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johnmburt1960 Yeah, yeah, I know...left wingers like you love to filibuster by asking for scores of petty "references" as a last ditch effort whenever you can't dispute the logic of an assertion. Hey, I'm about to take a shit in the bathroom, so do you want me to post a reference for that too?
No, instead of relying on others to spoon feed you everything, try to research something on your own-that is IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW. I know you left wingers are used to the idea of a nanny state where everyone does everything for you in exchange for your blind obedience but, sometimes you have to do some things on your own. Nothing's stopping you from back checking what I asserted. You're just looking for an excuse to stall for time.
Finally, just so you know, common knowledge and common sense don't need a reference. For some reason, left wingers seem to have a lot of trouble understanding that concept.
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Zachary Leatherwood You stupid POS, I was being cynical and sarcastic when I mentioned you fools believing he wants to reinstate slavery. You probably do though. You can't even figure that out and you have the nerve to complain about others? Now all you can do is copycat everything I say about you just like you do MSNBC, and CNN. I point out how you're brainwashed, and you accuse me of being "brainwashed." I point out your parroting and you say I'm "parroting." Have you ever had an original thought in your miserable life? No. You're lacking two requirements for that: 1. A brain and 2. The ability to think!
Moron, I've read his specific policies but, I was smart enough NOT to look for them on ABC NEWS. You don't know shit about his specific policies because you're a weak willed brainwashed naïve fool who believes all he reads in the news. Not my fault you can't figure shit out for yourself.
Like half of Trump detractors, you are just a secret closet racist who hopes he can cover up his insecurities by being against Trump, in hopes no one ever recognize that you are as racist as you are.
All you do is lie. You claim no one can name Trump's policies even though they've been mentioned over and over. You can't think of anything to say so you just keep lying like your goddess Hillary. People mention his term limit policy, his 1 for 2 federal regulation implementation/elimination policy, his 5 year ban on government officials lobbying, his opting out of NAFTA, his lifting restrictions of the energy sector, his cancelling federal funding to sanctuary cities, 35% middle class tax cut, his ending the offshoring act, his infrastructure rebuilding plan, his replacing "Obamacare" with something a lot better, his School choice and education act, his childcare tax deduction plan, his ending illegal immigration, his expanding the military and improving benefits for veterans policies, etc. IT'S ALL BEEN OUT THERE FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS BUT, BRAINWASHED SUBHUMAN LYING POS LIKE YOU ARE EITHER TOO DISHONEST TO ADMIT IT, TOO BRAINWASHED TO FIGURE IT OUT, OR JUST TOO GODDAMN DUMB TO UNDERSTAND IT!
ALL YOU CAN DO IS COPYCAT AND APE WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN POINTED OUT ABOUT YOU BUT, THAT'S WHAT BRAINWASHED SIMPLETONS DO. THEY DON'T HAVE AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT IN THE WORLD SO ALL THEY CAN DO IS PARROT. It's like arguing with 5 year olds after you tell them there's no such thing as Santa Claus! LMAO! UNICORN MORON!!!
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No Way Definition of murder:
The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another:
Nowhere in the definition of murder are the concepts of 'sentience' or 'awareness' to be found. You only need to be human, and alive. An unborn child satisfies both. Just because you think you can make up your own definition of murder to get out of responsibility for a selfish and evil act doesn't make it true.
So again, what I said is true. Whether the fetus is aware or not is just an obfuscation or red herring on your part. You've gone from one excuse to another and so far have still come up short.
""As we've now established, there is someone there in a womb"
No, we haven't established that, and again you've made no argument supporting that."
Now you are circling back with this latest lie. You just said that 'IT was not sentient.' NOW that's been shot down, you double back to repeat there's 'nothing there' again? You can't have it both ways. Either there's someone there or there isn't. You already admitted that 'IT'S NOT AWARE' (I.e. IT means SOMETHING) so it's too late to change it back now.
No, the Earth can support billions more comfortably. You've been brainwashed to think it's over population that's starving people but, the reality is that those populations are being raped by multi-national corporations. . . the same corporations funding the Clintons.
You say my position kills babies and I say the same about you. The difference being that the babies killed by YOUR position are killed specifically, directly and intentionally by the process you support. Any babies killed in relation to what I support are due to INDIRECT circumstances at best. Furthermore, they at least still had a bit of a chance. There have been plenty of people that were born into poverty and made it out. No baby ever came back from being aborted. Big difference. You are by far the worse one on this. Not even close.
Lying about children that are detected by ultrasound, and that can weigh many pounds by the time they are born by saying they are "imaginary," is not only barbaric but, a flat out lie. I guess the ultrasound machine that shows infants already sucking their thumbs before birth is "imaginary" too eh?
Stop trying to come up with some way to rationalize your evil and wicked ways. Face up to them and change. No one said you have to join a church but, evil is evil. Change. Stop trying to blame churches, politicians and even babies for your evil predilections. Just turn over a new leaf and move on.
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No Way {If I haven't been clear, and I think that I have, a fetus is a fetus, not a human being. It's tissue, sport.}
A comatose adult is tissue too. Again, your "logic" falls apart. And don't try the simple minded excuse a comatose person is "aware" because the very definition of comatose means they aren't aware. They aren't conscious. Duh.
{There isn't. It isn't sentient or aware and never has been. It's a fetus. You can't grasp that there isn't anything there because it isn't anything except tissue? Not a person.}
Again you move the goal posts. Before, you said "nothing." NOW it's "tissue." What happened to "nothing?" Again, you can't have it both ways. That's how murderers rationalize murder. In a serial killer's mind he isn't murdering. The NaZi's viewed killing the concentration camp victims in the same way as abortion advocates view abortion-not as murder. They rationalized it the same way. Their victims "weren't" a 'person.' You are not much different.
Again you are brainwashed. If a 16 year old has a baby, it's just as easy to put them up for adoption. Also, why assume every aborted baby was going to be born into a poverty situation? That's a convenient assumption you make in order to rationalize your iniquities. The ones that are born into poverty can be adopted, or just work their way out of poverty. Aborting (murdering) babies to keep them out of poverty makes as much sense as chopping your own head off to keep from getting a brain tumor. Do you even listen to the stuff you say?
No, Earth's SOCIETY isn't supporting all the people that are here now. There is a difference. That's not even including the free loaders you must subtract from the total. They will always be at the bottom. It's the selfish people on Earth-like ones who murder babies just so they can party-that cause poverty.
{Thumb sucking no more makes them infants than this.}
Again you try to go for the straw man argument. Both the pic you supplied and ultra sound DO show LIVING beings. Maybe they are not to the level of full grown adult humans but, they do have a life allocated to them. That's the point. You said there was nothing.
You said there was "nothing" and that's been debunked by ultra sound or just looking at a pregnant chick's belly. Now that's been established, you SWITCH to, "oh, it's not sentient, so it can't be murdered." Then that get's shot down by the definition of murder which includes NO requirement of sentience. So then you figure you can side step that, and start the same old circle of sophistry. "A fetus is tissue." So? You are too. It doesn't change anything above.
Unlike you my views aren't murdering people. THE REAL reason so many people are dying on Earth is not because of over population. it's because of the evil that some human beings do to others for petty justifications. Just because you want to party one more day and save child support money for drugs, you'll just murder an unborn child without missing a beat. No different than Nazi's, communists and common criminals who murder for a dime. But, at least a common criminal can admit what he is. You just rationalize it and think that no one can figure out what you're doing. At least the "war pigs" can admit the atrocities they are responsible for. You people are far worse. What makes it the worst of all is that you have the right to vote.
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No Way
{It's not a comatose anything. It's not a person, and your position is as far from "logic" as it can get.}
Comatose people are not aware. You said a fetus is NOT "aware." They are practically the same for the purposes of this discourse. You are trying to split hairs in order to advance a bullshit argument that's already fallen apart.
Now, YOU read THIS slowly, AND read it ALOUD:
YOU SAID THERE WAS NOTHING. IF THERE WAS NOTHING THEN WHERE ARE YOU GETTING 'IT' FROM? WHERE ARE YOU GETTING 'TISSUE' FROM? That means there IS something (i.e. not nothing). Duh. You've already contradicted yourself multiple times now.
You talk about "statistics" but, like most liberals, you lack the critical thinking ability to logically evaluate them. Have you even ever taken a true statistics and probability course? Liberals have a nasty way of turning REAL people into statistics. From there it's more easy for them to rationalize atrocities, barbarism and selfishness while playing victim themselves.
The issue here was NEVER prohibiting abortion. That's just you trying to change the subject again. Abortion is not prohibited. Go and get an abortion if that's what makes you happy. THE POINT is that if you ARE going to get or perform abortions, JUST BE HONEST about it! Call it what it is. Murder. You remind me of NaZis and Communists who similarly tried to rationalize the murders they perpetrated. Just be honest about it. That's all I'm saying.
Again, don't lie. DON'T USE SCAPE GOATS! For once in your lives TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. PEOPLE WITH YOUR MENTALITY-ONLY THINKING OF THEMSELVES. . . RATIONALIZING EXCUSES TO MURDER JUST FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT-ARE THE SOURCE OF MURDER AND SUFFERING ON THIS PLANET.
NO, we both STATED POINTS. You back pedaled, about faced and tried to obfuscate your points which were summarily shot down. I proved my points, after which you just kept lying about them. There is a difference. That's what selfish left wingers do. You say an abortion "hurts" no one but, again this is one of your deflections and tricks. Just because I'm not literally hurt by someone stealing a quarter from me, doesn't mean that it's still not stealing. Maybe a comatose person, or unborn, or sleeping person doesn't FEEL getting shot but, that doesn't change the fact that it's practically the same thing. Murder. People like you try to use sophistry and double talk to rationalize what you're doing. Just tell the truth for a change.
You talk about other countries in places like Africa but, I'm talking about here in the US. The Catholic church may not be saints but, again you find another group to scape goat. I noticed you avoided addressing adoption. What causes hunger is the corruption in the food production and distribution system. You've been brainwashed to believe it's population. At this point populations are not at the level Earth cannot support. Go investigate how tons of donated food gets wasted in so many places around the world. Go investigate how food is stolen by war lords, or poor communist central planning has killed people by the tens of millions via famine. You don't care about that though because you only care about living in the moment. . . partying, sex, drugs and rock & roll. Screw anyone who stands in the way of you having a moment of fun. You choose that instead of being a productive member of society.
