Comments by "No One" (@joermundgand) on "LA Votes To Make Columbus Day "Indigenous People's Day"!" video.

  1. A Plate of Hot Dogs. Yes he was quite horrible, can you name another famous child rapist and conqueror from history? I can.
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  2. If you don't agree you a fascist and you if don't agree you're a commie seems to be the manner in which all attempts at dialogue is interpreted these days. How can you be so fuckin' incredibly singularly dumb.
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  3. Just be clear I think it's okay to revile Columbus for his horrible actions, but remember this, Muhammad did those things too, *gasp*, better go to the nearest mosque and tell the believers that Eid is wrong(celebrating the genocidal campaigns against Jews and Christians), while you're at it pop down to your local church and tell them about the slaughter of the Saxons, the butchering of the jews at the hands of Catholics, you could also visit your local chapter of Antifa and tell them about the horrors of Magadan and the gulags, while you are at it why not quickly inform your liberal member of congress about the Marrakech congress in which two liberal countries decided to carve up Africa between them and subsequently murder 50 million human beings, you should call your conservative member of congress and demand they condemn the same thing(it was bipartisan). But you won't.
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  4. "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." 1984.
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  5. Khashon Haselrig. Another religious holiday allready exists that celebrates violent conquest, it lasts a month and millions of Americans celebrate it, go tell them they can't celebrate it, I fuckin' dare you.
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  6. ExtraRareTrumpSteak. Off course not, but why this name, another name could have been chosen, how about forgiveness day, remembrance day, it could have been a day of reconciliation, now it is just blame whitey day, well done retards, you just made Trumps reelection more likely.
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  7. Julia Winkler. Read more books.
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  8. Julia Winkler. Zakat (2.5% tax of believers) is mostly only given to believers. Beneath are the believers eligible for Zakat, Dhimmis are not included, they pay Jizya. "Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to Truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer: (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom." Those living without means of livelihood (Al-Fuqarā'), the poor(only Believers) Those who cannot meet their basic needs (Al-Masākīn), the needy(only Believers) To zakat collectors (Al-Āmilīyn 'Alihā)(only Believers) To persuade those sympathetic to or expected to convert to Islam (Al-Mu'allafatu Qulūbuhum)(only allies of Believers), recent converts to Islam, and potential allies in the cause of Islam(only allies of only Believers) To free from slavery or servitude (Fir-Riqāb), slaves of Muslims who have or intend to free from their master by means of a kitabah contract(only Believers). Those who have incurred overwhelming debts while attempting to satisfy their basic needs (Al-Ghārimīn)(only Believers), debtors who in pursuit of a worthy goal incurred a debt(only Believers) Those fighting for a religious cause or a cause of God (Fī Sabīlillāh)(only Believers), or for Jihad in the way of Allah by means of pen, word, or sword, or for Islamic warriors who fight against the unbelievers but are not salaried soldiers.(only Believers) Wayfarers, stranded travellers (Ibnu Al-Sabīl), travellers who are traveling with a worthy goal but cannot reach their destination without financial assistance(only Believers) Dhimmis(non believers from the Abrahamic faiths) pay Jizya. Fight those who believe not in God and in the Last Day, and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, and who follow not the Religion of Truth among those who were given the Book, till they pay the jizyah with a willing hand, being humbled Fight those of the People of the Book who do not [truly] believe in God and the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, who do not behave according to the rule of justice, until they pay the tax and submit to it. (only converts are allowed to avoid the Jizya. converts pay Zakat) Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day(non Abrahamic faiths and Atheists) Do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden(non believers must follow Sharia or be enslaved or die) Who do not embrace the true faith // Who do not behave according to the rule of justice (non muslims who belong to non Abrahamic faiths or are atheists must follow Sharia or be enslaved or die) Until they pay jizya with their own hands (pay Jiyza which is whatever the ruler/state decides it is) While they are subdued(no equal right to muslims)
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  9. Julia Winkler. I allready gave a better more inclusive alternative than Indigenous People's Day. Why don't you read about Hasanoanda a.k.a Ely Samuel Parker instead.
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  10. Julia Winkler. Shortly after Grant took office as president in March 1869, he appointed Parker as Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Parker served in this office from 1869 to 1871. He was the first Native American to hold the office. Parker became the chief architect of President Grant's Peace Policy in relation to the Native Americans in the West. Beginning in 1887, the federal government attempted to “Americanize” Native Americans, largely through the education of Native youth. By 1900 thousands of Native Americans were studying at almost 150 boarding schools around the United States. The U.S. Training and Industrial School founded in 1879 at Carlisle Barracks, Pennsylvania, was the model for most of these schools. Boarding schools like Carlisle provided vocational and manual training and sought to systematically strip away tribal culture. They insisted that students drop their Indian names, forbade the speaking of native languages, and cut off their long hair. Not surprisingly, such schools often met fierce resistance from Native American parents and youth. But the schools also fostered a sense of shared Indian identity that transcended tribal boundaries. The following excerpt (from a paper read by Carlisle founder Capt. Richard H. Pratt at an 1892 convention) spotlights Pratt’s pragmatic and frequently brutal methods for “civilizing” the “savages,” including his analogies to the education and “civilizing” of African Americans. By then he was no longer in charge.
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  11. Julia Winkler. Read more books.
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  12. David Gonçalves. if somebody wants to compare somebody from the past with Hitler there is an excellent candidate available who makes Columbus look like naughty a school boy. Genghis Khan who had 10% of the Worlds population killed, his armies annihilated whole nations of people, where are the Khwarezm, the Kara Khitai, the Khazars and numerous others today. Here is some quotes of Genghis Khan regarding the destiny of the Mongols as a people. "People conquered on different sides of the lake should be ruled on different sides of the lake." Apartheid caste system, Genghis thought that was a good idea. "Be of one mind and one faith, that you may conquer your enemies and lead long and happy lives." Telling the Mongols to unite and conquer others because war and violence would make them happy. "The pleasure and joy of man lies in treading down the rebel and conquering the enemy, in tearing him up by the root, in taking from him all that he has." Kill any who rebel and destroy their home and murder their family. "All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposes with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated." Prisoners in war wasn't his thing either, kill everyone who resisted, that means everyone, men, women and children. There a thousand of his quotes from the Secret History of the Mongols which is a book written to praise him by his contemporaries, it's basically his Mein Kampf.
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  13. ExtraRareTrumpSteak. No he wasn't, he was the standard for his day. But Visgoths like you don't read books, you have emojis and hashtags and if you read it is no more than a 120 characters.
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  14. Genovese, he was from Genova, lots of mercs back then were from Genova, your schools are an abject failure.
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  15. Julia Winkler. Bradbury, Brecht.
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  16. "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." 1984.
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  17. Novusod. So he was like Muhammad.
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  18. Dan Underwood. You are incredibly fuckin' dumb, an utter waste of carbon and protein. It's isn't a matter of moral equivalence, it is the complete lack of any attempt at reconciliation that the name implies and the wilful attempt to simply garner a few votes doing this by creating more division and hate.
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  19. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Peoples, plural, many different peoples, many who still exists or who intermixed with the conquerors. Or are you just ignorant of that fact, let's take Jimmy's wife as an example, Stephanie Zamorano, ancestry includes in all likelihood, South European, Meso American, West African. Question: should Stephanie revile her European heritage and embrace her Meso American heritage, or should she embrace both? Choices, choices.
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  20. AmericanNohbuddy ™. And what happens when you apply inclusion and exclusion in a celebration, let me access history files for reference, I think you'll see very few "white " people show up to the Indigenous people day and that would then defeat the purpose of the exercise in its entirety, no reconciliation, just another exclusion with subsequent division and hatred, basically a reversed Columbus day, well done, you've made future coexistence less likely.
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  21. AmericanNohbuddy ™. It creates a new group to be excluded. That's how tribalism works.
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  22. Horrible merc set sail for gold and titles, murders 100,000 human beings, but remember this also. "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." 1984.
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  23. Stu Bur. Eid celebrating the battle of trench and the genocidal campaigns of a certain warlord, now go down and tell people who celebrate Eid that they can't do that, I fuckin' dare you to do that.
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  24. KC. "How white of you. Tell that to the native people's who no longer exist." Oh you little poor fool, that kind of logic can be applied all over the World where ever conquest and genocide took place...
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  25. A reasonable comment presenting a reasonable solution, you know you'll be called a Nazi soon.
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  26. 4 Fake. The Malian trade fleet expedition, no archaeological evidence exists in the Americas, in all likelihood it would have encountered from what the survivor describes a Cape Verdean Hurricane(a powerful river in the sea). Which is pretty likely considering the location of the Malian Empire.
