Youtube comments of Sim Ko (@simko8665).
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Here is a short story of my late mother. She was sent to Stutthof in September 1944 for hard labor.
After that she was sent to a sub camp of Stutthof near Konigsberg. On January 1945, about 7,000 person' most of them women were marched for two days toward the Baltic sea. The weather then was terrible, -20, snow and winds, wearing almost nothing, no food and no rest. One who fell was shot dead on spot.
Only 3,000 of them managed to reach the shores of the Baltic sea out of 7,000. When they arrived there the guards started to rush them into the frozen sea, shooting at them and shoving them into the sea. My mother pretended to be dead and they shoved her also to the sea.
I have a list of 35 of who managed to survive that Death March. The date was the night of 31.1.1945.
More details you can find by looking for the of Palmnicken Massacre (today, Yantarny), near Kaliningrad of today. You'll find there the all untold story of that Death March and that massacre.
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To put an end to it, here are the true facts.
Muslims live there for about 1,300 years. Most of them arrived from Arabia and were called Arabs. They arrived in the M.E and also to a region there called Palestina or Syria- Palestina, a name which the Romans gave to that region in about 135 AD after the last Jewish revolt against them. Jews also lived there for about 3,300 years. Some time they were the majority and sometime the minority but they lived there consecutively all those years.
All that time there was no state names Palestina, and no Arabs called Palestinians till about the 30th of the 20th Century.
At the 19th century this region, which was under Ottoman rule, underwent a transformation. Some European countries and also America gained a foothold there and opened diplomatic consulates there. Many Pilgrims and tourists started to arrive there and needed Accommodations. Many Churches started to be built and also monasteries and hospitals and other public buildings. All this needed skilled workers that the locals could not provide.
This demand for skilled workers caused a certain migration from other Muslim countries who joined the local Arabs and after a while their families joined them as well making their numbers to start increasing.
After those small waves of workers and builders making the Economy there better, many others started to follow as migrant workers. The main waves started to arrive in the last 150 – 100 years making them what is now known as "Palestinians".
It's very easy to trace where they arrived from by their surenames, like Massarwa and El-Fayumh from Egypt, Bagdadi from Iraq, Halabi from Syria and many more.
Just as the same time also waves of Jews started to arrive from Eastern Europe and from Yemen for their own reasons. They bought lands from the local Arab landlords and began to establish farms and small villages based on agriculture.
For lack of agricultural knowledge, the Jews had to employ local Arabs which caused more Arab migrants to arrive and work in Jewish farms and the others Assimilated among the local Arab population..
After the British got the Mandat over Palestine, and after the Jews succeeded with agriculture and with light Industry, more Jews also continued to arrive and the land began to flourish and so the Economics. The local Arabs didn't like it and started riots against the Jews killing many of them.
The Arabs also started a revolt against the British blaming them for letting Jews in.
The leader of this revolt was Hag Amin El-Husseini who was the Mufti - their spiritual leader. He was the first to call this region Palestine as a state, and the local Arabs, Palestinians, in order to united them under a nationality of their own.
This is the short history of the so-called Palestinians who claim living there for thousands of years.
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@alexmorozevich
Raphael Zimmerman
1 day ago
First, I'd like to address your claim of in the places you mentioned: " the killing of thousands of innocents" Remember the number thousands.
Yes, during war time there are also innocent civilians. Now for the numbers: In Rafah- 0, they still live there today. Al-Dawayima - 30, according the numbers of the English commander of the Arab Legion. Eilabun - 14, as a revenge of killing two Israeli soldiers, cutting their heads off and going out with them in a procession in the village. Ghaziyeh - 16, While attacking terrorists in the village by airstrikes. Hula - never heard, where was it located? Kafr Qasim - 47. that's the one I admit as an unnecessarily killing of innocent Arab Israelis in 1956. The soldiers who participated were put to trial.
Sabra and Chatila - Israel was not involved in that one, killing of Muslims in Lebanon by their Christians neighbor. Khan Yunis - Can you tell me when? , Qana airstrikes- 28. After heavy bombings toward Israel by the Hezbullah terrorist organization which did it from inside Lebanese villages causing Israeli casualties, the Idf attacked them and one house was demolished not deliberately as it happens in all wars. 11 more were killed in another village then. Qibya - 60. After attacking a village in Israel killing a mother and her two small children, and after killing Israeli innocent citizens. Safsaf-60, while the Independence war.
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@alexmorozevich Here is my first part of my list. I also decided to summarize to the last 100 years. Although this in will be written in two parts. This one deals only with killing and massacring of Jews in Palestina - Israel from 1920 till 1939.
I'm sorting it by years. In that way you can look for it in GOOGLE.
April - November 1920:
Metula, Degania, Menachemiyah, Bnei Yehudah, Tel Hai, Jerusalem, Givat Ada, Kefar Tavor, Yesud Hamahalah, Karkur.
1.5 - 6.5/1921:
Jaffa, Petah Tikvah, Haderah, Abu Kabir, Rehovot.
23.8 - 29.8/1929:
Jerusalem, Hebron, Safad, Haifa, Tel Aviv, Noza, Be'er Tuviah, Huldah, Ein -Zeitim.
1936 -1939:
Petah Tikvah, Peqiin, Ruchamah, Hebron,Kfar Hashiloah, Ein Zeitim, Kiriat Anavim, Gaza, Tirat Zvi, Tveriah.
Etc.,
Now go to Google to look for each place and start count the hundreds of Jewish innocent civilian casualties who were murdered by the poor Palestinians.
From November 1947 till now I have a larger list but with many smaller incidents which cost much more Jewish lives.
Shall I send it to you as well?
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Your question makes no sense. There is no Palestinian history. Only Ottoman, Mamluks, Crusaders, Arabs, Byzants, Roman, Greece, Israel and Judea, Babylon, Canaanites, and cave men. What are you of all these?
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@Khaled4life I have an intention by asking you when did the war start. Well, it started one day after the UN decision to split PA between the Arabs and and the Jews November 1947). About six months before Israel was founded (May 1948) and the invasion of the Arab Armies to Israel one day after.
The Arabs all over Israel start attacking Israeli vehicle causing many victims and cutting off the roads to several Kibbutzim in the Galilee and in central Israel. The most significant act was cutting off the ways to Jerusalem. Trying to take off the blockades, especially the road to Jerusalem continue to cost many lives of Jews. There was no other way but to take military measures against the Arab Attackers. While that operation to release Jerusalem, there were Israeli attacks against the Arabs armed forces who were staying in the Arab villages which surrounded to Jerusalem.
The most famous village was Dir Yassin. The so called massacre there which took place in April 1948, about one month before Israel declared its freedom. That event effected other Arab villages and started the expulsions.
Arabs leaders at the same time called the Arabs to leave and come back after the Arab Armies will finish with the Jews if they'll dare to declare independence. That the other reason for the expulsion of Arab from mainly mixed towns like Haifa and nearby ones like Jaffa.
Unfortunately the Israeli Army won the war the Arab refugees are staying in other Arab countries till today. That's is my answer to your comment.
Now the issue of the Jewish refugees.
In 1927 a group of Jews from Jerusalem bought a large piece of land between Jerusalem and Hebron. The sellers were ten Arabs who owned it and they were payed with good money and the Jews got the papers of that transaction. Four Jewish settlements start building their houses there and to plough the fields there. All four of them became flourishing villages.
When the Arabs start blocking the ways twenty year later as I told you, the way to these four also was blocked.
On the night of 16.1.1948 a group of 35 Israeli soldiers tried to sneak their way in order to reach these four villages which were surrounded by Arab Villages who kept shooting at them and they start to run out of emanation. Unfortunately they were located and all the 35 were massacred by about 2,000 Arabs. After the British soldiers brought their bodies to Jerusalem, it was impossible to recognize even one of them. They've been severely abused some of them with their Penis in their mouth.
