prototype I rode in, it was parked next to two others I saw when I visited. No cardboard. Your counterfactual fantasies are the only vaporware here. There are now beta models in validation testing.
    1
  692.  @vic321344  No, I rode along with Daniel Morris, while he drove, What i rode in was no "backyard constructed motorcycle" but a fully roadworthy autocycle alpha prototype on public roads. You seem to not be able to pay attention.
    1
  693.  @vic321344  No, there won't be a production ready prototype until the beta validation tests are finished. By the way, no one "wrenches together" composite construction. You really don't seem to have a clue. Also you cant do simple math. Aptera only reformed and started on this design in 2019. That year til now does not equal 11 years to any honest, sane person. Not to call you names, but think about what you say before you write.
    1
  694. Far more than "a couple of prototypes" (one of which I have ridden in) There are now body panels in production and some have passed dimensional certification.
    1
  695. AWD will be about 0-60 in 4 seconds.
    1
  696. The NACS connector will be an SAE standard that insures interoperability .
    1
  697. You are correct about a roof rack, but there will be a small towing capability.
    1
  698. About 1800 lbs for 400 miles to 2200 for. 1000.. For comparison, my Gen 1 Honda Insight weighs about 1800 lbs.
    1
  699. Yes. They are planning another round later this year, before IPO. Update: They have filed paperwork to open another round within in days. Look for the details soon
    1
  700. There is another funding round open now.
    1
  701. Some coustomers have already gotten to drive prototypes. Jay Leno may have been the first non Aptera person to drive one. Yes, there is a chance of bankruptcy with startups. Tesla has come much closer than Aptera has - twice. They made the mistake of selling vehicles they knew were defective. Aptera will fully validate their production intent vehicles before they go on sale.
    1
  702. Why did Tesla start with a 2 door sports car? As a new manufacturer using new manufacturing and design tech, Aptera needs to start with a manageable demand vehicle to develop and prove their tech. More mass market vehicles are coming after they get the present vehicle debugged and shipping. The next in line is a 5 passenger, 4 wheel design.
    1
  703. Stalks are included in the driver interface, as well as buttons for PRNDL
    1
  704. Thank you SO much for this. Before I retired, I traveled the world cleaning up petroleum spills and measuring H2S and mercury, including in Kuwait during the fires. We need to address this on an international level. It is not uncommon for mercury to be coming out of these wells, too.
    1
  705. I always appreciate your reporting, Sam.
    1
  706. In Iowa where I live, it will do fine in the snow with AWD, and it will gain 13 miles of range per hour of time plugged into a 115 VAC outlet - 62% of which power comes from wind.
    1
  707.  @airbnbphotography  Aptera has far fewer places where energy is wasted. It will go at least 2.5 times further in the same amount of power as the already rather good Tesla Model 3 I find it interesting how they have done it.
    1
  708. RPM and range are not related this way. Gear boxes add friction and cut available range. This is one of the advantages of direct drive hub motors over geared motors.
    1
  709. I was hit from behind at 60 mph by a driver in a SUV who fell asleep while driving my 1800 lb Honda Insight. I was uninjured. I expect my Aptera will be even safer due to specifics of the 20 year newer design.
    1
  710.  @truhartwood3170  While you are not wrong, a major part of safety is staying away from collisions in the first place. I have over 400,000 miles on motorcycles, with many of them 2 up to attest to that. Aptera will not go un noticed on the roads for a few years at least
    1
  711. If you have the tent option, you can lift the rear hatch and still see out the back while camping. I have ordered it myself, and will be taking mine directly to Death Valley from the factory.
    1
  712.  @vic321344  Why do you keep posting false information?
    1
  713.  @bluetoad2668  They never have done so and they won't start now.
    1
  714. ???
    1
  715. Propane cars are used in mass production in some areas, especially in the Netherlands. They do have emissions though, and are more complex to built than an Aptera.
    1
  716. The screen design is custom, written by Crank Software of Canada.
    1
  717.  @arshanmostafavi9621  I was an American Peace Corps teacher in Taft, Iran from 1972 to 1974. I am originally from Iowa, but grew up in Chicago. I went to college in Lamoni, Iowa, where I live now. I spent one year in Germany as an exchange student. I had had a room mate from Micronesia, and that is what decided me to join the Peace Corps. When I came back from Iran, I brought students with me to Graceland. I met my wife, and we moved to Japan where we lived for three years. When we came back to the US, we lived in NM and AZ, and I traveled all over the world as an quality control and environmental tech. In 2000, we moved to the SF Bay area. We lived on a boat, and I worked for a thermal tech company for many years. We moved back to Iowa around 2021. In 2002, I took a group of returned Peace Corps Volunteers back to Iran, on behalf of the Carter Center, where we visited the Fire Temple in Yazd again.
    1
  718. Yes, they had done that by 2002, after the revolution, when I visited again
    1
  719.  @trentnethin5715  It hasn't even been tested yet. Aptera has long been working with international holomogation experts to insure that the vehicles will meet the requirements of their respective markets.
    1
  720.  @trentnethin5715  You have mis-understood their reply. They have thousands of inquiries every single day and are doing their best to answer them all. Some of these people are relatively new and you aren't going to get a full engineering answer in the time they have to respond. They already have compliance experts working on homologation, and have for some time. This is not going to be an issue in Australia. If you had tried to send an email to Tesla about anything - see if you get a response of any kind!
    1
  721. Thank you! I am also an early supporter, as a charter Aptera brand ambassador, an early investor, and holder of the 42nd Aptera Paradigm preorder (December 4, 2020). My wife and I rode in the Luna Prototype last November. We agree that this is a VERY exciting vehicle, and I hope to show off ours as soon as we take delivery next year.
    1
  722.  @vic321344  Perhaps you don't think you "will" make it to your next birthday? If so, how sad for you.
    1
  723. Mark, there is no hint of fraud here. Aptera did not go bankrupt - they returned all of their deposits and liquidated - big difference. Tell me a manufacturer that submits alpha vehicles for range or production testing? There aren't any.. Aptera is in a class not required to submit for safety testing. Nevertheless, they will submit production intent vehicles for crash testing and publish the results. Aptera is much further along in their present company than Tesla was in the same time period and has had a much smoother startup.
    1
  724. Anyone comparing Aptera to Elio has not taken a close look at either company or vehicle.
    1
  725. I live in Iowa with about 1/2 the solar insolation. I calculate that the full solar version will still pay for the vehicle from fuel savings.
    1
  726. You need another 5 or 6" from the edge of a wheel cover next to a wall to open a door.
    1
  727. A full solar Aptera has less than 10 lbs of cells on the roof. An AWD model with a 1000 mile battery weighs around 2200 lbs and has over 200 continuous hp.
    1
  728. 25,900 was the initial announced price. With falling battery prices, they still might be able to it in spite of the general inflation since then.
    1
  729. I have and well over 5,000 others in the first month.
    1
  730. The ones who equate 3 wheels with scams are the ones who are not doing due diligence. Yes, Elio and the Dale were scams. We can point to many that are not. Any one who follows the Aptera founders knows that they have multiple successful startups under their belt. The last company Chris Anthony co-founded he took public as CEO - hardly the record of a scammer.
    1
  731. There will be significant numbers of people who drive the average 30-40 miles per day and live in sunny areas that will see most of their driving needs covered by the present Aptera design. At a added cost of $900 for the full solar option it already is cost effective for many people. This is possible because of the energy efficiency offered by the Aptera design.
    1
  732. If you saw a picture in a magazine in 2006, it wasn't this company or vehicle. Over the years, there have been several vehicles designed with a nod to the 1982 A. Morelli body shape. Aptera Corp. was founded in 2019, and will likely be delivering their first production vehicles next year. This is an amazingly good performance for a startup!
    1
  733. Some research will dispel most of these concerns. The laws have been changing rapidly in most states that had restrictions, and there are few, if any left, even at this point, months before deliveries begin.
    1
  734. It isn't an either/or choice. The solar will be welcome on camping trips for instance, and collectively protect the public power grid.
    1
  735. Aptera is a 3 wheeler.
    1
  736. Ambassador George Shultz had solar panels on his house and he gleefully told me how driving his Tesla was cost free because his solar supplied all the power he needed.
    1
  737. If you are designing new parts, and have to use both, it becomes quite clear which system is preferable to do creative work in. A space probe was lost due to a simple conversion mistake a few years back.
    1
  738. AWD should be well suited. I plan to drive my 2WD year round in Iowa with studded snow tires.
    1
  739. You are still looking at an early prototype here and the body is not even constructed the same way or of the same material.
    1
  740. If you looked at what happened then it would give you even more confidence. Elio never said their deposits were refundable. Not only did Aptera refund the deposits, they also paid off all of their vendors and gave their employees severance. By the way, 2009 was when the founders lost control of the company. They liquidated in 2011. As always do your due diligence. It appears you haven't done so yet.
    1
  741.  @johnmichaeltracy9050  Good forr you. Wishing you all the best!
    1
  742. The alternator would only charge when the wheel is turning. The motors in the wheel can provide regenerative power when braking or going down hill, so your idea is used here. As far as wind goes, most of the wind while driving is caused by the motion of the car which uses power. Aptera is designed to minimise the resistance of the wind, so a wind turbine would ADD resistance - and provide less power than it was stealing from the forward motion of the vehicle. Good questions!
    1
  743.  @aussieideasman8498  Aptera uses 16" alloy wheels similar to any other similar size cars. The wheels are bolted onto the wheel motors just as others are bolted on to drum brakes.
    1
  744. Welcome to the community!
    1
  745. Repairs can be done. They offer Right to Repair and will strive for 24 hour turn around on parts shipments.
    1
  746. Through the homologation rules. Vic knows he is talking through his hat.
    1
  747. The Aptera cabin is made of composite foam sandwich with a much higher r value than conventional cars. The amount of AC needed will be far less than vehicles with conventional construction. There are indeed some overstatements - such as the EPA highway range calculations which are fairly unrealistic for setting expectations for what average drivers will achieve. This comes from the government. The expectations for Aptera seem to be panning out now during the beta validation testing. My expectation for Iowa is about 1/2 the solar range for the San Diego area, but since I live in a small town in Iowa, it will still likely meet my daily driving needs plus the occasional trip to Des Moines or Kansas City - all from solar.
    1
  748. While you are belching out contaminates that are setting the forests around you on fire.
    1
  749. True. I tend not to let layers of dust collect on my car in any case.
    1
  750.  @solexxx8588  No, but both my wife and I have had rides in an Aptera prototype. Mine was with engineer Daniel Morris - a rather lengthy one showing what it could do.
    1
  751. Yes. You will need a plug adapter. 30 amps should give you about 30 miles of range per hour plug time, and 50 amps correspondingly more. Aptera gains range so fast because at EPA highway cycle speeds it uses less than 100 watt hours per mile of travel.
    1
  752. Voltage is not an issue anymore with dc-dc conversion tech. The question will be is the power enough.
    1
  753. Even the alpha Apteras clear steep speed bumps better than most small Japanese economy cars, which I know from personal experience. The final design for the wheel pants is not fixed, but it will not get worse.
    1
  754. Aptera is designed for a couple at most. You may wish to wait until they bring out their 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan. They won't promote it until they are shipping the 2 seater.
    1
  755. good question!
    1
  756. The company formed in 2019 and the production of PI parts has just started.
    1
  757. Why?
    1
  758. I will report on my experience with a 2WD model in Iowa during all 4 seasons.
    1
  759. They may have to be careful due to NDAs.
    1
  760.  @bntagkas  Everyone who follows this knows that Chris owns a Model S. There are NDAs with several of the major system suppliers, including the batteries. The one major one we know about is Elaphe. There will be other announcements over the next few months.
    1
  761. You are overlooking the fact that Aptera has already gotten well over 5000 preorders in a month and growing fast. If the safety rating comes in well the demand will explode.
    1
  762. There will be a huge explosion in demand when the safety ratings are published.
    1
  763. Some are doing that now.
    1
  764. I plan to use mine year round in Iowa and will report on our experience.
    1
  765. The most efficient Teslas have more than 2.5 times the energy requirements for the same speed.
    1
  766. Aptera will be crash tested to automotive standards and will give excellent results that will be published before shipping begins.
    1
  767. The real advantage for Aptera is that it uses 1/3 the power of a Tesla to go the same speed and distance.
    1
  768. Their second vehicle will likely be a 5 seater.
    1
  769. My wife and I can report after having a ride in an alpha prototype that it is big FUN!
    1
  770.  @sandervanderkammen9230  Both my wife and I have ridden in a vehicle they "actually made" and seen others with our own eyes. Now the parts for production intent vehicles are being produced. and verified.
    1
  771. Almost no one would need to do that.
    1
  772.  @tomgnyc  An Aptera could charge to a 1000 mile range at EPA Highway cycle speeds in an hour at such a charger provided the charging rate didn't slow down as the battery approaches full charge. (It does). This is likely less time than the time required for gasoline fillups for a conventional ICE vehicle making such a trip.
    1
  773. It is equipped with air bags and will be crash tested by an independent 3rd party to US FMVSS Part 200 crash test standards. It has been continually virtually crash tested through the development process. It is safe.
    1
  774. Is that a laden or unladen Swallow?
    1
  775. I live in Iowa and have already talked to my local shop. They can't wait to work on it. You could do the same.
    1
  776. HA, Ha! Pricing is on their web site and starts at US $25,900 before incentives and delivery charges. If you start with garbage in, then your conclusions will be the same -GIGO. As far as putting money down, everyone has their own reasons for investing and you can't know what they are. It is foolish to call investing "bad advice" at this early stage. It would be wise to read and heed the warnings in their financials, however.
    1
  777. I know what you mean. I drive an original Honda Insight hybrid from 2001. My Aptera will replace it.
    1
  778. The full winter testing will take place at the Elaphe cold weather test track next season. With snow tires, it is likely to be very good, in part because the traction control is superior to that of any ICE vehicle.
    1
  779. A lot of it, especially the differential steering is already DBW. There may be a phone based HUD. They are looking into it.
    1
  780. Those were plastic covered. The productions ones are glass and there is video of steel ball drop and hail gun testing.
    1
  781.  @aussieideasman8498  There are many more than that. Only one is supported by the public record, reflected in the court filings and other official records of the time.. There are plenty of videos from that time purporting to show things they weren't actually showing, such as the "crushing of prototypes", which were actually only a few defective shells. Sandy Munro is not as gullible as you seem to be.
    1
  782. Aptera is designed with an RPM limited top speed of 110 mph. At EPA highway speeds it uses less than 100 watt hours per mile, and at a steady 65 mph, around 148 watt hours.
    1
  783. The passenger safety cage is carbon fiber, for sure.
    1
  784. Designed to do well. We will have the ratings later in the year.
    1
  785. That was not the same company or vehicle. What you saw was developed by Aptera, Inc. and was an IC vehicle. They were a partnership with Idealab, who hired a CEO from Detroit. He wanted to build a more conventional vehicle and forced the founders out in 2009 in a board fight. They both started new successful companies. He was unable to raise funding for his new ideas and liquidated the company in 2011. In 2019, Chris Anthony was offered the original IP by the widow of the man who had purchased it at auction. He had already successfully co-founded a lithium battery company and taken it public. He regathered his original key partners, and started with a brand new design in 2019. The name of the new company is Aptera Corp, but there is little in common with the original
    1
  786.  @tonystanley5337  Tony, I have a Chevy P30 step van, which is wider than an Aptera and even it fits in a compact parking space, which is 96" in the US. A standard space is 108". It fits. (and I have ridden in a prototype in the US).
    1
  787. Prototypes have been in existence for a while. Parts for the validation production models are in production now.
    1
  788. Very little extra weight and cost. Why not both?
    1
  789.  @aussieideasman8498  Quick answer with no research or thought, as usual.
    1
  790.  @Grant5321  Yes. Mercedes uses some of these same parts, too. There is now a world wide supply chain.
    1
  791. The second planned Aptera is a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan. They have listed an entire series of models in their SEC filings. This first one has to be delivered until we see the others, so there will not be a lot of information until these are shipping.
    1
  792. Investor and early pre-order holder - and I would have to disagree.
    1
  793. Aptera publishes a solar insolation chart sourced from US government data that shows how much solar energy you can expect on the average at your location.
    1
  794.  @tomasmarvina9699  The actual crash tests won't happen until they have production intent vehicles available for testing later in the year. Since the submission is voluntary, we don't know how fast the government will move on the testing, either. There have been many virtual crash tests performed, which are now so good that the government now often accepts the results in lieu of actual ones. Aptera hopes to publish the results before shipping starts.
    1
  795. There is also a control stock and buttons on the yoke.
    1
  796. Most of that is myth, spread by the ICE crowd, so no. I will report on mine for year 'round use in Iowa.
    1
  797. That company liquidated. It was bought out of liquidation by the original founders in 2019 and the original team reassembled. They are back with a bran new design and successful business startups under their belts, including a successful IPO. They just hired a very experienced CFO. They are happening.
    1
  798. When the rear hatch is lifted there is at least 25 cu ft of storage in the back- likely more with the gamma redesign. It can even fit two tall people to sleep on camping trips!
    1
  799. Apterae use about 100 watt/hrs to travel a mile at EPA highway speeds - averaging around 52 mph. We will have 3rd party validation numbers next year.
    1
  800. Yes, both.
    1
  801. Something like that is coming.
    1
  802. Aptera is designed very differently than what you may be thinking of, with a much more stable triangle and a lower center of gravity. It is more stable than several popular 4 wheel vehicles on the road.
    1
  803. While it is true that early versions wore rather quickly, we are way past that now, and service intervals have greatly increased as well. We will get the final performance for the LE versions once the validation tests are finished, later this year.
    1
  804.  @joey8567  All these other vehicles you mention have wear areas that Aptera does not have - and they also lose energy due to friction. Your propane powered forklifts do not have the abrasive combustion fuel products of petrol or diesel, so they are cleaner than other ICE vehicles but can't compare to some of the newer electric materials handling vehicles such as from FLUX Power, for one example. I used to travel a lot in Europe on business and on occasion returned rental cars to Schipol Airport with almost 5,000 kms on them after a week. They could hardly believe it possible. I will pick up my Aptera in California and take it camping in Death Valley, before driving up to Washington State and then eventually to Iowa and perhaps further east. I am likely to have seen temperatures from 50 down to -30 C by the end of next year, and will report on the performance and power use under many conditions.
    1
  805. I suspect that they have tested this and the turbulence induced probably increases drag. The present shape is carefully designed to produce 25 lbs of downforce at the tail end of the car at 65 MPH, which rapidly increases with increasing speed.
    1
  806. Strictly speaking, full solar is a $900 option.
    1
  807.  @markplott4820  Yes. Look at the financials. The 6 month SEC report is out recently and it shows an amazingly healthy balance sheet with around 19 million cash on hand, same as 6 months ago with a greatly increased burn rate, due to opening solar and battery factories for production and not counting a 21 million dollar grant they just got from California. There is not a hint of fraud.
    1
  808.  @markplott4820  Of course that is a fair request. There is already a great deal of evidence - more than we have for the Tesla Cybertruck at this point, which started design around the same time. Once there are production intent vehicles available to test, they will be voluntarily tested to FMVSS automotive crash standards by a third party and the results published. That should happen early next year.
    1
  809.  @jonsek  That is correct, but in most areas the enhanced solar will add to the resale value, the utility for camping, and pay for itself in free power compared to paying the utility company. Here in Iowa, where I will only get around 20 miles per day due to lower solar insolation, it will still pay for itself. Run your own numbers, but for many of us even in cloudier areas, it is kind of a no-brainer.
    1
  810. Lack of experience with the testing Elaphe has done under 10 ft of water?
    1
  811. Not a Tesla OS. Written by Crank software.
    1
  812. Where did this idea come from? It isn't the case
    1
  813. It will be interesting to see how it does. I live in Iowa where we have just spent a few days with -40 and below wind chill conditions. I will be giving my experience with an early model when we take delivery.
    1
  814. Results will be available before production begins.
    1
  815. It would certainly be a statement, but for a given source, Aptera gains range about 3 times faster than any Tesla.
    1
  816. The vehicle being produced by the current Aptera Corp. has almost nothing in common with the old ICE vehicle that was being developed by Aptera Inc. until Paul Wilber kicked out the founders and liquidated the company.
    1
  817.  @GIVEMEACID  You shouldn't have to worry about the solar cells. It should be pretty clear whose they are using, even without an official announcement yet. The total parts count for an Aptera is around 6,000 total - compared to about 30,000 parts for a standard ICE vehicle. Diagnostics should be able to pinpoint most electrical issues and a repair is likely to be un plug a board from the wiring harness and plug in a replacement, or even an OTA software update. Traction will be superb, with an ABS/traction control system that can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution - about every 2.5 inches of tread travel.
    1
  818. Chris Anthony is 6'4. There is video of much taller people sitting comfortably in prototypes. There will be some who are not too comfortable, but very few of them due to their height.
    1
  819. PI models will be covered in glass sandwich solar panels.
    1
  820. Correct, except for the parts are not cast, but produced by UV cured vacuum resin infusion.
    1
  821. It is not a scam. You are correct that most of us won't need 1000 miles of range. I have ordered the 400 mile range model - which will clearly be less than that at Interstate speeds or with heat or A/C running. Still, in daily use, even in Iowa, I should get much of my power from the solar, which with today's power costs makes the full solar option almost a no brainer. The secret to cooling this vehicle with skin cooling to reduce drag is that it is so efficient that little heat is created that has to be removed. It will be interesting to see how it performs in edge cases, such as climbing a steep grade on a hot day at speed.
    1
  822.  @aussieideasman8498  You apparently haven't picked up a newspaper recently....
    1
  823. There will be complete testing of Aptera in winter conditions at the Elaphe motors cold weather test track next winter season. Until then we probably won't have anything more than educated guesses. My guess is that the 3 wheel motor version with snow tires will perform very well, for several reasons. The traction control and ABS are far more quick to sense and react than most other systems, and we won't see snow build up in the wheel pants because of the heat from the motors.
    1
  824.  @gilbertlemelin6308  You are certainly correct. I worked for a company that was designing electric motors for use in the marine environment and know something about building them to use in salt water. I contacted Elaphe (the designers and builders of the wheel motors Aptera is using) directly and asked some questions of their engineering staff. Their replies convinced me that they know what they are doing. All of the sensitive parts are encapsulated in an inert potting compound that is resilient and can adsorb extreme shock without cracking. I will be on a Zoom call with Elaphe on March 4th, so if you have any specific questions, I may be able to ask them then, or send an email.
    1
  825. They are actually planning one for Australia eventually. Homologation is a requirement for every market.
    1
  826. Apteras will have standard registration, either as an autocycle - in most states, or a motorcycle in some. What is not practical about saving money?
    1
  827.  @billsmith5960  I never said there was a video. I have heard about it from people who were there. (there could be) I will post video of my experience in Iowa snow.
    1
  828.  @billsmith5960  difference would be that if you were to say that, you would be lying. I don't don't think you would want to be known as a liar, would you? I will show video of my Aptera performing (or not) in the snow in Iowa when I take delivery of mine.
    1
  829.  @billsmith5960  I didn't call you a liar, and I see you don't want to play that game. Good for you.
    1
  830. There is no solo drive wheel - they have either 2 or AWD. It is likely that the laws will change regarding the class Aptera needs to be tested for.
    1
  831. Warranty has not yet been announced. Aptera is a right to repair company and anyone can get parts and do repairs. My local garage in small town Iowa can't wait to have a shot at it. I think this will be a common reaction once they are available.
    1
  832. Chris Anthony already has a successful public company that started out on Wefunder, so it looks like you are already making a false assumption. They have the money they need to get into production and more than 7000 preorders.