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  27. Julia Winkler. My Grandmother was Roma, but I don't hate Germans. Their belt buckles was inscribed with Gott mit Uns.
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  28. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Beneath the Pyramid of the Sun there is a curious set of rooms, these rooms have gullets, large stone tables with gullets and there was once large rafters across above the tables, archaeologists have found in cracks fragments of bone and blood from human beings, further away from the Pyramids they have found large pits full of cracked human bones with the bone marrow removed. The Pyramid of the Sun were a place which the captives taken in the garland wars were taken, the garlands were a poetic expression for human heads, a few were sacrificed atop the pyramids and kicked down the steps, most prisoners however were taken beneath the pyramid and butchered, later each family who had send a volunteer to fight in the Aztec army came to get their portion of meat, human meat. And before you all go crazy and call me a liar remember this, how do you think the Aztecs of Tenochtitlan got their animal protein, they had no livestock at all, no pigs, cows, goats, sheep, chickens, horses etc.. PS: They didn't even have guinea pigs or llamas like the Incas did.
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  29. David Gonçalves. Gun beats stone tipped spear and obsidian clubs. Technology is a bitch.
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  30. robbie g. The Iroquois and the Choctaw should provide you with examples of Indians conquering other Indians. Technology is a bitch. PS: Did you know that the diseases introduced by Europeans killed 90% of the native population, imagine how that would impact any society, read about the abandoned cities of the Natchez in the lower Mississippi, read and learn, not a single European arrived there, the diseases killed that entire civilisation.
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  31. Terril Davis. No he didn't, Dominicans today have a sizable percentage of Taino DNA. He did conquer them, murdered a great many, but not every single one, the Spanish brought very few women and so they did what humans everywhere did in war at the time(including the native population of the Americas), they took the women of the defeated foe. From Wikipedia. The genetic makeup of the Dominican Republic's population is estimated to be 52.15% European, 39.57% Black African, and 8.28% Native American on average according to recent genealogical DNA testing.[8] European and native components are highest in the north-central region (Cibao), while the African input is higher in the southeastern plain, and generally in coastal areas.
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  32. Robert Richardson. De Las Casas was a visionary(way ahead of his time) and at the time he was considered to be insane for not understanding what Vae Victis meant, the vast majority of his contemporaries considered the conquest of the Americas just and a sign of God favoring Spain.
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  33. The5armdamput33. Columbus was nowhere near as bad as Hitler, Hitler had access to all the ideas of the enlightenment and chose to reject them. Columbus was an Italian Mercenary who had a plan to get rich or die trying and he had no access to the treasure trove of ideas that the enlightenment affords us today, at the time of Columbus there was no such thing as the Geneva convention, the rights of man, human rights etc... All there was the idea that to the victor goes the spoils of war.
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  34. Robert Richardson. Peaceful!!! the Taino and the Caribs fought wars and performed human sacrifice, the Caribs were cannibals. Peaceful my ass. Comparing Columbus to Hitler is idiotic, Hitler had access to ideas and mores that were unknown to Columbus and Hitler said fuck it let's just ignore the entirety of developed morality and ethical code that came to be from the renaissance and onward.
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  35. Robert Richardson. And yes Columbus was typical for his time, think of him as no different than any merc at the time, a plan to get rich at great risk at the expense of others.
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  36. Mad Beach. Exactly, the point of this entire policy of erasing history is simple. It is done to make good obedient peons, if you don't believe me do a search and write, Podesta emails compliant and unaware.
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  37. Mad Beach. You forgot Dubois.
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  38. Robert Richardson. Do a search, the Comanche and their campaigns against rival tribes, you wanted genocides performed by natives, here you go.
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  39. CONTROL ALT DELETE. Whatever you say dude, I just like reading, I guess that ain't your thing. I guess books are hard to come by on the road.
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  40. Robert Richardson. You do know that the Caribs still exists and until the mid 20th century some were still cannibals. You do know that right. "The Taino and the Caribs fought with one another, yes, and were longstanding rivals." And know you acknowledge that they were in fact not peaceful, well done. I know is tempting to think of the benighted conquered people as noble savages, that's standard colonialist thought, but stop doing that, soon you'll be off spreading "civilisation" in the Middle East.
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  41. Robert Richardson. The Iroquois were in terms of morality in war on par with Vikings, which is admittedly cruel as fuck, but still not genocidal, if you want the really genocidal natives North of the Rio Grande then the Comanche are the top dog.
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  42. Robert Richardson. Pre columbian population of Santo Domingo. Early population estimates of Hispaniola, probably the most populous island inhabited by Taínos, range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 people. The maximum estimates for Jamaica and Puerto Rico are 600,000 people.[49] The Spanish priest Bartolomé de las Casas (who had lived in Santo Domingo) wrote in his 1561 multi-volume History of the Indies:[50] There were 60,000 people living on this island [when I arrived in 1508], including the Indians; so that from 1494 to 1508, over three million people had perished from war, slavery and the mines. Who in future generations will believe this? Researchers today doubt Las Casas's figures for the pre-contact levels of the Taíno population, considering them an exaggeration. For example, Anderson Córdova estimates a maximum of 500,000 people inhabiting the island.[51] The Taíno population estimates vary a great deal, from a few hundred thousand up to 8,000,000.[52] They had no resistance to Old World diseases, notably smallpox.[53] The encomienda system brought many Taíno to work in the fields and mines in exchange for Spanish protection,[54] education, and a seasonal salary.[55] Under the pretense of searching for gold and other materials,[56] many Spaniards took advantage of the regions now under control of the anaborios and Spanish encomenderos to exploit the native population by stealing their land and wealth. It would take some time before the Taíno revolted against their oppressors — both Indian and Spanish alike — and many military campaigns before Emperor Charles V eradicated the encomienda system as a form of slavery.[57][58] In thirty years, between 80% and 90% of the Taíno population died.[59] Because of the increased number of people (Spanish) on the island, there was a higher demand for food. Taíno cultivation was converted to Spanish methods. In hopes of frustrating the Spanish, some Taínos refused to plant or harvest their crops. The supply of food became so low in 1495 and 1496 that some 50,000 died from the severity of the famine.[60] Historians have determined that the massive decline was due more to infectious disease outbreaks than any warfare or direct attacks.[61][62] By 1507 their numbers had shrunk to 60,000. Scholars believe that epidemic disease (smallpox, influenza, measles, and typhus) was the overwhelming cause of the population decline of the indigenous people.[63][64][65]
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  43. Robert Richardson. Read this book. Guns, Germs, and Steel. Then read everything this dude wrote: Eric Hobsbawm.
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  44. The5armdamput33. The People of Mongolia, Uzbekistan etc... He's considered a hero in Central Asia.
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  45. Robert Richardson. 80% of the natives died from disease on Santo Domingo, that's using the low estimate. Average 550000 inhabitants, 60000 left when De Las Casas arrived. Was Columbus a horrible human being, yeah, were the natives innocents, no. Will renaming the day change anything, no, most US citizens are uneducated idiots anyways, so it won't make any difference. Edit: Not idiots, ignorant is a more apt description. So get rid of Columbus day, soon they'll delete Columbus from the history books, the Taino forgotten. The end.
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  46. The5armdamput33. Off course you don't, he wasn't European, that's not the point numbskull. Read some fuckin' books.
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  47. Robert Richardson. "I am not promoting the "Noble Savage" mythos. I am saying that there is no justification, despite the propaganda from the Spaniards who sent back false reports to try to justify their actions, for what happened, and that we should not be celebrating this guy as a hero, let alone giving him a holiday in his name." You just did when you claimed they were peaceful, that they didn't engage in cannibalism, that it was just the Spanish being nasty and btw the Taino did attack the Spanish after Columbus left Santo Domingo to explore the Caribbean, they stormed the garrison. Personally I think they had every right to repel a cruel invader, but you did portray them as Noble Savages. That is how the pretext for invading Libya and Syria was manufactured.