One day before the declaration of the independence of Israel, these four villages were attacked and destroyed causing death to the defenders, men and women (the children were evacuated a short time before that). That piece of land returned to Israel after the six days war and now there are many villages and small town. It's called in Hebrew Gush Etzion and you can read about it in Wikipedia. There were other cases like this one during the 1948 war.
Now to the Jewish refugees from Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran and some more.
While the war of 1948 many riots against the Jews in these countries occurred and many Jews died then. They were expulsed rom these countries and was permitted to take with them only their clothes and a small amount of money. They had left there all their properties, like houses, shops businesses and had to fled before been killed.
Israel absorbed these refugees and now they are a large part of the Jews in Israel taking place in all areas of life.
What did the Arab countries do with they own refugees? They let them rotten refugees camps and to be used as bargaining chips till these very days.
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Here is a short description of what Mark Twain saw there in 1868.
"It seems to me that of all the countries with a depressing landscape, the Land of
Israel holds the crown. The hills are bald, faded in color, and their shape is far from pleasing to the eye. The valleys are ugly deserts decorated at their edges with scanty vegetation whose faces seem to express grief and despair... Every line is rough, harsh and every note is sharp, without perspective - distance does not create magic here. This is a dreary, hopeless, heartbroken land."
"We could not stop to rest even after riding for two or three hours from our camp, even though the stream flowed beside us. Therefore we continued on our way for another hour. Although we saw water, but in the whole expanse of wilderness around us there was not even an iota of shade, and we were badly burned in the burning sun. 'Like the shadow of a heavy rock In a weary land' - there is no more beautiful phrase in the whole Bible, and there is no doubt that of all the places we have wandered, there is not one capable of giving such a touching meaning to the phrase as this arid, bare, bald land."
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@cathalb2007 I do not understand. There were 1,250,000 Palestinians there in 1948 and only 600,000 Jews, many of them miserable people from the Holocaust.
The day after the declaration of independence five Arab Armies invaded there from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and many local forces. They were very well equip with Tanks, many Canons, Aircrafts and thousands of well trained soldiers. The Israeli soldiers had one rifle for two man, no Aircrafts, no Tanks, no Canons and they managed to win.
How did they do it, can you explain it to me? If I were you, I'd be ashamed to make the claim of taking Arab homes.
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What Genocide? Killing 6,000, 000 Jews by Germany is Genocide, killing 1,500,000 Armenians by Turkey is Genocide, killing 3,000,000 people in Bengal, this is Genocide, 2,000,000 in Cambodia, 500,000 in Darfour, and in many other places around the world this is Genocide. 23,000 out of 5,500,000 Palestinians is not Genocide. This is war. BTW. 9,000 of that number are Hamas Terrorists. Most of the rest are people who wouldn't go South as Israel asked them to do and they won't listed. Hundreds of them were killed by Hammas Missles which failed to be launched and fell on their houses.
She is talking very nice with pathos, but not the truth. Look for it for yourself and do quot othes who qout others.
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@toasted_donut2308 A nice argue. Still:
1. Why did they wake up and demanded a free state from Israel? Why not from Jordan for 19 years?
2. There is a decision of the UN from 29.11.1947 which says that that land has to be divided between Israel and the Palestinians. Israel excepted it but not the PA's who started right away with riots against the Jews in Israel. In 1948 also five Arab Armies invaded Israel from all directions. Sorry that Israel won that war.
3. In 1967 four Arab countries gathered on the borders of Israel and Israel had to fend them off. Jordanian king believed the Egyptian leader who told him that his forces are on the way to Tel Aviv. The king of Jordan believed him and started to bomb Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and also my home town from the West bank in order to get a share of Israel after the victory. Unfortunately he lost and left the West bank.
This was in short.
The PA's have their Autonomy and their own leaders and Israel do not interfere their business. The trouble is that they want a free country for themselves but they have no means to run it since they are divided among themselves . They have no Economy, no Minerals, no jobs, just nothing. Who is going to feed them? look at Lebanon in the last years and you'll see what will become of them.
Look at the Gaza Strip. They are in the same situation for 74 years. No Economy , no Minerals, no jobs. Who is feeding them all these years? The unerw"a of the UN, which means, you.
behind
It's not a wonder. They can see Israel flourishing in any field, one of the best Economies in the world, Agriculture, Science, Hi Tech and much more and they want it for themselves. Why not?
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@jasonking442 Just for your poor knowledge. Israel killed till now about 23,000 peole in Gaza which are 1% of the population there, in three months. about 9,000 of them were Terrorists. Not very few. Most of the others were citizen who didn't move south and were killed . The number of who arrived south reached the number of about 1,000,000. Also not few.
Would you call it Genocide?
My advise to you is to check the real facts before puting a comment.
BTW. if you are British then here is an interesting fact. At the night of 13.2.1945, British airplans bombed the twon of Dresden, Germany after the Germans were at their knees and kill 25,000 German civilians. Elderly, children, babies and their families. It was done in one night, not in three months. That's the reason why Israel is working slowly, not to hurt innocents.
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@kenkaneki9138 Here are some comments for the new history here.
1. Israel has constantly stated that the territories in its hands are used as a bargaining chip. An Arab country that signs a peace agreement will receive back the territories held by Israel.
The "historian" here writes that after the war Sinai was returned to the Egyptians and therefore Israel did not win the war. Real history has a decisive fact that this is not the case. Sinai was returned to Egypt in 1982, eight years, yes eight years, after the end of the war.
All this after the Egyptian president offered Israel to sign a peace agreement, and only then, according to Israel's policy, did he receive Sinai back.
YES, that's true that Moshe Dayan said it but fortunately, Israel had a very talented General by the name of Ariel Sharon who managed to find a loophole between two Egyptian armies and cross the Suez Canal and transfer the war to Egypt. If you call it an Egyptian victory, then let it be.
Here are two another lies of our educated "historian". In the years 2000 when the Israeli PM was Ehud Barak and in 2008 when Ehud Olmert was a PM, the Palestinians were offered back all the West Bank for a peace treaty, they refused to sign it twice. By their leaders Yasser Arafat and by Abu Masen. Why? Because it was against their agenda: "Palestine from the river to the sea clean of Jews".
Did you say that the Palestinians accepted Israel as a legitimate state? How come no one have heard about it. When, where and by whom it was said?
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@dutchpatriot17 Please look for "Jews inventions" on Google and you will find so many of them. I just did it and you can find Jews in every field: Chemistry, Physics, Optics, Medicine, Economics, Biotechnology, Computers Science, Computer Hardware and software, Agriculture, Water, Energy. This is only a short list. You can find Israeli Technology all over the world contributing to people's welfare. After you read this, please get back to me and tell me if you changed your mind.
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@Antonio_DG I see that you know nothing about how Jews started to arrive in Israel.
It's like you say that 1,000 large ships arrived one morning to the shores of Israel with 1,000,000 Jews on board, with 5,000 Tanks, 1,000 canons and 500 Jets and took the land by force from the poor natives.
The story is very very different and if you want to learn seriously the fact, then I suggest to read the history and demography of this land for the last 200 years. I do not say 2,000 years, only 200. After that you'll see how wrong you are.
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@raedalmaoued5104 Yes, I believe that he wrote about what he saw. If you don't, you can read other's experiences while their visits in this "Orchard" like Henry Baker Tristram from Scotland, Lyntch from GB. Authors like Gustav Plover, William Thackery, and many more. Everyone of them described his disappointment of the poor condition of this neglected region with no trees, no shades, no water.
Maybe after establishments of the first Jewish villages there about 140 years ago, the condition of this land began to improve including the Arab villages after studying modern ways of Agriculture.
Anyway, if it was an Orchard as you say, now it's Paradise as I say.
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@planitdesigns6192 Is the murders and slauthers which took place on October 7, correct?
The Indians, Aborigines and others tried to fight the invaders but were defeated. The Arabs are trying to do the same for almost 140 years but fortunately with no success. What Israel is doing is only self defence by trying to defeat the Hamas Terrorists who during the last 17 years launched about 30,000 Missiles on Israeli civilians, killing and wounding many of them including small babies in their cradles.
