Comments by "No One" (@joermundgand) on "Nazi Apologist Cries For Herself On Fox News" video.

  1. This will end in tears for everyone who advocates for groupthink and othering, that includes you.
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  2. And if you march alongside communists I know you are also up to no good, two totalitarian groups beating the ever living shit out of each other, I think I'm on neither side.
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  3. David B. Communists infiltrate every movement dedicated to improving peoples lives and turn it into some cult and subsequently start expunging everybody who advocates for practical solutions. In Civil war Spain Communists during the war began to assassinate Liberals, Conservatives, Anarchists and Socialists who sided with the republic, Communists are allways authoritarians who prey on compassion to gain power.
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  4. David B. No, they're Communists, we have them in Europe too, they pretend to be just anti fascist in order to avoid being labelled for what they truly are, violent assholes who wants to install the dictatorship of the proletariat. And then it's just murder camps for anybody who disagrees.
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  5. The5armdamput33. They are self proclaimed Anarcho communists, communism is responsible for millions of deaths, I'm on neither side when both sides are bad. Besides this is all divide and conquer.
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  6. The5armdamput33. Nazis are white-supremacists? not according to the insane ramblings of a corporal and dissappointed arts student, according to that poorly written piece of fiction some white people(who are no more unified than any other so-called group identified by melanin content by individuals who obsess about skin tone) are not considered human. Nazis, Fascists and Communists were responsible for millions of deaths in the 20th century, the reason why is terrifyingly simple, according to all three ideologies everybody who are not them(outgroup) must be put to death. The human beings who they consider to be the targets vary, their methodology however is the same.
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  7. Azmon Rougier. A few days ago Angela Rye on CNN wanted statues of Washington and Jefferson removed...
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  8. Dara Marc Sasmaz. Only at first, they began to purge other political groups once they had begun to gain support among the upper echelons of the Republican officer corps, they started by assassinating Anarchist leaders and soon thereafter the social democratic leadership found themselves under Communist scrutiny and persecution, soon after similar purges of clergy, liberals and conservatives begun in areas controlled by them, the communists would also refuse to supply the Basques(mostly conservatives and deeply religious supporters of the Republic) and the Catalans(mostly Liberals, Social Democrats and Anarchists supporters of the Republic). These are just facts about the civil war in Spain that people gloss over in the US mostly, probably because most US supporters of the Republic were hardcore Communists who were great admirers of Stalin and the Soviet Union. Perhaps reading material about the Spanish Civil War written by non Anglophones would give you some perspective.
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  9. Vanz Scanz. An oppressive state led by Social Democrats at the time, if that's your definition of oppression then what is your definition of freedom?
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  10. ontoverse. Not an American, I'm a Dane, do not embrace the extreme and engage in violence, no thanks and please don't invade if you do like the last time.
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  11. ontoverse. But you are not them, they are long dead and you embrace a binary view of the World absent nuance. Some of my grandparents fled by boat, some were not so lucky. Ever hear of Quisling? or do you chose to forget that inconvenient part of history too?
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  12. ontoverse. As for the use of violence, political violence has no place in a civil society, if violence becomes a form of political discourse then society itself descends into a spiral of constant retaliatory acts. Violence in self defense in war or as an individual is a different matter from being apart of an armed mob intent on doing battle with no legitimate source of authority.
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  13. ontoverse. You brought up your ancestry as source of you being in the right, your ethnos specifically as source of pride vis-a-vis being anti fascist, I merely challenged that simple perception of reality.
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  14. Vanz Scanz. You cannot punish people for their thoughts, read Voltaire.
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  15. Vanz Scanz. Insert coin, press play. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
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  16. Louis Franco. Perhaps it would be better to acknowledge yourself as an American instead of needlessly obsessing about some heritage of a place you and yours left behind to become something else? African Americans have no language of their own, neither does the vast disparate groups of Americans who self label by silly subgroups, in time they will all disappear like a vestigial trait only traced by future health professionals in order to trace the causes of genetic diseases Europeans are another way of labelling and creating groups that are used to divide the World into boxes to promote the narratives that promotes division in the US. As for the Irish they have a language, albeit almost forgotten and in time they will like other people without language be absorbed into the language sphere of a greater whole, consider them a relic at best.
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  17. Louis Franco. Just be an American, stop with the labels and self identifiers.