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  48. Robert Richardson. "You're being ridiculous, re: Libya and Syria. I pointed out that they Columbus landed on an island full of peaceful people, which they were by any rational definition of the term. Peaceful people does not mean "pacifist" or "never ever ever uses violence"! It simply means they live in peace, and are not a warlike, violence-centered culture (you could argue that the Carib were the latter). This isn't rocket science." Yes, yes, yes, obviously angry because you now begin to understand the rationale for colonialism was identical to bomb country X with humanitarian bombs. Still portraying them as noble peaceful savages. Next you'll want to enlighten the people of Somalia with some Humanitarian bombs. "These people have little knowledge of fighting [...] with fifty men one could keep the whole population in subjection and make them do whatever one wanted." Or he noted their backward technological state. "Columbus saw their peacefulness as "easy to exploit", and reported it as such. And exploit he did, brutally... so brutally that he was eventually arrested (in part) for it. Later voyages saw him and his colleagues inventing the myth of the cannibal tribes (all the rest that the Spanish discovered, amazingly!) in order to justify what they did to them, since as I said, the Queen would only agree to the violent subjugation of violent cannibals, not regular indigenous people. I linked you to the book that talks about it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanomami Related society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_Caribs Caribs today. "Every report I have ever read about the Taino shows them fighting only in self-defense, either against the Carib or the Spanish. At most, they were "erratic retaliators", as is the case with most tribal peoples around the world. There is no evidence I have seen anywhere that suggests any of the Arawak peoples actually engaged in cannibalism. I am, however, aware that they likely wiped out the first colony Columbus left behind on his original voyage. Don't blame them for that." Lack of writing(no efficient communication), steel(poor weaponry) and horses(less efficient communication, no counter to shock tactics) makes for a poor match off. Nor do I blame anybody for fighting an invader, I'm just a realist when it comes to why they lost. "I am going on about this because it drives me batty to have you try to imply that I'm playing the Noble Savage rhetorical game. What I'm trying to do is show that the Arawak simply did nothing that in any way brought what happened to them upon themselves; I am treating them as I would any other group of people to which this might have happened." Apply the same logic to Arabs vs East Africans. "No scholar seriously disputes that Columbus initiated the trans-Atlantic slave trade as soon as he arrived, that he cut hands off of human beings in order to coerce the others to bring him the gold after which he lusted, and that he was such a brutal tyrant that even some of his own people rebelled against him for it... to the point he was arrested!" He was arrested by members of the noble caste(Hidalgos) who resented being commanded by a commoner, then they proceeded to chop off hands and murder just like he did. "Why in the world would we celebrate this guy? Why in the world should we get into big arguments over whether the natives somehow deserved or earned what he did to them, rather than simply saying "Cool. We stopped naming a holiday after a murdering, tyrannical fuckwad and named it instead in honor of the indigenous peoples of the continent. Good move."" No need to celebrate him, no need to celebrate the natives either, it's all BS for cheap political points.
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  49. Robert Richardson. Arawaks today: The Spaniards who arrived in the Bahamas, Cuba, and Hispaniola (today Haiti and the Dominican Republic) in 1492, and later in Puerto Rico, did not bring women on their first expeditions. The explorers mated with the Taíno women, who bore mestizo children as a result. While the Taíno have been extinct as a distinct population since the 16th century, many people in the Caribbean have Taíno ancestry. A 2003 mitochondrial DNA study under the Taíno genome project determined that 62% of people in Puerto Rico have direct-line maternal ancestry to Taíno/Arawakan ancestors. Standard modus operandi in war at the time, regardless of the society being indigenous or otherwise.
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  50. Robert Richardson. "Historian William Riviere[16] has described the cannibalism as related to war rituals. Columbus and his people did not understand what they were seeing, and they were shocked at this cannibalism. In 1503, Queen Isabella ruled that only people who were better off under slavery (a definition which explicitly included cannibals) could legally be taken as slaves. This provided Spaniards an incentive and legalistic pretext for identifying various Amerindian groups as cannibals to enslave them and take their lands away." Blahblahblah, just angry because they were people capable of evil just like everybody else and then they met a horrible conqueror and you feel bad about the whole thing so you whitewash everything they did and point the finger at Columbus and say"bad Columbus, good noble savage".
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  51. Stu Bur. No he wasn't, he was viewed as a completely run of the mill mercenary doing what mercenaries do, he was Genovese and in Genova being a mercenary doing horrible shit was a legit trade. And if you think Columbus was extraordinarily bad then you probably should not read about the 30 year war, The Mughals, Ivan the Terrible, the Manchus, the Ottomans, Vlad the Impaler, Gustavus Adolphus, the count of Alba, Piccolomini, Wallenstein, Mehmed the Mad and a myriad of others. Because if you do you would realize that Columbus was just your standard merc. In fact avoid books about history, climb back into the bubble and sit there and say lalalalala hooooooom gimme tranquillity now.
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  52. Stu Bur. no it doesn't but why name it Indigenous People's Day. In Latin america it is Día de la Raza, a day which celebrates reconciliation, this renaming doesn't do that.
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  53. Stu Bur. nope buddy, this officially now hate white men day in LA, congrats, LA just gave Trump another percentage point in his reelection campaign. How fuckin' stupid is this, they could have named it Voters Day, excellent name, they could even have made it so that it would be an actual day to vote in local government, but they opted for this stupid shit instead.
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  54. The5armdamput33. Because you compared Columbus to Hitler. "Where you can learn about people like Columbus and Hitler..." I gave you a historical figure who actually was the pre renaissance Hitler to give you a sense of scope and scale.
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  55. Khashon Haselrig. "that is pointedly untrue. Throughout history you can find individuals that would be ahead of even TODAY. History is written by the victor(ious narcissistic sociopath conquerors) so it SEEMS that way. Columbus was basically a venture capitalist CEO of the past. Subsidised by his government to pillage for them." Like certain founder of a monotheistic religion. Hypocrite.
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  56. Julia Winkler. Yes he was, so let's start by deleting all genocidal assholes from history, Simon Bolivar, a genocidal asshole, Berardo O'Higgins, a genocidal asshole, San Martin, a genocidal asshole, Benito Juarez, a genocidal asshole, fuck yeah, delete history, delete literature and poems, destroy all holy books, ftw the greater good, get over it.
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  57. Julia Winkler. Pablo Neruda supported the Soviet Union and the Soviets murdered the Tatars, the Chechens, the Estonians, Mongols, Kalmyks, Volga Germans, Ukrainians and numerous others, yeah Pablo supported genocidal assholes too, we should burn his beautiful poems, destroy his houses and delete him from history too. Do you see my point or do you need a flowchart?
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  58. The5armdamput33. I agree, don't celebrate assholes, but don't whitewash the history of pre Colombian America either, it creates a us vs them mentality and that shit is scary as fuck. If you are to chose a name, chose a inclusive one, not an exclusive one. In group out group dynamic. Don't compare every bad guy to Hitler, Hitler was a lvl 1000 monster, Columbus was about lvl 100(still fuckin' bad, but remember the parade of bad guys in history and then Columbus is a lot less scary)
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  59. The5armdamput33. "And I think the idea behind it comes from a good place (it's reconciliatory to a marginalized group)" Tribalism is never a good thing, tribalism brought the horrors of the past. "And I think that the argument that it erases history is dishonest...." You wish it to be so and so do I.
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  60. VengfulDarkness. That explains a lot, when you finally learn the truth of Columbus you think he is a unique monster in World history, he isn't, he is just one more monster of which history has thousands, Caesar for-instance killed 1 million Gauls and took 1 million of them as slaves...
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  61. The5armdamput33. Then I have to inform you, your educational system is sub par. The Romans were worse than you think, ask yourself, what could motivate a rich young man like Arminius to revolt... As For Columbus it amazes me that you aren't taught that his direct actions were responsible for the deaths of approximately 500,000 deaths.(Famine and death by violence, disease not included). But in the grand scale of things he was a minor creator of murder and mayhem.
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  62. The5armdamput33. Stone weaponry vs steel, gunpowder and horses, very short fight. But even in this comment section somebody said his own men rebelled because he was cruel, they didn't rebel because he was cruel, they rebelled because they were Hidalgos(nobles) and he was just a foreign born Genovese commoner merc and they wanted all the loot for themselves.
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  63. The5armdamput33. I apologize, it's just the lack of knowledge that frustrates me, from both sides of the argument. Not you though.
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  64. Julia Winkler. Are you the Man Monday or will you be the decent human in SIchuan.
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  65. Novusod. Who also owned slaves, Irish slaves so they were the wrong kind of slaves in your particular optics.
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  66. Oh no, they'll never do that, this is just a feel good measure for spoiled rich kids.
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  67. RageAgainstTheMachine RageAgainstTheMachine. They didn't have maps. Kaalinat nu'utnat ke'etnati.