Genocide - can you define Genocide and how does it related to Israel?
You have to know that more than half of them were Hamas terrorists, many of the Arab were killed by Hamas Missles which faild to be launched and fell on their houses. Many of the Arabs there didn't follow the suggestion of Israel to go south in order to be saved.
Genocide is what had neen done to 1,500,000 Armenians, 6,000,000 Jews, 2,000,000 in Bangladesh and in many other places. Some thousands killed is not Genocide.
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@Amélie-r7r A nice list, it's just a shame that it has no historical and factual basis. The Philistines who came from the islands of the Aegean Sea thousands of years ago and settled in what is now called the Gaza Strip and the surrounding area, disappeared already in the days of King David about 1,900 years ago.
There were never people called Palestinians in this area unless they were transparent and no one saw them until the 20th century. No historian or pilgrim or traveler saw such creatures, nor mentioned them in their writings. If there were people with that name they would be mentioned by name. Herodotus and other historians wrote only about the Philistines I mentioned. The Romans were the first to call this region Palestina in order to obliterate the rebellious Judah in them. The Romans also called this region Syria-Palestine or Syria Prima and Syria Secunda. Now you can ask Syria to give them back all their territories and call it Palestina, why not?
No one claimed that this land was empty. There were Arabs, Jewish Christians, Druze and more. But this land was not inhabited. You can read the book of Mark Twain and other travelers describing a desolate land, without water, without shade, without trees and bare mountains. They rode for many hours until they met a man.
During the Ottoman times, this region was a deserted and neglected corner in the Ottoman Empire. Even Holy Jerusalem was like that. Only poor beggars and sick children in every corner. At some point the Ottomans started calling it Palestine following the Romans. Before that, the Crusaders called it the Holy Land. When the British occupied the area, they did not change the name of it and issued passports and used the name Palestine in their documents. There was even a Palestinian soccer team, but all the players were exclusively Jewish. This team that represented this illumination also had a flag with Palestine written on top of a Star of David.
There were never people called Palestinians in this area unless they were transparent and no one saw them until the 20th century. No historian or pilgrim or traveler saw such creatures, nor mentioned them in their writings. If there were people with that name they would be mentioned by name. Herodotus and other historians wrote only about the Philistines I mentioned.
The Romans were the first to call this region Palestine in order to obliterate the rebellious Judah in them. The Romans also called this region Syria-Palestine or Syria Prima and Syria Secunda. Now you can ask Syria to give them back all their territories and to it Palestina, why not?
No one claimed that this land was empty. There were Arabs, Jewish Christians, Druze and more. But this land was not inhabited. You can read the book of Mark Twain and other travelers describing a desolate land, without water, without shade, without trees and bare mountains. They rode for many hours until they met a human being.
You claimed that there was a Palestinian state. How come that no one have heard about it. Who were their Prime Ministers/Presidents, can you show me a coin of this state, an Archeological finding? How they fit in?
When the British occupied the area, they did not change the name of it and issued passports and used the name Palestine in their documents. There was even a Palestinian soccer team, but all the players were exclusively Jewish. This team that represented this illumination also had a flag with Palestine written on top of a Star of David.
You also claim that Israel conquered the "state" of Palestine in 1948. Why do you think this happened? Half a year earlier, the United Nations decided to divide this land between Israel and the Arabs. The Israelis agreed, while the Arabs opposed it and started a war against Israel. They also called on the surrounding countries to send an army to destroy Israel. Fortunately for Israel, this did not happen, and it was able to repel the invaders.
You claim that Israel killed thousands of Palestinians. Well, after Deir Yassin the local Arabs did not wait for the Jews to arrive but simply left everything behind and fled. They even did not see a single Israeli soldier. Another reason for their departure was their leaders who encourage them to hurry and leave until the Arabs destroyed the Jews and pushed them to the sea, and then they could return to their homes and to the homes of the Jews. Those who listened to them are today refugees, and those who did not, are today citizens with equal rights in Israel and enjoy a good life there. •
The Arabs in this place have no advantage and rights over the Jews there. Most of the Arabs who today are called "Palestinians" arrived there in the late 19th and early 20th centuries as migrant workers and settled there. You can identify them even today where they arrived from by their surnames.
At exactly this time, waves of Jews from Eastern European countries and from Yemen also began to immigrate. The Jews bought lands from the Arab owners for good money and established villages and farms.
So the lesson learned from this is that whoever starts a war should take into account that he may also lose as in this case, and he has no choice but to make accusations only against himself and not blame others, as you do.
Let me suggest you to read the history of that region of the last 200 years starting 1831. After reading it you'll get wiser.
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@evermoreart He was talking about 27,000 citizens who were killed during the last four months. He "forgot" to mention that almost 10,000 of them were Hamas and Jihad Terrorists. Sorry, but this is not Genocide. Many hundreds more were killed by Hamas Rockets and Missles which faild to be launched toward Israel and fell on their houses and kill them. Hundreds Missiles out of 15,000 which were aimed to kill Israeli citizens during these months, Elderly, women, children and small babies.
Just look what the british did at the end of WW2. They bombed Dresden and other towns in Germany and caused many more dead citizens, elderly, women, children and smalll babies. This was done only during one single night, not in four months. Did you ever heard about it? Did hear anybody calling it Genocide?
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You should begin it yourself. You'll have to give up your Cellphone, your Computer, Disk on key, Pre Digital Press, Copackson, Waze,
Mobil eye, Cardiologic Stent, RSA coding, Remi Kub, drifting device, Baby sense, Feldenkrais system, Cherry tomatoes, Drones, Taki, Wall fire, Move it, and many other developments to make your life easier and healthier. What would you like to give up first??
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@myinstgiscarbenuim1693 On the night of 12-13.2.1945, the town of Dresden, Germany was bombed by the British. More then 25,000 citizens, children, women, elderly were killed there. In only one night. Nobody have called it Genocide, no body blamed Britain for it and eas draged to the ahague International court. But for less then that number, in four months, Israel is blamed for Genocide.
About 9,000 of that number were Hamas Terrorists, then we are talking about 14,000 who were killed as I said in my former comment.
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Yeahweat thebuffet In what way Israel keep Arab states undeveloped? What countries? When did Israel bombed Palestinians children? Can you tell me when? now it's going to be a long one but short history facts. Israel has the same right to live in this area as much as the so called Palestinians and much more. That is the reason the U.N. decided to divide it between Israel and Palestine. Jews lived in this area for more than 3,200 years. Much time before the Islam went out the Arabian deserts and took it by sward. Jews lived in Jerusalem, Hebron (Halil), Tiberias, Safed, Gaza, Jaffa, Haifah, Acre and in many more villages in the Galilee. When the first newcomers Jews arrived in Israel in about 140 years ago there were not many citizens in that no water no shade land. When they established their new farms they needed skilled workers for it since the settlers were not used to be farmers and the local Arabs did the work . After a while, after establishing more farms, there were not enough Arabs for this kind of work. At that time many new Arab workers arrived from other countries around. Now they claim it as it was their for aged, even living there less than the Jews. Israel didn't take lands of the Palestinians. They gave it to Israel. When one start war he is risking himself loosing it to the other side. Unfortunately that exactly what had happen with Palestinians.
Israel made its land flourish like Paradise. No wander the Palestinians wants it for themselves. I'm sure that if they got it, it will become a desert again as it was till the 19th Century when the Jews massive Zionism movement establishments manage to do. Sorry, you have to get yourself a good history book and study this issue.
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@Emitts_Official You are talkine nonssens. When did I claim that Egypt conquered Europe?
Yes, Israel was supported by the US but fought alone against Egypt, but the Egyptians were supported by Russia whos expert took part in the war gainst Israel. That's made the difference.
You also forgot that Israel fought on two main fronts, Egypt and Syria.
As for losses: Israel lost about 2,700 soldiers and had about 7,200 Injurded and 294 catured soldiers. Egypt lost about 15,000 soldiers, about 25,000 injured, and 8,273 captured soldiers.
