Comments by "Sim Ko" (@simko8665) on "Gaza attack: What is the Palestinian Islamic Jihad?" video.
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@utilitymonster8267 Arafat was an untreatable person. He always said what the Audience wanted to hear and he made an impression of a very modest peace seeker. To the PA's he said the opposite.
In public speeches, Arafat compared the Oslo Accords to the Hudaybiye Agreement. I hope you know what it means. several times, in Johannesburg in 1994, in Cairo in 1995, as well as in a speech in Stockholm in 1996, he told the ambassadors of Arab countries, "We are planning to oust the State of Israel and establish a pure Palestinian state. We will make life miserable for the Jews in the warfare of in psychological and overpopulation. Jews will not want to live among us Arabs."
This was Arafat, the two faced person. The one who rubbed the the public coffers of the Palestinians and now his wife becomes every year 22 Million $ of it every year.
There were also two Israeli offers to give back all the land to the PA's including dividing Jerusalem. This was offered by the Prime Ministers Ehud Barak and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Both suggestions were rejected by Abu Mazen. Why, because it didn't fit the Pa's agenda to get back all the lands of Israel and push the Jews into the sea.
As for the 60%. Yes, almost all this land was a desert. Now Israel is a flourishing Paradise and one of the richest country in the world according to its size.
I can understand you frustration. You'll have to get used to it. Israel is here to stay and if the PA's will insist of getting back the lands of Israel, there will not be a PA state. Pity.
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@liammulcahy9506 Since this a long one I didn't succeed to do it in one time. Here is the first part of it:
1. This will be a long one, please have patient. 2. You suggested me to do a research before writing and I did. That's why it took me so long. 3. Please bear with me for my basic and poor English.
The Jews had no option but to fight back * although they were much less armed than their enemy * Arabs left their houses * most of them willingly and the Minority were expelled by the IDF *
. The Arabs had a rag taggled Army of 15,000 who did not even have proper guns and ran out of ammunition. _______________________________________________¬¬¬¬¬____________________
The period of time that we are talking about has to be divided into two: The first one from the UN resolution to divide Palestine into two states taken on 29.11.1947 till 14.5.1948, the day Israel declared its independence. The second part is from that day till the victory of Israel. The date of 29.11.1947 was actually the day of the beginning of the Arabs war against Israel. It started the day after by killing Jews who were on their way home. This kind of war was called the war on the roads. The Arabs cut off the ways to isolated villages and Kibbutzim. They also blocked the road to Jerusalem putting it under siege. For these tasks there were enough local Arabs with old guns. For instance, the way to Jerusalem passed through mountains and it was very easy for the Arabs to control the way from above, especially at the place called Bab-El-Wad, the gate of the valley, where the road becomes very narrow. Many vehicles which tried to pass were attacked by those lousy Arabs and their lousy guns, but it was enough to stop most of the vehicles and to kill many of those who tried to arrive in Jerusalem with precious products, and drinking water. Many convoys like these which were on the way to bring supplies to the isolated villages were attacked and caused lives of many Jewish boys and girls. At that time only few thousand Israelis secured the roads and tried to break the sieges. Most of them were members of the resistance groups, but they were not soldiers and certainly not well armed and not well trained. They hardly had one rifle for two persons and almost no ammunition. The British didn't allow them doing it and arrested many of them who attempt to train themselves. In mixed cities of Arabs and Jews like Jerusalem, Tel Aviv-Jaffa, Haifa and more, Jews had to take shelter of daily shootings at them by the Arabs. This situation ended a half of a year later when one ship managed to break the British blockade and managed to bring rifles, some machine guns and ammunition. Right after that the Jews stopped react as sitting Ducks and went for a large offensive. Arab villages and towns were attacked by the Jews and Jewish villages and towns were attacked by the Arabs, but the actions of both sides were limited because of the British forces which still were stationed there. Many volunteers also came to aid the Arabs from Lebanon and Syria but fortunately the Jews managed to hold on and even to fend them back to where they arrived. That's for the "Jews had no option but to fight back" and for "The Jews were well armed and well-trained army of 40,000 soldiers",
Now to the second part from 15.5.1948:
The PA's and the Arabs countries called the Jews not to declare independence and threatened them to invade the new state, and to shove all the Jews into the sea. It was a real threat since Israel at that time had not enough soldiers to face them. They had no Tanks, no Airplanes, no war ships, no Canons, not enough machine guns and ammunition. Right after the independence declaration, on 14.5.1948, one the day after, six Arab armies invaded Israel from three sides. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and forces from Iraq and from Saudi Arabia. Egypt for instance was well equipped with tanks, canons, armored vehicles, Airlanes, war ships and they had lot of ammunition. That Army alone counted 20,000 soldiers. In the whole the Arab armies counted 65,000 soldiers and also 10,000 locals. On their way they attacked villages and Kibbutzim which had to fight for themselves, men alongside women without reinforcements because of the lack of soldiers who had to fight in three fronts to stop the invaders. Many local Arabs waited in a distance to loot the Jews properties and killed who stayed alive. After Conscription to the army started and enlisting new soldiers, the Israeli army counted 40,000 trained and untrained soldiers. Only two months later Israel got some help and even got four Avia fighters. At the first mission Israel lost 25% of its fighters. While the war went on, Israel managed to fend them off and the war ended in March 1949 with many casualties. At that time the population of Israel counted about 600,000 citizens, many of them poor and miserable people who managed to survive the Holocaust. Israel had about 6,000 soldiers and citizens who were killed by the Arabs. It's like the USA suffered 3,000,000 casualties. That's for:" The Jews had no option but to fight back
And that's for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948:
During the war many Arabs left their homes and became refugees. I can pity them for listening to their leaders who encourage them to leave saying that they will be back home soon after the Jews will be shoved into the sea. It wasn't said by locale Leaders, it was said by the Arab Higher Committee. Many of them were expelled by the Israeli soldiers but still they were the minority. The Dir Yassin Massacre was the catalysator for the Majority and by their leaders. Still Hundreds of thousands remain in their homes. In Haifa most of the Arab population listen to the Arab higher committee and left without seeing even one Israeli soldiers. It took place from 12.1947 till Israel decelerate independence. The Jewish leaders and the British commander of Haifa tried to convince them not to stay but only 3,000 out of 70,000 did it. Tens of thousands of their descendants live in Haifa now. In Jaffa, after a long and bitter fights between the Jews of Tel Aviv and the Arabs of Jaffa, when the Jews started to approach Jaffa, many of them took ships and fled to the Gaza Strip and to Lebanon. Israel told them not to leave but they didn't listen to them. When Israeli forces arrived to the Port of Jaffa, there were still 4,000 Arabs who were waiting for ships. The Israeli Commander suggested them to return home, promising them that nothing will happen to them and they did. Those were the ancestors of the now days Arabs in Jaffa. At 1948 there were 1,200,000 Arab citizens. 700,000 became refugees, the 500,000 who remained became citizens of Israel with equal rights. ( BTW. Do you know why the PA's refugees became a status of refugees? Do you know how refugees get their status? Well, according to the international definition, a refugee entitles this title if he was a citizen of the country for ages and for centuries. For the Palestinians refugees, and only for them, they created another definition. They have to be citizens only for two years. Two years, not ages. Most of the Palestinians arrived there from the end of the 19's Century till the 40's of the 20th Century. No wonder there were so many refugees by the time Israel became a state and the numbers are growing every year. There is no limitation of time and they are going to benefit it for ages. Never in history there has been no such thing. Is it normal?)
This was for "Arabs left their houses * most of them willingly and the Minority were expelled by the IDF".
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@liammulcahy9506 This is part two:
Now what about the Jewish refugees of the Arab countries? When the UN decided to divide the land between Jews and Arabs, all the Jews in all Arab states started to suffer of riots because of it. There were about 900,000 Jews in those countries and many of them were murdered. What about their rights? They didn't take part of the war in Israel but was blamed just because they were Jews. They were forced to leave the Arab countries in the Levant and of the Northern Africa countries. They were allowed to take only few personal belongings and leave behind their houses, shops, their businesses and their money. When they arrived in Israel, they weren't put into Refugee Camps as the Arab countries did to their PA's brothers who live there till today, and after a while they got housings and jobs.