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  68. Angel Fox. Yes he fought Fascists and then he condemned Communism, he thought both ideologies were wrong, nice try Angel Fox. He disliked totalitarianism and who are the totalitarians again, Fascists to the right and Communists to the left(Socialists and Communists isn't the same thing captain smartypants)
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  69. Angel Fox. Repenting for past historical crimes, are any of the culprits still alive that could be prosecuted and sentenced, do you want to exhume Columbus and sentence his corpse?
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  70. Angel Fox. Are there any other slavers and murderers from history that you are carefully ignoring in order to avoid some other rather painful conversations? I mean instead of naming it Indigenous People's Day it could be renamed Dia la Raza to celebrate reconciliation, but I doubt that's the point of this mea culpa festival.
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  71. How Now. Can you see another continent from your window Sarah Palin?
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  72. How Now. Only if you opened your front door, got in a glorified rowboat with only hard tack and a barrel of water as supplies and caught up with the plane using muscle power, yes then you could have a statue Sarah.
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  73. How Now. That's fine you do that, but I think it's very insensitive of you to celebrate VE(or as it will be known in your honor, VPL day) day and Christmas. Very insensitive to celebrate Christmas, it should be Yuletide instead celebrating the violent conquest of my pagan ancestors, in fact you should sacrifice 9 humans beings to atone for that imperialist co-option of my culture, just like my ancestors did. Chop chop lad, get to it.
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  74. How Now. Also just pop down to the nearest synagogue and tell them that entire Yom Kippur thing is wrong, why they are celebrating the deaths of Egyptian children, very insensitive, they have to rename it.
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  75. How Now. And Independence Day should be renamed to Brutal Slaughter of Britons Day, yup, very insensitive to the British who btw protected their native allies against the cruel Americans rebels who wouldn't pay their fair share of the defense budget.
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  76. How Now. Does all of this sound fair Sarah?
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  77. How Now. Ahahaha, not so fast, you have to do the other things first, that's the rules because I say so and if you disagree you're a fascist/commie/misogynist/nazi/islamophobe....
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  78. How Now. Yes then we can repeat the same stupid shit over and over and over again, that's the way you like it.
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  79. On the plus side I'm presently keeping a overly sensitive TYT intern employed as she/he is furiously trying to fiddle with the algorithm to remove any semblance of rational dissent, I hope they pay you well whoever you are.
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  80. How Now. No my friend, you want a statue, I want reconciliation, but it isn't important what you or I want, it is important that spoiled little children can perform penance for something they had nothing to do with because some local official wants to get reelected. That's all this stupid shit is and since you really can't present any sensible counter argument to that obvious truth we can let you get back to removing dumb antisemitic remarks on the main channel.
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  81. How Now. Yes you can get a statue and a reach around and feel good prize and Trump gets to win Nevada, New Mexico, New Jersey in the next election because pandering to clueless welsh carrots was more important than reconciling human beings with one another.
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  82. How Now. If you want a statue you can get a statue, I just want peace, replace one tribal march with another, changes nothing, creates more hate, tribal parades usually do that. Enjoy your statue.
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  83. Dan Underwood. "I agree we should not stop. We should all fight for what is right." For everybody.
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  84. supercormey. Maybe not, but still a decent human is a decent human.
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  85. A dog meme. 133,000 to 705,000 with some recent scholars concluding that these estimates are low.
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  86. Dan Underwood. Yes he did, not millions though, probably 250,000 at most, the rest died from diseases brought by Europeans.
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  87. Khashon Haselrig. It's your hypocrisy and innate lack of understanding what this renaming is that annoys me, the object should be to reconcile people with the past, not to scapegoat the blameless descendants of the conquerors, it akin to original sin in the bible and blaming all women for humans getting kicked out of fictional Nirvana.
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  88. Dan Underwood. Much like Muhammad then, go down to the local mosque and tell them that they can't celebrate Ramadan and cancel Christmas and Yom Kippur also, how dare anybody celebrate anything at all, the rules should be applied equally Daniel, Daniel is a curious name, very anti Babylonian, racist name you've got, you have to change it.
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  89. Dan Underwood. All religions teach falsehoods, the first one they teach is this "believe us without proof." Daniel got stuck with a Lion and Skyman gave him the power to foretell the future and Skyman punished Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians for Daniel, Daniel was a man of hate and superstition.
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  90. Dan Underwood. "Those "savage" religions of aboriginal people were more realistic. At least the sun is proven to give us life and scientifically we are all connected." Neo colonialist narrative detected, noble savage narrative detected, failure to understand Yahweh as a bronze age fire deity detected, thank you for your time citizen, commencing reeducation. "By all accounts Daniel never existed but all the religions that do mention him consider him a man of peace and understanding. Begging for the punishment of the man who raided your city and abducted you to be less harsh doesn't seem to be hateful to me. I agree though that if he did exist like the religious texts describe him he was a man of superstition." By all accounts the sadistic fire deity Yahweh promised Daniel vengeance before he got chucked into the pit, failure to understand said parable detected.
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  91. Dan Underwood. Agriculturalists growing corn, squash, potato, building magnificent cities, organizing in societies with fixed hierarchies with laws and organized religion were also present. Noble savage paternalistic stupidity reemerges.
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  92. Dan Underwood. "Nope. The Europeans brought the falsehoods out and now that people tell the truth they make it out like it is we who are doing the white washing. This whole thing is a symptom.... the disease is the Eurocentric propaganda allowed to infect our schools and society merely because they were effective in their slaughters and suppression. Nope not me. I'm not the one advocating for keeping ignorance alive. That's you. You're on the side of the slave owners. Your weak and comically sad defense of blatant falsehoods and idol worship is really pathetic. You would leave people the fuck alone? No your attitude of ignorance and allowing brainwashing is what will make sure that history repeats itself." Did I advocate for the name to remain the same? nope, I advocated for another name that would acknowledge all the people living in the Americas today instead of this paternalistic BS you like.
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  93. Dan Underwood. Yes massah, whatever effendi. you still completely fail to acknowledge their human agency and you fail to understand in group out group dynamics. Too rare to die, too dumb to live.
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  94. Dan Underwood. Read this, I hope you might learn something, but I doubt it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism
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  95. Dan Underwood. Facts, here are some facts about actual humans doing human things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comancheria http://plainshumanities.unl.edu/encyclopedia/doc/egp.war.023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawnee_people
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  96. Dan Underwood. Except, prior to Europeans conflict on the plains. Intertribal warfare was intense throughout the Great Plains during the 1700s and 1800s, and archeological data indicate that warfare was present prior to this time. Human skeletons from as early as the Woodland Period (250 B.C. to A.D. 900) show occasional marks of violence, but conflict intensified during and after the thirteenth century, by which time farmers were well established in the Plains. After 1250, villages were often destroyed by fire, and human skeletons regularly show marks of violence, scalping, and other mutilations. Warfare was most intense along the Missouri River in the present-day Dakotas, where ancestors of the Mandans, Hidatsas, and Arikaras were at war with each other, and towns inhabited by as many as 1,000 people were often fortified with ditch and palisade defenses. Excavations at the Crow Creek site, an ancestral Arikara town dated to 1325, revealed the bodies of 486 people–men, women, and children, essentially the town's entire population–in a mass grave. These individuals had been scalped and dismembered, and their bones showed clear evidence of severe malnutrition, suggesting that violence resulted from competition for food, probably due to local overpopulation and climatic deterioration. Violence among farmers continued from the 1500s through the late 1800s.
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  97. Dan Underwood. You are talking about the Plains tribes/Eastern woodland tribes and the Caribbean tribes only now. Pre European Scalping. "After 1250, villages were often destroyed by fire, and human skeletons regularly show marks of violence, scalping, and other mutilations." Requiring a siege to take a fortified settlement, that's protracted warfare. "Warfare was most intense along the Missouri River in the present-day Dakotas, where ancestors of the Mandans, Hidatsas, and Arikaras were at war with each other, and towns inhabited by as many as 1,000 people were often fortified with ditch and palisade defenses." As for the Caribbean tribes there was far more people than in the plains or eastern woodlands, the Taino, Arawaks and Caribs would engage in war with each other, the Caribs invaded the lesser Antilles and drove out the Taino. The eastern woodland tribes would and could engage in warfare against each other, the Pequot were vassals to the Massachusetts and so in the beginning they allied themselves to the English to fight off their overlords.
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  98. Dan Underwood. Where there are humans there is strife, misery, death and war.
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  99. Dan Underwood. Casualty numbers correlates to technology and organization. A tribe of 500 can kill 50 human beings, a tribe of 326 million with ICBMs can annihilate all life.
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  100. Dan Underwood. Naive, tribalism is incredibly destructive.