And the main fact is, that Israel took back all Sinai for six more years till the president of Egypt begged for a peace threaty and got it back for signing a peace agreement with Israel which lusts till today.
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@toasted_donut2308 You brought up some interesting points. It's pity that almost no one is true.
I'll mark my comments in red letters. I's going to be a long one, have patience. To spread lies is very easy and it takes few words to do it, but to deny it, it takes much longer time.
1) they wanted to be with Jordan, now they dont want to be with Israel. So what, Its their choice.
Who told you that they wanted to be with Jordan? The Hashemite Kingdom the whole part of East Bank and a smaller part in the West Bank.
All of that was given to Jordan by the British as a token of gratitude after getting help from them in WW1 (see Laurence of Arabia). The local citizens which are called Palestinians, has nothing to do with it. They lived there for a long time and suddenly they had to accept foreign rule expelled from Saudi Arabia. In the 50's they raised up against Jordan and they were brutally suppressed by them after killing many of the PA's. The locals hated the King. When Israel took it over, the Israeli soldiers were received with candies and rice. How do I know it? Well, I was in Jerusalem at that time.
After about 20 years, the new generation who did know nothing of the local history started to act against Israel.
If you'll ask privately a Pa where he rather would like to live, he will tell you in Israel and he knows why. If you'll ask him the same question in public, the answer will be the opposite. He also knows why.
Yes, there are difficulties because of the Terrorists but Israel has to defend itself. If you believe that after they will have their own state there it will be peace, you are naïve. The Terrorists wants all the area from the Jordan river to the sea clean of Jews.
2) The UN should not dictate what 1 country does with it's land. If the UN decided tomorrow that Israel no longer exists, will you pack your bags and leave.
The UN is not a high court which in an orderly state must abide by its decisions.
When the UN decided to split this region between Israel and the Arabs, Israel excepted it but not the Arabs who started war against Israel so do not tell me about the UN decisions.
3) Palestine has no control over the west-bank to build their economy. Israel has settlements across the region that own all the arable land, the IDF runs security their and operates many checkpoints. The PA controls only a small portion of the West-bank and even they are just Israeli puppets.
Reading this only shows me how you know nothing about the West Bank. There is almost no Economy since they have no sources for it. Almost no Minerals, no means to produce reasonable Electricity and the unemployment reaches to high levels since many of them do not work. They have little trade, and some primitive agriculture and tiny industry. Israel does not control Arab lands and has no so many settlements to control all the region. The IDF has check points only for its security. From 1967 till 1987 there was no even one of it since there were no Terrorists actions.
Thae Arabs live all over the region and it's not a small one.
If a PA's state will be declared, they citizens will not have even basic products to use even not bread. They will have to ask for help from the rich Arab states in order to support them. Declaring a free state in the West Bank will be a disaster for the Arab citizens there. Freedom is not all, you need to have sources to give sevices to the people there and they do not have it.
4) Palestinians have to pay taxes to both the PA and Israel. High taxes means no one wants to open businesses or invest.
I do not know what taxes the Pa's have to pay in the West Bank or in Gaza. In Israel Pa workers (there are about 160,000) are paying taxes exactly as an Israeli worker.
On the other hand, their rights are also the same as Israelis. It means Health care, pension, annually vacation, paying for days of illness and other benefits.
5) The Gaza strip is sanctioned so it is impossible to build an economy.
Their Economy worked very well till the Hamas took over. Because of their Terrorism action against Israel, Israel to defend itself and that the way she chooses.
On the other side, they have their Egyptian brothers who can assist them. Right on the other side of the fence. Why not telling them to apply to them for help. Why does Israel has to supply them with goods. Every day 1,500 trucks loaded with Israel products are entering the strip. Israel also supplies them with electricity, not talking about the UN which supply them also for 74 years. The only refugees in the world to get it.
At the very least, let Palestine have the West-bank, remove your soldiers and checkpoints, and stop taking taxes. Then Palestine actually has a chance. Since the UN is the ultimate authority like they were in 1947, listen to them when they say stop making settlements.
At the very least. It seems that you are new in that situation. If you were aware about peace talks in the last 30 years, you wouldn't dare say it.
The PA's were offered to get back 97% of the West Bank and 3% more from Israeli lands. Not once, but twice. Yes, twice.
Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres were rewarded a Nobel Prize for peace for willing to hand over the lands to the PA's, and Yaser Arafat for is willing to get the lands. All he had to do is to sign the peace treaty but he got cold feet and retreated.
The same story happened with Abu Mahzen few years after that. The same offer but he also got cold feet. That time the Nobel Prize committee was not on a hurry to give prizes just for a willing.
Do you know why they finally rejected the two Israeli offers? Very simple why.
Just for your poor knowledge. The Pa's agenda is not to make peace with Israel. Their agenda was and still is to get all the lands from the Jordan river to the sea, clean of Jews. All you have to do is to listen to what they say in private and compare it to what they say in public.
Your above suggestions were already suggested to the PA's for a peace treaty but till now with no success. Now you can suggest all of it to the Pa's.
BTW. Yaser Arafat never returned the Nobel Prize that he received.
I CAN ONLY SUGGEST TO YOU TO READ THE HISTORY OF THAT REGION FOR THE LAST 200 YEARS STARTING WITH 1831. After that you'll know from where most of the PA's arrived to that region, when and why, how the Jews did and many unknown other facts. Hearing fake stories and fake facts from people who also had heard it from other people do not make it true. Do What I just suggested to you and get wiser.
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@Sparrow Dear sir, here is a short-long history of the 19th Century of this region. Muslim squatters started to arrive in this region after 1831. At this year the Egyptian Army took over this region for about ten years. At that period of time they encouraged Egyptian people to settle in the occupied territories. Till these days you can find Arab families with the name of Al-Massri, Egyptian.
At 1840 the Ottoman empire asked European countries to join them in order to get control again in this region. Russia, Great Britain, France and Austria joined them and the Ottomans became the rulers again.
The ottomans felt committed to those who helped them and let these countries to open there representations and many Pilgrims of those countries began to arrive in the holy land.
They needed accommodations, Churches and also start building Monasteries. All this needed skill workers which this region could not provide.
That was the opening of big waves of job seekers who arrived from all the Levant.
After that the families also joined their husbands/fathers, and the numbers went up and up from year to year. From 250,000 at 1830 to 450,000 in 1890.
When the first Jews arrived from Europe in 1878 they also needed skilled workers and many more arrived during the Jewish emigration till 1920. At that year the Arab population arrived to 600,000, many of then were squatters.
Now the Pa's claim all of them to be the original population of this region for thousands of years.
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What keep the Palestinians in Gaza? Many of them already left and the same in the West Bank.
They can live and go abroad and have good life there.
Do you know what's the UN difinition for Apartheid? Not what you think. Killing Terrorists is not Genocide.
The 500,000 Syrians who were killed by their own president, this is Genocide. Why nobody call it that name, why don't you Arabs demonstrate against Asad?
Killing 1,500,000 Armenians by Turkey, this is Genocide. Why don't you demonstrated against Turkey? Killing 6,000,000 Jews, this is Genocide. 2,000,000 in Ruanda, no body demonsrated against.Only when it comes to Israel, everyone wakes up.
Why? Only Antisemitism.
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Of course Palestine was civilized in 1920. The Jews who arrived there 40 years ago made it like this.
Still you have to read what Mark Twain wrote about it only 10 years before the Jews started to arrive there and then you'll will see how "civilized" it was at his visit.
I'm attaching here few line of him (1868):
"It seems to me that of all the countries with a depressing landscape, the Land of Israel holds the crown. The hills are bald, faded in color, and their shape is far from pleasing to the eye. The valleys are ugly deserts decorated at their edges with scanty vegetation whose faces seem to express grief and despair... Every line is rough, harsh and every note is sharp, without perspective - distance does not create magic here. This is a dreary, hopeless, heartbroken land."