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  18. Louis Franco. it might surprise you, but cops are universally assholes to you if you are poor.
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  19. Louis Franco. And yet you continue to believe in fairy tales that keep the many divided.
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  20. Louis Franco. ah shit, I don't want to belittle whatever you shit they done to you, but its the same everywhere, keep people in all different boxes and nobody sees who robs them of life and dignity, it really doesn't matter what the skin color or religion you are, money is all that matters, some dude in Bentley with a chauffeur and a nice bespoke suit never gets arrested no matter the superficial characteristics.
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  21. Julia Nadeau. Poverty is generational, they don't care about your complexion(edit, off course they use that too, but it's the lesser reason), they care about if you afford a lawyer and avoid prison and accrue costs to the criminal justice system. And so they look at the state of your car, what clothes your wear and how and where you live, you live in a shitty neighbourhood and you can be sure that they will arrest you for some BS, in this regard there is no larger factor than how much money you got. if you want to change this sad state affairs do something about poverty for the poor, stop trying to divide people into silly brackets and groups based on complexion, that policy is the greatest recruitment tool handed to racist assholes and I'm sure the likes of Richard Spencer gets on his knees everyday and thanks Skyman for affirmative action and wealthy clueless suburbanites with sociology degrees who keep this shit alive. If there is is to be affirmative action base it on income, not some silly 19th century flowchart.
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  22. Jace Solomon. In Berlin the Tempelhof airport still stands as a mute monument to Hitlers genocidal madness, should it be demolished too? Should every statue of Stalin be torn down, in the Russia most were and now they have Putin in charge. We cannot renounce the proverbial devil without visible symbols of the devil for all to see.
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  23. I don't like Nazis and I don't like Commies, both are loathsome authoritarian assholes.
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  24. Hopefully neither commies or nazis will win, if they do we will all lose.
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  25. Ch4rl3magn3. The Golden Way as it is sometimes called in Denmark is an amalgam of mostly Conservative and Socialist ideas, it would take aeons to explain to you, reading about it would be my recommendation. Men du kan jo også bare lade som igenting og fortsætte med at autofellaterer til billeder af Che Guevara.
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  26. Vanz Scanz. Did I mention force? did I advocate for the use of force to maintain or create a hierarchy? Are you engaging in the construction of a cereal stalk based human effigy? Present another coherent non cereal stalk based argument at your earliest convenience.
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  27. Vanz Scanz. And what are human beings, solitary or communal?
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  28. Vanz Scanz. How about joining workers together in sort of democratic body that could negotiate wages and rights on their behalf with their employers, we could call it a union...
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  29. Vanz Scanz. That is not all you advocate for, you also advocate for an end to privately held property by use of state power seized with violent means. I see that you are returning to the cereal stalk human effigies by bringing up a near dead decrepit capitalist for no reason at all.
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  30. The5armdamput33. Nazi is slang for something isn't it, National Socialism, meaning that only the nation as defined by them receive the benefits of Socialism, everybody else though, well they aren't to keen on sharing with others, in fact others have to go to their deaths. As for the Antifa, why don't you go look at their own words and judge for yourself. Here's are some of their ramblings. http://www.infoshop.org/amp/bgp/BlackBlockPapers2.pdf Here's a link to their site. http://idavox.com/ Antifa Northern California. https://nocara.blackblogs.org/
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  31. The5armdamput33. Here are some more insanity from Antifa. Note the words they use, very binary language, anybody who's not with are against us, does this sound familiar to you, it does to me. Most of this stuff could hav been written by Stalin's Commissars. https://itsgoingdown.org/revolutionary-abolitionist-movement-announces-ram-philly/ https://itsgoingdown.org/anarchist-call-solidarity-millions-prisoners-march/
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  32. The5armdamput33. In case you doubts how insane their agit prop is, here are one of their articles. The Revolutionary Abolitionist Movement has sought since its inception to spread nationwide, and create international connections to further the cause of abolitionism and revolutionary anarchism. Today, August 20, 2017, we are proud to announce the formation of the Revolutionary Abolitionist Movement – Philadelphia Branch (RAM Philly). With the growth of each new branch we inch ever closer to the day when we can realize our revolutionary aspirations, live in a world of true freedom, and decisively eradicate the abhorrence of 21st century slavery. The struggle in the US seems like an unrelenting weight being pushed down on revolutionary forces, but that same force has been bearing down on criminalized communities for decades with no reprieve. Mosques are being ruthlessly bombed, state agencies and vigilante groups are deporting Latino people with relentless vigor, LGBTQ people are being battered, and the destruction of black life continues unabated as millions languish in the plantations of the modern day slave system. Immersed in these struggles, against the state and its white supremacist militias, we are developing the capacity to liberate ourselves and others. We fight side by side with those facing state and reactionary violence and with each person we free from captivity the stronger we grow. As demonstrated by our resistance in Charlottesville, we will not cede one inch of ground to racists. As each new collective forms, we begin to create new political realities and continue the march together against white supremacy and for a dignified world. We continue in the legacy of Philadelphia’s rich revolutionary tradition, demonstrated by Mumia Abu Jamal, Russell Maroon Shoatz, and the MOVE organization. We are now establishing a revolutionary political movement that can confront the challenges ahead of us, and together with Philadelphia based comrades, we are taking one step closer. Victory to Those Behind the Barricades! Victory to Those Behind Prison Walls! Victory to Revolutionary Forces! Long live RAM Philly!