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  101. Dan Underwood. Then stop doing it.
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  102. Dan Underwood. No Danny, I want the name changed too, changed to something inclusive for all.
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  103. Dan Underwood. It could be Hasanoanda Day instead couldn't it then, very inclusive...A US general who fought to end slavery, far better than "Indigenous People's Day" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely_S._Parker
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  104. Dan Underwood. Read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely_S._Parker
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  105. Dan Underwood. What is your tribe.
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  106. Dan Underwood. Naive. Tribes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans
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  107. Dan Underwood. Ahem, this is some what funny coming from you who believed that the native population had horses. What revisionist history, who exactly do you think wrote those history books and eye witness accounts that condemned Columbus actions, Ill give you a hint Daniel, they were all very pale and the eye witnesses were all quite religious and pale.
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  108. Dan Underwood. Yes Danny boy, it will and nobody will remember why conquest and genocide is bad in a couple of generations and then we can do it all over again.
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  109. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Blessed is the mind too small for doubt. Unaware and Compliant...
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  110. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Just like you do, replace Columbus with Mohammad and you'll be defending death and misery like a meth head looking for a last fix.
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  111. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Yes, yes, yes, resorting to base insults, no they wouldn't allow any statues according to their scripture, nor any paintings of any kind. Your hypocrisy is mind blowing. One is wrong and the other is right, pro-tip, perhaps things aren't so binary. ANAHEIM A parade of diversity that is Islam in Southern California was on full display at Angel Stadium on Sunday for the annual Eid prayer celebration. Signaling the end of Ramadan, a period of fasting and reflection, Eid-a-fitr is a festive, worldwide celebration in Islam. In Orange County, a crowd of about 20,000 filled the stadium’s field and spilled into the stands for Southern California’s largest Eid prayer service. Several regular attendees said this year’s gathering was the biggest crowd they had seen. The field was filled with a symphony of languages and cultures from the Middle East, Asia, Africa and the United States. Attendees were of all ages. The garb and style covered a swath of colors and East-meets-West combinations, such as the man wearing neon colored sunglasses and tennis shoes with his kufti hat. There were young men in three-piece suits with women with modern hairdos and dresses, and older men with beards and traditional thobe and abaya garments and women with hijabs and burkas. What they shared was a unity of spirit. “You see people of all races and many cultures her, but we’re all Americans,” said Omar Siddiqui, an attorney running for Congress. “Most of us were born here.” Dr. Munaf Kadri was born in India but raised and educated in Orange County and went to medical school at UC Irvine. He was part of a group of medical students who helped create the University Muslim Medical Association, which created two community clinics in South Los Angeles with a third on the way that seeing under-served residents. “We’re a generation that grew up here,” said Kadri, of Yorba Linda, who is on the UMMA Community Clinic board, and said the clinic provides services with Islamic ideals. “We try to treat everyone as we would like to be treated.” Shabbir Mansuri of Fountain Valley is an educator and founding director of the Institute on Religion & Civic Values. He said Muslims as a large minority in the United States are beneficiaries of the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965 and as such relative newcomers to the American societal fabric. That can account in part for some of the difficulties Muslims have had assimilating. But Mansuri added that his fellow Muslims should be grateful because “You have a place at the table.” Unlike last year, when protesters tried to disrupt attendees on the outskirts of the event, held outdoors in the stadium parking lot, this year’s event went off without a hitch. Anyone seeking entry had to have a ticket and all passed through metal detectors. Issa Edah-Tally, the event director, admitted that security was a concern, particularly after reports started coming in about a car crashing into celebrants of an Eid in England, injuring six. Although officials did not believe that was terror-related, it comes only a week after a van injured 10 people when it rammed into worshipers in London, an incident believed to be terror-related. “Our faith is under attack,” Edah-Tally said. “We have no idea where such hideous attacks come from, but we condemn them.” Ismail Sameer, 23, from Garden Grove, said he does not respond when he hears anti-Islamic rhetoric. “I just don’t listen,” he said. “I don’t give them the time.” Given the political and media climate, some attendees and families were hesitant to talk with reporters, although one offered room on his family prayer mat for a reporter to share. After prayers, Muzammil Siddiqui of the Islamic Society of Orange County spoke about the values and principles of his faith. “We are Muslims and our actions must be Islamic,” he said. “And evil cannot be Islamic.” In many cases, Muzammil Siddique said, the faith has been hijacked, literally and figuratively. “Some use Islamic slogans, they are not Islam,” he said. “No one should be deceived by them.” The Eid is sponsored by three Orange County mosques: the Islamic Society of Orange County in Garden Grove, the Islamic Institute of Orange County in Anaheim and the Islamic Center of Irvine. The combining of the large congregations makes for a big party every year. Minzah Malik of Huntington Beach attended with her mother, husband and two children. As she waved to passersby, she said, aside from the prayer service, which is segregated by gender, “It’s a very united event.” As for the challenges of being Muslim in the United States she said, “We have to be a little more vigilant, but life goes on.”
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  112. AmericanNohbuddy ™. "They aren't comparable." Let's compare the two. Columbus: Religious fanatical pedophile genocidal conqueror. Muhammad: Religious fanatical pedophile genocidal conqueror. Wow, they are identical.
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  113. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Why am I bringing up muslims, I could bring up Aztecs instead, should I do that, they were also genocidal religious fanatical conquerors. I bring it up to highlight your hypocrisy, you don't have standards, you have what is in your mind twice as good, double standards.
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  114. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Hatred, I don't hate them at all, I see them as no different than Europeans, Chinese, Indians or the pre colombian population. I see them all as humans full of human flaws and virtues, with endless capacity for good and evil, hate isn't a part of my rationale at all. As for statues, Islam forbids the human form represented in any form, why do you think ISIS blows up statues. There were no statues for the Spanish and the Venetians to remove.
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  115. AmericanNohbuddy ™.. "You're not making any point as to why we should keep a holiday named for a genocidal bastard." Indigenous People's Day, what does this name signify, it signifies that all the Indigenous people were "good" as opposed to Columbus being "evil" and that is just fuckin' retarded.
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  116. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Binary, you are so binary, up is down, black is white, zero nuance.
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  117. AmericanNohbuddy ™. You brought up statues dude, I didn't, I never said the name should remain the same, I suggested that the name should be changed to something that acknowledges the entire population of the Americas today, but nope, it's to be hashtag fiesta and guilt trip instead. No attempt at nuance, just boo hiss bad Europeans, good Indigenous people and lets not mention any of the other millions who descend from neither or in part descend from neither.
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  118. AmericanNohbuddy ™. You still don't get it, replacing one tribal parade with another won't make anything better.
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  119. AmericanNohbuddy ™. I'm not ignoring them, I'm telling you that it would have been better to make it a festival that was for everyone, this will end tears.
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  120. AmericanNohbuddy ™.Who would cry over Christmas.... Do you see how it will be...
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  121. AmericanNohbuddy ™. One day you'll get it, but you have to be the bad guy for a moment.
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  122. AmericanNohbuddy ™. By Royal decree we ban the celebration of the papist Idol Patrick and command the peons of Ireland to instead give thanks to Christ only in the name of King James anointed by God, head of the Church of England.
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  123. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Replacing one tribes festival with another tribes festival. There is an alternative to that, that would have been better.
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  124. AmericanNohbuddy ™. "Is MLK day a tribal festival? It's a three day weekend." Yes.
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  125. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Yes a festival for the tribe to celebrate a good human being who set an example for others to follow.
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  126. AmericanNohbuddy ™. Can you?, do you have the capacity to sacrifice your own life for others. What did he risk his life for, he risked his life so that the tribe would accept his group into the tribe.
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  127. AmericanNohbuddy ™. MLK was an individual who wanted inclusion, this replacement "Indigenous People's Day"! is only for 64 million, not 326 million, have a nice day.
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  128. Mark Rudy. Don't tell them Leif Erikson had thralls(slaves).
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  129. Khashon Haselrig. Eid celebrating the battle of trench and the genocidal campaigns of a certain warlord, now go down and tell people who celebrate Eid that they can't do that, I fuckin' dare you to do that. Hypocrite.
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  130. KC. Lol you think I'm American, hahahahaha, I'm Scandinavian, I read the Sagas, Greenlandic Saga to be specific. "Why, does that make him something different? Do you think I defend that? Are you THAT FUCKING DESPERATE to worship humans who rape and pillage?" That's exactly the point you fool. All human cultures do these things, only technology decided who was victorious in the end. So instead maybe start paying attention to why it is wrong no matter who does it, the Aztecs were assholes, so were the Spanish, there were Taino assholes and Fulani assholes, we all have our fair share of assholes.
