Comments by "jim oberg" (@jimoberg3326) on "The Mysterious "Lost Cosmonaut" Recording | Random Thursday" video.

  1. Thank you!!
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  2. Tochno.
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  3. The Italian kids faked it all for fun, fame, and profit.
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  4. They picked those bands EXACTLY so thousands of hams had compatible gear.
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  5. More details, please... like when? This sounds plausible for the 1960's, please try to remember details.
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  6. Thanks for the interesting link. The flight was real. Lots of official reportage was propaganda-driven.
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  7. There are dim echoes of verified events in your comments but mostly they are imaginary. There were rumors about that in the 1960s. When checked out -- especially with access after the USSR collapsed -- ALL those stories were totally debunked. Nowadays many internet huckster sites have revived the fairy tales but conceal the research that disproved them -- spreading hoaxes aimed at gullible nincompoops. Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf Ppt http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonot.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  8.  @kenarnold9132  -- Did you read any of my links? Or look me up on Wikipedia?
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  9.  @kenarnold9132  -- Yeah, I just got back from watering the fruit trees. You know the technology terms and events, you think/write clearly, there are plenty of continuing mysteries with new internet resources if you can handle Russian, if you want to get into some real 'sleuthing Russian space shit' let me know. There's a group called 'fpspace' you might want to look into and drop in on.
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  10.  @kenarnold9132  -- Awesome, sounds like time for a whole new edition: http://www.jamesoberg.com/disasters.html
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  11.  @kenarnold9132  -- I started studying Russian soon after Sputnik, I get by pretty well [can handle мать and каламбуры adequately, but still use google-translate for formal exchanges. I scan Yandex.ru daily. I still get laughs when I describe how the космодром байконур was renamed in the post-Soviet era as the байкадром космодур.
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  12.  @kenarnold9132  Are you still full-time near Moscow? We've lived in rural Galveston County since the AF posted me to NASA in 1975, and I resigned my commission 4 years later to homestead.
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  13.  @kenarnold9132  -BTW th cursing cosmonaut was Komarov, during the flight, as system after system malfunctioned, I was told at one point over the Crimea station he shouted "Devil-machine, nothing I touch is functioning". A guy who claimed to have served with an NSA post in Turkey a year later [Winslow Peck was the name he used, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Fellwock] claimed that old-timers told him that later that day they brought his wife in to talk with him, but that must be mythical because she would have been in Moscow, not Yevpatoriya.
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  14.  @kenarnold9132  "a manual of russian to english translation " = I have the 25-page DLI [Monterey] dictionary of Russian curses which I avidly studied, mostly for defensive purposes.
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  15.  @steadfastcoward  -- In the early days the estimates of future overflight times were pretty rough, so the SWLs around the world often listened almost continuously.
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  16.  @MsKiTTy1138  -- Hundreds if not thousands of worldwide SWLs heard and taped those beeps, what's your problem?
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  17.  @PaquiPaqui73 == There were honest amateur sleuths in those days too, such as the 'Kettering Group'. Sven Grahn on his home page has some personal memoirs of working with them in the 1960s.
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  18.  @PaquiPaqui73 == There were honest amateur sleuths in those days too, such as the 'Kettering Group'. Sven Grahn on his home page has some personal memoirs of working with them in the 1960s.
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  19. Thanks for the Insights. This recording is still bogus, and dishonestly plays with the human compassion of its target audience. Shameful, IMHO.
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  20. The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were incorrect long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  21. There were LOTS of such stories in those days [mid-1960s]. Those were the first subjects of my initial Soviet space history investigations. NONE of the in-flight rumors checked out, but I did locate one cosmonaut secretly killed in a ground fire and another expelled and expunged for ideological reasons.. Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with... 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  22. Naw, =THEY= were the ones doing the pranking, followed by today's internet hucksters reviving the old fakes.
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  23.  @firestormlivingsolutions  -- Maybe someday the last brother will confess.
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  24.  @grdovwd1589  - Thoughtful response, let me ponder... THANKS.
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  25. It's even harder seeing so many gullible nincompoops falling for a half-century-old hoax.
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  26.  @phoebedraws852  -- of course you can. but you can't make up your own 'facts' and claim they're real because you want them to be, and then also be considered a rational adult.
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  27. This came to you in a dream, maybe?
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  28. I posted links a year ago presenting the evidence these recordings were hoaxed, and were debunked decades ago. Scan down this comment thread for my name.
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  29. Beginning with Vostok-2 they announced it openly.
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  30. Thanks for your service, and for sharing that incident. The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were incorrect long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  31. Bingo!
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  32. This secret dead woman cosmonaut story is incredibly dumb. 'She' was the sister of the Italian kids who were faking it. Why are you so pitifully gullible?
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  33. Don't look for historical fact in a fictional movie, please.
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  34. Spot on -- it was the kids' sister.
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  35.  @nigeldepledge3790  -- We can postulate it came from their sister's microphone in the next room.
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  36. Amen! Thank you.
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  37.  @unsane7188  -- It was a strange time trying to figure it all out. Komarov did plunge to his death, in 1967. We knew we couldn't trust ANY official voice, and most of the private voices were crackpot. In hindsight we didn't do too badly. These days it's the same problem, just different cast of characters. And a new generation of private space sleuths. I just wanted to make sure this head-swelling history-related tribute to my own role in the 'space sleuthing' had come to your attention. http://www.jamesoberg.com/space-sleuths-book.pdf
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  38. Heinlein did tell that story, there were pre-flight rumors, and then a trainee cosmonaut was killed in a capsule fire on the ground that was kept secret for decades. But no space accidents in 1961, not yet.
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  39. The brothers hoaxed it for fun, fame, fortune, and hot dates with Italian starlets. Nowadays cynical internet posters revive the hoax for similar reasons.
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  40. Still totally fictional. This particular scenario was based on a deliberate publicity-seeking hoax by some Italian kids: http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  41. Or more probably, you're just a careless victim of an old, old hoax?
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  42. "...in support of Ilyushin's claim". Uh, no, HE always denied those myths, with good reason. They were false.
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  43. the italian brothers and their dubious claims http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  44. The radio hoaxers' sister.
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  45. A hoax by the brothers for fame, fortune, and hot dates from Italian starlets. Suspected from the beginning, confirmed decades ago, resurrected in the youtube age by cynical exploiters of gullible nincompoops. Want the evidence that Joe Scott is hiding from you?
