Comments by "jim oberg" (@jimoberg3326) on "The New York Times" channel.

  1.  Matshidiso Sekgampu  -- Re BEZBZ1's question, I searched this thread and couldn't find it, would you paraphrase it for me, please?
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  2.  @luv4ever101  -- You were perfectly clear. And BTW, no problem with ALL CAPS for such messages.
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  3.  @luv4ever101  -- OK.
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  4.  @jahadom1885  -- I've tried and failed. Please help me. Last July’s PBS “Chasing the Moon” three-parter had a sloppy edit job on Frank Borman comments [Apollo-8 commander, and developer of the Aerospace Research Pilot course Dwight was in] in a long quote on the moon race with Russia, interspersed with Ed Dwight's racism complaint about Chuck Yeager, making it sound like Borman was corroborating Dwight's original allegation -- if you didn't listen to the voices carefully. Here’s the program: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/chasing-moon/?fbclid=IwAR0uVOT8CLoDLl8kjWdkb6q9Nt9HZ5TSKd96Xj11HoWE_cdqImqAjyj1_7w part 1 beginning at 1:17:46. It turns out that PBS for some reason put Dwight’s own recorded accusation right in the middle of a long clip of Borman’s recollections, even though their voices sound pretty similar, enough to have misled many listeners. But PBS’s own transcript of the program [it’s online near that original URL] clearly identifies the speaker of the Yeager story as Dwight, who still remains the only source of the quote ever found so far [and only at third hand]. I don’t doubt Dwight recalled the hearsay he heard accurately, but how about the other unknown retellers of the original gossip? Such a weak provenance of the claim would be enough to keep it out of any court of law, any professional historian’s book, any principled newspaper. Here’s a screen grab of the transcript and the correct attribution to Dwight: http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/xn5dfc138b.jpg
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  5.  @slimtouche  == Proving one is innocent of a nasty accusations seems a touch 'un-American' to me, especially when the entire basis of the accusation seems to be a third-hand piece of gossip. Here's first person testimony of Yeager's racial attitudes from a black pilot who flew with him http://victoriayeager.com/emmett-hatch/
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  6.  @playablue  -- Where precisely did NASA reflect racism in its role in this affair?
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  7. No question it was an ordeal on him, but he was as much [or more] a victim of cynical White House electioneering manipulation as of non-existent ''astronaut racism'' [as Wikipedia and contemporary political exploiters called it].
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  8. "His footprints cannot be found on the moon. " -- Might the fact that he was three inches shorter than the minimum design height for Apollo LM pilots, have something to do with that?
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  9. Press reports won't tell you the full story, including potential non-racial reasons why NASA chose other pilots. But his presence in the two USAF test pilot schools in 1962-3 inspired a wave of follow-on fully-qualified black pilots such as Robert Lawrence, picked for USAF astronaut status in 1967, and others who became shuttle astronauts. Some died alongside their white colleagues on fatal missions [their names deserve special honor, too], and one became NASA Administrator who always honored Dwight for being his initial inspiration. We got where we are today because of pioneers such as Dwight, who deserve all the honor they earned.
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  10. Were there possibly legitimate reasons NASA didn't pick him?
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  11. -- So where are ANY first or second hand witnesses to this alleged comment?
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  12. What exactly do you think NASA did wrong?
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  13. We need verifiable facts first. Where are any witnesses to the reported comments by Yeager?
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  14. Precisely. He inspired a follow-generation of black astronauts who fully joined into the triumphs and tragedies of space exploration. Worth all gratitude and honor from all earthmen.
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  15. NASA didn't pick him for the 1963 astronaut class. Might there have been any non-racial reasons?
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  16. Why not start a fund to buy him a ticket on a Virgin Galactic or Bezos spaceship flight next year, or even petition them to offer him free ticket as a publicity stunt? I'm good for a $100 pledge, let's get this rolling.
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  17. What kind of Yeager stories did you hear?
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  18. Has your view of NASA's Apollo program changed?