    1
  833. No it won't.
    1
  834. It is actually in back of the driver. It uses a much smaller pack than is found in Tesla model 3s, with the same cell type and gets 2.5 times the range on the same power.
    1
  835. Seldom have I seen a thread with more uninformed and simply wrong comments.
    1
  836. The crash tests will show Aptera is far safer than a tata nano. It was designed to be safe from the beginning.
    1
  837.  @CosmicValkyrie  I sell and work with the materials. Vacuum bagged resin parts, reinforced with carbon fiber, Kevlar, E-glass and hemp fiber - depending on the properties needed are extraordinarily strong. Parts of the body are designed to be crush zones. The passenger safety cell will perhaps be stronger than any other vehicle tested up to this point. These properties have been modeled. Aptera does not legally have to do this, but they will be crash tested before the cars go on sale and the results published. They would not risk the expense and bad publicity if they thought the car might fail - like the Tata did.
    1
  838.  @CosmicValkyrie  I do have a concern about the wide front wheels, but I know there are wider trucks (Lorrys) on the roads that are not nearly as agile. The structure itself is extraordinarily tough and strong. There is an off road kit available that would make it suitable even for rutted, un paved roads.
    1
  839. Energy absorption is already well understood and it is engineered into automotive designs at the early stages.
    1
  840. It is made in San Diego with some major parts from Europe.
    1
  841.  @farklestaxbaum4945  How is San Diego worse?
    1
  842. I believe that such an app is in development.
    1
  843. This is a 2 seater. Next model will likely be a 5 seater.
    1
  844. "Aptera didn't eliminate a wheel to improve rolling resistance." Of course they did. It is one of the major contributors to the overall performance goals they are hitting - not just a bonus. It also results in lighter weight and lower costs. The regulation thing is the "bonus" as you say.
    1
  845.  @JEP-Tech  "Not to mention that you are sacrificing stability, performance, comfort, and safety by making a three wheel car." My wife and I have ridden in a prototype. Based on our experience, we will differ on those points. Also you need to take a closer look at Aptera's history. They never went bankrupt - even the first time.
    1
  846. Aptera will be tested to US crash safety standards and the results published before they start shipping. We know from modeling that it will do exceedingly well.
    1
  847.  @martylawson1638  Very unlikely that they are using iron core motors. I used to work for a company designing electric motors for boats. We hired many of the Tesla engineers back when Tesla was in a rough spot in the early 2000's. There are some hints here: https://in-wheel.com/en/technology/
    1
  848. Since they are doing wraps, there will be many color options, including custom designs available.
    1
  849.  @phamnuwen9442  Both nuclear and petroleum get much larger subsidies.
    1
  850.  @Cammi_Rosalie  Please call me Bruce. And thank you for expressing your interest. I am just another enthusiastic volunteer myself.
    1
  851. There is room in the back to sleep a couple. Some of us will live in it while we take camping trips. Heck, my wife and I have managed that on camping trips with a motorcycle. Aptera will be far more comfortable.
    1
  852. Practical? The ability to camp, sleeping two people and their dog in a 2 seater, fit 25 cu ft of goods in the back from shopping trips and using a third of the power with equal or better acceleration than most competitors hits all the buttons for many of us. Little if anything starting at $25,900 comes close - especially in cost of ownership.
    1
  853.  @drew8256  The first round was in 2019. I was an investor myself in the early Wefunder rounds. It is much less risky now.
    1
  854. Not even close to the same vehicle or company.
    1
  855. Not by itself, but it is sure slowing the destruction.
    1
  856. Covid is a major one and is affecting everyone.
    1
  857. The definition doesn't change the utility, and cost is not the only factor. The cost of running it will return the investment in savings, even here in Iowa where I will only get 1/2 the solar range on average.
    1
  858.  @vic321344  You are posting non-sense. The first Aptera, Inc produced vehicle passed with the highest rating of any vehicle tested up until that time. You have no data to back up your claim. As soon as there are production intent vehicles available to test from Aptera Corp, , they will be third party tested to FMVSS automotive standards and the ratings published. Then we will see.
    1
  859.  @aussieideasman8498  As did Lucid and other automotive prototypes that they are trying to test to failure. BTW, the Aptera beta never overturned, even running it into curbs.
    1
  860.  @ledsalesoz  The first time, they were liquidated and didn't go bankrupt. This happened after Idealab, the startup incubator they were partnered with, hired management from Detroit that wanted to build a more conventional vehicle and ousted the founders. The original founders are back after founding and running successful companies, including a successful publicly traded lithium battery company. Their restart has been much smoother than Tesla's start both in tech development and financial management.
    1
  861. The capital cost to manufacture Apteras is FAR lower than Tesla's. It will do well in cost sensitive markets once production is underway.
    1
  862. The Aptera solar panels come in at 22-23% efficiency and the vehicle uses around 100 watt hours per mile at a speed of around 50 mph average (EPA highway cycle)
    1
  863. I wonder why you say EVs are worse than ICE vehicles?
    1
  864. Of course they aren't.
    1
  865.  @Hyperion1722  Yes, but even if it is coal being burned, EVs are still far better. Some are 90% efficient or better at converting the power, where as the best coal plants are perhaps 32% to 33% efficient. In Iowa, where I live, 62% of the grid power comes from wind. If you include all the factors producing environmental damage from extraction of the fuel to the waste produced and line losses in the grid - EV's are better..
    1
  866.  @Hyperion1722  I am not defending the use of coal. I have spent decades doing detection and remediation all over the world from both petroleum and coal plants. In the case of coal it is not only just the carbon contribution. The spreading of mercury down wind from the plants is another poison that has been spread. However, in the course of that work, monitoring coal, petroleum, and all kinds of mining, I have seen the studies regarding the relative environmental harm of all kinds of energy production, distribution, and use. There are plenty that have been done with the intention of arguing a specific economic case, but EVs come out significantly ahead, and vehicles such as the Aptera, indeed get into the 90+ range. They completely lack many of the sources of energy loss that almost all other EVs have.
    1
  867. The factory will be in operation around 9 months after full funding. The Tesla and the Aptera have very little overlap in function, and Tesla's Roadster 2, which was announced in 2011 and has large deposits will still likely be beaten to market by Aptera.
    1
  868. That rattling is only present in the prototype.
    1
  869. Extensive testing has already been done, especially by Elaphe. It is unlikely to be the case. The carbon fiber that Aptera is molding the wheel pants from is not so prone to cracking as metal can be.
    1
  870. There will be validation testing on the production intent vehicles early next year. I would expect there could be up to 30% range reduction in Iowa, where I live.
    1
  871. The Reliant Robin became a joke that sold 1/2 million copies and took Reliant to the #2 manufacturer's position in GB. Aptera has FAR better performance.
    1
  872. No one who has ridden in a prototype, including my wife and I, would say that.
    1
  873. The cables are completely enclosed in production vehicles.
    1
  874. I plan to take mine to Badwater in Death Valley on picking it up from the factory if road access is there. I am not worried about hill performance.
    1
  875. Remember "they" is we. We make collective choices.
    1
  876. Not sure the Federal tax credit will apply. Some states have credits Aptera qualifies for, and they just got awarded a 21 million dollar grant from the state of California for production purposes.
    1
  877. Aptera's form is pure function - it is not a fashion statement.
    1
  878. They have already designed the RHD models.
    1
  879. On the contrary, many of us have ridden in prototypes and some of us have driven them. At this point the production body has been on public display. You have to close your eyes to what has been revealed in public to make such a statement.
    1
  880. Thank you! I use my real name for Youtube comments.
    1
  881. Not a given for something new like this. Laws can change. They had to change in the US to give this design a foothold.
    1
  882. Aptera has never been :an Elio Motors. They have real suppliers and management with a history of founding successful companies.
    1
  883. The Aptera body shape is not a fashion statement and can't go out of style. The physics wont change, nor will the desire of many people to save money through value.
    1
  884. It greatly increases the rolling resistance. It also increases cost and lessens the aerodynamic performance. It would result in a less capable vehicle.
    1
  885.  @Okurkaarrgghh  I see you don't read all my posts - I don't expect you to. Of course I often mention it - it is a volunteer, unpaid position. I also am a small investor which gives me a personal financial stake in Aptera's outcome. My advice to everyone has always been that no one should invest anything in Aptera Corp that they can't afford to lose completely, so don't do anything merely on my example. I don't mention other parts of my biography, either, such as submitting the first proposal to the US EPA for a non- global warming refrigeration system under the SNAP program. The US has now ratified an ISO standard that makes it US law going forward. My support for Aptera comes from decades of work, including travel to Kuwait during the fighting to work with the Kuwaiti EPA on the pollution issues stemming from the fires. I use my own name and don't hide behind a pseudonym as you do.
    1
  886. I will report on my experience in Iowa. Since it has great traction control, I think the AWD models will be fine.
    1
  887.  @sandervanderkammen9230  Production of the production intent bodies HAS started. Sander has been lying about this company for years.
    1
  888.  @vic321344  Agreed.
    1
  889.  @markplott4820  They are on track for first production delivery in December and you are wrong about not meeting FMVSS standards.
    1
  890.  @vic321344  34 square ft. can do the job depending on where you locate it. The panels Aptera are probably using are known to produce around 680 watts according to the manufacturer.
    1
  891.  @PC-vq5ud  Not too surprising. I have served on a regulatory safety committee developing standards for high voltage DC in vehicles. It is astounding the number of highly paid man hours that go into researching the issues, setting the standards, and then determining how to document compliance. Much of the original research was done at Cal Berkeley in the 30s by hooking grad students up to give them ever increasing electric shocks and recording the results - something that would be illegal to do today. - and this is just one of many safety elements that engineers have to be aware of, both from a design and regulatory compliance standpoint.
    1
  892. This first model has over 40 kWh of storage. It has enough energy collection to meet the average American commuter's daily driving needs. Even in Iowa, I may be able to meet my needs with perhaps 1/2 the energy collection of Southern California. YMMV.
    1
  893. The rear is designed as a crumple zone. We will find out more when the third party crash testing is done on validation copies of the delta models.
    1
  894. That will vary by battery size and chemistry. New batteries have higher charge capacity at high temperatures.
    1
  895. Most have not announced their suppliers yet, but from the information available so far, I am betting that Aptera will be using Maxeon Solar Technologies cells.
    1
  896.  @ssing7113  So wrong that I am guessing you are single, and this lack of judgement is probably an indication why.
    1
  897. Perhaps you have never seen a prototype before???
    1
  898. A new funding round to invest in SAFEs pre IPO will open on Wefunder/Aptera in February.
    1
  899.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Don't you believe in math? More than one third party has verified the possibility. It is easy to look it up. They have already talked about how the batteries will be packaged.
    1
  900. Of course, this is good advice all the time.
    1
  901. The first vehicles will have 400 mile range when the batteries are full. The 40 mile solar range in California exceeds the daily average commute.
    1
  902. I have ordered a well equipped 400 mile model for mid thirties.
    1
  903. Elio was a scam. The same due diligence that told me that tells me that Aptera Corp is nothing like them.
    1
  904. Depending on which Tesla and when you ordered. I think it very likely that I will be driving my Aptera before any Cybertrucks are on the road, and they both started development around the same time.
    1
  905.  @richarddixon6352  I am very likely to be in my Aptera next year. When it happens, I will be posting video and documenting my experiences.
    1
  906.  @richarddixon6352  Richard, Aptera Corp hasn't even been in business that long. Why would you say things like that that we all know are not true?
    1
  907.  @richarddixon6352  You have really not done any due diligence on this as your comment shows. The original Aptera, Inc. started in 2005 as an Idealab company. Once they were ready to start production, Idealab hired a CEO from Detroit with production experience. He decided he didn't want to build the vehicle he was hired for, and managed to remove the founders from the board with the help of Google and other large investors in 2009. He could not raise the funds to design his idea of a more conventional car, and liquidated the company in 2011, returning the customer deposits, paying off vendors, and giving the employees severance. They never went bankrupt. Both founders went on to found new successful companies. Chris Anthony co founded a lithium battery company in 1998 and took it public as CEO. I invested and it is making me money. He was able to buy back the rights to the original Aptera in 2019, restarted a new company, Aptera Corp, and regathered the original key people and began with a brand new design. Progress has been breathtaking, and real sophisticated alt energy investors who have done their due diligence know this and more.
    1
  908.  @vic321344  Apart from the fact that you can't express yourself in proper English, What is this "flaw" that you speak of? The original design was pubished by A. Morelli in the early 80s, but has never been found to be flawed. Aptera is not the just the second project that was inspired by it. There have been several others. But it is not a copy either. In fact the size has changed, and there have been thousands of runs of computer programs that didn't exist when the Morelli body was first thought of, refining both the shape and the performance. It would be a novel thing if you actually researched your topic before writing more nonsense. BTW if you look at Aptera's last SEC filing, you will see that you are even wrong about your "no product" claim. They now have a revenue stream.
    1
  909. I have ridden at far faster speeds than that in an early prototype. Most cars can't meet the acceleration this has up to 60 mph.
    1
  910. We can collectively no longer afford the wastefulness of a "normal" car.
    1
  911.  @A.VincentFernandez  Aptera will introduce a second vehicle around the time they go public, more in line with what you suggest, except likely with 5 seats. The "little" lost with more weight, areodynamics, and increased rolling resistance adds up, and would end up harming the value proposition for this initial market.
    1
  912. That is what many thought about Tesla's EV conversion of the Lotus....
    1
  913. The amount of energy that can be converted to motion in any hydrogen fueled vehicle is far lower than for battery electric vehicles, considering end to end costs. This makes hydrogen a bad bet except in a few special cases where energy efficiency is not the primary value.
    1
  914. The FMVSS Part 200 crash tests will be conducted by a third party and the results will be public.
    1
  915. There are many factors. Microgrids also reduce significant transmission losses in the case of electric power and renewable power sources have much less overall loss than the production, transport and use of natural gas to be used for personal transportation. Natural gas will still have a place as a chemical feed stock and some other applications.
    1
  916. Not for the way the Aptera will.be classed.
    1
  917. With the smallest battery pack having a 25 kWh capacity and a less than 100 watt hour consumption at EPA highway speeds, this would never be the case. With that size battery you would fill it in less than 1/2 an hour of charge time plugged into a 50 kW DC charger anyway. .
    1
  918. ​ @TheStonedAge  his first Aptera is a niche vehicle. It has just proven through paid pre-orders to be a much larger niche than even Aptera themselves realized. If you read their SEC report, they plan .like Tesla, ion introducing new models in the future that have much larger market potential.
    1
  919.  @Palbizu  Thank you for your comment. The current company is a brand new one, established in 2019. The old company, Aptera, Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab. Idealab appointed a CEO from Detroit who apparently never wanted to build the vehicle he was hired for. He threw out the founders in 2009, but couldn't get funding for his alternative plans, and liquidated the company in 2011 (They never went bankrupt as so many on line claim). Steve and Chris have run other successful companies, including a lithium battery company he took public as CEO before he started Aptera Corp. and brought back Steve Fambro and other key people from the original company. This happened in 2019. Progress has been good compared to most new automotive startups, including Tesla after the same time frame.
    1
  920.  @garrettlowell7637  Aptera already has dramatically more paid pre-orders than companies such as Lucid and Fisker who are offering more "mass market" vehicles. It appears that the market has already decided, and the demand frankly caught the company by surprise. It became clear that vacuum resin infusion wasn't going to cut it for the volume required, and is the reason for the delay in production. A side effect is a rather dramatic increase in quality, from "kit car like" to having more akin to supercars. It is still a niche vehicle - but a larger niche than anyone had imagined.
    1
  921. Robert, the mass of the Elaphe wheel motors is only around 50 lbs, so the total weight of wheel, tires and motor is within the range of many other personal vehicles. Roush Performance has designed the suspension and the vehicle now even passes the moose test. The alpha I rode in last November was bumpy, but handled speed bumps just fine at a brisk speed. The new suspension, which adds a front sway bar and changes the rear from a swing arm to a dual link is much more compliant. The acceleration, even with the 2WD version, is thrilling. Aptera has a governed top speed of 110 mph, and a 50 kW DC charging rate.
    1
  922. The wheel pants snap off in under a minute and the tires are a standard size.
    1
  923. I own an 1800 lb Honda Insight. I was hit from behind on the Interstate by an SUV driver who fell asleep. I was uninjured and found another one. Aptera will be even safer, and exceed the other performance parameters of my Honda by a large margin. They have had the time to develop better technology in the mean time.
    1
  924. Aptera is making their drawings available to any company that wants to supply after market parts.
    1
  925. Yes. We would lose right to repair for starters.
    1
  926. It has already been tested and has far less wind pressure or change in direction than most much heavier SUVs have. Even my 1800 lbs Gen 1 Honda Insight isn't as bad in 50 mph side winds as they are, and Aptera is even better.
    1
  927. No, not in most states, and where that is still the case, there are legislative proposals to change it. Check where you live, but probably not.
    1
  928. Probably an attitude that explains why you are still single. :). My wife had a ride in one and she is convinced!
    1
  929. For those where an Ebike will meet their needs, sure. For most of us the Aptera meets needs that an Ebike can't.
    1
  930. Aptera will be third party tested and rated to FMVSS part 200 crash test standards just like any car. Unlike many other cars, especially SUVs, the results will be made public.
    1
  931. I live in Iowa and will be testing this out with an early production model. They had a prototype on a ski slope in Switzerland that had no particular issues at slow speed.
    1
  932.  @aussieideasman8498  Too bad you are left out in the cold.
    1
  933. That number is probably about right on average - but remember that is free power. You can get 13 miles of range per hour plugged into a standard 110 outlet - 2.5 times the range you would get on a Tesla Model 3 - or 400 miles of range in an hourr at 50 kWDC.
    1
  934. No. Crank Software of Canada developed the software.
    1
  935. The sight lines will be different in the PI vehicles.
    1
  936. Yes, hidden under the front cowl.
    1
  937. You would lose some of the efficiency and the traction control. Safety would be affected. Not a good tradeoff.
    1
  938.  @M20B25-User  there are engineering trade offs to be sure. There are white papers that indicate acceptable performance is a matter of tuning spring and damping rates - which is part of the role of this vehicle.
    1
  939.  @edc1569  About 1000 lbs of batteries.
    1
  940. I bet they both use some of the same suppliers.
    1
  941. The outside covers of the wheel pods pivot up for full tire access. The rear wheel has a port and center air fill point. I plan to carry a plug kit and an electric air compressor, which has worked fine for my bikes, trucks and other cars.
    1
  942. We also know the Reliant Robin sold 1/2 million copies, and Aptera far outperforms that.
    1
  943. It is already street legal in California where it will first be sold and delivered.
    1
  944. The prototype in the video has a 40 kWh battery pack. You aren't even close in your "estimate". You clearly have some false ideas about the weight and energy density of modern EV batteries.
    1
  945. From the FAQ: The cell tech we are testing adds about 10 lbs per kWh of energy. This means the 100 kWh pack is about 1,000lbs and the 60kWh pack is roughly 600lbs. The 100 kWh car weighs about 2200 lbs.
    1
  946.  @DaveDuzzit  First, I don't work for Aptera. I am in their volunteer Brand Ambassador program and have a small investment. I also have an early preorder. In the mid 2000s I worked for a company building electric motors that hired many of the Tesla engineers when they were laid off during a rough patch, so I have seen the Tesla beginings from close up. To your point about battery pack weight - the Tesla model 3 pack weighs 1054 lbs. There is no discrepancy here. If you look, there are drawings that show how it fits in the chassis. I don't know why you think the current normal is that extraordinary, but you have some false ideas in your head about current battery tech.
    1
  947.  @DaveDuzzit  Unless I made a typo, which I don't see in this thread, I never said the battery pack would be 1000% lighter. If I did, It is not what I meant. You are going to have to do better than building straw men in order to pick a fight with me.
    1
  948.  @DaveDuzzit  I am not looking at the comments, but what I remember was you saying that your battery weighed 100 lbs for one kWr of power. A 25 kWr Aptera battery will weigh 250 lbs. Thats it.
    1
  949. It will be voluntarily tested to FMVSS part 200 crash test standards and the results published.
    1
  950. Both A/C and heat are standard.
    1
  951. They will be conducted by a third party once deltas are available to test.
    1
  952. Not yet, although Chris Anthony has Flow Technology, lithium battery public company. You will be able to invest in a pre IPO SAFE through Wefunder when the next round goes public in February at Wefunder/Aptera, The last round was over 6 times oversubscribed so when they announce you may need to act fast.
    1
  953.  @vic321344  Maybe monkeys will fly out of your butt, too. We have all heard that before.
    1
  954. I live in Iowa and will be taking delivery of an early model. I don't think you are correct. I will be showing video of the performance in snow when I have a chance- good or bad.
    1
  955. They will be using taller cells for the 600 and 1000 mile range vehicles. These cells have been announced but are not yet on the market.
    1
  956.  @aussieideasman8498  Are you time challenged? I am talking about the comparable periods in Tesla's and Aptera Corps' history. You can't make that claim and know anything about the history of the two companies.
    1
  957.  @aussieideasman8498  After the same relative time frame, Tesla was out of money and the product they were shipping had defective transmissions. Aptera is in much better shape than Tesla was.
    1
  958.  @aussieideasman8498  You apparently live in Australia, which might give you an excuse not to understand that under American law Aptera Corp and Aptera Inc. were completely different companies. Corporations buy and sell IP all the time but it doesn't turn the company that purchases the IP into the old company.. Just look at the design of the Aptera Corp. vehicle! There is practically nothing in the present vehicle carried over from the ones built by Aptera, Inc.
    1
  959. Far more time than it would take you to incur that much in fuel expenses, or with a larger, less efficient EV. Mine will pay for itself in savings if I drive it as much as I do my present hybrid.
    1
  960.  @nlewis1111  I missed the context. They are usually "bubble wrap" like sheets of plastic used to cover swimming pools to keep out debris and slow heat loss at night.
    1
  961. It is good to beware of companies such as Elio. A little due diligence back in the day uncovered Elio lies. The same process gave me faith in Aptera.
    1
  962. I suggest you ride in one when you have a chance. It will be an eye opener.
    1
  963. Likely after, but could be sooner if they get investment for a factory there.
    1
  964. The next planned model is a 5 seater.
    1
  965. Oh, the kit car with a non-existent motor claimed to go into production "any day now"? Look up who co-founded Flux Power and took it public as CEO.
    1
  966. They might. The factory lease has been signed.
    1
  967. Perhaps not if you live more than the 400 mile range of the battery pack - one way!
    1
  968.  @fhuber7507  It will be crash tested to the FMVSS Part 200 car standards - and the results will be published. It has crumple zones, air bags and seat belts. Computer modeling says it will do very well We will find out next year when the PI vehicles are crash tested by a third party.
    1
  969. Probably not on the first models. Likely later.
    1
  970. Everyone should do their own due diligence. Yes. Research the history of this car. You will find that the company is on its second attempt. The founders lost control of their company to a Detroit insider the first time they tried with the support of major investors in a board coup. He ended up liquidating the company, returning the preorders, and paying off the vendors. The employees got severance. The only ones who lost money were the investors who kicked the founders out of their own company. Both of the original founders went on to found successful companies, one took a lithium battery company public as CEO. In 2019, they bought the rights to Aptera out of liquidation and restarted with a completely new design. In the long history of the company, there has never been a hint of fraud around the founders or their associates. It is still a risky project. It is a fact that few companies are successful doing what Aptera is trying to do, but they have a rapidly growing preorder list, and are making good progress to offering a quality vehicle at an attractive price.
    1
  971. The Aptera panesl are inexpensive and there is proprietary tech that makes them easy to change. The entire cost of full solar is only $900.
    1
  972. It has been tested stable in 110 mph cross winds - far better than any SUV which tends to lift the inside rear wheel in a sharp turn. The 77" track, coupled with the battery weight, wheel motors, and superior traction control combine to provide extraordinary stability.