Again, you imagine "imaginary" people even though it's scientifically proven a fetus is PRESENT and ALIVE in the womb. Being aware has nothing to do with being ALIVE and PRESENT (e.g. a comatose person). That's been proven and common knowledge for centuries even without modern medicine. Pregnant mothers can feel movement inside at a certain point (i.e. there is SOMETHING there-alive). The fetus is PRESENT and ALIVE, and no amount of sophistry you use can change that. You just add in the "aware" part of the argument as a slick way to rationalize your murder even though it has no logical place there. The definition of murder does not include the victim being aware though and that's why you tip toed around the definition earlier.
If you want to do abortions then that's your decision but, just don't lie about it because you think it gets you out of being the villain that you are. Take responsibility for a change.
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No Way {Again, you keep using more and more words without saying anything. It's a fetus, a fetus not a person. simple concept that you can't seem to grasp.}
Usually, more and more words have to be used for those who can't understand simple concepts. Just because you CLAIM a fetus is not a person, doesn't make it true. Got it? It's not rocket science.
{"Again, don't lie. "
I try very hard not to and certainly haven't in anything said here.}
TRY HARDER.
{"You say an abortion "hurts" no one but, again this is one of your deflections and tricks."
Who does it hurt?}
If you can't even figure that out then I can see why you have so much trouble with simple concepts. Retardation.
{Semantics again. You're playing games with what the word "alive" means. Cells are alive, certainly. A foot in a diabetic patient that is amputated is certainly alive in a sense, but not in the sense that a foot is a person. A fetus is not a person either. }
Does an amputated foot have a heart and developing brain? No. A fetus DOES. Also, a diabetic gets a say in whether they receive an amputation or not. That's not true with a fetus. Again, another specious argument for murder. Again you talk about semantics and then resort to it yourself.
It's really funny how someone who advocates and rationalizes murder talks about someone being "unhinged." I'd be willing to bet if you found out someone tried to abort you, you wouldn't like it.
What you don't get is that even IF all of your barbaric claims were true, AND THEY ARE NOT, a fetus still GROWS INTO AN ADULT. Abortion still takes away that life. Then your excuse to end starvation is to murder (abort) all the people that you claim would end up starving?!?!? WTF?!?! Using your "logic," someone should kill all people (starting with you) so they don't have to worry about dying of old age! DUH!!! "Unhinged?" You're obviously retarded.
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No Way {So, a person without a kidney or an appendix, "all the components" isn't a person? You're being overly simplistic. Awareness, cognition is what defines a person. If you have an accident and half your brain is destroyed, and you'll never wake up, is it murder to turn off the life support? Of course not, and in that case you actually have someone who at least was alive in the sense of being a person. They had a life, it's just already been taken.}
More specious sophistry. A person without a kidney is ultimately dead. A person without an appendix and kidney has most of what's needed to still function with outside assistance. A person without a kidney, appendix, ear, eye, foot and finger can still function without them. The reverse is not true. An eye, foot or appendix cannot live without the body. The rest of the body CAN live without them. It's not rocket science.
You ignored the medical info I supplied that shows the fetus has sentience before birth anyway.
{"The evidence of fetal pain"
You can pour salt on a snail and it feels "pain." An individual cell will react to stimulus.}
But, this contradicts what you said about "nothing" being there. Logic dictates that pain has to be felt by SOMETHING (as opposed to your claim of NOTHING). If "nothing" is there as you claim, then what's feeling the pain? This is something you've avoided the whole time.
Cells react to stimulus because they are LIVING cells. I noticed you left out the part about how a fetus will grab things.
{"Did you know that this 20-week-old unborn child can feel pain?"
So, you're in favor of abortion prior to 20-weeks? That's progress if it's true. }
If it's early enough, or the mother's life is in danger, then abortion is not as bad. Life begins at conception so, I'm not sure how early is appropriate. It would ideally be way, way before 20 weeks if I was for it at all.
{A fetus is still not a person, regardless of whether it feels pain or not. Whether it has toes or not. Whether it has brainwaves or not. It becomes a person, it is not one.}
Says who? You? You just make these things up without any logical or factual backing simply because it's convenient for your agenda. Reading the above I couldn't help the conjuring images of southern slave owners saying the same types of things about the slaves and NaZis using equivalent arguments to liquidate Jews.
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No Way {Your first paragraph makes no relevant point.}
Yes it does. It shows how your example doesn't hold water. Go back and read it. Read it as many times as you need to. Maybe you'll eventually figure it out. Like I said, it's not rocket science.
{You have not provided anything showing sentience before birth. It doesn't exist, sport.
Again, no point. Nothing is there. It is not sentient. It's tissue.}
Then what's feeling the pain we already discussed if "nothing's" there?
{"Cells react to stimulus because they are LIVING cells."
Yes, and it isn't murder when a cell dies either.}
It IS murder when the dead cells form a larger complex human system.
{"you left out the part about how a fetus will grab things."
So??}
So you dodged the point because it shows a fetus can do more than feel pain and you have no answer for it.
{"Says who?"
No. It isn't a person. You're imagining that it is. There's no "saying." It's not an opinion. You're just delusional.}
You dodged the question again because you have no basis in reality. Again, SAYS WHO? Instead of making things up out of thin air, offer some supporting statistics. You claimed to base your claims on statistics earlier so show some kind of proof then. You can't prove it at all. You're like a kid who refuses to believe Santa Claus is not real. Again, PROVE IT. You can't.
{German Jews were people. Black slaves were people. Again, fetuses aren't. Nothing there. It's a fetus. The comparison actually is almost offensive. You seem to think that people are defined by opinion. Sentient beings, be they Jews or Blacks or even at some point in the future possibly machines, just are people. There's nothing there with a fetus. It isn't alive in the sense that a person is. It isn't about the term it is, or whether you can anthropomorphize it. It's not a life. The analogy I used earlier, a car crash victim that will never wake up. It's that, but again, it doesn't even have life that it lived before. It's nothing like a Jewish person or a black person. They're actual living people, just like you. Please, that analogy is offensive. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You seem to have jumped to the conclusion you have, but a fetus isn't anything like a person, regardless of their ethnic group.}
Again you dodge the point. The Jews and slaves ARE people BUT, THE SLAVE STATES AND NAZIS STILL CLAIMED THEY WEREN'T PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU CLAIM UNBORN BABIES AREN'T PEOPLE! GET IT??? YOU'RE DOING THE SAME THING, JUST EXCHANGE JEWS AND SLAVES WITH FETUS! It's not rocket science.
I think you find the analogy offensive because it hit home. You know it's true but, can't come up with a legitimate explanation, hence the weak deflection attempt you offered above.
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No Way {"Then what's feeling the pain we already discussed if "nothing's" there?"
Covered this already}
No, you DODGED this already. You back pedaled from "nothing" to "tissue." Tissue is not "nothing." They are two mutually exclusive concepts. So, again, what's feeling the pain if "nothing's there?" Tissue? Tissue's not "nothing." So what's feeling the pain? Make up your mind.
{You're missing the point. You're saying a fetus feels pain. So does a cell. If reacting to stimulus doesn't prove a cell is a human being, it doesn't show a fetus is either. Lots of things feel pain.}
Yes, THINGS as opposed to NO-THING (i.e. nothing). One minute you claim "nothing's there," then you immediately switch to THINGS that are there feeling pain. You can't have it both ways. Either something's there or it's not. That's why your argument fell apart a long time ago and you still haven't connected the dots.
{No, the point has no more validity than anything else you've said. Monkeys can grab things, they aren't people. Reflex does not make a human being.}
Ummm,...do you ever listen to how unintelligent your statements are? OBVIOUSLY a fetus in a HUMAN MOTHER is NOT going to be a monkey, giraffe or ostrich fetus for Pete's sake! The fact that the fetus we are talking about is INSIDE a HUMAN mother to begin with logically means it MUST be HUMAN TOO. DUH. On top of that, the fetus feeling pain, grabbing with it's hand and more is among a bunch of proof that it's sentient. I wouldn't have to explain such obvious points to a sane and intelligent person. I know in the fantasy land of many, movies like "Rosemary's Baby" is "proof" human women can be pregnant with a non human fetus but, you've really taken things well beyond the realm of reasonability. Reflex doesn't make a human but, since we KNOW that human women can ONLY deliver a human fetus/baby, then OBVIOUSLY it must be human. Pretending that it's a monkey is simply the make believe of a small child. I think you may want to look into taking a critical thinking course.
{No, and again, an offensive analogy. You're comparing German Jews and slaves in the American South. . . Jews, slaves, all people are. . .}
EXACTLY!!! DING, DING DING!!! HELLO??? ANYBODY HOME?!?! AGAIN, THAT'S STILL WHAT THE NAZIS AND SLAVE OWNERS SAID!!! EVEN THOUGH THE JEWS ARE PEOPLE THE NAZIS STILL SAID THEY WEREN'T! JUST LIKE YOU ARE DOING WITH A HUMAN FETUS! JUST EXCHANGE "JEWS" OR "SLAVES" FOR FETUS, AND YOU GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING! JUST LIKE WE KNOW JEWS ARE PEOPLE DESPITE NAZI CLAIMS, WE ALSO KNOW A FETUS IS A PERSON DESPITE YOUR CLAIMS!!! DUH!!!!
Again, you find the comparison offensive because it excellently shows the truth about your mentality. You abortion murderers are cut from the same cloth as NaZi's and Slavers. Over the decades slave owners said slaves were less than a person and eventually that was debunked. . . in the next century the NaZis claimed Jews were less than a person and they were eventually debunked. . . NOW, in this century, abortion murderers like you claim a fetus is less than a person and hopefully we can stop you and your crimes as well-just like what was done with first the slavers, and later the NaZis.
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+TheNavigateur LOL...you are a very naïve person...you remind me of/sound like all those people who thought communism and socialism would make the world some kind of utopia...no more hunger...no more homelessness...no more unemployment...no more discrimination...everyone would be equal! LOL! Large parts of the worlds population "tried" socialist and communist principles for decades...China, the USSR...from Croatia to Cuba they all found out the REALITY of such ideas. Socialism/Communism made them all EQUALLY POOR...it took away their personal RIGHTS...and made them all SLAVES of the state! Now here you come with basically the same old poppycock that most people discovered (some the easy way and some the hard way) a long time ago doesn't work. First, this is NOT a democracy as you've been programmed to think. IT'S A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. Next, who do you think invented all the "isms?" Communism, socialism and more were all invented by powerful people to control the masses. What you say about capitalism is true except for one thing, what you describe is MONOPOLISM, NOT TRUE CAPITALISM. We have monopolism here but, you've been tricked into thinking it's pure capitalism...even worse you've been tricked into thinking this is a democracy. Democracy is simply MOB RULE...RULE OF THE IGNORANT...Obama being proof of how that can happen. We have aspects of democracy but, we are a republic. The democracy you think would be so beneficial would in reality be easily and quickly hijacked by the powers that be and turned into something far worse than what we have now. The ONLY thing that has slowed their roll up to this point is the US constitution, which they have been slowly chipping away at with bullshit like the ADA, "patriot" act, STUPID gun control agendas, executive orders and more. Hordes of ignorant and naïve fools rush to slit their own throats in support of these things and the elites get closer and closer to their goals of world domination every year. Stop slitting your own throat. Think for yourself. Trump's giving is a lot better than what you would really get under the system you THINK will benefit you.