"We could not stop to rest even after riding for two or three hours from our camp, even though the stream flowed beside us. Therefore we continued on our way for another hour. Although we saw water, but in the whole expanse of wilderness around us there was not even an iota of shade, and we were badly burned in the burning sun. 'Like the shadow of a heavy rock In a weary land' - there is no more beautiful phrase in the whole Bible, and there is no doubt that of all the places we have wandered, there is not one capable of giving such a touching meaning to the phrase as this arid, bare, bald land".
That's how your nice country looked like till the arrivle of the Jews. To day it's Paradise.
If you only excepted the offer of two states, it was also a pradise for you. But since the Arabs know only to destroy and to kill, you do not have to blame the Israelis for it.
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@risinggael1685 Making comments without checking all the facts is not clever.
Here are the facts: How would your country react if for 17 years your neighbor had fired tens of thousands of rockets and missiles toward you, killing civilians, elderly, women children and boys, and demolishing many houses?
All this time, Israel responded by firing at the sources of fire of the Hamas terrorists who were hiding among the local population and Israel avoided hitting them so as not to hit the innocents.
After the slaughter on October 7, Israel decided that enough is enough and that this terrorist organization must be eliminated once and for all.
The war against them began in northern Gaza and Israel earlier informed the residents to move south so they would not be harmed.
Hundreds of thousands of them moved south and were not harmed, others who preferred to stay in their homes did so at their own risk and can only blame themselves.
Until now, Hamas has fired about 15,000 missiles and rockets at Israel, causing heavy losses to Israel.
And now to the charge of genocide.
You can read the definition for this in the UN discussions. What is happening in Gaza certainly does not meet this definition.
Until now, if we believe the Hamas terrorists who always exaggerate, about 27,000 people have been killed, and this also includes about 10,000 terrorists and hundreds more who were killed there as a result of Hamas rockets falling on their houses because they were failed to be launched because of technical failures. Many more of them were killed because they stayed at their homes and did not evacuate as Israel suggested them.
So how many civilians were killed by your count? Maybe 16,000 out of a population of 2,300,000 citizens. And this is what you call genocide?
You can compare these numbers to the approximately 24,000 civilians who were bombed and murdered in Dresden at the end of WW2 by Great Britain, and all this for just one night compared to the four months during which Israel operates in Gaza, this points to the caution with which Israel operates not to harm innocents, which costs it many victims.
How did you come to the insight that their return to the south would lead to genocide?
The Gaza Strip is not a concentration camp and Israelis are not Nazis. Israel could have done this a long time ago, but that is not their intention. The intention is to get rid of the Hamas terrorists while wanting not to harm innocents.
They won't stay there forever. After the restoration of the Gaza Strip, they will return to their place.
You can read on Wikipedia about the number of people who were actually murdered in the really genocides, which number many millions.
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@antipropo461 Sorry, but you are the ignorant. I can recommend you to read the history of this land for the last 200 years beginning with 1831. After reading it you'll get to know the real situation which brought the most of the so called "Balestinians" to this region, also the Zionists who payed good money for their lands, how Great Britain caused all the mess between the Arabs and the Jews, in what circumstances the Jewish state was created, how the Arab leaders caused the refugees problem, , why the Naqba was created by the Arabs themselves, why they did not agree to have back all the areas which were taken in 1967 war (twice) and many more.
After reading it, and if you'll have more objections, I willingly will answer to it.
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@truebeliever786 What reason do they have to do so?
As for your saying that Isreal cannot rely on the victory that happened more than fifty years ago and that the Palestinians and Lebanon have become stronger, you are wrong.
The ones who got stronger were the Palestinian terrorist organizations.
Lebanon did not get stronger at all, on the contrary, it got weaker. The one who has been controlling it for many years is Hezbollah, supported by Iran which finances and arms them. These terrorists sit in the Lebanese parliament and brought it to an economic disaster, so there is no talk of Lebanon's strengthening. The Lebanese army is nothing but a puppet unable to do anything against Hezbollah to return Lebanon back to its citizens, and certainly not against the State of Israel.
Your sayings about the current war are also wrong. This is not a war between countries. This is an Israeli operation whose goal is to eliminate Hamas, which is also supported by Iran, and also to free the kidnapped Israeli citizens.
Till today, Israel has killed more than 9,000 terrorists but there is still a lot of work to do because they are hiding in tunnels they dug for more than 600 km with Qatari funding instead of directing the funds to the welfare of the residents in Gaza.
This is why the tunnels are taking so long to clear and will take a long time.
In light of the above, you can understood that this is not a war like they were in the past.
To say that Israel has weakened is also a mistake. It is like saying that the United States' war against the terrorist organization Al Qaeda has weakened the United States.
Israel has one of the best Economics in the world, Israel is one of the best Technology state in the world, and one of the best Armies in the world. that's why Iran is afraid of Israel and send her dogs, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Hut's, to do her filthy job for her.
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The origin of Arab genetics, Arab culture, the Arabic language and the religion of Islam is in the Arabian Peninsula,
therefore the Arabs calling themself Palestinians are not indigenous to Palestine
by definition. Arabs indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula.
Latest ottoman census approximates less than 350,000 inhabitants in Palestine include Jewish and Christians, Druze and others.
Most of the so-called Palestinians arrived in this region in the second part of the 19th Century and the beginning of the 20th Century
alongside the Jews.
Tuafiq Bey al-Khorani, the Syrian governor of the Horan, Southern Syria, said in 1934 that "over 30,000 Syrians invaded Palestine in a few months.
Winston Churchill said on 5/22/1939 that Arab immigration during the Mandate period was so great that "their number increased beyond any rate by
which even the Jewry of the whole world could increase the number of Jews".
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, President of the USA, said on 17. 5. 1939 that "the immigration of the Arabs to Palestine since 1921 has largely exceeded
the immigration of the Jews in the entire recent period".
In any case this influx of Arabs is evident in the surnames of the Arab families that live today in the land.
In Arab culture the surname indicates your membership of a particular clan and its origin:
El-masri originates from Egypt (masr).
El Fayumi from Egypt
Masarwa also from Egypt
El-takhriti from takhrit in Iraq.
Halabi from Halab in Syria.
El-lubnani from Lebanon.
El-hijazi from the hijaz in Saudi Arabia.
El Kurdi from Kurdistan.
El Hurani from Huran in Syria.
Agbaria from Saudi Arabia – Yemen
El Maghrabi, Maghrabi from West North Africa
Ottoman from Turkey.
El Jozair from Algeria.
El Arg' from Morocco.
Abid from Sudan.
El Bushnaq from Bosnia.
El Shishani from Chechnya
El Indi from India
And there are more.
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@The-Man-Right-Chea When one has no knowledge of the history of that region , he should not show his ignorance in public.
Learn the history of that region in the last 200 years starting 1831, and you'll see what an Ignorant you are.
One small example for it. You are talking about white Jews, but you do not know that in 1947-50 arrived in Israel about 1,000,000 not white Jews. From Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Tunis, Lebanon, Yemen and some more.
Read a book and get wiser.
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I want to clarify here the matter of the occupation of the West Bank and also what
Brought Israel to rule there..
The state of Jordan joined Egypt and Syria in the 1967 war
and attacked Israel, Israel defended itself and succeeded in repelling the
the Jordanians and the Iraqi forces who joined them.
Israel liberated East Jerusalem including the Holy Temple Mount to the Jews.
Israel decided to hold the West Bank as a bargaining chip with Jordan so that it can be returned to them in exchange for a peace agreement.
After the war, the Arab countries gathered in Khartoum, Sudan, and decided on three No's.
No negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel and no peace with Israel.
In the meantime, the West Bank is left without a person in charge to take care of its current affairs
and means of subsistence, health, economy, education, sewage and many other day-to-day topics that are in need for immediate attention. The local residents were actually satisfied with the new government that allowed them to work in Israel and earn a living with dignity, which they lacked under the rule of Jordan. Israel established a mechanism to handle all these issues.
After there was no progress on the issue of peace with Jordan, pressures from the right began to begin
to settle throughout the West Bank in the historical places where the Jews used lived. The settlements kept growing until it stopped 15 years ago.