    1
  973. I think that even the Aptera founders are hopeful that that happens.
    1
  974. Aptera has a 77" front track. There is almost 3 feet between the front wheels and the center rear wheel track. I don't think I will have much problem straddling most potholes I encounter.
    1
  975. Elio never had a real prototype - just a rough mock up of one, and Paul Elio never had a productive business, unlike both Aptera founders.
    1
  976. The second Aptera is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel sedan.
    1
  977. Aptera WILL be crash tested by a third party to NHTSA and FMVSS part 200 standards and the ratings published - unlike many cars sold in the US now. They are voluntarily doing many things that aren't required by the regs for safety - such as installing driver's side and passenger air bags. Do your research before you comment.
    1
  978. There will be no paint, and the tires will be mostly under cover. The battery pack is temperature controlled.
    1
  979. Probably not for a couple of years yet. You can invest in SAFEs pre IPO at Wefunder/Aptera
    1
  980. ​​​ @TheLateSkeptic Aptera is a continuous improvement company which means no model years and that changes will continue even after production starts.
    1
  981.  @justskot  Tesla was shipping Roadsters that were not yet really functional. The transmissions couldn't handle the torque of the motors. Aptera will deliver well functioning vehicles from the start, that have passed validation testing.
    1
  982. No, it is 2.5 times more efficient!
    1
  983. Production will ramp up to full single shift speed within weeks of beginning. Aptera likely needs at least another 50 mil to get there.
    1
  984. I think you will be surprised. It has larger crumple zones than may cars.
    1
  985. Form follows function is a much more solid basis than fickle fashion.
    1
  986. They have said only Bluetooth for the first models.
    1
  987.  @robertd9850  Could be, but this was announced months ago.
    1
  988. Agreed. Back in the day I took a Covey seminar.
    1
  989. We are seeing parts coming off presses using 100 ton machined tool steel. It is clear where the money is going, and you will soon see production intent vehicles undergoing validation testing.
    1
  990.  @aussieideasman8498  Your claiming things that you have no knowledge of such as crash safety, in contradiction of evidence does not make those things true. You have an active imagination
    1
  991. I will be driving mine in rural Iowa.
    1
  992.  @vic321344  Aptera is in the betas testing phase. However, there are several independent sources such as ABRP and others that have confirmed their numbers. I don't follow Sonos closely but the FAQ on their web site claims less than 10 miles range per day from solar. Why make false claims that are easy to check on. Their figures are in km per week - perhaps you don't have the math to convert.
    1
  993.  @vic321344  I don't understand your reply. Why are you claiming Sonos is spec'ing double the solar range they actually are? And ignoring the independent calculations of Aptera's solar range?
    1
  994.  @vic321344  Doesn't explain why you are giving false numbers. Your "wishful thinking" seems to be a fail. The beta vehicles Aptera is testing now are for the purpose of validation, and we will know the results before the year is over.
    1
  995. Your report on Sonos' solar range claims since you doubled what they actually claim on the FAQ on their web site.
    1
  996. ​ @vic321344  You are not a reliable reporter. Here is the exact quote: "248 solar cells seamlessly integrated into the body of the car can add 112 km, on average (up to 245 km) per week". Your statement that they "promise 20 miles per day" is clearly a false one. My question to you remains why? Up to is not a promise of what everyone will get.
    1
  997.  @vic321344  You can not even understand simple English. "Up to" is not a promise of what everyone will achieve, as you seem to indicate. Again you are a sloppy reporter.
    1
  998.  @vic321344  LOL! Anyone can see what you are trying to do.
    1
  999.  @vic321344  Just look at the spec sheets of the solar cells Aptera is likely using (Maxeon) and calculate the numbers. It checks out. I have not done this for Sono Motors, and don't know whose cells they are using.
    1
  1000. It is designed to be very safe. It will be tested to automotive crash test standards and we will have the ratings before production begins.
    1
  1001.  @danharold3087  There are few homes in the US that don't have 220 service for high power devices such as electric dryers, stoves and water heaters.
    1
  1002.  @vic321344  "expensive" is relative to the return. Since for most owners the cost delta will more than pay for itself in power savings, it is almost a no-brainer. Even in cloudy Iowa, it will clearly pay back the $900 cost of the full solar option.
    1
  1003. Aptera has had prototypes out on the road. My wife and I have both ridden in one.
    1
  1004.  @ps.2  Aptera panels are 22-23% efficient at present.
    1
  1005. Aptera achieves close to 340 eMPH
    1
  1006. Aptera is presently expected to start at $25,900 for the 250 mile range base version. Final pricing has not been announced yet, but $48,300 has not been suggested by anyone associated with the company.
    1
  1007.  @aussieideasman8498  Such blather. Read the road tests? Both my wife and I have ridden in Aptera on public roads ourselves. We made the effort to do actual due diligence - not create the imaginary fantasies you do regarding something you know literally nothing about.
    1
  1008.  @pjfry  Yes. Both the company and I have always said it was a niche from the beginning. Of course the niche is turning out to be far larger than the one that launched Tesla. And you mention "absurd width" in another comment but then say it is necessary. Both statements can't be true. Different with Aptera is not a fashion statement. They are willing to go where the performance requirements take them.
    1
  1009.  @pjfry  No. Just compare the moose test performance of almost any SUV with Aptera. They must be tall, so they are even more unstable than Aptera. And I have driven my Chevy P30 almost anywhere in cities and could still park it in a compact (96") parking space - and it is wider than Aptera. I am not claiming that Aptera is a do-all vehicle for everyone. But I have ridden in one, and I have a pretty good idea of the performance and use cases. The concept is not "bad" and the owners will soon be proving it.
    1
  1010.  @aussieideasman8498  Why stop comparing with Tesla? Anyone with any sense in the market for an EV should make the comparisons. And while I don't expect you to do it, anyone reading this should view Aptera's recent solar panel video and see how many of our Aussie friends' claims have been proven imaginary just from that one reveal. He doesn't want you to make any investigations that might show his imagination for the fact free zone that it is. He is also confused about patents and doesn't understand the difference between a published and a granted patent, by his own admission. He claims he can read, but he doesn't understand the significance of what he reads and goes on at length to prove it.
    1
  1011.  @aussieideasman8498  I invite anyone to check your claims. Where you either post falsehoods or things from your imagination that you have no data for and don't know. Lets start with this howler:
    1
  1012.  @paulmuresan8889  I wish I did have numbers. I do know how many watts it takes to cool a cabin that size, and that the passenger compartment is much better insulated than the average car. My back of the envelope calculation is that it can work. I used to live in the Phoenix area. My feeling is that the full solar is worth it, even if I can't get a big range boost. It would still mean I can leave a pet in the car with the A/C on, or park all day and not come back to a heat soaked car, extending battery life, without killing range. I also know that higher efficiency and cheaper cells are likely around the corner. The Aptera cells are designed to be easily changed out, and the total power available may increase greatly over the life of the car. Here is a picture of the present solar coverage options: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/a27d24_ce289a73ea8a4337bb1c8ce5a8584824~mv2.jpeg/v1/fill/w_1175,h_390,al_c,q_90/a27d24_ce289a73ea8a4337bb1c8ce5a8584824~mv2.webp
    1
  1013. I agree that it is wide. The width of the front wheel track resulted in an over 10% improvement in the cd rating of 0.13, which buys a lot of value in the tradeoff. There are certainly wider vehicles on the road in Europe. The proposed new Rolls Royce will likely be wider. As for snowy roads, there will be full testing on the Elaphe cold weather test track next season, but it is likely to be very good. The traction control senses and reacts 32 times per wheel revolution, far faster than other systems. The Aptera has airbags, front and rear crumple zones, and other automotive safety features not found in other 3 wheelers and will be crash tested to automotive standards. The crash test results of the original vehicle were very good, and this will be better. When the results are published late in the year I think orders will explode.
    1
  1014. Do your research and learn the facts. I have.
    1
  1015.  @aussieideasman8498  If Australia doesn't plan for a new future, they will not have one - perhaps of any kind that has human life continuing in it.
    1
  1016. Joe, my wife and I have ridden in a prototype, and neither is remotely true in person.
    1
  1017. Soon the production intent vehicles will be undergoing validation testing and we will have actual numbers. There is close to 4 feet of clearance between each front tire and the middle wheel. A little practice will make most potholes simple to straddle. I was worried about the side windows, too, but an actual ride in a prototype showed both my wife and I that there was little to worry about for us. I still have an open mind, because the relative seat positions have changed for production, but we were surprised to find it was not the issue we thought it would be.
    1
  1018. Results will be published on pre-production versions in a few months. Likely to be excellent.
    1
  1019. ​ @jerkychew899 32 cu ft and evough room to sleep a couple on camping trips. It has more room than our present two seater. It will be less expensive to drive and do more with more fun.
    1
  1020. Why is that? They are more lightly loaded than most tires - especially on EVs.
    1
  1021. They got around 20 times the expected number of paid pre-orders and had to redesign the vehicle for production by CPC. The good news is that the quality has increased from "kit car like" to more like a super-car. I am thrilled with what the delay is buying us.
    1
  1022. I will let you know how mine does in Iowa.
    1
  1023. At that point it is simpler and cheaper to run a plug to solar panels on the roof of the parking structure.
    1
  1024. In Iowa a couple of weeks ago we had -22 F (-30 C) and deeper snow on the ground. I will be able to report from experience next year.
    1
  1025. Even in a prototype, I found the NVH less than a sports car I have owned. The prototypes did not have any sound deadening. I suspect the performance in this regard will be rather good, especially for a vehicle that can do 0-60 in 4 seconds. Production will reach 40 vehicles per 8 hour shift within weeks of production start.
    1
  1026. Why increase the rolling resistance and weight of the vehicle? There is zero performance benefit to doing so, and it would cost more.
    1
  1027.  @aussieideasman8498  Pure imagination. Even in a prototype I went 70 with no control issues. I will be driving my own vehicle on gravel roads in rural Iowa, and after riding in a prototype I have zero worries. The PI models will be undergoing validation soon. I suggest you come and drive an LE next year and see how your commentary holds up.
    1
  1028. annyeong-haseyo! I agree.
    1
  1029. They covered the A/C question - the bottom skin of the car. They have IP around this.
    1
  1030. The original company was a partnership with Idealab. They hired a guy from Detroit to be CEO and he kicked out the founders in 2009 in a board coup. He never wanted to built the vehicle he was hired for. They didn't go bankrupt, but he couldn't raise funds for his 4 wheel car idea, and liquidated the company in 2011. Both founders started and ran successful new companies before starting Aptera Corp in 2019.
    1
  1031. The Aptera shape was designed in 1982 by A. Morelli.
    1
  1032. I know that with alpha there was about 25 lbs of downforce designed in at 65 mph at the expense of some drag. I don't know how this has changed for production.
    1
  1033. Good for you! More power to you (as they say).
    1
  1034. Aptera has designed in crumple zones that model well. Soon you will see the ratings from physical crash testing.
    1
  1035. Yes, but coming slower because of Covid. Comfortable height limit is around 6'8"
    1
  1036. Which sold 1/2 million copies...
    1
  1037.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Check the Wiki: "Approximately half a million Reliant vehicles were produced and sold in at least nine countries. For a period from the 1970s until the 1990s," - The company produced up to two million vehicles over a 65-year history starting in 1935,
    1
  1038. No. They are just making parts for the body now. The first Production Intent vehicles will be finished early next year and begin validation testing, including crash testing. As that occurs we will be getting final specs and pricing, and the first deliveries could start as soon as the end of next Summer.
    1
  1039. The foam insulated cabin of the Aptera means that that can be done. It has a much higher R value than most cars.
    1
  1040. You will soon regret how this comment will make you appear...
    1
  1041. Do your due diligence. You can see that they have raised far more than $20M from the SEC filings and have doubled their cash position since last year's report. I have ridden in a prototype - and not a "kit car" mockup like Elio was showing.
    1
  1042. The looks come from the performance design - not the other way aroujnd.
    1
  1043.  @avada0  You may have seen a number of vehicles based on the 1982 A. Morelli body shape, from different companies. They all had major differences besides the general body shape - including vehicle size and drive train design.
    1
  1044.  @avada0  The development of the present vehicle started in 2019. I don't think that is "forever". This is easy to check on.
    1
  1045. They actually plan a truck bed model for the future, but it will likely be 4 wheels.
    1
  1046. No they didn't. They got ejected from the company they founded by their partners, who failed when they abandoned their plans. It was the fault of a Detroit engineer that Idealab hired as a CEO. Both founders have since run successful companies, and Aptera Corp is now producing the Production Intent vehicles for validation.
    1
  1047. It stems from an 1982 A. Morelli design and is due to seeking the lowest possible air resistance.- hardly silly. Others have used the same shape, including MIT in the '90s
    1
  1048. "this thing" is a far cry from what was being planned in 2007, and far more capable.
    1
  1049. Yes. This will be classed as a motorcycle or autocycle. It will still be tested to Automotive safety standards.
    1
  1050. The body design was created by A. Morelli in 1982. There have been several vehicles designed with this general shape since, but Aptera Corp, the builder was started in 2019.
    1
  1051. That could be true with any car. The full solar version will have the rear hatch completely covered, so no glare coming from the back.
    1
  1052. The original prototypes had dual headlights in front. The present arrangement is to comply with US law.
    1
  1053.  @Jkauppa  Which reflects the present Aptera design.
    1
  1054. It is much more stable than almost any SUV.
    1
  1055. I will be getting one of the first ones for all season use in Iowa. I will report on performance in snow.
    1
  1056. The complete panel design with glass encapsulation didn't exist until Aptera developed it and patented the process. My guess is that they will become a supplier to other ompanies. There are almost 4 ft between each front tire and the trailing center. Straddling objects on the road, including pot holes, will be rather easy in most cases.
    1
  1057.  @aussieideasman8498  Finally Aussie Ideas Man is correct about something. Too bad he doesn't take his own advice. He does have an active imagination though. He thinks he knows more than people who have visited the factory and R&D centers and have ridden in the prototypes.
    1
  1058. The 3 wheel Reliant Robin sold around 1/2 million copies. Also you have completely ignored Asia.
    1
  1059.  @ogawasanjuro  Less stable than what? Aptera is certainly MORE stable than many 4 wheelers on the US market, due a combination of design factors, including a lower center of gravity, the 2/3rds 1/3 forward weight bias and the wider spacing of the front wheels.
    1
  1060.  @ogawasanjuro  Yes, I placed a refundable deposit on an Aptera in the first hour one could do so in 2020, and I also have made a small investment - primarily as a donation to push the world in a direction I wish to see - not that I expected to get a financial return when I made it. I have quality control experience with almost every automotive company in the world, and have lived in Asia. I speak Japanese and have worked in many other Asian countries including S.Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, and the Philippines, Your statement is not only silly, but flat wrong. Think about it. I should not have to explain it to you since you claim to know something about physics and engineering.
    1
  1061. Neither the company nor the vehicle from 20 years ago are the same.
    1
  1062. It looks like they are already largely compliant with the rules that will apply to them.
    1
  1063. It is not designed to be a mass market vehicle, but your other points are easy to dismiss with a bit more research. There is enough room in back to sleep a couple on camping trips. The FMVSS third party crash tests will dismiss your safety concerns. The beta model has already passed the moose test.
    1
  1064.  @rbhe357  You said "Too impractical for nearly everyone." Most people don't take their families with them to work. It will be practical for many who have a commute. It already passes the moose test, which means the stability is better than many 4 wheel cars on US roads.
    1
  1065. You have some incorrect information here. The Aptera panels will not be glazed (glass covered) and are between 22-23% efficient.
    1
  1066. Often links cause comments to be removed, but I will try. https://youtu.be/t5nQkxn_efQ
    1
  1067. The line will be narrower in the production intent vehicles. I rode in a prototype and was surprised not to be very bothered by it. YMMV, depending on how tall you are.
    1
  1068. The present design is not a "Tesla killer" In fact, it is likely that they will cooperate at some level There are talks going on under NDAs now.
    1
  1069. I had a ride through the twisties in the Luna prototype just before Thanksgiving. It put many sports cars to shame in acceleration and cornering, even in this early prototype form. People don't expect an "economy car" to deliver this kind of performance. It will be a revelation once more people get to experience this in person.
    1
  1070. I rode in a slower prototype, and even it blew my mind. Once people experience the performance of the production vehicles the demand will explode - they are MAJOR fun.
    1
  1071. The existing prototypes have vacuum resin infusion bodies, unlike the PI vehicles which will have parts made of SMC and carbon fiber of much tighter assemby dimensions.
    1
  1072. I will report on how mine performs in Iowa.
    1
  1073. You might be confusing your companies. Chris Anthony co-founded and took a lithium battery company public. The founders both ran successful companies after they lost control of the first Aptera in 2009, and they have structured the present Aptera Motors to make this very unlikely to happen again.
    1
  1074.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Of course we are. We hope for a better world than the one we have and work to create it, unlike people like you who try to tear everything down.
    1
  1075. The next Aptera vehicle will be a 4 wheel 5 passenger sedan.
    1
  1076. Safety is likely to be far better than you imagine. It will be crash tested to automotive standards and the results published before shipping starts.
    1
  1077. No one wants to get T-boned.
    1
  1078. The beta was a handling test mule.
    1
  1079. Aptera can collect enough power for 40 miles per day at EPA highway speeds, or 20 miles per day in Iowa where I live, with the full solar model.
    1
  1080. Probably NDA' s involved.
    1
  1081. We can imagine anything. But it will get FMVSS Part 200 crash ratings, and you can see for yourself.
    1
  1082. I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles. I welcome the safety this offers
    1
  1083. The motor efficiency is high, over 90%, partly because there are no transmission losses. There is also less rolling resistance due to the 3 wheel design.
    1
  1084. "This car" was not announced in 2010. Aptera Corp was only founded in 2019, and pre-orders were not opened until Dec. 2020.
    1
  1085.  @sandervanderkammen9230  They proved it long ago with Steve becoming a major food supplier to whole foods and the Middle East, and Chris taking the lithium battery company he co-founded public as CEO. Both have been involved with numerous other successful companies and neither has ever been associated with a "scam"
    1
  1086. I think it happened when they were "Christened".
    1
  1087. Part of the reason I am getting a white one - I want to be seen in those conditions.
    1
  1088.  @sandervanderkammen9230  Too bad Sander is fake. He has been making unsubstantiated claims for years. I wonder who is paying him to do so?
    1
  1089. Do some due diligence. You are guessing because it is clear that you haven't. The last company Chris Anthony cofounded, he took public as CEO and both founders have other successful startups in their history.
    1
  1090. They have built multiple prototypes. My wife and I have both ridden in one of them. They also have over 38,000 pre-orders. They won't be counting sales until they can get the first delta models built and tested. The design has been finished and it depends on financing there will be more detail released in a webinar on January 20th.
    1
  1091.  @gene8172  You are allowed. Only about 1% of the potential market for new products fall in the early adopter category.
    1
  1092. Full tests in snow will take place next season at the Elaphe cold weather test track.
    1
  1093. I will let you know how mine does in Iowa. Initial results of a prototype on a Swiss ski slope were good.
    1
  1094. Extraordinarily low center of gravity, 77" wide track and traction control, among other things.
    1
  1095. The reason it is practical for Aptera and not for Tesla is because Tesla doesn't have a foam sandwich, high r value body like Aptera and it uses almost 3 times the power of an Aptera at EPA highway speeds, and much more than that as the speed increases from there.
    1
  1096. The ban will come because continued use of gas/diesel will kill a billion people over the next century. What is debt compared to you and your family getting to live?
    1
  1097.  @TheDieselndust  Compare that to a Tesla Model 3 that might get 60 miles under the same conditions!
    1
  1098.  @LordSaliss  You have your math wrong. the 150 overnight range mentioned is from a 115 VAC outlet, not a 240. The Aptera will get 2.5 times the range of a Model 3 from the same amount of power. The same ration applies whether the power source is 115 VAC - 240 VAC, or 400 VDC.
    1
  1099.  @oldrrocr  But there has been, and there may be new breakthroughs occurring right now. Aptera is using the most efficient, longest lived cells in mass production at the moment and has developed new controller and encapsulation tech that they may soon be supplying to other companies as well.
    1
  1100. Aptera is designed with a mix of priorities, including safety. It comes with airbags, and will be tested to FMVSS Part 200 crash standards by a 3rd party and the results will be made public.
    1
  1101.  @coolpix222  Without knowing your resume, I can tell by reading your comment that you have zero experience evaluating the crash resistance of a steel reinforced SMC/carbon fiber body.
    1
  1102.  @coolpix222  Thank you. I am NOT an engineer, but I ran a QC lab for several years. I learned not to make assumptions but to rely on actual data. You are making some false assumptions. Aptera will be VOLUNTARILY third party crash tested to the FMVSS automotive Part 200 crash test standards. So your "assumption" is wrong. The data is coming. I suggest you wait for it. That is the way to be real.
    1
  1103.  @coolpix222  No, I am not an engineer, but I also designed and helped built a samples freezer for the ISS - and won the bid against engineers from several other large companies because they overlooked too many things. I wrote many of the validation protocols that make drugs you may use legal for use, and my name is on every page of the paperwork - along with 4 others. Part of the safety design is about the rate of deceleration of the passenger on impact. Aptera has a larger than required crumple zone to slow the rate of deceleration, and a passenger safety cage to prevent intrusion of mass into the passenger occupied areas. Your math is correct but you are wrong about the greater deceleration, because you have ignored the design elements that are mitigating. The test results will be the test results. Not waiting for them sounds like the Boeing engineers who seem to have decided that they are not needed.
    1
  1104.  @coolpix222  Why so ignorant? I have done several government projects for Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory myself that I can't talk about, except that they involved thermal design. I have also worked on the Stanford Linear Accelerator, the Keck, and other high profile projects. I won't be "proving" you wrong until the crash tests are performed and the data is published. The reason for 3 wheels should be obvious to you if you are really a competent engineer. By itself it was not done for safety. The fact that the front wheels are so widely spaced, and there is a 2/3rd - 1/3 forward weight distribution and an unusually low center of gravity, even compared to other EVs are all safety related. However, since efficiency is a primary goal, the use of three wheels reduces weight, rolling resistance, wind resistance, and cost - all in line with the design goals of the vehicle. Your claim that Aptera is basically a Cessna shows you have not looked at the design in any detail at all. Examine the Body In Carbon that was publicly shown at the Paris trade show a couple of weeks ago.
    1
  1105.  @coolpix222  If they don't plan to meet car safety standards, why are they putting in air bags? No other US 3 wheeler does. Meeting US automotive crash standards and verifying the performance through 3rd party tests has been part of the design brief from the beginning. How does 3 wheels not reduce friction , cost and weight over using 4?
    1
  1106.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Except they are not doing that. Look at the PI body they just showed in Paris.
    1
  1107. It is not. It still fits in a compact parking space.
    1
  1108. As they say, the devil is in the details. There have been failed startups in the past that shipped early models before they were ready. Aptera is going through a detailed validation program and will start production when the design is proven. At this point, barring continued severe supply chain issues, they are on track be able to start deliveries by the end of this year.
    1
  1109. This is a prototype with no sound insulation. The production intent bodies will be made of different materials, with much tighter tolerances and have sound deadening.
    1
  1110. I do I did the same due diligence I did on Aptelastra. The two companies and their management have little in common. The motor that Elio claimed never existed. Aptera founders have a record of starting successful business. The last company Chris Anthony co-founded he took public as CEO.
    1
  1111. It will certainly take advantage of a J1772, a standard 110 v. and possibly others.
    1
  1112. unlikely. I have ridden over speed bumps in an early prototype with no issues.