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  46.  @wsbill14224  == Interesting claim, how can somebody verify it?
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  47. Spot on.
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  48. You are correct -- it's not true.
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  49. Hoax debunked in the last century, get a clue.
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  50. Molodets, Viktor. Sovsem soglasen. There were rumors about that in the 1960s. When checked out -- especially with access after the USSR collapsed -- ALL those stories were totally debunked. Nowadays many internet huckster sites have revived the fairy tales but conceal the research that disproved them -- spreading hoaxes aimed at gullible nincompoops. Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf Ppt http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonot.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  51. I don't believe you. Real spaceflight historians recognized these stories as hoaxes by some Italian kids for fame, fortune, and hot dates with starlets.
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  52. Spot on -- the brothers' sister.
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  53. Or couldn't you just be a careless victim of an old, old hoax?
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  54. Amen!!
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  55. Did your brain die? It's scary how quickly so many kids these days can fall for such a clumsy hoax just because they saw it on the INTERNET.
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  56. The Italian kids were lying while counting on gullible nitwits to fall for it.
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  57.  @tylerdurden629  -- Fifty years ago the real 'rocket scientists' figured out the kids were scamming, with their sister's clumsy Russian good enough to fool journalists. Today's internet hoaxers are relying on an entirely new and far more easily scammed target audience like 'John Smith'.. Here's why nobody over the mental age of 12 believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  58. Also possible [more likely] the whole story was a hoax.
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  59. Hoax debunked in the last century, get a clue.
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  60. 'She' was the sister of the Italian kids who were faking it. Why are you so pitifully gullible?
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  61.  @MikeCaiazzo1  -- Any questions? The internet lies to you day and night because you let them get away with it.
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  62.  @MikeCaiazzo1  - Preponderance of evidence. In hindsight the technical claims of the Italian kids were physically impossible [read the links in my reports]. Post Soviet collapse, original records and photos/16-mm-cine and diaries have become accessible by Western investigators. You're gonna have to face the fact you let yourself get suckered -- it takes a mature human being to acknowledge such an embarrassing lapse. Show us what you got.
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  63. You do realize it was a publicity-seeking hoax by the Italian kids, don't you? Want evidence?
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  64. Hoax by the Italian kids.
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  65. Gagarin was the first human in space. The other stories were confused rumors and outright hoaxes. Please catch up.
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  66. Yeah, that fairy tale was just as [in]credible as their other hoaxes.
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  67. Excellent analysis. Its a proven hoax aimed at gullible simpletons, sorry!
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  68. Man, stay away from that samogen vodka.
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  69. Only true thing here is you have been childishly gullible.
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  70.  @kenarnold9132  "Permanent resident of Russia" -- So you've just had breakfast? I'm getting ready for bed.
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  71. Seems like you've been duped by internet hoaxers who are contemptuous of your judgment, please get a grip.
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  72. You chose to be a victim of a clumsy hoax. Laika was smarter.
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  73. OK, who left the door open so a grown-up could get into the room???
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  74. 'She' was the Italian kids' sister, and helped her brothers fake it.
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  75. I saw his account, there were lots of rumors like that in those days. It took years to track them all down, they turned out to be misinterpretations plus few hoaxes. Want to see the full report on them?
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  76. Hoax.
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  77. The Ilyushin story was a baseless rumor that became a media hoax aimed at gullible nitwits. Please catch up.
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  78. Yep, those were the stories at the time. It turned out they were all misinterpretations or outright media hoaxes.
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  79. Here's some reports I've done on this puzzle: the Italian brothers and their dubious claims http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf  and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  80. There's no longer ANY question among historians and investigative journalist. The Italian kids faked it, and modern internet hucksters revive the fakes for a new generation of credulous halfwits. Live with it.
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  81. Face it -- the audio was a hoax.
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  82. When cosmonaut-trainee Bondarenko was killed in a training capsule fire, even his gravestone was a lie. Story here: http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf
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  83. The Italian kids faked it for fame, fortune, and hot dates with starlets. Some cosmonauts dies in training, in secret. None died on secret space flights. None. This has been confirmed by post-Soviet Western access to all records, diaries, and veterans. Want the details?
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  84. Komarov's death was revealed within hours.
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  85.  @i_luv_hecklefish == The idea that Komarov took the flight knowing it was doomed, to save the life of his friend Gagarin, the alternate pilot, is patently preposterous. The mission involved docking with a second ship, and transfer of two men from it into Komarov’s ship, to return to Earth with him. If he knew his ship would crash, he would have condemned his two in-flight additions to die with him. Not credible at all.
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  86. Campfire ghost stories to terrify the tenderfeet. Grow up.
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  87.  @dudebroski9460  -- There were rumors about secret fatalities in the 1960s. When checked out -- especially with access after the USSR collapsed -- ALL those stories were totally debunked [the Bondarenko fire immediately gave rise to misinterpretations it was on a secret launch]. Nowadays many internet huckster sites have revived the fairy tales but conceal the research that disproved them -- spreading hoaxes aimed at gullible nincompoops. Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  88.  @dudebroski9460 -- Thank again for sharing your experiences and insights so well. The public needs to have access to more personal accounts like yours, reliable and clear. Sadly, most of what the internet is spreading is not just nonsense, but often deliberate fraud, and it seems to really have infected the minds of an awful lot of careless people. Since my lifetime vocation and avocation has been spaceflight operations, I'm particularly sensitive to the reality-abuse that I encounter on that subject. Don't be a stranger! www.jamesoberg.com
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  89. You do realize it was a publicity-seeking hoax by the Italian kids, don't you? Want evidence?
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  90. Russian papers WHEN? I think you dreamed it.
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  91.  @tevx9670  -- fail
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  92. I posted links a year ago presenting the evidence these recordings were hoaxed, and were debunked decades ago. Scan down this comment thread for my name.
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  93. The Italian kids were faking, it was their own sister mumbling in Russian, you're right.
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  94. "The Russians were known to have both sent lots of people that died that they covered up " -- lots of people suspected that, but it turned out there weren't any. The two flights were cosmonauts were killed were quickly announced.
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  95. Sensible skepticism -- and it turned out to be an out-and-out fake recording.
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  96. I think you are foolish to be so easily duped by internet strangers. Want to see the evidence these are fake?