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+TheNavigateur Trump will be no more increasing rule by the rich or stealing oil than Sanders, Clinton or Bush. The argument against democracy has already been supplied by the Roman experience. Democracy is rule of the ignorant. I don't know about you but, I don't want the current generation of pot smoking, pop drinking, pill popping, video game playing, movie watching morons having a vote on the American or my own future. Giving up or just going straight democracy is a false choice between two extremes. As JFK once said, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. As long as people are lazy and greedy, selfish, base, weak willed and dishonest, the powers that be will EASILY use their vices against them...tell them they're getting "democracy"...tell them they'll get free stuff if only they support tearing down the constitution...they ignorant masses will believe lies like the Bill of Rights is "obsolete"...they'll will rush forward to vote down the Bill of rights...vote down the constitution, naively thinking they're getting free health care...free college...guaranteed jobs...subsidized food...and get out of jail free cards when they commit murder. In the end all they will have done is ended up with none of those empty promises...AND NO civil liberties left either. They will be reduced to slaves in a new techno-feudal society all because they thought they could get a free lunch. No...people are too savage, primitive, childish, banal, simpleminded and evil to handle pure democracy at this point in human history. Democracy is rule of the ignorant and there are plenty of ignorant people out there. That's the best reason to seek another solution. It's already here. It's called the constitution...it's when this compact started being violated that you opened the door to all the excesses of the rich and elite you cite.
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+TheNavigateur Yes, there was enough intelligence before 9/11 to stop it. There were Minnesota and other FBI field agents who discovered information that they were told to back off of...And you use cherry picked narratives to illustrate your "points". You talk about how all these other intelligence methods can be used to compliment each other but, when you switch to the torture side of it, suddenly it can only be used by itself. You're like a guy saying, "Driving to work in this blizzard is impossible but, If I walk 3 miles to buy some snow shoes, walk another 10 miles to the bank and withdraw my life savings...walk another 10 miles to the snowmobile dealer and buy a snow mobile, all that stuff used in conjunction with each other culminating in the snowmobile is way more reliable to get me to work in this blizzard than just trying to drive my car!" First, torture can be used in conjunction with other forms of intelligence too. It's worked for the Allies and Axis in WWII so that disproves your whole claim it's totally useless. Information gained from torture is naturally cross referenced with other information and then determined whether it's actionable or not. What do you think intelligence ANALYSTS are for? Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Next, when other forms or intelligence are used, sometimes they cannot be corroborated with supporting info depending on the situation. It's not rocket science. ALL FORMS OF INTELLIGENCE HAVE THEIR PROS AND CONS. Torture has worked for cops, mobsters, national governments and even the Catholic church for centuries. It may not be 100% reliable but, it's more than 0% reliable. Hard to argue with history! I'M NOT SAYING IT'S THE BEST WAY...I'M JUST SAYING YOUR CLAIM THAT IT NEVER WORKS IS FALSE. History has proven such.
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+TheNavigateur Again you cherry pick situations set up to prove your specious point. Of course if a guy doesn't know an answer to a question when he's being tortured he can't give the right answer but...but...BUT...WHAT ABOUT THE TIMES WHEN THE PRISONER DOES KNOW THE ANSWER? HELLO?!?! You've bought into too much of the media hype. Also, much information can be confirmed after the fact. For example, if information tortured out of a guy is in doubt, consultation of files from another agency or department may yield a pattern...maybe the tortured information corroborates separate info obtained from a wire tap and purloined enemy hard drives. HELLO?!?! Maybe the tortured information is filed away and 5 months later a defector shows up with papers that confirm the tortured info. HELLO?!?! It's not rocket science. The Japanese were fooled by false SIGINT the US NAVY used in WWII as just one example of how any intelligence can be wrong, so don't assume ELINT or SIGINT is 100% reliable. Much of it is falsified to throw off the opposition. AGAIN, NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. As further evidence against your assertion, in just ONE RECENT EXAMPLE, use of "torture" on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles. This is documented. Sorry Charlie...if what you say is true, this would have never happened. AGAIN, TORTURE CAN WORK. DON'T CONFUSE THE FACT THAT SOMETHING IS NOT PERFECT FOR IT BEING TOTALLY USELESS. Stare at a hot chick at the wrong time, and your wife kicks you in the balls with her stilettos enough times, you're going to admit your eyes lingered on the steak house waitress a few seconds too long . Torture does work in the right situations...
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+TheNavigateur Funny...you say my LA claim was "completely unsubstantiated" but, why? Because YOU say so? Can YOU substantiate that torture has never worked in this case or any other? No. And remember, most of this stuff is "top secret" so you could hide behind that excuse all day. The CIA openly attributed the LA bust success to the interrogation techniques so deny all you want...but, if that's not enough for you, here's a WWII account:
Fretting over
waterboarding, writes British historian Andrew Roberts, obscures the fact that
"enhanced interrogation techniques" have saved thousands of lives in
every war. Plus, read Michael Korda's review of Roberts' book Masters and
Commanders: How Churchill, Roosevelt, Alanbrooke and Marshall Won the War in
the West, 1941-45.
A
slight air of unreality has permeated the debate over “enhanced interrogation
techniques” in the war against terror, with historians embarrassedly studying
their toecaps over the issue. For the truth is that there has not been a war in
history in which torture has not been employed in some form or another, and
sometimes to excellent effect. When troops need information about enemy
capabilities and intentions—and they usually need it fast—moral and ethical
conventions (especially the one signed in Geneva in 1929) have repeatedly been
ignored in the bid to save lives.
In the conflict generally
regarded today as the most ethical in history, World War II, enhanced
interrogation techniques were regularly used by the Allies, and senior
politicians knew it perfectly well, just as we now discover that Nancy Pelosi
did in the early stages of the war against terror. The very success of the
D-Day landings themselves can largely be put down to the enhanced interrogation
techniques that were visited upon several of the 19 Nazi agents who were
infiltrated into Great Britain and “turned” by the British Secret Intelligence
Service (SIS) between 1939 and 1945. Operation Fortitude—the deception plan
that fooled the Germans into stationing 450,000 Wehrmacht troops 130 miles north
of the Normandy beaches—entirely depended upon German intelligence (the Abwehr)
believing that the real attack was going to take place at the Pas de Calais
instead. The reason that Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, the head of the Abwehr, was
utterly convinced of this, was because every single one of his 19 agents, who
he did not know had been turned, told him so.
If anyone believes that SIS
persuaded each of these 19 hard-bitten Nazi spies to fall in with Operation
Fortitude by merely offering them tea, biscuits, and lectures in democracy,
they’re being profoundly naïve.
An
SIS secret house located in Ham Common near Richmond on the outskirts of London
was the location where the will of those agents was broken, using advanced
interrogation techniques that reportedly started with sleep deprivation but
went on to gross mental and physical abuse. The result? Many thousands of
Allied servicemens’ lives were saved because the German 15th Army stayed well
away from beaches such as Omaha,
Utah, and Sword. And another
100,000 others were stationed in Norway for another attack that
never came.
Another example of how wrong you are.
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+TheNavigateur LOL...so you expect to believed over a bona fide HISTORIAN and OXFORD EDUCATED WRITER WITH EXPERIENCE IN BRITISH INTELLIGENCE? Lol? Typical that you call such experts "maniacs" just because they expound upon well accepted thought and documented history that easily disproves your naïve fantasies about war and intelligence gathering. Had they agreed with you, no doubt your response would be much different. No...it makes EVERY LOGICAL SENSE...just because you can't (or won't?) figure it out doesn't change its legitimacy. After over twelve hours this is the best excuse you could muster? No, my c/p makes perfect sense to the sensible. Reduced to grasping at straws, your rationalizations become even more desperate. Having reviewed the basic history of what happened, any savvy person can see that interrogation was just part of the bigger operation. It states in the text torture was used to get information but, the reader is assumed to be savvy enough to recognize the obvious even if it wasn't stated. Quite simply, IN ORDER FOR THE ALLIES TO HAVE PULLED OFF SUCH A DECEPTION, IT WAS NECESSARY FOR THEM TO PERFORM INTERROGATIONS FROM THE START. IF YOU ARE GOING TO PULL OFF SUCH A STUNT, YOU NEED TO DETERMINE THE CLASSIFIED KNOWLEDGE (ORDERS, CONTACTS, SUPPORT AGENTS, CODES, COMMAND STRUCTURES, RENDEZVOUS POINTS, ETC.) OF THE PRISONERS IF ONLY TO MAKE SURE THE CAPTURED AGENTS DON'T SURREPTITIOUSLY SABOTAGE THE WHOLE EFFORT VIA CONTINGENCY PLANS. FURTHERMORE, YOU NEED INTERROGATED INFO IN ORDER TO MAKE THE CON JOB BELIEVABLE TO THE ENEMY HQ SO THEY WON'T GET WISE IN GENERAL. OF COURSE THERE WAS INTERROGATION AND YOUR ATTEMPTS TO SPIN IT OTHERWISE ARE LAUGHABLE. As for "code sounds in speech," what do you think the NaZi agents were doing, calling home collect from a pay phone hanging in the police detention center? Lol. Dude...LMAO...again, you've been watching too many James Bond movies. Such agents (on both sides) in those kinds of situations communicated via Morse code like SW radio set ups and/or dead drops. No "code sounds in speech" applied in this scenario...the NaZi "spies" were on the other side of the English channel for crying out loud. No interrogation to such a vast operation? Code sounds in speech? Lol. Of course there was interrogation here...the HISTORIAN KNOWS IT...THE OXFORD EDUCATED WRITER WHO EVALUATED WHAT HAPPENED KNOWS IT...AND ANYONE BEING HONEST WHO'S READ THE ACCOUNT KNOWS IT TOO. You are grasping at straws. So again, yet another example of how torture did yield not only valuable information, but ALSO helped successfully run and complete what's known as a textbook CI operation.