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  33. The5armdamput33. They are not Nazis, they are Anarcho Communists who believe in the use of political violence. I'm against all violence, especially political violence.
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  34. The5armdamput33. Because people are very keen to legitimize violence and I fear that is a win for the goddamn Nazis.
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  35. iEatZombies. I don't know why man, perhaps it's because most people have no experience of violence besides, nothing cures you of the notion of violence being fun like experiencing actual violence.
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  36. Paul Zozak. Enzenberger and Barea, great authors, I'm sure an erudite individual such as yourself have heard of them.
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  37. Ana Blossom. Was the leader of a violent revolt against a democratically elected coalition government and like a typical communist she decided to attempt to overthrow democracy and subsequently she was shot as the anti democratic violent rebel she was. "government crushed the revolt and the Spartakusbund by sending in the Freikorps (government-sponsored paramilitary groups consisting mostly of World War I veterans). Freikorps troops captured and executed Luxemburg and Liebknecht. Luxemburg's body was thrown in the Landwehr Canal in Berlin."
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  38. Andrea Bono. But not so linear to those of us who have three brain cells.
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  39. Dara Marc Sasmaz. The US and Great Britain were on neither side, mostly because of their loathing of Communists and Anarchists and because of the obvious geopolitical danger from Germany(at this point in time they still hadn't realized the dangers of National Socialism).
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  40. Vanz Scanz. Which is impossible to do without applying the power of the state, once a committee or executive holds state power the maxim of Francis Bacon comes into effect, Power Corrupts.
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  41. Vanz Scanz. Your disagreement is based on illusion, empirical reality disagrees with you.
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  42. Khashon Haselrig. Now you have. Knowledge at your fingertips, use it to free your ass and your mind will follow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Magnus_Enzensberger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arturo_Barea
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  43. Khashon Haselrig. Der kurze Sommer der Anarchie.
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  44. sk0sH. You do realize that Heather is deliberate calculated sacrifice, sooner or later a Heather Heyer would die and create a crisis to be utilized for political gain, just a little nudge there and here and a Heather Heyer appears as some random douchebag murders a Heather Heyer.
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  45. Isaac Marbel. Non-aggreesion pact, Poland, they might have had a hard time figuring who was the lesser evil. Britain most certainly didn't shirk from fighting Nazi Germany at all, do not include them with the US.
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  46. Tomas. Good advice, I try to be, but I'm only human after all, besides I didn't call a stranger vile.
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  47. ontoverse. Divide et empera, they aim to keep the many divided to ensure the power of the few and fools like you are too dumb to see it.
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  48. ontoverse. So you are German, that explains your cultural penchant towards aggression and extremism.
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  49. ontoverse.Watching Germans marching allways makes us nervous, recent events in Hamburg seems to prove you've still haven't learned why blind faith is a dumb fuckin' idea.
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  50. ontoverse. The Norwegian resistance was representative of the legitimate Norwegian government in exile who was the democratically elected government, the Norwegian king was a conservative anti fascist and thus the resistance were the forces of the legitimate government.