As for the Massacres: Quoting Anti Zionists Journalists like Beni Morris, Ilan Pape and the extreme left-wing newspaper are not the most reliable sources since they had an interest to blacken the face of Israel. Still, yes, there were cases of local Massacres. You mentioned three of them. I know about Dir Yassin as everyone does, I know also about the Safsaf Village. (The name of that village preserves the Jewish ancient name of a Jewish village which existed there more than 2,000 years ago as other hundred ancient Jewish villages in the Galilee and Judea). Two years ago, a Lebanese citizen wrote to me about it saying that his Grandparents lived there and about the Massacre. I found out that it was true as you quoted it here taken from Wikipedia. As for Al Dawiyima it was new to me. It made me read about it also in Wikipedia and I saw that there were some inquiring comities who looked to it. An Israeli one, one of the UN, and also by the Arab legion, all of them right after it and not after 60 years from which you took the quotations. All three of them came to the conclusions that probably a Massacre took place there but not so many casualties as the Authors said after 60 years. The Dir Yassin was the well known Massacre of all. There are few versions for what really happened there and everyone can read about it and decide what went on there. For Safsaf, I found nothing except what is written in Wikipedia and why they did it. I want to be clear, there is no accuse for it but still….
You counted the poor Arabs who were Massacred and women who were raped by Israelis. What about Jews who also went through it by the Arabs there at that time and by larger numbers? Why didn't you do it as well? Because you wanted to show how cruel and brutal Jews were/are or you just didn't know about it? Well, let's begin. This is a partial list:
During the war on the roads, many convoys did their way to the isolated villages and Kibbutzim. Some manage to make it and some had to fight their way through. There were many who surrender and they were massacred to the last person. I managed to find that there were about 160. One famous Convoy tried to reach a village near Hebron called Kfar Etzion. At dawn they were revealed by the Arabs not far away of their destiny. Thousands of local Arabs surrounded them and killed them. They abuse the corpses so brutally that it was impossible to know who is who. Some of them were found with their Phonic in their mouth. They were 35. Another famous Convoy went out Jerusalem on April 1948 toward the Hospital in Mount Scopus which were under siege. There was an agreement that every two weeks the staff there will be replaces by other ones and it worked properly for some months. There were 78 Doctors and sisters. On the way they had to cross an Arab village and were attacked by the locals although they were announced a day before that they are going to relief off duty the staff of that Hospital. All of them were Massacred. I mention the name Kfar Etzion. Only one day before declaring Israel independence, a mob of hundreds of local Arabs attacked that isolated village and were aided by the Jordanian Legion. Many of the defenders were killed, man and also women. About 50 of them found shelter in a Cellar in the village, men and some women. They were Massacred there and some women were raped before killing them. I have friends from that village who remained with no fathers and one friend with no parents. The children were evacuated to Jerusalem two weeks before it. One researcher suggested that the Massacre in Al Dawiyima was a revenge for it since they also took part in that Massacre of the Jews in Kfar Etzion. They said they identified belongings and furniture which belonged to the citizens of that village. One researcher suggested that it was a revenge for the Massacre of 67 Jews, women who were raped and babies whose heads were smashed into the walls in Hebron in 1929. Arab neighbors who lived peacefully with the Jews there took also part in it. You can find it under the title The Hebron Massacre of 1929.
"Do some proper research before writing such dribble. Educating oneself is mandatory to making an intelligent comment!!" It goes for you also.
If you really want to know where, when and why the so-called Palestinians arrived in this region, I suggest you to read a reliable history book of this land for the last 200 years starting at 1831. I also suggest you to read the book of Mark Twain which was written while his visit to the ME in 1867, especially the part of "Palestine".
Well, this will do for now. I got tired. Be well.
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