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+TheNavigateur No way you are really this asinine. You have unsurprisingly reduced yourself to circular logic. If torture doesn't work, then how could this have happened? And don't say it didn't because the example this historian examines is well known in history. If someone throws something "up" and it keeps going up, AND YOU SEE IT KEEP GOING "UP," THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE HANGING UPSIDE DOWN. It doesn't mean you just disproved gravity. You are like a guy who claims cats don't eat mice. You are SHOWN a cat eating a mouse but, instead of then saying, "Hey. Okay, I see your point now, cats DO eat mice. I was wrong," like normal people would do, you respond with ridiculous circular "logic" by saying, "Since cats don't eat mice, the MOUSE I SEE the cat eating right now in front of my very eyes is therefore obviously eating a COW." You lack even the most fundamental of critical thinking skills. Explains a lot...
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+TheNavigateur My bad...just when I try to give you some benefit of the doubt, you manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory! Lol. According to your logic, there's no longer a need for ink pens then, because key boards and voice dictation are available now days. There's no need for shoes because cars, bikes, trains, buses, and airplanes mean we don't need walking in the first place any more. Hello? Anybody home? No...even though light bulbs are more reliable than candles or lanterns, in a power outage candles are still useful. Bicycles are still used by militaries, police and especially civilians around the world for general transportation even though far more effective forms of transportation are now available. You still don't understand that even if you had enough undercover sources the WHOLE POINT OF CROSS CHECKING THEM IS THAT THEY MAY BE UNCONFIRMED/COMPROMISED TO BEGIN WITH. Eight year olds can understand that. Additionally, YOU MAY NOT EVEN HAVE ANY OTHER ALTERNATIVE INTELLIGENCE SOURCE BESIDES TORTURE IN SUCH A SITUATION TO BEGIN WITH.
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+TheNavigateur Again you cherry pick what you want to believe...What about MI6 files (not just MI5)? Even if torture wasn't mentioned, that's a neutral...if it wasn't mentioned, that means they didn't say it never happened just as much as they never said it did happen. The Mafia never admitted that there was a mafia up until about the '50s or '60s so does that mean they never existed? No. Even now they don't admit to their own crime, and they don't keep records that coule be used against them in court. the mob doesn't exist? Cops you've illegally beat (i.e. tortured) suspects but, they don't put it in the official reports. Does that mean it's never happened? No. Cops regularly let Judges and rich people out of traffic tickets but, that's not recorded either. Doesn't mean it's not true? That's why the historian guy said you'd have to be pretty naïve to believe no torture happened in Fortitude even if there was no evidence of it at all...and that's what I've been saying. He even named specific interrogation techniques like sleep deprivation and such...because it happened. As for the prisoners saying there was torture, Guantanamo Bay guys were free to be interviewed if the press could get access. In WWII, unlike now, there was a WORLD WAR and the government had full control of the press-NOT TO MENTION THAT THE FORTITUDE PRISONERS WERE IN BRITAIN AS OPPOSED TO BEING DETAINED BY THE US IN CURRENT TIMES. BRITISH LAW IS MORE STRICT THAN US LAW IN GENERAL. FOR EXAMPLE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT. You continually oversimplify or pick and choose what you want to point out-and even then it's often wrong. Next, you use MI5 records as part of your argument but, the CIA records that say they stopped the LA terrorist attacks by torturing Kalid Sheikh MoHammed you don't want to believe. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS...AND I NOTICED YOU COULDN'T DISPROVE BUCKLEY divulging information either. You say that only proves torture isn't effective OVERALL. Once again you back pedal...all I've said from the start was that it CAN work (not whether it's effective overall or not). Thanks for proving my point AGAIN. No...left wing people just come up with excuse after excuse not to believe sources of information ONLY when CONVENIENT FOR THEM. For example, they regularly criticize Fox news but, the moment Fox says something they like they jump on the fox band wagon...or they use smear tactics to try to discredit any source of info that disproves their slanted agenda. "Hey! He has a wrinkle on his shirt so he's wrong!" Lol. You've NEVER had any credibility on this subject as you've either come up with petty and/or manufactured excuses to discount sources of information (only when it contradicts you) or not even understanding the most elementary concepts of intelligence gathering or critical thinking. Typical left wing mentality. Now that the Buckley case has been cited, you want to try to run away. This is what happens when you have someone else do your thinking for you. Instead of making up fibs that everyone who disproves your erroneous beliefs is a "psychopath" (which sounds very Freudian), try to learn what's really happening as opposed to just being programmed with left wing fantasy propaganda without question or thought.
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+TheNavigateur You're still talking around PROOF. For example, what your diversions DON'T include about the more reliable methods of interrogation is that A: They require experienced and specially trained interviewers. Such personnel usually need to be called in (WHICH TAKES TIME) and even then, there is often a wait list due to the number of prisoners up for interrogation. This is especially true if interpreters or bilingual interviewers are required. B: The first part of the more reliable methods of interrogation you mention are used to psychologically, physically and intellectually, evaluate the prisoner, as well as determine his value in terms of what he knows. Just this part of it TAKES EVEN MORE TIME. C: Once the actual specific interrogation goals are attempted, this part can take weeks, months and even YEARS in some cases. Altogether, we are talking about a long time for the "more reliable methods of interrogation" you cite. If a kidnapper says they are going to kill you "in one hour," then you have NO chance unless you try the less reliable (but, faster) method of torture. A 10% chance is better than a 0% chance in this scenario. Just because something is more reliable doesn't make it the best method in EVERY situation...nor does efficiency automatically equate to reliability. Cars are more efficient than horses or camels but, that doesn't change the fact camels are often better for the desert and mules are still popular in rough mountain territory. Lighters are more efficient than matches but, run out of lighter fluid and you're out of luck. Again, you've been reading too many Time magazine articles. WHEN YOU INCLUDE THE NECESSARY SET UP, AND ALLOW FOR THE PROCEDURES OF NON TORTURE, IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME. So again, instead of trying to talk around it, SHOW PROOF the more reliable methods take less time.
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Dan Underwood In other words you're mad because your hypocrisy is exposed. You oversimplify the thing about Obama care being based on the "Republican model," but, then you try to talk your way out of the NaZi dilemma all you socialists can't get around. The original NaZis preached against big business and much of the same crap current socialists complain about. The Weimar was socialist but, the reason why the NaZi version became popular was that the Weimar republic managed to ruin the German economy and more...all in just the short time since the Kaiser ran away. Hyperinflation, crime and corruption ruled the day like it does in all socialist planned economies. Only the naïve believe in socialist bull crap.
People like you who've never done a real job in your life and watch too many rerun episodes of Dynasty, Dallas and various "reality" shows, know nothing of the amount of work business people like Trump put into each work day. Spend one day trying to run your own company or even being the manager of someone else's and see if you even get 4 hours of sleep in per night. Like most LAZY and JEALOUS people you see the FRUITS of someone else's labor and assume that someone just came and gave it all to them because you didn't see the LABOR ITSELF. You make up and/or eat up a bunch of class warfare brainwashing from the left because you WANT to believe a bunch of crap that VALIDATES your own, laziness, jealousy and ineptitude. You want to live off the hard work of others like the scum you are...and then you have the NERVE...the AUDACITY...the GALL...to get mad when someone else doesn't want to pull your worthless weight. Stop HATING on Trump because he was born with something you weren't. Too F'N bad! Get up and do something with your worthless life instead of crying like a little pig because no one will live your life for you.
I would say YOU are the one who needs to read a book...a non socialist propaganda book...but, that matters not to mind numbed robots like you. Reading matters not when you DON'T possess the CRITICAL THINKING ability that NECESSARILY goes along with it. Learn CRITICAL THINKING...learn READING CONPREHENSION...and then maybe...JUST MAYBE we can talk about reading...and judging from how much you've been entrained to parrot so many simple minded socialist talking points, it's probably too late for you anyway. Just keep being a worthless, lazy, jealous, free loading POS like most of you retarded, drug addicted scumbags...
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Emma Bancroft Like the typical gun control zealot your betray your hypocrisy straight out of the gate. First, you claim I have no evidence to support my "wild accusations" while you simultaneously have no evidence that I have no evidence to begin with. The fact that you don't want to acknowledge evidence is not the same as me not having evidence.
Second, yeah...if what you claim about your background is true, that only means that YOU had access to firearms for a long time when YOU benefitted from them. Maybe YOU were able to get PAID on a JOB that required firearms (e.g. security, police, etc.)...or maybe you were just in a situation that dictated having a gun was the wise and safe choice (e.g. delivery person or business owner)...the problem is that NOW you feel YOU don't need guns anymore, you don't want anyone else to have them even though they may be in situations they feel dictate they have some sort of self defense like you were. How can someone be so openly hypocritical with a straight face?
You have "successfully avoided" unwelcome sexual advances in your '60s? Stop and think about that assertion for a moment....really? I mean really? That's easy to say when you're in your '60s but, unless you're Raquel Welch or someone like that, it's like a blind person saying they've "managed to avoid unwelcome" job offers from airline companies wanting pilots. Tell that to the pretty girl still in her '20s or '30s getting followed home in the dark. You've had your heyday and when you did you self admittedly had firearms to protect yourself...now that YOU don't feel the need anymore, you want to force your views on everyone else with a double standard. That takes nerve.
Finally, having a gun for self defense does not necessitate shooting anyone...the fact that you say you were in gun fights, and you assume shooting someone is the only option suggests a lot about your own mentality. Don't assume that just because you may have been trigger happy everyone else will be. I've been in self defense situations where I didn't need to fire a shot. Don't assume that because you may have been irrational with guns, everyone else is going to be.
Gun control is not sane...it's a naïve politically correct knee jerk reaction...it's dumb.
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Emma Bancroft And...I called the buffoon I commented on what I did because of what I explained earlier. Why do you get to call someone something because of what they say but, not anyone else?
As far as "racist" goes, maybe the NJ Guy showed evidence of prejudice but, that's not the exact same as racism. Do you know what a true racist is? If you live in 1930s Germany and you say too many Germans support NaZis, that doesn't mean you are racist against all Germans, even if you say it in a mean way. The way NJ Guy chose to make his statement may not have been all warm and fluffy but, his reference to who's doing the gang rapes in Europe was still accurate. No...I don't agree that such statements automatically make one a racist...and that doesn't automatically make me one because you say so. Maybe NJ Guy is a racist and maybe he's not. I don't know for sure at this point.