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  97.  @Akabeche  == It's been a lifelong hobby, I called out that story as bogus in my first book in 1981,
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  98. It's possible you fell for an old hoax.
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  99. Your anti-hoax shield isn't so great.
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  100. Gagarin flight was announced DURING the mission. These tapes were exposed as a hoax fifty years ago. Want the evidence?
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  101. You've been scammed.
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  102.  @grdovwd1589  -- Human nature has taught us that people who are scammed by hoaxers often are the last defenders of the hoax, in order to avoid coming to grips with their own original imprudent gullibility.
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  103.  @chrys8048  == Комментарий о произношении был верным.
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  104. The 'Russian female' was the radio kids' sister, it was a hoax, all historians now agree, please catch up.
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  105. They tried to hide a lot, but it came out. THIS story originated as a hoax by the Italian kids.
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  106.  @phoebedraws852  -- I figured your HHP handle indicated a whimsical nature that the semantics of the silly term might be appealing to. You don't have to imagine what people call ME on these comment threads [grin].
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  107.  @phoebedraws852  == Guys, this could b the start of a beautiful friendship. Check out www.jamesoberg.com for weird stuff I've gotten into.
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  108. … good idea, leave THIS channel to the credulous nincompoops who swallow these kinds of hoaxes.
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  109. "A comment by the Russians was made that they to had lost a female cosmonaut before. After that was said people were questioning who this could of been and when it occurred. Now I am not saying that tape is real but in 1986 the Russians admitted to losing a female cosmonaut in space. " == Sure would be nice to see any proof such a comment was made. How about I offer a $100 bounty to the first person who posts a verifiable link or print citation?
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  110. "it's a legit retelling of a very old tale... Why the hostility?" == Maybe because the stories he promotes were rumors at the dawn of the Space Age but were thoroughly debunked by EVERY spaceflight historian who investigated them in subsequent years, as further insights into Soviet space activities advanced. To misleadingly present them today as still-potentially-authentic claims is incompetent or dishonest. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  111. I posted links a year ago presenting the evidence these recordings were hoaxed, and were debunked decades ago. Scan down this comment thread for my name.
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  112. They DID erase failed candidates -- but never actual space travelers.
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  113. Don't be so gullible. Real research [not internet googling] was effective in debunking all these stories decades ago. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  114. The 'Russian female' was the radio kids' sister, it was a hoax, all historians now agree, please catch up.
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  115. -- Thanks for the account of the very common Soviet-era rumor. Turns out to be unreal. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more : http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  116. These 'secret dead cosmonaut' stories are old hoaxes, long-ago disproved.
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  117. The stories are bogus.
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  118. You've given a lot of thought to this topic, and the subject is worth it. It was the first significant 'Soviet space mystery' that I sleuthed out as a youngster: http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html Following the collapse of the USR, access to personnel, documents, and gravesites verified that all these early rumors were spurious. This particular recording turned out to be a clumsy publicity-seeking hoax. See the italian brothers and their dubious claims http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf There's plenty more old and new space history mysteries still awaiting dogged investigation Please keep at it.
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  119. Bingo. It was the Italian radio kids' sister, they were all into space hoaxes in the 1960s, as it turned out.
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  120. Happily, it was only a publicity-seeking stunt, quickly exposed and debunked. Then cynically revived by shameless internet hucksters to sucker a new generation of gullible victims.
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  121. Spasibo!
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  122. Bingo!
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  123. Yes, we do. The story is fake.
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  124. Please read the reports which expose the recordings as hoaxes.
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  125. You do realize it was a publicity-seeking hoax by the Italian kids, don't you?
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  126. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  127. Scary how easy kids today can be duped by internet resurrection of long-debunked hoaxes like the Italian brothers.
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  128. Nope, nobody else. The brothers hoaxed it for fun, fame, fortune, and hot dates with Italian starlets. Nowadays cynical internet posters revive the hoax for similar reasons.
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  129. They did, these were hoaxes, here's the evidence: Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence.
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  130. It's scary how quickly so many kids these days can fall for such a clumsy hoax just because they saw it on the INTERNET.
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  131. It seemed so at the time, but not for long. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence.
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  132. Where's the evidence it's anything more than a hoax?
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  133. The Italian kids were faking, it was their own sister mumbling in Russian, you're right.
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  134. Thanks for the shout-out, here are some links: the Italian brothers and their dubious claims http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf  and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  135. May not have been real at all.
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  136. Thoughtful comments, thanks. Real research [not internet googling] was effective in debunking all these stories decades ago. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  137. People who make up these kinds of stories of personal loss for undeserved sympathy are pretty pathetic in my book.
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  138. "his voice was captured in much the same way as this one" - Yep, those Italian brothers and their Russian-speaking sister kept turning out new hoaxes for years.
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  139. It was thought possible in the early days, but it's been thoroughly debunked for half a century, please catch up and avoid modern hoaxers. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  140. Spot on. Very perceptive. The suspicion falls on the kids' sister. All their other clams of receptions turned out to be bogus, too.
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  141. "it must be left to imagination." -- Don't be so fatalistic. Real research [not internet googling] was effective in debunking all these stories decades ago. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  142. That was Komarov, whose flight was announced. THESE stories are bogus from the get-go.
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  143. Because it wasn't. Scary how easy kids today can be duped by internet resurrection of long-debunked hoaxes.