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  131. KC. "So did the fucking plague, idiot" And how did the plague get from Northern Korea to the Atlantic coast, I want you to really think, use those brain cells, how did it happen, what was the chain of events that spread the bubonic plague. I know the answer...
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  132. Now, 500 plus years later, we recall his deeds and celebrate not Columbus the man, but the actions and influences of all the people who came after him, who melded their European culture with the indigenous cultures and, with difficulty, blood and years of battle, misunderstandings and treachery, have created the multi-cultural, multi-ethnic society we now celebrate with the Día de la Raza. Celebrating all the people who now live there is a bit different from calling it Indigenous People's Day. Do this instead, that's what people do in South America, except in Venezuela, they picked a name very similar to the LA one.
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  133. yumpladukfoo. it celebrated the conquest of America, now it mourns the conquered and reviles the descendants of the conquerors. So now it's a pity fiesta in LA for people who redefined original sin.
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  134. Julia Winkler. Renaming it is fine, but the name though, think a little further down that road, methinks there is hate in your heart.
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  135. Joseph Flaherty. Methinks I'm bored.
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  136. Who did Captain James Cook kill?
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  137. A dog meme. Ah that explains it, the SJWs think Peter Pan was real live boy.
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  138. Tenack. This is what they do in Latin America instead, can you see the difference between the two. Now 500 plus years later, we recall his deeds and celebrate not Columbus the man, but the actions and influences of all the people who came after him, who melded their European culture with the indigenous cultures and, with difficulty, blood and years of battle, misunderstandings and treachery, have created the multi-cultural, multi-ethnic society we now celebrate with the Día de la Raza. Celebrating all the people who now live there is a bit different from calling it Indigenous People's Day.
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  139. Tenack. But this renaming isn't that, it's just another way to garner votes without actually having an adult conversation about what actually happened.
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  140. Now, 500 plus years later, we recall his deeds and celebrate not Columbus the man, but the actions and influences of all the people who came after him, who melded their European culture with the indigenous cultures and, with difficulty, blood and years of battle, misunderstandings and treachery, have created the multi-cultural, multi-ethnic society we now celebrate with the Día de la Raza. Celebrating all the people who now live there is a bit different from calling it Indigenous People's Day. But hey don't let reality disturb the bubble.
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  141. Julia Winkler. You are righteous and therefore how can you be wrong, you are righteous and you fight for what is your good. In your heart you are just like Columbus.
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  142. Rick Deckard. De Las Casas was mortified, everybody else just ignored him, the sad fact is that back then it was a gory horror show every where, you would have seen the Mandans annihilated by Sioux, Aztecs murdering Mixtecs for sport, Turks roaming around murdering and looting, Hungarians having a field day killing Serbs and vice versa and on and on it went, De Las Casas was a rarity at the time.
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  143. Julia Winkler. Really, Did you even read my post or is this just the usual pavlovian response, La Dia La Raza, google it.
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  144. Julia Winkler. It must be easy to see the World in absolutes, good vs evil, usually that is reserved for the people who doesn't know their own capacity for evil. Is your heart pure, are you good, is there no room for doubt, when you see your reflection do you only see the light and no shadow?
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  145. Julia Winkler. No it was a holiday for a terrible human being connected to one group, now it's a holiday only reserved for another group, more tribalism achieved, more hate, more division.
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  146. Julia Winkler. Some will, I would, most wouldn't, let's say I go in this present political climate, I wouldn't be safe, I'm a man, I'm white, I look like the enemy and though most wouldn't see me as such some would and what then, it only takes one fool to make it all go wrong and then there will be hate and division. And that will be the end of your beautiful dream, they should have chosen another name, this name encourages the vindictive to act with violence, the victims are allways justified after all, this white guy wasn't the bad guy, but who cares, he looked like an enemy so it was justified.
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  147. Julia Winkler. It could have been another name, Unity Day, Liberty Day, A Day of Peace, A day of Remembering the past, instead one tribe supplanted another and that isn't the path to change, that's just another turn of the wheel, winding down and eating itself like a snake, hate begets hate, tribe supplants tribe, no this wasn't thought out well at all.
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  148. Rick Deckard. You still don't get it, I'm against all identity politics, white, black, brown, it all has to go, so does Columbus, none of it is any good.
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  149. Rick Deckard. I'm not defending Columbus at all, the ones that are defending are saying that they can't change the past, neither can you or I, we can't, we don't have access to a time machine. And I do repeatedly state that he was a bad guy, but this ignored and instead an angry mob descends wishing to win for their tribe. Do you want me to apologize for smallpox. measles, tuberculosis, gunpowder, horses, the church, writing, maths, the compass, rigged sails, cartography, the Vatican and all its art and all the kings men...
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  150. Rick Deckard. Do you get it now, I'm not your enemy, your enemy is the idea of tribes. That's my enemy too.
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  151. Rick Deckard. Very few do, replacing one tribal festival with another solves nothing, I've said my piece and I'm tired of this endless back and forth, you know my point isn't incorrect, it's just painful to accept it.
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  152. Julia Winkler. A member of the tribe descends, a warrior furie, heart full of hate and righteous indignation, God is with her and all the Cherubs guarding the gates of heaven follows in her footsteps, blade ablaze and they strike down the infidel, how dare there be questions and doubt, for if God is with her who can be against her and her tribe.
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  153. Julia Winkler. Kill the rest, God will know his own. Julie Winkler. Anno Domini 2017.
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  154. Julia Winkler. I recall that man and not two centuries have passed since I saw him, he went neither by horse nor by carriage: purely on foot he outstripped distances, and carried no sword or armour, only nets on his shoulder, axe or hammer or spade, never fighting the rest of his species: his exploits were with water and earth, with wheat so that it turned into bread, with giant trees to render them wood, with walls to open up doors, with sand to construct the walls, and with ocean for it to bear. I knew him and he is still not cancelled in me. The carriages fell to pieces, war destroyed doors and walls, the city was a handful of ashes, all the clothes turned to dust, and he remains to me, he survives in the sand, when everything before seemed imperishable but him. In the going and coming of families at times he was my father or kinsman or perhaps it was scarcely him or not the one who did not return to his house because water or earth swallowed him up or a tree or an engine killed him, or he was the saddened carpenter who went behind the coffin, without tears, someone in the end who had no name, except those that metal or timber have, and on whom others gazed from on high without seeing the ant for the anthill and so that when his feet did not stir, because the poor exhausted one had died, they never saw what they had not seen: already there were other feet where he'd been. The other feet were still his, and the other hands, the man remained: when it seemed that now he was done for he was the same once more, there he was digging again at the earth, cutting cloth, minus a shirt, there he was and was not, like before, he had gone down and was once more, and since he never owned graveyards, or tombs, nor was his name carved on the stone he sweated to quarry, no one knew he had come and no one knew when he died, so that only when the poor man could he returned to life once more, without it being noted. He was the man, no doubt of it, without heritage, without cattle, without a flag, and he was not distinguished from others, the others who were him, from the heights he was grey like the subsoil, tanned like the leather, he was yellow reaping the wheat, he was black down in the mine, he was the colour of stone on the fortress, in the fishing boat the colour of tuna, and the colour of horses in the meadow: how could anyone distinguish him if he was inseparable, elemental, earth, coal or sea vested in man? Where he lived whatever a man touched grew: the hostile stones, quarried by his hands, took on order and one by one formed the right clarity of a building, he made bread with his hands, moved the engines, the distances peopled themselves with towns, other men grew, bees arrived, and by man's creating and breeding spring walked the market squares between bakeries and doves. The maker of loaves was forgotten, he who quarried and journeyed, beating down and opening furrows, transporting sand, when everything existed he no longer existed, he gave his existence, that's all. He went elsewhere to labour, and at last he was dead, rolling like a stone in the river: death carried him downstream. I, who knew him, saw him descend till he was no longer except what he left: roads he could scarcely know, houses he never ever would live in. I turn to see him, and I await him I see him in his grave and resurrected. I distinguish him among all who are his equals and it seems to me it cannot be, that like this we go nowhere, that to survive like this holds no glory. I believe that this man must be enthroned, rightly shod and crowned. I believe that those who made such things must be the masters of all these things. And that those who made bread should eat! And those in the mines must have light! Enough now of grey men enslaved! Enough of the pale 'missing ones'! Not another man passes except as a king. Not a single woman without her crown. Golden gauntlets for every hand. Fruits of the sun for all the unknowns! I knew that man and when I could, when he still had eyes in his head, when he still had a voice in his mouth I searched for him among tombs, and I said grasping his arm that was not yet dust: 'All will be gone, you will live on, You ignite life. You made what is yours.' So let no one trouble themselves when I seem to be alone and am not alone, I am with no one and speak for them all: Some listen to me, without knowing, but those I sing, those who do know go on being born, and will fill up the Earth.