    1
  1113. Remember that this cat has motors in the wheels that will be putting out considerable heat. It is unlikely that ice could form, but if it did they can be clipped off in less than a minute.
    1
  1114.  @katiegreene3960  none of these cars have motors in their wheels. You don't get snow build up on your exhaust pipes.
    1
  1115.  @katiegreene3960  It is not about temperature once we are over 32F - it is about the amount of heat - on the order of 100 watt hours per mile.
    1
  1116.  @johnb7430  Yes. There will be an AWD Aptera going through paces at the Elaphe cold weather test track next year. Already lots of video with these wheel motors on other cars under these conditions.
    1
  1117. The tires will be very easy to change, especially the front ones.
    1
  1118. My first Honda Insight was rear ended at 65 mph by an SUV driver who fell asleep. I was uninjured and found another to replace it. The Aptera is likely to be safer that that was in a similar accident.
    1
  1119.  @GA-wq8xq  Aptera already has around 20 times the number of paid pre-orders they were expecting for this first vehicle.
    1
  1120. Aptera is designed to have excellent performance on standard automotive crash tests and the rating will be published before production starts. I expect it to be excellent. There is a Level two Safety Pilot available as a $1,300 option, OTA upgradable.
    1
  1121. There will be actual data on this when the delta production intent models are voluntarily crash tested to FMVSS automotive standards by a third party and the results published. I had a ride in an alpha model and the engineer driving purposely hit a steep speed bump at a good speed. Based on that I am not too worried, especially since the design is greatly refined for production.
    1
  1122. It is not a mass market car, but many singles and couples will find it the most practical, cost effective and yes, fun for their needs
    1
  1123. ​ @ed379  Another person with no understanding of what is happening or why.
    1
  1124. Not even close to a comparable application, or much similarity of material
    1
  1125. Don't overlook the dramatically lower cost of operation. However if you need 4 seats, you will need to wait for Aptera's second vehicle, which will have larger operation costs.
    1
  1126. It is if one of the members has a daily commute to work.
    1
  1127. You can't even count. Aptera Corp was only founded in 2019. Do some due diligence worthy of your user name.
    1
  1128. You will change your tune once you have a chance to ride in one, as my wife and I have. You might have missed that it has outrageous performance and is far safer than a motorcycle- while offering far more utility - hardly a gimmick.
    1
  1129. Once this first vehicle is in production and the IPO is near, the second Aptera vehicle will be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
    1
  1130.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Are you claiming to know the future now, too? If we continue on the path of building and driving resource hungry vehicles, there will be many that have no future do to the mindless destruction of resources.
    1
  1131. Suspicion is good. Do your due diligence, including reading the SEC reports.
    1
  1132. Crash tests will be standard FMVSS Part 200 automotive tests conducted by a 3rd party.
    1
  1133. Many will use it as a commuter. Once my kids were out of the house, I put several hundred thousand miles on motorcycles. It is a great vehicle for camping. 3.5 second acceleration with the AWD is big fun and even the 2WD is no slouch.
    1
  1134. The base model was announced with a target price of $25.9K in 2020.
    1
  1135. @Sony-ox7wx Both vehicles have gone through significant changes since they were announced. However, even with the huge upgrade in design from a vacuum resin infusion body to carbon fiber and SMC, the value proposition has only increased. For those that seldom need a 4 door car, the cost of ownership and the environmental burdebn of an Aptera, and the likely service life are all vastly improved over a Bolt. Also, for those who want to go camping, the Aptera can sleep two people who are considerably taller in vastly more comfort than if it were tried in a Bolt. Aptera is a perfect weekend camping vehicle.
    1
  1136. Aptera Corp was founded in 2019, and began development then.
    1
  1137. Some of us, including at least one of the Aptera founders, if not both, have lived all over the world and chosen to come here. There are few places more tolerant of new thinking..
    1
  1138. Aptera has more unsprung weight to control than many vehicles. The early prototype I rode in before the final suspension design felt more like a sports car. However, I live in rural Iowa surrounded by gravel roads. I am not too concerned and will report on my experience with a production model.
    1
  1139. Yes. It will be crash tested to FMVSS Part 200 automotive standards by a third party and the results published.
    1
  1140. Plenty of updates. Are you refreshing?
    1
  1141. around 13 miles per hour plugged into a 115 vac outlet - more if 220.
    1
  1142. If you have a 115 volt AC outlet in your garage, you can gain 13 miles of range per hour of plug time. The power will cost you a little, but far less than gasolene would.
    1
  1143. RHD has already been designed.
    1
  1144. The vehicle that is being built now in carbon fiber and SMC is far more advanced than the vacuum resin infusion one originally planned. It is taking longer, but the increase in quality will be well worth it.
    1
  1145. Although many of your points regarding physics are correct, your conclusions are not. Aptera is constructed with a foam sandwich body that has a much higher r/value than usual vehicle construction and the heat gain (or loss) will be far lower than with a standard car. I live in Iowa and will probably only get 20 miles of range per day on the average - far more than I will need in small town Iowa - and enough to support the occasional trip to Des Moines and Kansas City. The cost of full solar is almost a no brainer for many of us.
    1
  1146. The there we are at today will supply me with 15 or 20 miles per day in Iowa - enough for my daily needs and an occasional trip to Des Moines or Kansas City. It won't be for every one, but for many of us it will be cost effective and pay for itself.
    1
  1147. Aptera will not be "getting around" any laws. They are designing a very aerodynamic, thin side mirror housing that will comply with the law and also house a camera.
    1
  1148. Aptera panels are about 22-23% efficient.
    1
  1149. The panels on the Mars rover were cleaned by dumping dirt on them. Here we have car washes.
    1
  1150. Good for you! Full solar for Aptera only runs $900, so a lot of progress is being made in this area.
    1
  1151.  @btccricket14  Just look at the leap in performance between Jason Hill's first. Aptera design and the present one. With the pace of innovation accelerating, there are likely to be even larger strides in capabilities for the future.
    1
  1152. Completely different body and construction from the prototype.
    1
  1153. Aptera has been tested stable in 110 mph cross winds. It is much more stable than any SUV. The traction control doesn't rely only on braking.
    1
  1154. I rode in the silver "Luna" prototype. It was rough, not too different than many full on sports cars. Roush Performance has completely reworked the suspension since then and the ride is much more compliant but still has improved cornering through the addition of a sway bar and going to a dual link rear. I live on a gravel road in Iowa, and expect that it will perform well under my use conditions.
    1
  1155. While Aptera only has 2 seats, it is nothing like a motor bike. I have around 1/2 million miles on motorbikes, and have ridden in an Aptera prototype. Aptera outperforms my present car in every way as a car.
    1
  1156.  @Martin-se3ij  You are correct that the Aptera is a niche market vehicle. The company originally expected that they would sell around 4,000 copies. They were rather surprised when well over 40,000 pre-orders came in and the numbers are still climbing. It required a complete redesign of the vehicle to change the manufacturing methods. Aptera has 32 cu ft of space - and enough room to sleep a couple in the back. It is bigger than our present Honda and far less expensive to run, with far greater performance. I think many people have a mistaken idea regarding the size. As far as crash safety, Aptera will be voluntarily crash tested by a third party to the same FMVSS part 200 standards that cars are tested to - and the results will be published, unlike many SUVs on the American market.
    1
  1157.  @Martin-se3ij  This just shows that you don't understand the nature of the space Aptera offers. My wife and I have done a lot of motorcycle camping - by choice- and Aptera will be luxury in comparison. It is not designed for the role of a London taxi, so that is hardly a valid criticism.
    1
  1158. This will have a hitch, but won't tow a horse trailer. Cybertruck would be better for that use.
    1
  1159.  @AllanSustainabilityFan  I am in the Ambassador program and have been in on some Zoom calls where this was discussed.
    1
  1160.  @berndbroot587  I am not sure what you mean when you say not the best concept? For you? That is quite possible. Aptera was certainly designed for a small niche market, and the niche has turned out to be far larger than was originally thought by the founders. (They were expecting a demand of perhaps 4,000 units per year and they now have over 46,000 paid pre-orders) Aptera is a continuous improvement company and already has software in place so they can track component changes and improvements on the fly from vehicle to vehicle. If they see a way to improve, they can do so immediately, since they have the systems in place to do so. They have already shown the ability to be agile in management decisions. Their goal with this first vehicle is to be as efficient as possible given the engineering trade-offs that always exist. My initial order was for a 2WD model, but I have since moved to Iowa, where the AWD will be more effective on Ice and in snow, while giving up some potential efficiency. It will also be more fun- so there is that. These first AWD models will have far better acceleration than the first 200 or so Tesla Roadsters, and a far smaller cost.
    1
  1161.  @redtide941  As a thermal guy, I have few concerns about the cooling system.
    1
  1162. 4 wheels would decrease performance to a major degree, due to increased wind resistance, rolling resistance, weight, and cost. It was not designed the way it is for "looks".
    1
  1163.  @artsmith103  Batteries, solar hatch, and motor cooling all exist. The cooling in the infamous video had just not been connected. Aptera is a continuous improvement company and work on every system will always be ongoing. They are also right to repair.
    1
  1164.  @artsmith103  Source? The wheels are meant to be cooled by antifreeze. They have the connections, but are not hooked up.
    1
  1165.  @artsmith103  You are just wrong. Why did the vehicle slow down if it couldn't detect the heat exceeding limits. It was not "failed" cooling that occured. Gamma will be giving rides soon with the cooling hooked up.
    1
  1166.  @artsmith103  Sourced from your imagination.
    1
  1167. You can order a camping kit which includes a tent that fits over the rear hatch, and can sleep two people.
    1
  1168. They started on this design in 2019. which is the same year that Tesla announced the Cybertruck. There is a chance that they will be shipping their first Apteras before we see production Cybertrucks. In any case they are making far more rapid progress than Tesla made in doing a simple EV conversion for their first car - and Tesla had a 250 million dollar loan to do it with.
    1
  1169.  @chrisgriffiths2533  You may be confusing the present Aptera Motors with the original company which was sold off in liquidation after the Idealab appointed CEO decided he didn't want to produce the design he had been hired for, and large investors such as Google voted to oust the original founders from control of the company. They bought back the rights in 2019 after having founded and taken public a lithium battery company. There is no company at present offering a serious competitor to the performance niche targeted by Aptera. With their second planned vehicle they will start moving into a competitive space. One huge advantage they have is that their tooling costs are an order of magnitude less expensive than companies such as Tesla.
    1
  1170.  @chrisgriffiths2533  If you think Aptera has competition for their first model, what you think it is? Even the Reliant Robin propelled Reliant to be the 2nd largest automotive manufacturer in GB, and there is a huge difference in the substance of what Aptera is offering compared to what Reliant had in the Robin, compared to other manufactures' products of the time. Aptera's unfilled niche is a small, relatively inexpensive and safe vehicle that meets most needs of an individual or couple with low operating and environmental costs.
    1
  1171.  @chrisgriffiths2533  I see you couldn't answer my question. You seem to have no idea what a market is. Your comment is ridiculous. Hint: even if you baked 100,000 dog turd brownies, it would not increase the number you could sell. The pre-order numbers, including my own, show that there is a specific market. We know generally that early adopters only make up less than 100th of the market potential for a product.
    1
  1172.  @chrisgriffiths2533  Startup is likely to be slow. If they get through the Paradigm production next year, I think it will be a huge win. People will understand what it is when they start seeing them around and getting rides. It may take them a couple of years to catch up with demand. They have already doubled their planned production rate to 20,000 vehicles per year, but how quickly they can reach that level is a question. that isn't yet answerable.
    1
  1173. Aptera will be crash tested to the same standards that Tesla are and likely to do as well or better in them. Tesla and Aptera are not competitors at this point and both companies have tech that could benefit the other.
    1
  1174. The same efficiency that makes solar work, also offers lower cost to run on any electric power source,
    1
  1175.  @vic321344  Not a shred of evidence for this claim and much to counter it, including a great deal more than we have than that the Cybertruck will pass. (I don't doubt that it will, either) Vic will lie about anything if he thinks he can put Aptera in a bad light.
    1
  1176. Solar is not the only way Apteras can charge, and the summers, when most people will be driving in the far North anyway, have more solar insolation than average.
    1
  1177.  @m4d_al3x  There are well over 15,000 pre-orders at this point, and going up. Compared to Tesla and other startups they are doing GREAT.
    1
  1178.  @m4d_al3x  Aptera formed in 2019, the same year Tesla announced the Cybertruck. If you compare the time it took for Tesla to bring their EV conversion to market after they were founded, or the progress that Aptera has made towards shipping their first vehicle compared to the Cybertruck, which has been delayed again to 2023, yes. Of course this is not meant to disparage Tesla. It should give you some perspective however to the speed at which Aptera is moving with far fewer resources.
    1
  1179.  @m4d_al3x  Yes, you are right, but check out the recent SEC filing from Aptera and the fact that they just took in a major VC investment. Aptera has plenty of funds to see them to production and a remarkably low cash burn rate. The chances of Aptera succeeding have steadily increased and people who do their due diligence are recognizing it.
    1
  1180.  @skebokvarnsv  And that company was liquidated in 2011 and all its assets sold off. A Chinese company acquired most of it. Chris and Steve repurchased the rights in 2019 and restarted the company with a completely new design.
    1
  1181.  @aussieideasman8498  Lol! Upvoted so more people will see your nonsense and remember it. Of course it works.
    1
  1182.  @aussieideasman8498  How does a Ponzi scheme work when the pre-order holders all got their money back? The fact that both founders were able to start new companies, including a successful public one shows your lie.
    1
  1183.  @aussieideasman8498  The design the Chinese purchased has very little to do with the present Aptera design that was only begun in 2019. The present one not only works but has exhilarating performance, both in straight line acceleration and in curves. It also handles speed bumps well. I know this because both my wife and I have ridden in the Luna prototype. You have seen video, Your claims that it doesn't work are more than baseless - they are delusional.
    1
  1184.  @aussieideasman8498  First of all, anyone who has done due diligence knows that pre-IPO investments are very risky and if your hypothetical were to occur (It won't - for many reasons) there would be no return. This fact is true of any early stage investment and has nothing whatsoever to due with your "Ponzi scheme" buzz word. As far as the current valuation of Aptera as a company it is around $500 million, and continuing to increase at a good pace, which you would know if you did any research.
    1
  1185. The Aptera vehicles will still gain range about 3 times faster than a Tesla when plugged into a power source and cost 1/3 to run.. The efficiency advantage is still there even if you have to plug it in more often than those who can take advantage of the solar boost.
    1
  1186.  @georgespalding7640  Good point. The technical capability is not going to override local law.
    1
  1187. It will be crash tested to automotive standards, and the ratings will be published. It is designed to do well.
    1
  1188. This one has 32 ft of cargo space.
    1
  1189. I was SHOCKed when I rode a prototype! AWD is considerably faster out the gate than the Tesla Roadster was unless they broke the transmission. People won't understand how much fun these are until they experience them in person.
    1
  1190. some functions, such as adjusting the louvers for the air vents, will be done manually with levers. There will also be a control stalk.
    1
  1191. You are looking at a prototype with a vacuum resin infusion body. Production vehicles will be produced from carbon fiber and SMC glued together bodies with far greater precision of fit and finish.
    1
  1192. Perhaps by end of next Summer if all goes well - not a given.
    1
  1193. Remember that the ultra high efficiency of the Aptera is still paying off, even if solar isn't used at all. Those who don't need it don't have to pay the $900 it will cost, but there are few that wouldn't see a payback over the life of the car.
    1
  1194. Full solar is 700 watts peak.
    1
  1195. It should be good down to at least -20 F. It has superior traction control, especially in the AWD models. They can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel. I will report on my experience in Iowa.
    1
  1196. The wheel pants rise with the tire - unlike the front air dam on many small cars.
    1
  1197. Depends on the country. In the US it will be a motorcycle or autocycle voluntarily tested to automotive safety standards.
    1
  1198. HA! It will gain about 3 times the range per hour of charging time as other UK EVs.
    1
  1199. The first part of your advice is spot on, but this car gains range about 3 times faster than any other EV using the same charging source.
    1
  1200. My pocket book will feel the difference. That is a primary concern for many of us.
    1
  1201. No it hasn't. Aptera Corp was founded in 2019 and started their design then. Perhaps you are confusing them with the Aptera, Inc. that was founded in 2005 as a parnership with Idealab. Different company, different CEO and completely different vehicle. That company kicked out the original founders in 2009, and liquidated in 2011. The new vehicle uses so little power - 2.5 times less than the Tesla Model 3 for the same EPA range, that even the 4000 or so watt hours that the panels can provide in the American Southwest can provide a significant contribution. In fact even in Iowa, I can probably meet my daily driving needs from the lower solar insolation we get here.
    1
  1202.  @runcycleskixc  This is easy to research. The Aptera full solar covers around 3m^2 and produces around 700 watts peak. Or over 40 miles of range in the Southwest. (we will know more exactly once the PI vehicles in production now are validated) I live in Iowa, where I will likely only get 1/2 the distance, but since I live in a small town, I am likely to meet most of my driving needs from solar alone much of the year, including an occasional round trip to Des Moines or Kansas City. By the way, it is the potential customers who have signed up for the now many more than 40K pre-orders. Aptera has had to make a major design change to meet the unexpectedly large demand, and has responded wonderfully. No failures here.
    1
  1203.  @runcycleskixc  Every watt/hr. the Aptera produces is one that doesn't have to be sourced from the grid - a huge cumulative social benefit. The price target originally announced for the 250 mile version was $25,900. It remains to be seen where they end up, but battery costs have been dropping and the new production design will require far less labor and produce less waste, while vastly increasing the quality over the original vacuum resin infusion design. It will be interesting to see where they land on price, but the vehicle that will be delivered will be vastly superior to what was originally foreseen.
    1
  1204.  @runcycleskixc  I certainly understand your thinking. Aptera was looking into using hemp fiber for bodies initially, so they concure. The carbon fiber/SMC that Aptera will be using has the advantage that the amount of scrap is much smaller than with vacuum resin infusion, and it produces a more precisely fitting and stranger part. In addition, the carbon fiber is produced from polyacrylonitrile and coal pitch, and what scrap there is can be recycled multiple times.
    1
  1205. Even if you don't own one, it will improve the environment you live in.
    1
  1206. Unlike Tesla, the Aptera body has a foam sandwich with a high r value, so the heat load it has to deal with is much less.
    1
  1207. The answer is yes. I won't change from my white. I want to be seen at night and I was already run down from behind driving a Gen 1 Honda Insight by a large car that "didn't see me"
    1
  1208. Elio was a poor copy of the first Aptera.
    1
  1209. Both my wife and I rode over sharp speed bumps in a prototype. The wheels rise with the tires on a speed bump and don't scrape like the low front air dams on many small cars.
    1
  1210. That probably won't be the only way to do it.
    1
  1211. I am ordering mine for use on gravel roads in rural Iowa. I will report on my experience, year round.
    1
  1212. You might want to look at the actual history of both founders. The original Aptera Inc. only failed years after their partner, Idealab, appointed a Detroit CEO who organized their dismissal from the board in 2009, and couldn't fund his new, very different program. He paid back the pre-order deposits, paid off the vendors, and liquidated the company in 2011. Nothing scummy about Steve and Chris. They both founded new successful companies in new fields. Chris co-founded and took his new company public as CEO- one which has already made me a lot of money. Aptera is in far better financial shape right now than Tesla was at the same stage in 2008. Do some due diligence. That doesn't mean there is no risk. No one should invest money that they can't afford to lose, but if the vehicle could serve your needs, placing a pre-order is almost risk free.
    1
  1213. Aussie Ideas man will be at the back of the line, but will enjoy his vehicle immensely when he gets it.
    1
  1214. This is not that.
    1
  1215.  @justinwideman3471  To make this claim you have to ignore why this is unlike any other trike, designed with extreme stability. This comes from an unparalleled 77" front track, stability in side winds of 110 mph, and a extremely low center of gravity due not only to the battery weight carried down low, but wheel motors with their center of gravity at axle level. All of these design features will result in extraordinary performance. In addition, Aptera will be crash tested to automotive crash safety ratings. This vehicle only "sucks" if you ignore how it is designed to perform.
    1
  1216. Big news coming next week (today is August 5th), as the Aptera gamma will be introduced. This will be the last prototype before the production delta models scheduled for December.
    1
  1217. Aptera is not a "normal" car and has steering modes that are unlike others on the road. You might want to wait to see what they will be able to do with it.
    1
  1218. To be fair $25,900 before incentives gets you a 250 mile range vehicle. You have overlooked the contribution that EVs with V2G tech can make in taking peak load OFF the grid. This isn't counting the contribution of the built in solar. I live in Iowa and i expect to be getting about 20 miles of additional range per day from solar alone. The only time I will ever need to plug in will be on long trips.
    1
  1219.  @MissMarinaCapri  if you mean Chris Anthony he has delivered thousands of well regarded wake borderline boats, and now in his public company selling lithium battery pack conversation to industrial equipment operations. No schemes. The referral program is a copy of Tesla's.
    1
  1220. This is a vacuum resin infusion prototype with no sound deadening. Production vehicles will be much tighter tolerance pressed carbon fiber and SMC with additional sound insulation.
    1
  1221. Didn't isn't the same as "can't"
    1
  1222.  @sandervanderkammen9230  Both CEOs have founded and run successful businesses. Steve was a major supplier to Whole foods. Chris took his last company public as CEO and it is rated a BUY by every analyst following it . Delta Airlines is a major customer. Sander has never heard of due diligence, and wouldn't know where to start if he had...
    1
  1223. Yes. Hood, dash, roof, and rear deck.
    1
  1224.  @ps.2  The premium for full solar, which gives around 4 kWh or better in sunny locations is only $900, and less than 10 lbs of weight, so yes, it is worth it.
    1
  1225. There are already orders from Europe, but the width could be an issue.
    1
  1226. The batteries for the first models use NMC chemistry.. The hub motors have several levels of regenerative braking available. Future models may introduce new control software that could provide differential steering.
    1
  1227. I will take delivery of an LE model in Iowa next year and report on my year' round experience. There are many reasons I think it will be better than my present car, but we will see.
    1
  1228.  @robertl4209  You too! I have around 1/2 a million miles on 2 wheels, so I learned to be very predictive regarding what other drivers might do. You could place a refundable pre-order for $100 ( or $70 with a discount code that you can get from current reservation holders - including my youtube channel) to get your foot in the door and make a final decision once real life performance in winter conditions is fully known.
    1
  1229. ​ @mbox314 different vehicle and company with different management. Both Steve and Chris have run successful companies since. Chris took a lithium battery company public as CEO.
    1
  1230. Yes. Depending on the state in the US it will be registered as a motorcycle or autocycle.
    1
  1231.  @fg3554  I will report on my experience i Iowa. Since the traction control can sense wheel slip and adjust torque every 2.5" of tread travel, it will probably do well in snow with the proper tires.
    1
  1232. No, not borrowed from Tesla - sourced from some of the same suppliers. there are some Mercedes cars with some of these same parts, too. Aptera has some very interesting IP in the HVAC systems. The Robin in the Top Gear videos was rigged to do that. None the less, I think you will be surprised at the skid pad results when they are published. This car has a wider track, a lower center of gravity, and better traction control than any other 3 wheeler and most 4 wheelers. It will surely be more stable than any SUV.
    1
  1233.  @vic321344  What does "fully heat up" even mean? The windows will be treated to reject radiant heat and the rear window of the full solar models will be fully covered in solar cells. You don't even do the most basic research into the information available to you and everyone else.
    1
  1234. Some of your comments indicate that you haven't paid any attention to what this car offers. It is not aimed at families with children. It is very much a niche car. But with over 11,000 pre-orders we already know that they demand is sufficient for Aptera to be successful. The build technology is even more revolutionary and likely to have an even greater benefit to the industry at large.