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  144. "On the other hand, we do have the final words of cosmonaut Vladimir Komarov, who died when his faulty capsule re-entered. " == That was a long-standing rumor based on a guy who served at an NSA [not CIA] listening post in Turkey, 'Winslow Peck'. It was marginally plausible until very recently. Recent new Moscow-source verified documents have proven that the ‘Komarov self-sacrifice’ story is bogus, invented by a British author a few years ago to sell books. Komarov did not expect to die, and still go – it’s a made-up myth. Here’ the proof: https://www.amazon.com/Soyuz-1-Death-Vladimir-Komarov-ebook/dp/B08777Y32S/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=asif+siddiqi&qid=1594740942&sr=8-4 I’ve waited for more than half a century to read this report, and often despaired that, as memories and records rotted away, the secrets would be lost to history while the misleading myths and misrepresentations thrived across the internet. But a dogged, insightful researcher has found and properly exploited the critical records and recollections, and now has produced the long-awaited consummate authoritative report. That he also was once gracious enough in another book to credit a book of mine for sparking his original fascination with the historical specialization of ‘sleuthing Soviet space secrets’ [still a target-rich environment] is awesomely rewarding, personally. A dream come true – so let THIS report in turn serve as a shining example to ignite flames of dogged curiosity in a new generation of ‘space sleuths.’ The future of spaceflight deserves the truth about the past, and the past has taught us that we never should wholly depend on official voices to provide completely authentic narratives of past triumphs and tragedies. Without such experience-derived wisdom those who follow us may not be adequately equipped to measure up to the judgment needed to match the cosmic choices and challenges of future endeavors. Digging out these secrets and separating them from the popular but misdirecting fantasies and legends is not mere idle curiosity, it is the key to enabling the spaceflight future we all dream of. Help lay such a firm foundation, and even if you never leave the ground yourself, you will strengthen the launching pad of those that will. One of the most shocking revelations in the book is that the flaw in the parachute system was probably due to fabrication and installation errors in the space craft that had been duplicated in the second vehicle, Soyuz-2, that was to dock to Soyuz-1. Had the multiple unrelated failures on Soyuz-1 =NOT= caused the cancellation of Soyuz-2, it would have been launched, and BOTH crews on landing would have died. Imagine the horror of the remaining craft in orbit, with Bykovsky alone, AFTER the first had crashed, as the team had at least 24 hours to imagine what they might do to avoid the same fate -- and they couldn't.
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  145. The 'Russian female' was the radio kids' sister, it was a hoax, all historians now agree, please catch up.
    1
  146. No. It was recorded in the back room by their sister.
    1
  147. orbital s/c never 'bounce' off the atmosphere, that was a newspaper theme for reader excitement.
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  148. Evidence?
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  149. Sad you're so easily duped.
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  150. @Friday Goood -- Do you want to use your head and look at the evidence this story is bogus?
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  151. Faked by the Italians, get a clue.
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  152. There were such stories since about 1960. Often were tall tales to impress girlfriends and newbies.
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  153. The prank was by the brothers themselves, and THEIR Russian-speaking sister.
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  154. Plenty of reliable research has dispelled the wonders and doubts -- no secret space fatalities, and Gagarin was first in space.
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  155. Foreign space historians also say she didn't exist. The Italian kids were faking, it was their own sister mumbling in Russian.
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  156. Why are you so gullible to long-debunked hoaxes?
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  157. Also could have been an out-and-out forgery. Air-to-ground comm from a thousand miles away seems pretty unlikely.
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  158. Or the recording could be a total hoax, revived by unscrupulous youtube posters to dupe new generations of victims.
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  159. Scariest of all is the possibility you are excessively gullible to internet scams. These Soviet-era rumors were debunked decades ago, modern internet scammers just revive them for a new generation of victim. Want evidence?
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  160. The Italian kids were known hoaxers, please catch up.
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  161. There's no longer ANY question among historians and investigative journalist. The Italian kids faked it, and modern internet hucksters revive the fakes for a new generation of credulous halfwits. Live with it.
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  162. The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were incorrect long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  163. Italian accent. Turned out to be the sister of the brothers.
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  164. Thank you. Can you imagine the contempt some of these deceptive programs must have for the intelligence of their target audience?
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  165.  @unknownstalker2624  -- I know that channel! I totally agree!
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  166.  @unknownstalker2624  - You might enjoy this report of mine! Soviet UFO wave! Ground observations of Soviet FOBS warhead tests in 1967: http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/soviet_1967_wave.pdf
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  167. You're mistaken.
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  168.  @grandcalifornia8410  == Any 'secret agreements' would have to be binding on civilians, non-US citizens, and private persons who purchased space tourist tickets. Any government with such power, wouldn't need to use it. It's just an imaginary gimmick to explain testimony and evidence contrary to what you like to believe because it makes you feel smarter. Here's some reports I've done on the 'secret dead cosmonaut' myth... Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  169. Lots of rumors, all turned out to be spurious.
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  170.  @agnesbutterbun - OK. Maybe I spoke too soon. One 'secret cosmonaut death' in the pre-Gagarin period WAS later confirmed, just not on any space mission. http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  171. No. It was a hoax by the brothers for fame, fortune, and hot dates from Italian starlets. Suspected from the beginning, confirmed decades ago, resurrected in the youtube age by cynical exploiters of gullible nincompoops. Want the evidence that Joe Scott is hiding from you?
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  172. proven hoax aimed at gullible simpletons, sorry!
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  173. I do.
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  174. I believe you are mistaken.
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  175. On the other hand, the transmission might be a complete hoax, exposed decades ago.
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  176. Amen, Eric. Good.
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  177. The Soviets did it to anybody they wanted forgotten.
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  178. That was the gossip at the time from people who liked to pretend they were 'in the know'. In hindsight ALL those stories were bogus. Want details?
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  179.  @Blanca12369  == "He was in a position to have access to state of the art technology." == So did I. Those stories were widespread based on ambiguous int4rcepts and gossip, and were plausible. Turned out, with more insights and resources, they proved untrue. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  180. -- You've fallen for decades-ago-debunked hoaxes, aimed at gullible kids. When you're ready to face the fact you made a major misjudgment, there's help out there to set you straight.
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  181. Precisely. Good for you.
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  182. There WERE a lot of suspicions but they all turned out to be baseless.
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  183.  @elta6241  -- Fair question. Me and my associates did extensive investigation, based on professional familiarity with spaceflight technology, the Russian language, Soviet culture, post-Soviet memoirs and interviews [and cemetery headstones] and diaries of top officials and cosmonauts, and published our results for critiques. It was immensely fun. There's a book about our efforts: http://www.jamesoberg.com/space-sleuths-book.pdf
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  184. Good advice. In this case, plenty of evidence did survive. The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were incorrect long ago, possibly a deliberate hoax. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  185. Please show some respect and at least SPELL THEIR NAMES CORRECTLY.
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  186.  @neilmacleod5371  -- Spell them right next time, no excuses. BTW, Huntsville as the von Braun team home was often deliberately misspelled without the 'T' [grin].
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  187. It's even sadder seeing so many gullible nincompoops falling for a half-century-old hoax.
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  188. He's a hero because he was first. These earlier flight claims were hoaxes by the Italian kids. Want to see the evidence?