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  155. Julia Winkler. I'm an Atheist, both Religions are horrible, one difference between Islam and Christianity, you submit to Islam, you accept Christ. Another difference is that the Bible has several versions and the Bible isn't the direct word of God, the Quran is written by God with Mohammad transcribing down Gods direct commands, basically the Quran is all old testament and no new testament, nothing about turning the other cheek, the Quran all is eye for an eye.
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  156. Julia Winkler. All of this for instance is St. Pauls advice to the Romans, it is not the direct word of God, the Romans could chose to ignore it and so can any Christian without being a heretic. Romans 13: 1-7 Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Rom 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment Rom 13:3 for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad. Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation Rom 13:4 for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be in fear, for it does not bear the sword in vain. It is God’s servant to administer retribution on the wrongdoer. Rom 13:5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience. Rom 13:6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants devoted to governing. Rom 13:7 Pay everyone what is owed: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.
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  157. Julia Winkler. This St Pauls advice for how to be a Christian. "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God." Here is what Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". Basically since the second Lateran council St. Paul has been considered obsolete. That's the difference, the Quran is the direct commands of God, there is no contradictions within it, there cannot be because for the believer God is infallible.
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  158. Rick Deckard. I desire to know how the believer thinks and how religion influenced cultures and societies. And so I can recognize a reference to faith in other works of art and literature.
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  159. Julia Winkler. I think you believe that everything European is automatically inherently evil and so you desire revenge, btw I was born in Greenland. Now kindly go fuck yourself you hateful narrowminded racist bigot.
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  160. Rick Deckard. I do that too, Julia is their mirror image, all hate and no brains.
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  161. Julia Winkler. Meaning pay taxes. He was asked a question, it means obey the law and pay taxes you utter idiot.
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  162. Julia Winkler. And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. 14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Cæsar, or not? 15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Cæsar’s. 17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Cæsar the things that are Cæsar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him. Do you even understand what language imagery is, what context is.
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  163. Julia Winkler. Decided Church Canon...That how reinterpretations are made and it is decided what is or isn't canon, for instance tolerance of non Christians is now Canon. Read some books. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenical_council
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  164. Julia Winkler. "2 sides same coin!" Not in the present, there are no Crusaders today, but Jihadis still exist, ISIS behaves very much like Conquistadors did in the past.
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  165. Julia Winkler. They did that in 1648.
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  166. Julia Winkler. "Well that is mighty white of them" You seem obsessed with skin color.
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  167. Julia Winkler. "Like they may as well have told millions for centuries to eat shit and die, now we return the favor your council and all its members can eat shit and die for all we care. They got no power now, cause if they did we know what they would be doing, usual suspects to the last." In truth you desire revenge, that's your dream, what happened to people standing side by side as one? "We are not alone either many a European is now in our kin and families their our coworkers associates friends, their in our beds our lovers and on and on. They know us human beings they know our feelings, they feel what we feel. This in not a racial issue this is a human issue of our times..... We want change."
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  168. Julia Winkler. "Now kindly go fuck yourself you hateful narrowminded racist bigot." I apologize for this, it was unfair, crass and uncouth and probably a gross simplification. And entirely wrong.
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  169. Rick Deckard. In order, various expressions of a desire for vengeance. "When you hear these fascist/colonizing loving evil jerks scream, see why it is important to fight to remove things like Columbus day? They know false perception is all they got left to hide their hate under! More this stuff fades so will they, like they've been doing for decades, their outnumbered in their death throes and they sense it." The other dehumanized and described as evil, every man, woman and child and death throes are coming. Who will do the killing? "Ask "no one" that question its his bringing religion to this, if your offended by my world view. Trust me your views offended me and every one like me for centuries first!" Apparently she's immortal. Btw It isn't my Religion either, but that doesn't matter. I offended by mentioning Christianity and so now I am included in the group that murdered her ancestors and what is the punishment for murder. "We aim to undo what as you call it what the angry mob did, as has been already explained and you have no answer for cause there isn't one. Were not wrong you are!" We are right and you are wrong clearly stated, who is the we in this equation? And why do I have to pay for the actions of a dead man? "Like they may as well have told millions for centuries to eat shit and die, now we return the favor your council and all its members can eat shit and die for all we care. They got no power now, cause if they did we know what they would be doing, usual suspects to the last." A distinct desire to kill Catholics who lives today to make them pay for the crimes of the ancestors, I wonder if she's aware that Pope Francis that seems like a decent human being with no malice at all. And who's actually trying to reconcile different faiths and people.
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  170. Julia Winkler. "You know hes a racist hateful piece of shit, look down the line of posts, " "Were not wrong you are" "Like they may as well have told millions for centuries to eat shit and die, now we return the favor your council and all its members can eat shit and die for all we care. They got no power now, cause if they did we know what they would be doing, usual suspects to the last." "Well that is mighty white of them"
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  171. Julia Winkler. "Its like people like you are so detached from humanity or just common decency. You can't grasp that when a name so shrouded in villainous evil perversion cruelty and disgrace is placed upon anything, it debauches it. This whole country is lessened by having a holiday for a genocidal criminal, that were he to rise today should be hung instantly with piano wire, like the the Nazis of the 20th century. You have not a leg to stand on!"
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  172. Julia Winkler. Bartolomé de las Casas c. 1484– 18 July 1566) was a 16th-century Spanish historian, social reformer and Dominican friar. The spiritual tradition of Dominic's Order is punctuated not only by charity, study and preaching, but also by instances of mystical union. The Dominican emphasis on learning and on charity distinguishes it from other monastic and mendicant orders. As the order first developed on the European continent, learning continued to be emphasized by these friars and their sisters in Christ. These religious also struggled for a deeply personal, intimate relationship with God. Also in 1536, before venturing into Tuzulutlan, Las Casas went to Oaxaca, Mexico, to participate in a series of discussions and debates among the bishops of the Dominican and Franciscan orders. The two orders had very different approaches to the conversion of the Indians. The Franciscans used a method of mass conversion, sometimes baptizing many thousands of Indians in a day. This method was championed by prominent Franciscans such as Toribio de Benavente, known as "Motolinia", and Las Casas made many enemies among the Franciscans for arguing that conversions made without adequate understanding were invalid. Las Casas wrote a treatise called "De unico vocationis modo" (On the Only Way of Conversion) based on the missionary principles he had used in Guatemala. Motolinia would later be a fierce critic of Las Casas, accusing him of being all talk and no action when it came to converting the Indians. As a direct result of the debates between the Dominicans and Franciscans and spurred on by Las Casas's treatise, Pope Paul III promulgated the Bull "Sublimis Deus," which stated that the Indians were rational beings and should be brought peacefully to the faith as such. Las Casas returned to Guatemala in 1537 wanting to employ his new method of conversion based on two principles: 1) to preach the Gospel to all men and treat them as equals, and 2) to assert that conversion must be voluntary and based on knowledge and understanding of the Faith. It was important for Las Casas that this method be tested without meddling from secular colonists, so he chose a territory in the heart of Guatemala where there were no previous colonies and where the natives were considered fierce and war-like. Because of the fact that the land had not been possible to conquer by military means, the governor of Guatemala, Alonso de Maldonado, agreed to sign a contract promising that if the venture was successful he would not establish any new encomiendas in the area. Las Casas's group of friars established a Dominican presence in Rabinal, Sacapulas and Cobán. Through the efforts of Las Casas's missionaries the so-called "Land of War" came to be called "Verapaz", "True Peace". Las Casas's strategy was to teach Christian songs to merchant Indian Christians who then ventured into the area. In this way he was successful in converting several native chiefs, among them those of Atitlán and Chichicastenango, and in building several churches in the territory named Alta Verapaz. These congregated a group of Christian Indians in the location of what is now the town of Rabinal. In 1538 Las Casas was recalled from his mission by Bishop Marroquín who wanted him to go to Mexico and then on to Spain in order to seek more Dominicans to assist in the mission. Las Casas left Guatemala for Mexico, where he stayed for more than a year before setting out for Spain in 1540. "Vampires blood suckers are an will be blood suckers or Christian as the case may be, always was so still is only faces change."