In the Oslo agreement in the 1990s, the West Bank was partially transferred to the exclusive rule of the Palestinians. The western part of the West Bank remains in Israel's hands to serve as a security buffer between the Arabs and the Jews in Israel.
After 20 years of rule there, a resistance movement arose from Palestinian youths who did not
get to know the Jordanian government and demand from Israel an independent state (what their ancestors didn't dare to ask from Jordan) while exercising it Terrorist acts claimed victims on both sides. This is the situation until now.
Although Jordan signed a peace agreement with Israel, but there is no change in the situation in the West Bank.
Over the years, the Palestinians have been offered peace proposals, including two proposals for repatriation all the areas but they rejected all of them and the last two as well. Why the peace proposals of Israel were rejected? Because the Palestinians want their own state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, and with no Jews there.
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@hananalbataineh6175 Nothing justify ethnical cleansing unless you declare war upon others and lose.
In our case the Arabs started war on the Jews in Palestine one day after the UN decision to divide that region between the Jews and the Arabs. Right after Israel declared independence, five Arab Armies invaded that region in order to destroy the poor Israeli Army. Unfortunately for them, they were defeated and had to withdraw.
Before the war there were 1,200,000 Arabs and 600,000 Jews. About 700,000 Arabs left. Most of them without seeing even one Israeli soldiers. The words Dir Yassin did most of the work. Still 500,000 Arabs remained believing the Jews that they will not be harmed. This is not cleansing. Cleansing means that no one had been left there.
Now let's talk about the cleansing of the Jews who lived in Arab countries. While 1948 till 1950, 900,000 Jews were forced to leave Arab countries, many of them after riots against them. From Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Tunis, Algeria and Yemen. This is called cleansing.
Yes, Palestine was populated as the rest of that area, which means a small population.
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You are almost right. The Jews started to use the Assyrian letters while being in exile in the 6th century B.C. and they do it till today, including their holy books and scripts. Before the 6th century they used the Phoenician letters. For myself I use these letters for crosswords and so does also my daughter. It's not really writing, it's more a kind of drawing and we like it.
I cannot show you an example since I have no such fonts but I do have the so called Assyrian's capital letter like א ב ג ד ה ו ז ח ט י (from right to left) and it says: Alef, Beit, Gimel, Dalet, Heh, Vav, Zain, Het, Tet, Yod. These letters are used for printed items like books, newspapers and official correspondence. There are parallel letters used for hand writing which I cannot show you because of the above reason.
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Absuluty there were always people in this land. From the beginning of history, but you mean the 19th Century.
Well, there were but not so many. Most of them were Muslims, fewer Christian and a Jewish minority who lived there for almost 4,000 Years beginning with Abraham.
I n the 19th Century most of the people there lived in small towns and in many small villages.
What you read the Europeans and Americans travlers at this time , you get the impression of a neglected and poor land. For instance, the impression of Mark Twain while his tour in 1868:
"It seems to me that of all the countries with a depressing landscape, the Land of Israel holds the crown. The hills are bald, faded in color, and their shape is far from pleasing to the eye. The valleys are ugly deserts decorated at their edges with scanty vegetation whose faces seem to express grief and despair... Every line is rough, harsh and every note is sharp, without perspective - distance does not create magic here. This is a dreary, hopeless, heartbroken land."
"We could not stop to rest even after riding for two or three hours from our camp, even though the stream flowed beside us. Therefore we continued on our way for another hour. Although we saw water, but in the whole expanse of wilderness around us there was not even an iota of shade, and we were badly burned in the burning sun. 'Like the shadow of a heavy rock In a weary land' - there is no more beautiful phrase in the whole Bible, and there is no doubt that of all the places we have wandered, there is not one capable of giving such a touching meaning to the phrase as this arid, bare, bald land."
Only ten years later the first Jews start to buy lands from the Arabs owners who lived abroad and started to build new villages.
At the end of the 19th Centuries waves of Jews started to arrive there fro Europe and from Yemen and followed the formers.
At this time also waves of Muslims start to arrive as migrant workers and settled there as well.
Most of these migrants are called now Palestinians who claim to live there for agaes telling everyone that the Jews have no right to live there also.
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@mohammadshahidhusaini2464 The first followers of Jesus were Jews that belived in him and remain good Jews. There was not Christiancy yet and Jesus himself was a good Jew. He was born a Jew, lived as a Jew and died as a Jew.
In that time there were several like him and they also ended on the Roman Cross. Jesus was lucky to have a man like Paul who worked hard for recognition of Jesus as God. When this new movement start to eccelate, the Jews didn't let them pray with them any more.They were separetad from the Jews and became the first Christians.
The original Jews never recognized Jesus as the Messaiah. The Jews are waiting till now for their real Messaiah.
Because of that, Jews all over the ages suffered for not believing in Jesus. Riots, Killing, Inquisition (?) and expelling from the places were they used to live. All in the name of Jesus.
One more thing: When Jesus will arrive (accordingly to the faith of the Christians), and will see what had been done to his brothers Jews during the ages, I think that he will turn back and slip himself under his Tumbstone. If he will dare to protest against it, then the Christians will crussify him again...
By the way, the Jews did not crussify him, the Italians did. No body is saying a word against them. Why??
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@Krishnahgg I want to clarify here the matter of the occupation of the West Bank and also what
Brought Israel to rule there.
The state of Jordan joined Egypt and Syria in the 1967 war and attacked Israel, Israel defended itself and succeeded in repelling the the Jordanians and the Iraqi forces who joined them.
Israel liberated East Jerusalem including the Holy Temple Mount of the Jews.
Israel decided to hold the West Bank as a bargaining chip with Jordan so that it can be returned to them in exchange for a peace agreement.
After the war, the Arab countries gathered in Khartoum, Sudan, and decided on three No's.
No negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel and no peace with Israel.
In the meantime, the West Bank was left without a person in charge to take care of its current affairs
and means of subsistence, health, economy, education, sewage and many other day-to-day topics that were in need for immediate attention. The local residents were actually satisfied with the new government that allowed them to work in Israel and earn a good living with dignity, which they lacked under the rule of Jordan. Israel established a mechanism to handle all these issues.
After there was no progress on the issue of peace with Jordan, pressures from the right began to begin
to settle throughout the West Bank in the historical places where the Jews used to live. The settlements kept growing until it stopped 15 years ago.
In the Oslo agreement in the 90's, the West Bank was partially transferred to the exclusive rule of the Palestinians. The western part of the West Bank remains in Israel's hands to serve as a security buffer between the Arabs and the Jews in Israel.
After 20 years of rule there, a resistance movement arose from Palestinian youths who did not get to know the Jordanian government and demand from Israel an independent state (what their ancestors didn't dare to ask from Jordan) while exercising it Terrorist acts claimed victims on both sides. This is the situation until now.
Although Jordan signed a peace agreement with Israel, but there is no change in the situation in the West Bank.
Over the years, the Palestinians have been offered peace proposals, including two proposals for repatriation all the areas but they rejected all of them and the last two as well. Why these peace proposals of Israel were rejected? Because the Palestinians want their own state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, and with no Jews there.
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@chikochikoku5900 I'll try to do it by small portions. please let me know if you got it.
My answer to No. 1- if Jews has the right on Palestine after Jews were wiped away by the romans.
Well, Yes, they do.
Generally, this is the way of history. Lands were taken by wars all over history. After the Romans there were Byzants, Arabs, Selejuks, Mamelukes, Crusaders, Mongols, Ottomans, British and now Israel.
All the above-mentioned conquerors had no connection to this land and no one remained there since. Only the Jews did during all the ages, till today.
This land was given to Israel by God. Even the Quran says it and you cannot deny it unless you do not believe in Muhammed and the Quran.
The Persian ruled in Judea after defeating Babylon and taking their lands include Israel. They were kind to the Jews by letting them return to Judea and re-built the Temple and Jerusalem.