You see, what you socialists are used to is using the threat of calling people "racist" to get your way like spoiled brats who count on their parents giving them whatever toy they want just to shut up their screaming. When your specious arguments fall apart the only way you can salvage a "debate" or argument is to call the other person something like "racist" in hopes they will then concede the exchange out of fear of being thought to be a racist. When socialists like yourself start calling people "racists," that is the tantrum phase of your arguments. And it's very ironic that you feign wondering if you're talking to an adult amidst one of these tantrums. Yes, I'm adult...but, maybe you're used to so many children seeing the flaws in your arguments that you thought I was one too out of habit?
Simply, a socialist is someone that believes society should provide each person as dictated by his or her own need. This is theory however...the reality is that socialists in the US are a bunch of lazy, drug addicted loafers who want to hide behind claims of oppression by the rich in order to validate their dreams of doing nothing but, getting high and playing video games all their lives. You may not be a socialist in the strictest sense of the term...maybe you are not a card carrying member...but, your views as espoused here at least put you in that category in a more general sort of way. Gun control is one of the major planks of socialism...immediately calling people racist (as opposed to prejudiced) in an argument is a common behavioral trait of socialists...and so are routine double standards. I think we both know you are a socialist...or a reasonable facsimile thereof.
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*****
MORONESE: "It's seems like I'm talking to a wall here and everything I say you seem to not get but what do you expect I'm talking to a Trump supporter.
I'm not going to argue my points anymore because I know no matter what I say you're to stubborn to see."
TRANSLATION TO ENGLISH: "OMG! LiChoiFungfan just systematically shot down everything I said and I can't think of anything to say! I'll just throw out some shallow slogans and insults and hope no one notices! Yeah, that's the ticket! Bernie 2016!"
It looks like you're just taking your ball and going home-at least until your socialist student organizations and NPR tell you what to think next. You say the Trump people are looked down on but, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts you've seen his TV show. Trump people are looked down upon by a bunch of ignorant people who want to believe a lot of left wing propaganda that validates their self perceived deficiencies. You are actually worse than the NaZis you accuse others of being...you don't try to LEARN, you just try to VALIDATE. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Anyone that disagrees with you-or even "worse," logically debunks any of your naïve assertions you claim is "stubborn," while any weak willed non-thinking drone that automatically agrees with any of your propaganda without question, you instantly proclaim to be "educated" or "on the right track." Please.
Your 4.0 ultimately means nothing if you don't possess the ability to think along with it. I work for a big company and have seen scores of new college grads come in with all kinds of accolades, awards and high GPAs that get let go or even quit, because they couldn't hack it in the real world. If you really don't hang out getting drunk then that's fine but, that's even less of an excuse to be as uninformed as you are. "Millennials" like you are the ones looked down upon...employers constantly complain about poor millennial work ethics...too many of you are spoiled and walk around with misguided senses of entitlement.
You are so naïve that you openly brag that "college isn't easy." LMAO! Time to grow up honey! From this point on, COLLEGE WILL PROBABLY BE THE EASIEST THING YOU WILL EVER DO. When you get out into the real world, you'll find out that things aren't as rosy as you'd like to think...you'll find out how crappy all of this politically correct BS you're spewing really is. That's not even considering that college is EASIER than it used to be by far. Heck, there was a time when there was no E-mail, no computers or cell phones...students had to write things out by hand...they had to actually DO their homework on their own...they didn't have all the aids and resources you enjoy today. They couldn't just memorize...they had to actually KNOW the material.
Honey, I'm almost old enough to be your dad...I have an Engineering degree from a major university and I worked a job through most of it. You don't know what tough is. A pretty face will only get you so far. You better learn that right now.
Let's just face it...the real reason you're taking your ball and going home is because not only have all your hypocritical arguments been shot down but, you have been given a taste of your own medicine. You complain about "negativity" when you started out with the same...look at the negativity you put on Trump supporters without truly trying to find out about them...it's ignorant...you like to scream negative insults and accuse Trump supporters of being "rednecks," "neo-nazis" and more and then you wonder why you get it back...then you want to play victim. Instead of acting like the ignorant racists you accuse others of being, try to learn where some people are coming from for a change. As long as you are negative and toxic when dealing with others, then don't have the nerve to get mad when you get a taste of your own medicine...so of course people will find a problem with you being the mayor of your town if you're constantly riding them about how many wrinkles they have on the back of their T-shirt or jeans. I don't discredit you...YOU discredit YOURSELF...I just point it out. An ancient Chinese saying for you..."Don't mistake the finger pointing at the moon, for the moon itself."
Don't think a 4.0 is the key to a happy life...it can be a big advantage but, to many it was not what they thought it would be...it's just the beginning of a long road which you start on after college. Change your closed mind and self absorbed mentality...THAT will be the key to you having a happy life...In other words, mature...GROW UP!
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Cheyenne Croushorn And you are even worse than they are...I mean you are a buffoon. You correct me on what you call a(...) [WTF!?!? Lol!] when it is really called an ELLIPSES. Got it? ELLIPSES! It's not called (...) like you used. Know the terminology if you are going to criticize people. Next, you said it's annoying when I use (...) and I'm supposed to have spaces between the periods like "so, . . ."
Well, you can use an ELLIPSES without the spaces in between if it follows a comma, therefore IN YOUR VERY OWN EXAMPLE. . .[I used spaces, so you can stop whining] In your very own zeal to find some trivial straw to grasp, you ended up sticking your big foot in your own mouth! Your own example you were using to correct me with was wrong. . . and this is what is all too common about anti-trump people. . . they are hypocrites to the bone. Now let's move on to the next item while you wipe that egg off of your face. . .
Your next problem is pointing out how I told that one girl she would be deported. What a deceitful person like you left out was all the nasty crap she said about hoping I'd die, and all kinds of crap about old people needing to croak. Of course that was okay to you because you are a hypocrite like she was. Of course you left that out. Then you left out all the crap the Hungarian dirt bag said about me, and of course you left out how he tried to challenge me to a fight (typical violent anti-Trump cretin) and how he said I was the NaZi first. What about all of that? This is part of why I support Trump. The people who protest him are cretins so that ups his stock on my exchange.
Finally-the worst of all-you tell some LIE about how I never said he was subhuman. I don't deny that about him because that's what he is. . . I never tried to retract that because that's what I really think about those kinds of "people." People who start crap up and then have the nerve to get mad when they get it back are savages. . .and that's kinda what you seem to be turning out to be.
So, ya wanna talk about what's "annoying?" What's annoying is a hypocritical lying drone who comes on spewing a bunch of retarded lies, hypocrisy and insanity thinking no one can figure her out. A six year old can see through all of your juvenile posturing and bull crap. Like the other trick whom I told would be deported, you come on here trying to act all nice when you're really very nasty and wicked below the surface. Take your witches brew of weak willed sophomoric stupidity, ignorance, lies and hypocrisy back to your buddies at the opium den where you'll find someone dumb enough to fall for it. Liar.
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+mrno69 And that is why I don't spoon feed people anymore...aside from them being too lazy to do their own work, usually they are just hoping you can't find a source so they can hide behind that as their argument. If you do find a source, then they complain you didn't find two. If you find two, then it becomes, why didn't you find three?,...and so on and so on. The Trump people aren't doing it stupid,...they just aren't doing it politically correct. You wanted source info so you got it,...1968 Democratic Convention Riots. Try Kent State if you don't like that,...or all the Vietnam vets that got spit on in the '60s and '70s. Go do your own homework,...Obama made those statements in 2008. You don't want to do it because the whole point of left-wingers asking for sources is NOT to learn but, only because you are hoping people can't supply any, and to hide behind that as an argument.
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mrno69 Where did I say that you said you were a left-winger? Sorry but, in the real world you need to take responsibility for your self and your actions. I mentioned stuff from years ago and I mentioned stuff that's more recent, so don't act like it was all from years ago. Don't try to change the subject. You asked for some kind of citations or sources, and now that you got it, you talk about excusing Trump's actions. He needs no excuse but, what's yours? Saturday there was a Trump rally where anti-Trump idiots shut down a highway. This goes beyond just targeting Trump. Shutting down a street or highway screws up everyone, and that means most people who aren't even involved in the political crap. People were made to be late for work, or to pick up their kids from baseball practice, or whatever, all because Anti-Trump idiots want to prove they are "heros" saving the world from an imagined "evil." There are examples all around you from today, yesterday or yesteryear but, you continually ask for "sources." No,...that's just a set up you use in hopes of an easy way out of any debate. You call Trump supporters a "cult" when it's the Sanders and BLM people who are smoking all the weed, popping pills, getting drunk, blocking traffic and disrupting the events of others. You are right, there is no logical rationalizing with Trump supporters as far as you're concerned. You have to be logical to try something like that. So instead, you just rationalize. You rationalize every hypocritical lie and stupid thing you do.
You want sources? Just open your eyes, and stop telling lies.
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Icouldn'tthinkofaname It's not a debate-just stating the facts. The sources I sent you were not of pro-lifers starting fights. If you read them you'll see it was the pro-abortionists starting the fights. Planned parenthood was a focus of the media not because of their violence at events though. There was a video of a PP person apparently selling baby parts which is such a travesty that even the left-wing news had to at least do minimal coverage of it. Additionally, much of the liberal news coverage was mainly trying to do damage control for PP as opposed to really being interested in getting to the bottom of things. Most of the real critical investigation was done by more conservative outlets. If it weren't for outlets like Fox leading the way then there may have been no coverage at all.
As for the violence at Trump rallies, have you ever stopped to realize that all this violence involves "protestor" thugs who show up to TRUMP events? When have the Trump people EVER shown up at a Sanders or Clinton event? When? There is a REASON why it always happens at Trump events-because the "protestors" come LOOKING for trouble. Finally, when some get sick of it and get a little out of hand, the media spins it as Trump people getting violent. I don't blame Trump at all for backing his supporters and vice versa. That's what so many people like about him, he apparently isn't afraid to stand up to the politicians, the establishment, the lying left-wing media, and even the thug "protesters" that come to ruin his events. Toss in that the main "protestors" causing the trouble are often Soros paid rent-a-thugs and it's not hard to see that the establishment might be a bit worried about Trump, so they are trying to smear him.
TYT is merely a front for the left-wing establishment to run smear campaigns on people. It appeals to mainly weak willed, naïve and uneducated "millennials" who like to get high and drunk in their parents' basement while unemployed.
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Icouldn'tthinkofaname LMAO! Still coming with the sophomoric reverse psychology crap eh? "It worked?" So you admit you were never trying to learn anything. Lol. For real? No kidding? NO! You lie! Not you! Lol.