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  19.  @TheWeirdoChannel100  - Thanks for responding. It seemed to me that the 'Dwight narrative' might reflect badly on NASA, which I don't think would be fair. While in the USAF "Aerospace Research Test Pilot" school [NOT an 'astronaut school'] Dwight came up before the NASA 'Group 3' astronaut review board in 3rdQ 1963, the top 2 students [of ~15] were picked by NASA [Dave Scott and Ted Freeman]. Dwight admits his evaluation scores weren't that high due to all the weekends away that the White House demanded he do speaking tours stead of studying / practicing. He thought he deserved a pass on his lower grades because the White House wanted him picked no matter what, for symbolic reasons, and because he insisted top-skill test pilots weren't needed anyway since the capsules were continuously remotely-controlled from Houston anyway [which wasn't actually accurate]. The class ended as scheduled in December and the students dispersed to test pilot related assignments, as always planned.
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  20. If true.
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  21. I'm curious -- how has this narrative changed your attitude toward NASA's Apollo program?
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  22. Where are any real witnesses to his alleged nasty comment? A guy says that another guy said that another guy said HE said such-and-such isn't persuasive in a court of law... or common sense, seems to me.
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  23. If you found out thisstory was deliberate manipulation of dubious rumors, not actual history, would you also be a little peeved to have been played?
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  24. Why not start a fund to buy him a ticket on a Virgin Galactic or Bezos spaceship flight next year, or even petition them to offer him free ticket as a publicity stunt? I'm good for a $100 pledge, let's get this rolling.
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  25. Dwight's presence in the test pilot school was an inspiration for many black pilots to follow his lead, and one of them, Charles Bolden, became NASA Director after serving as an astronaut. Dwight's own studies at the test pilot school in 1963 were hampered mostly by the White House demand he take three-day-weekends off traveling the country on lecture tours, which he admits was a significant distraction from his studies. He never disputed that his class standing suffered from that distraction. As for the claimed comment by Yeager, Dwight says he heard it from a fellow student who said he heard it from an instructor who said he heard it from Yeager [who denies making it] -- the kind of multi-hand hearsay that would never be allowed in court or in a principled newspaper], nobody seems to have found any first or second hand witnesses, and Dwight went on to graduate with his classmates before getting a major test pilot leadership command in his original military branch. He set a sky-high standard that motivated many follow-on black pilots to strive to excel and surpass, so we're all grateful for his service and his post-service cultural contributions.
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  26. The poor guy was thrown into the public spotlight for JFK' political advantages, and I don't doubt he was assured by the White House that they would get him selected. And he makes it clear that the publicity campaigns they scheduled him on did significantly distract from his studies and flight time [in his autobiography he blames his lower ratings on Yeager for giving permission to take most weekends off, supposedly with the malicious intent of having those trips lower his performance, which he admits they did]. He played an honorable role as an inspiration to the next generation, but that seems poor consolation for his dashed hopes
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  27. It's super sad how easily people can be tricked into believing that against all the evidence.
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  28. What did NASA do wrong, exactly?
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  29. [message garbled?]
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  30. == So why would you believe it?
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  31. Where's the evidence for NASA racial bias? While in the USAF "Aerospace Research Test Pilot" school [NOT an 'astronaut school'] Dwight came up before the NASA 'Group 3' astronaut review board in 3rdQ 1963, the top 2 students [of ~15] were picked by NASA [Dave Scott and Ted Freeman]. Dwight admits his evaluation scores weren't that high due to all the weekends away that the White House demanded he do speaking tours stead of studying / practicing. He thought he deserved a pass on his lower grades because the White House wanted him picked no matter what, for symbolic reasons, and because he insisted top-skill test pilots weren't needed anyway since the capsules were continuously remotely-controlled from Houston anyway [which wasn't actually accurate]. The class ended as scheduled in December and the students dispersed to test pilot related assignments, as always planned.
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  32. I'm curious -- how has this narrative changed your attitude toward NASA's Apollo program?
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  33.  @jaedynnnn  -- Thanks. Anything to make us all appreciate that struggle [and the participation of people of good well of all races] better seems proper to me. Exact incidents and context sometimes get garbled, but the overall picture Is still as awful as it ought to look.
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  34. According to what verifiable historical source, please? What about his height?
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  35. ​ @itsme7819  == "the source is the man speaking himself." == Not the 'source'. Dwight said he heard it from a student who said he'd heard it from an instructor who said he'd heard it from Yeager. I don't doubt Dwight's account of what he personally heard. But any court of law or ethical scholar or competent journalist wouldn't TOUCH a third-hand hearsay allegation without more direct sourcing.