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  189. The recordings were hoaxed, live with it.
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  190. Nyet. Never happened, it was an old hoax, long ago debunked, resurrected by internet hoaxers to sucker a new generation of gullible nitwits.
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  191. ...and totally bogus [I hope you're not disappointed].
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  192. Can you imagine the contempt some of these deceptive programs must have for the intelligence of their target audience?
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  193. This story is still bogus.
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  194. When did THAT ever happen? THESE signals were =ONLY= reported by the Italian kids.
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  195. 20 and 40, you mean.
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  196.  @sydneyleggett6276  -- IIRC the Soviets deliberately chose the ham-accessible bands to allow people worldwide to hear the signals to confirm the satellite was real.
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  197. Use your brain next time.
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  198. Your victimhood to the old hoax is heartbreaking.
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  199. == There were rumors about that in the 1960s. When checked out -- especially with access after the USSR collapsed -- ALL those stories were totally debunked. Nowadays many internet huckster sites have revived the fairy tales but conceal the research that disproved them -- spreading hoaxes aimed at gullible nincompoops. Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf Ppt http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonot.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  200. The Italian kids were faking, you're right.
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  201. Why are you so gullible to long-debunked hoaxes?
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  202. The Italian kids were faking, you're right.
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  203. You're right, here's the evidence: http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  204. What 'scientists'? Those were Italian teenagers faking it for fame, fortune, and hot dates with Italian starlets. Exposed decades ago.
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  205. Remember what, exactly? These Italian claims all turned out to be hoaxes.
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  206. Ilyushin always [correctly] insisted that story was bogus.
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  207. It was REALLY really hard to make the USSR look =WORSE= than it really was.
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  208. Have no doubt you act like a gullible simpleton.
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  209. Their sister spoke Russian, poorly.
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  210. I think you are too gullible.
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  211.  @Steger13  -- Here's the background on the italian brothers and their dubious claims http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  212. Correct diagnosis, for YEARS there wasn't enough information to tell --- but eventually, we found out these stories were all spurious.
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  213. Russia did, to the genuine casualties. These stories are old hoaxes.
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  214. They didn't have to decide to declassify -- as the USSR collapsed, starving family members of top space officials put their files and diaries and letters up for sale at Sothebys and elsewhere. We've seen all their manned spaceflight goodies, it's been amazing -- and definitive.
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  215. There were such rumors, and it took years to track them all down and debunk them, want details?
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  216. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation.
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  217. Nope, you've been duped by internet hoaxers who are contemptuous of your judgment, please get a grip.
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  218.  @no_handle_required  == Oh? What history book have you ever seen that asserts there were secret space flights before Gagarin? I'd love to see one. Show me, please.
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  219.  @hobsdigree2  -- How could NASA have pulled that off, with US schedules public, so the Soviets could just rush their own stunt and win again.
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  220.  @hobsdigree2  Easy for you to say. But NAS's astronaut program was built from the start to be open to public view, and the facilities were teeming with civilians who blabbed to family members and neighbors. Somebody would have noticed women undergoing training.
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  221.  @hobsdigree2  -- The topic is still controversial and worth discussing from all angles, thanks for your input.
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  222. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  223. Tochno tak.
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  224. Correct. It was the Italian kids' sister helping in the hoax.
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  225. No. And they were even totally out of range of other signals they claimed to have herd.
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  226. The brothers hoaxed it for fun, fame, fortune, and hot dates wit Italian starlets. Nowadays cynical internet posters revive the hoax for similar reasons.
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  227. Tochno tak, spasibo. This particular scenario was based on a deliberate publicity-seeking hoax by some Italian kids: http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  228. Also could have been an out-and-out forgery. Air-to-ground comm from a thousand miles away seems pretty unlikely.
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  229. Pretty obvious you've been scammed by the old hoax. 2007: Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  230. The disgrace is the Italian kids faking it all for fame, fortune, and hot dates with starlets.
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  231. Neither. Never happened.
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  232. Scary you're so gullible.
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  233. … or your counterfeit HS diploma.
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  234. Sensible skepticism, good for you.
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  235. Photoshop wasn't invented yet. But YES! they did airbrush a lot of photos to remove cosmonaut candidates who were expelled from the training corps. Want to see actual examples?
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  236. This particular scenario was based on a deliberate publicity-seeking hoax by some Italian kids: http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  237. In his later, unhealthy years, Cooper described how he saved the shuttle program from a lethal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens, and how he packed a travel bag for a UFO ride but it was canceled at the last minute by political difficulties on the home planet, and how he wielded a magic camera in space that took photos so sharp you could read auto license plates and he even tracked down one car owner that way who confirmed he had really been in the location Cooper had photographed. Compassionate people left him in well-deserved and honorable private retirement, but cynical exploiters flocked to him for his latest imaginary adventures to suck off his well-earned earlier heroism. I saw that claim in his book, and as with dozens of other wild stories he told in those twilight years, it has no basis in fact. Some cosmonauts died in training, in secret. None died on secret space flights. None. This has been confirmed by post-Soviet Western access to all records, diaries, and veterans. Want the details?
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  238. Too late, it's already happened.
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  239. Impossible. The kids made it up. Please catch up.
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  240. You do realize it was a publicity-seeking hoax by the Italian kids, don't you?
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  241. You have to be really gullible.
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  242. If the audio clip is a long-debunked hoax, what emotion do you think you'd feel to this site owner?
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  243. Vladimir Komarov was killed when the capsule parachute failed, there was a fire after impact. A photo of his charred corpse is on the Internet.
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  244. Could have been a hoax aimed at foolish nincompoops, too.
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  245. Happily, it was only a publicity-seeking stunt, quickly exposed and debunked. Then cynically revived by shameless internet hucksters to sucker a new generation of gullible victims.
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  246. Stop and think -- maybe it was a fake. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  247. and not secret.
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  248. More likely it's a hoax and you've been tricked.
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  249.  @jcm028  == It can happen, thanks, I'll fix it == where?
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  250. Never happened, it was an old hoax, long ago debunked, resurrected by internet hoaxers to sucker a new generation of gullible nitwits.
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  251.  @josephhoward7992  - That rings a bell, you've got MY benefit of the doubt. There were LOTS of such secret dead cosmonaut stories in those days [mid-1960s]. Those were the first subjects of my initial Soviet space history investigations: Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with... 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  252. It's even sadder seeing so many gullible nincompoops falling for a half-century-old hoax.