So let's get this straight,...you pop up, you say a bunch of fake hypocritical shit, then you toss in a bunch of insults, and then when you get a taste of your own medicine you run around proclaiming, "It worked!" at the top of your lungs? Lol. I see,...you're that dope who walked up to a cop and punched him in the face and when you wound up in jail you screamed, "I did it! It worked! You're the literal archetype of why people hate cops!" LMAO! Okay, you punched a cop in the face but, what's the point? To prove cops are a certain way? This is something already believed by a lot of people so what did it get you? A night in jail. Lol. What a moron.
I "made your dreams come true?" Lol. You're going to "frame" this? LMAO! You "can't wait for my response?" ROTFLMAO! Dude,...all jokes aside,...GET A LIFE. Your whole "life" revolves around my responses and what I do? LMAO! What a loser. Damn,...I mean, like do you have ANY friends at all? Lol. What a loser.
Can the reverse psychology con job moron,...I know you think because you fall for this juvenile crap that everyone else does too. NOT! Obviously you're just trying to validate your own ignorance and stupidity. You "can't wait to see my response?" Lol. No loser, you are really just AFRAID of my response and need to psych yourself up for what was to come. I see punks like you all the time, and they're always a dime a dozen. Quick to do something stupid and even quicker to bitch out on taking responsibility for it-which is the reason you never wise up. You knew that I'd just say the same thing others have said about you already. I've already said it about you in my previous post in fact,...and you already pointed out how you avoided all my points yourself (did you think that because you said that on your own it makes it any less true?). Lol. If you have to try this hard to validate your bullshit then you're obviously a victim of buying into a lot of dumb shit. That's what happens when you're stupid. If you have to try this hard using simple minded reverse-psychology to trick me into not responding (thus making you face your stupidity) then you must be pretty desperate to be let off the hook-and pretty weak willed! Lol. Too bad, idiot.
The problem you're too juvenile and stupid to realize is that you only proved why so many people are seeing why Anti-Trump people are jokes. You're not about solutions or learning. You're only about validating your own weak willed naivety, lies and stupidity. As icing on the cake, you demonstrate how you slugs are epitomes of immaturity and idiocy. I saw and called you out as soon as you came on with your fake bullshit. You fooled no one, and now here you come trying to bullshit people into thinking you were "only trying to see what I'd do." LMAO! Surrrre. Riiiight! Anything you say little tike. Lol. Thanks for proving Trump right yet again buffoon.
What's maybe even more pathetic though, is your desperate attempt at deflection. . . Your puerile attempt to shift focus from your inability to explain all your stupid points I easily shot down is even worse than the original retardation you began with! Lol. No moron,...these political discussions are not for kids. Go play with your Batman action figures and leave the adult stuff to the grown-ups. Now frame that, loser! Lol.
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+Radu Popescu Ummm..."cheap" or not, When you have poor people constantly running around with smart phones (not just cell phones but, smart phones), cases full of pop, candy bars and Doritos, while they ignore education, fruits and vegetables and jobs they don't want because they'd rather play $200 video games while their rent isn't paid, don't try to blame the food. You are slightly right in that the food they eat is packed with processed sugars, sodium and fats but, NO ONE FORCED THEM TO EAT THAT STUFF WHETHER CHEAP OR NOT. How about a carrot instead of a candy bar? Also, even if it's cheap and packed with all that stuff, when you eat 10 times the recommended serving then the food becomes expensive by default of the amount and even foods not so bad for you in smaller quantities STILL make one fat. No...the poor people here are fat because a big segment of the politicians-most of them socialist democrat-buy votes from a lot of these lazy and greedy people in exchange for subsidies...then when they end up with diabetes, heart disease and needing transplants, here come the socialist politicians again with "Free health care" that the rest of us have to pay for even though we tried to be responsible with our lives. The food is bad but, don't use it as an excuse....a very poor excuse.
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+Radu Popescu 1. You mean like they do in Japan...oh wait...those people actually work for a living. How about someone comes and takes all your money and gives it to every bum in your area? Then the bums wouldn't need subsidies right? If you redistributed the billions from the top 1% then YOU WOULD STILL BE SUBSIDIZING, ONLY IN A DIFFERENT WAY. I find it funny how so many people are all for redistributing SOMEBODY ELSE'S WEALTH...but, rarely their own (if they have anything to begin with). 2. The system is rigged but, ONLY because of people's greed and stupidity. The only difference between the "top 1%" and so many of these bleeding heart activists is that the top 1% was smart enough to realize their greed and the rest are just mad they couldn't do it, so they want to try to take what someone else earned (or swindled). 4. Republicans know that a lot of the so called "poor" are just a bunch of worthless freeloaders who will eat the country to death from the inside if you keep giving them smart phones, soda pop, and video games while the rest of us have to work. 6. No...the other countries have figured out ways to be the "popular parent" that spoils kids only to have them grow up fat, lazy, unemployed, poorly educated, rude and with a mouth full of rotting teeth. At first it was cool but, now these other countries have a whole sector of people unemployed, committing crimes and the countries are in many cases on the brink of bankruptcy. A. No...only a fool would ban all guns-especially right after going on a tirade about how the government is so screwed up and controlled by the top "1%" of rich people who only care about themselves. Why would I want to disarm myself in a country run by such villains? DUH!B. Republicans talk about social security running out and are constantly criticized (i.e. lied) about it.
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+Radu Popescu Thanks for disproving your own points for ME. Waco was NOT an armed revolution in the likes of say the Revolutionary War. I brought up Waco as evidence of the government POLICE STATE. Not being able to deny that, you try to shift it to "armed resistance against the government is futile." Nice try but, you still dodged my original point which included murdered children (which I noticed you side stepped of course). Nut jobs? So you think the young infants and babies killed in Waco were nuts and then wonder why people would support Trump? Children were nuts? Wow! As far as "futile to fight the government" goes, you are wrong again. The initial attack on the Waco compound saw 4 DEAD government jack booted thugs, and many more wounded. They were stopped by weapons that DID include AR-15 style rifles. it wasn't until they brought in armored vehicles and burned down the main building (months later) that the defenders were eliminated. Now if it took all of that just to take out a handful of lightly armed defenders, it stands to reckon that a vastly larger force of armed citizens could fight the government. If you still don't want to admit it, then how do you explain the Mujahedeen and Viet Cong fighting the two most powerful superpowers in the world and fending them off with just small arms in the beginning? And remember, the Viet Cong had just successfully fought off both the French and Japanese before they fought the American military. Again, think for yourself and learn from true history. Robots will take jobs but, provide others. Robots need programmers and maintenance people. Cars put horse and buggy manufacturers out of business (or transformed them) but, the new auto manufacturers made up for it by employing people in the new industry (which led to even more jobs in the oil and construction industries). You are going down a road that billions of people in countries across the globe have already been down. Learn from their mistakes...in their exuberant youth they had naïve aspirations like you do...the cultural revolution in China...the '60s counter culture in the US...those people have all moved back over to the right to varying degrees after wisdom/age taught them their naiveté. The "Reagan Democrats" used to all be little refer smoking communists back in the '60s but, conservative in the '80s. They learned the difference between THEORY and PRACTICE. China is now more capitalist than the US in some aspects. Don't be naïve. Instead of worrying about the "nut" with an AR-15 that's going to wake up one day and single you out of everyone in the whole world to kill, worry about the government thug who could use the ADA or "patriot act" to lock you up without due process for the very posts you're putting up here.
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+Radu Popescu You say my "assumptions" are based on ignorance but, not only do you (once again) fail to logically show how, you turn right around and finally admit (after much obfuscation, evasiveness and deceit) I was right about examples of smaller forces defeating the great militaries you claimed were unstoppable. THEN you turn around again and begin further obfuscation with even more idealist rhetoric tempered with classic communist zeal. Typical socialist dogmatism which ignores reality. Once again, where you fail to prove a point, you change the subject by inventing a new argument that you figure will buy you time while naively thinking no one will notice. No one said anarchy was a preference. You introduced that as a false choice between two extremes as an alternative to admitting the proven fallacies of your socialist ideology. Yeah, yeah, we've all heard it before...the rich bourgeoisie oppressing the people...a government of the people (i.e. a COMMUNIST government of course)...justice for all...death to the oppressors...blah, blah, blah...then you turn right around and say you'd bet the kind of government I'd form was probably something we've seen before (while you've just advocated a newly packaged version of socialism yourself the whole time). YOU mentioned destroying what's in place-not me. I've already stated I WOULD LIKE TO PRESERVE the constitution and the constitutional republic America is. I've already said that it was the move away from the constitution that has made it easy for rich SOCIALISTS to take and concentrate power among themselves. It's YOUR type that wants to DESTROY the constitution because it stands in the way of your insidious schemes. You want to destroy the 1st amendment by making it so only those of the government and YOUR political leaning have a voice...you want to destroy the 2nd amendment so no one can fight back against your vile schemes. You say US citizens are viewed negatively abroad but, that is more a view of the government. If the view of Americans is so bad, then why do so many still try to come here? Do you think the three Americans who stopped the terrorist attack in France and given awards by them were looked down upon? Those three Americans had to stand up and fight for a country they were not even citizens of because too many people of Europe have become docile sheep (like you)...they'd rather be ruled over like surfs rather than live like free men and women. That's what's happened to you...and Romania is the lowest of the lot. It was the Romanians that broke ranks and lost the battle of Stalingrad...the Russians knew they were the weak link, and so did the Germans...and at the end of the war the Romanian leader switched sides foolishly thinking the Soviets would forget all they had done to invade their country. The communists took over and broke what little spirit the people had even more...now here you are. Like the hopeful but, naïve communist revolutionaries of China, Vietnam and Russia, pawns like yourself will be swept up in a swirl of exuberant rhetoric...used to establish a new control...and just tossed aside like so many chewing gum wrappers after the powers that be no longer need you to establish an even much more totalitarian control than you already rail against. You will only be shunned more than the powers that used you in slitting your own throats by the common people that you betrayed. Right now you call TRUTH "ignorance." When your naïve plans finally backfire on you, you'll claim IGNORANCE (as your excuse) when you are reminded of the TRUTH so many of the rest of us already know and warned you about.