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  51. Julia Nadeau. And sheep. I am VERY likely to be such a victim. Why? For a whole slew of reasons not limited to: 1. Part Roma heritage(1/2 Roma) 2. Social Democrat. 3. Atheist. They murdered way more than 6 million, they murdered 6 million jews, then there are the forgotten dead, Serbs, Romas, Poles, Byelo Russians, Czechs, Slovenians, homosexuals, Communists, Social Democrats, Christians(Hernnhutters, Jehovahs witnesses, Moravian Christians, Jesuits, several orders of Catholic monks etc...) Nazis would according to insane charts consider some people "unwanted", others were to be "culled",lastly some were murdered for being political opponents or belonging to religious communities opposed to violence. Basically their chart for who dies is as insane as the Communist one(who deemed sexual "deviancy" a sign of capitalist decadence, some communists still do). Both ideologies are horrible because they advocate for political violence and the extermination of the "other".
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  52. Vanz Scanz. No I'm not conflating anything, Communists where ever they have seized power have allways purged all dissidents, Cuba, Ethiopia, Angola, Mozambique, South Yemen, Vietnam, North Korea, The Soviet Union and China and even with this list of places there are probably instances and places that escapes me right now at this instance. I have read Marx, he's a good economist and a horrible philosopher.
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  53. Vanz Scanz. You get an F in history today my friend, a big fat F. Off to the library with you.
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  54. Vanz Scanz. Which of these two opinions do you hold? "We're not advocating punishing people for their thoughts, only their actions." "Respecting the opinions of psychopaths who love hurting people, beating women and children."
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  55. Vanz Scanz. The problem with communism is quite simple, it a us vs them school of thought, the outgroup must be evil to justify the ideas of the ingroup. That is why I'm a Social Democrat and not a Communist, in Social Democracy there is no uniform in or outgroup.
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  56. Vanz Scanz. All production is based on capital of some sort, even a Mesopotamian water empire with a barter economy had capital. "We reject that people have to be forced to sell their labor in order to survive." Even in a workers cooperative there will be competition with other cooperatives, let us imagine in your utopia that one cooperative motivated by a charismatic individual out performs other cooperatives, after a while this cooperative would dominate their sphere of production....
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  57. Vanz Scanz. The public in a parliamentary system exercise their rights by participating in the franchise, the elected body then writes laws and vote by majority to pass and the judiciary declares if they conform with the constitution and the executive then enacts them. It's perfectly legal If a group of citizens exercise the right to assembly and another group decides to assembly also in order to voice their disagreement with the first group is also legal. Do you know what is not legal, for either group to deny the right to assembly to the other group.
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  58. Vanz Scanz. "Or shut them down" sets dangerous precedent and furthers the use of violence in the political arena, escalation.... "Inciting violence against people with speech is an aggressive action that should not be tolerated. The govt has no right to arrest them because of Free Speech laws. But the public has the right to counter protest them or shut them down."
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  59. Vanz Scanz. "Inciting violence against people with speech is an aggressive action that should not be tolerated." Provide specific examples. For instance, kill individual X, kill group X, maim group or individual X vs hate group or individual X. The first two are illegal throughout the western hemisphere, the latter are legal and should be legal, no threats were issued, mere intolerance can be disarmed using ridicule and reason.
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  60. Louis Franco. Who the hell calls their neighbour a racial epithet?
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  61. Louis Franco. What about just calling your neighbour your neighbour? You falling into the same trap as the idiots who obsess about this shit 24/7.
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  62. Louis Franco. I'm not bothered, I just think its all made up silly words to keep the children apart in their separate playpens. Riddle me this funny man, what is a Latino?
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  63. Louis Franco. Btw, what is the main difference between a Dane and A German? Language. What is language, thought made manifest, your fictional neighbour and you share the same thought manifested onto the World, you are both Americans, no more, no less.
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  64. Louis Franco. You speak Spanish do you not, are your thoughts different in Spanish?
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  65. Louis Franco. They are not targeting you because of your looks, they are targeting ZIP codes and clothes, its the same in every country on planet Earth.
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  66. Nate Hoffman. That's too bad for your friend, but here's the kicker, that's the lesser factor, the greater factor is income ffs. Once you realize this you can do something about it for everyone and at the same time you deprive the would be cult leaders like Spencer of a lot of potential recruits who are in the main dirt poor whites.