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  253.  @timnor4803 - Indeed, they knew how to put on a show for the press. And they inspired other SWLs to try space receptions too.
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  254.  @timnor4803  http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  255.  @timnor4803  -- Apollo contact cards. AWESOME. Make sure he's logged all that for your family. I'm busy doing that at my age, making notes and stories about my own space souvenirs.
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  256.  @timnor4803  -- Some have expired, but you can find many 'dead links' by loading them onto Google's 'wayback machine' catalog of dead URLs. Let me try and fix my page....
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  257.  @timnor4803  -- Definitely an irresistible temptation for teenaged boys.
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  258. Earth getting smaller, oxygen running out? Your imagination has long ago escaped the bounds of real space flight. Find some 14-year-old Boy Scout with the 'Space Exploration' merit badge to explain it to you.
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  259. "Their minds were systematically hypnotized and semi cleaned of many facts " --Sounds like you're speaking from personal experience. Why else would you fall for this old hoax so easily?
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  260. You're referring to the 'Nedelin disaster' of October 1960, a military missile explosion that had nothing at all to do with their moon program. Pretty horrible though, and covered up for many years, as you say.
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  261.  @sunrisings292  - they are very interesting and i look forward to where investigations will lead!! stay tuned!
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  262. Old hoaxes long debunked, reborn for a new generation of judgment-deficient nitwits.
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  263. Spot on. It probably was the boy's sister reading a script. They faked a lot -- maybe even all -- their famous 'intercepts', but in a few years all the real space historians realized it.
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  264. Those spurious stories have lately gotten a new lease on life from internet scammers exploiting a new generation of credulous nitwits. Decades ago it was an unsolved mystery. In hindsight, it was a stupid hoax for fame, fortune, and hot dates with Italian starlets. Today it is a nitwit-aimed internet scam. The Kettering Group publicized the new cosmodrome in 1966 by using unclassified tracking data mailed out by NORAD, which knew about the base for YEARS.
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  265. She' was the sister of the Italian kids who were faking it. Why are you so pitifully gullible?
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  266. They faked it. There were rumors about secret Soviet space flights [and fatalities] in the 1960s. When checked out -- especially with access after the USSR collapsed -- ALL those stories were totally debunked [the Bondarenko fire in March 1961 immediately gave rise to misinterpretations it was on a secret launch]. Nowadays many internet huckster sites have revived the fairy tales but conceal the research that disproved them -- spreading hoaxes aimed at gullible nincompoops. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf
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  267. That's the Ilyushin myth, it started in the 1960s from some genuine misunderstandings, but was bogus. Today's Internet scammers are dusting off all the old long-debunked 'spaceflight legends' to scam new generations of gullible victims. The Italian kids faked it for fame, fortune, and hot dates with starlets. Some cosmonauts dies in training, in secret. None died on secret space flights. None. This has been confirmed by post-Soviet Western access to all records, diaries, and veterans. Want the details?
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  268. Neither. The story is fake.
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  269.  @ronsindric4241  == How come this site gets so many hits? Where is it linked from?
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  270. I think you are foolish to be so easily duped by internet strangers. Want to see the evidence these are fake?
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  271. Bingo.
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  272.  @kristinahoerler  - Sister of the Italian kids promoting faked space recordings.
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  273.  @bardistass  -- Could be. Let's try to find out which it is. Which stories about secret recordings of dying cosmonauts do you find most intriguing?
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  274.  @bardistass  -- Once and awhile you also meet people with deep backgrounds in the relevant technical fields, who write about these topics for the public, and want to find better ways of expressing and explaining their own evidence, and get enthusiastic disagreements from people of opposing views, so as to modify their own as needed, and better describe them. They produce and post for discussion reports such as these: "Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia radio-eavesdropping brothers any more" http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  275.  @bardistass  -- suit yourself. Knee-jerk ego-defense is strongest among those with the poorest judgment. When you want to confront counter-arguments like a grown-up, drop me a line.
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  276.  Rios Salvajes  [chuckle] Thanks. You want to see fireworks, drop in on some other youtube sites promoting this crap and post my links, see the firestorm of outrage of people whose egos are in full defense mode against the notion they were eager victims of long-ago-exposed scam. . [grin]
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  277.  Rios Salvajes  -- I get lot of help, and alert warnings, from friends old and new, known and unknown.....
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  278. Tragic loss of innocence as you get duped so easily.
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  279. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  280. The signals were pretty much all hoaxes by the Italian kids.
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  281. Where can we see that report?
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  282. Greed and malice, probably.
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  283. It was the Italian kids' sister helping in the hoax.
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  284. And couldn't you just be a careless victim of an old, old hoax?
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  285. Old rumors, debunked decades ago. Please don't trust internet myth-mongers.
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  286. Other SWLs would also have heard it. Face it -- the audio was a hoax.
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  287. Another possibility is it was a hoax and you're the dupe.
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  288. Exactly, after USSR collapsed. spaceflight artifacts/documents were sold by everybody.
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  289. Your ALLCAPS key is stuck.
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  290. 'Laika' MEANS 'barking' in Russian.
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  291. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation.
    1
  292. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  293. We should dismiss it as a fake for far better reasons.
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  294. Fake.
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  295. Please try to catch up with the debate: 2007: Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more //www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  296. Is illusion, actually.
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  297. Big 'if'.....
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  298. It was the Italian kids' sister helping in the hoax.
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  299. You do realize it was a publicity-seeking hoax by the Italian kids, don't you?
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  300. "since that voice on your recording is definately a woman in distress i myself do not think there's much doubt about that - the question is WHAT WAS IT'S CIRCUMSTANCES. " == Thoughtful comments, but you might better check your assumptions since the source of the recording is universally considered bogus by spaceflight historians. And the Soviets flew women occasionally but only for specific propaganda stunts to impress gullible westerners…. These are wonderful topics both for speculation AND for genuine citizen-researcher investigations.
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  301. Old hoax, debunked decades ago.
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  302.  @fatbuddycat  - [grin] Always ask, 'cui bono'. That's a good start for ANY source [including me].
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  303.  @fatbuddycat  -- How come this site gets so many hits? Where is it linked from?