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  36.  @itsme7819  -- I'm a big fan of jokes, even irreverent ones, but this narrative has encouraged more toxic inter-racial attitudes to a daunting degree so I'd rather see it treated seriously, not emotionally as the purveyors of the story clearly intend by their delivery style.
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  37.  @imblue9839  -- If you can't supply the name of a real witness to Yeager's alleged comment, just admit it, don't cover your inability to do so with personal attacks of your own. It might really undermine your credibility among readers.
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  38. You're kidding, right?
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  39. Has your view of NASA's Apollo program changed?
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  40.  @spacecatboy2962  -- How about you read what a black pilot wrote about his service with Yeager? : http://victoriayeager.com/emmett-hatch/
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  41.  @StaySqueezy12  -- OK, you're gonna judge him by the color of his skin, go right ahead. But don't forget the entire reason West Virginia is a state -- they seceded from confederate Richmond to fight on the Federal side of the Civil War.
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  42. 'Facts' aren't part of this video's message to voters.
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  43. - How? At the school, Dwight made no secret of his attitude that the President personally wanted him picked as an astronaut. On weekends when all other students were doing practice flying and studying and make-up labs, Dwight was on commercial flights all over the country giving speeches on behalf of the White House. Dwight's exact words in an interview: " [other students said to themselves] . The real deal is that that cat is gonna be the only one of us that's gonna go to the moon. If the President has his way, he's the only one of us that's gonna go! So we better be his friend.’” https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=astronaut%20ed%20dwight&epa=SEARCH_BOX
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  44.  @purplehaze2250  -- Thanks for explaining. The issue that seemed to bother Yeager was that the justifiable criteria that were performance-related were to be set aside. Dwight was caught in the middle, with White House demands for national speaking tours while he was still a Test Pilot School student., which he admits did lower his performance scores relative to the other students. And another factor -- which I think you'll notice was totally omitted in recent press coverage -- was that he happened to be three inches too short to safely fly the Apollo Lunar Module [where the crew flew it standing up while looking out a small face-level window, and used ceiling-mounted navigation instruments]. Sure, he could have used a stool, but what sort of public image would that have portrayed? Soon after he was passed over by NASA, another black pilot, Robert Lawrence, passed all the criteria and was formally selected as an astronaut for the USAF. Besides, Dwight has recently made it clear he is NOT blaming Yeager. Edward J. Dwight [March 2, 2020] == “I never accused Chuck Yeager of causing my failure to fly in space. It was the political environment of the day that transcended anything that Chuck Yeager had an impact on.” https://www.facebook.com/NPR/posts/10159027154926756 Also: Smithsonian "Black in Space" documentary, Feb 23, 2020, curator Cathleen Lewis: “We don’t know if Chuck Yeager derailed Dwight’s career. And historians searched for evidence, and haven’t found it.” https://youtu.be/I7jJ8jEh608 at time 10:58 Maybe the issue is less black-and-white than the media seems to want to make it look? PS -- I was in uniform in those days, here's me [the tall guy] with my AF officer candidate class and astronaut Gordon Cooper in Feb 1963. http://www.jamesoberg.com/image/cooper-oberg-feb-1963.jpg
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  45. Science Fiction Theatre?
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  46. Interesting idea. If Americans and Russians could end the Cold War by shaking hands in space, why can't some 'space tourist' company send Dwight and Yeager into space together, to shake hands! I'm good for $100 to 'gofundme'. If they're too old, how about they sit together to watch the launch carrying a grandkid of each.
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  47.  Dominic Thian  - He described the weekend travels in the PBS 'Chasing the Moon' program last summer. Also, the deeply-flawed NY Times story on him last July had more quotes from him. I also FOIA'ed his USAF assignments records, ask me more at kosmograd@yahoo.com
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  48. 1619 Project?
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  49. And once done a single time as an impress-the-audience stunt, not needed again. The next Russian woman was launched to upstage a planned US woman-astronaut mission, and a spacewalk. It hasn't happened again in years.
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  50. I'm curious -- how has this narrative changed your attitude toward NASA's Apollo program?
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