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  67. Louis Franco. They didn't invent native american, BIA(bureau of Indian affairs) did.
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  68. Louis Franco. Both sides label and self label, that's how we are kept from seeing who's fuckin' with us. Without the labels they can't divide us into manageable little stacks to stack the deck.
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  69. While we are at it, why don't we tear down Trajan's victory column, he was enslaving the Dacian's after all, get a grip, this attempt to expunge the bad parts of history is never a good idea.
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  70. Jace Solomon. Commies or Nazis, murderous fools vs murderous fools.
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  71. Jace Solomon. You remove the monuments, you change the history books and soon nobody will even remember why the Confederacy was a bunch of slave owners fighting for the right own human beings like cattle, what will happen when nobody remembers their evil?
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  72. Paul Zozak. No my friend, I'm a friend of neither side in this argument, you however have chosen a side just like them, a side that embraces violence.
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  73. jim Morrison. Now who's deluding who, war is state murder on a grand scale.
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  74. NyYankees1985. That's his other, his outgroup, in his mind it is now legitimate to murder them now that he has dehumanised them.
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  75. Harkness78. But do it legally, no angry mobs or sneaking in by night with a blowtorch.
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  76. Jace Solomon. There's only one party... Divide et Empera, quid pro quo, Cicero saw through this charade more than 2000 years ago.
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  77. Paul Zozak. La Violencia....
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  78. Andrea Bono. Except that isn't quite true is it, just go through the comments to this video and it will be obvious that communism is still alive and decidedly unwell in the head.
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  79. Vanz Scanz. Surplus value is necessary in a hierarchy, a sensible redistribution to maintain societal cohesion is a boon to the overall prosperity of the populace.
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  80. Vanz Scanz. Please don't believe that you are welcome, people in the real World need practical solutions to practical problems.
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  81. Keith Durant. Threats waxes and wanes, besides the lack of people killed by Communists is more a matter of the ineptitude of communists to do actual permanent and final harm to other human beings.
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  82. Vanz Scanz. Usually people stop listening because of the revolutionary gibberish which threatens the stability of the society they live in.
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  83. Keith Durant. "The fact that workers who produce a product request an fair share of the profit from their labor is not communism...it is the only way that people are not slaves." It's the methodology how to achieve a higher standard of living for largest amount of people possible I disagree with, at what point did I argue against unions?
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  84. Keith Durant. Waxes and wanes, incompetent at this point in time... How very droll to lump all who oppose political violence in with the group that merely is a mirror image of the other.
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  85. Keith Durant. I advocate that citizens shouldn't pay the bill for compulsive gamblers and that the executive should enforce anti trust to a draconian degree. Banking however is a necessity as long as money is based on the faith in money having any value.
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  86. Keith Durant. Gold has no intrinsic value, Marxism in it's most orthodox form buys into this lie that capital is real in itself, it ignores that capital and its value is a faith based system. In a barter economy things have value, but it is horribly impractical and so we converted cows(pengus) to precious metals... But at this point the amount of capital far supersedes the value of every commodity on earth, only by maintaining the illusion can money have any value, without the illusion even Bill Gates would be a beggar.
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  87. Keith Durant. Could we agree not engage in childish semantics, you are perfectly aware that gold is valued beyond its value as a practical resource for manufacturing superior electronics or solar panels for space craft. "Miguel Lewis wrote a poem: Capitalism is religion. Banks are churches. Bankers are priests. Wealth is heaven. Poverty is hell. Rich people are saints. Poor people are sinners. Commodities are blessings. Money is GOD." It is a beautiful poem. but it is flawed, money cannot be equated with GOD, God is limitless, money creates limits.
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  88. Keith Durant. "And if destroying fantasy to allow the rest of us to live in reality means Bill Gates can wipe windshields for a living so be it." Obviously the collapse of the entire system would cause mass panic, I don't know what you think would happen if the great unthinking numbed and dumbed down sea of humanity learns that all they have labored and slaved away for was a lie, the words rivers of blood comes to mind.
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  89. Innocent Villain. Labor is a commodity.
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  90. Innocent Villain. What is a slave?
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  91. Innocent Villain. If the amount money exceeds as it does at this point in time the value of all commodities by a factor of 24 and the belief in money falters what would the outcome be?