There were three revolts against the Romans. The Main one was at 66 A.D. and Jerusalem and the Temple were ruined. At 161 year revolt, Bar Kokhba put the final nail in the Coffin of Jewish hopes for freedom.
Caesar Hadrian got tired of the Jews and decided to erase the name of Judea from the Google Map and called it Palestina. This name derived from the Plishtim who arrived from Crete in the ancient times till king David kicked them out in about 1000 B.C.
After that the Jews and the Jewish center with their leaders moved to the upper Galilee area and to Tiberias since Hadrian didn't allow them to return to Jerusalem.
You can find today many ruins of ancient big and gorgeous Synagogues in Judea, Galillee, The Golan Heights and even in Gaza. They were in use till the 7 Century when the Arab invaders arrived, and all of it were ruined by them.
Many Arab cities and villages names are still called today with their original Jewish names.
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@user-hm9tz1ps9k Why do you think I don't know about the Jews at that time? They lived there all the time till now days. In the 19th Century most of them lived in the four holy cities and some hundreds lived then in several other mixed villages in the Upper Galilee. But their number was not as high as the Muslims who lived there.
What is your source that many Jews opposed the establishment of the state?
For your poor knowledge, Orthodox Jews do not serve in the army for the reason they prefer to study all day only holy teachings since they belief that this study serve the state of Israel better than the military service.
Who do you think founded the first colonies even before Zionism if not the ultra-Orthodox? Some were from Jerusalem and some were from Eastern Europe who arrived there after riots against them.
"They lived in peace with their Muslim and Christian brothers". Are you insane?
Where did you get this false information? Already in the 80's of the 19th century there were already quarrels between them and in 1921, 1929, 1936, 1939, 1948 the conflicts between them already claimed many victims among the Jews.
The famous Historian Benny Morris wrote that "at best, Ilan Pepe is one of the most careless historians in the world, at worst, he is one of the least honest." In Morris' opinion, Pepe "sometimes omits salient evidence and ignores it", "sometimes claims that a source tells us the complete opposite of what he really says" and even "distorts evidence" . In relation to the book "History of Modern Palestine" Morris wrote that "most of the things Pepe tries to sell to his readers are complete fiction", and accused him of "deliberate distortion of history" and of showing "deep ignorance of the facts".
Not talking that Pepe is a BDS activist.
(Benny Morris, if you don't hear his name, specializes in historical writing on the Israeli-Arab conflict in general and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular.
Morris's work has won him praise on both sides of the spectrum of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict).
Why can't settlers take land that is not theirs?
How were most of the US'S states founded? Did the Indians give them their lands willingly? Did Mexico do that too?
The Jews, who had at least a historical right to this land, bought all the lands from the Arab landowners and settled on it. This caused the Arab opposition to it and as a result many hostilities were caused between them.
Israel has never implemented a plan to deport the Arabs. During Israel's war of independence, Arab leaders convinced their brothers to leave their homes for a while until the five Arab armies destroyed the Jews and then they could return to their homes and receive the Jewish property. Unfortunately, it didn't work for them and they lost. There were also isolated cases of the expulsion of the Arabs, but most of them did not see even a single Israeli soldier.
In the Six Day War, Israel defeated Egypt, Syria and Jordan, after they started a war against it.
As a result, the defeated Jordanians left the West Bank, which they had controlled for 19 years, and Israel received the lands that the Jordanians owned there. Hence the Jewish settlement was and still is legal. I have not heard of an international law that says that a country that attacked another country and lost, may get back the lands it lost and the side that won is the conqueror. The occupiers were their Jordanian brothers who did not give the residents of the West Bank their own state. But since then, they have been demanding it from Israel.
I want to make it clear to you that Israel has twice offered the Palestinians a peace treaty in which Israel will return to them all the territories that were taken from them in the Six Day War. in 2000 and in 2008 but they rejected it. twice
do you know why?
It seems that you know their slogan that says: "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free". What they don't add is the end of it that says: " clean of Jews".
Anti-Semitism has increased since the seventh of October because of the Arab students at universities in the US and Europe. They told their listeners about the Israeli "occupation" and the "injustice" towards them and they swallowed it as if it were the truth and did not bother to check the facts. The terrorists of Hamas and the rest were also presented as the righteous among the nations.
I am interested to know if you have your own suggestion to solve this problem.
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@utilitymonster8267 Arafat was an untreatable person. He always said what the Audience wanted to hear and he made an impression of a very modest peace seeker. To the PA's he said the opposite.
In public speeches, Arafat compared the Oslo Accords to the Hudaybiye Agreement. I hope you know what it means. several times, in Johannesburg in 1994, in Cairo in 1995, as well as in a speech in Stockholm in 1996, he told the ambassadors of Arab countries, "We are planning to oust the State of Israel and establish a pure Palestinian state. We will make life miserable for the Jews in the warfare of in psychological and overpopulation. Jews will not want to live among us Arabs."
This was Arafat, the two faced person. The one who rubbed the the public coffers of the Palestinians and now his wife becomes every year 22 Million $ of it every year.
There were also two Israeli offers to give back all the land to the PA's including dividing Jerusalem. This was offered by the Prime Ministers Ehud Barak and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Both suggestions were rejected by Abu Mazen. Why, because it didn't fit the Pa's agenda to get back all the lands of Israel and push the Jews into the sea.
As for the 60%. Yes, almost all this land was a desert. Now Israel is a flourishing Paradise and one of the richest country in the world according to its size.
I can understand you frustration. You'll have to get used to it. Israel is here to stay and if the PA's will insist of getting back the lands of Israel, there will not be a PA state. Pity.
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@liammulcahy9506 Since this a long one I didn't succeed to do it in one time. Here is the first part of it:
1. This will be a long one, please have patient. 2. You suggested me to do a research before writing and I did. That's why it took me so long. 3. Please bear with me for my basic and poor English.