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  304. Another possibility is it was a hoax and you're the dupe.
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  305.  @Papershields001 -- Fair enough. Fortunately we didn't have to trust Khrushchev or the CPSU, we had access to the personal papers of top officials such as Mishin and Kamanin when their families, bankrupt and starving in the post-USSR mid-1990s, sold them via Sotheby's for survival funding.
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  306.  @Papershields001  -- "His story and the decades upon decades the Soviets tried to hide it l".... But it's NOT 'HIS story', it a story ABOUT him that sprang up from the swamp of Moscow rumors of that era. As more and more photographic and cine records came out, it was a laborious but straightforward process to identify all he original 20 space trainees, spot the ones who dropped out [and why], and where their images had been erased from released propaganda photos. There was no ROOM for a 21st trainee like Ilyushin or anyone else. See http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf
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  307.  @Papershields001  -- Nobody working deeply with Soviet-era sources has any right to be confident about anything. Everybody's taken their turn at guessing wrong. There are still discussion groups about historical mysteries, on the internet, seems like you'd be a good recruit to pitch into the pot.
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  308.  @Papershields001  -- Here's where it started: http://www.jamesoberg.com/space-sleuths-book.pdf The old guys are dying off. Your kind of passion is needed.
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  309. New gullible victims to this old hoax keep showing off their 'fake insight' all over the internet. How old are you?
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  310.  @wsbill14224  == ""We may never know"" == Don't be so pessimistic, learn to use your brain. The Ilyushin story was fabricated from the start and is reborn in the internet age by cynical hucksters relying on a new generation of gullible nitwits eager to fall for the latest faked 'secrets'. .. and 'taught' [I use the word loosely] in schools that promote the idea that if anybody's feeling are hurt by being wrong [like in math], the universe should accommodate an infinite number of conflicting realities, one or more per person, each one who can always feel 'right'.
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  311. Debunked in the last century, please catch up.
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  312. We now know. There actually weren't any. Please don't be disappointed.
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  313.  @MrJdsenior  [grin] Free expertise is worth every kopeck you pay for it.
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  314.  @MrJdsenior  -- You might still find this worth the read: http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf
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  315. Another possibility is it was a hoax and you're the dupe.
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  316. Thoughtful response, thanks. After Soviet collapse, with the space industry in ruins and veterans starving, they came forward to sell everything -- artifacts, documents, diaries, all the previously hidden stuff. ALL of it -- Sotheby's even had two big auctions of space hardware. Everybody wanted to sell their stories, to save their families from starvation or medical crises. Private historians got to go to places and see hardware and read logbooks once hidden for the entire duration of the USSR -- which collapsed in 1990. I was there. http://www.jamesoberg.com/space-sleuths-book.pdf
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  317. Spasibo. Sovsem pravilno.
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  318. I posted links a year ago presenting the evidence these recordings were hoaxed, and were debunked decades ago. Scan down this comment thread for my name.
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  319. It's even possible you're a nitwit falling for a long-debunked hoax.
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  320. It seems you are gullible nincompoop for Internet hoaxes.
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  321. Hoax, indeed. the italian brothers and their dubious claims http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  322. Also fake, aimed at credulous nitwits. Bulls-eye!!
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  323. The tapes were exposed as a hoax fifty years ago. Want the evidence?
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  324. It's always possible, but THESE stories were contrived stunts by the Italian kids, from the start.
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  325. Nasty hoax, though.
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  326. A hoax by the brothers for fame, fortune, and hot dates from Italian starlets. Suspected from the beginning, confirmed decades ago, resurrected in the youtube age by cynical exploiters of gullible nincompoops. Want the evidence that Joe Scott is hiding from you?
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  327. Thanks for the insightful observations. There were rumors about secret Soviet space flights [and fatalities] in the 1960s. When checked out -- especially with access after the USSR collapsed -- ALL those stories were totally debunked [the Bondarenko fire in March 1961 immediately gave rise to misinterpretations it was on a secret launch]. Nowadays many internet huckster sites have revived the fairy tales but conceal the research that disproved them -- spreading hoaxes aimed at gullible nincompoops. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf
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  328. Amen.
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  329. Spot on. Historians recognized it as a hoax in the last century. The Internet is the 'worldwide web of lies.
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  330. They were quickly exposed as hoaxers.
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  331. I know who you mean. Please tell more. kosmograd@yahoo.com
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  332. Where is this hoax video linked from, that it got a million victims in half a year?
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  333.  @Airwave2k2  -- The 'secret Soviet space deaths' all turned out to be myths, but it took awhile to confirm that.
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  334. Thanks for the account, and for your father's service. About when was this supposed to have happened? Multiple cosmonauts? There were LOTS of such stories in those days [mid-1960s]. Those were the first subjects of my initial Soviet space history investigations: Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with... 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  335. Delusional, you need to find some 14-yr-old Boy Scout with the 'Space Exploration' merit badge to explain it to you.
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  336. It's upsetting how easy a mark you are for internet hoaxes.
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  337.  @OzymandiasWasRight  -- Minor hiccup, it just always seems wasteful to see undeserved, useless compassion for non-existent suffering.
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  338. spasibo.
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  339. What if it's a clumsy hoax and you're too gullible?
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  340.  @johannesswillery7855  This audio is still a hoax.
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  341. None of those erased guys ever flew into space. We had great fun tracking them down.
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  342. Never happened, it was an old hoax, long ago debunked, resurrected by internet hoaxers to sucker a new generation of gullible nitwits.
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  343. Total hoax.
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  344. proven hoax aimed at gullible simpletons, sorry!
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  345. Amen!!
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  346. Your going-in instinct is entirely justified. But In THIS specific case, the stories were exposed decades ago as a hoax, and the current postings are by cynical hucksters out to dupe a new generation of naïve victims.
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  347. They tried. There were rumors about that in the 1960s. When checked out -- especially with access after the USSR collapsed -- ALL those stories were totally debunked. Nowadays many internet huckster sites have revived the fairy tales but conceal the research that disproved them -- spreading hoaxes aimed at gullible nincompoops. Finding deleted cosmonauts [illustrated chapter] http://www.jamesoberg.com/vanishing_cosmonauts_with_photos.pdf Ppt http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonot.pdf 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  348. Right, from their sister's bedroom right next door. http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  349. Quick? Years of research proved these stories fakes. Want to see the evidence?