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  92. Innocent Villain. Exactly, that is the illusion itself that must be maintained, without it pandemonium.
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  93. Innocent Villain. "We both know what a slave is no matter how either of us would like to word it in a given instance. I am not interested in irrelevant semantical tangents." To provide context and prevent needless obfuscation.
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  94. Innocent Villain. The excess supply has to be maintained to enable belief, buy your entry to earthly paradise and become a holder of tickets to the pearly gate express.
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  95. Innocent Villain. In what way did you refute this so-called fallacy, illuminate me without resorting to fictional examples. We both understand how supply and demand functions, even without currency the axiom is in that regard true.
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  96. Michael P. I'm trying to make people see nuance, everybody is very keen on being very binary, somebody has to challenge this tendency, you are for instance doing it right now, keep doing it.
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  97. Michael P. I see a man cherry picking, here's the full sentence. "And if you march alongside communists I know you are also up to no good, two totalitarian groups beating the ever living shit out of each other, I think I'm on neither side." This is the part you picked out of the whole. "well if you march alongside communists, you're up to no good" So if we are to discuss anything let us discuss the full sentence. For historical context we could include the German-Soviet non aggression pact and the attack on Finland, the Baltic states and Poland, especially the attack of Poland in which two autocratic murderous regimes decided to carve Poland up between them, one regime was a National Socialist one, the other was a Communist regime. Are we to discuss this latest instance of political violence in a vacuum or is it allowed to see it as a part of greater whole?
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  98. Michael P. Amazing how people think quantity is a quality when applied to the amount of words jammed into a sentence consisting of repetitive hot air, for hot air exercise example, see below. "Sorry, my friend, but when someone posts a comment saying that his grandfather got paid by our government to fight nazis and that he did it well because it was the right thing to do, and you respond by saying that people who march along side of communists are up to no good, that has jack shit to do with you trying to make people see nuance....(Which applies to both groups) And if your idea of "trying to make people see nuance" starts off with a blanket statement about a political label not being discussed prior, and without you bothering to explain what the label you're injecting means, or how it relates to the comment you're replying to, and then ends up with you trying to talk about supply-and-demand in vague soundbites, and you never tied any of what you said into a nuanced point related to the substance of the original comment you were first posting a reply to, then I'm sorry but you really suck at "making people see nuance"...(I appear to succeeded in making you think, that's a success) Perhaps you should focus on one topic at a time...You breezed past a bunch of broad complicated issues, without applying much nuance to any of them...(most issues are quite simple, people are just afraid of simplicity, if things are simple then the solutions are simple and that would immediately mean that a lot of the issues people have based entire careers upon would vanish, think of the myriad of unemployed sociologists and pundits this would cause). Presenting as many articulate thesis statements as you can about as many different topics and issues that you can get away with, is not the same thing as being nuanced or trying to make people see nuance...Nuance isn't measured by how many topics you can present theses on....Its about how much substance and detail you can go in to about a specific thesis or issue....Being a contrarian doesn't make you nuanced either..(This wordy response could be shortened to stop asking questions and give me answers I agree with). And your results of your attempt to make people see any nuance here, have pretty much failed so far...So will you try to argue about why you think they have, or is it more nuanced to figure out if anybody you are trying to get through to here has come to look at anything differently because of your attempts to make people see nuance?"(There is a difference between nuance and consensus, you assume first is the latter)
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  99. MaoTseFunkadelic. And what if I do not agree with Marx at all, what if my interpretation of what money is doesn't stem from the thoughts of a long dead German, but from the very real questions that you might hear from a child about what is real and what isn't. "Neither is saying capital is real or isn't, both say they are social relations. For Marx, it is social relations of production. For the neo-classical, it is basically religion. To say 'Gold has no intrinsic value' is a complete red herring. It has use-value (as input, electricity conductor etc), and it has an exchange value (the labour time necessary for its production)." Here my copy pasta from an earlier. "Could we agree not engage in childish semantics, you are perfectly aware that gold is valued beyond its value as a practical resource for manufacturing superior electronics or solar panels for space craft." Followed by this."Obviously the collapse of the entire system would cause mass panic, I don't know what you think would happen if the great unthinking numbed and dumbed down sea of humanity learns that all they have labored and slaved away for was a lie, the words rivers of blood comes to mind." Which means Marx bought into illusion, because he desperately needed to believe it as to underpin his Utopian vision.