The Jews had no option but to fight back * although they were much less armed than their enemy * Arabs left their houses * most of them willingly and the Minority were expelled by the IDF *
. The Arabs had a rag taggled Army of 15,000 who did not even have proper guns and ran out of ammunition. _______________________________________________¬¬¬¬¬____________________
The period of time that we are talking about has to be divided into two: The first one from the UN resolution to divide Palestine into two states taken on 29.11.1947 till 14.5.1948, the day Israel declared its independence. The second part is from that day till the victory of Israel. The date of 29.11.1947 was actually the day of the beginning of the Arabs war against Israel. It started the day after by killing Jews who were on their way home. This kind of war was called the war on the roads. The Arabs cut off the ways to isolated villages and Kibbutzim. They also blocked the road to Jerusalem putting it under siege. For these tasks there were enough local Arabs with old guns. For instance, the way to Jerusalem passed through mountains and it was very easy for the Arabs to control the way from above, especially at the place called Bab-El-Wad, the gate of the valley, where the road becomes very narrow. Many vehicles which tried to pass were attacked by those lousy Arabs and their lousy guns, but it was enough to stop most of the vehicles and to kill many of those who tried to arrive in Jerusalem with precious products, and drinking water. Many convoys like these which were on the way to bring supplies to the isolated villages were attacked and caused lives of many Jewish boys and girls. At that time only few thousand Israelis secured the roads and tried to break the sieges. Most of them were members of the resistance groups, but they were not soldiers and certainly not well armed and not well trained. They hardly had one rifle for two persons and almost no ammunition. The British didn't allow them doing it and arrested many of them who attempt to train themselves. In mixed cities of Arabs and Jews like Jerusalem, Tel Aviv-Jaffa, Haifa and more, Jews had to take shelter of daily shootings at them by the Arabs. This situation ended a half of a year later when one ship managed to break the British blockade and managed to bring rifles, some machine guns and ammunition. Right after that the Jews stopped react as sitting Ducks and went for a large offensive. Arab villages and towns were attacked by the Jews and Jewish villages and towns were attacked by the Arabs, but the actions of both sides were limited because of the British forces which still were stationed there. Many volunteers also came to aid the Arabs from Lebanon and Syria but fortunately the Jews managed to hold on and even to fend them back to where they arrived. That's for the "Jews had no option but to fight back" and for "The Jews were well armed and well-trained army of 40,000 soldiers",
Now to the second part from 15.5.1948:
The PA's and the Arabs countries called the Jews not to declare independence and threatened them to invade the new state, and to shove all the Jews into the sea. It was a real threat since Israel at that time had not enough soldiers to face them. They had no Tanks, no Airplanes, no war ships, no Canons, not enough machine guns and ammunition. Right after the independence declaration, on 14.5.1948, one the day after, six Arab armies invaded Israel from three sides. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and forces from Iraq and from Saudi Arabia. Egypt for instance was well equipped with tanks, canons, armored vehicles, Airlanes, war ships and they had lot of ammunition. That Army alone counted 20,000 soldiers. In the whole the Arab armies counted 65,000 soldiers and also 10,000 locals. On their way they attacked villages and Kibbutzim which had to fight for themselves, men alongside women without reinforcements because of the lack of soldiers who had to fight in three fronts to stop the invaders. Many local Arabs waited in a distance to loot the Jews properties and killed who stayed alive. After Conscription to the army started and enlisting new soldiers, the Israeli army counted 40,000 trained and untrained soldiers. Only two months later Israel got some help and even got four Avia fighters. At the first mission Israel lost 25% of its fighters. While the war went on, Israel managed to fend them off and the war ended in March 1949 with many casualties. At that time the population of Israel counted about 600,000 citizens, many of them poor and miserable people who managed to survive the Holocaust. Israel had about 6,000 soldiers and citizens who were killed by the Arabs. It's like the USA suffered 3,000,000 casualties. That's for:" The Jews had no option but to fight back
And that's for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948:
During the war many Arabs left their homes and became refugees. I can pity them for listening to their leaders who encourage them to leave saying that they will be back home soon after the Jews will be shoved into the sea. It wasn't said by locale Leaders, it was said by the Arab Higher Committee. Many of them were expelled by the Israeli soldiers but still they were the minority. The Dir Yassin Massacre was the catalysator for the Majority and by their leaders. Still Hundreds of thousands remain in their homes. In Haifa most of the Arab population listen to the Arab higher committee and left without seeing even one Israeli soldiers. It took place from 12.1947 till Israel decelerate independence. The Jewish leaders and the British commander of Haifa tried to convince them not to stay but only 3,000 out of 70,000 did it. Tens of thousands of their descendants live in Haifa now. In Jaffa, after a long and bitter fights between the Jews of Tel Aviv and the Arabs of Jaffa, when the Jews started to approach Jaffa, many of them took ships and fled to the Gaza Strip and to Lebanon. Israel told them not to leave but they didn't listen to them. When Israeli forces arrived to the Port of Jaffa, there were still 4,000 Arabs who were waiting for ships. The Israeli Commander suggested them to return home, promising them that nothing will happen to them and they did. Those were the ancestors of the now days Arabs in Jaffa. At 1948 there were 1,200,000 Arab citizens. 700,000 became refugees, the 500,000 who remained became citizens of Israel with equal rights. ( BTW. Do you know why the PA's refugees became a status of refugees? Do you know how refugees get their status? Well, according to the international definition, a refugee entitles this title if he was a citizen of the country for ages and for centuries. For the Palestinians refugees, and only for them, they created another definition. They have to be citizens only for two years. Two years, not ages. Most of the Palestinians arrived there from the end of the 19's Century till the 40's of the 20th Century. No wonder there were so many refugees by the time Israel became a state and the numbers are growing every year. There is no limitation of time and they are going to benefit it for ages. Never in history there has been no such thing. Is it normal?)
This was for "Arabs left their houses * most of them willingly and the Minority were expelled by the IDF".
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@liammulcahy9506 This is part two:
Now what about the Jewish refugees of the Arab countries? When the UN decided to divide the land between Jews and Arabs, all the Jews in all Arab states started to suffer of riots because of it. There were about 900,000 Jews in those countries and many of them were murdered. What about their rights? They didn't take part of the war in Israel but was blamed just because they were Jews. They were forced to leave the Arab countries in the Levant and of the Northern Africa countries. They were allowed to take only few personal belongings and leave behind their houses, shops, their businesses and their money. When they arrived in Israel, they weren't put into Refugee Camps as the Arab countries did to their PA's brothers who live there till today, and after a while they got housings and jobs.
As for the Massacres: Quoting Anti Zionists Journalists like Beni Morris, Ilan Pape and the extreme left-wing newspaper are not the most reliable sources since they had an interest to blacken the face of Israel. Still, yes, there were cases of local Massacres. You mentioned three of them. I know about Dir Yassin as everyone does, I know also about the Safsaf Village. (The name of that village preserves the Jewish ancient name of a Jewish village which existed there more than 2,000 years ago as other hundred ancient Jewish villages in the Galilee and Judea). Two years ago, a Lebanese citizen wrote to me about it saying that his Grandparents lived there and about the Massacre. I found out that it was true as you quoted it here taken from Wikipedia. As for Al Dawiyima it was new to me. It made me read about it also in Wikipedia and I saw that there were some inquiring comities who looked to it. An Israeli one, one of the UN, and also by the Arab legion, all of them right after it and not after 60 years from which you took the quotations. All three of them came to the conclusions that probably a Massacre took place there but not so many casualties as the Authors said after 60 years. The Dir Yassin was the well known Massacre of all. There are few versions for what really happened there and everyone can read about it and decide what went on there. For Safsaf, I found nothing except what is written in Wikipedia and why they did it. I want to be clear, there is no accuse for it but still….
You counted the poor Arabs who were Massacred and women who were raped by Israelis. What about Jews who also went through it by the Arabs there at that time and by larger numbers? Why didn't you do it as well? Because you wanted to show how cruel and brutal Jews were/are or you just didn't know about it? Well, let's begin. This is a partial list:
During the war on the roads, many convoys did their way to the isolated villages and Kibbutzim. Some manage to make it and some had to fight their way through. There were many who surrender and they were massacred to the last person. I managed to find that there were about 160. One famous Convoy tried to reach a village near Hebron called Kfar Etzion. At dawn they were revealed by the Arabs not far away of their destiny. Thousands of local Arabs surrounded them and killed them. They abuse the corpses so brutally that it was impossible to know who is who. Some of them were found with their Phonic in their mouth. They were 35. Another famous Convoy went out Jerusalem on April 1948 toward the Hospital in Mount Scopus which were under siege. There was an agreement that every two weeks the staff there will be replaces by other ones and it worked properly for some months. There were 78 Doctors and sisters. On the way they had to cross an Arab village and were attacked by the locals although they were announced a day before that they are going to relief off duty the staff of that Hospital. All of them were Massacred. I mention the name Kfar Etzion. Only one day before declaring Israel independence, a mob of hundreds of local Arabs attacked that isolated village and were aided by the Jordanian Legion. Many of the defenders were killed, man and also women. About 50 of them found shelter in a Cellar in the village, men and some women. They were Massacred there and some women were raped before killing them. I have friends from that village who remained with no fathers and one friend with no parents. The children were evacuated to Jerusalem two weeks before it. One researcher suggested that the Massacre in Al Dawiyima was a revenge for it since they also took part in that Massacre of the Jews in Kfar Etzion. They said they identified belongings and furniture which belonged to the citizens of that village. One researcher suggested that it was a revenge for the Massacre of 67 Jews, women who were raped and babies whose heads were smashed into the walls in Hebron in 1929. Arab neighbors who lived peacefully with the Jews there took also part in it. You can find it under the title The Hebron Massacre of 1929.
"Do some proper research before writing such dribble. Educating oneself is mandatory to making an intelligent comment!!" It goes for you also.
If you really want to know where, when and why the so-called Palestinians arrived in this region, I suggest you to read a reliable history book of this land for the last 200 years starting at 1831. I also suggest you to read the book of Mark Twain which was written while his visit to the ME in 1867, especially the part of "Palestine".
Well, this will do for now. I got tired. Be well.
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