    1
  1235. Final testing has not yet happened. Expect numbers after they have the work complete on this.
    1
  1236. Perhaps your sense of value is skewed.
    1
  1237.  @roymaitland6345  A long time ago.
    1
  1238. It is unlikely because the cover-up of the environmental damage this alliance has been doing is no longer as successful as it has been for at least half a century. And once people start discovering in person how much FUN these are, nothing will stop it.
    1
  1239. That figure comes from the 100 watt hours per mile used at EPA highway cycle speeds which go up to 67 mph, but average around 48-50 mph.
    1
  1240. That will come before production begins.
    1
  1241. They would not have produced tooling costing millions if that were the case... Inform yourself.
    1
  1242. The 2 seat Aptera will pass automotive crash safety standards.
    1
  1243. They have published range chart that accounts for location and season on their web site.
    1
  1244. More like utopian.
    1
  1245.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Luck won't be needed. The engineering will be revealed in another video soon.
    1
  1246.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Why wait?
    1
  1247.  @bluetoad2668  Pity you make comments with no information behind them.
    1
  1248.  @Okurkaarrgghh  The lack of self awareness is obvious to all of us.
    1
  1249.  @jonathanfields4ever  Any early stage business is risky, for sure. I do too. I no longer have the doubts I once did, however. We consumers have spoken with well over 45,000 deposits. There is far more passionate interest in Aptera than there was for Tesla's first car, for good reason.
    1
  1250.  @bubblefoil  While the body has a carbon fiber tub, most of the body parts are SMC, which can easily be fixed or replaced.
    1
  1251.  @Mrbfgray  That possibility was very likely at one time, but now that the body molds have all been finished and are producing validated parts, and the manufacturing data control system is in place and being tested, that possibility has become quite small.
    1
  1252.  @drill_fiend1097  Aptera is not "delaying". They are responding to reasonable action adjusting to both demand and funding levels - and doing a better job of it than Tesla did starting out, or many other companies. The care they are taking is WHY the need to be taken seriously. I can say this having worked as a supplier to many startup and established companies.
    1
  1253.  @Okurkaarrgghh  In most cases, all that will be needed is a plug kit and DC inflator.
    1
  1254. What there has been no mention of so far is the spreading of mercury over the landscape that burning coal causes. Mercury is a nerve poison, and like leaded gas, causes harm where people are unaware of the cause. There is a general increase in nervousness and anxiety in the exposed population.
    1
  1255. Correct. Batteries in the required form factor on on the drawing boards, but don't exist yet.
    1
  1256. The Aptera panels are rated at a peak of 750 watts. They probably produce somewhere around 4 to 4.4 kWh per day in sunny climes.
    1
  1257. There will be a cargo net that can be hooked in place.
    1
  1258. Depending on Covid and likely supplier issues, as early as the third quarter, although I personally expect it will be a bit later.
    1
  1259. That is basically the condenser for a normal A/C system.
    1
  1260. Yes, this is not different than any other EV, but due to the extreme efficiency of moving the vehicle, the relative impact on range of operating the HVAC system could be greater.
    1
  1261.  @suijinnoname6412  Exactly. It can't be done.
    1
  1262. Watch the video and you won't make such silly statements. It takes a lot more work to make a vehicle so energy efficient as to make solar practical.
    1
  1263.  @SevenDeMagnus  Yes, there is nothing wrong with prayer and fasting, certainly. Hope has to have some basis, and your invoking a camara tripod indicates that you don't understand the physics involved. The center of mass in your example is vastly higher and there is no comparison in the amount of force needed, or where it could be applied where the tires wouldn't just slide. There are now over 48,000 paid pre-orders, and this is before most people have even heard of the vehicle - let alone experienced it. Once that happens, orders will explode.
    1
  1264. It is not a mass market vehicle - but it IS designed to be tested to and score well on FMVSS crash testing. It will be crash tested rated by a third party as soon as production intent vehicles are available to test.
    1
  1265. I live in Iowa and will be getting one of the first 50 production models. I will be giving reports of the performance in snow and cold weather soon after picking mine up.
    1
  1266. Even for an economy vehicle, the 4 second AWD performance is surprising and big fun.
    1
  1267. Every one who orders one going forward makes it more likely that Aptera will be able to get the funding to actually complete our cars from the first ones of us to the last. Everyone is important, including you, even if you don't realize it!
    1
  1268. I have an early preorder and hope to do quite a bit of camping. I might pick mine up at the factory and stop at Death Valley on the way home.
    1
  1269. There was some consideration of it using Peltier cells but parts availability killed it for now.
    1
  1270.  @vic321344  Aptera has a car charger that can in full sun in San Diego. You can look up the output of the cells that they are likely using and the area covered and calculate the numbers for yourself.
    1
  1271.  @vic321344  How much do you know about the Tesla Cybertruck? Do you think that they have never measured anything either? You don't know what engineers do, obviously.
    1
  1272.  @vic321344  Tesla has missed time after time on "promises". They took 6 years to do a simple EV conversion of the Lotus Elise, which they called the Roadster. The only reason they delivered then was that they got a 250 million dollar loan from the US Government - Which came after they had to lay off all their motor engineers. Of course launching one into space was a marketing stunt that delivered no value to the customers. Aptera has been much more careful with their resources, and are on track to beat the Cybertruck to market without a government bailout. As far as not any data goes, your quotes on the claims are scrambled, but there is a lot of data that would be available to you regarding Aptera performance from third parties, if you were to look. The world needs vehicles like Aptera and Tesla. At this point their offerings have very little competition with each other.
    1
  1273.  @vic321344  Look at where the money Tesla used to pay back much of that loan came from. For years, Tesla's "profits" came from carbon credits that were given to Tesla by the government. Not that this was a bad thing, but Tesla was using government (our) money to pay back the loans. The world most certainly needs a more environmentally friendly option available to us than the resource intensive and wasteful Cybertruck, especially where the use cases for both vehicles overlap, such as commuting. The difference in tooling costs is over an order of magnitude! Aptera is probably not yet to 20,000 preorders quite yet, but will surely get there, since the numbers are continuing to increase rapidly. Based on Tesla's own experience we could expect that only around 35% or so of the preorders will turn into orders for either company. Aptera's will be at least 3 or four times more beneficial to the environment than Teslas per unit delivered.
    1
  1274.  @vic321344  Why do you ignore the basic information available to you? The cost of a megapress is known, and can be compared to a 3d printed mold. Compare the weights of the respectiver vehicles. None of this is a mystery. And why overlook the point that carbon credits are handed out by the government? Whataboutism isn't a reply to my point that Tesla survived through government handouts that Aptera didn't get. You view everything with a very limited set of blinders that prevent you from seeing a complete set of facts, and causes you to miss the future. I would say that your world is the "phantasy". I have ridden in an Aptera prototype, and the performance I experienced was no 'Phantasy".
    1
  1275.  @vic321344  Surely you know that using tooling that costs many times that of what Aptera is using has an impact on costs? You surely aren't as dumb as that1 Aptera has not been in business since they restarted for the time it took Tesla to do a simple EV conversion. You can come back to that point in a couple of years, and talk about comparative deliveries. As far as the Boss Hoss goes, if you have actually ridden one, you know it is a pig in anything other than a straight line. It was even worse than my 1942 Indian was and that is saying something. But why would you compare a drag machine with a vehicle designed for maximum economy? The fact that you even make the comparison says volumes.
    1
  1276.  @vic321344  It was ready in 2009, and we know exactly why it was abandoned. Idealab hired a CEO from Detroit with automotive production experience to manage production. He didn't want to built the vehicle he was hired for and talked Google and other large investors into removing the founders from power and starting over with a more conventional design. He was unsuccessful in raising the funds to do get the new design done, and when that became clear, he liquidated the company. In those two years until liquidation, both the founders went on to do other very creative and successful projects. And my experience in Luna was both performance AND economy. I was watching the power demand on the display during the ride. You are making a habit of assuming untrue things. And you would be out of sight in my rear view mirror in 15 minutes at most if you tried to hang with me on my BMW in the Alps if you were on a BH502. That kind of ride is not what the BH502 was built for - no knock against you or your riding ability.- only your judgement.
    1
  1277. ​ @vic321344  Like many companies, Aptera is committed to continuous development, but yes, the Aptera management at the time was ready to begin production in 2009.. They made the mistake of partnering with Idealab, and that decision led to them losing control. The new CEO was unable to fund his different vision of a product - or perhaps he just wanted to extinguish something he felt was a threat to Detroit. Since the current design is a brand new one with no common parts with the original product, They will not need 13 years (wherever that number comes from). This version of the company and product were begun in 2019. I am likely to be driving mine to this year.
    1
  1278.  @vic321344  There is not a single part nor even a schematic portion of the drive train in common. The two vehicles aren't even close to the same size. There is not a single part in common between the two as I said. You are a poor observer. And if you try to name even one of those "many parts" you will not find a single one - even the tires are different.
    1
  1279.  @vic321344  Aptera, unlike Tesla, answers emails, even when their staff sometimes stays up much of the night to do it. I don't think you have ever asked them. Besides they have already publicly stated that it is different and gone into detail about what many of those differences are. You are correct that they are not as far along as they were in 2009, because then they had a production ready prototype, and that is not yet the case for this design which is far more capable and ambitious than that one was..
    1
  1280.  @vic321344  You were just complaining about Aptera not answering questions you never asked. I suggest your nonsense is even less relevant. Chinese companies? Next you will be praising Russian ones. It is amazing what can be done for a short time with slaves.
    1
  1281.  @vic321344  You are the one who brought up China. Perhaps you willingly ignore the 3.8 million slaves reported there in 2018, the second highest of any country. The human condition is the most relevant issue to talk about, not the least.
    1
  1282.  @vic321344  Again, you brought up the subject of China. As far as "illegal immigrants" in the US, as you know it does not affect their humanity. It is merely a legal fiction that politicians can and do change with the stroke of a pen, and like to keep an issue for their own purposes.
    1
  1283.  @vic321344  Many of the ones I talk to already know it. You wouldn't be telling them anything new.
    1
  1284. Aptera is a niche vehicle and can only hold two people. It is not a family car. It will be safe, however.
    1
  1285. It is still far less expensive than the average EV I am on a fairly fixed income and the low cost of ownership is going to be a huge plus. The more than 8000 preorders that they already have is evidence that the niche is large enough. This is several times the number of preorders that Tesla got in 4 years.
    1
  1286. If you don't have to haul lots of heavy cargo around all the time, why would you want to spend several times the amount for the energy to go a given distance compared to Aptera. Pay attention to the Aptera crash test results when they come out. I think you will be surprised.
    1
  1287. @Richard Goldsmith Interesting how someone who believes in and promotes a "perpetual motion machine" would call anyone ignorant.
    1
  1288.  @richardgoldsmith7278  Not directed at you! Look at the thread. It is Aussie ideas man who seems to have an issue with Sandy Munro and just about everyone else he interacts with on line.
    1
  1289.  @richardgoldsmith7278  Who knows why? I often reply because I think the traffic helps the Youtube channel stats and it helps the Aptera visibility
    1
  1290. Some of the parts may come from the same 3rd party supplier.
    1
  1291. Aptera still fits in a compact parking space with room to spare. Every design makes engineering trade-offs. For most of us the HUMVEE would be a huge loser in comparison for our everyday driving needs.
    1
  1292. Will be crash tested and given a standard automotive crash safety rating.
    1
  1293. Yes, I think you are correct. They have been in discussions with several firms for quite some time, including Tesla and Comma.ai, and others. The entire solar component is light weight. Even in Iowa my savings from full solar will pay the vehicle off in less time than I have owned my current Gen 1 Honda Insight for.
    1
  1294.  @aussieideasman8498  The Aptera founders never skipped out on anything. They did lose control of their first company to a Detroit CEO appointed by Idealab and with the help of Google and some other large investors in 2009. The company wasn't liquidated until 2011 after they were long out of control. You say "do due diligence" and then you make comments that show you have done no research at all.
    1
  1295. The EV-1 was a wonderful vehicle for its time - they just never sold them. All of them were recalled and scrapped.
    1
  1296. Good for you! I got in order #42.
    1
  1297. It has a wiper under the cowel.
    1
  1298. Mashallah! Great comment.
    1
  1299. Elio was an obvious fraud from the beginning. The same due diligence that showed me that back in the day, also showed me that Aptera is for real.
    1
  1300. The prototypes are vacuum resin infusion. PI vehicles will be SMC and carbon fiber and assembled with much higher precision.
    1
  1301. The tech has changed greatly in 10 years. The new car uses less than 100 watt hours per mile at EPA highway speeds, so the 700 peak watts of the full solar is actually quite useful beyond just ventilation.
    1
  1302. Only because you were apparently too lazy to understand engineering or math in school. I feel sorry for you.
    1
  1303. No, they are not saying that. Of course YMMV. They actually publish the solar insolation charts on their web site. I live in Iowa, with about 1/2 the solar insolation of San Diego, and yet, I am still likely to meet my daily driving needs plus the occasional trip to Kansas City and Des Moines, all without plugging in. And if I need to, I can plug into a standard 11O outlet in my garage. Full solar will clearly pay the $900 option cost back for many users.
    1
  1304. Yes to all, except perhaps the radio.
    1
  1305. I hope Sono gets the funding they need to make it as well.
    1
  1306. Not the same company. The original founders were ousted by the Detroit CEO in a board coup in 2009, because he wanted to built a 4 wheel car instead. He liquidated the company in 2011 when he couldn't raise funds. They never went bankrupt.
    1
  1307.  @Okurkaarrgghh  Do your research. The original Aptera Inc. never went bankrupt. The founders were removed in a board coup in 2009, and the Detroit CEO couldn't raise funds for his 4 wheel concept, so he liquidated the company. The new Aptera Corp is a different company with a different product.
    1
  1308. I will be getting an early model in Iowa, and will report on the performance. I think it will do well in winter, for a number of reasons. Of course it won't have the solar only range it does in the summer.
    1
  1309.  @BTSflyer  Yes, you are correct about that.
    1
  1310. I will be getting an early one and report on my experience driving year round in Iowa.
    1
  1311. Even the alpha vehicles are doing better than those numbers, and there are still savings to be had. Your suggestion to combine roof top solar is a good one, and V2G will also be a big advantage for the stability of the grid, even with a relatively small number of vehicles. Because of the weight and cost of the batteries, battery swapping will not be easily achievable at first.
    1
  1312. My wife and I worried about that, but our ride in a prototype didn't confirm our fears.
    1
  1313. A nice car itself...
    1
  1314. Climate control is rated from -20 to 125 F.
    1
  1315. They tried that. This is more efficient and adds superior traction control.
    1
  1316.  @prestontucker1687  It would also be a safety issue, too. That was tried and has been abandoned. It is unlikely that your bias against wheel motors will affect actual sales.
    1
  1317. I will have an early model in Iowa.
    1
  1318. 14" opening.
    1
  1319.  @barnabasseadog7660  I hope you can!
    1
  1320. Hydrogen production kills efficiency and is much worse over all than the environmental costs of battery and solar cell production.
    1
  1321.  @beebob1279  Depending on the model, the battery-powered e-car thus achieves an efficiency of between 70 to 80 percent." The hydrogen fuel cell requires 2-3 times more energy to drive the same distance, as the overall Well-to-Wheel efficiency is from 25-35%. This is the killer.
    1
  1322.  @beebob1279  if you produce it at home it still needs to be compressed to be used.. The energy use would be massive compared to charging batteries. Of course they also have energy losses and environmental costs - just not on the same scale.
    1
  1323.  @beebob1279  Yes, and hydrogen use in the car compared to batteries us what we are discussing.
    1
  1324. As someone who has almost 1/2 million miles on motorcycles - not as bad. It will be crash tested to automotive standards and the results published.
    1
  1325. Thank you!
    1
  1326. There will likely be a homologated version for Europe. We don't yet know what the changes will be.
    1
  1327. I own a Gen 1 Honda Insight and it serves me well. But I have also ridden in an Aptera prototype. It is a much larger vehicle, will cost much less to operate, and is FAR more fun with 4 second 0-60 performance in the AWD version - hardly Honda Insight territory.
    1
  1328. Several points. Attention has been given to heat management and there is a lot of IP around it. The skin of the vehicle has much better insulation than most cars. The A/C system is focused on keeping passengers and batteries happy rather than cooling the entire structure of the car.
    1
  1329.  @toddmarshall416  This is not the case with the cells and panel design Aptera is using. It used to be the case for some earlier ones.
    1
  1330.  @aussieideasman8498  Damage to a cell destroying the output of an entire panel doesn't happen.
    1
  1331.  @aussieideasman8498  If you are asking about warranty coverage,, it will be in line with industry standards, and will be published after validation tests are complete.
    1
  1332. The Aptera founders are big fans of what Lightyear is doing, but they are coming in at much lower costs.
    1
  1333.  @jurivlk5433  Early adopters are typically around 1% of the total market. We aren't even into the beta round of the design yet. But I will be driving my own Aptera next year and I expect to see many who envy me my ownership cost and will place their own orders.
    1
  1334.  @jurivlk5433  Yes, you are right. I was aware of the Microlino, since I was a huge fan of the Isetta. I am old enough to remember when they were somewhat common in Germany and the first motorcycle I learned to ride on, an R27, had the same engine. if I were still in Europe, I would probably have been one of the preorder holders. There is no question that building a new car company is very difficult. I worked as a vendor to several of them. But look at Tesla, converting a Lotus to make an EV. Tesla had a near death experience and had to lay off all of their motor engineers. The company I worked for at the time hired them, so I saw the early Tesla days up close. They got a 250 million dollar government loan which saved them. And look at them now. I think Aptera is following their blueprint. The first Aptera was part of a startup incubator, Idealab, which asked the founders to hire a CEO from Detroit when they thought they were ready, to oversee production. Instead he decided he wanted to build a different car, staged a board coup to throw out the founders, and then liquidated the company when he tried to get a loan to design a new car. One of Aptera founders went on to found and bring a lithium battery equipment to IPO. They have experience, passion, and strategic partners, and now, also the financing.. At this point, I am reasonably sure that they will bring a quality vehicle to production. And it is not just the vehicle. They have a manufacturing method that is an order of magnitude less expensive than what Tesla is doing. I was in Kuwait for the fires, and now live in California so I am passionate about what we are doing to the environment. I think projects such as Aptera can be part of the solution and it is worth my support, even for me to take a personal risk that they might fail. And It looks like I will be driving one myself next year, which will be perfect for my needs. For me and many others, the potential reward is worth the ever diminishing risk.
    1
  1335.  @jurivlk5433  There were two reasons for it. First, decreased the Cd by over 10% by allowing the wheel pants to run in clean air. Secondly, it will allow the vehicle to corner faster while the weight shifts in turns. It could be that a different compromise could be considered for European conditions. Aptera is now planning factories in the UK and in Norway.
    1
  1336.  @jurivlk5433  the operational cost savings make a ton of sense for me and my family. At the moment I own a Chevy P30 step van, which is much wider than even the Aptera because I need that utility at the moment. In my case the compromise the Aptera engineers have made fits to a T. We can see that this is also true for thousands of others.
    1
  1337.  @Okurkaarrgghh  So, even your Google skills are faulty. Thanks for providing the evidence., My P30 is 89" wide without the mirrors. Perhaps you were looking at the inside dimensions?
    1
  1338. It will insure as an autocucle - typically less than cars, although that will change as loss experience grows.
    1
  1339.  @squirts1  Basically what I said. Several companies who already insure vehicles such as the Slingshot have already provided Aptera quotes. As far as willingness of mechanics to work on a unique vehicle, due to the right to repair policy, every independent mechanic I have asked about it around me in rural Iowa can't wait.
    1
  1340. Really different performance envelope and price points. I think there will be some overlap in market but not much.
    1
  1341. And any other production car.
    1
  1342. That is a bet you would lose if you were to compare it to any other car. Even extracting the battery materials is less damaging than the continued production of petroleum.
    1
  1343. They are potted with a shock absorbing potting compound that isolates the windings from the environment. They have been tested to withstand repeated 100,000 G shocks. The tires also provide some isolation.
    1
  1344.  @tommorgan1291  Tom, I don't know the full answer to that one, except that they are very low mass and made from carbon fiber. They should be tough.
    1
  1345.  @tommorgan1291  I am not surprised by that behavior from steel, but I suppose that would depend on the alloy and the thickness. They have been road testing and will continue to do so. That is one element of the design that is still undergoing testing and will likely have further changes for the delta models.
    1
  1346. Strange. I worked in Japan for 3 years, starting in 1975, and part of my work was at an electric vehicle company based in Kyoto.
    1
  1347. There is a lot more information available on the web and other important things like the crash test ratings will come later. These designers weren't born yesterday.
    1
  1348. It will depend on local laws. Not needed in most of the US.
    1
  1349.  @bobhilder1469  I rode in a prototype. I just backed up to the seat and sat straight down, and then swiveled my legs in. Easy-peazey.
    1
  1350. I live in Iowa and will report on my experience next year.
    1
  1351. I think the fact that they are going to crash test it in spite of no legal need to do so and the risk of a bad result is very promising.
    1
  1352. True, but they have been covered in the past, and with an EV friendly administration, there may be incentives by the time these are shipping. You can't count on it though. What you can count on are low running costs, even compared to other EVs.
    1
  1353. It drastically reduced parts counts and costs.
    1
  1354. you are correct that it is not a mass market vehicle. However, I live in Iowa, and have no worries about snow or gravel roads, based on a ride in a prototype.
    1
  1355. That was a completely different car and company. Their partners appointed a Detroit CEO who wanted to build a 4 wheel car instead and kicked out the founders in 2009. The current company, Aptera Corp. is organized so that is unlikely to happen again. The deposit is only $100 (or $70) discounted, and is held in escrow so it can be refunded at any time if your plans change.
    1
  1356.  @Okurkaarrgghh  False. However, there was a major change in the schedule when 10 times the expected number of pre-orders came in and Aptera switched from the original vacuum resin infusion body used in the prototypes, to body components produced by super car body part builder CPC. This greatly reduces the cost per part, with a large increase in the quality. First deliveries are now expected by the end of summer, depending on how the validation and funding go.
    1
  1357. My wife and I rode in a prototype and had no issues. It certainly wasn't completely representative of what the final vehicle will be like. We will reserve judgement, and report on our own experience when we take delivery.
    1
  1358. It is an upgrade to my current car in every single way. You haven't looked into it, obviously.
    1
  1359. September was never an availability date. Sandy was projecting possible deltas available for validation testing by then. Crash testing and other 3rd party validations will be done. Availability for the first shipping vehicles still depends on the test results and funding.
    1
  1360. No generator is 100% efficient. The 10% power loss (best case) will quickly drain the power used for motion and is lost as heat.
    1
  1361. Even the very first LE models will have AC.
    1
  1362. Rear view mirrors will be installed where they are legally required.
    1
  1363. The answer would depend on the size of the battery pack and the local solar insolation, but it won't take years. You can easily find the data for your location.
    1
  1364.  @ps.2  Full solar for the Aptera is only $900. Payback will be rapid for most people, depending on their power rates, but certainly over the life of the panels for almost everyone.
    1
  1365.  @mansourkhatib  Irani hastid? Kheli Khoshvatam! If your name is Arabic, Salaam! I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles - and I have ridden in an Aptera prototype. I do have some ability to compare from experience. Aptera has said that the full solar retail price is about a $900 upgrade. The environmental benefit is such that including it as standard provides a significant reduction in the social cost of the vehicle. I am going to guess that they may not offer other than full solar once they go into production. Vehicles without the solar hatch will need to be crash tested again to have the same confidence in the crash performance - even though there is no legal requirement to do so due to the classification in the US.