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  100. MaoTseFunkadelic. Yadada, my tone offends you and so you skip right past and do a Heidegger. My opponent must ignorant because he's crass and uncouth. "You base your ideas on the long-dead economists, you just don't know intellectual legacy of them (otherwise you would realize your snide 'dead German' remark is foolish)." What is the sentence below but an article of faith, GOD is real because men have faith. "Neither is saying capital is real or isn't, both say they are social relations. For Marx, it is social relations of production." Now who's engaging in what now?, as for reality in a World that Marx couldn't imagine, a World wherein capital is created by the push of button to create constant devaluation, we are not filing of the edges of the doubloon anymore, now we are engaging in making every commodity a tad lighter by every push downwards. "Far from Marx buying into the illusion, your have fetishised the illusions of capitalism's appearance for reality, leading you to simple solipsism. A natural position for a narcissist."
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  101. MaoTseFunkadelic. I know humanity because I'm human, so do you, infinite supply meets finite demand. That's what we have now. "And hence there is no reason why one should make inferences to wider economy, or your rather condescending attitudes towards the 'sea of humanity', to say nothing of the inference of incredible narcissism and delusion that allows you to elevate yourself above them."
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  102. MaoTseFunkadelic. Off course social relations are real, so is faith and like faith they are subject to change, to quote a line from a movie"This is not Nam Smokey, there are rules". Where in the holy hell did I reject supply and demand exactly since you liken me to those dudes, I did no such thing. But it makes a difference in the eyes of the believers does it not. Without belief the fluctuation would have real consequences. I'm not stating that value doesn't exist, I'm stating unequivocally that value and capital have become completely disconnected.
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  103. MaoTseFunkadelic. Discussing belief with a believer makes very little sense, yet I persist.
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  104. MaoTseFunkadelic. It matters not whether God is real, it matters that the believers believe he is real. The same goes for social relations concerning perceived value, you believe that capital has value and whomever you are engaging believes the same, then capital has value if enough believers exist who engage in this social relation. Ergo it is no different from faith. In the example you so generously created concerning the value of a chair you provided an example of the disconnect between value and capital, it's your own words after all, do you disagree with your own words? "And once again, you lapse into incoherence. There can be no devaluation without value. One cannot exist without the other. If it is not real, than it cannot be degraded. And furthermore, if it is degraded in aggregate, it makes no difference. If a piece of wood is worth $1 or $1000 makes little difference. It just means that other commodities will move in the same proportion. The chair will move from $5 to $5000." You shouldn't proclaim a position based on belief anyway. A believer cries, you don't understand the nature of faith to the faithless.
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  105. MaoTseFunkadelic. Well it's your church and your priest, you even have crusaders to punish the faithless, I'm sure you are familiar with them, they've got murder robots and dudes wearing tacky medals.
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  106. MaoTseFunkadelic. I Say "God is not real, but the cathedral does not exist unless we worship him". Value is not a belief system, but the belief in capital having value is. The nominal price or the labor remains irrelevant to the exchange of capital, it does not matter what the price of the chair is at all, what matters is the belief that an exchange of capital between two believers determine the value in capital for the chair. Exactly.
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  107. MaoTseFunkadelic. Get it through your skull, I do not claim that only Marxists subscribe to delusion, I claim everybody does. There is no mystification, there is only the assurances that it can be exchanged for something of value. Without that it holds no value in itself. The belief that the Assyrian water scrip has value in itself is the delusion, in order to reinforce the belief you have legions of clergymen and heavily armed goons making absolute sure that a piece of clay with cunei form bearing the stamp of Assurnipal has value, it only has value as long as the the individuals engaging in the exchange have belief that the scrip can be exchange for something of value.
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  108. MaoTseFunkadelic. Capital is a necessary delusion, but it is a delusion. Your entire ideology is based on this delusion and so just like any other ideologue you cannot denounce the delusion.
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  109. MaoTseFunkadelic. I'm saying the same thing I said from the beginning ffs, Money form is completely irrelevant also, in the name of all things holy and unholy what part of necessary delusion does not compute in your Marxist hard wired reptilian brain.
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  110. Innocent Villain. Market state vs Nation state, choose carefully.
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