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  350. Correct. It was the Italian kids' sister helping in the hoax.
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  351. There's a real possibility this is a hoax debunked in the last century, and you need to get a clue.
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  352. Thank you for your service as family members of a service member, they also served. These were real rumors way back then but turned out to be misinterpretations and hoaxes. Want the details?
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  353. That was Komarov in 1967, fully announced when it happened.
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  354. That's the brothers' own version. NASA said they'd never met them. The antenna-measurement fairy tale relied on a splashdown photo of an antenna that only deployed after the parachute opened. You've been scammed.
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  355. It's clear you're hopelessly gullible. Scary how easy kids today can be duped by internet resurrection of long-debunked hoaxes.
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  356. Face it -- the audio was a hoax.
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  357.  @ronhaworth5808  "They didn't announce Gagarin's flight until after it happened and he was safely back on the ground." == Nope. It was announced while he was still in flight. There was a rush to get the TASS report out to avoid exactly the appropriate suspicion you mention. Certainly there were secret failures, but the country was full of wild rumors, too, and overseas satellite watchers could get some idea [sometimes very wrong ideas] of stuff once it got into orbit. But all that stuff came out post-Soviet collapse, and there weren't any undisclosed spaceflight deaths, not one.
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  358.  @ronhaworth5808  -- Thanks for your note and your interest, it was a fascinating time to try to figure stuff out in all the shadows and gossip. Some of the same techniques are in use today to figure out China or SpaceX secrets. http://www.jamesoberg.com/space-sleuths-book.pdf
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  359.  @gaborrajnai7914  -- Good point. SOME space-related disasters never leaked, for decades. There WAS a launch pad disaster at the Plesetsk cosmodrome in 1980 that killed fifty workers that was successfully kept secret for decades.
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  360. Is that me [shuffles feet modestly]… [grin]??
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  361. Or the recording could be a total hoax, revived by unscrupulous youtube posters to dupe new generations of victims.
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  362. Seriously, those old stories were debunked in the last century. Please catch up.
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  363. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  364. In your dreams.
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  365. Russ, thanks for your insights. It's an old hoax by the Italian kids and their sister. Want evidence?
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  366. Kinda scary and sad how gullible kids are these days.
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  367. Faking it was EASY with credulous victims like you.
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  368. No, there aren't, and THIS isn't, either.
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  369. In general true -- but the liars this time were the Italian kids.
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  370. The Italian kids lied.
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  371. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence.
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  372. The kids lied, and this website lied.
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  373. What is it with you, a science fiction and fantasy buff?
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  374.  @CloneDaddy  -- No pardon needed, I was teasing that the stories were fables, not factual. They were debunked decades ago but keep being used on the internet to attract the kinds of viewers the commercial advertisers prefer, gullible eager-believers who can't do independent research themselves.
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  375. You do realize the 'dying woman' was a publicity-seeking hoax by the Italian kids, don't you? Want evidence?
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  376. The Italian kids were faking, it was their own sister mumbling in Russian.
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  377. Historians recognized it as a hoax in the last century. The Internet is the 'worldwide web of lies.
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  378. Amen, bro!
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  379. Poor management creates bad results. Fatality RATES are about the same.
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  380. Sorry you fell for the hoax.
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  381. Horrifying how gullible you are.
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  382. Old hoax, debunked decades ago, recycled by unscrupulous internet hucksters.
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  383. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  384. True, in general. This case - the recordings were judged to be hoaxes many, many years ago.
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  385. Fun phony, actually.
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  386. The boys were SWLs -- shortwave listeners -- but not 'hams' [not licensed to transmit]. and they did hoax these recordings. But Gagarin was first, and the other stories turned out to be myths as well. Very confusing -- and EXCITING -- times, as I recall! www.jamesoberg.com
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  387. Thanks for that reference. Kaminski denies it, the brothers probably made that up like all their other stories. Nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf
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  388. Russians didn't try until June 1963, and succeeded -- Seagull.
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  389. Why nobody believes the Judica-Cordiglia brothers any more http://www.jamesoberg.com/judica-cordiglia.pdf and http://www.jamesoberg.com/udica-cordiglia-2.pdf The serious historians of space flight concluded that the boys were faking it long ago. It is a pity that modern internet authors revive the nonsense, in order to trick a new generation. Here is the evidence. 1975 http://www.jamesoberg.com/phantoms.html 1988 http://www.jamesoberg.com/usd10.html
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  390. Those spurious stories have lately gotten a new lease on life from internet scammers exploiting a new generation of credulous nitwits. Decades ago it was an unsolved mystery. In hindsight, it was a stupid hoax for fame, fortune, and hot dates with Italian starlets. Today it is a nitwit-aimed internet scam.
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  391. It was plausible in those days, and there were lots of rumors of secret space deaths. As it turned out, none actually happened. Want the details?
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  392. Why are you so gullible to long-debunked hoaxes?
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  393. And you =BELIEVED= it? How old are you?
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  394.  @LBCB94025  == Wish I was!! [grin]
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  395. Any reputable source? How would it be detected that far out? And what kind of booster did they have in that era to even get it there?
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  396.  @LBCB94025  == Every variation ought to be considered., for sure. It was an amazing time and nobody seemed to have a clear picture. Hindsight -- and disclosure of secret Soviet records - cleared up a lot after the USSR collapsed. I go to hold in my hands the personal diaries of top Soviet space officials whose families later had to sell them to Western auction houses, to earn enough money to survive. Me at Sotheby's with secret diaries: http://www.jamesoberg.com/image/jim-mishin-diaries_thumb.jpg
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  397.  @LBCB94025  == That would be impressive evidence. But are you sure that some anonymous blogger just didn't make it up? L1 isn't a stable point, after all.
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  398.  @LBCB94025  == Thanks -- I get a lot of helpful suggestions from strangers out there... www.jamesoberg.com Current interest: I've found that most people get their impressions of what a rocket should 'look like' from brief unrepresentative video clips, video games, and Hollywood SFX. So I've been collecting public views of rocket-related events and examining why intelligent, rational, sober people often reach unusual conclusions using time-tested earthside mental processes. I'm developing a blog on that subject, a rough draft is here, and your suggestions would be very helpful to me. https://rocketspotting.blogspot.com/2019/01/introduction.html
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