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  173. Julia Winkler. The TRC was set up in terms of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, No. 34 of 1995, and was based in Cape Town. The hearings started in 1996. The mandate of the commission was to bear witness to, record, and in some cases grant amnesty to the perpetrators of crimes relating to human rights violations, as well as reparation and rehabilitation. The TRC had a number of high-profile members, including Archbishop Desmond Tutu (chairman), Alex Boraine (deputy chairman), Sisi Khampepe, Wynand Malan, and Emma Mashinini. Desmond Mpilo Tutu CH (born 7 October 1931) is a South African social rights activist and retired Anglican bishop who rose to worldwide fame during the 1980s as an opponent of apartheid. He was the first black Archbishop of Cape Town and bishop of the Church of the Province of Southern Africa (now the Anglican Church of Southern Africa). Since the demise of apartheid in South Africa, Tutu has campaigned to fight HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, poverty, racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984; the Albert Schweitzer Prize for Humanitarianism in 1986; the Pacem in Terris Award in 1987; the Sydney Peace Prize in 1999; the Gandhi Peace Prize in 2007; and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2009. He has also compiled several books of his speeches and sayings. "Vampires blood suckers are an will be blood suckers or Christian as the case may be, always was so still is only faces change."
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  174. Julia Winkler. "I remember one set of twins in particular: Guido and Ina, aged about four. One day, Mengele took them away. When they returned, they were in a terrible state: they had been sewn together, back to back, like Siamese twins. Their wounds were infected and oozing pus. They screamed day and night. Then their parents—I remember the mother's name was Stella—managed to get some morphine and they killed the children in order to end their suffering." "You know hes a racist hateful piece of shit, look down the line of posts, " "Its like people like you are so detached from humanity or just common decency. You can't grasp that when a name so shrouded in villainous evil perversion cruelty and disgrace is placed upon anything, it debauches it. This whole country is lessened by having a holiday for a genocidal criminal, that were he to rise today should be hung instantly with piano wire, like the the Nazis of the 20th century. You have not a leg to stand on!"
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  175. Julia Winkler. "One people that shared the fate of the Jews were the Romanies. They, too, had been persecuted through the ages and, like the Jews, the Romanies were isolated and liquidated, country by country. Unlike the Jews, however, they left almost no records of the atrocities committed against them, which were no less horrible than those recorded in this book. When the bloodbath was over, only pitiful remnants were left alive. The world hardly knew of their sufferings, nor is it fully aware today of their disappearance. Except for the few survivors, a whole people, unique in its life-style, language, culture and art, was wiped off the face of the earth. There are no memorials to their dead or commem- orations of their tragedy [in 1981]. The death of the Gypsy nation was more than physical; it was total oblivion" "You know hes a racist hateful piece of shit, look down the line of posts, " "Its like people like you are so detached from humanity or just common decency. You can't grasp that when a name so shrouded in villainous evil perversion cruelty and disgrace is placed upon anything, it debauches it. This whole country is lessened by having a holiday for a genocidal criminal, that were he to rise today should be hung instantly with piano wire, like the the Nazis of the 20th century. You have not a leg to stand on!"
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  176. Julia Winkler. ". . . Heydrich, who had been entrusted with the ‘final solution of the Jewish question’ on 31st July 1941, shortly after the German invasion of the USSR, also included the Romanies in his ‘final solution’. . . The senior SS officer and Chief of Police for the East, Dr. Landgraf, in Riga, informed Rosenberg’s Reich Commissioner for the East, Lohse, of the inclusion of the Romanies in the ‘final solution.’ Thereupon, Lohse gave the order, on 24th December 1941, that the Romanies “should be given the same treatment as the Jews” (Müller-Hill, 1988:58-59)." "You know hes a racist hateful piece of shit, look down the line of posts, " "Its like people like you are so detached from humanity or just common decency. You can't grasp that when a name so shrouded in villainous evil perversion cruelty and disgrace is placed upon anything, it debauches it. This whole country is lessened by having a holiday for a genocidal criminal, that were he to rise today should be hung instantly with piano wire, like the the Nazis of the 20th century. You have not a leg to stand on!"
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  177. Julia Winkler. ". . . the count of half a million Sinti and Roma murdered between 1939 and 1945 is too low to be tenable; for example in the Soviet Union many of the Romani dead were listed under non-specific labels such as Liquidierungsübrigen [remainder to be liquidated], ‘hangers-on’ and ‘partisans’. . .The final number of the dead Sinti and Roma may never be determined. We do not know precisely how many were brought into the concentration camps; not every concentration camp produced statistical material; moreover, Sinti and Roma are often listed under the heading of “remainder to be liquidated,” and do not appear in the statistics for Romanies (König, 1989:87-89)." "You know hes a racist hateful piece of shit, look down the line of posts, " "Its like people like you are so detached from humanity or just common decency. You can't grasp that when a name so shrouded in villainous evil perversion cruelty and disgrace is placed upon anything, it debauches it. This whole country is lessened by having a holiday for a genocidal criminal, that were he to rise today should be hung instantly with piano wire, like the the Nazis of the 20th century. You have not a leg to stand on!"
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  178. Julia Winkler. I recall that man and not two centuries have passed since I saw him, he went neither by horse nor by carriage: purely on foot he outstripped distances, and carried no sword or armour, only nets on his shoulder, axe or hammer or spade, never fighting the rest of his species: his exploits were with water and earth, with wheat so that it turned into bread, with giant trees to render them wood, with walls to open up doors, with sand to construct the walls, and with ocean for it to bear. I knew him and he is still not cancelled in me. The carriages fell to pieces, war destroyed doors and walls, the city was a handful of ashes, all the clothes turned to dust, and he remains to me, he survives in the sand, when everything before seemed imperishable but him. In the going and coming of families at times he was my father or kinsman or perhaps it was scarcely him or not the one who did not return to his house because water or earth swallowed him up or a tree or an engine killed him, or he was the saddened carpenter who went behind the coffin, without tears, someone in the end who had no name, except those that metal or timber have, and on whom others gazed from on high without seeing the ant for the anthill and so that when his feet did not stir, because the poor exhausted one had died, they never saw what they had not seen: already there were other feet where he'd been. The other feet were still his, and the other hands, the man remained: when it seemed that now he was done for he was the same once more, there he was digging again at the earth, cutting cloth, minus a shirt, there he was and was not, like before, he had gone down and was once more, and since he never owned graveyards, or tombs, nor was his name carved on the stone he sweated to quarry, no one knew he had come and no one knew when he died, so that only when the poor man could he returned to life once more, without it being noted. He was the man, no doubt of it, without heritage, without cattle, without a flag, and he was not distinguished from others, the others who were him, from the heights he was grey like the subsoil, tanned like the leather, he was yellow reaping the wheat, he was black down in the mine, he was the colour of stone on the fortress, in the fishing boat the colour of tuna, and the colour of horses in the meadow: how could anyone distinguish him if he was inseparable, elemental, earth, coal or sea vested in man? Where he lived whatever a man touched grew: the hostile stones, quarried by his hands, took on order and one by one formed the right clarity of a building, he made bread with his hands, moved the engines, the distances peopled themselves with towns, other men grew, bees arrived, and by man's creating and breeding spring walked the market squares between bakeries and doves. The maker of loaves was forgotten, he who quarried and journeyed, beating down and opening furrows, transporting sand, when everything existed he no longer existed, he gave his existence, that's all. He went elsewhere to labour, and at last he was dead, rolling like a stone in the river: death carried him downstream. I, who knew him, saw him descend till he was no longer except what he left: roads he could scarcely know, houses he never ever would live in. I turn to see him, and I await him I see him in his grave and resurrected. I distinguish him among all who are his equals and it seems to me it cannot be, that like this we go nowhere, that to survive like this holds no glory. I believe that this man must be enthroned, rightly shod and crowned. I believe that those who made such things must be the masters of all these things. And that those who made bread should eat! And those in the mines must have light! Enough now of grey men enslaved! Enough of the pale 'missing ones'! Not another man passes except as a king. Not a single woman without her crown. Golden gauntlets for every hand. Fruits of the sun for all the unknowns! I knew that man and when I could, when he still had eyes in his head, when he still had a voice in his mouth I searched for him among tombs, and I said grasping his arm that was not yet dust: 'All will be gone, you will live on, You ignite life. You made what is yours.' So let no one trouble themselves when I seem to be alone and am not alone, I am with no one and speak for them all: Some listen to me, without knowing, but those I sing, those who do know go on being born, and will fill up the Earth.
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