    1
  1366. The width of the front wheels is an engineering trade off. It is bad for city use, but it cuts the wind resistance by over 10% on the road, compared to spacing them closer by allowing the body to run in clean air. Aptera can do differential steering and tank turns, so it is very easy to park.
    1
  1367. 2025
    1
  1368. Not true. The interface was designed from the ground up by Crank Software of Canada
    1
  1369. We can see from the last SEC report that Aptera's software arm is now providing an income stream to the company. If you haven't seen it yet. there is video of the dedicated 130,000 sq ft Aptera solar panel production facility that is already in low volume production. A battery plant is also now in operation. Aptera is happening!
    1
  1370.  @Bill-Rink  Bill, which states are those?
    1
  1371. The technology is here now. It is a matter of cost.
    1
  1372.  @vic321344  It doesn't matter. Aptera has been testing these panels for years. The efficiency of the vehicle compared to the ones you mention makes all the difference.
    1
  1373. To anyone who appreciates functional form it is gorgeous. Even NASA thought so when they did wind tunnel testing on the first bodies.
    1
  1374. The very first car was a 3 wheeler.
    1
  1375. The beta model passes the Moose Test. Roush Performance designed the suspension.
    1
  1376. While Aptera is defined legally as a motorcycle or autocycle, depending on where you live, for most owners the functionality and legal requirements such as licensing and insurance will be much more car like. Your statements are about as accurate as your spelling.
    1
  1377. I don't have to "imagine" Both my wife and I have ridden a prototype that was pre-Roush suspension re-design. It even did well hitting speed bumps at speed in that state. I live in Iowa, and will be driving on gravel roads in all weather. Based on my experience, I have no worries about the performance of the production models under those conditions. When you have a chance - try one out!
    1
  1378. No.
    1
  1379.  @dr123hall  That could happen. There are always people not paying attention. I used to own and drive a stepvan that was wider than the Aptera the entire length of the vehicle and could still fit in a compact parking space (96") wide. I never got clipped in that, but it was big enough to see. I suspect that the Aptera is striking enough in appearance that people will notice it, too - perhaps more than most introverts would like.
    1
  1380. Aptera does plan a 5 passenger vehicle for their next one, but that is a while off, yet.
    1
  1381. 32 cu ft of space, and enough room to sleep a couple on camping trips.
    1
  1382.  @ghoulie11  No, there is no rear window. That space is covered by the main solar panels. There is a cargo net to prevent things shifting forward in a panic stop. Your rear view is maintained by both mirrors and cameras.
    1
  1383. Said by someone who has not been paying attention even though he has been willing to comment. Europe and Asia's prime automotive suppliers and leading engineers don't agree with you.
    1
  1384. Paul Elio stuffed the money he collected into his own pocket Aptera's funds are going into tooling, parts and IP. The first production Intent vehicles are being built now.
    1
  1385.  @JoeBManco  In Aptera's case the $100 dollar (or $70 with a discount code) are held in escrow and can be requested back at any time if you change your mind. The last company Chris Anthony co-founded, was a lithium battery company he took public as CEO. Every analyst following it rates it a buy. Their record is rather good. This not a guarantee of course, but the management is experienced and committed.
    1
  1386. Aptera as a company was formed about the same time Cybertruck was announced, and they don't have the same degree of funding.
    1
  1387. They are basically only there for legal reasons. Cameras and a display in front of the driver will provide the function.
    1
  1388. Yes. Multiple levels in the production vehicles. It isn't hooked up in the gamma prototype.
    1
  1389. You are correct. Battery costs make up much of the cost of an Aptera, or indeed any electric car. But the need for rare earth minierals is likely to plummet and there will be abundant sources opening up, such as seawater.
    1
  1390. Of course it will, and much further, depending on the speed you are willing to drive.
    1
  1391. Aptera will have very capable traction control. I plan to use mine year round in Iowa, in all weather.
    1
  1392.  @tims8603  Probably more like middle or late next year, but yes, they will be crash tested by an independent third party and will be rated very safe. (we know from virtual crash testing)
    1
  1393. Aptera has never presented this first model as anything more than a niche vehicle. Pre-orders have proven that niche to be much larger than they expected. Their SEC reports show plans for more mass market follow on vehicles, following the model of Tesla.
    1
  1394. Aptera has a tighter turning circle than a Tesla Model 3.
    1
  1395.  @NoRelationToNed  I actually would have probably preferred a variable ratio steering, but what we are getting is a direct ratio. The advantage will likely be better road feel than a steer by wire system.
    1
  1396. I will be driving an early 2 wheel drive version in snow in Iowa and will report.
    1
  1397.  @JC-cf4rs  no hint of scam from anyone associated with Aptera, and they have a track record. Chris Anthony co-founded a lithium battery company and took it public as CEO and is making investors happy in a difficult market.
    1
  1398. Except possibly for Alaska at this point the laws have changed.
    1
  1399. Did you listen? The lease is signed.
    1
  1400. A motorcycle or an autocycle, depending on your state. However, it has the functionality and safety of a car.
    1
  1401. If there is demand, Aptera will supply the cad tools for the aftermarket to supply one.
    1
  1402. The company didn't even exist in 2018. Do a bit of research before you comment.
    1
  1403. You clearly have not seen the testing that Aptera has already subjected their solar panels to. Even in the unlikely event of a solar panel failure, it will have little impact on the overall utility of the vehicle. There is little down side, and certainly not "doom".
    1
  1404. Ha! The full solar will have 180 22-23% cells for Peak 700 watt output- already under lengthy test I San Diego.
    1
  1405. This is the first prototype and the spring and rebound rates for the suspension haven't been tuned yet.
    1
  1406. The rear view camera will give good view of the area behind you, as do the side cameras (or mirror)
    1
  1407. It is true that adopting a vegan lifestyle has a tremendous positive effect on the environment, but why give up the additional benefit of driving a much quicker car that gets over 300 MPGe? This is certainly a lot more fun than a Corolla.
    1
  1408. My wife an d I have ridden in a prototype that was better than a car we used to own. There are now many videos of people riding in the gamma prototype with comments about ride quality and noise. The PI vehicles are being assembled now and will be even better. The Aptera hub motors weigh just over 50 lbs - not a huge difference to design a suspension to handle. Some steel wheels alone weigh more than that.
    1
  1409.  @craigsj  I recommend that you learn to do some math Aptera hub motors and wheels most certainly do not weigh 110 lbs. Aptera wheels are not made from steel. The handling is superior to many cars, due to the lower center of gravity, the much better traction control, and the lack of buffeting from semis and wind. Take a look at the recent Aging Wheels "Your wrong about Aptera" for a start I will be posting my experiece of an early model year round in rural Iowa.
    1
  1410.  @craigsj  You have a short memory. from your post: "Some steel wheels alone weigh more than that." The Production Intent validation vehicles are being assembled right now, and will soon be undergoing validation testing, including 3rd party crash testing and the results will be public. If you don't like what other reviewers are saying, ride in a prototype yourself. I have, as have many others. In less than a year from now, if no major issues come up during validation, there will be vehicles in customer hands. I am a small investor, but not because I expect to make a fortune.
    1
  1411. Yes, under the windshield. The seat rises as it slides forward and lowers as it slides back.
    1
  1412.  @arthouston7361  Yes, your comment here is completely correct. Notice that that is why I said they will be voluntarily tested. They are designed to car safety standards, even though they didn't "have" to be.
    1
  1413. Aptera is not a fashion design statement. It is strictly functional form.
    1
  1414. The design and company you saw in 2005 are not the same as the Aptera Corp and EV you see today. This company and design began in 2019.
    1
  1415.  @piccalillipit9211  I like the Nobe design, but it won't be nearly as safe to drive, or have the same performance.
    1
  1416.  @glennv3176  Of course it works at night. It can be recharged at any NACS charging station or gain 13 miles per hour of range plugged into a 110 vac outlet.
    1
  1417. Aptera Corp and the design of this vehicle were only started in 2019. However the rest of your comments are spot on. I have ridden in an Aptera prototype. The AWD launch editions will achieve in the neighborhood of 4 second 0-60 times with a 400 mile EPA range. They are truly fun!
    1
  1418.  @NP-co7kj  this is easy to research. The automotive X-prize competition was held in 2010, after Steve and Chris had already left the company. The Aptera Inc. entry dropped out after 30 laps. The vehicle that was designed in 2019 uses wheel motors and has a drive train nothing like the earlier vehicle.
    1
  1419.  @NP-co7kj  You must think that two twins are the same person. Get a clue! There have been several vehicles shaped like Aptera that had nothing to do with the founders of either company. The body design was created by A. Morelli in 1982, and the shape has been used by a number of different builders. There is not a single part of the present Aptera in common with the original design, nor size, nor drive train concept. Aptera Corp. and the former Aptera, Inc. were legally different companies with different corporate structures. The fact that you think they are the same thing is not hilarious - it is really sad.
    1
  1420.  @NP-co7kj  You have already told us that an Aptera competed for the X prize after Aptera Inc., which built that vehicle had closed. You don't seem to be able to do proper research. The present vehicle is being designed and built by Aptera Corp. - a different company. The vehicle design is completely different. This one is a pure electric vehicle with a wheel motor drive train. It does NOT look identical to an engineer. The goal of reducing power waste from air resistance and other sources is common to several automotive designers.
    1
  1421.  @NP-co7kj  I suggest you look into the history of the founders for the answers to your questions. It is clear you haven't. Anybody can see you have been quoting a false time line regarding the history.
    1
  1422.  @NP-co7kj  Did you forget what you wrote? "No, it was in the first X-Prize in 2011 and was around in 2009." What is your point? It is not clear to me at all. However, let me apologize for my tone. I wasn't in a great frame of mind, i guess. Let me respond to what is really important: Merry Christmas to you and your family!
    1
  1423.  @NP-co7kj  Who cares about the truth? I do. You don't seem to. Thanks for letting us all know.
    1
  1424.  @theadventuresofbrockinthai4325  No, you don't get it at all. Depending on the battery you order, you can drive for 250 to 1000 miles under EPA Highway mile test conditions without needing a recharge before the solar input is even considered. You can gain 13 miles of range per hour plugged into a 110 volt 15 amp standard household plug. A 50 kW DC charging station will give you 500 miles of range per hour.
    1
  1425. Good to see a fellow Paradigm reservation holder here.
    1
  1426. Aptera grants right to repair. The repair documents will be available for free to everyone. Service of tires and brakes will be just like any other vehicle, as long as they follow the lift instructions. Aptera is aiming for 24 hour turnaround on parts shipments and will have traveling repair teams, especially for warranty work.
    1
  1427. I live in rural Iowa, and because Aptera is right to repair, my local independent shops are already eager to work on it. Where I live, since the wheel covers rise with the wheel, there is less interference than with the low front air dams on many Japanese cars.
    1
  1428. I will be driving my AWD model in Iowa and will be reporting on the performance. The traction control system makes me think that it will be rather good with snow tires compared to other similar sized vehicles.
    1
  1429. I will be driving mine year 'round in Iowa, and report. The ABS/Traction control is superior.
    1
  1430. Probably by the beginning of 2025. There will be on line training and repair videos.
    1
  1431. Not sure what the question is. As long as the panels get some sun, they can charge the batteries.
    1
  1432. They do. Tesla even has it. Aptera will have a pet mode.
    1
  1433.  @aussieideasman8498  They folded the first time because Idealab hired a CEO who didn't want to do the job he was hired to do, and managed to convince Google and other large investors to remove the founders from control. This time the company is structured in a way that makes that unlikely and we have the history of Chris co-founding and taking another successful company public, so he seems to have learned something in the process. People with far more automotive industry cred that you certainly think so.
    1
  1434. It will be crash tested to FMVSS part 200 safety standards - the same ones cars are tested to- and the results will be published. FWI, Carbon fiber and SMC make up most of the body - among the strongest materials available.
    1
  1435.  @IHateThisHandleSystem  "when there are only 50 lbs of it making up the car," - of course, when you make faulty assumptions, you reach faulty conclusions. There will be plenty of information coming out, including the crash test ratings, that will show you how misinformed you are.
    1
  1436. It is made of SMC and carbon fiber in the production versions. It has larger crumple zones than many cars and airbags. It will be 3rd party crash tested to automotive standards and the results publicly shared. An accident at 100 mph is probably not survivable in most caases.
    1
  1437. The cost is likely to be prohibitive - sadly. This is something that we as Americans need to get changed.
    1
  1438. What makes you say that? I intend to drive mine in Iowa year 'round. You know that you can gain 130 miles overnight by plugging into a standard 115 volt AC outlet, don't you?
    1
  1439.  @AdamsLab  Oregon Coast conditions aren't Southern California where most of the early buyers are located. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the performance of the Maxeon cells that Aptera is using. It is the area where Aptera has the most IP, that still needs protection. We will be finding out more details with the 3rd party validation work on the validation models that will be on the road soon.
    1
  1440.  @AdamsLab  Perhaps you didn't notice that I will be driving one of the first of the vehicles year 'round in Iowa.
    1
  1441. Only because you don't understand aerodynamics. There are no flat surfaces for the wind to exert pressure on. At speed there is downforce built into the design.
    1
  1442. Crash tests to automotive standards will take place and the results published when they have production ready cars available to test in a few months.
    1
  1443. Aptera is a right to repair company so they will provide all the information that someone who wanted to do this might require. However, that begs the question of why?
    1
  1444. Yes.
    1
  1445. This will depend greatly on the solar insolation at your location and which size battery pack you have. Another way to think of charging time would be 13 miles per hour of range gain plugged into a 115 VAC outlet.
    1
  1446. I have ridden in one. Both my wife and I were worried about that, but it turns out not to be an issue.
    1
  1447.  @rodshop5897  The only person who can say this is someone who hasn't looked closely at either the companies or the products.
    1
  1448. LOL, your lack of reason is showing.
    1
  1449.  @6.5x55  I don't know the answers to all of these questions yet, and wouldn't expect to. We don't know these details from a single other manufacturer at the same stage including the Telsa Cybertruck (which started development about the same time).. The fact that this will be taking place on a voluntary basis when it isn't required should be significant.
    1
  1450.  @6.5x55  What part of my statement are you calling untrue? There are no ratings yet for the Tesla Cybertruck. Testing requires the existance of production intent samples to test.
    1
  1451. Three wheels is not just to improve aerodynamics. It also lowers, cost, weight, and rolling resistance. A prototype passed the Moose test.
    1
  1452. They already have the 2 or three motor choice. A single motor would eliminate differential steering.
    1
  1453. Once you see the crash testing results you won't think so...
    1
  1454. You will get about 2.5 times the distance of a Tesla model 3 for the same amount of power if you plug it in. Perhaps you are overlooking what the efficiency does for you. The first model will have 400 mile range at EPA speeds.
    1
  1455.  @shrimptopian3392  You could get a bicycle for even less and have almost as good a performance. You need to look at the details a bit more closely, especially once the crash test validation work is done. This comment will not age well at all.
    1
  1456.  @aussieideasman8498  You need to take the scales from your eyes. There will be third party reports once they start shipping production vehicles. No-one publishes final weights in the prototype phase where Aptera is now.
    1
  1457. Aptera's second vehicle is likely to be a 5 passenger, 4 wheel car. They will talk more about it when they go public.
    1
  1458. Body tooling is now finished and the Production Intent vehicles will start validation testing in the first quarter.
    1
  1459. The irony is that this vehicle will not be turning our atmosphere into a gas chamber like most of our current ones do.
    1
  1460. ​ @rogergeyer9851 It is pretty clear you aren't experienced with the process of creating FDA validation packages. Once one has been approved most companies with similar products under development chose to use the same measurement models, industry wide.
    1
  1461. I live in Iowa, and my daily needs are still likely to be covered by solar. If I ever have to plug it in, 62% of our grid power comes from wind.
    1
  1462. The second Aptera vehicle is likely to be a 4 wheel 5 seater. This vehicle already has around 20 times the number of pre-orders the founders originally expected.
    1
  1463. The production units will have much tighter assembly tolerances plus sound deadening. Both heat and AC will be standard.
    1
  1464. Remember that with only wheels and a Cd of less than 0.13, an Aptera has far lower power requirements than those vehicles - less than 100 watt hours per mile at EPA Highway cycle speeds.
    1
  1465. Factor in the cost of ownership per month.
    1
  1466. I own a Gen 1 Honda Insight in real life. My wife and I have ridden in an Aptera prototype and it promises to exceed our Honda in just about every single performance measure. We will report on our real life experience in the Aptera - perhaps as early as this time next year.
    1
  1467. Aptera will have a control stock and some buttons on the yoke, plus manual air vent direction controls.
    1
  1468. Yes.
    1
  1469. The beta model already passes the Moose Test.
    1
  1470.  @kkobayashi1  Ken, crash tests were done on the previous model and they got excellent results. This has been greatly improved in several respects since then.
    1
  1471. Aptera Corp. was founded in 2019, and the drive layout has been the same since the beginning. What has changed was the original plan to use vacuum resin infusion production for the body. When reservations unexpectedly made the production volume necessary exceed the capacity that could reasonably be produced that way, the vehicle was redesigned for SMC and carbon fiber production at CPC in Italy. The tools have all been finished and are producing validated parts. They still have to assemble the Production Intent vehicles and do the validation testing. Deliveries are likely to start at the end of next year, or in early 2025. You seem to be confusing Aptera Corp with the earlier Aptera Inc. which was a completely different company that was a joint venture with Idealab. They hired a CEO from Detroit who didn't want to build the vehicle he was hired for, and managed to eject the original founders in 2009. He couldn't raise funding for his different plans and oversaw an orderly voluntary liquidation of the company in 2011. You need to do some due diligence before mis-representing the history. They went on to found other successful companies.
    1
  1472.  @OCofthe3  They are not only legally different, the structure is different and there is not a single part, dimension, or even drive train concept in common with the original vehicle plan. It is not a "continuation" as you say. The original Aptera Inc. was a joint venture with Idealab, and it failed because the Idealab appointed Detroit CEO kicked out Steve and Chris in 2009, and it was his changed direction that failed. By the way, I have already made a lot of money in the company Chris Anthony co-founded and took public as CEO after he left Aptera Inc. and before he started Aptera Corp in 2019.
    1
  1473. The panels Aptera is using are 22-23% efficient. It is quite possible that in a few years even more efficient panels will be available a lower prices.
    1
  1474. I would be interested in which model, and what the cost per mile is to drive it?
    1
  1475. At the very least it can do that, including A/C, with little impact on range.
    1
  1476. So that the bottom part could roll down without destroying the aerodynamics.
    1
  1477. Far less consequential than an accident on a motorcycle - and I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles.
    1
  1478. I think we will see a huge aftermarket mod underground develop for this vehicle, even though most "appearance" mods won't be my thing.
    1
  1479. I plan to drive mine year round in rural Iowa, and will report on the performance when the time comes.
    1
  1480. There is a slow rate of degradation. With a vehicle life of perhaps 40 years and the technical advances likely over that time it makes sense that Aptera has designed the solar panels to be replaceable to be able to repair damage or take advantage of significant technical advance.
    1
  1481. In many areas you will gain around 11,000 miles per year of cost free travel. Energy costs vary widely, so this calculation will need to be done for a specific location.
    1
  1482.  @electrospank  As I hinted earlier, the amount of power gained and the cost of that power will vary widely depending on location. The average residential customer pays 13.31 cents per kWh. with 1460 KWh collected in an year in sunny locations. The payback, assuming that you never charge at more expensive road side charging stations, will be about 4 years to pay for the cost of full solar.
    1
  1483. It can be plugged into a 230 volt outlet and will gain around 30 miles of range per hour. The other voltages may depend on configurations of the car that are still being engineered. The top speed is RPM limited to 110 mph. In 110 degree F weather and up a 6% grade, the speed may have to be dialed back to to cooling limits. This won't be a factor in cooler weather. The torque will allow 0-60 times of 3.5 seconds for the heaviest 30 motor version and 5.5 seconds for the two motor versions. It is available with a Level II OTA camera based Safety Pilot that is a $1,300 option. It will meet all automotive safety standards in this regard. It will be crash tested to full automotive safety standards and is likely to do very well. Ratings will be published after pre production versions are available to test later in the year. It is not sold as a kit at this point. There are preorders from many parts of the world. International deliveries won't start until sometime in 2022.
    1
  1484. I live in Iowa and will be getting an early model. The traction control can sense wheel slip and adjust torque about every 2.5" of tread travel. I think with proper tires it will be fine. I will report on my experience.
    1
  1485. None of us wish to get into an accident - however the vehicle has air bags and will be crash tested. It has larger than normal crumple zones and a passenger safety cage.
    1
  1486. At present Aptera Motors is the gold standard for lean design.
    1
  1487.  @Okurkaarrgghh  There are plenty of vehicles on UK roads at present that are wider than Aptera. They have homologation experts at work on this issue, and there are several potential paths to get there.
    1
  1488. Aptera also is much more efficient that the Model 3 in its use of that power. The cost to own and drive is several times less, and the vehicle is likely to have a longer service life.
    1
  1489. Jim your numbers are incorrect Even in Iowa, not exactly the middle of the sun belt, I am likely to get an average of 20 miles per day, enough to amortize the cost in around 4 years and remove the burden from both both my monthly running costs and the grid. - a big win!
    1
  1490. Some oil is used in producing them, but after that there is a continuing carbon free production of energy for many years.
    1
  1491.  @Tore_Lund  Thanks, Tore. @Steven Storer needs to see this. Of course there are many ways we can slice this question, but EVs will always come out ahead of ICE vehicles by a considerable margin. There are some Oil Industry astroturf organizations that are trying to promote white papers that pretend to show something different. They are using Big Tobacco as a model to deny the evidence, and their scientists knew the truth more than 50 years ago.
    1
  1492. Aptera offers right to repair, and even here in Iowa, I have independent shops that can't wait to work on it. I bet this is true where you live too, if you aren't handy yourself.
    1
  1493.  @FutureAzA  Exactly. Which is one reason due diligence is important.
    1
  1494. It is being classed as a motorcycle for this purpose.
    1
  1495. It will be registered as an autocycle or motorcycle. Yes, it will have a plate on the back.
    1
  1496. There are still some manual controls such as the PRNDL buttons and the HVAC vent controls, and some others.
    1
  1497. Aptera's second planned vehicle will likely be a 5 seat, 4 wheel vehicle. they talk about this in their SEC reports. You may be hearing more when Aptera plans to go public, once this first vehicle is launched.
    1
  1498. Custom vinyl wraps are available for any color or pattern you wish.
    1
  1499. Depending on how long you plan to keep the house, upgraded insulation, solar and more efficient climate control are all low hanging fruit. If V2G becomes available in your area, you can use your car battery to help support the grid without paying for another Powerwall like device.
    1
  1500. It depends on where you live. It equals or exceeds the practical performance of my present car in every respect.
    1
  1501. Probably no worse than all the ICE vehicles stopped because they ran out of fuel. And unlike ICE, during the day they can gain range just sitting there.
    1
  1502.  @steann1  ??? You don't seem to have thought about your comment before you sent it.
    1
  1503.  @steann1  Few cues in print...This is why the /s tag was invented.
    1
  1504. You do know that a black panel is the most efficient heat radiator , don't you? Think about it. They will have far more surface area available to reject heat. I don't have the numbers to crunch, but I designed a samples freezer for the ISS and know something about this. It is certainly possible.
    1
  1505.  @edc1569  The side under the car should almost always be in relative shade, but you are right. I suspect when supplier NDAs expire we will know a lot more.
    1
  1506. Silly to make your mind up on ridiculous false assumptions.
    1
  1507. There will be an off road version that might solve your main issue in the future. I will be driving an early model in Iowa and report on its performance in snow and on gravel roads.