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Troy You brainwashed stupid POS...Think for yourself. First of all Trump didn't inherit $200 Million. That is the MAXIMUM ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE INHERITANCE WAS IGNORAMUS! The inheritance was estimated to be from $40 Million to $200 Million, of which you conveniently choose to believe $200 Million. Next STUPID MORON, TRUMP WASN'T THE ONLY HEIR. DUH! THE INHERITANCE HAD TO BE DIVIDED UP. DUH! Finally, even if Trump does know how to market himself, SO the FK WHAT? That's still business idiot! We always hear about how brilliant Madonna, Michael Jackson, J Lo, Jay Z and others are for marketing themselves so, why is it any different for Trump? Hypocrite. No you brainwashed lying buffoon, Trump does a bunch of real estate developing just like his family did before him and you left wing morons want to discredit Trump because you're so scared he's going to take away your bridge cards. You say that if Trump didn't touch his inheritance it would be worth more today but, that's true for anyone. Once you factor in how much his enterprises are worth he's worth billions now. His cut of the inheritance you over estimate was only about $40 million but, now it's billions. Democrats can't add. Moron, if Republicans don't understand economics, then why are the vast majority of small business owners Republican? Like most left wing democrats you can't even do basic math-forget economics. $4 to $10 billion vs starting out with $40 million. It's not rocket science. Obviously you've just bought into the brainwashing by idiots like the young jerks who've been debunked by almost everybody out there. Dude, instead of foaming at the mouth because you're so terrified Trump is going to take away your psychedelic drugs and bridge card, try to get the facts for a change.
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Obviously you either didn't read the US NEWS and World Report findings, and/or you possess NO reading comprehension skills idiot. I say BOTH in this case...SO let ME educate YOU...oh wait...education means little to nothing when you don't possess the critical thinking ability that necessarily goes along with it.
Their report-and others-have TRUMP at a NET worth of 8.7 Billion numbskull. And here is Business Insider's take:
"So if we break this down into smaller pieces, at the top is stuff Donald himself has, in cash, stocks, and other financial assets. That totals $302 million.
Then we get to the various real-estate holdings that are 100% owned by Trump. That totals about $4 billion; $943 million in assets are attributable to properties he owns only partially.
Then there is the $3.3 billion in real-estate licensing deals and other branded products. That basically implies that Trump values his character at $3.3 billion.
Then there is about $300 million of other stuff and about $15 million from the Miss America pageant.
In all, Trump's net assets total $9.2 billion.
His liabilities stand at about $500 million, and so his net worth goes to $8.7 billion ($9.2 billion minus $500 million)."
Now you have to know the following to understand the above breakdown: The basics of numbers and how to count, basic arithmetic and math, the alphabet, the fundamentals of reading, reading comprehension, the basics of money and finance...and of course critical thinking. Now I can't inculcate you with the basics of what you need to comprehend what a BALANCE sheet is...COMMON SENSE should have told you that a BALANCE sheet contains BOTH credits and debts (or do you not know what those are either?)-hence it's called a BALANCE sheet. D-F'N-UH! Moron. A BALANCE sheet BALANCES both positives and negatives! In short, the 8.7 BILLION IS his NET worth you f''n ignoramus!
As far as inflation goes, that applies to everyone so you are grasping at straws. Do you apply inflation to Obama's numbers when he boasts of fiscal savings and such? I don't think so.
The bottom line is that like most left wing losers you just make things up out of thin air when you don't like the reality in front of your face. You just made up that the 8.7 billion was not Trump's net worth just because your brainwashing mean you didn't like it...just like a child tells stories...or even worse, just like sickos on kilograms worth of psychoactive drug prescriptions, you live in a fantasy world of pink elephants and paranoid fear of the "Republicans coming to take your bridge card."
With your small brain cases, that house much smaller "brains," you primitive savages are naturally only going to vote for those who buy your vote with legalized marijuana, bridge cards, and free health care (so we have to pay for the damage you've done to yourselves through glutinous drug use and too many greasy hamburgers and candy bars). Ever heard of JFK? He said, "Ask not what your country can do for you but, what you can do for your country." You selfish, jealous, lazy, greedy, self absorbed POS will never understand that-or care. Go ahead and vote for Hillary but, don't complain when you find out how naïve you were after things backfire on you. Just like the naïve fools who thought Obama Care was going to be utopian but, discovered it was not the pie in the sky they were promised, you'll be the victim of your own, jealousy, greed, naiveté, gullibility, ignorance, stupidity and weak willed inability to face reality you retarded POS!
RIF UNICORN MORON!
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Radbug 1. You make the mistake of most socialists...you oversimplify many things into false choices between two extremes. Athletic ability doesn't directly equate to money making ability but, in our society it certainly is related to it. Aside from the many sports stars out there, even normal jobs like firefighter, army infantryman, police and more require some basic athletic ability to qualify for those jobs which earn people money. If you want to say athletic ability is not the same as education then that's different but, so many jobs and professions out there require some sort of athletic potential that, to say athletic ability has nothing at all to do with money making ability, is just unrealistic.
2. Not wanting a guy from the "establishment" or "system" is not conspiracy theory. It's just common sense...that is IF you are one of those people that is always crying for CHANGE at least. You can't get change by sticking to the same crap that got you screwed up to begin with. It's basic common sense. Don't hide behind cheap claims of "conspiracy theory" because you don't want to confront reality. If I said Bush lied about the WMDs as an excuse to go into Iraq for the oil, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts you wouldn't exactly be breaking your neck to say it's "conspiracy theory." Same with Iran-Contra or Watergate.
3. Make Trump mayor first? Himmm...Obama only did like half of one Senate run before he ran for president so, I'm sure Trump can go for president without any prior "experience." Trump's billion dollar business surely can account for enough "life credits" to AT LEAST put him at an equivalency to Obama with his half Senate term when he ran. Listen...we've tried "experienced" people who "won't screw up" for over a century now...all it's got us are wars, income tax, a chipped away constitution, drugs and a whole lot of debt. If you haven't figured out that doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is insane-or at least retarded-then I don't know what to tell you. We don't have much to lose even IF Trump were to screw up. That's already happening if you hadn't noticed. You sound like those people who said Jesse Ventura was going to screw up Minnesota...fell for all the scare tactics of the corporate elite...but, of course it was wrong.
4. Reagan is not like Trump because you say Reagan never talked about his pecker on stage? Because of that one reason-if it were even true, which it is not-that's your "proof" Trump is nothing like Reagan? I guess Hillary Clinton is "nothing like" Bill Clinton or Obama because they've never worn a pair of high heels to a debate like she has eh? Your "reasoning" is specious at best...and that's putting it nicely. The fact is that Reagan used to be Democrat and so was Trump...they both changed...they both got called racists...they both (it looks like at least) ended up in brokered elections...they both had prior careers before politics...they both were famous before politics. Maybe not everything is the same about them but, my point is that they said the same crap about Reagan and it mostly turned out to be a bunch of lies...and the few things that were true were highly exaggerated.
5...No...now WE know you're in lock step with the left wing machine. You've been indoctrinated with so much corporate propaganda that you're slitting your own throat. You're so scared of Trump that you're doing the same thing other socialists accuse most people of doing. You won't even consider what he's really saying (not the propaganda they tell you he's saying) just like you accuse people of not knowing what real socialism is. I don't know about you but, we've tried the normal bought and paid for politicians...one go 'round with Trump can't hurt.
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Dave McKagan I'm not a Republican, so are your above statements as irrelevant too as they are hypocritical? The point is that you don't have to be a Democrat to support one, so stop dodging questions like you always do when you get caught in your web of deceit. That's a typical "liberal" proclivity. Again, ARE THE "EXPERTS" WHO CRITICIZED BERNIE SANDERS JUST AS CORRECT AS THE ONES YOU SAID CRITICIZED TRUMP, OR ARE YOU JUST THE TYPICAL LIBERAL HYPOCRITE? :>/
Do you mean Trump is polling higher among "uneducated" whites, or that he is polling among un-brainwashed whites? Also, do you realize how (reverse) racist your statement is?
Finally, what about all the "uneducated whites" that voted for Obama in his landslide victory? Why wasn't that ever an issue? Hmmm. . .
Judging from your naïve rhetoric, the real problem is not "uneducated whites" as opposed to just plain old stupid whites. Obviously no one ever told you that ignorance can be cured,,..BUT STUPID IS FOREVER. You're living proof of it.
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Dave McKagan There is a difference between Bernie Sanders having his policies criticized and having them constantly harped upon like Trump. Plenty of experts have stated how Sanders' plans cannot be paid for and how his numbers don't add up. Just because they choose to unfairly focus on Trump doesn't mean that Sanders policies haven't been called out by plenty of "experts." Stop trying to move the goal posts! You said the "experts" criticized Trump. Now you make excuses when those same experts are shown to have also criticized Sanders. You can't have it both ways. No matter who was criticized more, you turn a blind eye when Sanders gets criticized. Typical liberal hypocrisy. You aren't concerned about what's right, you just want a bunch of free shit others have to work for.
Trump never said he was going to default on the national debt. That's just the latest lie propagated by you lying liberals and brainwashed bums. When will you ever learn to think for yourself? Even if Trump did say he was going to default on the debt, it can't be paid off anyway. The world is already losing confidence in the dollar and slowing trying to move to a new reserve currency. The only reason why it hasn't happened yet is that the Arabs are forced to retain the petro dollar at virtual gun point. Moron. Go read a book.
You talk about "neutral experts" and then you turn right around and use the Washington Post as your source to "prove" Trump's support are all "uneducated." Everyone who's not a naïve fool knows that the Washington post is a primarily partisan, biased and deceitful propaganda machine. Of course they are going to publish articles like that to try and scare naïve fools like you off.
If that bullshit article you posted above from the Washington Post is to be believed, does that mean this one is too?
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/washington-posts-laughable-smear-job-bernies-campaign-and-army-small-donors
Again, all the savvy people know the Washington Post is shit. Get your head out of your ass and think for yourself for a change.
You are a brainwashed idiot who thinks he can prove he's not racist by actually being racist-but, you're too dumb to figure it out. You think blacks can only vote for blacks, Asians can only vote for Asians, women can only vote for women, and whites can only vote for whites. Stop walking on your knuckles and breathing through your mouth moron.
You are trying too hard to prove you aren't a racist. That means you are a closet racist. Never fails. You're fooling no one. Imbecile.
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+Amol
When I give you a source, you call it a liberal source.
The only one you sourced was guns.com.
[I pointed out your source was liberal but, I still proceeded from its
premise so here you are just looking for something to complain about. As far as
Guns.com goes, if you can use a liberal source then why can't I use guns.com?]
The Viet Cong were armed by the Russians, and the
Mujahedeen were armed by us. You don't have a bullet proof argument.
[So what if the VC were armed by the Russians (and they were armed by more
than the Russians BTW)? So what if the Mujahedeen were armed by us (Again, they
were not armed by the US
until later). YOU brought up the liberal argument about rifles vs tanks and
planes and I shot it down if you pardon the expression. Were there ANY Viet
Cong OR Mujahedeen flying around in B-52s or other jet planes in those
conflicts? Was there a mass attack of hundreds of VC tanks in the Vietnam war?