    1
  1508. Prices start at $25,900 for a 250 mile EPA rated vehicle.
    1
  1509. Geographic boundaries are completely imaginary which people are beginning to realize. Bad decisions anywhere affect all of us, and the same is true for good decision making.
    1
  1510. I plan to use mine year round in Iowa, and will report on my experience in detail. The Aptera HVAC system can be used to assist battery pack temp management. 2170 NMC 811 chemistry batteries are much more cold tolerant than LIFe battery packs.
    1
  1511. I replaced mine with a better aftermarket set and paid about 2K - well worth it.
    1
  1512. You know it isn't an either/or choice, don't you?
    1
  1513. Nothing about Aptera is a fashion statement. It is pure form follows function.
    1
  1514. To be fair, $25,900 was their base price target. There are no plans for dealers at this point at all. The first several thousand vehicles will be picked up by their buyers directly from the factory in California. I plan to come from Iowa to get mine in person.
    1
  1515. No you haven't Aptera Corp was founded in 2019.
    1
  1516. Thorium was considered so dangerous that it was eventually dropped from camera lenses, even though the amount of radiation they gave off was far less than would be generated if it was used as a power source. It just requires too much overhead to compete against renewables.
    1
  1517. What was your main objection?
    1
  1518. Both my wife and I were very fortunate to have rides in one. She was immediately sold.
    1
  1519.  @Xerrea  Aptera holds all of the deposit money in escrow.
    1
  1520.  @leneanderthalien  Lets see what homologation creates.
    1
  1521. The aerodynamics, low rolling resistance and motor/battery efficiency all contribute with the ratio depending on on the speed of the vehicle.
    1
  1522. Yes they are. But components, such as the glass layer are coming from other places. They have posted video of shooting ice balls at the glass sandwich panels and they are tougher and less scratch prone than the previous plastic covered design. The manufacturing line is in the Carlsbad factory where the vacuum resin infusion molds for the body parts were going to be. This is why they no longer needed the separate solar facility.
    1
  1523. You will be making that sound yourself when you experience the acceleration first hand!
    1
  1524. The Aptera body has a foam filled shell that has a high r value, unlike a typical steel car.
    1
  1525. Both my wife and I have ridden in an early prototype and that wasn't even true of that early edition.
    1
  1526.  @sandervanderkammen9230  Every one of these claims can be shown to be false with a little research. First of all this particular vehicle and company only began in 2019, and was redesigned in 2022 for mass production when orders climbed into the tens of thousands. I have ridden in an early prototype. The "absolutely nothing" claim is without any merit.
    1
  1527.  @sandervanderkammen9230  My vehicle will be produced after the PI vehicles are validated and LE production has begun. The quality compared to the original plan for vacuum resin infusion bodies has improved greatly. Pay attention if you have any interest.
    1
  1528.  @sandervanderkammen9230  First of all, anyone who looks at my channel knows that I disclose that I am an Aptera Ambassador. I got a hat and a water bottle. and some stickers. I get no other financial compensation other than a possible eventual referral fee open to every other Aptera order holder - not just Ambassadors. You have been told this before, but continue to lie about it as with everything else Aptera related. Why is that?
    1
  1529. That doesn't mean the Aptera will not be tested to and pass the FMVSS Part 200 crash tests - it will. Motorcycles don't need airbags, either, and yet Aptera has them.
    1
  1530. If Segway had been available at 1/10th the price there could have been a place for it. Unfortunately, battery costs were way too high for the utility it could offer most people who had other alternatives.
    1
  1531.  @TankUni  They sold 140,000 of them at over $5,000 each. If the price were right, there would be a larger market.
    1
  1532. You will like the answers when you find out. In most cases you will just pull out the nail or screw with a pair of pliers or vicegrips, plug the hole with a plug kit, and re- inflate with a DC inflator. If you need to, just remove the wheel from the wheel motor as if it were a brake drum and take it to almost any shop. The 16" wheel and tire are standard and light weight.
    1
  1533. I live in Iowa, and will be getting an early model. I will report on my experience.
    1
  1534. Both companies - and others- use the same suppliers.
    1
  1535. The company and design only started in 2019. There have been previous vehicles with similar ideas behind them by ideas such as the previous Aptera Inc. (a different company), BMW, and Honda The Aptera Corp vehicle tech is new. The entire drive train is completely different.
    1
  1536. Ride in one before you decide..... I have.
    1
  1537. ​ @niftytheviking I like to make up my mind on actual evidence. I was surprised when I rode in a prototype, but I won't decide until I experience a production model.
    1
  1538.  @niftytheviking  This just shows you are making up your mind without actually understanding the design. The Aptera side window is not divided in half. There is video of an Aptera at the drive through getting an order with no difficulty. You are making a decision based on a false assumption.
    1
  1539.  @charlesbeane8795  Aptera not only has made working glass covered solar panels, but they hold a granted patent on it and commissioned the equipment which happened to be built in AZ at a facility I am personally familiar with. The front nose panel on the vehicle you saw driving is glass. Yes, all the panels are functional.
    1
  1540.  @aussieideasman8498  You don't get vehicle without prototypes - Why do you continue to make non-sense comment. Aptera Corp wasn't even founded until 2019, although they did buy IP from an earlier company.
    1
  1541.  @aussieideasman8498  You are the guy who also believes a perpetual motion machine is possible and tried to build one - why should we trust your engineering understanding ahead of anyone else?
    1
  1542. Vic is correct. Toyota has made a major blunder that even many of their own engineers are aware of.
    1
  1543. The 100 watt hours per mile number is for the EPA highway cycle and the heaviest version of Aptera. The alpha cars have been doing better than that.
    1
  1544. This particular design began in 2019 with a wheel motor drive train and solar panels. Friction points were eliminated where ever possible to make as much use of the available power as they could.
    1
  1545.  @markplott4820  it is far more stable than almost any SUV.
    1
  1546. Look at the history. They didn't do that the first time, and the money now is going into tooling, parts, and IP.
    1
  1547. The second Aptera Motors vehicle is planned to be a 5 passenger 4 wheel sedan.
    1
  1548. The main issue with the state of solar tech is that Tesla is too inefficient for the solar contribution available to make much difference.
    1
  1549. This is both practical and simple. The only maintenance costs for most owners will be tires, windshield wipers, and washer fluid. Depending on the distance driven, it may produce all of the power it needs for daily driving.
    1
  1550. Aptera Corp was only founded in 2019.
    1
  1551. The way Aptera Corp is structured, it is unlikely that any company can buy them out. The founders learned that lessen when they formed a partnership with Idealab for the first Aptera, Inc.
    1
  1552. Most of us wash our vehicles occasionally, unless we are driving them on Mars, - In that case we dump dirt on them to clean them.
    1
  1553. I expect AWD to be excellent with proper tires. The traction control can detect slip and adjust torque about every 2.5" of tread travel.
    1
  1554. Yes. There is even video of it taken with a prototype.
    1
  1555. This will not be available at first, but will come from new, taller form factor batteries that are coming.
    1
  1556. With about 3 feet from the front wheel track to the center wheel, most pot holes should be easy to straddle. It will become second nature with a few hours of practice. I live on a gravel road and am not worried about this.
    1
  1557. That is what lobbying is for ;)
    1
  1558. There has been video of a prototype driving in snow in Switzerland. They even drove it on a ski slope with the snow above the bottom of the wheel covers.
    1
  1559. Well over 40,000 paid pre-orders at present, when they were originally planning for around 4,000.
    1
  1560. Many of us in the US Midwest have ordered them and plan to drive year 'round
    1
  1561. You can only say such a thing if you aren't paying attention. First of all, Aptera Corp. and this design only started in 2019. Secondly the body tooling is finished and validation parts are being produced. Soon Production Intent vehicles will be undergoing validation testing.
    1
  1562. AC will have levers to move the vents and direct air flow.
    1
  1563. The initial announced price for the base model was $25,900, when they were announced. The first model produced will not be the base model. We won't know final pricing until they are closer to shipping. The good news is that battery cost- a major part of the total- has been dropping since pricing targets were first announced.
    1
  1564. This is just a legalism. It will be replacing my present 2 seat car, and will have better performance in every category I can think of - often by a lot.
    1
  1565. The antifreeze was not circulating in that clip, and it had already made the same climb 3 times to collect B roll. It did fine once cooling was working.
    1
  1566. It is easy to look up the carbon payback for the cells. There are many variables, but the time is likely to be between one and three years, and certainly within the lifetime of the panels. Maxeon, the manufacturer of the cells used by Aptera, warranties their cells to still be producing 88% of new after 40 years. Long before that, higher output cells will be availalbe, making it pay to change to newer tech. Aptera is using different controllers than found in roof top solar panels that don't reduce the power output as much due to a shadow on the panel. I don't think you have looked into this. It might be wise to do before making unconsidered comments.
    1
  1567. Crash tests later in the year when pre production vehicles are available. They are designed to excel in safety.
    1
  1568. I go back to ARPANET and USENET (alt.goodmorning, anyone?) My first bike was a 1942 Indian, and I have over 400,000 miles on 2 wheels. My next vehicle will be an Aptera.
    1
  1569. I was really worried about that until my wife and I rode in a prototype. We hardly noticed it. I suggest riding in a Production Intent version when you have a chance. I think you will be as surprised as we were.
    1
  1570. The second Aptera is likely to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan, as mentioned in their SEC reports.
    1
  1571. The Hydrogen energy round trip will always be considerably more wasteful of energy and therefore more costly than a battery electric system. There may be a place for hydrogen, but it shouldn't be as a personal ground transporation fuel.
    1
  1572.  @-LightningRod-  My first thought is - what a beautiful place you live in! - but cold in the winter, the only time I have every been. I expect to have an early model and expect that there will need to be changes - the first one is a reversing valve that will allow the AC compressor to work as a heat pump and lower the electricity needed to keep the system warm enough in the winter.
    1
  1573.  @FutureAzA  ...and don't forget that Reliant produced a 3 wheeled car that sold 1/2 a million copies, became a cultural icon, and lifted them to the #2 automaker position in Great Britain.
    1
  1574.  @vic321344  Something most tropical countries have in abundance.
    1
  1575. The HVAC is designed to perform over a range of -20 to 125 F. It may struggle in -40 conditions.
    1
  1576. Aptera plans to have overnight parts shipments and a mobile repair crew in Southern California to start with. Because they offer Right to Repair, my rural Iowa shop has already told me they will be glad to work on it when the time comes.
    1
  1577. They have obtained a supply.
    1
  1578. $25,900 is not a fortune for what is on offer. I have ordered the full solar option, which will clearly pay for itself in electricity savings even in Iowa where I may get less than half the power it would get in San Diego
    1
  1579. They won't know for a while yet since funding isn't fully in place and they don't know how the validation testing will go. Early deliveries may start at the end of 2024 or beginning of 2025.
    1
  1580. This was always thought of as a niche vehicle. The niche is quite large compared to the Tesla Roadster and the second Aptera will be a 4 wheel 5 passenger sedan.
    1
  1581.  @Fab1Man  It was never intended as a mass market vehicle - but the panels have already qualified for a number of patents and no other vehicle yet proposed can cover the average daily driving range from solar alone. The over 40,000 pre-orders show that hte demand is far larger than even the company founders had expected. My prediction after my wife and I rode in a prototype is that once people experience it the demand will explode.
    1
  1582.  @jwalster9412  This is easy to research. Aptera Corp was founded in 2019, and completely redesigned for volume manufacturing in 2022 to meet unexpectedly large demand.
    1
  1583.  @ThrowAway-xw9bt  The motors have been tested running under 10 ft of water. (don't try this at home).
    1
  1584.  @fotoguru222  Incentives would help, but it doesn't need them to still offer value.
    1
  1585.  @Akotski-ys9rr  The first Aptera was a partnership with Idealab, who hired a Detroit CEO and kicked out the founders in 2009. They voluntarily liquidated in 2011 when they couldn't raise funds for their alternative plans and paid back all the vendors and the pre-order holders. The investors who backed the board vote screwed themselves. It was never a scam, and both founders have run successful companies since and before starting Aptera Corp. This time they are structured to maintain control.
    1
  1586.  @wouter2599  The "more normal looking" is a fashion design statement and is why it will fail. Aptera is functional form.
    1
  1587.  @DOGbackwardz  No version of Aptera has ever gone "bankrupt" - not Aptera Inc. and Tesla has been closer to bankruptcy twice than Aptera Corp ever has.
    1
  1588.  @GoClimbARockEh  With a different structure and product. The founders won't be voted out of control of Aptera Corp.
    1
  1589.  @MattBlank0  This old lie. Aptera Inc. never went bankrupt. The Detroit CEO organized a suprise board vote to kick out the founders in 2009, and when he couldn't raise funds for his new ideas he liquidated the company and paid off the vendors and pre-order holders.
    1
  1590.  @YeeLeeHaw  They were actually forced out in a surprise board vote in 2009 that the Detroit CEO organized.
    1
  1591.  @GraemeTaylor  Even Aptera tells you not to invest money you can't afford to lose. I second that. I consider my investment like a contribution to a charity that might be able to move the world in a direction I want to see. The difference is that with Aptera Corp, there actually IS a chance of a financial return as well.
    1
  1592.  @allynj2272  Elio never offered refunds, and was easily found to be a scam if you did your due diligence. I quickly found their engine claims were bogus. Aptera's pre-order funds are held in escrow and can be returned on request.
    1
  1593.  @rod444rod  Except Aptera Inc. did not go bankrupt - they were voluntarily liquidated.
    1
  1594.  @Grant5321  No that is not what happened new management took over in 2009 and voluntarily liquidated the company because they didn't what to build the vehicle Chis and Steve had intended.
    1
  1595.  @GrenYT  All yo have to do is ride in a prototype, as my wife and I have, and you know it makes great sense. So do many other major car guys.
    1
  1596.  @igeekone  I ride in one will change lots of minds - source my wife and I have had this experience.
    1
  1597.  @truantray  No they didn't Aptera Inc. kicked out Steve and Chris in a board meeting in 2009, and never wanted to build the car the company was formed for. They voluntarily liquidated the company in 2011 and never went bankrupt. The 2019 design was brand new, and was redesigned in 2022 for volume production.
    1
  1598.  @truantray  No version of Aptera has ever gone bankrupt. Why do people keep repeating these falsehoods?
    1
  1599.  @gamm8939  Aptera has front and rear cumple zones, seat bealts and an F! style passenger safety cage. It will be 3rd party tested to FMVSS Part 200 standards and the results published. You will have the actual results after testing if the PI vehicles next year.
    1
  1600.  @devilliersduplessis7904  No.
    1
  1601.  @highdesertbiker  Yes. I live in Iowa, and only expect 20. It will still save its cost over the ownership life.
    1
  1602.  @dtay8913  I took a close look at Elio, but when I discovered the engine plans were bogus, I knew they were a fraud. The demo models were nothing more than "kit cars" not designed for production.
    1
  1603.  @christophers707  All those are valid criticisms, but they have been addressed by more than one company. Most engineering is a combination of compromises. CV joints also add weight, cost, and most of all additional bearing surfaces and friction that wheel motors don't have. At around 50 lbs, Aptera/Elaphe wheel motors are not greatly heavier than many vehicles with standard wheels, and Roush Performance has done a great job of tuning the suspension. In Aptera's case, where reduction of friction and increase in efficiency are primary goals the trade-off works. You will be stunned when you experience the performance -as my wife and I did in a prototype. All of this work has been completed over more than a decade of testing.
    1
  1604.  @readypetequalmers7360  No it hasn't. You are speaking of Aptera Inc. Aptera Inc. was a partnership with Idealab that was liquidated after they hired a CEO from Detroit who never wanted to build the original vehicle he was hired for in the first place. He organized a surprise coupe at a board meeting and kicked out the founders in 2009. He couldn't raise funds for his ideas and liquidated the company in 2011. Both Aptera founders went on to found and run new successful companies. Chris took his battery company public as co-founder and CEO, and Delta Airlines is now a major customer. Aptera Corp was founded in 2019, and its corporate structure and product have almost nothing to do with the original vehicle except for a nod to the shape. Size, drive train, and design are all completely new.
    1
  1605.  @EricHaskins71  They aren't even close to the trouble that Tesla was in December of 2008 or again in 2017. The record is clear that they seem much better managed for the same relative time frame. Elon has even spoken publicly about this. By the way, I hold Paradigm order #42, and am thrilled about what is happening. The vehicle we will get will be FAR more advanced than the one I originally expected. The delay is well worth it for what it makes possible.
    1
  1606.  @Stripeysnave  It still will use 2.5 less power than than a Tesla Model 3 for the same performance - even without any solar contribution at all. The difference in power and tire costs will pay for any initial price difference over time, and lessen the environmental burden as well.
    1
  1607. Sadly, most of the opposition to any environmental concern at all is politically related and a refusal to face the facts based on political power considerations.
    1
  1608. John, the "electric tricycle" phrase has little practical meaning. It is designed with automotive safety features. The utility will provide every function of my present Gen 1 Honda Insight with greater ability and less running cost. If it walks like a duck....The full solar, which one does not have to purchase, will easily pay for itself even in Iowa, where I may get half the solar range I could expect in San Diego.
    1
  1609.  @johndelong5574  Just as with a VW bug you could get a crew to lift it, but you aren't going to do it with two men even in the lightest version.
    1
  1610.  @vic321344  Why give out false information? Aptera is designed to pass the full FMVSS Section 200 crash tests and will be tested to them before shipping begins.
    1
  1611.  @vic321344  You are the one claiming false information. There are no published crash tests for the Tesla Cybertruck, either, and for the same reason. Can you not understand English, or are you just a troll?
    1
  1612.  @vic321344  No one ever said that crash tests for Aptera are mandatory. What they have said is that it has been designed from the beginning to pass them and will be so tested before shipping begins. Here is a direct quote from the FAQ : We will not know Aptera's actual rating until we pass a production vehicle through the full safety test. The previous version had the highest roof crush strength of all passenger cars on the road, it performed exceedingly well in actual side and frontal crash tests. Aptera features a Formula One-inspired safety cell with advanced composites and metal structures for impact strength. Similar to aerospace and racing, these energy-absorbing methods are a core part of our safety strategy and have proven effective time and time again in high speed impacts. You clearly have a problem with comprehension/s
    1
  1613. ​ @vic321344  "Seems"? You are clearly not an engineer. All manufacturers do this for beta vehicles now - it is probably an insurance requirement. Just look at video of early Lucid test mules, or Lordstown, or anyone else who is open enough to show such videos. We know the early Aptera passed actual roof crush strength tests. You try to spread FUD, but people recognize it for the manure it is.
    1
  1614.  @vic321344  Any company that is serious carries insurance for their corporate activities. And the alpha prototypes are also driven on the public roads. Yes, I hope you are getting the message about your FUD.
    1
  1615.  @vic321344  You clearly have no experience in business if you think companies don't carry insurance of this kind. Unlike what is obviously the case with you, I have worked at both the Ford and GM proving grounds and with several other EV companies, and they all carried insurance. You are just plain wrong about this. Why do you think the other EV companies such as Lucid also install roll cages on their vehicles? You offer nothing but FUD.
    1
  1616.  @vic321344  LOL. Keep on destroying your cred and raising the profile of this channel in the process. You can't even spell, LOL.
    1
  1617.  @vic321344  FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. And....you still can't spell.
    1
  1618.  @vic321344  So, Im guessing you are not three years old. Why act like it?
    1
  1619.  @vic321344  Du!
    1
  1620.  @vic321344  I hate to tell you, but with a decade of English teaching experience, you would sound more literate if you wrote "We Americans" Just one more example of your sloppiness. with language and facts.
    1
  1621. Having ridden in one of the alpha prototypes before Thanksgiving, it seems as though the things I noticed about the suspension have already been addressed in the betas.
    1
  1622. Neither the 600 or 1000 mile range batteries are in production yet - but they will be.
    1
  1623.  @FutureAzA  Still, those steps are listed in their SEC filings.
    1
  1624. The fact that there is an off road kit and a camper option means that my wife and I can sleep in temp controlled comfort with no RV needed!
    1
  1625. There has been some video of one of the prototypes on a snowy ski slope in Switzerland and at a hotel parking lot in frigid weather. I will be posting video of my early model LE version in Iowa.
    1
  1626. The cells used in Aptera are less expensive and more efficient that the ones in your example. There are also proprietary developments that make them easy to service and change out if needed.
    1
  1627.  @marcusfleuti2672  I think you have not done your calculation correctly. It will vary by location, but It looks to me from looking at solar insulation charts that you are likely to average around 2.5 kWH per day in much of Germany given the area of Aptera panels and the 22-23% collection efficiency., which probably does make sense considering the cost of full solar is only $900. Batteries are expensive and do not change the amount of power you gain through solar. The extra weight also gives you a range penalty. I do agree that stationary solar makes a lot of sense if you have access to it.
    1
  1628. Just a comment that the design is based on the same Morelli body design form 1985, but everything else about the execution is different, including the drive train. There are no common parts between the two, and the new vehicle is larger.
    1
  1629.  @sunrisejak2709  No, those companies were followers, after Aptera did the work to get Tesla to give permission for others to use it and make other the other companies realise why it was a desirable change. Their work came long before Ford and the others even thought about using NACS.
    1
  1630.  @VMYeahVN  It matters because they talked Tesla into making the connector available to other manufacturers with the help of a petition signed by 40,000 people. Tesla would not have opened the connector to competitors if Aptera had not seen the benefits to everyone and made a convincing case.
    1
  1631.  @VMYeahVN  No. You have your dates wrong. EVgo announced that they would offer CHAdeMO, SAE Combo or CCS, and Tesla connectors without the need of a separate adapter in 2020, not 2021. Aptera was already using the Tesla connector when they started in 2019. Chris Anthony owned a Model X and released a video explaining why he thought it was a superior choice and that the Aptera prototypes would use it with the hopes that Tesla would allow them to make it a standard part of the Aptera design, which, of course they eventually did. I rode in an Aptera prototype that had the Tesla connector in 2021. I was working in the industry at the time as a supplier and saw things develop first hand. I was across the street from Tesla in 2008, and my company hired the Tesla engineers when Tesla ran out of money and had to lay them off. I know what I am talking about.
    1
  1632.  @VMYeahVN  It seems my reply with links has been removed. The press coverage from the time is out there, including directly from Aptera and Green Car Reports - you can find the articles yourself.
    1
  1633. Just plug it in to your 110 VAC outlet and get 120 miles of added range overnight.
    1
  1634.  @vic321344  Another lie - why don't you quote what he actually said?
    1
  1635. Having ridden in an alpha, I know that there is plenty of room between either front wheel and the center to straddle most potholes.
    1
  1636. ​ @jameswilson4732 The windmill or water turbine are not getting their energy from the same system. If the wingmill was turning with wind blown by a fan or the if the water came from a pump driven by the same battery system you would have the same issue.
    1
  1637.  @jameswilson4732  I suggest you look up the Wikipedia article on Perpetual Motion and read that, which explains why it can't work continuously in detail.
    1
  1638. The second, 5 passenger sedan will likely have 4 wheels. For this one, 3 wheels makes sense - including lower rolling resistance, and lighter weight and cost.
    1
  1639.  @1sostatic  Well, of course the Robin and other 3 wheelers from Reliant were made into a laughing stock, but they had to be modified to perform the way they did in the mocking videos. They performed will enough to raise Reliant to the 2nd largest vehicle manufacturing position in GB, selling tens of thousands of copies and becoming Iconic. Morgans are also 3 wheelers, and are more an object of envy rather than laughter. In Aptera's case, the design is purely functional - it is not a fashion statement.
    1
  1640. The thing is that Aptera is not a fashion statement, but is designed for performance.
    1
  1641. What State are you in? I think there may be only three such States left and there have been proposals to change this in all three. If that is true where you are, call your local rep and make a difference.
    1
  1642. It will gain range about 3 times faster than any other EV plugged into the same charging source.
    1
  1643.  @chrisbarrett2512  I have been banned from driving until late October, but the neurologist tells me he thinks I will be able to drive again then. All of us oldsters are in a race with time, but I will be very glad to know that Apterea are hitting the road, even if I am not driving my own. I ordered the Level 2 driving assist out of the gate, and that is only getting better as time goes on.
    1
  1644.  @ericstarmer7779  I SO hope you have a chance to enjoy yours. People like you are still doing us all a favor by furthering a project that our environment deeply needs.
    1
  1645. Aptera has already designed RHD models and they will be offered where needed.
    1
  1646. To be fair, these are nominal numbers, and there are many older buildings that would be lucky to even reach the 110 volt values, especially in winter in areas that have electric heat.
    1
  1647. You have not grasped the performance, safety or size of this vehicle with your comment.
    1
  1648.  @johnnyv5995  I presently drive a Gen 1 Honda Insight which weighs about the same as a 40 kWh battery Aptera. The 100 kW battery pack would be required to 1600 km on a charge. The Gen 1 Honda got safety ratings of 4s when it was crash tested. I was hit from behind by a large car on the freeway at 60 mph and was uninjured. You can bet I found another to replace it. The Aptera design has superior safety engineering in several areas and will be voluntarily crash tested to automotive standards. We don't have the ratings yet, but by design it is safer than that car was - in part because it has larger crumple zones and an F1 style passenger safety cage the Honda lacks, plus air bags and other safety features with more advanced design.
    1
  1649. Yes, and from the sides as well.
    1
  1650. Aptera will have manual levers on the air vents.
    1
  1651. It has a level two Safety Pilot as a $1,300 option that has OTA upgrades.
    1
  1652. Because Tesla is so inefficient in comparison, that just slapping some solar panels on the roof will not add significant performance as it does for Aptera. Every watt gained by the Aptera drives it 2.5 times further than it would a Model 3.
    1
  1653. With the full solar option, it will be covered. And that is what I ordered.
    1
  1654. The entire full solar package for an Aptera is only $900, which makes it a no brainer for many people who live in sunny areas.
    1
  1655. Pay attention to my reports on how it does in snow when I start driving mine in Iowa.
    1
  1656.  @darrenshebell3563  The same due diligence that quickly dismissed Elio, confirms the Aptera program. People making such comments have not seriously looked into it.
    1
  1657. Look up the Reliant Robin, which sold around 1/2 million copies and took Reliant to the #2 manufacturer's position in Great Britain. Lots of your claims are likely to be the opposite of the reality. With only around 6 thousand parts, the repairability and dependability are likely to be FAR better, and Sandy Munro agrees. Few regular cars have the low cost of operation nor the performance fun factor of Aptera. 28 cu ft of storage and enough space to sleep a couple also argue for its utility.
    1
  1658.  @aussieideasman8498  Robin was inexpensive but just adequate for the time. Aptera outperforms its rivals for the price today. Many people are still price sensitive - that hasn't changed.
    1
  1659. I live in Iowa and will post my experience with an early model. Aptera will be crash tested by a third party to pass FMVSS Part 200 crash tests, same as cars, and the results will be made public.
    1
  1660.  @aknsd2009  the Tesla Roadster has sold a total of fewer than 2500 vehicles. The niche occupied by Aptera is far larger and will lead to mass market vehicles.
    1
  1661. Crashing in anything could be. I have around 1/2 million miles on motorcycles and am really looking forward to my Aptera.
    1
  1662. Needs some fact checking and caption editing. Nice video overall. Posted a link to Reddit.
    1
  1663. Aptera is not a "fashion statement" it is almost pure form follows function.
    1
  1664. Different company and vehicle.
    1
  1665.  @vic321344  I know very well what Tesla's engineers did. They worked for us too. I hope you keep this comment up here so people will see how well it ages. Every one can already see how empty your "no invention necessary" comment is regarding one of the most innovative vehicles in history.
    1
  1666. Unknown.
    1
  1667. Not required in the US due to the motorcycle or autocycle classification.
    1
  1668. No, you are confusing it with a similar appearing vehicle. Different company and different design.
    1
  1669. Top Gear even launched a Robin, but it didn't get as far as the Tesla did.
    1
  1670. Wefunder/Aptera
    1
  1671. An Aptera charges at a rate of 13 miles of additional range per hour of plug time plugged into a 110V 15 amp wall socket, and considerably faster if a 230 volt circuit is used.
    1
  1672. I rode in an early prototype and if felt like a kit car I once owned. The suspension has been greatly refined since then, but it is still likely more on the sports car side, rather than a plush ride.
    1
  1673.  @michaelmay9958  In the US it even fits in compact spaces....
    1
  1674. Do you have a pre-order in?
    1
  1675. There are quite a few like you, but not everyone, of course.
    1
  1676. It will have 3 or 4 selectable levels of regenerative braking.
    1
  1677. Aptera was planning to deliver a vehicle with a vacuum resin produced body, which could have happened and would have been similar to the gamma prototype. The number of paid pre-orders came in about 20 times higher than they expected which caused the need for a complete redesign. The good news is that the quality is going from kit car to super-car like. The money has gone into tooling which is finished and validated body parts are being produced. Soon we will have production intent vehicles undergoing validation testing.
    1
  1678.  @scottmcshannon6821  Not if you compare it to a Tesla Roadster, which the proper comparison for the companies' first vehicle.
    1
  1679. I have ordered a white one for this reason. The second development vehicle is undergoing final assembly in San Diego and it is white. We will have video in a few weeks.
    1
  1680. The tires are not that wide. The traction control and ABS update 32 times per wheel revolution, far faster than most other systems. We will have full winter weather test results and footage from the Elaphe winter test track next season.
    1
  1681.  @jacquesguillotte3270  I will be getting one of the early cars and will probably be able to report personal experience in snowy mountain passes with a two motor version. I have far more experience in these conditions than I would have preferred on motorcycles and no traction control. We will see.
    1
  1682. Yes.
    1
  1683. Heating will not be as good as we would hope in the first models due to supply chain issues. We don't have a lot of detail yet about the A/C, but that is coming. The r value of the body is much higher than a typical vehicle.
    1
  1684. Aptera's second vehicle is planned to be a 5 passenger 4 wheel sedan. More details when they go public.
    1
  1685. Looks will be deceptive in this case.
    1
  1686. The next Aptera model is likely to be a 4 wheel, 5 passenger sedan.
    1
  1687. We will see. I bet it will exceed the initial specs when the PI vehicles are validated. The bodies being produced now are already of far higher quality than what was initially announced, with far less labor required.
    1
  1688. AWD can give torque vectoring and traction control on slick surfaces. I will be using mine in Iowa year 'round.
    1
  1689.  @petemiller519  Pete I am 73, and fully acknowledge that Aptera is a niche vehicle not for everyone. However, for a retired couple or a young person starting out, I wonder what compromises you see? Aptera will improve on our present 2 seat Honda in almost every category - cost of ownership, carrying capacity, range and acceleration (think fun factor). Also the safety of a superior ABS/Traction control.
    1
  1690.  @petemiller519  Since it is just my wife and I now, and we can sleep in the back, towing capacity isn't a sacrifice for us. I have done hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycles, and Aptera will be at least as safe as our current Honda if we were to get in a wreck. At a 50 kW DC charger we will gain range at up to 500 miles per hour, so I don't think we will lose much there. I realize that we fit in a niche market, but everyone, including Aptera themselves, is realizing that it is a larger niche than they thought. Telsas are pretty great too, and meet needs that Our Aptera won't. Having ridden in a prototype, we find Aptera a lot more fun than all but something like a Plaid. That said, Merry Christmas, and thanks for coming here to discuss!
    1
  1691.  @loodog555  I live in Iowa where my solar insolation is about half what one would expect in San Diego. I have done the calculations, and I am likely to average about double the 10 miles per day you are figuring.
    1
  1692. Elon Musk is very likely to partner with Aptera.
    1
  1693.  @markplott4820  So if there was any truth to your allegation, why has not the SEC started fraud investigations against any of the companies the founders have been involved in, including a publicly traded one? And why do billion dollar plus VCs continue to invest in them, after doing due diligence? The answer is simple. Your claims are fraudulent. Not even Tesla can mass produce the Cybertruck that they announced about the same time Aptera restarted, even with greatly more resources.
    1
  1694.  @markplott4820  LOL! Metrolino? That is a figment of your imagination. Nobe is an interesting entry, but won't have anywhere near the performance for the price, and won't have the same safety. It is designed for a different market. Carver? 1/2 the speed, 6 times the charge time, a fraction of the range. for about 1/2 the price. Again, it may meet the needs of some and I hope it does well. Clever is a Chinese city car, No way is it as safe, capable or well made as the American Aptera. Is that your claim? Are you a Chinese bot? Why should someone fear Aptera? I guess the fear of being shown you are silly is a valid one in your case.
    1
  1695.  @markplott4820  You completely misunderstand. The Polaris and other such vehicles proves that there is a market for 3 wheelers in the US, but very few people who have placed preorders for Aptera are specifically looking for a 3 wheeler. They are buying for low environmental impact and a far lower cost of ownership that what even a several years old Model S would cost. Neither I nor Aptera would put down the Model S - in fact one of the Aptera founders owns one. If there is no market, how do you explain that Aptera already has thousands more pre-orders than Tesla sold Model S in their first year of production? You are just wrong.
    1
  1696. Not the case. There is no recharging infrastructure to speak of and little incentive to build it out. Hail will not make an Aptera inoperable. It is unlikely to even destroy the solar cells. This has already been thoroughly tested.
    1
  1697. Comparing Aptera Corp and the vehicle with either the Dale or the Elio, indictes that you have not looked into it. Aptera has 3 wheels for sound engineering reasons to meet its design goals, and it is a legitimate company that is producing validated body parts now with expensive tooling. It won't be long before Production Intent vehicles will be undergoing validation testing, including to crash test standards that they don't legally have to meet to be offered for sale. They are a serious company and product.
    1
  1698. The 12000 pre-orders already received at the alpha prototype stage shows the market exists. BTW, Apteras start at $ 25,900.
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  1699. How can you say that they aren't even trying when the panels are now glass covered and 40% lighter in weight than the original plastic covered ones. They are going to be extremely scratch resistant and among the most efficient available on the market, with a controller that adapts to shadows without a huge decrease in output? You apparently haven't looked into what they are doing.
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  1700. All the body tooling has been finished and validated parts are being produced. Soon the PI vehicles will be undergoing validation testing, including by third parties.
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  1701.  @vic321344  You can't get your facts ever straight. The company wasn't even formed until 2019, and the first prototype wasn't announced until December 2021. Then Covid hit, and the vehicle has undergone several complete redesigns of both body and power train. Testing of the Production Intent vehicles is just beginning.
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  1702. Now that we have test track performance and I have ridden in a prototype, I can tell you that your fears have come to naught. I will be giving reports on the performance of my own personal example next year.
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  1703. Based on?
    1
  1704. Not enough power from street lights to make a difference.
    1
  1705. Aptera and Tesla use some of the same third party suppliers. The latest information on the beta Aptera design makes it look like they are going to go with a yoke. We may have more detail on this before long.
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  1706. The motors are NOT unsprung. Roush Performance has designed the suspension. Spend a bit of time doing due diligence between Elio and Aptera Corp. The resemblance is purely superficial, starting with the fact that Aptera's deposits are held in escrow and completely refundable at any time, and the Aptera founders have run successful companies. Chris Anthony took a lithium battery company as CEO.
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  1707.  @bobhellman8676  Of course..
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  1708.  @SkyRiver1  Yes, it is easy to believe what you want to without doing any research. There is a difference between the wheels being unsprung weight, which they are and not being sprung, which they also are. The ability to control wheels the weight of Aptera's drive system has been well studied decades before Aptera made their choice, and I have read several of the papers. Even better I have ridden in a prototype that was as good or better than my Kelmark GT kitcar.. Doing some study would pay off.
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  1709.  @MikiMuzsi  I am pretty sure that people who would consider an Arcimoto would not be a market for Aptera and vice versa. I could see some people getting both. The use cases are just too different from my perspective. Cost is an important factor, but, for people who are looking for a 2 person vehicle, suspect the proposed Tesla is not going to be as attractive. The design will not be as focused to the purpose. If Aptera can really execute and deliver, I don't think there is a much competitive threat in the market segment they have targeted. Most of the threat that does exist could be in the market growth potential in follow on vehicles.
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  1710. Not correct.
    1
  1711. The prototype , soon to be joined by others is on the roads around San Diego. The first production models may be delivered by the end of the year.
    1
  1712.  @MaxGoddur  perhaps she will change her mind if you don't mis- represent to her what it actually is. Perhaps wait until the crash test ratings are known.
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  1713.  @MaxGoddur  I am one of those over 65 fans. Aptera has a referral program modeled after the one Tesla had. Once you have a preorder in you can participate, too. I am not going to be begging on social media. I think when my friends see it in person that I will have plenty of referrals.
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  1714. Aptera has plans to eventually produce a full line of EVs, as revealed in their SEC reports. The next model is likely to be a 5 passenger sedan. They are putting their attention on this first model now, but more will be said about follow on models when they go public, after this first vehicle is shipping.
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  1715. It is a partnership of two owners who lost their last vehicle company, and now have a record of success that incorporates what they learned. Chris Anthony took the last company he co-founded public as CEO.
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  1716. The first Production Intent vehicles are being assembled now. The tooling has been finished and parts have been validated. They will be undergoing validation, including crash testing over the first few months, and depending on results, the first customer deliveries will start around the end of this year.
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  1717. Not really, since so little material is actually used compared to most vehicles on the road.
    1
  1718. Contact your local independent repair shops. It is likely that you can find several willing to do it, especially since they will be able to get parts, and the service documents will be available to them for free.
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  1719. I own a Gen 1 Honda Insight, and Aptera beats its performance as a car in every respect. I also have 1/2 million miles on motorcycles and Aptera is not a motorcycle by functional performance.
    1
  1720.  @Bill-Rink  Bill, I have around 1/2 a million miles on many different motorcycles, starting with a 1942 Indian Scout. I know what a motorcycle is. I have also ridden in an Aptera prototype. Aptera has FAR more in common with my present car- including more cargo space lower operating cost, and better acceleration performance. At least 38 states have an "autocycle" designation, which Aptera fits. "Motorcycle" is merely a legal class that only fits Aptera in a minority of states.
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  1721. It is a niche car. There are follow on models that will be more mass market.
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  1722. Every reservation helps get us all closer to our vehicles. Thank you!
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  1723. There are UV protect0rants such as 303 that can be applied to greatly slow this process. Great comment.
    1
  1724. You must not be familiar with California. It could have easily cost him that. Chris has a Tesla Model S by the way. In my area around SF Bay the costs would be similar and it might take a wait of over a year to get the work scheduled.
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  1725. The body design is many times stronger than a conventional vehicle with a passenger safety cage while still maintaining proper crumple zones and air bags.
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  1726.  @jasonbreathkiller3660  quote an example- there are none. Physics is physics.
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  1727. The prototype does not have full solar.
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  1728. A 5 seater 4 wheel model is planned.
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  1729. Aptera was the very first third party company to have permission to use the NACS charger, and to push for its adoption.
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  1730. With right to repair, owners can do what they wish to it.
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  1731. Jim, all you have to do is look at Aptera's last video. The solar panels and 40 kWh battery packs are both now in limited production in their own factory spaces. They are still on track for having an alpha production vehicle by the end of the year, produced with production tooling. Compare their start with Tesla's 6 years to produce their first Lotus Elise EV conversion, or even the 2019 start of the Cybertruck project - about the same time Aptera restarted with the present design. You need to look at the actual evidence instead of your constant spin.
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  1732.  @FutureAzA  As does Aptera - in fact they don't limit you as many do.
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  1733. Yes, along with white and silver. Completely custom will be available through wraps.
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  1734. No. Normal car wheels bolt on to the wheel motors as if they were drum brakes. You don't seem to understand what they are.
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  1735. The body form is not a fashion statement that can go out of style. It is pure form follows function. I plan to drive mine year round in Iowa on gravel roads. I will report on my experience.
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  1736. My wife and I rode in an alpha prototype in 2021. The production intent vehicles will be greatly improved in every respect, and can be manufactured in quantity to meet demand, which wasn't true of the original design.
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  1737. Yes, Sandy has an investment position in Aptera and is also a consultant to them. He designed the production floor..
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  1738. It is not true that all testing is done in house. Roush Performance did much of the suspension testing, for instance with additional input from CPC. Pinafarina has done some of the initial aerodynamic testing. A third party will do the crash testing. More data will come out when the production intent vehicles go through validation.
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  1739.  @laloajuria4678  There are already well over 40,000 deposits in.
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  1740. Hydrogen will never be a personal transportation solution. It is simple physics.
    1
  1741. The Oil industry will no longer have the power to control it. Their time is passing, and the world knows it.
    1
  1742.  @grahamleadbeatter5981  The parts have already been designed.
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  1743.  @grahamleadbeatter5981  Welcome to the family! I understand!
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  1744. Everyone is missing release dates, including Tesla and the Big Three. Covid related issues are affecting everyone. Aptera has already shown completed beta vehicles and are in parts validation testing. If they don't run into major roadblocks with the supply chain or beta test results, I still expect to receive my Paradigm edition this year. Just like any new vehicle there will be improvements in later ones, but with right to repair, and a simple design with a 10th of the number of parts of standard construction, updates will be relatively easy.
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  1745. If he lives in a place like Calgary, CA, you try walking 3 miles this time of year - it could be life threatening.
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  1746. You do know that the sun will be charging as much as 4,000 watt hours per day into the 45 kW battery pack of the first models, don't you? That will be enough to drive 40 miles in the US SW at EPA highway speeds. We will have more exact numbers once the validation testing has been completed on the PI models. I would call enough power to meet the daily driving needs of the average driver real solar power.
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  1747.  @greatbigguy  Look at what you said. You don't have a point. In Iowa, I will probably only average 20 miles per day, but that is still more than my usual daily miles. It is likely that I can do an occasional round trip to Des Moines or Kansas City and STILL be only on solar. And, lets say I have to plug it in. Where I live, 63% of my grid power comes from wind.. And if you compare it to any other car - lets say a Tesla Model 3 at the same speed, I will still use 2.5 times LESS power, no mater what the source. The daily power expense will put dollars in your pocket no matter how much or how little you drive.
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  1748.  @greatbigguy  And it could be completely wrong If I average less than the solar gain per day, which many owners will, I can drive up to 400 miles on this first version completely on solar power. It will have been completely generated and stored by the car. You are trying to mislead by ignoring the actual performance of the tech which will soon be publicly validated with the PI builds.
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  1749. I don't know about your last sentence , but the rest is correct.
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  1750. If you have to plug it in, you get 2.5 times the range you would get from a Tesla model 3 from the same power.
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  1751.  @monawoka97  There is nothing preventing you from doing that, too. The panels on your house won't help you during camping trips.
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  1752. The Aptera wheels are standard automotive wheels that bolt on to the wheel motors as if they were drum brakes.
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  1753. The "look" is pure form follows function. it is shaped the way it is to lower resistance and put more of the energy into actual transportation. It is not a "style" statement.
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  1754. I don't think any of your "reasons" are correct. Crash worthiness will be tested to FMVSS standards, and we will all get the ratings to compare. The reason # 2 is wrong is that the tire contact patches have to support less weight. In fact the ABS/traction control is more precise than what Tesla has achieved so far. Aptera has parking assist sensors. I doubt that they will have more issues than the Plymouth Prowler did - which was essentially none.
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  1755. That is in the plans eventually, after they go public.
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  1756.  @aussieideasman8498  Aptera did not "fold" it was liquidated and paid off all of the pre-orders, vendor debts and even paid several months severance to the employees. The CEO responsible was able to kick the founders off the board in 2009 with the help of Google and other large investors, but unable to raise funds for his vision when he decided not to build the car he was hired for.
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  1757. Yes, but they will last a long time because most braking will be regenerative.
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  1758.  @JG-oc9gc  I can't seem to link. Do a search on Aptera. disc brakes.
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  1759.  @vic321344  Many people know the ballpark times if you know the likely conditions, and Aptera has given us most of the information needed to calculate the needed power. It doesn't take too many assumptions to know that the numbers check out.
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  1760. BC, many of your statements are wrong. I can say from experience because I have ridden in an Aptera prototype and have hundreds of thousands of miles of motorcycle miles under my belt as well. I suggest that you audition one when you have a chance.
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  1761.  @gj1234567899999  I have ridden in the Luna prototype. They are indeed real. They are intended for a niche market - not a million cars. Their tooling costs are at least an order of magnitude lower than what Tesla's are, for example.
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  1762.  @gj1234567899999  If it were so easy we would see more "prototypes" with the performance of these. It is hard and every idea has to start somewhere. This first Aptera is intended from the beginning to be a niche vehicle. If, as seems likely, the small scale production is profitable, much larger potential market designs are waiting in the wings, and Aptera may not be the only company shifting to similar plans. Indeed, I think the founders and many of the investors hope they are not alone. The idea that a low thousands of numbers means nothing is false. I know this from working at other failed startups where the products and technology they developed ended up changing their industries. I think this particular company has even more promise they did, but of course I don't have the advantage of hindsight in the case of Aptera.
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  1763.  @vic321344  Nothing wrong with that. It will still meet the needs of the thousands who have preordered it. I have over 400,000 miles of experience on motorcycles so I am all for them, but there are some things that the Aptera can match or exceed the performance of my present car that motorcycles can't do.
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  1764. My wife and I have ridden in an early prototype. Speed bumps are no problem. The wheel pants lift with the tires. I live in a rural Iowa town and the cost to own and drive an Aptera will be about 2.5 times lower than the next least expensive alternative and be much more environmentally friendly at the same time.
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  1765. Different company and vehicle, but similar shape. This company was founded in 2019.
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  1766. Coffee is always a good choice - at least if you are watching in the morning.
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  1767. Myron, I live in Iowa and if you follow the news, you know about our weather. If you know about Aptera, you know that it has an ABS/Traction control system that can sense wheel slip and adjust torque 32 times per wheel revolution, or about every 2.5". It is very likely to be better than my present car a two place Honda, (which I have already been out in today). Aptera is spec'd to operate down to -20F and will likely do fine even in colder weather. Many of the sub systems are tested down to -40.
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  1768.  @timothykeith1367  Merry Christmas to you! Yes, I agree. I owned a Kelmark GT copy of a Dino Ferrari that was on a VW chassis. It was fun, but about as smooth a ride as the Aptera alpha prototype we rode in and not as fast. We now drive an 1800 Gen 1 Honda Insight. I was rear ended in my first one by a SUV driver on the Interstate who fell asleep. The car was totaled, but I was uninjured. I think Aptera will be even safer, and will exceed the Honda's performance in every category. I have hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycles, and you are correct about defensive driving. I have to admit that I am not as sharp as I once was.
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  1769. Not true. Aptera Corp was founded in 2019, and design was begun on this EV. The company originally expected an initial demand in the neighborhood of 4,000 vehicles. Paid reservations exceeded 3000 in a week and quickly grew - now past 48,000. The original plan was to build the vehicle with vacuum resin infusion, as are the prototypes. Such production doesn't scale well, and production was delayed so that it could be redesigned to be produced by CPC, a Supercar builder. The quality of the production vehicles has taken a major leap. The first Production Intent vehicles will be finished soon and validation testing will start. Depending on results we should start seeing shipping by the end of 2024 or start of 2025, if not before then.
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  1770. 7 ft in the back. Enough to sleep a couple on camping trips and more than 25 cu ft of cargo space. Something we will use. The wheels outside and only three are essential to the low Cd and rolling resistance. Not a fashion statement.
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