Did the VC have nuclear submarines they got from the Russians? NO, NO, NO.
WHOEVER ARMED THEM, THE VIET CONG AND THE MUJAHEDEEN STILL ONLY HAD SMALL
ARMS-ESPECIALLY IN THE BEGINNING. The VC fought off the JAPANESE, THEN THE
FRENCH, AND THEN THE US...AND
THE MUJAHEDEEN SENT THE SOVIETS PACKING TOO despite fighting tanks and planes. So yes, my arguments are still bullet proof
despite your feeble attempts to stall for time. Typical left wing tactics. Rifles
vs. Jets and tanks have worked in the past.]
Furthermore, I'm not a liberal. [Lol! Surrre. Riiiiight! ;>)]
I do believe in the second amendment, which is why I have
3 guns, 1 for home defense and 2 for range shooting.
[No...you are the typical socialist...you have guns, and yes you believe in
the 2nd amendment but, ONLY SO LONG AS IT APPLIES TO YOU. So many liberals talk
the gun control rhetoric but, secretly many of them own guns themselves...and
some openly as you've demonstrated here. ]
At the same time, there are people who I don't want
owning guns, and that is the reason there should be common sense gun control.
[There you go again with those socialist programmed buzz words,
"Common sense" gun control. No... so called "Common sense"
gun control is anything but that. It's just a cleverly packaged code for GUN
CONTROL. This is just yet one of many reasons you are really a liberal despite
your appeals to the contrary. So called
"common sense" gun control is always explained one way but, whenever implemented
tends to screw over the regular guy who wants a gun while not stopping the bad
guys. ]
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+Amol
But for you, common sense gun control is a liberal plot
to take away guns. And as I stated earlier, that can only happen through
radical change to the second amendment, change I would strongly oppose, or a
supreme court redefinition of the second amendment which is very unlikely.
[Out of the myriad of reasons, your gullibility is the most at fault for
betraying your liberalism. Guns taken away can be accomplished through slick
means. For example, universal background checks may start out halfway decent
but, down the road when no one but the rich and powerful can pass a background
check because every little offense is now considered a "hate" or
"terror" crime, then there is no need for the 2nd Amendment being repealed.
If all gun manufacturers are forced out of business, technically you still have
your 2nd amendment rights but, the REALITY would be you don't. Did you know
that there were democtratic elections in the old SOVIET UNION?
Yes...and they claimed they were "free" and had "self
determining" elections just like the US did. The less naive knew better
however as the catch was that while they did have voting going on there, THERE
WAS ONLY ONE POLITICAL PARTY THAT WAS LEGAL. THE COMMUNIST PARTY. So in
REALITY, they didn't have the choice they claimed...but, they argued they did
in much the same way you argued the 2nd amendment above. Nice try though.]
As far as your bullet proof argument, *you have stated
"They've been scheming for years." no source *"The majority of
the American people have made it clear that they are not looking for more gun
control but, yet it keeps getting rammed down our throats. It's not rocket
science..." polls disprove this, but you called them slanted. *"There
have been scores of legislative attempts to institute gun control on local,
state and federal levels you brainwashed drone." No source again.
*"Even worse...THERE IS NO GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE!!!" The law
states otherwise as 35 states currently have no background checks on person to
person transfers. It is titled a gun show loop hole because many people
that are not licensed dealers sell guns through this mean. They set up
tables, walk around with guns with price tags and have caught the attention of
people like me. It is not the only place it happens, but it is a popular
area with lots of traffic, more so than every day. Your argument is not
bulletproof. It is an unsourced argument that brings no legitimacy to
your claims and again, sounds like a conspiracy which was my original comment.
You can say all of our sources are illegitimate and inaccurate, but you
would be wrong.
[And that's the problem with you left wingers...you try to turn every
discourse into a verbal bibliography contest to see who can source the "mostest."
While usually only supplying sources when pressed for them, you simultaneously expect
everyone else to source every little petty thing...whether they're telling you a
baseball score, telling you the sun's shining, or even if they say they're
about to take a crap on the toilet, you want a "source." If you want
something sourced, then do it yourself. When I hear someone say something I
want to know more about, or I'm just skeptical about, I CHECK IT OUT FOR
MYSELF. You talk about "common
sense" gun control while not even realizing that COMMON SENSE SHOULDN'T
NEED A SOURCE. I don't rely on others
the way you liberals like to rely on everyone else (e.g. government) to do
everything for you. Additionally, you just use the whole source thing to filibuster
your way out of losing arguments. Typical left wing tactics. But, let's address
the rest of your specious claims...The gun control scheming. If every time a
black guy was unemployed or fired from a job, some hypothetical group instantly
came out of the woodwork proposing that black people go back to slavery-and did
this constantly for DECADES-SAVVY people would be able to figure out this
hypothetical group is just scheming to get slavery reinstated. ONLY THE NAIVE AND AWKWARD would demand some
kind of source. That's what you did here. You want a source? Just look back
over the past half century and look at the never ending pattern. If you're not
savvy enough to figure it out, then no amount of sourcing or anything else can
help you. The gun control schemes will never end. As for the so called "gun show loophole," that is just a
title to make the gun shows look sinister in the eyes of the public. Even what
YOU mentioned above-"35 states have no background checks on personal
transfers..."-DOESN'T say anything about GUN SHOWS SPECIFICALLY. You can't
see that "gun show" was added in unnecessarily? Yes,
private dealers have made transactions at gun shows but, it has nothing to do
with guns shows. They just happened to agree on a gun show as the meet place.
It could be anywhere. It's just more propaganda. For example, if I sold a six pack of beer to some
minors at a gun show, does that mean there's now a "gun show
loophole" for kids buying alcohol? If I decided to meet you at a gun show
and sell you a marijuana joint, does that now mean there's a "gun
show" loophole for marijuana sales? If I decide to renew my driver's
license online using my smart phone while I'm at a gun show, does that mean
there is a "gun show" loophole for renewing a driver's license? No. Dude...you
need a critical thinking class. The "gun show loophole" is just what
I said, a fairy tale...a fairy tale designed for the consumption of gullible
and ignorant people...and by the way...your mentioning of the 35 states thing was...you
guessed it...unsourced!!! You say polls disprove my assertion that people are
not looking for more gun control but, again...you guessed it...NO source. On
the contrary however, what I said is true if only judging from the RECORD sales
of guns over the past several years. That alone tells you how popular guns are.
As for the polls you cite, they are widely known to be slanted and rigged...and
there are other polls that contradict the ones you cite but, they are not
allowed to be shown in the left wing media. Yeah, yeah, I know, I didn't
source...So what? If you are so interested in the source, nothing is stopping
you from doing the research on your own...that is, IF you are REALLY as
interested as you make yourself out to be. ]
[So no...again, my arguments were bullet proof especially seeing your
filibustering, erroneous statements and double standards. No...you're a liberal
alright...and I'm to the point of wondering if you even really own any
firearms. ]
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Meriale Merson Lol,...so you have "3BAs and a 153 IQ" but, you still can't figure out the difference between "your" and you're?" That's proof enough that you're probably lying but, most liars are attracted to Hillary. My degree is in engineering. One based upon logic. I don't go around trying to brag about it though because people who are really smart take it for granted. I noticed a long time ago that most of the engineers and other logic based professionals I've encountered outside of academia were non-Democrat. The simple minded naïve free loaders tend to be democrat however. . . but, if you are somehow telling the truth, it just goes to show how bad the education system has become.
How can I buy into all of Trump's "fear tactics" when the biased democrat news media won't show his message? No, it's naïve drones like you who have long since been brainwashed by fear tactics used against Trump but, you lack the critical thinking ability to assess how you're being bamboozled. You fear Trump "deporting everyone who's non white,". . . you fear "Trump starting a nuclear war,". . . you fear "Trump making all women wear bikinis and high heels,". . . you fear "Trump will give himself a tax break and increase it on everyone else,". . . fear, fear, fear. FEAR PROGRAMMED INTO YOUR WEAK WILLED LITTLE "MIND" BY THE BIASED MEDIA YOU'VE YET TO FIGURE OUT IS REALLY JUST A SOCIALIST PROPAGANDA MACHINE. . . Fear programmed into you by the left wing of the Democratic machine. All the while you never connect the dots and realize this is the SAME kind of stuff they used against Ronald Reagan when he ran years ago. Reagan was "racist," or Reagan was going to "blow up the world." Things didn't quite turn out that way did they? Lol. Such a diaphanous con job worked on fools like you back then so why not now? People like you are living proof that there's a sucker born every minute.
Secretly, what you also really fear is having to pay for those college loans on your own instead of having others pay for them, not being awarded affirmative action jobs over someone who's more qualified than you (even though they might be a minority anyway), and having to compete with women who actually look attractive.
Donald's team is successful and the people around him are successful and smart. That's why obsequious sycophants like you work for people like him. You are partially right though. When there are dumb people around him he does take advantage but, it's not his fault they happen to be dumb. Case in point, years ago he used the Clintons to his own advantage. They were dumb, so guess what that makes you for supporting them? Hint, hint: It sure doesn't make you the brightest light on the chandelier. Lol.
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LIBERAL (SOCIALIST) DEMOCRATS:
SUB HUMAN, HYPOCRITE, PARASITIC, FREE LOADING, CRIMINAL LOW LIFE BABY MURDERING, CRIMINAL CODDLING, LYING, STUPID, IGNORANT, DUMB, RETATDED, POLITICALLY CORRECT, OBTUSE, DECEITFUL, MENDACIOUS, PROGRAMMED, UNEDUCATED, LAZY, MORONIC, JUVENILE, NAIVE, SOPHOMORIC, PUERILE, UNINTELLIGENT, TRAITOROUS, SELF ABSORBED, PRO-FAG, PRO CRIMINAL, PRO COMMIE, SHEEPLE, MASSES OF ASSES, SCUMBAG, WEAK WILLED, SELF SERVING,SNTICHING, WEASEL, RAT BASTARD, PIECES OF SHIT!
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Even jail is a society mister psychologist, anthropolgist, jet pilot, ninja, nuclear physicist, artist, stone mason, electrician, chef, biologist, heart surgeon. LMAO! Try again...
No..."assault rifles" in those states are still plentiful just like they were during the Clinton "assault weapon" ban. You lose...loser! LMAO! Try again. BEEP! BEEP! ;)
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Still trying to convince your other 27 personalities you won? "LMAO" frustrating you that badly? Well...here's something for ya...LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO,LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO,LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO,LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO,LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO,LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO,LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO!
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